Category: DNA General

Posted on

The DNA of Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster Born Ontario 1861

In my previous Blog on Effie, I looked at some possible parentage. In this Blog, I’ll get into some genetic genealogy, looking at the DNA of Effie’s great-granddaughter, Jean. Jean recently uploaded her Ancestry results to Gedmatch for comparison.

Effie’s Possible Ancestry

Based on reasons I presented in my previous Blog, it seems like Effie’s grandparents should be William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Here is a pre-Effie tree that combines DNA-tested descendants of William and Margaret McMaster with an ancestry chart:

I had guessed that Effie was the daughter of Isabel McMaster who should fit in on the second row above. I note that Jean told me that she matches Keith by DNA. So that is further evidence that Jean and Effie may belong on this chart.

Here I entered Jean’s line in a different color as we are still figuring this out.

Jean and Keith

It turns out that Jean is Keith’s fourth highest DNA match and my brother Jim is Keith’s fifth highest DNA match at Gedmatch. Here is how Jean and Keith match:

The DNA doesn’t tell who the common ancestor is, but suggests that Jean and Keith have a common ancestor. On the chart above, Keith and Jean’s common ancestors are 5 generations away. Gedmatch is guessing that the common ancestor could be as close as 4 generations away. By the chart above, if I am right, Keith and Jean would be 4th cousins.

By comparison, here is where Keith and my brother Jim match:

If Jim, Keith and Jean all matched on overlapping areas, then we could say that the three triangulate and share the same common ancestors. However, the fact that they don’t all match on the same segments doesn’t mean that they don’t share common ancestors. Sounds confusing, I know.

Jean and Emily

The next person I recognize on Jean’s DNA match list is Emily. Here is how they match:

Jean and Paul

Jean has a smaller match with my cousin Paul:

 

None of my family has DNA matches with Jean but that is not unusual for a 4th cousin once removed. However, one could say that we are related in the sense that Paul and Emily are related to Jean as my siblings and I are 2nd cousins once removed to Paul and Emily.

BV – Descendant of Mary Ann McMaster

BV had uploaded her results to Gedmatch, but now I don’t see them. It could be that there was a problem with the results or a private button was turned on. I wrote a Blog about BV’s DNA here. It’s too bad that those are missing as I would have liked to have seen how Jean matched BV. Right now the only DNA uploaded to Gedmatch is from Jean and descendants of Fanny McMaster. [However, see below in the Blog.]

Jean and the X Chromosome

Jean probably would be a good X Chromosome match with others, but her X Chromosome DNA did not get uploaded to Gedmatch. The reason that she would be a good match is that the X Chromosome is never inherited by a son from the father. So for example,

The places that I have red boxes, show where there cannot be an X Chromosome passed down. This means that BV can match Jean, my sisters,  or Emily by the X Chromosome. In order to show this, we would need to get BV’s DNA back up on Gedmatch and get Jean’s X Chromosome results to Gedmatch.

Jean’s Matches with Frazers

I have a Frazer DNA project, so I’ll check some of these people to see if Jean mathes any of them. Here Jean matches Cathy:

Here is Cathy’s tree as it relates to the Frazer family:

Jean and Cathy’s common ancestors could be Frazer, Stinson, Parker, Moore, or someone not even on this chart. Cathy is on the Archibald Line of the Frazer family. The best guess for Jean’s ancestor Margaret Frazer is that Margaret is on the James Line of the Frazer family.

Jean and Jamie

I found a small match here:

Jean and the James Line of the Frazers

Here Jean matches Toni:

Here is where Toni is on the DNA/genealogy chart for the James Frazer Line:

This means that if I Margaret Frazer placed right and Toni placed right, they would be on opposite sides of the James Line Chart. That means that Toni and Jean would be about 6th cousins, or something may be wrong in the chart. The other possibility is that they match on a  different line.

Rodney and Jean’s DNA Match

Here is Rodney on the Chart:

All the same caveats are in effect for this match that were in effect for Jean’s match with Toni above.

Frank and Jean

I’m looking for trends here. So far the trend is that Jean is matching more Frazers on the James Line side as compared to the Archibald LIne.

Here Frank shows as a closer relative to descendants of Margaret Frazer based on where I have her placed in the tree.

Keith and Jean

I already mentioned Keith above.

However, above, I was thinking about the McMaster side. The assumption is that Keith and Jean match on the McMaster and Frazer sides, so we wouldn’t know which side the matches above are on.

Barbara and Jean

It’s a good thing that I went through my list twice, as I missed Barbara the first time:

Finding BV

It turns out that the Barbara above is actually the BV I was looking for. If I search for BV at Gedmatch by her kit#, Gedmatch tells me that there is no such kit. But if I put in her kit number into Gedmatch for comparison, I can find matches. This is the missing information that I was looking for.

Based on the proposed tree, BV and Jean are third cousins, once removed.  Based on Gedmatch’s best guess, BV and Jean have a common ancestor 4.4 generations away. William McMaster and Margaret McMaster are 4 generations from BV and 5 generations from Jean. That averages out to 4.5 generations. Seeing as a common ancestor would never be 4.4 generations away, that is pretty close.

Triangulation, Crossovers and Chromosome 8

If BV, Jean and Emily each matched each other on Chromosome 8, that would be a strong indication that they each received that DNA from the same ancestor. However, look at what happened. BV and Jean match each other on Chromosome 8 between positions 57M and 71.  Emily and Jean match each other between positions 71 and 104M:

This could indicate a crossover. A crossover is where the DNA we inherited from one ancestor cross over to the DNA we inherited from the spouse of that ancestor. In this case, the crossover could be between William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Our crossovers are inherited from our grandparents. So, if this is a crossover between William McMaster and Margaret Frazer it would be a crossover that came down to BV or Jean either through Elizabeth Shannon or Effie McMaster.

Here is Elizabeth:

Here is Effie:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Jean uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch for comparison. That comparison shows that she matches BV, Emily and Paul. These four descend from William McMaster and Margaret Frazer.
  • By a proposed chart, Jean would be third cousin once removed to BV. She would be fourth cousin to Keith, Emily and Paul. She would be 4th cousin once removed to me and my five siblings. Jean and my direct family do not show shared DNA, but that is not uncommon for that level of relationship. However, our family has matches to BV, Keith, Emily and Paul and the genealogical connection is more secure.
  • Jean’s X Chromosome results did not get uploaded to Gedmatch. A comparison of those results should give further evidence that Jean shares the common ancestors of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer with BV, Keith, Emily, and my direct family.
  • I was not able to triangulate Jean’s DNA matches. Triangulation would indicate a specific common ancestor. However, the fact that Jean’s matches didn’t triangulate does not mean that the proposed genealogy is wrong. I also looked at a possible crossover between DNA inherited from William McMaster and DNA inherited from Margaret Frazer.
  • In general, the DNA results support the assumption that Jean descends from William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. In order for that to be the case, Effie McMaster would have to have been the child of one of William and Margaret’s children. I had proposed Isabel as that child. However, I have no direct proof that Isabel is the child of William and Margaret and no proof that Effie is the daughter of Isabel. Having said that, there is a likelihood that Isabel could be the daughter of William and Margaret and that Effie could be Isabel’s daughter.
  • So what I am saying is that the DNA gives more evidence that William and Margaret are the grandparents of Effie, but do not supply additional evidence that Isabel is the mother of Effie. The evidence that Isabel may be the mother of Effie has to do with the fact that Isabel was in the right place at the right time and had the last name of McMaster.

 

Posted on

The Mystery of Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster Born 1861 Ontario

I recently had an email from the great-granddaughter of Effie Jean McMaster whose name was also Jean. She has been trying to find out more about her mother’s favorite grandmother. Here if Effie’s photo at age 18:

The Mystery of Effie McMaster

Effie’s great-granddaughter states:

Family oral history and limited documentation indicate that the McMaster’s immigrated to Toronto, Canada in 1845 from Sligo. My great-grandmother, Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster, b. 1861, Effingham, Ontario, Canada was born to William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. He is said to have died before she was born and that her mother, Margaret, was unable to care for her and she was “adopted” by a Susan McMaster, b. 1834, Sligo, Ireland, and her husband, John Beckett, b. 1806, Ontario, Canada. In family oral and written history, Susan and Margaret were ‘sisters’ but both belonged to the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) who referred to each other as ‘sisters’ by religious tradition, casting doubt on any biological connection.  

Then in a follow-up email:

I started my genealogy journey because I wanted to find out more about the woman my mother adored, my great-grandmother Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster. Ironically, I’ve never been able to unlock the mystery of her parentage. I have been through the Canadian Census’s, the Quaker Meeting notes, read notes in autograph books and the back of pictures and queried family members when they were alive but still no answers. The family oral history says her father, William McMaster, died before she was born in 1961 and her mother, Margaret Frazer, died when she was 16, about 1877, indicating she probably knew her mother. Effie does show up in the 1871 Census as the ‘adopted’ daughter of Susan McMaster and John Beckett but I’ve been unable to find any death certificates, gravesites or mention in church records of William McMaster/Margaret Frazer. I’ve looked at Canadian immigration records and have found a Margaret McMaster traveling with a child but it is before my g-grandmother was born. Again, dates and ages do not match.

Effie in 1871

Here is Effie in 1871:

Effie shows as adopted at age 9, but either with a line through adopted (or underlined?). She goes by the name Effie J Beckett. Her father is a miller. Also living in the house is Alfred Beckett and his family:

The location of this Census is Pelham, Ontario:

The John Beckett Household

Isabel McMaster

I assume that John’s wife Susan was a McMaster. I assume that the 40 year old single “Esibel” is Susan’s sister. That would put her birth at about 1831 in Ireland. She is likely Isabel. Effie is said to be short for Euphemia.

Here is Isabel in 1861:

Now Isabel is 35 which means she was born about 1826. Now there is also a George A McMaster living in the house. Perhaps he is a younger brother to Susan and Isabel. George appears to have been born in Canada in about 1847. John and Susan are listed as Quakers. Isabel and George however are W M which I take to be Wesleyan Methodists.

The 1851 Census didn’t come out until 1852. There, we see Isabella living with Mary Ann McMaster Shannon in Vaughan, York County:

That puts Isabella born in 1827. A working theory is that Isabella is a daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer.

A Clue With George McMaster?

A search for George brings up this birth in the Wesleyan Methodist Baptism Register:

This is where you need to read the fine print. The George A McMaster of the 1861 Census is very likely George Arthur McMaster, son of George and Jane McMaster from Vaughan, Ontario (where other McMaster relatives lived). This George fits in with the George from my Blog on the four McMaster sisters:

Jane McMaster was the daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. George was her youngest son with George McMaster. Susan McMaster, above was 28 in 1861, so that would mean she was born about 1833. In 1871, Susan listed her age as 36, making her a bit younger.  Now we have a few possibilities for Susan (McMaster) Beckett. Was she the daughter of Jane McMaster or Jane McMaster’s sister? Also how does Effie fit in? As George, born 1847, was the youngest son of George and Jane McMaster, he could not be the full brother of Effie who was born about 1861.

Part of the mystery of Effie is that there are lot of similarities between the family stories about her and my McMaster relatives. I mention those relatives in a Blog about four McMaster sisters and their brother. One of those sisters, Catherine McMaster lived in Burford, Ontario. Her husband, Henry Bennett was also a miller. Family lore has William McMaster and Margaret Frazer as Effie’s parents. My ancestors were also William McMaster and Margaret Frazer, though they were born much too early to be Effie’s parents. In 1852, Catherine Bennett, the miller’s wife was living with her mother Margaret Frazer McMaster who put her age at 63. That means that Margaret was probably born around 1789. The miller connection may be a coincidence, but I mention it in case it isn’t.

Summing Up the 1871 Census

We learned that Effie was living in a house where George A McMaster used to live. George was the son of George McMaster and Jane McMaster. Jane was the daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer (my ancestors). Also sharing the Beckett house with Effie was Isabel McMaster. Isabel was single and in 1852 lived in the household of Mary Ann McMaster Shannon. Mary Ann, Jane and my sister Fannie McMaster were all sisters originally from Kilmactranny Parish in the Southern part of County Sligo. Sometime between 1852 and 1861 Isabel moved from the Shannon household to the Beckett household. We can deduce that Effie was not a full sibling of George Arthur McMaster as George was the last child of George and Jane McMaster.

Effie in Antioch, California

In 1880, the Census shows that the Beckett family had moved to California:

Here Effie is shown as a niece. That would normally mean the daughter of a brother or sister of the John or Susan. The birthplace of Effie’s parents is interesting:

This has Effie’s father born in Ontario and mother born in Ireland. That brings up the possibility that Effie’s mother may have been a McMaster. If that is the case, then her birth name may not have been McMaster. My reasoning goes like this: Jean has the McMaster family immigrating to Canada in 1845. My previous guess was 1844, so pretty close. Effie’s father could not be from the McMaster family that came to Canada in 1844 if he was born in Ontario 1841 or earlier. I’m guessing that if Effie was born in 1861, then her father should have been at least 20 in 1861. That means that if the 1880 California Census is correct, then Effie’s mother would more likely be a McMaster. A scenario would be that Effie’s mother is a McMaster born in Ireland. She comes to Canada and marries and has Effie. For some reason, possibly the death of both parents or the remarriage of one of the parents, she comes to live with the Beckett family.

Susan Beckett

One question is whether Susan Beckett is the same as Susan McMaster, daughter of George McMaster and Jane McMaster. If this were the case, that would mean that George Arthur McMaster would be Susan’s brother and it would make sense perhaps that he would live with her for a while.

I don’t have much information on Susan McMaster in my tree. I just have that she was born in Dromore, Sligo in 1841. I’m not sure where I got this information. It may actually not be right. Jean has that Susan Beckett was 19 in the 1851 Census:

The 1951 census wasn’t taken until 1852. So that would put this Susan Beckett’s birth at about 1833. This seems too early for her to be Susan McMaster, daughter of George and Jane McMaster. I have that George McMaster was born around 1820 and married Jane McMaster in 1839. Here is Jean’s photo of Susan McMaster Beckett:

Was Susan Beckett the Daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer?

Margaret Frazer McMaster was born about 1789. That means that in 1834, she would have been 45. This is not an impossible age to have a baby. Here are the known children I have of Margaret Frazer McMaster:

Jean asked me if any of her photos looked like any of my photos. I don’t have a photo of Fanny, my ancestor. Here is Jane in the middle of the photo:

Susan McMaster Beckett (from Jean):

I’m not good at comparing photos.

Under this scenario, if Susan was the younger sister of Jane McMaster Thompson, then George Arthur McMaster would be her nephew. My working theory is that Isabel McMaster is one of Jane’s sisters. That would make her Susan’s sister also. That doesn’t directly help us figure out who Effie was but it helps define who she may have been related to.

More On Effie

Effie was born in 1861 according to Jean. That means that she could not have been the daughter of Margaret Frazer McMaster who was born about 1789. Margaret would have been alive at Effie’s birth but would have been about 72 years old. Let’s assume that Susan McMaster was the Aunt of Effie. That would mean that Effie would be the daughter of one of Susan’s siblings. I’ll go through those quickly:

  • Jane McMaster b. 1816 – She had two families. The first by George McMaster. When she married her second Thompson husband, the children of the first marriage were sent out to different families. It is unlikely that Effie was a Thompson as that family seemed to stay together.
  • Mary Ann McMaster b. 1820 – She married in 1849 and had two children around 1864. She was taking in other family earlier. I don’t see any reason why she would give her daughter to a sister.
  • James McMaster b. 1822 – James was living in Michigan in 1861. I don’t see any reason why he would give a daughter to a sister in Canada.
  • Catherine McMaster b. 1827 – She was living in Wisconsin in 1861. I don’t see any reason why she would give a daughter to a sister in Canada.
  • Fanny McMaster b. 1829 – She is my ancestor and stayed in County Sligo. The records of baptisms were fairly good at this time. If Effie was a daughter of Fanny, I would probably already know that.

Any other candidates for parents of Effie?

  •  Isabel McMaster b. about 1827 – She would have been about 35 when Effie was born. Isabel was single  in 1861. If Isabel was Effie’s mother, she was either a single mother or got married quickly and had a baby the same year. However, in the 1871 Census, Isabel is not listed as married or widowed.
  • John McMaster b. about 1841 – I mention John in my previous Blog. He was living in the household of Mary Ann McMaster Shannon in 1852 along with Isabel. I don’t know much about this John. If he was Effie’s father, he would have been about 20 at the time of her birth. Also if the 1880 Census is correct, Effie’s father was born in Ontario. According to the 1851 Census, this John was born in Ireland.
  • Other – There may have been other descendants of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer living in Ontario that I don’t know about.

Based on the above, it appears that Isabel would be the best known candidate to be Effie’s mother.  That choice is followed by ‘other’. In fact, take another look at the 1871 Census:

Effie is listed directly under “Esibel”. Sometimes in a Census, this could indicate that Effie may be the child of the person directly above. It would be interesting to find out what happened to Isabel McMaster whether or not she was Effie’s mother. I think that if Isabel was Effie’s mother, it would answer more questions than it would raise. For example, if Isabel was Effie’s mother, then it is improbably that would become the family story. There would be another more palatable story made up. In this case, it appears that the story of  Effie’s parentage was borrowed from her Aunt’s parentage.

Based on Ontario Quaker records provided by Jean, the following six Becketts left the area by January 1, 1879:

One interesting point in the above minutes is that there is no mention of Effie. Why would Alfred’s children be mention and there be no mention of Effie? In addition, Alfred has another daughter Ruth who isn’t mentioned in the minutes.

Here is Alfred’s family in 1880:

Alfred continued to live next to his brother John in California.

An obituary for Alfred indicates that he was married to Mercy Ward in 1857:

Jean’s DNA

Jean doesn’t match me or my four siblings who have tested at AncestryDNA. If she uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch, she may see more DNA connections with other McMaster/Frazer descendants who tested at different companies. Jean tells me she matches Keith by DNA. I match Keith also and wrote a Blog about that match here.

I show as a 3rd cousin, once removed to Keith. Our common ancestor is Fanny McMaster. Of course, this gets confusing as Fanny married a McMaster. Assuming that Isabel is the mother of Effie and that Isabel is the sister of Fanny and Susan, one may see how Jean would be a DNA match to Keith. However, that is a lot of assuming.

Summary

  • I first made a connection with George A McMaster who was living in the household of Susan Beckett in 1861. I further identified him as the son of George McMaster and Jane McMaster born in Vaughan, Ontario in 1847. Jane McMaster was the daughter of my ancestors William McMaster and Margaret Frazer born around 1789.
  • From there, I made an assumption that Susan Beckett was the sister of Jane McMaster. I note that Jane also had her daughter Anna living with Jane’s sister Catherine McMaster Bennett based on the 1860 Census. Apparently the children of Jane’s first marriage were not welcomed by her second husband, so they were sent out to Jane’s sisters.
  • I then looked at possible McMaster parents for Effie Jean Beckett. By the process of elimination and based on the 1871 Census, it seemed like Isabel McMaster could be a candidate to be Effie’s mother. Isabel was in the right place at the right age.
  • If Jean uploads her AncestryDNA results to Gedmatch, it would be possible to check other matches that would give more evidence to support or detract from the Isabel McMaster theory.

 

Posted on

Frazer YDNA STRs Compared

Blaine Bettinger recently has started a project comparing STR differences to known relationships. It turns out in our Frazers of Roscommon DNA Project, we have four people who have tested where we know their relationships. Here are those relationships:

Rick has tested 67 STRs and Paul, Rodney and Jonathan have tested for the BigY 500. Here is how the numbers look:

Generally, what we see is that going from top to bottom, the further out the relationship is, the more differences there are in the STRs. The numbers between 0-5 above are the genetic differences. Then as the test gets higher there should be more differences going from left to right as more STRs are being tested.

Paul’s Odd Results

However, Paul’s number goes down when he is compared to Jonathan between the 111 STR test and the BigY 500 test. Why is that? My assumption is that the Big Y test missed one of the STRs tested in the 111 STR test. It should be possible to find this STR looking at the results.

DYS710

Checking Paul’s result, he has a different result from Rodney and Jonathan for marker DYS710. DYS710 is the first marker tested in the 111 STR test. Paul has 34 and Rodney and Jonathan have 33.

Here is Paul’s BigY STR result for DYS710:

Here is Jonathan’s result:

So that is not the answer. I can’t explain how FTDNA came up with a lower genetic distance for the BigY 500 STR results.

A Frazer STR Tree

Over a year ago, I came up with this tree:

This shows the genetic differences. It basically shows that there is a difference of three between the two Frazer lines of Archibald and James. In general, the two lines differ over DYS391 and CDY. At some point between Archibald Frazer of 1720 and James Frazer of 1804, there were two mutations that defined the Archibald Line from the original ancestral Frazer DNA. Then under the James branch of 1804, there are two branches. Rick’s branch is defined by DYS444 and Paul’s branch is defined by DYS576 being 19. However, we don’t know when these mutations occured. For Rick’s branch it could be anyone starting at Richard Patterson Frazer down to Rick. For Paul’s branch it could be anyone between Paul and George Frazer.

An Updated Frazer STR Tree with DYS710

However, the above Frazer STR tree doesn’t explain all the differences. Paul and Rodney have a difference of 5 STRs at 111 markers. I need to add in DYS710. Recall that Paul had a value of 34 for DYS710 and Rodney and Jonatham had 33. But which is ancestral? Or which came first?

The last time I looked for ancestral STRs, I looked at the Frazers more distant relatives: the Grants and Stuarts:

Note that their SNP is R-YP6488. FTDNA now has a block tree:

This block tree was taken from Jonathan’s perspective. However, it shows that R-YP6488 represented by matches with Grant and Stuart is an older SNP. Hayes is from an even older group represented by SNP R-YP6479. I had originally thought that 33 was the older STR for DYS710 but Stuart has a value of 34. Hayes would make a good tie-breaker but he only tested out to 67 STRs.

Checking YFull

Perhaps Hayes has uploaded his results to YFull.

Under Paul’s distant STR matches I see someone who shows as R-YP6479. This is likely Hayes. However, it doesn’t tell me what his value was for DYS710.

Back to the Updated Frazer STR Tree

Assuming that there were no parallel mutations, I’ll try this:

This shows a value of 34 for DYS710 as ancestral. Then on the James line, somewhere between James and Thomas Henry Frazer DYS710 changed from 34 to 33. That means that at least the Thomas Henry Frazer branch is characterized by a value of 33 for for DYS710.

In order to check my tree, I look at Paul and Rodney:

They have a Genetic DIstance (GD) of 5 at 111 STRs. Looking at the tree, we see that the STR differences add up to 5.

  • The Archibald Line has 381 = 11 and CDY = 35-40
  • The George McMaster branch has 576 = 19
  • The James Line has DYS710 = 33
  • The William Frazer branch has 552 = 24

The Mystery of Paul and Jonathan Solved

I posted my question to the Genetic Genealogy – Tips & Techniques Facebook Page. Skip tells me that the 3 of 425 differences are additional differences. That adds up to 7 of 536 STRs. That leads to this observation. Rodney and Jonathan have a GD of 2 of 427. Paul has a GD o f 3 of 425 with Jonathan and 5 of 415 with Rodney. That seems to indicate, if my logic is right, that the extra two mutations are on Rodney’s side.

A BIgY 500 Frazer STR Tree

This leads to another change in the Frazer STR tree. In order to find the GDs between Rodney and Jonathan, I downloaded all the results. These appear to be the two extra differences:

These were on Lines 425 and 475 of my Excel Spreadsheet. This shows that the mutations belong to Rodney. The mismatch column was just to point out any differences between Jonathan’s and Rodney’s STR results.

Here I ran out of room to describe Rodney’s branch at the top of his branch, so the extra descriptors went on the bottom. Keep in mind that STRs can mutate up or down in number. These last two mutations that Rodney had went down in number. In fact, it appears that all the STR mutations on the James Line are going down.

Any Other STR Differences?

Yes. There are a few more differences between the Archibald and James Branches of the Frazers:

Here, Paul represents the Archibald Line and Jonathan and Rodney represent the James Line. Unfortunately, as the newer STR results are not posted on-line, I would not know how to figure out which values are ancestral and which are the newer values.

The Big Picture: SNPs and Haplogroups

The Big Picture is that our Frazers have the haplogroup of R1a:

Most Frazers in general are R1b and not even closely related by DNA. However, before Frazers became Frazers, some of our Scandinavian R1a’s made their way to Scotland and became Frazers when the R1b Frazers were also becoming Frazers.

The R1a Tree

Here is an outdated R1a Tree. It is still nice as it has images on it:

Here is another shot of our Frazer Block Tree:

The trick is connecting the two trees. The Block tree listing at the top mentions R-M198. The “picture’ tree has that at about 6,000 BC, so that is a start.

R-M417 shows as 4800 BC on the picture tree. Next is R-CTS4385:

This shows that before our Frazers were Scots, they were Germanic. Next were the L664 Group:

Our L664 ancestors entered the scene about around 3,000 BC. They still have plenty of time to make it to Scotland. They could have hopped over to England around then, but likely made their way up to Western Scandinavia first.

From there, our ancestors kept branching as families do:

That brings us down to the bottom of the picture chart. S2880. S2880 is right above R-YP432 where the Frazer Block Chart starts:

This shows flags. My interpretation is that during the time of R-YP432 our ancestors were living in Scandinavia. The flag on the right that connects to YP432 is the Swedish flag.

The YFull YTree dates YP432 at 3100 years before present.

Between looking at the Block Tree, the YTree and the R1a Administrator’s Tree, it could be that our ancestors could have made their way to Scotland around the time of Christ. At the time the Frazer Clan was formed, our ancestors were in the area of what is now Inverness, Scotland.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Getting data to a project which compares YDNA STR matches to known relationships gave me a chance to look at our Frazer YDNA STR matches.
  • This lead to a better understanding of what the BigY 500 STR results mean.
  • For the four people who have taken the YDNA test and especially the three Frazers who have taken the Big Y test, I was able to refine the YDNA differences between the different lines and branches.
  • After that I gave a rough overview of how our Frazer ancestors made their way to Scotland from Scandinavia perhaps around the time of Christ.
  • Based on the YTree and other DNA sources, our own Frazer branch of R-YP6489 began around the early 1300’s, but our common ancestor in that branch was from the early 1600’s.

 

 

Posted on

Updates to Butler YDNA

I see my last Blog on Butler YDNA was about a year ago.  A little or a lot can happen in a year. Turns out some things have happened.

Three Big Y Testers: 2 Butlers and a Batt

There are three Big Y testers that show that they have a common ancestor in the past 700 years. Here is the simplest way to show how these three are related:

Note that while Batt’s SNP is I-Y238315, I didn’t put Batt in that box. That is because Batt and Butler both descend from I-128315. In other words, Butler does not descend from Batt, but both names descend from a common ancestor. This shows that the three testers have a common ancestor who was born 700 years ago. This also shows that the two Butlers who have tested for the Big Y have a common (likely Butler) ancestor from about 225 years ago. Here is how the YTree shows it:

These are the dates that I didn’t have as of my previous Blog. Previously, we were just up to 700 years ago. This new information thanks to the new Big Y Butler tester brings us 475 years closer to the present date.

However, there is a catch to these dates.

SNPs Vs. STRs

The above trees are based on SNPs. FTDNA also tests for STRs. The STRs show that Batt is more closely related to my late father in law Richard Butler than to the other Butler. So which is right? Whenever there is a conflict between SNPs and STRs, SNPs are always right.

Here is how my father in law Richard matches Batt and the other Butler by STRs:

Based on STRs, it looks like Batt is a closer match than Butler. However, by SNPs my father in law matches Batt 700 years ago and Butler 225 years ago. This is due to the variability of STRs or back mutations. Also the Butler above could have had more STR mutations than usual and/or the 225 year estimate for common Butler ancestors could be on the low side

A New Butler STR Match

I was notified recently that there was a new Bulter 37 STR match. That is good news. Also this Butler has ancestors from County Wexford. Peter, who has been researching Butlers feels that Wexford is a likely origin for the Butlers. Here is my father in law’s match list at the 37 STR level:

The new Butler match at the top is a perfect match with my father in law at the 37 level. However, that could change as more STRs are tested. My guess is that the three Butlers on the list are I-Y128364 and the non-Butlers on the list are not. Also notice that the first two Butlers matching my father in law have Wexford roots.

Here is a partial map of Wexford:

I believe that my father in law’s family came from County Kilkenny just North of Waterford. However the distance from that area to Wexford is not far. At any rate, this new YDNA Butler match seems to suggest that a common Butler ancestor could be from Wexford.

What’s Next?

The new Butler match may want to take an Autosomal DNA test. This could be done at FTDNA or at AncestryDNA. The advantage of AncestryDNA is that they have more people who have taken that test. That means a bigger chance of finding matches. The DNA matches will be looking for genealogical connections. The new match could do further YDNA testing, but that is a bit more expensive than the autosomal DNA test.

 

 

Posted on

Penny’s Frazer ThruLines

My last Blog on Penny is here. That was prior to ThruLines. I also wrote a Blog on Penny’s sister Toni here. Toni’s DNA is not linked to her tree, so she does not have ThruLines.

Penny’s Genealogy

Penny is in red in the lower left. She descends for William Fitzgerald Frazer. This tree is based on research by Frazer researcher, Joanna.

William Fitzgerald Frazer Born 1821 Ireland

I am interested in William Fitzgerald Frazer:

Penny mentions a biography in her Ancestry Tree:

This was from An illustrated history of Sacramento County, California. Containing a history of Sacramento County from the earliest period of its occupancy to the present time published in 1890. Penny further gives this chronology for William:

This raises questions as to the mother of the first three children. Penny also mentions another daughter Angelina G Frazer as mentioned in William’s will. She is named as Angeline G Law. That gives a hint:

In 1911, Angelina is listed as Gracella. I assume that was her middle name:

This puts William Fitzgerald in Leitrim in the 1840’s. Here is another interesting record:

In this record Angelina “Gracenda” is listed as Augustine. Here is Angelina’s wedding publication from 1872 – not long after her father’s divorce:

This more specifically puts William in Drumkeerin:

That means that William Fitzgerald Frazer lived in Drumkeeran. He had Angelina Gracenda around 1843. His second daughter appears to have been Mary Ann Frazer. Penny has her born in 1844.

Mary Ann Frazer

Mary Ann married in 1864:

About a year later, these two were living in Poughkeepsie, New York:

Thomas Quinton may be William’s father. Margaret Frazier is Mary A’s sister. Poughkeepsie is on the Hudson River:

How Can the DNA Help Us?

Right now on the James side of the Frazer Tree, descendants have been placed into two main branches:

There is an Archibald Branch on the left where Penny is. There is a Michael Branch on the right. There is an Elizabeth branch in the middle also. However, her daughter Catherine Knott married Archibald believed to be the son of Michael on the right side. We can use the DNA matches to test the genealogies above. First, I try to see if the DNA supports that the people within the box on the left match each other. Then I see if they match the people in the box on the right at the appropriate levels.

Penny’s ThruLines

Penny’s first cousin level ThruLines are good:

89% of the time Penelope’s match with Pamela should be a 1st cousin once removed or similar relationship:

Penny’s ThruLines with William Fitzgerald Frazer

At Penny’s Frazer great grandparent level there are no new ThruLines. There are some at the 2nd great-grandparent level:

These matches are from the descendants of Mary Ann Frazer. I’ll start a chart for Penn y:

Penny and Frazer Third Great-grandfather ThruLines

This part goes beyond Penny’s Ancestry Tree to work that Frazer reasearcher Joanna has done:

Here there are 7 matches to Penny on the Thomas Henry Frazer Line. Joanna has that Thomas Henry Frazer was born in Drumkeerin, so there is that connection. Joanna is on the Edward F Frazer Branch. I should point out that Penny has no matches on the Edward Wynn Branch:

Edward Wynn is the brother in the middle group above.

Penny’s Distant ThruLines

When I put the common ancestor up two more generations to James Frazer born about 1720, I pick up two additional matches for Penny:

These two matches were recently added under Michael to explain DNA matches. It would make sense that Penny could match these two, as the theory is that Mary married William Frazer:

Adding Penny’s ThruLines to Madeline’s and Charlotte’s

Although Penny doesn’t share any ThruLine matches with Madeline and Charlotte, they both match some of the same matches as shown in blue below:

I think that Charlotte’s match to JS above is really Janet. The question is: if Penny, Charlotte and Madeline have many of the same ThruLines, then why doesn’t Penny match Charlotte and Madeline? I suppose there could be many explanations:

  • The common ancestor is Archibald born 1792. Charlotte and Madeline may be related on the Archibald side and Penny may be related on Archibald’s wife’s side. That would result in Penny not matching Charlotte and Madeline.
  • Another variation of that is that Archibald may have had more than one wife. Penny may descend from one wife and Charlotte and Madeline from another.
  • It may be that we have the genealogy wrong.
  • There may be other connections on collateral lines.

Adding In Joanna

If I add in Joanna to the mix, I’ll have representatives from the three brothers:

 

These are William Fitzgerald, Edward Wynn Frazer and Thomas Henry Frazer (Joanna’s great-grandfather). Here is a partial list of Joanna’s ThruLines:

I’m more interested in the matches at the third cousin level. Here we have the two brothers plus Ann. The third brother doesn’t show here as he shows at the 2nd cousin level for Joanna. For some reason, the ThruLines seemed to skip a generationbetween William Fitzgerald 1821 and Minnie Jane born 1895. I have written quite a bit about the McPartland Branch. They have the Ancestor Ann Frazer who has been difficult to place. Joanna has made a guess that she was the daughter of her 2nd great-grandfather Archibald born 1792. I have been going back and forth as to whether Ann should be under Archibald or Michael Frazer.

Another interesting point is that Edward Archibald born 1867 ended up in Poughkeepsie, NY where Mary A Frazer Quinton and Margaret Jane Frazer lived in 1855. I don’t know if this is a coincidence or not.

I see that Joanna matches WG. WG is on the Edward Wynn Branch where Madeline and Charlotte are. Joanna has a good match with WG but Madeline and Charlotte do not. This may be a coincidence, but I would keep my eye on this situation. For Charlotte and Madeline the level that they match WG indicates a second cousin once removed only <1% of the time:

I added WG into the tree here:

Joanna and James of Clerragh

I didn’t see any additional ThruLines for Joanna at her Archibald/Peyton level. However, there are some new ones at the level of James of Clerragh:

The odd thing with this ThruLine is that Archibald born 1690 who is usally the father of James of Clerragh is shown as James’ son. However, the relationship shown is correct at 2nd cousin once removed.

When I add the results in with the others, I get this:

Those are a lot of numbers to look at. Basically:

  • Penny had no ThruLine matches at her 2nd cousin level.
  • Joanna shows good match levels at the 2nd cousin level. That is, except with Chris
  • Madeline and Charlotte show poor 2nd cousin match levels. However, the matches are just with one person. Perhaps there are not many descendants on this line who have had their DNA tested.
  • At the third cousin level out of all the matches, there are no perfect scores. I am not sure why that is. If I add up all the percentages for the relationships and divide by the top percentages in the third cousin range, I get 42%. As these ThruLines are somewhat new, I don’t know how usual or unusual that is. The results seem anemic to me. It is as if Archibald Frazer had each of his sons by different wives.

Here are the rest of the results:

At the fourth cousin level, Penny has matches with the Thomas Henry Branch, but not the Edward Wynn Branch.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Looking back at my Blog on Penny’s sister Toni, it appears that Toni had better Frazer matches. However, Toni has not linked her DNA to her Ancestry Tree and therefor does not show up on ThruLines.
  • If Toni links her DNA to her Ancestry Tree, we should get a fuller picture of the situation.
  • I had fun getting a better understanding of Penny and Toni’s genealogy.
  • Perhaps as a result of Penny’s less than average matches on the Frazer side, the DNA matches looked a bit anemic.
  • However, having said that, at the third cousin level there are a lot of matches under Archibald Frazer born in 1792. However, they appear to be all less than perfect matches, with only one match that I see that is above average. That is the match between Charlotte and Gail at 97 cM.
Posted on

Bonnie’s Frazer ThruLines and An Update On Beverly’s

In this Blog I would like to look at Bonnie’s ThruLInes. Here is Bonnie on my Frazer DNA and genealogy chart:

I circled Beverly as I already looked at her ThruLines here. It took two Blogs to write about Beverly’s ThruLines. The connection of Beverly and Bonnie to Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott above is quite certain. However, one other Frazer researcher has the connection after that going up to a different Frazer couple:

Bonnie’s Frazer ThruLines

Bonnie’s ThruLines are based on her genealogy going up to Michael and Margaret Frazer. That could cause some bias toward that outcome, but we will see.

Bonnie’s ThruLines with her second cousins are not in question, but it is always good to go from the known to the unknown in genealogy:

Bonnie’s Third Cousin ThruLInes

At this level three additional people are added:

I mentioned Beverly above. Then there are two more people from the Catherine Frazer Line. Bonnie’s tree has Catherine as Catherine Peyton Frazer, but Frazer researcher Joanna points out that the Peyton is not correct as that is from a different Catherine Frazer. Someone added a photo of Catherine Frazer’s daughter Rachel Patton from NO’s ancestry:

LO and NO are from two different lines as Catherine Frazer married a Pattison (aka Patterson) who died. She then married a Patton.

Here are Bonnie’s ThruLines so far in a chart:

This means that Bonnie’s match with Gary and Judith indicate a second cousin match 62% of the time. Bonnie’s match with Beverly indicates that her 39 cM match indicates a third cousin 13% of the time. It would have been more likely for the two of them to be fourth cousins. 22% of the time a 39 cM match indicates a 4th cousin relationship. That means that they don’t have the most likely match level for third cousins, but still a likely match.

Bonnie’s Third Great-Grandparents

Here is something I had not considered:

At this point, Bonnie has another likely Frazer ancestor in Elizabeth Frazer. This makes life confusing. According to Frazer researcher Joanna, Catherine Knott was either a daughter or niece of William Knott and Elizabeth Frazer. The scenario showing in ThruLines has Catherine as a daughter. Another point is that Michael and Elizabeth Frazer were siblings. Looking at ThruLines by way of William Knott and Elizabeth Frazer do not add any more matches.

Here Bonnie has six additional matches.

Bonnie appears to have strong ties with the Patrick Henry Line of Frazers. This is good based on the fact that there are records for a both a Patrick and a Fitzgerald born to a Michael and Margaret Frazer:

14 Dec1803  b.         Patrick s. of Michael and Margaret                        Eastersnow   

16 Dec1803  bpt.      Patrick s. of Michael and Margaret                        Eastersnow                                                                    

2 Apr 1804    b.         Fitzgerald s. of Michael and Margaret                  Eastersnow   

5 Apr 1804    bpt.      Fitzgerald s. of Michael and Margaret                  Eastersnow   

Frazer researcher Michael was fortunate to find such early birth and baptismal records from Eastersnow Parish in North County Roscommon. However, it is curious as to how these two children were born less than four months apart from each other.

Mary Frazer

Mary is a new addition to the Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart. Joanna added her in to explain DNA matches to descendants of Catherine Matilda Fraser. Frazer researcher Joanna made an educated guess that Mary Frazer married William Frazer shown below:

That translates to these two ThruLine matches for Bonnie:

Bonnie’s ThruLines with James Frazer and a Surprising Match

Here are Bonnie’s ThruLines up to her 4th great-grandfather. Bonnie has five matches. The surprising one is with Brittney:

Brittney and Bonnie have a 60 cM match which is very high for a 5th cousin once removed. AncestryDNA only gives statistics up to 5th cousin. According to the ISOGG web page, 60 cM is not unheard of for fifth cousins once removed:

Here are the matches charted out:

What if Bonnie Was In the Tree of Archibald Frazer and Catherine Peyton?

I mentioned early in this Blog that at least one researcher has Archibald Frazer and Catherine Peyton as the parents of Bonnie’s ancestors Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott. It would be possible for me to test out what would happen if we put Bonnie there.

That scenario would replace Archibald born about 1792 above with Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott. The effect is that Bonnie would be more closely related to those on the Frazer/Peyton Line and further related to those on the Michael and Margaret Frazer Line. There is no need to change Bonnie’s ancestry to see what ThruLines will do. I think that this would be the result. The original analysis is first and the new one second:

It appears that Bonnie’s original genealogy has a slight edge based on the ThruLines. In the analysis above, she has four rows of green where she has the highest probability for the relationship. In the analysis below she has two. I added up the probabilities for each scenario. In the original scenario, the percentages added up to 215. In the alternate scenario, Bonnie gets a 211. There is not much difference there. This analysis quantifies my previous observations that the matches between the Archibald Line and the Michael Lines are pretty even.

Comparing Bonnie’s and Beverly’s ThruLines

Beverly and Bonnie are third cousins. I had written two Blogs on Beverly’s ThruLines, but they have since changed. Also, it appears that Beverly’s DNA may not have been attached properly. I have her mother as Edith Frazer. In the ThruLines below, Edith shows incorrectly as Beverly’s grandmother:

That means that Beverly would be a second great Aunt to Krista and Jordan rather than a 1st cousin twice removed. Also, I show Beverly’s maternal grandfather as Fitzgerald – not Alexander Frazer:

Apparently there was an Alexander with a daughter Edith but not Beverly’s Edith. Beverly’s Frazer side was from the Parry Sound area of Ontario:

For further out ThruLines, the tree corrects itself somehow. Here Fitzgerald Frazer is correctly shown as Beverly’s grandfather:

Here is my new summary for Beverly’s Frazer ThruLines:

Mollie is in a pink color. Her ThruLine has gone away since my last Blog on Beverly. This is good because I couldn’t explain how her Robert McMaster ancestor fit in. The yellow matches are new since my last Blog on Beverly’s ThruLines.

Combining Beverly’s and Bonnie’s ThruLines

A few observations:

  • Beverly has 21 Frazer ThruLines compared to Bonnie’s 14.
  • Bonnie and Beverly don’t share many ThruLine matches. I am not sure why that is or whether they should. They both share Brittney who is the most distant relative.
  • The numbers seem good for the relationships. This tells me that the DNA evidence supports the trees we have.
  • Under the Michael and Margaret Frazer common ancestors, there is a good mix of matches from their children: 8 for Patrick (who is the same as Henry Patrick); 6 for Margaret Frazer; 2 for Mary (recently added in as a hypothesis) and one for Fitzgerald.
  • I didn’t do the reverse analysis for Beverly that I did for Bonnie. That was the using the assumption that the 4th cousin matches descended from Archibald of Tullynure rather than Michael Frazer. One of the problems I find with that assumption is that it does not account well genealogically for the many DNA matches that have been considered. In other words, all these Frazer descendants came from somewhere and under the alternate assumption, it is unclear how these people would fit in.

Summary and Conclusions

  • In this Blog, I looked at Bonnie’s ThruLines.
  • Bonnie’s ThruLines support the tree we have for her descending from Michael and Margaret Frazer.
  • I did an analysis of what the DNA matches would look like if Bonnie descended from a different Frazer Line. The matches were close but not as good as for her descending from the Michael Frazer Line. Also I didn’t like the genealogy for Bonnie being in a different Frazer Line as I couldn’t see how everyone else could fit in with her being there.
  • Next, I did and update for Beverly’s ThruLines. Beverly and Bonnie are third cousins.
  • Beverly had more matches than Bonnie. Her matches were consistent with Bonnie’s.
  • It helped to combine the two results. This method should work in other lines.

 

Posted on

Tracy’s Upshall Ancestry and DNA Matches

As I go through my wife’s Aunt Esther’s DNA matches at Ancestry, I came upon Tracy.

According to AncestryDNA, Tracy and Esther could be second cousins or closer.

Tracy’s Genealogy

Here is Tracy’s Ancestry Tree:

I am interested in Tracy’s Halfyard maternal side. I built this tree:

I am interested in Margaret Jane Upshall. Perhaps she will fit into Esther’s tree. The records are not good for Harbour Buffett where many of the Upshalls lived.

Henry Upshall Born About 1841 and Catherine Dicks

Esther descends from Henry Upshall and Catherine Dicks:

Esther is a half-sister to my wife’s grandmother Florence:

This is an Upshall DNA tree. These people have had their DNA tested and match each other.

Jessie Upshall Born 1886

A while back, I came across Karen who descends from Jessie Upshall. By DNA and name it seemed like Jessie would have to be another daughter of Henry and Catherine Upshall:

Karen’s DNA matches to Esther, Joan and Elaine were perfect for her being a 1st cousin twice removed to Esther. I could see no other explanation other than Jessie Kate Upshall was a daughter of Henry Upshall. I added her to the tree even though the records were missing from Harbour Buffett due to a church fire.

Now Tracy has an Uphall great-grandmother born in 1874. Perhaps Margaret Jane Upshall could be another daughter of Henry and Catherine Upshall.

Adding Tracy to the Henry Upshall Tree

I’ll add Tracy in to see how she fits:

If my guess is right, Tracy is:

  • 1st cousin twice removed to Esther
  • 2nd cousin once removed to Joan and Elaine
  • 3rd cousin to Marie, Joanne and Karen
  • 3rd cousin, once removed to Tina

I administer the DNA for Esther, Joan, Elaine and Marie, so I can check those DNA matches.

Esther gets a low score for being a first cousin twice removed to Tracy because she matches by more DNA than expected. Based on their high DNA match, Ancestry would rather see them as 1st cousins once removed. That means that by chance Esther and Tracy share more DNA than average or it could mean that Esther and Joan share ancestries from other branches.

Karen’s Mom Shirley

Karen’s mom Shirley has also tested at Ancestry:

Shirley has perfect textbook matches to Esther, Joan, Elaine and Marie. They get the highest possible scores for these three different levels of relationships.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I think that it would be safe to add Tracy to the Henry Upshall Branch of Upshalls based on close DNA matches to Esther and her family.
  • The DNA matches between Tracy and Esther’s family are a little closer than expected. It is possible that there are other family connections further out.
  • If Tracy uploads her DNA to Gedmatch, it would be possible to do more detailed DNA analysis.
  • If Karen shares her mother’s DNA results with me, I would be able to see how closely Shirley matches Tracy. That would further solidify the Upshall Family Tree.

 

 

Posted on

Esther’s Newfoundland ThruLines at AncestryDNA

Esther is my wife’s 1/2 great Aunt and has Newfoundland Ancestry on both sides. AncestryDNA’s ThruLines takes DNA matches and matches those up with Ancestry Tree matches. Let’s take a look at Esther’s ThruLines to see what they show.

Esther’s Parents

Here are Esther’s Parents:

Here are the ThruLines for Fred Upshall:

These people are not related on the Shave side, so the relationships show correctly as half relationships. These people are my mother in law, Joan, her sister Elaine, my wife Marie and Marie’s niece Tina. These four should show up in Esther’s more distant Upshall side ThruLines.

Esther’s Grandparents

 

Very quickly, Esther is back to 1841 with her Upshall grandfather. I am more interested in the Upshall and Dicks side as that is the side where my wife and her mother are related.

Here are the Henry Upshall ThruLines:

On the right is Karen. I have written Blogs about her family. I put her great-grandmother Jessie as the daughter of Henry Upshall based on DNA evidence even though there was no genealogical evidence. This was a bit dicey, but based on the amount of DNA shared between Esther and Karen, it seems like the right thing to do. According to Ancestry DNA, that amount of shared DNA is most likely to be a 1st cousin, twice removed relationship:

Nicholas and Esther

How does Nicholas fit in? For one thing, 1st cousin four times removed goes right off the chart:

I would think that a 1st cousin four times removed would be similar to the 2nd cousin once removed. Either way, the chances of this being right are <1% according to AncestryDNA.

Nicholas’ Genealogy

Here is the expanded view of ThruLines:

One problem is that Nicholas’ parents and grandparents are shown as living, so I don’t have information on them. Nicholas’ tree is managed by Kara. She has Gladys Uppshall Knight as Nicholas’ maternal great-grandmother. From there, Stephanie’s tree kicks in with Theodore the father of Gladys.

Here is the 1935 Census for St John’s West:

The assumption is that this is the same Gladys in 1945:

Here is a replacement birth record for Malcolm:

This shows that Malcolm’s mother was a Shave. That makes it more surprising that Esther and Nicholas don’t have more matching DNA as Esther’s mother was a Shave.

Here is another after the fact record for Malcolm’s brother:

This could be William in the 1945 Census living next to his brother:

Was Alexander the Son of Henry Upshall?

I have it that way on my Ancestry Tree, but not on my Upshall Web Page. I don’t see any genealogical evidence that would put Alexander as the son of Henry Upshall. It is that way in some on-line Trees. Based on the low amount of DNA match and the shaky genealogical evidence, I would call into question this particular ThruLine at this time.

Esther’s Upshall Great-Grandparents

Here, things get more interesting as there is no known genealogical evidence for Esther’s great-grandparents. These ancestors are a best guess scenario. Here are the ThruLines for best-guess Peter Upshall:

At first look, it seems as though there are a lot of different DNA matches for these likely children of Peter Upshall.

George Upshall Branch 1829

Here, note that Pat, like Nicholas has Shave and Upshall in her ancestry. I note she also has Burton which Eshter has, so perhaps other names also. 280 cM is a huge match for a 2nd cousin twice removed:

Ancestry says that Pat and Esther look like 2nd cousins. However, that is assuming that they are not related on other lines which they are.  For comparison, I had mentioned above that Nicholas’ match to Esther should have been equivalent to a 2nd cousin once removed. Another thing I’d like to do is to see if these people have shared matches with each other. I note that Nicholas does not have a shared match with Pat. That means that he shares less than 20 cM with Pat.

Checking with Joan and Elaine

One way to check these matches is by Joan and Elaine. They are Esther’s half nieces. That means that they match on the Upshall side and not the Shave side. Here is what Joan shows:

Now the DNA matches are quite a bit different. When I look at the numbers for Joan and her sister Elaine, I get this for the proposed George Upshall Branch:

Sarah Upshall Branch 1831

Here Esther has 10 DNA matches on the Sarah Upshall Collett Branch:

Here are the results for Eshter, Joan and Elaine:

  • I added in a Maximum % column, so we could see what the highest likelihood is for the DNA match
  • Green indicates that the DNA matches got that highest mark
  • This seems to indicate that Esther does not match this Sarah Upshall Collett on other lines.
  • None of the numbers seem unreasonable. The <1% can be explained by matching on many other lines and getting too high of a match.
  • Joan and Elaine match Sarah and Esther doesn’t. That means that Florence (who is Joan and Elaine’s mother) got DNA that her sister Esther did not.
  • Esther went off the chart with the 2nd cousin 4 times removed category.
  • To do this right, I would need to check all the genealogy. I didn’t. The genealogy is likely good up to the children of Peter and Margaret Upshall and then missing.
  • All these numbers seem to confirm that the trees are likely trees.

Jane Upshall Branch

Jane appears to be well documented by DNA. Esther has 14 matches to Jane’s descendants along the Tulk Line. I have noted close matches to Tulk in the past, so this may explain those DNA matches.

Jane also has a rare Upshall birth record:

However, I find it odd that she was born in November and baptized in September. Perhaps she was born in 1838. I assume that there was only one Peter and Margaret Upshall at the time. Burin was about 90 miles away from Harbour Buffett, so I assume there was a travelling minister who performed these baptisms on 29 September 1839. I have that Jane was born in Burin which is not accurate. She was born in Garnish Gut according to this record. I’m not sure where Garnish Gut is, but I assume that it is part of or near Harbour Buffett.

An additional confusing point is that Peter was the father of Christopher Upshall also in 1833:

This means that Peter may have had a first wife Mary or the transcription may have been off. Christopher doesn’t show up on the ThruLines. I don’t see many trees for Christopher. Here is one:

This person shows Margaret as the mother and the birth at Famish Gut which perhaps makes more sense. Perhaps there were few descendants on this line.

So far the matches for the descendants of the three potential children of Peter and Margaret Upshall looks like this:

The evidence looks pretty good. I added Karen from the more recent Henry Upshall Line to show how good her numbers were.

Susan Upshall Born 1848

This Line is a little more confusing:

Roy’s grandmother is Margaret Collett. That begs the question of Elizabeth Webber. Shouldn’t she be a Collett also? Here is some information from http://www.collettfamilyhistory.net/Part-32-The-Newfoundland-Line-Rev.12.htm:

The same web page has this on Elizabeth:

According to this information, Elizabeth Webber is really Elizabeth Collett.

Here is the last of Esther’s ThruLines at this level:

This was a bit of an annoying exercise, but it does seem to verify the trees for the descendants. However, I have not tried to disprove the theory. That would take a bit of work. I do recognize interfering influences of the DNA matches through intermarriage.  I showed some of those effects by comparing Esther’s matches to her half nieces Joan and Elaine. The main interferences could be other relationships with the Dicks, Shave and Burton families. The other thing I didn’t do was to check the genealogy of each line. This would take a while to do. The last confirmation would be to check to see if each of these matches match each other. The best way to do that is with Genetic Affairs’ AutoClusters.

Esther and AutoClusters

Here is a ‘basic’ AutoCluster I ran for Esther.

Esther has all Newfoundland ancestry, so almost all her clusters match other clusters. This AutoCluster ran January 9, 2019 between the match levels of 50 and 250 cM. I checked my Chart above to see which clusters the matches were in:

It turns out that the Jane Upshall Tulk Line were all in Cluster 14. In the other Lines, there was not enough information or the matches were outside the range. However, the other two Clusters found were 8 and 11.

This means that while Esther is matching Cluster 14 by Peter and Margaret Upshall, all the 10 in my Chart are matching each other by Jane Upshall and her Tulk husband.

Esther’s ThruLines With Christopher Dicks Born 1812

Christopher was married to Elizabeth. My best guess is that she was Elizabeth Crann. Esther has 12 new DNA matches on the Christopher Dicks Line. These matches could have gotten their DNA from Christopher Dicks or from his wife Elizabeth or both.

The matches under Catherine Dicks have already been looked at. Compare this with the Gedmatch Tree I have been working on for the Dicks Family:

ThruLines has a David Branch that I don’t have and I have a Christopher Branch that Thrulines doesn’t have.

The David Dicks Branch

Here is a partial opening of that Branch:

One interesting thing here is that Frances is also related to Esther through the Jane Upshall Tulk Line:

That is because Caroline Dicks married Edwin Kingwell Tulk according to the trees at Ancestry.

Cathy in the David Dicks Branch

Here is how ThruLines shows Cathy:

I had Cathy in a different Branch. However, if the ThruLines are right and I am right, she could be in two Dicks Branches of Frances Dicks Burton and Christopher Dicks:

Here is a summary of the David Dicks Branch:

It seems like everything checks out OK. Esther was matching too high to Newf due to matches on Esther’s maternal side. Joan isn’t related to Esther on Esther’s maternal side, so that took the extra DNA out of the equation. I skipped checking Joan’s sister Elaine’s results to save time. Joan matched one person David, who didn’t match Esther.

Going Up One Generation to Christopher Dicks Born about 1784

The Dicks family was huge and then spread out from there.

Here are nine children of Christopher who have matching DNA with Esther:

  1. John Michael – before 1808 – I haven’t been following this Branch. Has some Joseph’s in this Branch
  2. Elizabeth – 1809 – Married Thomas Adams
  3. Joseph – born 1810
  4. Frances born 1811 – Married Charles Burton
  5. Christopher Born 1812 – covered in previous section
  6. Rachel born 1817 – married James Joyce
  7. James Dicks born 1830 – also has a Joseph Dicks son. I haven’t been following this Branch either.
  8. George born 1832
  9. Robert born 1824 – so should be above

I trace six children in my Dicks Gedmatch DNA project. I didn’t have John Michael, James or Joseph. Altogether, there are 77 DNA matches represented in these 8 proposed children. That would be too many matches to check for this Blog.

Joseph Dicks

Although I don’t have Joseph Dicks on my Dicks DNA Chart, I have that Esther descends from Joseph Dicks on her maternal side:

I have Joseph Dicks born at Famish Gut in 1810 to Christopher and Margaret. However, this does not appear on Esther’s ThruLines or on my own Dicks DNA Chart.

I’ll look at the genealogy behind the John Michael and James DIcks Branches as I am unfamiliar with them.

John Michael Dicks Born 1808

The ThruLines Profile for John Michael shows this:

This information is a bit sparse. It shows that John Michael would have been over 105 years old when he died.

In a previous Blog I note this Joseph:

My thought was that this was a more likely ancestor for Esther.

Joseph Dicks and Violet

After changing Esther’s Jane Ann Line, I noticed that ThruLines did have a Joseph Dicks Branch with one large match:

However, this follows from the way I had Esther’s tree. Violet has a huge match with Esther at 359 cM. Here is a much closer relationship between Violet and Esther at 2nd cousin:

My mother-in-law, Joan also has a good match with Violet:

Violet’s Tree

Now I’m suspicious that Tulk may be related to Upshall.

Upshall of Dorset ThruLines

Newfoundland is too complicated with the intermarriages and lost records. Lets go back to Dorset, England:

My current thinking is that Peter Upshall born in 1800 in Dorset was the daughter of Sarah Upshall. Sarah is shown here with three of her siblings. This Dorset, England ThruLines appears to confirm that Sarah was the sister of Joseph, George and Charles who shows a Private above. This is a chance to find out what my wife’s Upshall relatives have been up to since 1737. Judy above is probably in Australia. Margaret’s paternal grandmother was born in England and died in Rhode Island.

The Charles Upshall Branch

Ross and Peter’s parents were both from Dorset, England.

Here is one of the trees I had been working with:

For some reason I am missing the Jane Upshall/Tulk Branch. I also need to go up two levels to John Upshall.

I had previously added an additional sibling Ann Upshall due to a match with my wife’s Aunt Elaine. Due to the fact that none of Peter’s Aunts or Uncles did not live in Newfoundland, my guess is that the DNA matches represent John and Elisabeth Upshall.

Here are some potential siblings to Sarah Upshall that I took from an online Ancestry Upshall Tree:

After quite a bit of typing, I get this:

This is a small version of the Upshall DNA match tree. I didn’t add in Ann Upshall or many of the Newfoundland Upshalls.

Shared DNA Matches

When I check how Judy on the bottom left of the chart above matches Esther, I get these shared DNA matches:

Many of these shared matches are with descendants of Newfoundland Upshalls.

Elaine and Joan’s Hazelbury Bryan Thrulines

One of Elaine’s Hazelbury Bryan Thrulines is with Peter on the Charles Upshall Branch shown above. The other is with Hazel on the Joseph Branch.

It looks like Hazel’s Branch stayed in England while Judy’s branch went to Australia:

Joan also has a ThruLines match with Hazel.

More of Esther’s English Upshall Shared DNA Matches

Elaine and Margaret from the George Upshall Branch have a shared DNA match named Trenton. Trenton has a good sized tree:

Trenton’s father’s mother’s father was Peter Upshall Boutcher. This sounds suspicious. There must be an Upshall in Peter’s ancestry. The Collett Genealogy that I referred to above is very helpful:

Here is one relationship that ThruLines didn’t figure out, but it helped in conjunction with Shared DNA Matches:

Putting the Upshall’s Together

Here I added a representative person from the Upshall/Tulk Branch:

Based on the ThruLines there are over 10 matches each on the Sarah Upshall Collett and Jane Upshall Tulk Branches. So the above tree is just a skeleton.

One Last Shared Match Between Esther and Judy

I don’t want to leave too much low hanging fruit. AU is a shared match with Dorset descendant Judy and Esther. Here is his three person tree and his DNA match:

AU and Esther have a DNA match of 69 cM. Here is Jacob in 1935 in Harbour Buffett:

Edward and Martha married in 1916:

Unfortunately, I soon got stuck at the level of Edward Upshall:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Going Through many of Esther’s ThruLines was a large undertaking. I may have been better off just looking at the Upshall ThruLines.
  • It was helpful have two of Esther’s 1/2 Nieces to compare the results. This is because Esther matches on many intermarried lines and Joan and Elaine only match on Esther’s paternal side.
  • Esther’s ThruLines complemented and expanded upon the previous DNA work I have done on the Upshall and Dicks Families.
  • I compared Esther’s Upshall ThruLines with her AutoCluster results. The Jane Upshall/Tulk Line showed clearly in one of Esther’s Clusters.
  • I brought Esther’s ThruLines back to John Upshall born 1737 in Dorset, England and his wife Elisabeth Ellis. To me, the results clearly show that Esther descends through John Upshall and his daughter Sarah Upshall to Peter Upshall who was an early settler in Newfoundland in the Harbour Buffett area.
  • I was a little surprised that Esther had four DNA matches going back to a common ancestor who was born in 1737
  • ThruLines work well with Shared DNA Matches. I was able to find at least one new Upshall Line using Shared Matches to ThruLine Matches.
  • In the future, I would like to concentrate more on the Upshall Branches and build them out in my Excel spreadsheet.
  • It may be helpful to also check to see how many Upshall descendants have their DNA at Gedmatch, FTDNA and MyHeritage. This would allow for more detailed DNA analysis.
  • ThruLines are able to put together many trees and DNA matches in order to see a possible big picture solution to some genealogical problems.

 

 

Posted on

Finding More Frazers: Matthew

I match Matthew at AncestryDNA. In fact, AncestryDNA calls it a very high DNA match. Ancestry further says that they think I have a 99% chance of finding shared ancestors with Matthew. I took that as a challenge. I messaged Matthew and he gave me enough information to get started on a tree:

Matthew’s Frazer Genealogy

I was interested in Matthew’s Frazer side as that is where we must match:

 

 

Matthew gave me the name of his father and of his grandmother. That was enough to get going. From there I found his Frazer grandfather who was born in Manitoba, Canada. From there others have created Frazer trees that I can use:

Now I am getting into familiar territory with George and Susan Frazer:

Here is George Frazer and Susannah with four boys. Here is my list of children for George and Susannah:

It looks as though Ellen and Margaret died young. My guess is that the four youngest boys could be the ones in the photo above.

Next, I’ll put Matthew on my own Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart:

This shows that Matthew is my 4th cousin twice removed. He is also Gladys’ 1st cousin three times removed.

One Tree Leads To Another

Speaking of Gladys, she has shared DNA matches with Matthew. One of their shared matches is Sandra. Here is Sandra and her paternal tree:

I’ll add Sandra also to my DNA/genealogy tree:

Sandra is Gladys’ 1st cousin once removed.

ND Helps Fill Out the George Frazer Branch

Gladys and Sandra have a shared DNA match with ND:

One interesting thing is that I match Matthew by more DNA than I match Sandra or ND. I match Matthew by 49 cM across three segments. If I match Sandra or ND it would have to be by less than 20 cM as that is the limit for shared matches.

Summary and Conclusions

  • By using Matthew’s hints, I was able to convert our DNA match into a family tree.
  • Matthew’s DNA match adds to the existing DNA matches from the Richard Price Frazer and George Harvey Frazer Branches
  • By looking at shared matches between Matthew and Gladys, I was able to add Sandra and ND onto the James Clarence Frazer Branch.

 

Posted on

My AncestryDNA Match With Whitney Leads To a Frazer Common Ancestor

I have known about matching Whitney for a while, but I didn’t know how she fit in. Whitney and I have a sizeable DNA match spread out over four different DNA segments:

According to AncestryDNA, Whitney’s match is in the Very High Range:

That means that I should have a 99% chance of finding our common ancestors – assuming I can figure out the genealogy.

Whitney’s Frazer Ancestry

Here is Whitney’s tree at Ancestry:

Here is the tree I am building out for Whitney:

I had been working on this tree for a while and thought I should be looking at Whitney’s Masters side. However, today, I took an educated guess on her Cain side and came up with a Frazer. It looks like Whitney’s maternal grandfather’s mother was Elizabeth Frazer Cain.

Elizabeth Frazer was born in Boston to Richard Frazer – a cook. I know that some of my Frazer relatives were cooks,  and I had a Frazer relative named Richard, so that sounds promising. Here is the Richard Frazer family from my Frazer web page:

Richard was my great grandfather’s younger brother. This is my guess for Richard:

Richard’s wife was from Freedom, New Hampshire and this photo was taken in New Hampshire.

Here is Whitney in my DNA/Frazer Genealogy Chart:

Whitney fills in the DNA from Richard Frazer. Whitney and I are third cousins once removed. Here is how my Richard Branch looks like now at Ancestry:

Summary and Conclusion

  • I was only a step away from finding a Frazer link with Whitney and didn’t realize it.
  • According to AncestryDNA, there was a 99% chance that we had findable common ancestors. All I had to do was to find them.
  • If Whitney uploads her DNA to Gedmatch, I will be able to do more comparisons with other Frazer and McMaster cousins.
  • It is likely that my addition of the Cain family to my Ancestry Tree will result in new ThruLines. These are lines that are highlighted at Ancestry due to common ancestry and DNA matches.