Category: DNA General

The initials BV come up a lot in my Frazer DNA research. My family and I also have a significant DNA match to BV. This is because we are related to BV on two lines (Frazer and McMaster) and in two different ways and also due the fact that we randomly have a higher than average DNA match-up.

BV’s Genealogy with DNA-Tested Descendants

The obvious connection between BV, My family, Emily, Paul and Keith is with William McMaster and Margaret Frazer who were born in the late 1700’s. BV goes back one more generation than others on the tree as she had only two ancestors in the 19th century. Compared with me, I had four ancestors descending from the same common ancestors above in the 19th century.

I have put a green box around two of my other ancestors. They are George Frazer and James McMaster. They would match BV further back. George comes from two other Branches of the Frazer family whose common ancestor is Archibald Frazer born about 1690. I’m not as sure of the connection on the McMaster side, but my assumption is that there is a connection – either in Ireland or Scotland. Because these connections go further back, the DNA matches may not reflect these more distant relationships.

BV – The DNA

Here is how I match BV, who is my 3rd cousin, twice removed, by DNA.

Based on this DNA match, there should be 3.9 generations to our common ancestor. There are four generations between BV and our common ancestor, but six between me and our common ancestor. That averages out to 5 generations. That means that BV and I share about one more generation’s worth of DNA than expected.

Let’s Paint BV’s DNA Match

I can paint BV’s DNA onto mine using a program called DNA Painter. This is what I have painted so far:

This shows my paternal DNA on the top bar and the maternal on the bottom. For me, Frazer and McMaster are the top paternal bar. I already have Abraham McMaster up there somehow. I can drill down to figure that out. That match is on Chromosome 12 with someone named Warwick.

Unfortunately, I don’t remember who Warwick is right now. Perhaps it will come to me later.

Note on the key above, I don’t have anything for William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. That is one reason why my match with BV is so important. The top of the colored image above shows I am 38% painted. When I chose just the Paternal DNA, I see that I am 49% painted.

When I go to paint the DNA onto my map above, I get this message:

I can ignore the Maternal side as this is a paternal match. This says that there is overlap with Frazer/McMaster 1838 and Abraham McMaster 1764. The first note makes more sense as the McMaster in the Frazer McMaster 1838 was Fanny McMaster she was the sister of BV’s ancestor Marianne McMaster. The Abraham McMaster is more mysterious as I have that Fanny McMaster husband was James McMaster and that his father was Abraham McMaster. I’ll have to look more into that later.

Here is the Paternal side of my Chromosome Map with BV’s match in purple painted in:

Here is Chromosome 12 expanded:

Maury is on my Hartley side. Then I see how BV overlaps with matches with my 2nd cousin once removed Paul and Warwick. The light blue matches are other Frazer matches. The issue with my three matches with Paul, Warwick and BV is that they imply that there could be triangulation. That means that if Paul also matches Warwick and BV matches Warwick and BV matches Paul, that would also imply that they have the same common ancestor.

Warwick

I blog about all my the DNA and checked there. Turns out Warwick tested at MyHeritage. I mention Warwick in this Blog. Here is how my tree and Warwick’s match up:

This shows that, as I mentioned above, James McMaster Sr. who was Fanny McMaster’s husband is the son of Abraham McMaster. Fanny was the daughter of William McMaster. Some trees have William as the son of Abraham McMaster, but based on my research, I don’t think that is correct. In fact if is was correct it could imply that Fanny married her own brother.

Here is a possibility that would give a common ancestor of Archibald McMaster for Warwick, BV, Paul and myself:

Based on where these people lived, it looks like William could have been the son of a John McMaster. He may have been named for the father of Archibald McMaster who I have as John. Or the John in blue above may have descended from a brother of Archibald. Based on the above, James would have been a first cousin once removed to Fanny. My second scenario would have her as a 2nd cousin once removed to James Sr.

The other confusing part is that I don’t know who the Margery is that Abraham married. She could even be a Frazer.

The working theory is that Paul, Warwick and BV triangulate up to Archibald McMasteer born in 1730. Without drawing it all out, here is the idea of how the triangulation may work out:

BV descends from Marianne, I descend from Fanny and Warwick descends from Samuel who sailed to Australia.

BV and Her X Chromosome Matches

X Chromosome matches are interesting in that people only inherit the X Chromosome by certain paths. If you are a male or if you have a male in you ancestry those males have not inherited an X Chromosome. BV matches me on my paternal side, so I cannot have an X Chromosome match with BV. However, my three sisters, Heidi, Lori and Sharon all have X Chromosome matches with BV. In addition, Charlene has an X Chromosome match with BV:

Here is Sharon’s match with BV:

Here is Charlene’s match with BV:

Here is Sharon’s match with Charlene:

This shows that these three have triangulation. That means that they have a common ancestor and that common ancestor can only be along a certain path. That is a double narrowing down of the possibilities for the common ancestors of these three matches.

The X Path Inheritance

For Sharon, it looks like this:

The likely path is through my grandmother’s father, James A Frazer. Then through his mother Margaret McMaster. After that, one would think that it would go through Fanny McMaster and her parents where I have common ancestors with BV.

Checking BV’s X Inheritance

BV’s maternal grandmother was Elizabeth Shannon. This takes us to the same place as my tree.

Charlene’s Ancestry

My guess is that Sharon’s match with Charlene could represent an older Common ancestor. Here is Charlene’s McPartland Branch:

The apparent connection to my family is through Charlene’s brick wall ancestor Ann Frazer. I’ll also build out a tree for Charlene:

Jennie Penders is Charlene’s paternal grandmother. Here is the family in 1915:

We see that Jennie’s parents were both born in Ireland. Jennie’s mom Catherine or Katherine (Jennie) is the one that we are following:

Here is the grave marker in Lackawanna, NY to the South of Buffalo:

Getting From Buffalo to Ireland

Next, I would like to make the jump backwards to place Jane in Ireland. Just to confuse things, this passenger crew list from 16 May 1883 has a Kate and a Jennie:

Most genealogies have Jane as Katherine or Catherine Jane. Here Kate indicates she was 21 so born around 1861 or 1862.

Here is the 27 October 1860 Baptismal record that Joanna (a Frazer researcher) found in the Aghanah Catholic Parish record:

This is a record of the birth of Cath. Janam (Jane) [Mc]Partland daughter of Eugene and Ann Frazer. It appears that a Patrick Partland and a Healy were there and that the family lived in Annagh.

Here is the Parish:

Here is the updated tree:

The X Chromosome match no doubt goes through Ann Frazer.

Here is a potential birth record for Ann:

Hannah Frazer  daughter of  James and Margaret Frazer

Bapt.  Jan 05, 1823

Here I’m sticking an unknown with unknown parents. I’m not sure who this James and Margaret Frazer were. That’s the best I can do right now.

Back to BV’s Autosomal DNA Matches

BV has a good match with my 2nd cousin once removed, Paul:

This DNA also represents William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Or technically, it represents the DNA that Marianne McMaster got from either William McMaster or Margaret Frazer [and that she shared with her sister Fanny McMaster].

I decided to paint Paul’s Frazer and McMaster DNA to see what was going on:

The hot spots are at Chromosomes 1 and 12. Here is Paul’s Chromosome 12 expanded:

Isn’t that confusing. Notice that I put the match with Joanna way back to Archibald Frazer from the late 1600’s. However, there is a closer route.

I did find a match between Joanna and BV here:

That means that Joanna, Paul and BV triangulate and they have a common ancestor.

This shows Joanna, BV and Paul triangulating up to James Archibald born around 1720. I have Charlene over on the same branch as Joanna. However, I note a Catherine McPartland. If Ann Frazer was the daughter of Catherine Knott on the James Line, she could have named her daughter for her mother. I haven’t worked out the details on that, but it would make sense on a purely naming rationale. Perhaps we could vote on this idea. The above-shown triangulation puts Joanna and BV at 5th cousins.

Here is my new idea on the Catherine Knott Branch:

A Re-evaluation of the X Chromosome Triangulation

Above, I had mentioned that the X Chromosome triangulation between my three sisters, Charlene and BV. That makes more sense with the configuration that I have above:

Under this scenario, the X Chromosome DNA shared by these three is actually from Margaret Stewart and is not Frazer or McMaster DNA. That is because, if this were the correct path, Archibald inherited no X Chromosome from his father. He only got his X Chromosome from his Stewart mother Catherine. This scenario does not prove the lineage. However, it does show that it is a possible scenario.

Summary and Conclusions

• BV has played a pivotal role as a match in many ThruLines at Ancestry. Now her daughter has uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch Genesis, so we can take a closer look at what is going on with her DNA matches.
• I found a match between BV, my family and Warwick from Australia that seemed confusing. One possible explanation is that it suggests a possible common ancestor with Archibald McMaster who was born about 1730.
• I took a look at an X Chromosome match that BV had with my three sisters and with Charlene. These matches formed a triangulation. I looked at Charlene’s genealogy.
• I painted BV’s DNA onto my chromosome map and onto my cousin Paul’s chromosome map. There was a lot going on at Chromosome 1 but even more on Chromosome 12.
• I looked at a triangulation between Joanna, BV and Paul on Chromosome 12. This resulted in the a reassignment of the common ancestor for the matches with Joanna. I also moved re-figured BV under Michael Frazer where I feel she belongs.
• I noted that Charlene’s McPartland Line could also go under the Michael Frazer Branch. Although this is not a proven lineage, it is a plausible one based on the name of Catherine Knott possible being passed down to Catherine Jane McPartland. Also it fits in well with the X Chromosome triangulation mentioned above.
• While there were no major breakthroughs at this first look at BV’s DNA, it seems like her DNA matches are moving things toward a better explanation of Frazer and McMaster genealogy.
• It may be worthwhile to paint BV’s chromosomes in the future and compare her DNA matches with others in the Frazer DNA project.

 

 

 

 

I have been working through the ThruLines for descendants of the Frazers from County Roscommon. I recently worked on the James FrazerLine and will now work on the Archibald Line.

Gladys’ Genealogy

Here is how my family is related to Gladys:

At the top of the tree, there is Violet and James Frazer. It is believed that these were two Frazer first cousins. Violet was a daughter of Richard and James is believed to be the son of Philip Frazer. That makes Gladys my 3rd cousin, once removed. Gladys is in a good position for DNA comparisons as she is in a generation ahead of me and ahead of many others on the tree.

Richard Patterson Frazer was my 2nd great-grandfather George’s brother. George stayed in Ireland and Richard moved to New York State and then to Canada. Richard died in Manitoba in 1901. This splitting up of Frazer families was quite common due to difficult times in Ireland.

Gladys’ ThruLines

ThruLines are good in that they combine DNA matches with Ancestry Trees. Let’s start at Gladys’ grandparent level:

Gladys shows no DNA matches at this level. From the chart above, she matches Bill, but he didn’t test at AncestryDNA. He tested at FTDNA.

I go up a level and Gladys (GM) still has no DNA matches:

If Gladys had matches here, they would be at her 2nd cousin level. Again, she would have DNA matches but they tested at FTDNA.

James Frazer ThruLines

James was born around 1804 and is believed to have married his first cousin Vioet Frazer:

Gladys now has 8 DNA matches at this level. They are likely to be 3rd cousins or 3rd cousins once removed. These 8 matches represent me, my four Ancestry-tested siblings, my two children and my nephew:

Next, I put these results in a table:

My son JJ got a perfect score of 22% out of 22%. Sharon got a lower score for getting too much of a match at 72 cM. However, all the levels of matches are good.

Gladys’ 3rd Great-Grandparents: Philip and Richard

This is where things get interesting as there are multiple Frazer Lines.

Philip Frazer Born About 1776

Gladys picks up Martha on ThruLines:

Martha has a strong DNA match for a 4th cousin, once removed. I also have Martha on my own DNA family tree:

I wrote a previous Blog on Martha here. It is interesting that Martha got the DNA match with Gladys and her 3rd cousins Richard and Barry did not match Gladys by DNA. Martha and Gladys get low marks for matching too much DNA:

Note that Gladys and Martha match on four segments. That could be a sign that they match on multiple lines. In my previous Blog on Martha, I show that Gladys and Martha are related also on the Frazer/Stinson Line:

Richard Frazer Born About 1777 – Philip’s Brother

On the Richard Frazer branch, Gladys shows as a half fourth cousin, but I think she should be a full fourth cousin to Michael:

Part of the problem is that we don’t have a name for Richard’s wife.

Here Michael has a DNA match higher than Ancestry would like, but he also matches Gladys on the Archibald/Stinson line. See, Michael and Gladys match on the three segments. That is a possible sign of multiple common ancestors.

Gladys and Archibald Frazer Born About 1778

This is the line I call the Archibald/Stinson Line.

Now things are heating up. Here is Michael again as expected. That means that someone put in Michael and Gladys’ trees correctly and Ancestry interpreted those trees correctly.

I’ll start with two on the Mary Frazer Branch.

Next is the Archibald, son of Archibald Branch:

Here is a good representation. I didn’t have the son Edward Branch on my previous Frazer DNA tree. Cathy is already in the Frazer DNA Project.

The above chart shows the many matches that Gladys has with people on the Archibald Frazer/Stinson Line.

Gladys’ Match with Daniel

Because I haven’t been tracking any DNA matches on the Edward Frazer Branch above, I’ll take a look at Daniel’s Frazer tree:

Daniel’s mother and grandmother are from his own tree. His Frazer great-grandmother is from Maria’s tree and Edward is from my own tree. Ancestry has done some computer collaboration work. I’ll build a private tree to see if I can get the same thing that Ancestry did.

Here is Mary and her family in 1940. They are living on Harvest Avenue in New York:

 

Mary’s mom was also born in New York.

Here is the tree I am building on Daniel’s mother’s side:

Ancestry has hints for me, but I don’t want to go with the hints now. The hint is that Mildred’s mom is Mary Winnifred Frazer.

This couple got married in 1928:

Here is the marriage License:

Here is the young family in 1930:

This says that both of Mildred’s parents were born in Brooklyn, NY.

This appears to be Mildred in 1920:

According to this record, Mildred’s mother was born in England and her father in New York. All four of Mildred’s grandparents were born in Ireland based on the 1920 Census.

This looks to be the same family in 1900:

This shows Mary coming to the US in 1871, so at about age 2.

The conventional wisdom of Ancestry Trees has Mary in Brooklyn, NY in 1880:

This shows that Edward and Winifred were born in Ireland. The children down to Mary were born in England and Edward Jr. was born in New York. This looks to be the same family five years earlier in 1875:

It appears that Winifred also went by Anne. I believe I see the children in Lancashire:

The father as Fred seems to be an error.

This shows the Link between New York and Lancashire. But how do I get back to Ireland?

This record implies that the couple wed in the first quarter of 1861:

Here is the married couple in 1861 in a place called Church, Lancashire:

I would say that this record gives the best birth years for Edward Frazer and Winifred Russell.

I just saw another hint in the 1861 Church, Lancashire Census:

Here is Edward’s older brother Alexander born about 1836. This is a critical record. From here, Edward moves with his family to New York. Alexander moves back to Ireland and marries there. Then some of Alexander’s children emigrate to the US.

That means that if I have made all my connections properly, then this tree may be off:

I am thinking that Alexander shown above was really born closer to 1836 and Edward shown above was really born closer to 1840.

An Updated Tree with Edward Frazer Born About 1840

I just need to update Alexander’s birth year.

Some Alexander Frazer Genealogy

I show Cathy descending from Alexander. He was probably the same Alexander Frazer who was in Lancashire in 1861 with his younger brother Edward Frazer and his new wife Winifred. Cathy has this about Alexander on her tree:

This shows Alexander’s parents, spouse and 12 children. Cathy’s grandmother is Anna Katherine aka Jane Kate Frazer. Here is Alexander in 1901 with his family:

Based on this Census, he would have been born about 1839 or 1840. That is closer to the 1836 birth that I had based on his stay in Lancashire.

 

Alexander was a farmer in Carrowncully, Roscommon:

 

That brings us down to Cathy’s grandmother. This photo is saved to Cathy’s tree:

Cathy shows that her grandmother traveled from Carrowncully to New York City in 1906 accompanied by her older brother Charles:

This photo is also attached to Cathy’s tree showing Charles and his father Alexander:

Brenda’s Link to Alexander Frazer Born 1836

Brenda descends from Thomas who was one of Annie’s many siblings. I didn’t mention above that Annie married and was living in Westport, CT by the 1910 Census:

Annie’s brother Charles was also living in Westport in 1910:

In fact, Charles was living in the same house with Annie.

But I’m looking for Thomas. Thomas was in Westport 10 years earlier:

Lilian is Brenda’s great-grandmother. It looks like Annie and Charles may have followed their older brother Thomas John to Westport, CT.

Based on ThruLines, I have added Brenda to Cathy’s orange Alexander Frazer Branch:

Alan of the Frazers of Australia

The purple boxes above represent the Frazer Family in Australia. Alan represents a new branch:

This is where the ThruLines appear to work well. I can’t tell who Alan’s mother is. She is probably still alive or at least shown that way on Alan’s tree. Because of that, I can’t see any information about her. However, Ancestry must know enough about her to link her as the daughter of John William Bernard Foxwell. The proper way for me to check this is to build a tree for Alan and see if it agrees with Ancestry. I think it will.

Here is my quick and dirty tree for Alan:

It got me back to John Parker Frazer who is the Frazer who moved to Australia. Here is his birth record in Kilmactranny Parish, County Sligo, Ireland:

John Parker Frazer  son of Archibald and Catherine Frazer
Born  Jun 28, 1827                                                    
Bapt.  Jul 03, 1827

Also I see that Beatrice’s middle name above is Honora. This is likely from her grandmother Honora White. I checked Jane who is in the Frazer DNA Project and she has a good match to Alan. That means I can add Alan to the purple Frazer Branch from Australia through Robert Alexander Frazer. I have that Robert was born in Richmond outside of Melbourne:

The Frazer Nation keeps expanding.

Moving Gladys Up the Frazer Tree to Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly

As a result of cousin marriages, Gladys shows Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly as her ancestors three times:

This both simplifies things and complicates them at the same time.

Here are Gladys’ ThruLines at this level:

I have covered Philip and Archibald. Gladys also descends from Richard, but I don’t see him here. Let’s look at John.

John Frazer – Born About 1775

Here is TF who sounds familiar and Blair who doesn’t sound familiar. Both of these matches are beyond the 5th cousin level so pretty far out. TF has a private tree and Blair’s tree is public. If the configuration is right, TG and Blair would be 3rd cousins to each other.

The John Frazer Branch doesn’t get much attention, so these matches are interesting.

TFs Tree

I see that TF also matches my sister Heidi – perhaps others of my siblings also. Here is some old research done on the John and Phlip Frazer Branches:

From what I can tell, this shows that John had William, Stewart, Archibald and John. Out of those it looks like William and John went to the USA. If I have this right, it looks like TF follows down from Archibald to John James.

Here is TF’s tree starting with her grandfather Guernsey Preston Frazer:

He was born in Niagara County, New York and died in San Bruno near San Francisco:

Washington Abraham Frazer Born About 1864

Washington married on January 7, 1891 in Ontario even though he and his bride lived in the US:

 

Here is Washington in 1870 in Lockport, NY:

Here is Lockport:

John Frazer Born About 1824 Ireland

Here is the 1865 Lockport Census:

John Frazer was running a hotel in Lockport in 1860:

This Census has John J born in Canada about 1849. This Census also gives a more exact date for the birth of Washington Frazer.

Here is John Frazer and his wife’s grave stone:

Here is the family in 1855:

If the family was in Canada in 1849 and in Niagara County in in 1851, they may have missed the Canadian and US Census.

I have already looked at Marilee who is in the Frazer DNA Project. I put her here on my Frazer DNA chart:

I have that John Frazer was married to Sarah Orr based on the grave stone, but I have seen another marriage record for John Frazer – though possibly a different John. I could probably clear that up by going through all of Sarah’s children’s records to try to find a maiden name for Sarah.

Here is Marilee with TF who I have a third cousins:

Connecting John Frazer to Ireland

I have this record for John James Frazer:

18 Feb 1821  bpt.      John James s. of Archibald and                                                                            Jane (WHITE)           Ardcarne        RI                    ArdC               Address: Aghrafinigan

My guess is that this could be the same person as the John Frazer who lived in Lockport, NY. From John’s grave marker his birth is said to be 14 Feb 1824. My guess is that John may have been born 14 Feb 1821 and baptized four days later. Most of the Census records indicate that John was born around 1824. However, I few indicate that he could have been born earlier. For example, in the 1865 New York Census, John is listed as being 46 which would put his birth at 1819 or 1820.

Blair’s Connection to John Frazer

Again, I’ll build my own tree for Blair. This is what Blair’s tree shows:

Here is the 1881 Ontario Census for Anna Marie Frazer:

If these ages are right, then it would appear there were no parents in the house at the time of the Census. Here is Essa where the family lived in 1881.

The sister of one of my McMaster ancestors lived in nearby Tecumseth for a while. I don’t know if this was a coincidence or not.

Here is Annie’s marriage record from 1898:

The couple married in Cookstown where the red marker is below.

The bride and groom were from Bradford and witness George Frazer was from Bond Head.

Here is the family in 1871 in Gwillimbury West, Ontario. The father William is a farm laborer:

 

Gwillimbury was already shown right below Bradford above in the previous map image.

Tieing William Frazer Into the Irish Frazers

William’s birth appears to be well documented:

14 Jul 1828   b.         William s. of Archibald and Jane (WHITE)           Kilmactranny PR KlmC (MFA)

21 Jul 1828   bpt.      William s. of Archibald and Jane (WHITE)           Ardcarne        RI                    ArdC

I have the same information:

William Frazer  son of  Archibald and Jane Frazer
Born  Jul 14, 1828
Bapt.  Jul 22, 1828

I don’t know if the White above was in the records or someone’s interpretation.

I also found a marriage record for William Frazer:

Here Tecumseth comes into play again. This place was renamed New Tecumseth on the map I showed above.

Here is an interesting photo of William Frazer someone posted at Ancestry:

Tripling the Size of the DNA John Frazer Tree

 

I believe that this tree ties in fairly well by DNA and genealogy. By the way, Marilee tested her DNA at MyHeritage, so would not appear at AncestryDNA. To show their matches with Marilee, TF and Blair would have to upload to Gedmatch or MyHeritage.

Taking Gladys Back to 1690

Here is the final step:

People should be skeptical of these ThruLines that are at a distant level. That means that they should be checked out for accuracy. In the past, I have noted possible additional connections that may by-pass the route all the way up to Archibald from 1690. The fact that these matches are both on the Michael Frazer line may be significant. Also Margaret Frazer and three of her daughters lived in the area of Tecumseth that I mentioned. I match BV at quite a significant level; however, the match probably represents the McMaster side. Perhaps there are other McMaster, Frazer or other connections that I am missing.

Gladys’ Chart of ThruLine Matches

I have Gladys’ Thrulines into 3C, 4C, 5C and 6C. James and Violet Frazer are from Philip and Richard below. The Archibald Frazer 1778 matches are not in the Philip or Richard Frazer groups. Gladys’ matches with TF and Blair seem to be valid matches tracing back to John Frazer born 1775.

Gladys has a good representation of Frazer matches. She also matches two people on the Branch of James Frazer’s son Michael. From other DNA match analysis, my sense is that the common ancestor of Archibald Frazer born about 1690 could be too far removed and that there could be a better choice for common ancestor. However, the common ancestor of Archibald Frazer from 1690 is not rulted out either.

Summary and Conclusions

• It took a while to go through Gladys’ ThruLines, because I checked on the genealogy of some of her matches.
• I found a new important record for brothers Edward and Alexander Frazer who were living in Lancashire in 1861.
• I was able to link these families back to the Frazers of North Roscommon, Ireland.
• I was able to add two more Branches to the John Frazer Born 1775 Line to my combined DNA match/Frazer genealogy chart.
• I looked at Gladys’ match with two descendants from the Michael Frazer Line. I was familiar with the connection and have made suggestions in the past haveing to do with the McPartland Family.

 

So far, I have looked at Joanna’s and Beverly’s ThruLines. It took two Blogs to write about Beverly’s Thrulines. I wrote about a ThruLines match showing my connection to Michael Frazer of the James Line, but that match disappeared. I wrote another Blog about the connection of my fourth great-grandmother Margaret Frazer to Michael Frazer.  I started looking at James Frazer Line ThruLines as I thought they might be easier, but it resulted in a lot in information and I discovered new branches of DNA matches.

My James Line connection would be through the unproven connection between Margaret Frazer and Michael Frazer. Then Michael is the son of James Frazer.

A Summary of My James Line Connection Via ThruLines

I had a ThruLine connection with someone and that connection disappeared as mentioned above. Here is how my connection looks now:

This is a little confusing and ambiguous. It’s confusing because I should be a full 3rd cousin once removed to Keith. The ambiguous part is that I have Fanny descending from Michael Frazer, but I Keith and I are also related on Fanny’s husband’s side James McMaster. The match doesn’t show there because Keith and I perhaps have slightly different information on James.

Sister Heidi’s ThruLines

Next I look at my siblings’ results. Four out of five of my siblings have tested at AncestryDNA. Heidi has the same match as me plus this match with Joseph:

This is one generation up from Heidi’s and my common ancestor with Keith. The DNA match doesn’t show that Heidi descends from Michael, but the tree evidence shows that. Heidi’s next match is with a descendant of Henry Patrick Frazer who I wrote extensively about in one of my past ThruLines Blogs.

This match gives DNA evidence and tree evidence that Margaret Frazer was the daughter of Michael Frazer and a brother of Henry Patrick Frazer. This is not DNA proof, because the tree could still be wrong and the DNA match could belong to a connection between Heidi and Richard on a completely different line that we are not aware of. However, the DNA evidence gives us confidence that we are on the right track.

My Brother Jon’s ThruLines

Jon’s match looks like mine except it adds in Melissa. When I expand the ThruLines, I get this:

Melissa’s tree goes up to her grandmother Joan and my tree goes down to Frances. ThruLines has stitched the two trees together. ThruLines are good in that it forces you to check the genealogy. I can either start a new tree for Melissa, or bring my tree down. I’ll try going down to see if I can match up with Melissa. However, a problem with doing this is that even if I do connect with Melissa, it could be on two lines. William McMaster married my great-grandmother’s sister Catherine Clarke.

Here is Melissa’s Joan Butler in the 1930 Census:

I circled Scotland, because this is not right. Frances’ mother was born in Ireland. There was some stigma about being Irish that some families’ shied away from. Actually, Frances’ father was also born in Ireland and the Census says he was born in Massachusetts. Right away I see in Melissa’s tree that Joan is Joan Clark Butler. The Clark is a giveaway that we are related as William McMaster married Catherine Clarke. The ‘e’ in Clarke went away after the family moved to the US.

Here is another clue in the 1940 Census:

Here we see Hubert McMaster. Hubert was Frances’ older brother born in 1889. This shows that the trees match up. However, I can’t tell if the DNA match is on the McMaster side or Clarke side. Melissa would have to upload her DNA to Gedmatch to check that. Even then it may be difficult to tell.

Jon also has a match with BV:

BV is Jon’s 3rd cousin twice removed. Mary Ann McMaster is the sister of my 3rd great-grandmother. She recently showed up when I asked Cheryl (who does the family research) to take out the space between the Mc and Master that used to be there. Actually this ThruLine showed up as I was writing this Blog. The same is true on my matches except I have a larger match.

Update for Heidi on the Mary Ann McMaster Line

Lori’s Michael Frazer ThruLines

My sister Lori has this additional McMaster connection:

I don’t have Robert in my tree. He is from Joanna’s tree. Here is what the expanded tree looks like:

The Private people are from Joanna’s tree. I might as well create a new tree for Frank and see where it goes. Interestingly, Ancestry pulled in Lillian above from another tree than the one that Frank’s DNA was attached to – perhaps a tree of a child of Frank. Because Frank’s tree only goes up to his mother. That is helpful, Ancestry.

Frank’s tree:

Frank’s son’s tree where Lillian below is the mother of Nancy above:

This goes all the way up to Robert McMaster. However, this shows Lillian being born in Glasgow, Scotland, Edward Bowles in Drumkeeran, Leitrim, IRE and Margaret McMaster in England. The 1920 Census supports this tree:

The 1910 Census gives a different story:

This Census looks like it was done in smudgy pencil. Here James Bowles is still alive. This shows that everyone’s two parents were from Ireland. I also brought in the information on naturalization in the last two columns.

Frank’s tree mentions the 1901 Census for Scotland. In that Census all in the family were from Ireland except for Lillian. She was born in Scotland. Their three-year old son Robert was born in Ireland. That means that the family left for Scotland around 1899.

Here is Edward Bowles and family on their way to Boston via Ellis Island on June, 1901:

He was a draper.

Frank’s son’s tree further has this for Edward’s family:

I found a death certificate for Edward’s sister Margaret in Pennsylvania:

This shows that she usually lived in Hingham, MA. Her mother is listed as M. MacMaster. This gives me the evidence I need to confirm Frank’s son’s tree. I want to make sure that I get Margaret right, because she is the one I am looking for.

More on Margaret McMaster

Here is Margaret’s marriage record at Ancestry:

Now I am getting back to familiar territory. Here are two records:

Mar 15, 1866 George Frazer of Ballindoon son of James Frazer

                      Margaret McMaster of Cuilnagleragh, Kilmactranny daughter of James McMaster

                      in the presence of Thomas Acheson,  James Frazer

Oct 08, 1866  James Boles, farmer  son of Edward Boles

                      Margaret McMaster  daughter of Robert McMaster

                      in the presence of  ?  Irwin, James Boles

The first record is for my second great-grandmother Margaret. The second record is Frank’s 2nd great-grandmother Margaret. Shows that Frank and I have something in common.

Here is Griffith’s Valuation published 1858:

This includes all the lands of Dromore. This shows that Robert was from Dromore. My web page on the McMasters of Dromore has this:

Perhaps Robert was another son of John.

Here is Dromore, spelled Drummore in the Tithe Applotment in 1833 about 25 years before Griffith’s Valuation:

The evaluation shows a John and a Robert McMaster living in ‘Drummore’.

A second possibility is that Robert could have been a brother of John McMaster. Here is a burial date for a Robert McMaster:

Jan 03, 1888    Robert McMaster  Age 85

Ages given at burial can be way off. If it is right, Robert would have been born 1803.

Here is a burial date for Anne McMaster:

May 20, 1847    Anne McMaster  Age 76.   Presumably nee Shannon

The note is by the researcher and transcriber. If this is Anne Shannon, then my birth date and marriage for John could be wrong. That would put her birth at 1771. She would have been 47 at the birth of Margaret. Let’s say she was born in 1776 and she was 42 at the birth of Margaret. Let’s also assume that she was the mother of Robert and that he was either 80 or 85 when he died. That would mean that Anne would have been betwee 27 and 32 yeaers old when she had Robert. This is a lot of supposing. My top guess is that Robert was the son of the John McMaster shown from my web page above.

BV also showed up on Lori’s ThruLines:

In addition, Lori has a match on the Henry Patrick Frazer Branch. This is important, because the other matches could be on the McMaster side.

I have gone over the Henry Patrick Frazer genealogy in a previous Blog and the connection looks good. The DNA match is small as one might expect.

My Sister Sharon’s ThruLines

Sharon has an extra amount of McMaster DNA matches:

Most of these were discussed before. However, there are two new matches under Mary Ann McMaster:

These new matches are with AC and Kerry. My guess is that these are valid trees as there are DNA matches attached. My existing tree only goes down as far as Elizabeth Shannon, so this gives me a chance to update my tree:

This is the family in Lane Tree, Contra Costa, CA in 1900. So far only, Mabel from the tree above has been born.

In 1910, Elizabeth had died and the family was living in Township 8:

Now we see Francis and Leslie.

Sharon’s new-found matches with AC and Kerry check out fine. It’s a good idea to check because sometimes there are mistakes.

Summary of My Family’s ThruLines on the Frazer/Archibald Line

The ThruLines show our ancestry going up to Michael Frazer. This connection is strongly suspected, though not proven. I want to summarize the DNA matches for all the ThruLines to get a feel for the probabilities of the DNA matches. This could be important when looking at relationships that are less probable.

I’ll try a chart like this:

The number I’m interested in is the percentage. Ancestry says, for example, with Sharon’s match to AC as a 4th cousin once removed:

The match is even a bit high as it would be a little more likely to be a 4th cousin (at 22%).

I need to add the cM match level to my chart also. Here is Sharon’s match:

Next, I add in Kerry:

 

Note that the top % is now 33%. That is because it is more likely to have a smaller match at this level of relationship. The reason that I have the top % is to see how high the scale goes for a given DNA match.

Here are the rest of Sharon’s matches on the Michael McMaster ThruLines:

I don’t agree with the last two results. Keith may be shown as a 1/2 3rd cousin because I have Fanny as the husband of James McMaster Sr. Perhaps the senior is throwing off Ancestry. The ThruLines do show that there is a 22% chance that the match would be a 1/2 3rd cousin.

The Full Results for the Michael Frazer ThruLines for My Family

Jon’s match with Melissa was a bit unusual. Jon had a 6 cM match with Melissa in three segments. So those are tiny segments. He should match her equally on the Clarke Line, so that could explain the number of segments. That would make them double 4th cousins, but I don’t think Ancestry accounts for that.

Here is the same information sorted by relationship:

Note that as the relationships get further away, the percentages get higher. I have noted this same effect in at least one other ThruLines analysis for Joanna. Then at the level that I’m trying to prove ancestry, the percentages disappear, because the relationships are too distant (beyond fifth cousin).

My Results Compared with Joanna’s Results

Here are Joanna’s results:

When I did Joanna’s chart I didn’t include the maximum percentages. Here Joanna has more matches in the 2nd cousin range compared to my family. However, if you look at Joanna’s results starting with her third cousin, once removed match, her results go from 12 to the 20’s for her fourth cousins to 33% for her 5th cousins. That seems to be consistent with my results.

Summary and Conclusions

• Most of my family’s Michael Branch Thruline matches are through McMaster. These matches don’t add as much evidence as the more distant matches.
• Heidi and Lori have 7 cM matches with Richard who descends from Michael Frazer. This is probably a non-McMaster match and adds evidence that Margaret Frazer is the daughter of Michael Frazer.
• I looked at all the cM matches with the Ancestry ThruLines percentages to get a feel for the numbers. I also looked at the maximum percentages for the given match level.
• I sorted these matches and saw that the percentages got higher as the relationships got further out. I had noticed this happening with Joanna’s results from a previous Blog.
• Some ThruLines are not as they should appear as I disagree with the common ancestor and/or ThruLines shows a half relationship where I think there should be a full relationship. It may be possible to fix these issues, but I’m not sure how to do that right now. It may involve correcting other people’s trees.
• It was interesting to see in my family with 5 siblings tested at AncestryDNA how the ThruLine results differed for each sibling while just looking at one Branch and one common ancestor.

I started a lot of the pre-work for this Blog in my previous Blog on Beverly’s ThruLines. Here is where I left off:

I had not been sure where to put Margaret born about 1794. Should she be under Archibald or Michael? From matches, it seem certain that she is under the main Line of James Frazer who was born around the 1720’s. ThruLines suggests that Margaret should be under Michael. However, I can’t tell if it is the genealogical part or DNA part of ThruLines making that suggestion – or some combination of the two.

Margaret Frazer Genealogy

I had started with Keith and his genealogy. He and Paul and my family descend from a double family of McMasters. Fanny McMaster is the daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Fanny married James McMaster.

Next is Chuck. He is already on my chart above. People have been complaining that ThruLines has been changing. Right now the common ancestor of Michael Frazer has disappeared from Beverly’s list. However, his wife Margaret Stewart is still on Beverly’s ancestry list.

It will be difficult to verify Chuck’s tree as it is private. Ancestry apparently can see his grandfather Lee and makes the connection up to Margaret using five other trees.

Jane McMaster Born About 1820

Here are the McMaster children I have for Margaret Frazer from my McMaster Web Page:

This shows that the couple were married in 1813. I show four daughters with the first being born around 1820. That leaves room for other children. I would like to prove that Margaret Frazer was the daughter of Margaret Stuart. That means that Margaret should have named a daughter for her mother who was also Margaret. I don’t show any on my list of four daughters above. However, I have this family lore from a Jane McMaster descendant. I read this again and was struck by a reference to a Margaret which I will highlight:

The following information written about my 2nd great grandmother, JANE MCMASTER, comes from a family history titled ‘The Wheeler and McMaster Family History as told by May McMaster Timmel, 1960’. It was sent to me by Geraldine Fickel of Glenwood, Iowa before her death in the 1990’s. William McMaster, Jane’s first child was born in Edinborough, Scotland although his home was Dramora, County Sligo, Ireland. A child of wealthy parents, he was never taught to work. Jane, his mother belonged to the Stuart line and was a lady in-waiting to one of the Queens. Her name was McMaster before her marriage to a McMaster. She was Scotch and he was Irish. Her husband (George) died when William was about 6 yrs. old and a few months before his sister Anna was born. Not wishing inter-marriage in her family as was the custom in Scotland, William’s mother Jane started to America with her family leaving six year old William with her brother in Edinborough. Anna was born at sea. The other children were Sue and James. She with her young family stopped in Canada for a short time and then came to Milwaukee, Wisconsin where her sister Margaret lived. After a few years she married again, a man by the name of Thompson. He died some years later and she continued to live in Wisconsin. She was very dainty and aristocratic and we all waited on her for she knew nothing of work. Sister Carrie looked very much like her and was our father’s favorite. ‘Grandmother’ Jane went back to Milwaukee with her sister Margaret who came for her and was much like her. Later she went to Oakland, California to live with her husband’s half brother E.A. Thompson and passed away there. She was extremely religious and often took the place of the circuit rider in (Wisconsin) in the winter when the snow was deep and the circuit rider could not make his rounds. She also lived with her son ‘Mac’ and daughter-in-law Laura in their hotel in Western, Nebraska for about a year. Jane and ‘Grandmother’ Wheeler were exact opposites. They were given rooms as far as possible away from each other. Grandmother Wheeler firmly believed every one should work and wasn’t slow in speaking her mind. Written by Laura May McMaster Timmel Written 1957,Assembled 1960. 

Now I am interested in this Jane and seeing if I can find anything on her sister Margaret. Here was some additional information I had on my web site:

Whether the above account of Jane McMaster and family is fact leaves room for doubt. The following account is from the Civil War files of Jane’s youngest son, George A. McMaster, obtained from the National Archives, October 2000: Jane McMaster Thompson filed for a ‘Dependent Mother’s Pension’ on or about 15 December 1890 for a pension of $12.00 per month from theMilwaukee Agency (certificate #308018) based on the death of her son George. She stated at that time that she had no means of support and recorded below is the affidavit from her sister Catherine Frazier McMaster Bennett: GENERAL AFFIDAVIT State of Wisconsin County of Milwaukee In the matter of the claim for pension of JANE THOMPSON, mother ofGEORGE MCMASTERS late a Private, Co. ‘B’, 8th NY Heavy Artillery personally came before me a Notary Public in and for the County and State aforesaid, CATHARINE BENNETT residing at 250 First Avenue, Milwaukee, his cousin, person of lawful age, who being duly sworn, declares in relation to the aforesaid claim as follows: That claimant and deponent are sisters and lived in County of Sligo, Ireland under the same roof, until the claimant above named was married. Deponent says though she was not present at claimants marriage with GEORGE MCMASTERS , yet they came back to my father’s house a day or two after as man and wife and that they lived in the neighborhood as man and wife until he died. That they were married by a minister named Scott. That the date of claimant’s marriage was August 25th, 1839. That deponent was present when George McMaster late of Co. B, 8th NY Heavy Artillery was born on the 22 day of May 1847 in York County, Province of Canada and parents were then both living and living together. The name of his mother was Jane McMaster and his father’s name George McMaster. That the soldier George McMaster was never married. That deponent knew him well all the years of his life until he went to the war. That George McMasters, father of soldier, died September 22, 1847 in Canada. Deponent was present at his death bed. That deponent was not present at marriage of claimant with Thompson but knows by hearsay and knew that they lived as husband and wife. That her marriage with WILLIAM THOMPSON was May 11th, 1851 in Canada as she is informed and believes. Deponent knows that claimant has no means of support, and no one person legally liable to support her and has no property. I further declare that I have no interest in said claim and am not concerned in its prosecution. Signed: CATHERINE BENNETT

The big difference I see between the 1960 version and my version is that Margaret seems to be replaced by Catherine. It seems possible that Catherine could have gone by Margaret? Either that or there were two different sisters. Here is an interesting record for Jane Thompson:

Here is Antioch in proximity to Oakland, CA:

I’m starting with the end of Jane’s life, but it was based on a hot tip from my web page. I now have Jane’s birth date.

Here is the Thompson family in 1851 in Vaughan:

10 years later in 1861 they were still in Vaughan:

William was a carpenter.

Here is the family in 1871 in Tecumseth, Ontario – not far from Vaughan:

 

Wikipedia has this to say about New Tecumseth:

The municipality was created through the amalgamation of the municipal governments of several communities with the Township of Tecumseth. The name ‘New Tecumseth’ was chosen because a Town of Tecumseh already exists in Essex County. The borders of the old township, with some adjustments along the eastern edge, and with the addition of all of Alliston, are the borders of the new town.

Jane’s Sister: Catherine Frazer McMaster Bennett

Here is Catherine with her husband and son in Milwaukee in 1905:

Here is the family in 1870 in Wauwatosa:

In 1870 there was a Fanny in the family. She was probably named for my ancestor Fanny McMaster, sister of Catherine Bennett.

Chuck’s Lineage

After all that, I don’t see the connection between Chuck and Jane McMaster as per ThruLines:

From what I can tell, based on Al’s Tree, the Mary Jane Thompson above is wrongly shown as the daughter of a James and Jane Thompson. That means that now I need a tree starting with Chuck and going up to get the correct connections.

This could be the disconnect as seen in the 1880 Census for Janesville, Wisconsin:

This shows Robert H Lorwry’s mother as May, born about 1854 in Ontario. The 1861 Census for Vaughan, Ontario gets us back on track:

Here is the wrong ThruLines [based on Al’s Tree] Mary Jane at the bottom of the 1861 Census in Etobicoke:

The above Census gave the wrong father and mother James and Mary. That ‘s pretty good that ThruLines got the right results using the wrong tree.

Mollie’s Tree

This tree has too many unknowns to evaluate:

Note that ThruLines now has ‘Private’ as Beverly’s ancestor instead of Michael Frazer.

Robert McMaster is from Joanna’s tree.

Joanna has Margaret dieing in Massachusetts:

I’m not finding these records easily, so I’ll pull the plug on this line. I may hear more from Joanna later. That leaves me with two good trees and one that doesn’t look right to me but that I can’t prove or disprove.

The Margaret Frazer Branch DNA

Fortunately Keith is in this Branch. He recently put his DNA back up on Gedmatch Genesis after I wrote to him. His AncestryDNA match with Beverly is small as he has a 14 cM but it is over two segments. Here are the results as seen at Genesis:

My assumption is that the above DNA represents Frazer DNA.

Here is a match that Keith has with Emily:

Keith and Paul match here:

Here is Keith’s match with my brother Jim:

 

Keith’s matches with Emily, Paul, and Jim probably represent McMaster DNA as they are the closer common ancestors.

Recombinant DNA

Keith matches Emily and Paul up to position 20M on Chromosome 7. After that point, he starts matching Beverly. This could represent Keith’s crossover from McMaster to Frazer. We all carry recombination points in our DNA where DNA from different sides of our ancestors have recombined. When we were conceived, DNA from our four grandparents passed down by our parents split apart and recombined to make us. However, that DNA which we received had already been recombined from recombinations in previous generations:

So in the above diagram, Keith’s DNA consists of the recombination of his four grandparents’ DNA. In Keith’s great-grandfather Hubert, the same thing happened. His four grandparents’ DNA (including William McMaster and Margaret Frazer) recombined to make up Hubert. This DNA along with its recombinations was sent down to Keith.

Keith matches Jamie on the Archibald /Stinson Line here:

Keith matches John on the same line:

Here is Keith’s match with Karen from the McPartland Line:

Here is a match with Bob from the McPartland group:

Keith matches Charlene from the McPartlands:

As the above all have Frazer’s in their ancestry, my assumption is that the above matches could represent Frazer DNA also. It is difficult to know for sure without knowing all the ancestors of all the matches.

Another Frazer Match Diagram

This diagram is based on matches to Beverly:

 

I didn’t include the Robert McMaster Branch as I have not verified that Branch. The lines represent the DNA matches that Beverly has with the circled people. I don’t have access to results other than Beverly’s so I don’t know if these people match each other.

So Is Margaret Frazer the Daughter of Michael Frazer?

That is the question. I’ll bring back my chart:

Here I want to compare WE and Richard at 21% and 20% to Chuck and Keith at 33% and 27%. One argument could be that if Beverly matches descendants of the genealogically proven Henry Patrick Branch with a 20% genetic likelihood, then it is even more likely that in the current configuration, the Margaret Frazer Branch is even more genetically likely at 30%.

This is new territory, so I will want to hold off on any conclusions. However, my argument seems pretty convincing. I still want to compare these results to others on the James Line.

Comparing the Margaret Frazer Branch with Joanna

Joanna shows herself on the Archibald Frazer born 1751 Branch. Here is how she matches the Margaret Frazer Branch as seen on ThruLines:

Joanna shows an unusually high match to Mollie. However, Mollie is from the Robert McMaster Branch. This is a branch that I have not verified. Joanna does not show a match to Chuck or Keith. This appears to be further evidence that Margaret Frazer should descend from Michael Frazer and not his brother Archibald. Michael and Archibald are the two candidates for fathers for Margaret that I have looked at.

Patrick Frazer

There was another brother to Archibald and Michael named Patrick, but not much is known about him. This mid-20th century genealogy shows he had two daughters, Mary and Jane:

These may be children of the above Patrick that he had later in life:

It would seem that Patrick would not be a very likely candidate for the father of Margaret Frazer.

One More Tree: Marianne McMaster

This person does not appear on ThruLines, but perhaps will in the future. From my Web Page:

I believe that this Marrianne is the same as this person:

I have trouble finding this Maryann due to the space between Mc and Master in the tree. Interesting that Maryann died in Antioch, CA. Remember Jane McMaster above? She died in the same place and around the same time. The above photo is from a tree for BV and also shows this spouse and children for Maryann:

William above could have been named for Maryann’s father William McMaster and the Frances could be for Maryann’s sister (my ancestor Fanny McMaster).

More Connections in Vaughan, Ontario

When I look at Maryann in the tree that Cheryl made for her, I find a reference to Vaughan, Ontario in 1851. Here she is – right next to another Thompson:

This was Thomas Thompson, a lumber merchant – probably a relative of Jane’s husband William Thompson. On the next page of the Census is another McMaster living in the same Shannon house:

Cheryl has also found the marriage record:

This introduces the name of James McMaster as one of the witnesses.

Further up on the page, I see this couple:

This tells me that the three McMaster sisters, Jane, Mary Ann and Catherine were all living in Vaughan, Ontario at this time.

McMaster’s Everywhere

This set me off looking for William Little and Catharine McMaster in the 1851 Census.:

This is a jackpot of sorts. Here at the bottom of the list is Margaret McMaster who I assume is Catharine’s mother Margaret Frazer and the subject of this Blog. Let’s get Margaret’s birth date. Interestingly, the 1851 Census for Ontario started in January 1852, so I’ll assume Margaret turned 63 in 1852. That would put her birth at 1789. I had guessed that Margaret was born in 1792 and then had pushed it up to 1794. Her daughter Fanny was born in 1829, so she would have been 40 when Fanny was born if Margaret was born in 1789. Charles appears to be the son of Henry and Catherine. Again, we have a few spare McMasters: Margaret and Anna. They appear to have been born in Canada as early as 1840.

Here is Burford where the above McMasters were listed in 1851:

The Bennett family appears to have moved to Milwaukee in 1855:

I am not sure what happened to Margaret McMaster.

Summary and Conclusions

• In this, my 350th Blog on DNA and genealogy, I set out to show by DNA and genealogical evidence that Margaret Frazer, who I now believe to be born about 1789, was the daughter of Michael Frazer born about 1764 and his wife Margaret Stewart.
• My conclusion based on genealogical and DNA inference is that my assumptions were correct.
• However, due to the fact that these were based on inferences, I am still collecting information from Ancestry ThruLines, other DNA evidence and genealogical evidence.
• In order to verify AncestryDNA’s ThruLines, I needed to check the trees of the DNA matches. This included checking the trees of four of the daughters of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. This information gave me enough fodder to create a new Blog on the four McMaster sisters.
• One of the ThruLines patched a tree from a son of William and Margaret McMaster named Robert. I am skeptical of this son as he only appears in one tree and that tree had few references. I have a list of McMaster’s baptized in Kilmactranny at that time and see no Robert. Kilmactranny is where Robert should have been baptized if he was born in Dromore. However, it may be worth checking more on Robert McMaster said to be born in Dromore Sligo in 1823.

 

 

In my last Blog, I looked at ThruLines as they related to Frazer descendants and I Frazer DNA Project I have been working on. I looked specifically at Joanna’s ThruLines. I am so fortunate that she caught an error in one of her ThruLines (and subsequently passed on when I wrote my last Blog).

Fixing Joanna’s Thruline Error From My Last Blog

Here is the error:

 

Joanna points out that she cannot match these descendants of Edward Frazer. That is because the Edward Wynn Frazer born 1842 shown above died as a bachelor:

Here is the correct Edward Wynn Frazer – also shown as one of Joanna’s ThruLines, but a generation later:

That means that Joanna’s 2nd great-grandfather and her great-grandfather both had brothers named Edward Wynn Frazer. I had this right in my Frazer Chart (the part I cut off in my previous Blog).

I’ll add in WG to my chart to make it clear:

I have WG in blue as I don’t believe this person has uploaded to Gedmatch. That also changes these numbers:

I had to change everything but the match initials:

This brings CK and DK into line with WG’s results. Now what is confusing is why WG at 18 cM and DK at 7 cM both had a 12% chance of being a 3C, 1R. Perhaps it is based on a curve that goes down and then up again (or the other way around).

Back to Beverly and Frazer ThruLines

Beverly shows up in the Michael Branch of the James Main Line of Frazer’s:

Beverly’s ThruLines shows a lot of potential ancestors. That is because Beverly’s tree is missing ancestors at her grandparent level. Beverly has her paternal grandmother as a Fraser:

However, the line I am following is Beverly’s maternal grandfather (Shown at ThruLines as a Potential Ancestor):

As a potential ancestor, Beverly’s grandfather Fitzgerald is outlined in dotted lines.

Fortunately Beverly’s grandfather is from Kathy’s tree:

Kathy is someone I recognize from the Frazer DNA Project. That gives me confidence in her tree. I don’t see any DNA matches at this level, so I’ll go up a level.

Still, no DNA matches are kicking in. Another tree has joined the group. However, the Fitzgerald in the ThruLines Tree seems to be the same Fitzgerald that I have on my DNA chart.

Beverly’s 2nd Great-Grandfather Archibald Born 1801

Here is the next level up:

Now we see Ancestry’s computers are working hard. They have three trees and two DNA matches to add proof that Archibald is Beverly’s 2nd great-grandfather. I pull down the arrow on the right next to Beverly’s ‘2 DNA Matches’ to get this:

Now I want to see if Ancestry likes the match numbers Beverly has with Bonnie and Judith:

 

So far, like Joanna, Beverly’s percentages are on the low side. In addition, I know that Gary should be on this Branch also and doesn’t show as a match to Beverly.

This Archibald married Catherine Knott who also shows as Beverly’s 2nd great-grandparent in Thrulines. I checked and Beverly has the same DNA matches at the same levels using the Catherine Knott connection.

Next Up: Beverly’s 3rd Great-Grandfather Michael Frazer

ThruLines show that Archibald had two siblings: Henry P and Margaret Frazer. This siblings had descedants with DNA matches to Beverly. Ancestry is still working hard on this one. I count seven different Ancestry Trees in this visual above. The tree at the top is from Frank. I have Blogged about him previously. However, I don’t have the Henry P Frazer Line on my DNA list. I have been tracking Margaret Frazer as one of my own ancestors, but I haven’t been able to place with certainty where she belongs yet. Ancestry seems to want to put her under Michael Frazer. Another interesting thing is that I have Frank’s line under Michael, but Ancestry doesn’t show that – perhaps because Beverly does not match Frank by DNA. Frank’s tree has him descending from a son of Michael named Fitzgerald Frazer. As an aside, Frank has a DNA match with Joanna who was the topic of my previous Blog. As another aside, Joanna had Margaret Frazer as possibly being a daughter of Michael Frazer in her tree. I asked her to change that to her Archibald Line to see how that effected ThruLines. Her change didn’t make any difference in this ThruLine – at least not yet.

Henry P Frazer

Under the Henry P Frazer Line there are four DNA matches:

These four all have fairly good matches to Beverly. Ancestry uses at 20 cM cutoff for fourth cousin.

Margaret Frazer Born 1794

I notice that this Margaret Branch is listed at the half 4th cousin range. The explanation that comes to mind is that Ancestry thinks that Michael had more than one wife. In the image above, there are three trees represented. Those trees are from Al, Joanna and Keith. Al shows Margaret as the daughter of Michael Frazer and Margaret Stewart:

This could explain the half relationship issue. I thought that I saw a tree that had Michael married to a Mary Stewart. Now I can’t find that. I’ll leave it up to the James Line experts to figure this out. The bottom line is that I think that the half relationships shown for the matches in the Margaret Frazer Branch are wrong. I’ll look at this more in a subsequent Blog.

Here are Beverly’s matches with those descending from the Henry and Margaret Branches:

After the slow start with Bonnie and Judith, these percentages are actually quite high. For example, Mollie’s small 6 cM match is one that would be expected 27% of the time. This particular 6 cM scale tops out at 33%:

I am finding the percentage tables to be very helpful. In the above example, it may not have seemed that 6cM was a good match, but according to Ancestry, it is in this case.

That is of great interest to me as I descend from Margaret also. So, to the extent that we have confidence in Beverly descending from Michael, it would seem that Margaret and her descendants also descend from Michael. That is, assuming also that there are no other connections that we missed. One of the main connections could be through McMaster. However, if Beverly has no McMaster connections, then it would seem more likely that Margaret descends from Michael Frazer.

I’m sure I’ll be returning to the Margaret Frazer topic. Members of my family match Beverly’s match Keith and I wrote a Blog about that here. However, our families’ primary match with Keith appears to be through a closer McMaster Line.

Up To James Frazer of Clerragh

Ah yes, good old Clerragh. Here is Cleragh:

My Frazer’s from the Archibald Line lived in Derrycashel. The next Townland to the North.

Beverly has four DNA matches with descendants believed to be from the Archibald Frazer Branch:

This connection goes quite far out:

Beverly’s 5th cousin once removed connection with Brittney goes beyond Ancestry’s probability chart.

Beverly’s Match Probability Chart

The numbers I am most interested in are the percentages. Beverly started out with low percentages with her third cousins Bonnie and Judith. Those percentages went up going one generation back to descendants of Henry P and Margaret who are believed to be children of Michael. Beverly then gets top scores with other matching at James Frazer born about 1720. This is a sort of inverse relationship. One would think that the closer relatives would be more certain, but this seems to show the further away the relationships go with Beverly, the more certain they are.

Of course, this is all based on the genealogy. If we had decided that Henry P and Margaret had a different father, say Archibald born 1751, then this chart would support that conclusion also.

Michael Line Genealogy

It appears that if I can show a genealogical connection to Michael for Henry Patrick’s descendants or between Michael and Beverly through Archibald born 1801, then that should give a lot of weight for Margaret Frazer being in the Michael Branch.

Is Henry P Frazer the Same as Patrick Frazer?

WE shows he descends from Henry P Frazer. Other trees show a Patrick Frazer. Are these two the same? ThruLines makes the connection.

Here is the tree for WE and RB:

Wejum’s tree stops at Henry P:

Perhaps there is some circumstantial evidence in Henry P’s daughter Margaret Stewart Frazer. Michael’s wife was Margaret Stewart.

Judith’s tree picks up where Wejum’s left off:

It looks like Judith made the connection. Judith probably is using this record:

Michael from our Frazer DNA group (Archibald Line) provided a Parish Register Record from Eastersnow which showed a Michael and Margaret Frazer giving birth to a Patrick late in 1803. There are some more records for Patrick:

If this was the same Patrick, then he would have been a young father of 17. Boyle is about 3-1/2 miles from Eastersnow.

Again, if this is the same Patrick, he would now be 19.

Now the question is whether Jane Lacy and Jane Leary are the same person, or are these two separate couples? Did Jane Leary die and Patrick married Jane Lacy? These births are all in the same Parish.

This Pat and Jane are now in Aghrafinigan if my records are lined up correctly – in the Parish of Ardcarne. Compare this with Joanna’s Tree:

Joanna’s tree references Find a Grave:

In addition, Joanna has this Patrick:

Joanna’s older Patrick probably accounts for the first three births above as an older dad.

Back to Margaret. My point is that the Margaret Stuart born in 1834 in Aghrafinigan and baptized in Ardcarn Parish may be the same person in Wejum’s tree.

Another interesting point is that Wejum has Margaret’s mother as Jane M Frazer. Joanna has Henry Patrick’s wife as Jane Mostyn:

The date looks good. I’m not sure if the location is perfect. More about that later in the Blog.

More on Patrick and Jane Frazer

Here is the family in 1850 in Martinsburg, New York:

All children show as born in New York. I am questioning that is not correct. Later in the Blog I prefer the 1855 Census which shows Margaret born in Ireland.

While I’m In Martinsburg

There were other Irish Frazer’s in Martinsburg. I wrote a Blog mentioning Martinsburg in 2015. Also living in Martinsburg according to the 1855 Census were:

• Mary Frazer daughter of Archibald Frazer and Ann Stinson – married to William Johnston
• Ann Frazer, younger daughter of Mary above married John Hazard 1824 Ardcarn
• Richard Frazer married to Ellen Hassard or Hazard. Richard was baptized at Ardcarn in 1830 and was the brother of my 2nd great-grandfather George Frazer

As Patrick appears to be the first Frazer in Martinsburg, he perhaps lead the way for the other Ardcarn Parish Frazers.

Biography of George H Frazer

There is an 1895 biography of George H Frazer in a publication called Commemorative biographical record of the upper Wisconsin counties of Waupaca, Portage, Wood, Marathon, Lincoln, Oneida, Vilas, Langlade and Shawano. Here is part of that biography:

 

This Biography gives a lot of detailed information about the Henry P Frazer family and confirms that Jane was indeed Jane Mostyn (Moyston in this biography). This also places the Frazer family in New York City in 1844. That means that this may be the same Frazer family in Ward 15 of New York City in 1840:

A Proposed Patrick Frazer Family History

My presumption is that the Patrick Frazer of 1850 Martinsburg, NY was born in 1803 in Eastersnow Parish to Michael Frazer and Margaret Stewart. He married a Jane probably Mostyn probably in 1829 when he was about 25. This is from a marriage licence index from Killala and Achonry which survived the destruction of Irish records:

:

This couple had children. One that was documented was Margaret Stuart Frazer. Margaret was presumably named after her mother Margaret Stuart. Margaret’s gravestone has a birthdate of:

Seven days after Margaret’s birth, she was baptized at the Ardcarn Church in County Roscommon, Ireland. Sometime between 1834 and probably 1840, the Patrick Frazer family moved to New York City.  In 1846, the Frazer family moved to Martinsburg, New York. In 1855 or soon after, Patrick moved to Saginaw, Michigan where he went by Henry:

Henry was listed as ‘At Home’ in the 1870 Census which meant that he wasn’t working. By this time, their daughter Isabella was still living with them. Now even the parents say they were born in New York.

Patrick (or Henry P on his grave stone) died in Saginaw in 1872:

 

I had this mostly figured out in 2015, but I hadn’t fleshed out many of the details. For example, I had mentioned the possibility of two Patricks in 2015. Now, it would seem that this would have to have been the case as Patrick apparently first married in 1829.

Three Generations of Frazers in Martinsburg

Here are three generations of Frazers in Martinsburg, New York:

 

However, note that Mary, Ann and Patrick were about the same age.

Here is Martinsburg:

Martinsburg is fairly remote, so I don’t think it was just coincidence that all these Frazers lived there at one time.

Pro’s and Con’s of Henry P Frazer Being Patrick Frazer of Ardcarn Parish, Roscommon

Pro’s:

• The dates line up
• Margaret Stewart Frazer, daughter of Patrick and Jane appears to be named for Patrick’s mother Margaret Stewart.
• This Margaret seems to be well-documented in the Ardcarn Parish records and in the US.
• The birth date on Margaret’s cemetery stone is very close to the Ardcarn baptism date.
• Henry P. went by Patrick in his early US Census records.
• The Patrick Frazer family appears in Martinsburg with other Frazer families and related Frazer families who originated from Ardcarn Parish, Roscommon.

Con’s:

• I have not seen US records for Henry Patrick Frazer which places him in a specific place in Ireland.
• The marriage of Patrick Frazer to Jane Mostyn was in the Diocese of Killala and Achonry which would be to the Northwest of where many of the Frazer’s lived at the time. Most of the Frazer marriages took place in the Dioces of Elphin. However, this may have refected where Jane Mostyn lived.

Step 2: Beverly’s Genealogy

I feel that I have created a good argument for the Patrick Frazer Branch above. It doesn’t answer all the question, but the story holds together. Next, let’s see if the good DNA matches between Beverly and the Patrick Frazer Branch are supported by Beverly’s link to Michael Frazer. The presumption has been that Beverly does descend from Michael Frazer and Margaret Stewart.

Building a Tree for Beverly

Above, Beverly’s tree has been pieced together, so I’ll create a private one to see if I come up with the same results that Ancestry came up with. The goal is to either connect Beverly to Michael Frazer or to find some evidence that shows that she should not connect with him.  It looks like I had already started a tree a few years ago. I just added a bit now:

One important document is Fitzgerald’s wedding record from 1874:

This give’s Fitzgerald’s age as 30 and his parents as Archibald and Catherine. So far, this is vague evidence. Connaught is quite large and Archibald and Catherine are fairly common names. At this point, I am borrowing on other’s research. Here is the 1851 Census from Ontario:

This appears to show Fitzgerald along with his parents and siblings when he was 10. These names give a lot of circumstantial evidence:

We have a lot of clues here. We have seen what appears to be the Wynne name before. William Wynne may have been named for Archibald’s doctor cousin Wynne who died in Jamaica at a young age. I have already discussed Margaret Stewart as the wife of Michael Frazer. Then there is a Michael Frazer who could have been named for Archibald’s father.

In 1851, this family was in this area of Ontario:

I have also circled Buffalo for my own reference. The youngest, Jane, was 6 and born in Ireland if the 1851 Census is right. That would mean that the family left Ireland between 1845 and 1851.

The Archibald Frazer Family in Arthur, Ontario, 1861

The census shows that between 1851 and 1861, the Frazer families were living in log houses. The 1861 Census is a bit difficult to interpret and read:

In 10 years, the family has grown from 8 to 11. Two Fraser children were born in Canada and there is a person with the last name Reid. This child could have been a daughter (or sister) of William’s wife Rachel. Catherine is now 10 years younger, or Archibald remarried. Here is a larger view of the names:

Archibald and Catherine Back In County Roscommon

This would be the marriage record for Archibald and Catherine Knott:

Catherine was from Kilmactranny in County Sligo and Ardcarn is the Parish to the South but in County Roscommon. Just to confuse things, there was another Archibald Frazer who married a Catherine Parker around this place and time.

Here are records for children of Archibald and Catherine.

This  birth is apparently to Catherine Parker:

This happens in Kilmactranny Parish before the marriage of Catherine Knott.

Here is a similar record:

Next is Catherine:

The question here is which Catherine is which. Is the mother Catherine Parker or Knott? Also does this represent two children named Catherine or the same one?

Here is William:

Just to keep things confusing:

If I ignore William, I do see that there is now James – probably born late in 1836.

My understanding is that these last two were born to sons of Catherine Parker. That means that the James born in 1836 could have been the son of Catherine Knott. That seems to be the last record I have of Catherine Knott in the Ardcarn Parish area. After that, the records refer to Catherine Parker’s family.

The Irish records I have for Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott are scanty and few. But they don’t contradict the records of the Archibald and Catherine family from Wellington County, Ontario.

Back to the Ontario Archibald and Catherine Frazer Family

Here is Michael in 1871 living in Peel:

I like how the Census clarifies that it is only for the living. Michael is a fairly unique Frazer name in Ontario at the time, so is easier than some to track. Michael is also interesting as a major branch of DNA-tested Frazers:

Some Evidence from Jane Frazer

Here is the connection back to Catherine ‘Nott’:

For me, this record seals the deal. I now have confidence that the Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott of Ardcarn and Kilmactranny Parishes are the same as the Archibald and Catherine of Wellington County, Ontario. If I can’t find the original records at Ancestry, sometimes I try FamilySearch:

This shows that Jane ‘Fraser’ was born in Ireland and that her mother was Catherine Nott. I was confused by Jane’s father until I looked down to the line below where he looks to be Arch. Frazer. Here is how FamilySearch has the transcription:

It looks like Ancestry had a different record or interpreted this one correctly somehow.

Where Are We? Sum It Up

1. I corrected my last Blog where one of the ThruLines was inaccurate for Joanna. Joanna is on a parallel Line to Beverly
2. Next, I looked at Beverly’s ThruLines. They can be best summed up in this Chart: 
   
3. I noted that the percentages for both the Henry Patrick and Margaret Branches were good. I reasoned that if I could show by genealogy that the Henry Patrick Line and Beverly’s Line descended from Michael Frazer born 1764, then Margaret should also descend from Michael. This is using a sort of double triangulation based on both DNA and genealogy.
4. I proved to my satisfaction that the Henry Patrick of Martinsburg, NY and Saginaw, Michigan was the same as the Patrick born to Michael Frazer born 1764. I then proved to myself that Beverly’s Ontario Line descended from Archibald born about 1801, also the son of Michael Frazer.

That means that I have established DNA connections as follows:

I left out some of the connections, but this is the main idea. The Margaret Branch is in gray or green. RW is from the Henry Patrick Branch. There were two other matches there but it was easiest to show RW’s descent from Patrick.

More Genealogy – Patrick Henry Line

The Patrick Henry Line is on the right in the chart above. Here is a portion of Beverly’s ThruLines:

 

I have established at least that George Henry Frazer descends from Michael Frazer. What about Mary Gordinier? I don’t recall seeing her name in the 1895 Biography for George H Frazer. I could start from Wejum and work my way up, or start with Mary. I looked again at the 1895 Biography and found Mary at the column split:

Here is Mary in 1855:

She appears to have been born in ‘Green’. There is a Greene, NY, but I don’t know if this is the same place. The 1855 Census shows that Margaret [Stewart] Frazer was born in Ireland. This Census also shows that the family left Ireland on the early side – between 1835 and 1837. This seems to be enough proof to connect Mary on the top side of Wejum’s Tree. Here is a photo  of Mary that someone saved to their tree:

Technically, the ThruLines should show her as Mary Frazer, not Mary Gordinier. Gordinier was actually the name of Mary’s second husband. Wejum descends from Jane Isabella Mushgrove Johnson who was a daughter of Mary and her first husband John Mushgrove. That Jane would be the Jennie in the 1895 Biography.

More Genealogy – Margaret Frazer Line

I don’t believe that it is possible to show through genealogy alone that Margaret Frazer was the daughter of Michael Frazer. That is what I’m trying to show by the DNA and the genealogy for the other Michael branches. However, I’ll strart looking at the lines below Margaret.

Keith and Fanny McMaster

I am a match with Keith – presumably on his McMaster side. I have Keith’s genealogy already on my McMaster web pages:

This shows Keith’s line of descent from James McMaster, but James married Fanny McMaster the daughter of Margaret Frazer.

At this point, I’d like to shut down this Blog and continue later on the Margaret Line as that is a separate issue from Beverly’s ThruLines. I don’t want to take away from the interesting conclusions for Beverly’s genealogy and the genealogy of her other Michael Branch descendants.

Summary and Conclusions

• ThruLines is a great combination of genealogy and DNA
• Ancestry may stitch together trees for the genealogy part. These trees need to be checked for accuracy.
• ThruLines showed that Beverly descends from Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott. ThruLines show that Archibald had a younger brother Henry Patrick whose descendants match Beverly by DNA.
• I was able to convincingly show through genealogy that the Archibald and Patrick Frazer Lines were accurate as shown in ThruLines.
• A key person in Beverly’s Irish-Canadian genealogy was her 2nd great-Aunt, Jane Frazer. Jane’s Ontario marriage record shows her mother as Catherine ‘Nott’. That links Jane’s parents to the Ardcarn and Kilmactranny Parishes on the border of Counties Roscommon and Sligo in Ireland.
•  A key person in the Patrick Frazer Line was his daughter Margaret Stuart Frazer. She had the name of her paternal grandmother Margaret Stuart. I have an Irish baptismal record for her as well as for her father.
• Beverly also matches the DNA of descendants of a Margaret Frazer Line. Margaret was born in the late 1700’s so the birth records do not appear to exist for her. I descend from this line as well as others and would like to continue to look at this line in a subsequent Blog. The goal is to try to show that Margaret also is the daughter of Michael Frazer born about 1764.

 

 

So far, I have run and autocluster for myself and my mother at MyHeritage. Here are some initial comparisons:

After going from my 17 clusters to my mother’s 26, I was surprised to go back to 7 clusters with my sister Heidi:

Maternal/Paternal Phasing

As my mother is at MyHeritage, it should be easy to tell which of Heidi’s clusters are maternal. The ones that are not maternal are likely paternal. For example, the first match in Cluster 1 has no shared matches with my mother and has a shared match with someone on my Irish side. A closer look shows that this may be an over-matched area. I don’t know if these matches are valid as there are so many of them. Most or all of these people match on Chromosome 20.

I went down Heidi’s list of clusters and came up with this:

Heidi only had one maternal cluster and none on the maternal grandmother side. I was unsure about Cluster 4.

Checking Heidi’s Cluster 4

Heidi’s largest match on Cluster 4 was with Sandra:

I associate Chromosome 10 with Hartley-side Massachusetts Colonial DNA matches, but let’s check Heidi’s Chromosome map:

Looks like Heidi has Frazer in that part of her Chromosome 10.

Here is a corrected list:

These Clusters are identified down to the grandparent level. Unfortunately, there are six paternal clusters and one maternal. And only two grandparents are represented.

Brother Jim’s Clusters

I’m having trouble being I’m sure on Heidi’s clusters, so perhaps a look at my brother Jim’s clusters will help.

Jim had one more cluster than my mother. Jim had a whopping 349 clusters that were rejected as there were only two in the cluster. AutoCluster calls these Single Matches.

I was doing alright identifying JIm’s clusters until I got to Cluster 9:

 

I thought that I would use Jim’s Chromosome 15 mapping where he matches Jami from Cluster 9. However, my map for Jim’s Chromosome 15 was erased. I need to create it again. Or I can look at the Blog I wrote on Chromosome 15:

This confirms that Jim has Frazer DNA on his paternal side on all of Chromosome 15.

Now I am half way through:

My method is getting the right grandparent for the DNA group, but not usually finding a common ancestor – especially in the higher numbered clusters.

Here is the full list of clusters identified by grandparent side:

Summary and Conclusions

• I noted a big difference in the clusters of my sister Heidi compared to my brother Jim.
• Heidi had a large Cluster 1 which could be considered an over-matching area or an area that is too ‘matchy’.
• Heidi’s clusters were disappointing with only 2 grandparents represented.
• I identified Jim’s 27 clusters with the help of my mother’s results. This phased the results by maternal or paternal. This would also work for me at FTDNA, but not at 23andMe as my mother did not test there.
• I was then able to check Jim’s Chromosome mapping to identify on which grandparent side the matches were on. This map was created with the help of the Fox Visual Phasing Spreadsheet.
• Identifying beyond the grandparent level was more difficult unless I was familiar with a specific match or mathces within a cluster.
• The clusters for Jim represent matches on many of his chromosomes