Placing AncestryDNA Matches the Michael Frazer Tree with ThruLines

This Blog is a more concise summary of the Blog I wrote here. Ancestry does a good job of trying to connect DNA matches and genealogies using a computer program called ThruLines. This is the right thing to do. However, Ancestry produces its ThruLines with published genealogies which can sometimes be off track or confusing.

Years ago, I saw that some in my family had a fairly large DNA match with a person named BV at Ancestry. Looking into BV’s genealogy, I saw that I matched her on her McMaster side. Here are my brother Jon’s ThruLines:

I found out that my ancestor Margaret Frazer married William McMaster and then moved with her family to Ontario. My 3rd great-grandmother Fanny married in Ireland and stayed behind. It was clear from the DNA that our match to BV was on the James Line of Frazers. That Line had mostly descendants from James Frazer’s sons Archibald Frazer and Michael Frazer. There was also a Patrick Frazer, but I am not aware of DNA matches that I have from this line. From DNA matches to others and from genealogy clues, I reasoned that Margaret was likely the daughter of Michael Frazer and Margaret Stuart.

BK

Ancestry has since added others to the Michael Frazer Tree using ThruLines:

My brother Jon’s ThruLines shows a match to BK on the Michael Frazer Line. I looked into BK’s genealogy and it checked out. It turns out that the Archibald above also moved to Ontario from Ireland. From there, we can track down his descent to BK. Unfornutately, the J.F. in the ThruLines is not correct. He descends from a different Archibald Frazer. But, his Archibald stayed in Ireland. Here is the tree of researcher Joanna (brother of J.F.):

Her ancestors beginning with Edward F Frazer were from Ireland and then later generations moved to England. The ThruLines mix up Archibald Frazer born in 1792 and Archibald Frazer born 1801. So how did Ancestry get this wrong?

More on J.F.

J.F. is placed incorrectly at this time at least on one of my siblings’ ThruLines. I have access to J.F’s sister Joanna’s ThruLines:

Here, of course, Joanna is placed correctly. I am sure that if I had access to J.F.’s ThruLines, he would also show that he is descended from Archibald Frazer born 1792 and not the one born 1801. That means that J.F. is placed incorrectly in one ThruLine and correctly in another. In Ancestry’s defense, there has been a lot of confusion in the various trees and the genealogy does get a bit confusing with many Archibalds Frazer.

A Complicating Factor

Interestingly, here is Joanna’s ThruLines going back to James the father of Michael and Archibald:

James had a daughter named Elizabeth. She marries a Knott and they have a daughter Catherine. Catherine marries Archibald Frazer born 1801 and BK also descends from this ancestry. That makes BK a 5th cousin once removed to Joanna and J.F.

ThruLines for Monica

My sister Heidi shows more ThruLines on the Michael Frazer Line:

ThruLines has Monica under Michael, son of Michael.

Monica’s nephew Kyle is also shown under this branch. When I checked out Monica’s ancestry, I found this (from a previouis ThruLine):

I got Monica back to a Michael Frazer, but he was born in 1810. Before that, I lost track of the genealogy. Assuming the dates are correct, Michael born in 1810 could not be the son of Archibald born in 1801. That means that since I wrote the previous Blog, there appears to be a correction in the ThruLines that reflects the information that I found. Here is a case where, to me, it seems that the same name for the son plus a DNA connection seems to make up for lack of a birth record for Michael Frazer born around 1810.

More on Michael Frazer Born 1810

I find it interesting that Ancestry came up with a logical conclusion that I also came up with. I wonder if there are trees which suggest that Michael born in 1810 was the son of Michael born in 1764. When I go back to my sister Heidi’s ThruLines and click on Michael Frazer born 1810, I get this note:

Here we see that Joanna has added Michael to her tree:

Here is what the other Tree at Ancestry shows:

So based on these two trees, Ancestry changed the ThruLines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Years ago, I discovered a DNA match with a McMaster/Frazer common ancestor. The Frazer was Margaret Stuart Frazer and I placed her by best fit as the daughter of Michael Frazer (who married a Stuart) and who was born about 1764.
  • Since then, there have been more ThruLines for this same Michael Frazer
  • Recently two matches came up: BK and Monica
  • BK is descended from Archibald Frazer (born 1801) who is believed to be the son of Michael Frazer born 1764
  • Monica is descended from a Michael Frazer born 1810. This Michael is likely a later son born to Michael Frazer of 1764
  • I also looked at J.F. who was incorrectly placed in one of my sibling’s ThruLines as descending from Michael of 1764. J.F. and Joanna correctly descend from a different Archibald born 1792 and son of another Archibald (brother of Michael born 1764).
  • Further as my brother Jon matches J.F, the correct ThruLines for for Jon and J.F. would go back to James Frazer who was born about 1720. This is based on genealogy that we are aware of. There may be other connections that we are not aware of.
  • The moral is that ThruLines change and can be incorrect at times, so they have to be studied and interpreted correctly. It is easier to tell the the wrong ThruLines than to prove that one is right. However, proving one is wrong can lead to the likelihood that the ancestor is in a different Line.

 

A Frazer/McMaster DNA Connection with Monica

A while back I noticed this DNA match with a proposed Common Ancestor at Ancestry:

The DNA match is actually with my sister Heidi. Monica also matches my brother Jon by the same amount of cMs. The good thing about the match with Monica is that Heidi and Monica also have recognizable Share Matches:

These Shared DNA Matches also have common ancestors. Jane and Michael match on the Richard Frazer side:

Keith matches on the McMaster side:

As far as I know, Keith has no Frazer genealogy, however, going back there could be Frazer there somewhere. [However, see below for clarification.] Here is another depiction of some of the McMaster connections by genealogy and DNA:

What if the Margery noted at the top of the Chart was a Frazer?

A Theory Gone Wrong

Initially, I had thought that Ancestry’s Common Ancestor of Michael Frazer from the James Line of Frazers should make sense. That is because I believe that our family is more distantly related to the Michael Line through William McMaster and Margaret Frazer who I believe to be the daughter of Michael Frazer. However, my genealogy friend Joanna from Scotland says that the Common Ancestor connection as shown in Ancestry is not right.

Building a Tree for Monica

I’ll try to build out a tree for Monica and see if I come to the same conclusion as Joanna. However, before I do that, I see that my sister Lori also matches Monica at a slightly higher level – 20 cM. She also has a few more Shared DNA matches with Monica:

Rob has no tree and Lawrence’s tree is has only three private people. However, Lori’s Shared Matches with Rob shows this:

The Common Ancestor between Lori and BK shows this:

Interestingly, BK’s own tree deviates from what Ancestry has:

BK has a Jane Cole in his ancestry where Ancestry has Mary Patterson.

Also my note for MT:

This points out that in the ancestry of James Archibald McMaster, there is a McMaster connection. This means that despite what I said above, Keith does actually have Frazer ancestry:

The common ancestor between Keith and my family is Fanny McMaster, but Fanny’s mother was Margaret Frazer.

Back to Monica’s Genealogy

The confusion is that it would fit in well if Monica’s genealogy went back to Michael Frazer. I believe, but have not proven, that Michael Frazer is the father of Margaret Frazer above.

Monica’s tree only goes out two generation on her Frazer side. John Frazer was in the 1940 Census:

A hint is that John’s parents were both born in Schenectady according to that Census. William was a welder at General-Electric.

Here is Schenectady on the Mohawk River. I have panned out as there was also a Poughkeepsie Frazer family living there which caused the confusion.

William Frazer

Here is what findagrave has about William Frazer:

Interestingly findagrave has William born in Glasgow, Delaware. Here is William in 1930:

William was listed as an ‘electric welder’ in 1930. The rest of the family is listed on the previous page:

I don’t see any mention of Deleaware on this Census either. The father Joseph was listed as an invalid. In the 1910 Census, we see that Joseph’s mother was living with them in Saugherties, NY:

She immigrated about 1843?

Saugherties is a little closer to Poughkeepsie than Schenectady.

Joseph Frazer Born about 1862

In 1900, Joseph was a boatman living in Saugherties:

Here is the family in 1880:

This connects well as we last saw Matilda in the 1910 Census. If I read that Census correctly, she had 14 children! In 1880, the family lived in Glasco:

Unfortunately, I have not been doing a good job in identifying the spouses of Frazers:

So there is a Michael in the ancestry of Monica. Michael would be her 2nd great-grandfather.

Here is the 1850 Census for Saugherties:

Here is the next page:

These look to be daughters Margaret and Sarah, both born in New York.

The death record for Michael’s son William gives his mother’s last name as Young:

Findagrave gives a death date for Michael:

Who was Michael’s Father?

I could make some guesses, but first I would like to build out the tree for BK. Remember that Rob was a shared match between Lori and Monica. Then when I chose shared matches between Rob and Lori, I came up with BK. BK showed the same common ancestor at Ancestry:

However between Lori and Monica, I showed that the connection up to Michael Frazer born in 1764 was not right. Here is BK’s tree and point at which it diverges from the connection above:

BK has Myra Ackerman and Ancestry has Mary Patterson. Also not that Myra must have been 13 when she had Homer which doesn’t sound right. Also that Homer has a middle name of Patterson. My thought is that the DNA Matching between Lori, Monica and BK may triangulate. In addition, that means that the three family trees may also triangulate.

A Tree for BK

First, I’ll check to see if I already have a tree for BK. I don’t see any.

Here I have started my own tree for BK, I have indicated in the name of the tree that I am looking for Frazer/McMaster ancestry. Homer Patterson Cooper seems to be the best line to trace at this time. Here is Lois in Pittsburgh in 1920 with her family:

The Census further shows that Homer was born in Pennsylvania, but that both his parents were born in Michigan.

Homer P Cooper Born 1886

We see Homer’s middle name from his World War I Draft Registration:

Here is Homer in 1900:

From this, we learn that the family was in Michigan in 1884. Here is the previous page of the same Census:

The family was also briefly in Ohio. Michigan seems like the right path to follow as I know that some Frazer and McMaster ancestors ended up in Ontario and then went on to Michigan from there. BK also has some Ontario ancestors in his tree.

Joseph Cooper Born 1854 in Michigan

This certainly seems like the marriage record for Joseph:

This record indicates that Joseph was a widower at the time of his marriage in 1878. Here I see the problem. Joseph’s children were by a previous wife. Unfortunately, Ancestry added Myra as the mother to Joseph’s children. I went in and took out Myra as the mother. Here is my Ancestry Fact page on Joseph corrected:

The problem that I see is that it appears that Joseph’s children were born after the 1880 Census. Ancestry gives this hint for Joseph’s first marriage, though the details seem somewhat sketchy:

This would certainly explain the Patterson in Homer’s name. Here is a birth of Annie Maria Cooper in Arthur, Ontario:

Here is Arthur:

The connection to Joseph as blacksmith pretty much tells me I have the right person. The couple married in Mt. Forest which is not too far from Arthur:

Findagrave has more information on Joseph’s birth place:

It looks like we have identified Joseph’s neighborhood:

However, we are really interested in Mary Patterson.

Mary Patterson Born 1855 Ontario

With any luck, we should find Mary Patterson in the 1861 and 1871 Census for Ontario. Before we look there, I see Mary in 1880 in Cleveland, Ohio:

I note that both Joseph and Mary’s parents were born in Ireland. I believe that this is Mary in the 1861 Census for Arthur, Canada:

The Census is difficult to interpret. It appears that there was an extended Paterson family listed – perhpas headed up by John Patterson who was 76. I interpret this to say that Mary’s parents were Anderson and Catherine Patterson – though their last names appear as Patton (perhaps a mistake by the Census-taker? There is a bit of familiarity with Arthur, Canada, as I have looked there before for cionnections.

Patterson/Paton Mystery Solved?

I took to searching my old Blogs to find out what was going on here. I found some answers in a 2019 Blog that I wrote.  Here is what I wrote in that Blog:

Bonnie’s Third Cousin ThruLInes

At this level three additional people are added:

I mentioned Beverly above. Then there are two more people from the Catherine Frazer Line. Bonnie’s tree has Catherine as Catherine Peyton Frazer, but Frazer researcher Joanna points out that the Peyton is not correct as that is from a different Catherine Frazer. Someone added a photo of Catherine Frazer’s daughter Rachel Patton from NO’s ancestry:

LO and NO are from two different lines as Catherine Frazer married a Pattison (aka Patterson) who died. She then married a Patton.

All this to say that Patterson and Paton are both right.

Who Was Catherine Frazer of Ontario?

So far, I have hesitated to add Catherine to my chart of DNA Matches:

This is due to the confusion of who her parents were. It appears that Catherine’s first daughter was Jane:

If Catherine Frazer’s mother was Catherine Knott and she wanted to name her after her mother, then she should have named her Catherine.

Summing Up So Far

  • It appeared from Ancestry, that the common ancestor between Monica and my sister Heidi should be Michael Frazer born in 1764 in Ireland
  • I looked at Monica’s tree and could get her back to a Micael Frazer who was born in 1810 in Ireland and moved to New York State
  • My sister Lori also matches Monica. A shared match between Lori and Monica is Rob. Rob has a shared match with Lori who is BK
  • I got BK’s tree back to Catherine Frazer. I have supposed in the past that this family goes back to Michael Frazer born in 1764 in Ireland.

ThruLines and McMaster/Frazer Charts

I like to write down these DNA matches in charts. These are similar to the Ancestry ThruLines. Here are Lori’s ThruLines going back to Michael Frazer:

Here is some more detail on the Archibald Line:

I have shown above that the connection between BK and Catherine is correct:

Also interesting to note is that assuming I have this right, Michael Frazer bon in 1810 could not be the son of Archibald Frazer born in 1801. That means that Michael born in 1810 could be the son of Michael Frazer born in 1764 or the son of an earlier son of Michael Frazer born in 1764, or from a different line.

Bonnie’s ThruLines

These were not working earlier in the Blog, but now I see them. Joanna tells me that Bonnie does great work on her genealogy:

Here we do not see Edward Wynn Frazer which appears to be correct. How does this compare with my sister Lori’s ThruLines? Both ThruLines have:

  • Margaret Frazer born 1790 (my family is under this line)
  • Mary Frazer born 1798
  • Archicbald Frazer born 1802

I think that Bonnie’s Patrick Henry Frazer born 1803 is the same as the Henry P Frazer born 1804 in Lori’s ThruLines. Lori is missing Fitzgerald Frazer in her ThruLines and I believe that Edward Wynn Frazer in Lori and Bonnie’s ThruLines is wrong.

My James Line Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart

Here is what I have in this area:

I need to add more under the Archibald Line.

Here is the new version:

Here is where I have Edward Wynn on my Chart:

The confusion appears to be that there are two Archibald Frazers. One was born in 1792, son of Archibald, and was of Tullynure. The other was born in 1801, son of Michael, and married Catherine Knott. They were first cousins.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I never placed Monica on the Frazer Tree. She does not descend from Edward Wynn Frazer, but then Edward Wynn does not descend from Michael Frazer. It is likely that Monica descends from Michael Frazer born 1764 as she has an ancestor Michael Frazer born 1810
  • In the process, of looking at Monica’s genealogy, I looked at the genealogy of BK. I added BK to the Michael Line in my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart as well as others from Bonnie’s ThruLines
  • The fact that there were two Archibald Frazers who were first cousins and not born too far apart from each other continues to cause confusion. This genealogical confusion could potentially be sorted out by DNA.
  • It would be interesting to compare the ThruLines of various descendants of the James Frazer Line.

 

Another Frazer Descendant and DNA Match: Christine

One of the good thing of having a network of Frazer relatives who have had their DNA tested is that I get notified when there is a new match. That happened when Jane told me about a new match she had. Here is what Jane sent me:

Jane has a match to Christine as a 3rd cousin once removed. I have access to Jane’s matches and see that Christine matches Jane at 127 cM. That is actually quite a large match for a third cousin once removed:

Ancestry gives that relationship a 2% chance.

Christine and Me

I match Christine at 18 cM:

Ancestry has Christine and me as half 6th cousins. Actually, I think we must be full cousins. I see that from a previous Blog I wrote, I had identified this line:

This line is from Australia.

My ThruLines at Ancestry

My ThruLines show Christine:

This image also has Jane and Suzanne who I don’t have on my chart. I don’t have Alan on my ThruLines, but he is probably there due to a match to someone else on the Chart.

Christine’s Genealogy

I don’t have any reason to doubt Christine’s genealogy, but I will take a look at it. All the Ancestry trees have Beatrice Frazer as Christine’s grandmother:

I have not done thorough research on this line, but Beatrice’s middle name Honora could come from her grandmother Honora White. Here is a gravestone inscription:

This inscription is from Boroondara, near Melbourne:

Here is Christine added to my Chart:

I have four of my siblings tested at Ancestry. Only one of the four matches Christine. This makes sense as a 6th cousin is quite a distant relationship.

My Match with Suzzanne

It turns out I already wrote a Blog on Suzzanne about a year and a half ago.  The reason I didn’t see her is that I had placed Suzzanne here – on the Richard Frazer Line:

This diagram is meant to indicate that Suzzanne and I have a common ancestor in Rebecca above. This shows that Suzzanne and I are actually 5th cousins – not 6th cousins. I am on the Richard Line because of Violet Frazer. I have that she married her first cousin James Frazer. James Frazer is on the ThruLines but that puts us out another generation. I suppose that I am related to Suzzanne as both 5th and 6th cousin – due to my 1st cousin ancestors: James and Violet Frazer.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Christine is my 6th cousin, so a DNA match at level is somewhat rare. According to FTDNA, I should have a less than 2% chance of matching Christine by DNA.
  • Some of our ancestors married each other’s families which may account for the match.
  • As this is such a distant match, it would be interesting to see on which chromosome Christine and I (and other Frazers) match.
  • I didn’t do a full genealogical analysis of Christine’s tree, but it seems clear that due to a large DNA match with cousin Jane (127 cM), that the genealogy is correct.

 

A New YDNA Match to the Frazers of North Roscommon

I was notified by two Frazer relatives recently of a new match to the Frazers who have had their YDNA tested. YDNA is the best test for paternal lines because it specializes in only testing the DNA that males pass down from father to son – all the way back from genetic Adam.

I am not a Frazer, but I am interested in Frazer YDNA because my grandmother was a Frazer, so I had my 2nd cousin once removed Paul tested.

Barker Match to My 2nd Cousin Paul

Here are the list of STR matches at the 111 level that my cousin Paul has:

Barker is the third match to my cousin Paul, but really is tied for second at 4 steps away. Barker took the 111 STR test but not the BigY test.

A Frazer BigY Tree

Based on BigY testing and known or supsected genealogy, I came up with a Haplogroup tree:

The overall North Roscommon Frazer Haplogroup is FT421618. Apparently Dingman knew that his grandfather was actually a Frazer. We believe that he descends from Archibald Frazer from around 1743 and that he also has the North Roscommon heritage identified by FT421618. Next is my cousin Paul and Rick. They are on the overall Archibald Branch (2nd generation from the top) and they are designated as Y85652. From the tree above, this was a new SNP that appeared in either James Frazer or his father Philip. On the right above is the James Frazer Branch identified as Y151390. Both Rodney and Jonathan are in this branch. Y151390 developed in one of the four generations between Thomas Henry Frazer and James Frazer born around 1720.

A Frazer STR Tree

A STR tree is difficult to make due to parallel mutations and back mutations of STRs. However, this is somewhat offset as the BigY test has been taken. That provides a framework for the tree.

In this tree, I brought in a Frazier. He tested, but does not know his genealogy past colonial America. That puts him in a more distant group – going back to Scotland perhaps. The way I have this drawn, Jonathan has the STR profile that is closest to the ancestral Frazer. At Ancestry, here is the Block tree:

Above, the “Your branch” refers to my cousin Paul. The Block Tree looks at the world of SNPs and Barker has tested STRs. Hopefully, Barker will take the BigY test to place him in the group also.

How Does Barker Fit In?

Barker is clearly in the Frazer lineage. Further he is most certainly from the James Frazer (born about 1720) half of the Frazer Tree. Barker matches Jonathan perfectly:

However, perfectly may not always be perfect. That is because of the parallel mutations and back mutations of STRs which I mentioned earlier.  The CDY STR which defines the James Frazer Line is a fast moving STR. That means that Barker’s CDY could have mutated independently of Jonathan’s and Rodney’s line ancestor. However, let’s assume that didn’t happen.

Still the CDY mutation could have happened anywhere between James Frazer born around 1720 and Thomas Henry Frazer born in 1843:

Now the James Frazer in the Tree above was thought to be born around 1720. I believe that the Archibald Frazer with the red DYS710=34 value was of the next generation or from about 1743. If that is the case, it is theoretically possible that the match could even be on the Archibald (1715) side of the tree. However, so far based on the autosomal results so far, that does not seem to be the case.

We know that Barker does not have the same STR that defines Rodney’s branch. That STR is DYS552=24. That means that Barker, based on STRs descends from anyone between James Frazer born about 1720 and Edward Fitzgerald Frazer born 1867. As my understanding is that the father for Barker’s grandfather born in 1901 is unknown. That would make Edward Fitzgerald Frazer the latest possible ancestor of Barker. However, it appears that the autosomal results (see below) are too low for Barker to descend from Edward Fitzgerald Frazer.

Autosomal Results

Right now, we don’t have autosomal results for Barker, but we have some for his nephew. Barker’s grandfather was born in 1901, so he would be probably one generation removed from Rodney and Jonathan and Barker’s nephew would be two generations removed.

Here is a chart I have made up of those who have tested autosomal DNA from the James Frazer Line:

Not all these people have tested at the same company including Barker’s nephew. However, Barker did test at Ancestry which has the largest database, so that is good. At Ancestry, Barker’s nephew matches Madeline, Janet and Jonathan. There may be additional matches.

There are two major sides of the James Frazer Branch. They are the Archibald and Michael sides. From what we know so far from Ancestry, it appears that Barker’s nephew matches on the Archibald side.

Barker’s nephew matches:

  • Madeline at 17 cM
  • Janet and Jonathan at 14 cM

Ancestry usually considers 20 cM to be the cutoff for a 4th cousin, so this match may be a further out level than fourth cousin.

One guess that I had was that Barker may descend from the Edward Frazer Branch on the right side of the chart above. He was the one who married Mary Kirkwood. However, that branch is not well-represented by DNA testing or may just not be a prolific branch. The reason that I chose that branch is that Barker’s nephew matches people from the Archibald Frazer (born abour 1792) Branch at about the same rate. That could mean that Barker could be from a parallel branch. Edward Frazer is a parallel branch to Archibald Frazer.

Next Steps

Next, we can wait for any additional autosomal testing or BigY YDNA testing on Barker’s side.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Based on YDNA testing, It appears that Barker must descend from a North Roscommon Frazer historically
  • Futhermore, Barker appears to descend from the James Frazer (born about 1720) Line of these Frazers.
  • Based on Frazer YDNA tester Rodney, Barker does not descend from Rodney’s ancestor William Frazer
  • Based on autosomal testing of Barker’s nephew, it appears that Barker could be a third to fifth cousin once removed to Jonathan and Rodney. That would have him descending from James Frazer born around 1720, his son Archibald Frazer born 1751 or James’ grandson Archibald Frazer born abut 1792
  • More DNA testing should clarify Barker’s place in the Frazer genealogical tree.

My Frazer Cousin John at Ancestry

I have had a DNA match with John for a while at Ancestry, but haven’t figured out the connection until today. Here is the match:

 

John does not have a searchable tree. However, note that John’s test is managed by Dawn. She has a tree and in that tree, her husband John descends from a Frazer.

This is an easy connection, because I know who Hubert Frazer was:

Hubert was my great-grandfather’s younger brother:

My great-grandfather James Archibald Frazer is sitting down on the left. Hubert is standing on the right. James was about 11 yeaers older than Hubert.

Here, I’ll just add in John to my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree:

Assuming I have the right John, he is Paul’s first cousin. I had Paul’s DNA sent to FTDNA where he was tested for YDNA which is the male Frazer line. That makes John my second cousin once removed. This is a big discovery, because, as Paul was tested at FTDNA, John is a good representative of this line of Frazers at Ancestry where there are many more matches than at other testing companies.

My Shared DNA Match with John

My last Shared DNA Match with John is with Dianna. Dianna has a basic tree:

The top part of the tree is Belgian and the bottom favors Ontario. As I have traced one part of my ancestry to Ontario, that would be the place to look first.

Building Out a Tree for Dianna

Turns out that there is a marriage record for Abraham Brandon which is helpful:

This brings us back a generation:

Dianna’s ancestors got added as living, so I need to change that. The death record for Kathleen (or Catherine) gives her parents’ names:

This record mentions Ireland, so that puts us in the right part of the World. This is as far as I got with Dianna’s tree:

Many of these ancestors seemed to be from Northern Ireland. I was getting to the point of diminishing returns, so I may come back to this tree later.

Shared Matches Between John and My Siblings

Shared matches between John and my siblings may give more clues. On one sibling’s shared matches, I saw a Johnston in a tree. I don’t know if I am related, but Johnstons did marry Frazers in the area of Ireland where my Frazers came from.

My sister Lori has a much larger DNA match with John compared to me. Lori matches John at 95 cM. Lori shares a match with John and Glen. Ancestry shows that Glen has two Frazers in his direct ancestry:

That saves me building out Glen’s tree. Glen has Maggie from Scotland and Australia:

Here is what I have in my tree:

This Richard Frazer was born in Ireland and died in Glasgow. Glen’s Maggie was from Glasgow. Glen and I share a DNA match with Jane. Here is Jane on my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart:

I got in touch with Jane and she has that Margaret Frazer was the daughter of Archibald Frazer and Winifred Conlon. That came out as Winifred Collins on Margaret’s death certificate. This record is from Jane’s tree:

Also from Jane, here is Margaret’s baptismal record:

I’ll add Glen to my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree:

That brings us out to 5th cousins through Richard Frazer and an unknown wife.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was glad to figure out a Frazer match based on the tree of his administrator.
  • That gives me a hint to try other matches I’m not aware of based on the administrator’s tree
  • Checking into shared DNA matches is always a good idea as it may bring up new connections
  • John fills in a gap in my DNA/Genealogy tree – especially with respect to AncestryDNA matches as I tested his first cousin at FTDNA.
  • Thanks to imput from Cousin Jane, I was able to add my 5th cousin Glen (and shared match with John) to my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart.

My Frazer Relative and DNA Match Faye

I check my AncestryDNA matches from time to time and find a lot of matches, but not a lot of matches where I can connect the genealogy. With Faye, I was able to do both. Faye matches me on 5 segments and 59 cM at AncestryDNA. Faye was nice enough to answer my message at Ancestry and it was not too long before we figured out the connection. Here is how the connection looks like at Ancestry:

Here is Faye’s great-grandmother Susan:

Susan is the one with the light colored dress on the right. My great-grandfather James Archibald Frazer had gone to Boston by this time with some of his brothers. In fact, if I have my dates right, James came to Boston on  October 8, 1887 and Susan was born October 27, 1887. I don’t know if the two ever met.

Faye’s DNA Matches at Ancestry

Faye has shared matches with my four siblings who have tested at AncestryDNA. She also matches my daughter but not my son as a shared match. In order to have a shared match, you must have a match of at least 20cM. My son matches Faye by 16cM.

Rebecca

Rebecca matches both me and Faye. Rebecca is also a third cousin with Faye and myself:

This is a tree of people who descend from George Frazer and Margaret McMaster who have taken DNA tests. I recently added Faye to the chart as the first match that I know about who descends from Susan Jane Frazer. Also, I wrote a Blog on Rebecca here and she has different ways that she descends from the McMaster family.

Whitney and Stephen

Whitney descends from Richard Frazer and is a 3rd cousin once removed. There is also a Stephen who must be from the same line aslo, but he doesn’t have his family tree at Ancestry, so I’m not sure exactly how he fits in.

Michael

Michael is a shared match between Faye and some of my siblings at Ancestry. Michael is a Frazer relative going back two generations:

 

Michael is a 4th cousin once removed to Faye and my family. I haven’t added Faye onto this tree yet. The relationships are complicated as Violet Frazer above married James Frazer from what I can figure out.

Faye and Gedmatch

Faye uploaded her DNA results from AncestryDNA to Gedmatch. This is important because AncestryDNA, unlike most other DNA testing companies, does not provide a Chromosome Browser. Here is how Faye matches me at Gedmatch:

This may not look too exciting, but it shows on which Chromosomes Faye and I match, where on each chromosome we match (by position) and gives an amount that we match in Centimorgans.

My Match with Faye at DNAPainter

It is easier to see the matches using DNA Painter. Here is what my DNA Painter map looks like right now:

The paternal copy of each chromosome is on the top and maternal on the bottom. The matches with Frazer/McMaster are in a sort of maroon color. I was able to split the DNA out for this couple in a few cases, so I have individual listings for the couple also. Overall, I am 51% painted or mapped.

Here is my paternal side where I am 58% mapped:

Note that I have nothing mapped on the X Chromosome as men don’t get any X Chromosome from their paternal side.

I can drill down one more layer to the maroon Frazer/McMaster level:

This shows I have some DNA matches on 10 of my 22 Chromosomes. These are from 6 third cousin level matches. Now recall above, that Faye matched me on Chromosomes 1, 6, 18 and 19. That means that her match with me on Chromosome 18 is new.

Next, I’ll add Faye to the mix. Faye brings up my mapped percentages by 1% on my paternal side and overall.

Chromosome 1

I don’t have much room for Frazer DNA due to my inheritance of a lot of Hartley DNA on this Chromosome. Faye ovelaps with Susan and Katherine here. These matches can also be represented this way:

This represents triangulated matches. That means that the DNA from this portion of our Chromosomes 1 came from either George Frazer or Margaret McMaster. However, without other matches further back, we don’t know from which person the DNA came from.

Chromosome 6

Chromosome 6 gives some more information:

Because Brenda overlapped with Doreen and Ken and the match with Doreen and Ken go back to the Frazer side one generation before George Frazer, that means that the DNA from Brenda and Stan came from George Frazer. I changed the color for Brenda’s match, but didn’t bother for Stan. Faye’s DNA match with me doesn’t appear to overlap my match with Doreen and Ken, but it overlaps with Brenda’s match, so that DNA is probably from George Frazer also.

Chromosome 18

Here is where Faye adds the most to where I had missing information:

Faye adds a chunk of DNA to the right of Emily, Gladys, Doreen and Susan. Again, I assigned Emily’s match to George Frazer due to the blue matches of a generation earlier. Faye may represent what I call a crossover here. That is what I give to the phenomenon when ancestral DNA crossover over from one ancestor to the spouse of that ancestor. We know the yellow match represents George Frazer, so Faye’s match with me may represent Margaret McMaster. This could be confirmed if we find more McMaster matches with Faye in that region where I match her.

Chromosome 19

Chromosome 19 is also a little difficult to interpret for Faye’s match with me:

Keith has McMaster DNA, so the match with Susan is for Magaret McMaster. The match with BV is complicated as there is a McMaster and Frazer side. However, I know where the McMaster side fits in, so the match with Emily is probably Margaret Mcmaster. I can’t tell which side Faye’s match is on.

Faye and Heidi

I administer different DNA kits at Gedmatch. One is for my sister Heidi. Here is how Faye matches Heidi:

Faye’s estimated number of generations to MRCA is 3.8. The actual is 4.0 generations, so she shares a bit more DNA with Heidi than average. I’ll add Faye onto Heidi’s DNAPainter Map:

I haven’t been as diligent in mapping Heidi’s DNA as I have with my own. Faye upped Heidi’s over all and paternal percentages by 1% also to 36 and 43%. Faye adds new information to Chromosomes 15, 18 and 19:

On Chromosome 15, Faye points out a crossover in Heidi’s DNA:

This is the crossover between yellow Frazer and blue Hartley or the crossover between my Frazer grandmother and Hartley grandfather.

Faye and Paul

Faye’s third largest match at Gedmatch is with her (and my) 2nd cousin once removed Paul. I also manage Paul’s DNA kit. Here is the match:

The estimated number of generations to Paul and Faye’s common ancestors are 3.6. That means that Faye and Paul share slightly less DNA than expected for 2nd cousins once removed. I have only mapped out Paul’s paternal side. And I am only interested in half of his paternal side:

Paul is 23% mapped right now. George Frazer and Margaret McMaster are in green on his map. Adding Faye brings Paul up to 25% mapped on his paternal side:

Faye’s contributions to new Frazer DNA matching for Paul are on their Chromosomes 6 and 8. Faye’s DNA under Susan and Doreen is from George Frazer. Faye’s other Chromosome 8 match to Paul may be McMaster DNA due to the crossover effect I mentioned earlier.

Faye and Michael

One chunk of DNA came down from one of the common ancestors between Michael and Faye:

Here is the connection from the viewpoint of Michael:

We don’t really know when Richard Frazer was born, but we think that it was around the year 1777. We also don’t know the name of his wife. One guess from Ancestry is Mary Patterson.

Faye and Stephen – McMaster Side

I match Stephen who tested at 23andMe. He also uploaded to Gedmatch at my request.

I am related to Stephen as a 5th cousin – which is quite distant. I am more closely related to Keith, but I think that his results are no longer at Gedmatch. Faye would be in the same bottom row as Stephen and me, but I have not added her in yet. Here is Stephen’s match with Faye:

On my Paternal side Chromosome 13, I inherited Hartley DNA and not Frazer. However, my sister Lori inherited some Frazer DNA on her Chromosome 13:

Here Lori has Hartley DNA in blue, then Frazer side in green and pink, then more Hartley hidden by the Key. Now Lori and my family are related to Stephen and Ronald more closely on the Clarke side, but more distantly on the McMaster side. I should have changed Lori’s pink matches to red. Also Emily is not related on the Clarke side. The area where Ronald and Stephen match Lori and the area where Faye matches Stephen start at about the same location.

I’ll just change Ronald and Stephen to red on Lori’s Chromosome 13 and add Faye to Lori’s map.

Also, technically, I could change the green matches for Emily and Faye, as I now know that DNA came specifically from Margaret McMaster. I note that there is something stopping the matches for Lori on the right side of Faye, Ronald and Stephen. This could be a crossover where her inherited DNA goes from Frazer to Hartley.

Emily and Faye

Gedmatch has a free uitility called People who match both kits, or 1 of 2 kits. When I run this between Emily and Faye I get a list of common matches:

Heather at the bottom of the list that I copied didn’t sound familiar. That is because she is a match on Chromosome 13 where I don’t have Frazer DNA, but my sister Lori does.

Margery is the one I have as the wiffe of Abraham McMaster. This match goes back to the 1700’s. Faye has a good match with Heather at Gedmatch:

Here is how the ThruLines look at Ancestry:

It’s a little messed up as it has James McMaster twice. Faye is under the second James for Lori’s ThruLines:

There are many more comparisons that could have been made. Here is a list of Frazer relatives I am tracking (mostly) at Gedmatch:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I could have done much more analysis on Faye’s DNA using Tier One Tools, but I would have to sign up at $10 a month.
  • Between AncestryDNA and Gedmatch, you can do a lot with your DNA test.
  • Ancestry’s ThruLines are not always perfect as they are based on imperfect trees. However, they often give confirmation of tree that you may not be sure of due to the age of the genealogy and scarceness of records.
  • I was glad to hear from Faye and find out why her family left County Roscommon

My New Clarke/McMaster DNA Match at 23andMe

I get notifications from time to time from 23andMe about new DNA matches and I don’t usually know how we match up. Recently I had such a notice of a potential 3rd cousin and I did know how we match.

How Zoë and I Match by Genealogy on the Clarke Side

Zoë and I match by McMaster and I later found out Clarke. I’ll start with the Clarke side. This is the tree that I have so far of DNA relatives on my Clarke side:

Zoë descends from Catherine Clarke and William McMaster on the right side of the tree where I am. It turns out that this is an important DNA match, as I have one DNA match on that side who is Melissa. However, she tested at Ancestry which does not show detailed DNA information like 23andMe does. Zoë  tells me that Violet McMaster is a many times great grandmother to her, so I’ll build down her tree from there.

From what I can figure out this is how we connect:

So it turns out that we are third cousins, but it looks like third cousins twice removed. Our common ancestors are Thomas Clarke and Jane Spratt. When I look at my common DNA relatives with Zoë, Stephen shows up from the left side of the tree. He tested at 23andMe also. Ron from the left side of the tree shows up at MyHeritage.

These two are Zoë’s ancestors William McMaster and Catherine Clarke:

Probably taken around 1882. Reverse of picture indicates that they were engaged “about 1881” and married October 5, 1882.

How Zoë and I Match by McMaster Tree

Here is my existing McMaster DNA Tree:

This tree is larger and needs a road map. I don’t need the left side of this tree for Zoë. The left side of the tree is for a branch of the McMaster family that ended up in Canada. The down arrow is where I need to add Zoë’s ancestor William McMaster.

Zoë and I are at opposite ends of this DNA McMaster tree. We appear to be 4th cousins once removed. Our common ancestors are Fanny McMaster and James McMaster. That means that I am related to Zoë by four ancestors and three out of those four ancestors are McMasters.

Adding Zoë to My DNA Painter Profile

This is my DNA map of known matches:

This shows that I have identified 51% of the available spaces on the two copies of my chromosomes (paternal and maternal). Here is my paternal side where I match Zoë:

On this side I am 57% painted or identified. I’ve checked ahead and saw that Zoë adds new information to this map. That is probably because she represents a new relative on my family trees also.

Here is how I match Zoë at 23andMe:

We match on Chromosomes 3 and 17 and twice on Chromosome 7. the question now is which DNA goes with which pair of ancestors? Chances are slightly higher that I match Zoë by Clarke and McMaster than the second McMaster and McMaster relationship. It is also possible that each of the four DNA segments could represent one of our four common ancestors. The easiest way to identify all the DNA would be to create a new category on my DNA map called Clarke 1823 or Mcmaster 1829.

Here is how Zoë shows up on my Chromosome Map on Chromosomes 3 and 7:

On Chromosome 3, Zoë is a new match. On Chromosome 7, she overlaps with Ron. On Chromosome 3, my match with Zoë has no overlap with other matches. Here is my phased map of Chromosome 3:

This is the portion of my Chromosome I got from my Frazer grandmother shown by the red arrow above. She is the one with Clarke and McMaster ancestors. So it would make sense that I would match Zoë on the right side of the paternal copy of Chromosome 3.

On Chromosome 7, I match Zoë in two areas that are close to each other. The first segment overlaps with a match with Ron. Ron also has Clarke and McMaster Ancestry. It is my guess that that segment triangulates between Zoë, Ron and me:

One More Scenario and Another McMaster Tree

Ron is also related to Zoë and me on the McMaster side, but that brings up another McMaster tree:

I must have planned on meeting Zoë or one of her relatives as I left a space (outlined in an orange box). Here I have added in Zoë:

This connection goes back 7 generations for Zoë. So while this connection is less likely than the Clarke connection, it is still a possible connection. I have a quick fix:

I added 1764 to the possible place that this DNA could have come from. Even that designation is not totally correct as the triangulated  match with Ron could not be from the McMaster born in 1829. Even these designations are simplifications as the DNA could have come from the wives of these two McMasters and one Clarke.

Finally Chromosome 17

Zoë’s match is interesting here:

 

The place where the DNA changes from Barry to Zoe appears to indicate an old crossover from Barry. A crossover is where your DNA changes from one family to another. The simple explanation woudl be that this is a crossover from the Frazer DNA I got from Barry to the Clarke DNA that I got represented from the match with Zoë.

Here is where that split appears in my tree (see above). With the addition of Zoë’s matches:

That put me up 1% on the paternal side. Overall, I am still at 51% ‘painted’.

Summary and Conclusions

  • The ancestors that Zoë and I share belonged to the minority Church of Ireland in  Roman Catholic Ireland. They tended to marry within their faith, but that resulted in the intermarriage of lines.
  • The Clarke line was not related to McMaster as far as I know in Ireland. However, one Clarke sister married a McMaster in Boston (Zoë’s ancestors) and another Clarke sister married that McMaster’s nephew who was a Frazer (my ancestors).
  • I mapped out the different relationships in one Clarke tree and two McMaster trees
  • Due to the relationships involved, the assigning of the DNA to a patricular couple was not easy. There were a possible three couples that this DNA could represent except for the case where the DNA overlapped with Ron. In that case, the DNA could only be from a possible two couples.

 

Looking at AncestryDNA Match Jeff on the Frazer Line

I match Jeff at AncestryDNA by a small amount of DNA (8 cM).

Ancestry shows we have a common ancestor in James Frazer going back to about 1804. Here is the maternal side of Jeff’s tree where Ancestry thinks we should match up:

There appears to be a discrpancy already as Ancestry has Phylis Bowman and Jeff’s tree has Phylis Anderson. That is apparently from this Ancestry Tree which has Phylis married to a Kenneth Anderson presumably before or after she married Keith Huckle.

Adding a Suggested Frazer to Jeff’s Tree

Ancestry suggested that Teresa Frazer was the mother of Philis Bowman, so I added her in:

There are hints for Teresa. A good one is her marriage record:

This 1921 record has lots of information on it. Now the tree looks like this:

It is tempting to accept the hints, but I won’t unless I have to.  This appears to be the family in 1901 in Kinloss, Ontario:

However, if that is the case, Susan M must be the same as Teresa or Tressia May.

John Frazer Born in Ontario

Here is John in 1881 in Kinloss, Ontario – apparently with his parents:

Here, John’s father William says he was from Scotland and his mother from Ireland. This tells me also tha John married later in life.

William Frazer

William Frazer is a critical connection in Ancestry’s common ancestor depiction. That common ancestor tree has William as the son of James Frazer born in 1819. Here are the children I have for James Frazer and Violet Frazer:

If William was born in 1819, then Violet would have been 16 at his birth. I had that this couple was married on 23 January 1828. This tells me that there is something wrong with Ancestry common ancestry tree. Nonetheless, here is an interesting story of William’s life from Findagrave.com from 1884:

Other DNA Matches to Jeff?

At this point, it would be interesting to see if others have DNA matches to Jeff. I was unable to find any with my four siblings who have tested at Ancestry. I would say that, based on no other DNA matches and problems connecting the genealogy, that something is wrong with Ancestry’s common ancestor tree.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It appears that, although I have a small DNA match to Jeff, that match is not through my ancestors James Frazer and Violet Frazer.
  • It would have saved time if I had started with James and Violet Frazer and looked at the proposed connection to William.
  • I now know more about Jeff’s ancestry than I need to know!

 

 

An Update on Stan’s Frazer DNA at 23andMe

Last year I wrote a Blog about Stan. Here is how Stan and I are related:

Stan and I are second cousins once removed. At the time that I wrote the Blog, Stan did not have the option to share his DNA. He has since changed that and I can see how much DNA we share with each other:

This shows that we share a total of 53 cM on three different chromosomes. Here is how that works out between my match with Stan and his sister Brenda:

This shows that Brenda matches me a bit on Chromosome 5 where Stan doesn’t and that Stan matches me on Chromosome 10 where Brenda doesn’t.

Painting Stan

I use a utility to paint my DNA matches onto my chromosomes. The DNA that Stan and I share either came from George William Frazer born around 1838 or his wife Margaret McMaster. The DNA that I am most interrested in is on Chromosome 10:

On the right hand side, Stan fills in a missing gap. Here is the key:

In general, the maroon is DNA from my Frazer grandmother. The green is the DNA from my Hartley grandfather. They were married. However, the right side shows more detail. The red match on the right with Michael goes back another 2 generations:

Now this gets into how much we want to assume. Unfortunately, I don’t have a wife’s name for Richard Frazer at the top. However, we know that his daughter was Violet Frazer. She married James Frazer who we believe to be Violet’s first cousin. That means that for me, this red DNA would have come from Violet Frazer. Then before that, it either came from Richard Frazer or his unknown wife – we don’t know which.

Then at the very end of Chromosome 10, I have a match with Ron. That is a match on my Clarke side. Clarke is believed to be unrelated to Frazer, but married my Frazer great-grandfather.

So how does Stan fit in? It is possible that Stan and I share the DNA from James Frazer. He married Violet Frazer and was his first cousin. Confusing, isnt’ it? However, this is interesting to me as the James Frazer genealogy is more difficult to document than the Violet Frazer side. I believe that the father of James Frazer was Philip Frazer. I will keep that in mind in case I find another descendant of Philip Frazer who matches in that same segment of Chromosome 10. The reason why I think that Stan’s DNA may come from Violet’s husband James is because there is no overlap with the DNA that came from Violet.

How Much Am I Painted?

I don’t know if Stan’s DNA match brought my numers up, but here are the current numbers:

It would be nice to be up to 50% identified. To do this I will likely need to find more maternal DNA matches. Here is the percentage of my paternal paintedness:

Stan matches me on my paternal side.

Chromosome 6

Here is just the beginning of Chromosome 6 where I match Stan:

Brenda and Stan overlap with Ken and Doreen. Ken and Doreen descend from the brother of my 2nd great-grandfather. That means that the DNA that Stan and I share must come from my 2nd great-grandfather who was George Wiliam Frazer born about 1838.

 Chromosome 7

Here I have the whole Chromosome represented. Stan shares DNA with Marilee. One great thing about DNA Painter is that it can handle matches with different companies. Marilee tested at MyHeritage and Stan at 23andMe:

That means that Stan and I likely share DNA from Violet Frazer on Chromosome 7.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Thanks to Stan sharing his DNA at 23andMe, I can see where I specifically match him, that is on which chromosome and on which part of which chromosome
  • The placement of the matches is important because they represent different ancestors. In this case, the different ancestors are likely different branches of the Frazer family. This is because my third great-grandfather who was a Frazer apparently married his first cousin who was also a Frazer.
  • Stan’s DNA match with me helps confirm both my Violet Frazer genealogy which seems more solid and my Philip to James Frazer genealogy which is more shaky.

A New Frazer DNA Match for Jane at Ancestry

I had an email from Jane recently about a new Frazer match she had. Jane’s match is with JD. His tree is private but searchable. That means that Ancestry can figure out likely common ancestors with his tree even though it is private. Here is how Jane and JD probably match up:

The Archibald above is from what I call the Stinson Line:

Archibald Frazer and Ann Stinson had other children, but I only show one who was another Archibald who married Catherine Parker.

Evaluating JD’s Tree

Ancestry suggests I evaluate JD’s tree, so I will. I created a tree for JD. I assume that he knows who his mother is. I have to further assume that the connection is on his mother’s side. In 1940, JD’s mother Mary was living in Bridgeport, Connecticut:

From here, we need to get the family back to Alexander Frazer who lived in County Roscommon, Ireland. So far, JD’s maternal side is checking out:

Carrie or Katherine?

Here is the 1920 Census for Bridgeport:

The one I have as Katherine in the tree appears to be Carrie. Her mother (also Carrie) is from Irish and speaks Irish. The 1900 Census has Carrie the mother immigrating in 1890, born in Ireland to parents who were born in Scotland. I seem to recall from Jane that her ancestors did move to Scotland and then back to Ireland, so this Census makes sense.

ThruLines for Jane

I see that Jane has many matches to the children of Alexand Frazer:

JD is right in the middle along with descendants of five of the children of Alexander Frazer. This seems to fill in where some of the records are missing for Carrie Frazer Ember. I like these ThruLines as they tie together many families in one image. Here is what I have for children of Alexander Frazer:

Apparently Alexander Frazer had 12 children.

Actually, I now see the marriage record for Charles Ember and Caroline Frazer after searching some at Ancestry:

This is the passenger record for Caroline from the Ellis Island records:

I found this once I typed in Fraser instead of Frazer in my search. What makes me sure about this record is that Thomas John Frazer, her older brother, is listed on the passenger record above her. Ancestry has some more information:

Adding JD to the Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree

Here I have Anne Caroline born 1868 which is probably more accurate than Jane’s ThruLines show.

Adding in Jennifer

I still have one person missing from Jane’s ThruLines. This is Jennifer:

She descends from Elizabeth or Eliza Jane Frazer. I won’t go through the genealogy, as I think the genealogy is OK.

That now accounts for DNA matching of the descendants of six of the children of Alexander Frazer. Turns out that Jane also matches Jennifer’s father Larry by DNA. Apparently many of the children of Alexander Frazer settled in Connecticut Including Eliza Jane Frazer.

Jane doesn’t match Brenda by DNA. So the match must have been to someone else. Brenda descends from the older brother of Anne Caroline who was Thomas John Frazer. These two travelled to the US together as mentioned above.

Summary and Conclusions

  • DNA matches and ThruLines help in checking on genealogical lines. Because there are matches, it means that the records must be there to support the genealogy.
  • I was able to find the interesting shipping record for Carrie (Anne Caroline Frazer) and her older brother Thomas Joyn Frazer.
  • Because Alexander Frazer had many children, that resulted in many descendants, many of whom took DNA tests.
  • ThruLines at Ancestry continue to be a helpful tool in validating (in this case) Frazer genealogical trees. DNA matches coupled with genealogy is a powerful tool and ThruLines is good representation of the intersection of DNA and genealogy.