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Looking at My Philip Frazer Line

I recently had an some emails from two people who are on the Philip Frazer Line. This first email was from Jeanette:

Hello dear you both. I and my sister are matched with Kay from Australia. She and ourcommon matches show DNA on our third and seventh chromosomes. Estimated fourth or fifth Cousin.
There is also a Donald Hartley match.
Another match is with Janet Susan Fitzgerald (born Frazer). Her tree has Archibald Frazer born 1751 to 1835 whose father is James Frazer of Clerragh 1720 to 1835.
His father was Archibald 1690 to 1749.
I hope this is helpful in our quest to link Mary Taylor to the Frazer family.
I have written to Kay.
Sincerely Jeannette 

The second email was from Richard:

Hi Joel,

In light of Jeannette’s message advising of DNA linkages between her Taylor family and people in the Frazer line, I am forwarding my Frazer/Taylor conclusions for your consideration.  My conclusions are supported by immigration, settlement and naming information. I was launched on this path by a letter sent 50 years ago from my second cousin 3x removed, Muriel Lewis: “My grandmother, on my Mother’s side, Rebecca (Reba) Taylor married John Elliott.  This is why Myrtle [Muriel’s sister] was named Myrtle ‘Taylor’ Lewis.  My grandmother’s sister, a Taylor, married a Fraser, or Frazer [Mary Taylor m. Philip Frazer c. 1822??]”  

Based on that information, I looked into Rebecca Taylor and her relatives who immigrated in 1830 to North Elmsley Twp, Lanark County in what is now Ontario.

    • Edward Taylor (b. Sligo in 1764, d. 1845 in Lanark County ON) was the father of John Taylor (b. 1821 in Sligo) and William Taylor (b. 1829 in Sligo) and all of them immigrated in 1830 and settled near one another in Elmsley Twp, Lanark – includes Perth Ontario).  Edward’s wife was Catharine** (b. 1786 in Sligo, d. 1860 in Lanark ON, maiden name unknown).  I haven’t located their marriage record from Ireland.  In the 1851 Canada Census, Catharine, a widow, lived with John Taylor and his wife Elizabeth and their children Sarah and James.  William Taylor and his wife Margaret lived either in the same log house or next door.  John and William are both listed as farmers.  ** NOTE: most of the census records spell it as Catherine (the normal spelling) but her tombstone reads ‘Catharine.’ Jeannette advises that the Taylor descendants have spelled their Catharines with an ‘a’ in recognition of Edward Taylor’s wife Catharine
    • Rebecca Taylor (b. Sligo c 1814-1816, also immigrated to North Elmsley in 1830) married John Elliott in 1831.  Among their children in the 1851 Canada Census were Catherine Elliott (named after Rebecca’s mother?) and Edward Eilliott (named after Rebecca’s father?).  My conclusion is that Edward Taylor and Catharine _) were Rebecca’s parents – with John Taylor and William Taylor as her brothers.
    • Mary Taylor (b. Sligo in 1805) married Philip Frazer in 1822.  By 1830 they had at least three children and presumably were not interested in emigrating to Canada then.  They had at least two other children after 1830.  Since Mary Taylor is the only Taylor woman who married a Frazer in this family, I conclude that Mary Taylor and Rebecca Taylor were sisters, and that Edward Taylor and Catharine _ were Mary Taylor’s parents.
    • One of the daughters of Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor, Eliza Frazer (b. 1826 at Kilmactranny, Sligo) emigrated to Canada in 1842 (aged 16) but I don’t have any information on who she came with (no immigration records to Canada at that time).  In 1845, she married Courtney Colter in Smith’s Falls (Bathurst District, later Ontario) which is near North Elmsley.  Quite possibly Eliza Frazer stayed with her aunt Rebecca until she was married.  One of the witnesses to her marriage was John Taylor, presumably her uncle.  Eliza and Courtney’s children included Philip (b. 1848), John (b. 1850), William (b. 1852), Mary (b. 1856) and Rebecca (b. 1858), which reinforces the apparent connections to the Taylors.  The family relocated to Brant County, SW Ontario before the 1851 Canada Census – by the way, George Frasier, age 12, was living with Courtney and Eliza in 1851 – potentially our George James Fraser (?) who identified his parents as Philip Frazer and Mary Gray [either a later wife of Philip Frazer or a deliberate ‘error’ as George’s name is stated on the marriage register as John G. Frazer.  His bride, who was pregnant, misstated her parents’ names and they married in another town].
    • My gggrandmother, Ann Frazer (b. 1822 at Kilmactranny, Sligo) was the fourth child of Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor.  I don’t know when she immigrated to Canada but by 1851 her sister Eliza and family were living in Brant County, Ontario. Ann Frazer married Robert Johnston in Oxford County, Ontario (next door to Brant County) in 1853 (according to a Family Bible – no marriage record located yet). Among the children of Ann Frazer and Robert Johnston were Philip Frazer Johnston, Mary Jane Johnston, Rebecca Annie Johnston and Edward Taylor Johnston, providing additional reinforcement of the family relationships with the Taylors. 
    • Another Frazer sister, Rebecca2 (b. c 1837 in Ireland and perhaps named after her aunt Rebecca Taylor), later immigrated to Canada. In the 1861 Ontario Census, Rebecca (daughter of Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor) was living with her sister Ann Frazer, brother in law, Robert Johnston and family.  Rebecca Frazer married William Geddes in 1865, listing her parents as Philip and Mary (Taylor). Rebecca Frazer died in 1877 without children.

So that’s the plot line.  The more I think about it, the more likely it sounds.  If there is any documentation, it might be in Irish records but we know how scarce those are.

Jeannette and I would welcome your thoughts.

Richard 

Here is Richard in my Philip Frazer DNA Tree:

Now, I have that Philip above born about 1800 was the son of another Philip. He had two known sons who were Philip and James Frazer. I have that James Frazer married his first cousin Violet Frazer and that was the line I come from.

Confusingly the Jeanette in the tree above is a different Jeanette. The Jeanette that wrote has Taylor ancestry. I have that at least one Taylor married a Frazer.

The confusing part about this record is that there could be different interpretations. It could be that Philip born around 1800 or likely before married first Jane Johnston. She may have passed away and then Philip married secondly Mary Taylor.

I do have this transcribed record:

This is from a chronological compilation of Frazer records that were available several years ago. JDH is me and MFA is Michael, a Frazer descendant and researcher living in England.

The interpretation from that time appears to be that Jane Johnston married Philip, son of Philip in 1818, had one daughter with that wife named Jane in 1819.

I should note that Richard and Jeannette are looking at the Taylor family. I do not have any known relation to the Taylor family. However, the way the people intermarried, it would not be surprising if I was related in some way. That also means, that as I have no known connection to the Taylor line, it would not be surprising if my family had no matches with Taylor descendants who were not also Frazer desendants or related in some other way.

Also David

I also wrote a Blog about David recently as he shows at Ancestry as being related through the Philip Frazer Line:

David matches my sister Sharon at Ancestry. I notice that David also matches my brother Jim at Gedmatch. Jim tested at FTDNA but not at Ancestry. David is quite sure of his ancestry up through George James Frazer born 1841 in Sligo, but is not convinced that George James was the son of Philip. I had written a Blog about David recently here.

So What Is My Goal?

As I see it now, I have two goals. One goal is to see if Jeanette is related to the Frazers. The other is to see how David is related to the Frazer Line. Both of these goals seem to hinge on whether Philip Frazer who married Mary Taylor at the Kilmactranny Parish was the father of Ann Frazer and George James Frazer who moved to Ontario. I suppose a third goal is to improve my confort in the theory that Philip Frazer born some time between 1758 and 1776 was the father of Philip, George and James. James was my ancestor and Philip Junior the ancestor of the green tree above.

The Genealogy

It is well documented that Philip married first Jane Johnston and secondly Mary Taylor. These are recorded in lists of marriage license bonds and also Philip’s first marriage is recorded in the Kilmactranny Parish records. Here is Kilmactranny:

The dotted line is the border between County Sligo and County Roscommon.

That was Philip Junior and his marriages. Secondly, I have this genealogy from about 75 years ago:

Unfortunately for me, this does not show that James was a son of Philip. However, I believe that he was and the person doing the research was not aware that he was a son of Philip or did not want to empasize that as it would have shown that James married his 1st cousin Violet Frazer.

Third, I have the Tithe Applotment. These were taken probably in 1933 in Derrycashel. I have this from my Frazer Website:

My belief is that Georg, Philip and James Frazer were all the sons of Philip Frazer. In fact, the order may even indicate the birth order. I have these two Frazer  burial records from 1831:

My guess is that the William and George could be the same two listed in the Tithe Applotments above. One problem with that is that I have that the Tithe Applotment was in 1833 and these two deaths were two years earlier. This could be explained if:

  • The Tithe Applotment was taken earlier (say 1831) not published in 1833.
  • The Tithe Applotment knew these two were dead but still named William and George as the properties were still in the family.

Interesting, my 2nd great-grandfather was named George William born about 1838. I think that he could have been named for the George and William who died in 1831.

I know that my 2nd great-grandfather lived in Derrycastle. My Irish relatives even brought me to the property and showed me the house in 2004:

This may even have been the house of James’ father Philip.

Further I have that my ancestor James named his first son Philip. It was often customary for the father to name his first son after his father:

Here is the Philip Frazer genealogy from my Ancestry Tree:

YDNA Proves One of My Theories Wrong

I had written a Blog recently of how I felt that David fit into the Frazer tree and mentioned David above. It turns out that David tested at 23andMe and that company does a rough estimate of your YDNA. I found out very recently David’s YDNA haplogroup. The YDNA is very good at telling you what branch of mankind you are not in along with telling where you fit in. According to AI, there are now over 107,000 branches of YDNA.

David’s 23andMe estimate has him at R-S845. Here is what YFull, a YDNA analysis company shows:

This starts at the top right at “Genetic Adam”. Of importance along the way is the R1b Branch. R1b formed about 22,000 years ago according to YFull. The Frazer group that I belong to is from R1a which formed around the same time. That means that on the paternal only line, David and the North Roscommon, Ireland Frazers have a common ancestors also around that time – not closely related!

Here is SNP Tracker:

This shows that David’s paternal ancestors were likely in Ireland during Roman times.

Another interesting Haplogroup that David has is L21. This Haplogroup has been roughly associated with the Celtic peoples especially of Ireland, England and Scotland. If David was to do more YDNA testing, he would find out more about his paternal line.

For comparison, here is my known Frazer 2nd cousin at 23andMe:

Stan is my 2nd cousin. I am a Hartley and I come out as L21 (a closer match on my Hartley Line to David). Here is what YFull shows for R-L664:

The important difference is that my Frazer Line is from R1a as mentioned above. This R-L664 is still a pretty old Haplogroup going back 4,000 years or more. However, based on BigY testing at Family Tree DNA, we have Haplogroups that are much more recent:

At the bottom right is my second cousin Paul who I had tested and his 3rd cousin Rick. Their common ancestor is James Frazer born about 1804. The Haplogroup of R-Y85652 shows a common ancestor at about 1799 based on the YDNA testing alone.

Correcting the Frazer DNA Tree

When I had added LSW in 2020, I had noted that LSW did not have matches with the rest of the Philip Branch:

I also note that David has a good match with LSW, so for now, I will take off the George James Frazer Line from the Philip Branch.

I am now left with just the Johnston branch of the Philip Line.

Other Corrections

I can disconnect George James Fraser from my Ancestry Tree like this:

In Edit Relationships, I can just X out his mother and father. He will still be in my tree but not connected to my Frazer Line.

It does not look like I had added David’s matches to DNA Painter, so I do not to make any changes there.

Richard’s ThruLines

When I look at Richard’s ThruLines going back to his and my common ancestor of Philip Frazer, I see this:

Richard has his brother and Jeanette that he matches on the Philip Branch. Then he matches 7 people on the James Frazer Line where I am:

Richard matches sm and Gladys on the Richard Frazer Line.

On the George William Frazer Line, Richard matches me, my daughter, my sister, Karen and Mabel.

Richard’s Genealogy

One complicating factor is that Richard and I both have more than one Frazzer Line. Here is Richard’s Ancestry Tree:

Richard’s fourth great-grandfather was Philip Frazer born around 1776. This Philip is our common ancestor making Richard and me 5th cousins.

Richard also shows that he descends from Archibald Frazer and Ann Stinson:

However, I do not believe that I descend from that Line, so Richard and I would go back to the common ancestors of Archibald Frazer born about 1720 and Mary Lilley making us also 6th cousins.

Summary and Conclusions

  • The Blog was a bit long, so I need to break it up
  • I wrote a summary of where I see myself fitting into the Philip Frazer Line.
  • I was surprised to see that David is not a direct Frazer descendant. At least, not on the the line that I am looking at from North Roscommon. However, having said that, there is still some DNA connection.
  • One of my goals was to find out how David fit in to the Frazer Line. I found out based on his 23andMe YDNA Haplogroup that he does not fit in with my Frazer Line. David still may be interested in testing further on his YDNA Line to find out where his paternal line does fit in.
  • Even though I had thought that David should have fit into the Frazer Line, it is good to have certainty in knowing that he does not fit in rather than wondering whether he does or does not fit in.
  • I still have not looked closely into the Taylor Line. That will have to be in a later Blog.

 

 

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A Update of Frazers of Roscommon YDNA

I see that the last Blog I wrote on the YDNA of the Frazers of Roscommon was in 2023.

Why Is YDNA Important?

Autosomal DNA tests your matches to all lines going back in your family, but after a few generations the chances of matching dwindle:

YDNA testing is more laser specific. It will test the father to father to father line all the way down to what is called genetic Adam. When tested with other relatives, this will result in a YDNA Tree. In the case of Frazers, many have tested and there is already a tree at MyFTDNA:

Some things to note from the above Match Time Tree:

  • The above tree came out as expected in 2023. However, I was interested in 2023 to look at the time estimates
  • In the Match Time Tree above, I am represented by Paul, my 2nd cousin once removed who I had tested.
  • All these 7 BigY testers are believed to descend from Frazers. From Warren on down (Haplogroup R-FT421618), these Frazers have Irish ancestry.
  • Richard at the top of the list has American roots, so his Frazer ancestors probably came directly from Scotland perhaps around the time our ancestors moved from Scotland to Ireland:

 

  • If FTDNA is correct, and the common ancestor between Richard and the Irish (County Roscommon) Frazers is from 1455, then Richard’s ancestors could have come directly from Scotland to America.

Further:

Our believed Irish Frazer Common Ancestor was Archibald Frazer born possibly around 1690. An earlier date of 1625 could mean that the genealogy is off or that the YDNA estimate is off. This could be due to the fact that the previous common ancestor was estimated to be born in 1455.

This date of 1799 is very close to the birth date for my ancestor James Frazer of 1804 based on his age at death. James  Frazer is the common ancestor between Paul and Rick (see tree below).

Assuming the tree below is accurate, this suggests that Barker could descend from Archibald Frazer born 1792.

The estimated date for the common ancestor based on the BigY testing is 1869 compared to the genealogical date of 1836.

Here is a Tree I made for my last 2023 Frazer YDNA Blog:

However, this is subject to interpretation. As the Dingman Haplogroup goes all the way back to Archibald Frazer born about 1690, he could be theoretically from the James Line. Barker’s Haplogroup of R-Y151390 is the parent of R-FT521607. R-FT421607 represents Rodney and Jonathan who are known to be from the James Line of Frazers. However, notice that I do not have a genealogy for Barker as there were some questions on his genealogy. This is a case where the DNA testing is more clear than the genealogy.

DNA Relative David

I recently wrote a Blog based on autosomal DNA matching with David. Here is where I placed him on my Philip Frazer DNA Chart:

I believe that Philip Frazer at the top of tree was the son of another Philip Frazer who also had James Frazer born about 1804. This James was my ancestor. After talking to David, I suggested that taking a YDNA test would be helpful. David is important as he is the only known direct male Frazer/Fraser descendant on this Philip Line. Martha comes down from the Kennedys, Richard and Barry are from the Johnstons, Jeanette is also from the Johnstons, LSW is from the Watts and David is from the direct male Fraser/Frazer side. As a direct male Frazer descendant, he is the only known male eligible at this time for YDNA testing. None of the other people from the green tree above carry the Frazer YDNA.

David’s expected line is here:

I believe that David descends from Philip born 1800. David is a cautious genealogist which is commendable and is skeptical of his ancestry before George James Frazer born 1841 in Sligo.

It is difficult to predict the results, but here are some possibilities if David were to take the BigY test:

  • If David comes out as Y85652, that would mean that Philip was the first person to have that Haplogroup and that there were no changes between Philip and son James. I think that this could be a likely scenario
  • If David comes out with a new Haplogroup, that would mean that my ancestor James Frazer would have been the first to have Y85652.
  • David’s results may also be helpful to Dingman and clarify his Haplogroup which is now the same as our first Irish Frazer Common ancestor, Archibald Frazer born about 1690.

Also note that now the Achibald Frazer Line (born about 1715) only has one new Haplogroup since the common ancestor of the whole Irish Frazer group. This is despite having three BigY tested peole on the Archibald Line. The James Line (born about 1720) has also three BigY tested people and has two new Haplogroups. This means that if David takes the BigY test, it is possible that we will find a new Haplogroup on the Archibald side.

Frazer STRs

I hesitate to mention Frazer STRs, but they are also a measure of YDNA. Some people like to ignore them as they can be difficult to interpret compared to the SNP part of YDNA. The reason for this is that values could go up or down over time and as we don’t know what happened with these STRs in past generations, they could lead to ambiguous conclusions. However, I think that STRs are important. MyFTDNA has a Fraser project with a small group (our group) of Frazers in a section called R1a1. Out of the over two thousand Frazers tested in the group, there are only 11 in the Frazer project in the R1a1 group:

My cousin Paul is 444958 and his third cousin once removed, Rick, is above Paul:

If David tests his YDNA, his STR profile should be similar to Paul and Rick’s. I believe that David is a fourth cousin to Paul.

Here are some of the 111 STR markers typically tested:

The third row is the median value. So the fourth marker has a median value of 10. Paul and Rick have a mutation to 11. It is possible that David could also have a value of 11 at this marker – highlighted in pink. The same for the last marker shown. The median value is 35-39. Paule and Rick have a value of 35-40 or an extra mutation at that marker.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to update a previous Blog from almost three years ago on YDNA from the Frazers of North Roscommon, Ireland
  • The Time Tree at FTDNA came out as expected.
  • I noted the dates for the common ancestors of the Haplogroups. These were generally fairly close to the actual common ancestors where those common ancestors were known.
  • I focused some of David who is believed to be a Frazer descendant of the line from Philip Frazer born around 1775 down to his son Philip born about 1800.
  • David is an excellent candidate for YDNA testing. His testing would show how he fits in to the Frazer family from North Roscommon, Ireland.
  • I should note that David’s and my ancestors came from Sligo. That is because the area in Sligo that they came from was adjacent to North Roscommon.

 

 

 

 

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DNA Matches for My Childrens’ Maternal Warren Side

My children’s maternal side is Polish, English, Irish, and French Canadian. I wrote a Blog on my children’s clusters in 2025, but only looked at their Morrow side.

The Genealogy

Here is my children’s maternal genealogy:

  • Roughly 1/2 Polish – Jarek
  • 1/4 French Canadian (Morrow and Tacy – though those surnames are anglicized)
  • 1/8 Irish (Warren – previously thought to be Cavanaugh)
  • 1/8 English – Gatley

The Clusters

Here are my daughter’s Standard Clusters:

I took a guess on the Maternal Grandmother part and was wrong. See how closely these two are related. These are both Polish Clusters. So perhaps Jarek and Wozniak. It appears that no maternal grandmother clusters are available at this level. Here is one person I recognize from the third cluster:

He is also from Jarek, but a generation back. Here are the ranges for the Standaard Clusters:

Here are Heather’s corrected standard clusters:

Let’s see if my son’s standard clusters are any different:

Here I have filtered for the maternal only clusters. It is basically the same as my daughter’s but my son has more of the recent matches and less of the older matches.

Warren Clusters

I worked on Morrow Clusters in my previous Blog, I’ll look at Warren Clusters now. Here are some of my son JJ’s ThruLines:

The closest match to JJ is a 4th cousin:

However, there is another 4th cousin on the Hazel Sullivan Line with a larger DNA match:

I’ll pick Robin as the focus person for JJ’s clusters. I’ll also add the other four in:

I will choose 20 – 100 cM for the match level:

After going through all that, I get only the people I put into the cluster. I assume that means that that is all there is. This is a case where clusters are not very helpful

Shared Matches

I pay $10 per month for these so let’s look at JJ and Robin’s Shared Matches:

Here are nine matches instead of 4, so this is clearly better than the Clusters.

I also have this Sullivan DNA tree:

It looks like I am missing Cedar. Also, my DNA tree does not match ThruLines. Robin should not be Autumn’s mother. This should be more accurate:

 

Shared Match Jacqueline

Ancestry has her has a grand niece or half niece to Robin. My guess is a grand niece as she shows her grandparents as still being alive in her tree.

Shared Match Michael

Michael shows his mother as a Sullivan:

Sullivan is a pretty common name, but I can add it to my tree as a floating tree and see if it matches up. Michael’s tree does not show his parents married, but I assume that they were. When I add them as married, I find an obituary for Dorothy:

Here is Linwood, New Jersey:

Dorothy’s sister was Elizabeth Fitzpatrick.

This must be the family in 1940:

Dorothy’s mother, Sarah was born in Massachusetts.

This Social Security record for Elizabeth is helpful:

Here is another Social Security record tying Sarah back to Lowell, MA:

James was listed as a musician when he married:

Charles Sullivan and Mary Smith marry in Lowelll in 1893. This brings me back to the tree that I have.

I need to merge this Charles Sullivan with the one in my floating tree:

Now I can add Michael to my children’s Warren DNA Tree:

I can see an error in my existing tree as Francis must have been born much later than 1835. That should be 1865. Civil War Time (or right after).

This shows that Michael and JJ are fourth cousins. Michael and Robin are third cousins. The DNA match between Michael and JJ and the fact that Michael’s mother was a Sulllivan gave me some certaintly that the trees would match up and they did.

The Warren DNA Tree is heavily weighted toward the Sullivan side:

It seems like there should be more DNA matches out there somewhere:

I have that Jeremiah Warren had 7 children, but the matches only show through two of the children: Bridget and John. Also, John Wareen had 5 children, but I have not seen matches between my children’s ancestor John Edward Warren Cavanaugh and any of the other 4 siblings. When I looked into the 4 siblings, it appeared that they all died single except for Thomas. However, Thomas married at age 17 and died less than a year later. That would explain a lack of DNA matching.

JJ and Tricia

JJ and Robin have a shared match named Tricia:

Above is Tricia’s paternal side tree. I could get Tricia into my tree by use of a floating tree, but I will try a lazier way. When I choose Mary Briere from Tricia’s tree and hit the Ancestry search button, I see this:

When I choose shared matches for Tricia and JJ and sort by closest matches to Tricia, I see that Eileen is a fairly close match to Tricia at 720 cM. Here is Eileen’s tree:

Eileen’s mother is Norma Golden, so my guess is that Norma is the sister of Francis Golden born 1930. Looks like I don’t have much information on Blanche Sullivan in my Ancestry Tree:

I can fix that quickly. Here is the marriage record:

The 1930 Census fills in some details for children:

With the 1940 Census for Lowell, we can add in Norma:

I’ll just add Tricia to my Warren DNA Tree:

Tricia is Eileen’s 1st cousin once removed and JJ’s 4th cousin once removed.

Heather’s Warren DNA

 I can follow the same logic for Heather:

Heather has a closer match with Eileen. Clustering with Eileen only produced 4 matches. However, as before, shared matches with Eileen was much more helpful:

This is an interesting list. However, Dany shows as a possible Tessier connection:

I’ll ignore Dany and his small DNA match right now and look at Kevin who has a 21 cM DNA match with Heather:

The pateral side of Kevin’s tree goes back to George D Sullivan. It turns out that I have this George in my Ancestry Tree already:

Kevin’s father Jerrold should be in the 1950 Census:

He must be Jerry.

I already have Kevin on my Warren DNA Tree, so I don’t need to add him. However, his father is in my Tree now.

Heather’s next shared match is Julie. However, her ancestors appear to be from Canada. Heather’s next shared match Chantel has ancestry from Canada and England. JJ had fewer shared matches but fewer confusing ones also. Lexie also has Canadian ancestors. Lisa has a good tree, but again no Irish ancestry shown. Suzanne’s ancestors also have French sounding names. I assume that Eileen’s French Canadian heritage is somehow mixed in to her connection on the Warren side. Heather has some French Canadian ancestry and no apparent Irish ancestry. Michael also has French Canadian ancestry.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I had thought that Clusters would be helpful in identifying Warren relative DNA matches. It turns out that my son’s Shared Matches were more helpful. I had also thought that my daughter’s Shared Matches to a Warren relative would be helpful. However, they resulted in a lot of French Canadian relatives for some reason.
  • In any event, my Ancestry Tree on my children’s maternal side was improved and my Wareen DNA Tree was improved.
  • I found out why there were no further matches on the John Warren/Bridget Welch Line. Apparently there were no further offspring other than from John Warren/Cavanaugh.
  • Jeremiah Warren and Mary Kelly had other children. However, my Warren DNA Tree does not show matches with any of their offspring. Perhaps there were not many offspring or they didn’t have their DNA tested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Checking a Nicholson Common Ancestor from My Sister

My sister has an interesting possible Nicholson common ancestor with a match at Ancestry. This is how it looks:

Maybe I have looked at this before as it appears I must have Edward Percy Fenn in my Ancestry Tree. However, I do not see this in my Nicholsono DNA Tree:

My DNA Tree only shows descendant from three children of Matthew Nicholson born 1798. Those are Henry, Lydia and William.

I was able to find a better Nicholson Chart on my laptop which I emailed to my home computer:

In addition to William Nicholson, this Tree has the Matthew children Henry, John, Sarah and Lydia. This probably explains why I was researching the John Clayton Nicholson Line in the past.

Working on AE’s Genealogy

Here is the paternal part of AE’s tree:

One of AE’s great-grandfathers is listed as Edward Penelope Fenn. I’m not sure the Penelope part is right as I have Percy as a middle name. At this point, I have a two generation gap between AE and Edward Fenn. I would recommend finding out more about Edward Fenn. This is what I have now in my tree:

Death records would be helpful:

As the mother and father information mathces with what I have, I feel like I am on the right track. This seems to be about all I can find easily.

Updating the Nicholson DNA Tree

This is how I see it:

When I check AE and Lori’s shared matches, I don’t see MR but I do see someone who has no tree with the surname of Colton. That shows up a typo on my Nicholson DNA Tree. George Cotton should be George Colton.

Summary and Conclusions

  • AE’s two missing generation of ancestors between him and Edward Fenn made the analysis a little difficult
  • However, I did not have to go back many generations. I already had the genealogy up to Edward Fenn but with not many details.
  • The more branching I have, the more likely the Nicholson DNA Tree is right.
  • The tree is also supported by shared matches.

 

 

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My Brother’s Potential Hathaway Common Ancestor at Ancestry

I like looking at Ancestry’s potential common ancestors at Ancestry. In this case, my brother Jon’s DNA match is with Anita. The part which is less sure is the genealogy. Even if the genealogy is right, there is a chance that the DNA/genealogy connection could be with another ancestor. However, the fact that there is a DNA connection makes it more likely that there is a discernable genealogical connection.

Anita and Jon

Anita and Jon are shown as 6th cousins. This is as far out as these Ancestry connections go.

Shared Matches

Next, I like to check shared matches:

Dawn is a shared match. She also has a Hathaway common ancestor as Harvey Bradford married Wealthy Hathaway. This is what one genetic genealogist called walking back.

Here is the Meribah Hathaway Line from my Hathaway DNA Tree:

Jon’s ThruLines

This gets a little confusing becuase Holly, MM, and Eric are also 2nd cousins on my Hartley side. Even more confusing, if I go back far enough we are again related on the Jenney side.

John Jenney is my 10th great-grandfather and I think that this couple would be another distant pair of common ancestors.

Anita’s Genealogy

Here is Anita’s tree at Ancestry:

According to Ancestry, I should look at the Morse to Shaw Line. I can create a floating tree for Anita and then connect it to my tree assuming the genealogy looks good.

Anita already has found her dad in the 1920 Census:

I

Foster L’s father was a farm laborer in 1920 and the family lived in Acushnet. Here is Wing Road, Acushnet, though Wing may have gone further down where Hathaway is now:

It would make sense to find a wedding record to confirm Anna’s maiden name.

The couple get married in Rochester, MA in 1913 even though they live in Marion, MA.

Anna is born in North Carver.

Marion has a record of the marriage also, so perhaps the marriage did take place in Marion:

Annie was born in 1890 in Carver:

 

Annie’s mother was born in Mattapoisett:

Betsey Nye marries in Carver in 1890:

The marriage is said to be the first, but the fact that Betsey’s maiden name is given tells me otherwise:

Here is Betsey’s death record:

This information from findagrave.com seems to clarify thing:

Aged 49 yrs. 9 mos. & 21 d’s

1st married to Manuel Gonsalves on Aug. 23, 1881 in Mattapoisett, MA.
2nd married to Ezra Shaw [son of Samuel Shaw and Fanny Borden] on Sept. 21, 1890 in Middleboro, MA. He died Aug. 15, 1893 in Carver, MA.
3rd married to Francis L. Nye on Sept. 9, 1899 in Mattapoisett, MA.

Here is what I have starting with Anita’s grandmother:

Another confusing point is that I am looking for the Hathaway line and Mary J Nye was a Hathaway. She was the daughter of Betsy Hathaway:

Mary did not name a father on the marriage record in Mattapoisett in 1857. Joseph Nye was listed as a mariner at the time of marriage. This is the page for Hathaway births in Rochester:

I wonder who Betsey’s parents were and what happened to her?

Mary Jane’s death record gives little information:

As far as I know, I am not as closely related to the Mattapoisett Hathaways. My Hathaways lived in Wareham.

Connecting Joseph Nye to Mother Anne Jenney

This would connect my floating tree to my Ancestry Tree. Here is Joseph’s birth:

Here is Anne Jenney from my Tree:

I am pretty sure it is OK to connect the two, but I will look for some more evidence. This 1872 death record for Mattapoisett is enough to convince me:

The Hathaway DNA Tree

Here is my Ancestry Tree in vertical view:

According to this view, Mary Jane has her first child when she was 17:

Technically, Mary Jane was 16 when she married:

Here is part of my Hathaway DNA Tree showing that Anita and I are 6th cousins:

Summary and Conclusions

  • This was an interesting excercise going back to Mattapoisett. A single parent child marries young, has a child young and her husband is a mariner. Hopefully she had otherh family and/or community support
  • Anita and I have quite a bit in common. We both had parents born in 1918.
  • We descend from siblings born a year apart: Meribah Hathaway in 1770 and Joseph in 1771 – both before the Revolutionary War.
  • Both Anita’s family and my family seem to have stayed in SE Massachusetts.
  • These common ancestor excercises are good in that they do not take too long and they improve my understanding of a family line’s genealogy as well as local history.

 

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An Ancestry-Proposed Snell Common Ancestor

I have a lot of fun looking at proposed Ancestry Common Ancestors. Sometimes they are obvioius. Sometimes they bring me through murky genealogical areas. Let’s see where this one brings us:

The match is not close and the common ancestors go back to the 1700’s. This shows that Ed and I are 5th cousins once removed. Here is Ed’s part of my Snell ThruLines at Ancestry:

Ed should be E.G.’s 2nd cousin twice removed. This shows E.G. is as shared match between Ed and me:

That means the DNA supports the theory that Ed should also descend from Anthony Snell. Ed should fit in on the right side of this part of my Snell DNA Tree:

Here is Ed’s Ancestry Tree:

It looks on the surface to be a well researched tree.

Ed’s Floating Tree

The proper way to evaluate Ed is to create a floating tree for him in my tree and then connect him when I see that the connection is appropriate. Based on the shared DNA, it seems likely that he would be connected. According to Ed’s tree, his father was born in New Jersey and died in Germany:

I don’t see Ed listed in the obituary. Is he the same as Derek? Edward T was listed as Edward W in the 1950 Census:

At this point, we need to follow wife Marie’s line going back. Marie’s obituary gives me a head start:

I highlighted the most interesting part to me for the purposes of this Blog.

Here is Marie in 1930:

Marie’s father worked at an iron foundry. Notice that Marie’s Uncle Chester Snell lived with them. He was an attendant at a service station.

Here is an odd marriage article from 1920 that highlights the pastor instead of the bride:

Ruby was a newborn in 1905. Her father was a farm laborer.

Ruby remarries in 1951 and gives her parents’ names:

I see her father as Percy E Snell, but it is transcribed as Percy Ednell.

Here is the 1900 Census for Landis, New Jersey:

Unfortunately, it straddles a page. Percy’s father was a farmer.

This shows as E. Landis Ave., but I think it is the right vicinity:

Here I have built out Ed’s tree to Charles Snell:

That is the floating tree. I have to connect this to my tree:

Just to make sure, here is Charles’ marriage record from 1860 in West Roxbury when he was an iron monger:

I successfully merged the two Charles Snell.

Updating the Snell DNA Tree

Summary and Conclusions

  • It is interesting to see how different Snell lines diverged
  • It looks like I am missing a line under the Anthony Snell 1802 line. This is due to my computer and laptop not being synced.

  • My only question in the connectiion is between Ed and his father. However, I do not usually question these relationships as I assume that people know who their father is.
  • A shared match between Ed and EG made it highly likely that this connection was correct even before checking the genealogy.
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Reviewing a Potential Parker Common Ancestor at Ancestry

Not too long ago, I found a potential Parker common ancestor at Ancestry. In order to find this match, I search for Parker in the surname list, then filter by common ancestor and finally sort by newest match:

Audrey does not have a large match with me, but the relatioship is quite distant. As I look at the common matches between Audrey and me, I see three matches with possible common ancestors:

James shows as Audrey’s uncle.

I couldn’t find my Parker DNA Tree on my laptop, but I found this from a previous Blog in 2024:

Another confusing thing is that Audrey’s Ancestry tree does not gree with this one. James’ tree follows Audrey’s tree but takes the Parker line further back.

Caitlyn is a cousin or half Aunt of Audrey and her tree follows James’ and Audrey’s. Finally, another match in common with Audrey and me is David:

David’s tree only goes back to Robert on that side. As these 4 people match each other quite closely, it stands to reason that they all do or do not descend from Isaac Parker.

Looking at James’ Genealogy

As James is a generation earlier than Audrey, I will look at his tree. I will start a floating tree for James and then connect him if it works out.  James shows his father David was born in Marion, MA. This is interesting as that is where I live now.

James has this as where David was in 1940:

I am assuming that George, Robert, John and Winnifred were David’s siblings. I think that this is the family in 1930 in South Wareham:

I think that this is the William Herbert Parker I have in my tree:

However, I don’t have enough information in my tree yet to link the two:

Here is some more information on William from findagrave.com:

Here we are back to William Henry Parker Junior, though it certainly seems to be the person in the 1930 Census. I think I need to get his middle name back to Henry.

Here is my improved version of William Henry Parker Junior:

Note that I do not have David. However, I think I have enough information to meld my two trees.

Here is an intersting twist:

According to this obituary, William Parker’s wife was born Grace Parker. I assume that means that William was married twice because I also see this marriage in Brockton in 1905:

Here I have connected the trees:

I think that Wiliam Henry Jr. should have about 10 children, so I am missing some.

Here is an interesting fact. I found this marriage record at findagrave.com:

This states that William Henry was marrying for the first time, yet I have a marriage record for him im Brockton in 1905. No wonder I am having trouble with the genealogy.

Fixing the Parker DNA Tree

This part of the tree seems off:

This is from my 2024 Blog:

Let’s see where my ThruLines are now:

My ThruLines show a William Henry Parker where James and his relatives are. Then I have William H. Parker who I suppose to be the same as William Henry Parker.

A New Problem

Notice the image from my 2024 Blog. This had James as 2nd cousin to Barbara and TD. Now the ThruLines as having a separated William Henry Parker and William H Parker. These leaves a few possibilities:

  1. The TD Branch connects to Isaiah Parker and the James Branch does not
  2. The James Branch connects to Isaiah Parker and the TD Branch doese not
  3. Neither branch connects to Isaiah Parker
  4. Both branches connect to Isaiah Parker – I feel that this is least likely as the two branches do not seem to match each other by DNA.

It occurs to me that there is even another solution. That is that Grace May Parker may descend from Isaiah Parker or another related Parker line.

If #1 is true, then I have messed up that connection by showing that James goes back to Isaiah Parker in my Ancestry Tree.

More Genealogy Needed

Let’s look at William Henry Parker born 1886. His parents were William H. and Elizabeth V Bumpus. The 1883 Wareham wedding record for William H Parker and Elizabeth Parker shows that William H was born in Fairhaven and gives these sets of Parents:

That means that my 2023 Blog was correct in not connecting the James Branch to the Parker Line. So, how do I fix this?

Here is the point where my tree is now wrong:

I need to take out this Wililam H Parker and put in the right one. I can try by deleting his parental relationship:

While I’m at it, I’ll add in his correct parents so there will not be later confusion.

One confusing thing happens in 1889. William Henry’s son is named William Herbert Parker:

This is an important detail and a crucial link between TD’s tree and mine.

So Where Does James Fit in?

This is where I use my shared matches between James and me. Here are two hints:

JH and EG are our shared matches and they suggest common ancestors down different colonial Massachusetts lines of Bradford, Hathaway, Snell and Luther.

Above, the boxes show where the DNA suggests and the arrows show where a wrong interpretation of the genealogy suggests.

Summary and Conclusions

  • In my enthusiasm to add the James Line to my Parker DNA Tree, I made a mistake on the James Line genealogy
  • It turns out that their genealogy was correct. I tend to give more credit to others’ genealogy, but for some reason this time I didn’t. One lesson.
  • Also I didn’t look into my previous Blog. This perhaps would have told me that I was going down the wrong path in the James Line genealogy.
  • Finally, shared matches were helpful in showing that the TD line going back to Isaiah Parker did not match the James Lines. Geneaolgy and DNA do work together.

 

 

 

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Investigating a New Frazer Theory at Ancestry

Recently, while looking for another match, I saw that my sister Sharon had a potential Frazer common ancestry with a DNA match:

My job is to evaluate the connection to see if it is likely or not.

The Philip Frazer line is important to me as I believe that I descend from Philip Frazer. I can’t prove it, but by naming patterns and process of elimination, I have come to believe that as the best Frazer genealogical theory.

I have built a Philip Frazer DNA tree:

It looks like I cut a bit off of the tree:

Basically, there were two Frazer brothers from County Roscommon. They were Archibald and James. The lived in the 1700’s. I descend from the elder brother Archibald. Actually I descend from both, but more directly from the Archibald Line. Archibald is believed to have had four sons: John, Philip, Richard, and Archibald. As mentioned, I think I descend from Philip.

I see that my sister Sharon’s DNA match David supposedly descends from Philip and George James Frazer. I am asked to evaluate George James. That means that even though he is on my DNA tree, he must not be in the Ancestry Tree. This is what my tree shows:

I also am missing a birth and death date for Philip Frazer son of Philip Frazer. One problem is this document:

This shows one Philip being married twice or perhaps two Philips marrying. I assume that the first Philip is the elder Philip marrying for a second time and the second marriage is for the son Philip marrying. Assuming that to be the case, I should change my tree. Of course the younger Philip could have married Jane Johnston first and the elder could have married Mary Taylor second. I see from my tree above, that the younger Philip’s first daughter appears to be Jane Frazer and she could have been named for her mother Jane Johnston. However, the first daughter should have been named for the mother’s mother which I do not think is known. I’ll just switch my tree to have the younger Philip married to Mary Taylor.

Now I have this situation:

Assuming the elder Philip was still alive, and that the younger Philip was either not very young when he married or was older than I think, I’ll say the elder Philip married Jane Johnston as his second wife and had Jane Frazer as a daughter.

Now I need to put Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor as being born around 1800.

Now it would make sense if Philip had a son named George James as his two brothers had those names (assuming my tree is right). I see that I have a Blog that mentions George James Frazer from 2020. 

In that Blog, Sharon had a match with LS. I see that LS also appears as a shared match between Sharon and David. I think that if I can validate David’s tree back to George James Frazer, I should be all set. Here is David’s tree:

Here is the photo David has of George James Frazer:

If my Frazer DNA tree is correct, he should be the first cousin of George William Frazer, my 2nd great-grandfather.

Of course, I am not very sure how much I look like my first cousins. At least his tie looks the same! My relative in Ireland said someone scribbled on my 2nd great-grandfather’s face. So that doesn’t help either.

My 2nd great-grandfather George William Frazer was born about 1838 and his first cousin George James Frazer was born in 1841. They both appear to be named for their Uncle George Frazer who died in 1831.

Evaluating David’s Tree

I like the chances of David linking up, so I will put him into my tree as a floating tree. That means not connected to my major tree. If I agree with Ancestry’s proposed common ancestor for us, then I will connect the two trees.  I also find it encouraging that David’s tree has George James Frazer born in Sligo, Ireland:

David’s father should be easy to find as he was born in 1929 in the US. Here is the 1940 Census with David’s father and grandfather:

David’s grandfather was an accountant with an insurance business.

James Alexander Fraser, Sr.

Here is William in the 1881 Census for Woodstock, Ontario:

Unfortunately, the father’s initials only are given. They should be G.J. for George James but are transcribed as G.B. In 1891, the father is more clearly G.J.:

G.J. works at the inland home? office:

 

According to AI:

Common occupations and roles from that era containing “inland” include:
    • Inland Revenue Officer: Government officials responsible for collecting excise duties, inspecting distilleries, and regulating weights and measures.

William’s birth record gives better information about his parents:

This gets me as far as David’s tree:

Philip Fraser in green above has a proposed birth date of 1815. That does not fit in well assuming that Philip married in 1822.

George’s birth date is given on a civil service list:

I believe that George was baptized in the Kilmactranny Parish in Sligo as that church is missing about a 10 year period of records from 1842 going back about 10 years. The 1881 Census shows that Philip was likely the first son of George James. By tradition, this could mean that George’s father was also Philip.

Here is George in 1861:

The fact that the name George is passed down seems to support this family structure:

However, I do not know where my 2nd great-grandfather got his middle name William from. Was there another brother named William or was this name from the mother’s side? There was supposedly a William who was the son of John Frazer (the elder Philip’s brother) who went to the US.

Connecting George James Frazer to My Ancestry Tree

I put George James’ father as Philip Frazer born about 1800. This also shows in my sister Sharon’s ThruLines now:

It looks like I have not attached Ann to Philip in my tree, so I need to do that also.

Updating My Frazer DNA Tree

It looks like I just need to add David:

One interesting thing about David is that he is a generation up from my other matches on the Philip Line. That means that he is my fourth cousin once removed rather than a 5th cousin.

Clustering Sharon and David

I created a custom cluster between Sharon and David and looked for mathes between 20 and 100 cM.

The first cluster had only three DNA matches:

Geraldine has no tree at Ancestry. Based on shared matches, Geraldine is LS’ half sister or Aunt.

Here is the next Cluster:

We already know about Geraldine, LS, and David. I am interested in YK. YK”s maternal side goes to Ramsey or Ramsay from Canada:

Just looking at the Cluster above, I see that LS and David are from the Philip . However, MY at the bottom of the cluster is also and probably Geraldine and YK at the top.

From memory, MY is actually Richard or Barry. But where is Jeanette? Perhaps she was a match to someone else, or matches at less than the 20 cM required to be in the cluster.

I was hoping that the Cluster would mirror what I have on my Philip Line DNA Tree:

Where:

  • Green is Philip to Philip
  • Yellow is Philip to James (and Violet Frazer) to Richard Frazer
  • Periwincle is Philip to James and Violet Frazer to James Archibald Frazer (my second great-grandfather)

However, in the second cluster above, I don’t see anyone from the yellow group. Perhaps I will make a guess why later.

It is interesting that Keith is in the Cluster as he is related on the McMaster side:

However, Fanny’s mother was also a Frazer from a different line. So it gets complicated. This could be the reason that the Richard Frazer Line is not included in the cluster. Or it could be that that the elder Philip married a McMaster which would put more McMasters in the Cluster to match. I’m not sure.

So in the Cluster above, I have accounted for two lines but not the Richard Frazer line. Also there are some that I do not know for sure how they fit in:

  • Shelly
  • Diane
  • Charles, and
  • Tim

The Final Cluster

This cluster is similar to the previous one with a large defineable James Archibald Frazer cluster. It seems like more could be done with these clusters as far as trying to track down the genealogy of the matches, but I am done for now.

More on Sharon’s Philip Frazer DNA

Sharon seems to be my only sibling tested at Ancestry who has a good match showing common ancestors with Philip Frazer of the 1700’s. Here is Sharon’s DNA Painter Profile:

Sharon has matches with Barry on the right side of her Chromosomes 14 and 15.

Here is Sharon’s DNA mapped out for Chromosome 14 mapped out with all her siblings:

Jim has all Chromosome 14 as Frazer, but he did not test at Ancestry. Sharon’s match numbers are here:

They are roughly 79-96 million. It looks like Lori should have Frazer DNA up to 96 also. So I wonder why Lori does not show as a match to David at Ancestry.

Here is Chromosome 15:

Here Sharon has a full dose of paternal Frazer DNA. Jim has nearly a full dose of Frazer DNA on his paternal side.

Sharon at Gedmatch

Barry is at Gedmatch and Raymond is a shared match between Sharon and Barry:

I will map that onto Sharon’s map. Here is Raymond:

Raymond also identifies part of Sharon X Chromosome:

The blue paternal first match is from Raymond’s sister. The second one is from Raymond. I have identified this DNA as from Margaret Mcmaster due to the way the X Chromosome is inherited.

Sharon got an X Chromosome from her dad. He got it from his Frazer Grandmother. She got her X Chromosome from her father James Archibald Frazer and he got one X Chromosome from his mother Margaret McMaster.

Summary and Conclusions

  • David was a good match who appears to connect with my 1700’s ancestor Philip Frazer
  • I looked at clusters between my sister Sharon and David
  • Those clusters showed a small Philip Line cluster and a cluster from my 2nd great-grandfather’s line.
  • I was a little surprised there was not more of a cluster from the Richard Frazer line. He was the brother of my 2nd great-grandfather George William Frazer.
  • More work could be done with working on the geneaolgies of some of the unidentified matches in the David/Sharon Cluster.
  • I made some guesses why there was not a Richard Frazer Cluster.My ancestor George married Margaret McMcaster. Someone in David’s Philip line may have married a McMaster. In addition, Margaret’s mother was Fanny McMaster. Fanny’s mother was a Frazer. This could account for the George Cluster and lack of a Richard Cluster.
  • I was also able to improve my FrazerTree at Ancestry.
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Where Did My Frazer Cluster Go at Ancestry?

I sort of know the answer but would like to tease it out. Ancestry has a standard Cluster that you can run. This is mine:

My impression is that the standard clusters are meant to show you your DNA matches from your four grandparents sides.

Those sides are:

  1. Hartley
  2. Frazer
  3. Rathfelder
  4. Lentz

Hartley Cluster – Orange

I can tell by the match names that the orange cluster represents Hartley matches in the range of 2nd cousins. It makes sense that there are a lot of matches because my great-grandfather James Hartley had 18 children. However,

  • The second child Herbert died before age 1
  • My grandfather was the fourth born
  • The 6th child did not marry -Aunt Nellie
  • 8th born Henry married but had no children
  • 9th born William died as an infant.

That means that 14 of the children had offspring leaving me a lot of relatives.

Two Maternal Clusters

Cluster 2 – Rathfelder and Nicholson

Some of these matches are on the level of 1st cousin, so they would technically be both Rathfelder and Nicholson. Of the last three matches, two are Rathfelder only and one match is Nicholson only.

My mother’s father was one of 10 Rathfelder Children. However, he was born in Latvia and the DNA testing for Latvians tends to be more with MyHeritage. Carolyn who is from Nicholson and not Lentz has no Rathfelder connection but has connection with those in my first cousin range, so she is added in that Cluster.

Cluster 3 – Nicholson/Lentz

Carolyn from Cluster 2 descends from Nicholson. The other matches in Cluster 3 appear to all descend from Lentz and Nicholso

This is from my Nicholson DNA tree where Carolyn is on the right hand side. My Lentz grandmother was one of only four Lentz children:

I should in a photo of Agnes as I recall her visiting the house. Here is an old photo with a lot of the family:

Stanley is top left. Agnes is in the middle and Emma, my grandmother is on the right. It looks like my mom right below Emma. My mom was born in December 1921, so you can judge the photo as being around 1927 or so. Perhaps Gladys, my mom is 5 0r 6 in the photo.

The Missing Frazer Cluster

I have already established that my Hartley grandfather was one of 14 children who had offspring. My Rathfelder grandfather was one of 10. However, I do not know where all the children ended up (maybe a research project). I know of at least one family that stayed in Latvia and one that moved to England. The Latvian relatives tend to test their DNA at MyHeritage.

My grandmother was one of only two children:

Marion had two children and George had two children. I guess that it never occured to me that George William Frazer was named for James A Frazer’s father.

My point is to say that as far as second cousins go, the Frazer side was not very prolific. I think that I may find some Frazer clusters in my four siblings who tested at Ancestry.

Before I leave George Frazer, it seems strange that I don’t have a photo of him other than a child photo:

Also, he had two daughter, Jeanne and Shirley. Yet his 1960 obituary only mentions his step-children:

Some More on George Frazer

I don’t remember my grandmother ever saying anything about her brother. Perhaps that was partially due to the fact that he died when I was 4 years old. I do recall my grandmother mentioning Cousin Jeaane and Cousin Shirley. Of course, they weren’t her cousins but my father’s cousins.

George married Helena Victoria Marcell in North Carolina though both of them say they were from Norfolk, Virginia. I see now that Elizabeth City, where they married, was not far from Norfolk:

Did they elope?

In 1934, the couple are shown living in Quincy, Massachusetts:

They were also living there in 1930:

The couple apparently marry as George is married to a Margaret Edginton in 1940:

They are at 17 Wendover Street in Boston:

Here is Margaret’s obituary from the Boston Globe on February 14, 1999:

Again, Jeanne and Shirley are left out.

Cousin Jeanne and Shirley

 

It looks like Jeanne married later in life at age 56. Here is a photo of Jeanne’s husband:

I also see that someone posted this yearbook picture under Jeanne Frazer:

As this is better thana the nothing I have, it will have to do. I cannot verify it. So  my bio on ‘Cousin’ Jeanne is a little sketchy. It is unclear how she met her husband as he lived quite far away.

I see that I have even less on ‘Cousin’ Shirley:

I assume that she has passed away. I don’t know if she ever married.

Heidi’s Standard Clusters

 

The point I wanted to make above is that should be a correlation between clusters and DNA testing descendants.

  • Hartley grandfather – one of 14 child bearing siblings
  • Rathfelder grandfather – one of 10 siblings
  • Lentz grandmother – one of 4 siblings
  • Frazer grandmother – one of 2 children of my Frazer great-grandfather

However, I wll also look at my sister Heidi’s standart clusters at Ancestry. Her standard cluster has expired, so I will refresh it:

Heidi’s standard clusters seem more detailed than mine. I had 3 clusters and Heidi has 6.

Clusters one and two are on my Hartley side. I can only assume that as my grandfather’s parents were Hartley and Snell, one cluster is for Hartley and one for Snell. I see at least one match in the first cluster that I know is related on the Snell side and not the Hartley side:

 

The other four clusters are maternal clusters. I had written a Blog on Ancestry’s Standard Clusters in August of last year.

Lori’s Clusters

I’ll skip to Lori’s clusters as she was the only place where I found Frazer Clusters in the standard Ancestry Cluster last year:

The first person in the last cluster is Aimee. She is my first cousing once removed. Another reason perhaps, that there are so few standard Frazer clusters. My Frazer grandmother had only two children: my father and my Aunt. Aimee is my Aunt’s granddaughter.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I had recently looked at my standard Clusters at Ancestry and was reminded that I had no Frazer Cluster.
  • My assumption was that had to do with the fact that there were fewer Frazer descendants on that side to test from
  • I looked at the descendants and found that as the case. My Frazer grandmother was one of two and she only had two children
  • Along the way, I looked into my Frazer grandmother’s brother as I do not know a lot about him. I also tried to find out more about his two daughters: Shirley and Jeanne.

 

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Death of My Wife’s Ancestor Ellen Donovan Found

I have to again thank my wife’s niece Tina for her hard work. She found the elusive death record for Ellen Donovan Crowley Sullivan. When I go to Ancestry I see that I looked at her found record four days ago, but the name of her father threw me off:

I was thinking that her father’s name was Timothy (or maybe that was Florence’s father).

Here is the Ancestry hint for Ellen’s parents:

Here we are in Boston in 1883:

Here is Warren Street:

This is in Roxbury on a major Street.

In 1880, Ellen was living at 26 Joiner Street in Charlestown with her children William, Margaret and Julia. Tina tells me that Ellen was living with her son William on Warren Street. That means Tina must have found him in the Boston Directory.

OK, forget what I said about Roxbury. This is the problem with using Google maps. I had already found William in the 1883 Boston Directory, but he was at Warrent Street in Charlestown:

Here Chrsn. is the abbreviation in the Boston Directory for Charlestown. Here is the right map:

The move from Joiner Street would not have been very far at all:

This is where the old maps come in handy. The first arrow is where 43 Warren Street would have been in Charlestown and second arrow is where 26 Joiner Street was It is almost the same Street. Here are the Streets showing more area of Charlestown:

Assuming those parents are right, this Ancestry hint makes sense:

I would be wiilling to accept this hint based on Ellen’s death record. We see agreement with both parents and her correct approximate age at death.

However, I am inclined to use more traditional spellings for the names as I don’t think the person who took down the information in Cork was the best at spelling.

Where is Kilmain?

There is a Barony called Kilmaine but that is in County Mayo. There is also a Kilmeen Townland in Cork:

This is taxing my knowledge of County Cork, Ireland. Here is the reference for Ellen’s baptismal record:

Here is Drimoleague:

Kilmeen seems to be in the right area.

I’ll say the place is Kilmeen.

But to check, I will look at some other places on the Baptismal Register.

Lahanaght:

Angrum is perhaps Angram:

Leitry:

Tina Finds a Legal Notice for Ellen Sullivan

This is what I found based on looking for what Tina found:

For some reason, I could not find this under Ellen Sullivan’s name. Here is the one Tina found:

These notices appeared on several days. Perhaps there are records in the Boston Probate Court.

Here are some cases with Ellen Sullivan/Sullivant. I found these at American Ancestors:

It is possible that Case 69299 could be hers as she apparently had no will. Here is that case:

Now, how do I find Volume and Page? I found this record at FamilySearch. At the bottom of the index for cases, I see Volume and Page:

This was actually worth it:

This gives all of Ellen’s living children.

This says that Margaret is executrix and that no one objected. A $300 bond is set for Margaret and she is supposed to provide and inventory of the estate. I think that the inventory would be interesting if we could find it.

Volume 549, Page 151:

We are only up to May 10, 1883 and Margaret has three months to come up with an inventory. I wonder if it was ever done?

According to Google:

So I guess we are out of luck there.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Tina does a good job at tracking down information.
  • This death record lead to a likely baptismal record in County Cork for Ellen Donovan
  • With a death date, it made it easier to search for other probate court records
  • This gives me an idea to look into other death records for family.