Posts

Posted on

My Wife’s Aunt Elaine’s Ancestry Ellis DNA Matches

I am the administrator for my wife’s Aunt Elaine’s DNA at Ancestry. Recently, I got notifications that she had close matches, so I thought that I would take a look. I am not sure who the close matches are, but I can look at her ThruLines.

The Genealogy

Here is Aunt Elaine’s Tree:

The major lines are:

  • Ellis – Prince Edward Island roots
  • Rayner – also PEI
  • Uphsall –  Newfoundland
  • Daley – Nova Scotia

She has Canadian Maritime ancestry.

Elaine’s ThruLines

from Elaine’s grandfather siblings’ descendants, Elaine has 27 DNA matches. That is a lot. Actually, I missed some matches off the right:

Here are 14 more matches for a total of 41 matches.

Here is what I have for an Ellis DNA tree:

This tree is from 2022, so it must be outdated. Here is the part that corresponds with the ThruLines above:

 

Note that in this tree, I have George’s siblings: Richard, Eva and Bertha. In the ThruLines, I see Richard, of course, with 20 matches, but then Marianne, John and Ellen. Then there are Sarah, Reubin, Bertha, Eva and Serena. It appears that we have some low hanging fruit to update this chart.

Now I need more genealogy. Here are the children of James Henry Ellis and Clarinda Gorrill:

I would like to at least add Marianne, John William and Ellen.

Marianne Ellis born 1875

Ancestry wants me to evaluate Evelyn and Erma Ruby Williams. They do not appear to be in my tree right now:

Also Marianne’s children are shown in grey, which means that I have not assign male or female to them. I can at least do that based on their names. For Evelyn, I need to look at the 1911 Census:

Marianne is Mary E. here. E. is for Ellis.

Let’s look at the 1921 Census:

Marianne’s mother was living with them. Ancestry transcribes Erma as Emma, so I chose Erma as per the ThruLines. Marianne had a lot of daughters!

Unfortunately, I ended up with two sons which I believe should be one. I can merge these two back together where they belong. I do not see much information on the trees of Karla or Kelton, but I assume due to the close 2nd cousin match that they are related. I do see this for Evelyn Williams:

One way to make sure that these two are right is to see if they match each other:

Yes they do by 34 cM.

So I didn’t add these two to my Ellis DNA Tree due to lack of availability on their Ancestry Trees, but I did go one generation down from Marianne Ellis in my tree.

The John William Line

I would be surprised if these four matches were not in my wife’s Ellis Tree. Here is EE’s paternal side tree at Ancestry:

In 1931, I see John William as a grocery store merchant, but where is his wife?

Here is the family in 1921:

Enid is transcribed at Mannie Ernst, but I think it should be more like Minnie Enid. I missed Enid in the 1931 Census:

Enid apparently marries young, but where is her husband? The Ellises are listed as Church of England and Enid is Presbyterian. Enid’s obituary fills in some details of her life:

Finally, I check EE’s shared matches and I find Shane as expected:

I have to have a separate Ellis DNA Tree for James Henry Ellis:

Here I have Shane who also has MacArthur in his line  – a likely additional relationship to Elaine.

This tree will likely grow quite a bit.

Ellen Mary (Ella May) Ellis

Here is my current tree:

Kent has a small DNA match with Elaine:

Kent’s Ancestry Tree is a bit different:

He has Ellen Gillis instead of Ellen Ellis. I will leave Kent off my tree right now, even though it seems he should be there.

Reubin Ellis 1890

ThruLines has changed it’s look – perhaps to fit more people in. I’ll try to add TM to my tree in the conventional way adding him as a floating tree. T.M. has an Ancestry Tree:

However, it is difficult without T’s father’s or grandfather’s name to go backwards in time.

Here is Reubin in my tree:

Here is the family in 1931:

Reubin was a farmer in 1931. Here is some basic information on Jean:

I would say that and the large DNA match are enough to put these two into my Ellis DNA tree. I’ll just check the shared matches. These are shared matches between T4 and Elaine sorted by closeness to T4:

I see that T4’s father is listed. I wonder why he does not show up on Elaine’s ThruLines? I also see T4’s brother Kirby on the list. From shared matches, genealogy and DNA matches, this is what I get:

Sarah Ellis 1886

I will look at Sarah and then take a bread from the extensive Ellis family.

Elaine shows two matches on this line. I already have two children of Sarah in my Ancestry tree. Here is Shelley’s Ancestry Tree:

Ancestry conveniently outlines the common ancestors of Shelley and Elaine. I assume that Shelley knew who her grandfather was, but I can put Shelley in as a floating tree and then connect her.

It is clear from much information at Ancestry on Sidney that she connects, so I will add her in to my tree.

Sadie fits in between Richard and Reuben Ellis.

Next, Rebecca has her maternal grandmother as an Enman:

We find out quite a bit about Wilma in the Portland, Maine, newspaper;

I will add in Rebecca to my tree. I do note that Wilma’s mother was a MacArthur which likely adds to the DNA matching.

Summary and Conclusions

  • DNA matching at the 2nd cousin level is pretty much a sure thing
  • Some people had insufficient genealogy at Ancestry or private trees. This kept me from adding a few people. However, it it likely the connection is correct
  • The only thing that confuses the DNA matching is that many people from PEI are related on different lines. This could cause a higher match than expected.
  • Due to the large Ellis families and many Ellis descendants taking DNA tests, it would take a long time to review all the matches and add them to my Ellis DNA Tree.

 

Posted on

YDNA Haplogroups from Autosomal DNA

I’m pretty sure that I have written about this before. I will not write about how to extract YDNA from Autosomal DNA results but write about where to get it and what to do with it.

From what I understand YDNA general (meaning old) Haplogroups may be obtained from autosomal DNA. The main three sources of this are:

  • 23andMe
  • FTDNA

Gedmatch may have YDNA information but it is self reported by the person uploading their autosomal DNA results. FTDNA and some other company does direct YDNA testing, but I am focusing on YDNA results based on autosomal DNA testing.

This YDNA testing from autosomal testing results may not prove that you are closely related to another male or male line, but it will more often rule you out if you are not related.

My Own YDNA Results

I have taken the BigY test, so I know that I am in this Haplogroup with my brother Jim:

The Haplogroup is called R-FT225247. But looking above that there are many haplogroups whtat are available for other Hartley branches on our line. Here are the suggested dates for these Hartley Haplogroups:

The oldest branch is from a Quaker family of Hartleys who came to Pennsylvania around the year 1700. Their roots go back to the early part of the 1600’s.

Hartleys at 23andMe

23andMe does a basic YDNA Haplogroup. Here is mine:

R-L21 is pretty old and goes back to 2700 BC according to FTDNA:

My second cousin Woody tested at 23andMe also:

Woody gets a more recent Haplogroup called R-Z16855. My Haplogroup was rated at 1 in 7 (pretty common). Here is Woody’s Haplogroup’s frequency:

I don’t see Z16855 in my list from FTDNA. When I Google this Haplogroup, I find this from FTDNA:

I wonder what this means? Was 23andMe wrong in their analysis? I am not aware of Z16855 nor DC55. According to AI:

Outdated Tree Systems: 23andMe utilizes older reference trees (such as ISOGG 2016) for Y-DNA, which means your branch designation may lag years behind the latest genetic discoveries. 

Other Relatives at 23andMe – Lentz

I do see 2 Lentz matches at 23andMe. My mother’s mother was a Lentz. My first Lentz match is R-Y4355. The second Lentz match is also Y4355. Here is part of my Lentz DNA Tree:

According to 23andMe, my 2 male Lentz matches are brothers and are half 1st cousins twice removed to Dorothy – I assume Dotty on the Chart above. As Dotty is the daughter of William, I assume that my other 2 matches must desend from Stanley Lentz:

If Dorothy is twice removed from my two Lentz matches, that must mean that they are great-grandsons of Stanley. And as I have only one male child of Stanley (also Stanley) the two matches must be grandsons of the Stanley born in 1921 (same birth yeare as my mother). Even further as this Stanley had one son, my two matches must be Stanley’s son’s sons.

I put this in my chart before I forgot my reasoning:

That makes Jereme and Will my 2nd cousins once removed. I already have Jereme and Will in DNA Painter on my profile:

Chromosome 4 is interesting as it probably shows the crossover between Lentz and Nicholson. Unfortunately I do not know which match is which.

Here is what FTDNA has for the Lentz Haplogroup:

However, given my Hartley comparison between 23andMe and FTDNA, I would be skeptical. According to 23andMe:

Haplogroup R-Y4355 is descended from haplogroup R-A1168. Among 23andMe research participants, haplogroup R-Y4355 is commonly found among populations in the United Kingdom and Ireland.

FTDNA shows matches in Germany and Sweden.

Frazer YDNA from Autosomal DNA

Here is a Frazer match at 23andMe:

I’ll skip to my cousin Paul I had tested at FTDNA using the BigY test:

Paul and Rick are at R-Y85652. Paul and Rick are third cousins once removed. My 23andMe Frazer relative and Paul are first cousins.

FTDNA has the L664 is quite old:

My Frazer ancestors were in Scandinavia before making there way to Scotland about 2,000 years ago. So Sweden makes sense for L664.

I know that other Frazers have tested at FTNDA, so let’s see if any more Haplogroups show up there. Michael is a known Frazer relative:

It looks like Michael’s male line is more Allen. So that won’t work. Two other Frazers come up on a more distant connection, but they have already taken the BigY test.

On my match list I see Ken. Ken is the brother of Rick who took the BigY test:

Ken would obviously have the same more detailed Haplogroup that his brother and cousin Paul have. But here he has S2894 through his autosomal DNA.

This is simlar to the Frazer Haplogroup at 23andMe:

This gets Ken back to Sweden or Scandinavia. At 1950 BCE, this is more recent than what 23andMe shows.

An Ellis Haplogroup?

This is for my late mother-in-law Joan. I don’t see any autosomal matches at FTDNA under the Ellis name. However, I can look for an Ellis YDNA Project at FTDNA. The FTDNA Ellis YDNA Group has 257 members:

This is a possibility. Maybe the same guy from my Ellis web page:

If this is the right group, it appears to be undertested:

Interesting. I think that the J Haplogroup is somewhat rare.

Any Upshall YDNA Out There?

Upshall is a name in my wife’s mother’s tree. They were from Harbour Buffet, Newfoundland. I am not sure that FTDNA has a YDNA project for this surname. At least I don’t see any easily nor for Newfoundland. That means I need to look at Autosomal DNA.

I do see one Upshall match to my late mother-in-law under Family Finder at FTDNA, but there is no information on YDNA:

Here is what I see from Google AI:

Yes, FamilyTreeDNA (FTDNA) provides Y-DNA haplogroup results for genetic males who complete autosomal transfers, provided you pay the one-time $19 Family Finder Unlock fee. 
However, because autosomal files (from companies like AncestryDNA or 23andMe) do not verify Y-DNA data with the same confidence as lab-verified tests, FTDNA restricts these haplogroups. They will appear on your personal dashboard, but they will not be visible to your DNA matches or to Group Project Administrators. 

So, if one were to contact this match, he may have an estimate concerning his YDNA Haplogroup.

Summary and Conclusions

  • YDNA estimates given by FTNDA and 23andMe give an interesting back door view of male Haplotypes. This resource is probably underutilized.
  • These Haplogroups can be useful in certifying that a certain male is out of a surname group.
  • They can also suggest if an autosomal tester is consistant with other males in a surname group.
  • More people should be aware of this free benefit offered by FTNDA and 23andMe.

 

 

 

Posted on

A New Snell DNA Match at Ancestry?

I was just looking at my sister Sharon’s matches. I like to sort matches by ones I haven’t looked at before that show potential Common Ancestors. That lead to this potential match:

Tracey shows as a likely 4th cousin once removed to Sharon.

Here is my Snell DNA Tree:

Looks like my Snell DNA tree got too large, and I built a tree just for descendants of Otis Snell and Ann Parker. Sharon is on the lower left and Tracey’s likely ancestor Albert Snell is on the right.

Tracey’s Ancestry Tree goes back to Norman Snell born in Rochester, MA:

It should be an easy task to join Tracey’s tree with mine. I’ll add Tracey to my tree as a floating tree and then her connect her to my Snell line in the likely event that the genealogy checks out.

When I look at Tracey’s shared matches with Sharon, I also see Jeanne:

Jeanne is one generation closer to Sharon as a 4th cousin and Jeanne’s grandfather is seen on Tracey’s tree. Here is a record connecting Tracey to her father:

Here is Tracey’s dad and his family in 1950 in Wayland, MA:

Here is Katherine in 1930 in Framingham with her family:

I already have Norman in my Ancestry Tree, so now I merge the Nornan of the Census with the Norman in my Tree:

Then I can add Tracey and Jeanne to my Snell DNA Tree:

There is Tracey. Jeanne shows as being a 1st cousin once removed by DNA. At that level there is very doubt of the relationship.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was pretty sure that Tracey was a genealogical relative on the Snell line as well as a DNA match to my sister Sharon
  • The genealogy was easy as it was all in Massachusetts and I added Tracey to my tree.
  • I added Tracey to my Snell DNA tree along with a cousn named Jeanne.
Posted on

The Philip Frazer Line of North Roscommon Part 2

In my previous Blog, I started to look at some aspects of my Philip Frazer Line. I had a request to look into matches of the Taylor Line from Jeannette.

Here is Mary Taylor in my Ancestry Tree:

I believe that she married Philip who was the son of my 4th great-grandfather Philip Frazer born some time in the 1700’s. That means that Taylor is not known to be one of my own ancestors.

Here is Jeannette’s Tree:

It looks possible that the Mary in  my tree could be the daughter of Edward Taylor and Catharine. In fact, Ancestry is suggesting that couple. Here is a screen shot from that Jeannette’s tree:

If my dates are correct, then Catharine would have been 14 when she had Mary. That is not likely. Another possibility is that Edward had a wife before Catharine? Or Mary could be a cousin of the family above. Or some of the dates could be wrong.

Looking at the DNA

I think that I am better at the DNA than the genealogy – though both can be confusing. Jeannette had contacted me two years ago about a match that she had with my brother Jon. Actually, the match was between my brother Jon and Jeannette’s mother Dora. Here is what that looks like at Gedmatch:

These are two small matches. The matches are about 7 generations away. That would probably be in the mid 1700’s. Next, I can look at Jon’s DNA Painter Profile:

Unfortunately, I only have Hartley DNA painted on Chromosomes 3 and 15 for Jon. That means I would have to do some work to add some Frazer side matches for Jon. I do have an outdated spreadsheet of Jon’s DNA matches from 2018:

On Chromosome 3, Jon matches me on the paternal (blue) side, Jason on the maternal (pink) side and someone named Gloria. I couldn’t find Gloria at Ancestry. Perhaps the match did not make the cut.

Jon has some larger matches on Chromosome 15:

Unfortunately, none of these names sound familiar.

I can run at report at Gedmatch to find matches that are in common with Jon and Dora :

I recognize the first two people at least.

Barry and Ken both descend from Philip born in the 1700’s. I think that that Barry descends from Philip Frazer born about 1800. Barry’s brother Richard thinks that the elder Philip’s wife was a MacDonald. I am not so sure about that. However, it may be that Dora, Barry, Ken and Jon are related through the wife of the elder Philip.

However, there is a complicating factor in this in that Barry and I are also related on another Line:

This goes back even further to Archibald Frazer born 1720 and Mary Lilley. So that is possible, though less likely as a common ancestor couple.

I can add Jon’s match with Barry to DNA Painter:

I put the match in under Philip Frazer as the more likely common ancestor. Also, this match is to the right of Chromosome 15 where the match with Dora was on the left side of my match with Beth who matches me on my paternal side. .

Next, I add Ken’s match to Jon’s profile:

This match goes back to James Frazer born about 1804:

The fact that these matches do not overlap with the DNA match Jon has with Dora says we cannot prove a particular common ancestor.

My Sister Sharon and Clusters at Ancestry

Last year, I wrote a Blog on my sisters’ DNA Clusters. Here are some clusters between my sister Sharon and one of her Frazer cousins:

The second arrow is pointing to a small cluster. The second person in that Cluster is Alannah. She shows ancestry with a Johnston who married a Taylor. However, as I have many Johnston matches, the connection may be on that side. This is from Alannah’s Ancestry Tree:

Alannah shows Mary Frances Taylor born in Ireland and died in Perth. One shared match with Sharon and Allanah goes back to my McMaster Ancestry in the Kilmactranny, County Sligo area. So the connection may be on my McMaster side.

More on Richard

Here are Richard’s ThruLines up through the Philip who married Mary Taylor:

I have access to Richard’s DNA results at Ancestry which make me able to do this comparison. These matches are just Richard’s brother and his third cousin twice removed. Actually, when I expand the ThruLines, I see more connections:

When I create cluster between Richard and Fraser, I get this:

Here I see two major clusters. Then I see two clusters perhaps, within the first cluster. So what we are seeing here (in my opinion) is the double Frazer relationship that Richard and Fraser have.

Here is an old basic Frazer DNA Tree:

Richard and Fraser descend from what I can tell from the Philip and Archibald Frazer LInes. I descend from Philip and Richard Frazer. Archibald married Ann Stinson.

Interestingly, Patricia who is in the Cluster above has a Stinson from Roscommon in the maternal part of her tree:

That means that the Cluster 1a is likely Archibald Frazer, Cluster 1b is Stinson and Cluster 2 is Phlip Frazer.

Richard and His Taylor ThruLines

It would make more sense to look at these:

Richard has a nice network of Taylor descendant matches coming down from John Taylor.

Of course, this is based on Richard’s genealogy. Richard has that Mary was born when Edward Taylor was 36 and Edward would have been 52 when John was born.

For some reason, I get more ThruLines for Richard when I choose Edward’s wife Catharine:

This could be due to the way that Richard has his family tree set up. Here is what Richard has for Edward Taylor:

Usually when I evaluate ThruLines, I am evaluating them against my own tree. However, in this case, I would need to evaluate both trees.

Richard’s largest DNA match is with Cheryl. Richard and Cheryl have many shared matches. Other than Richard’s brother, there are 6 shared matches that have common ancestors:

  • Judith – shows as descending from John Taylor
  • Gerry – shows as descending from John Taylor
  • Jenna – shows as descending from John Taylor
  • Judy – shows as descending from John Taylor
  • Dana – Dana, child of Judith
  • Christina – shows as descending from Rebecca Taylor

Without doing all the genealogy, the DNA appears to tie this famiy together with Richard.

Pros and Cons

While it looks like Richard’s ThruLines connnects him with the Edward Taylor family, consider this. At the 5th cousin level, there are many possibilities for ancestors:

  • 1st cousins represent 4 ancestors
  • 2nd cousins – 8 ancestors
  • 3rd cousins – 16 ancestors
  • 4th cousins – 32 ancestors
  • 5th cousins – 64 ancestors

Edward Taylor and Catharine represent an ancestral pair, so at the 5th cousin level, Richard would have 32 ancestral pairs to consider. Here is Richard’s Family Tree from Ancestry:

Here are 16 ancestors, so this is at the third cousin level. Third cousins to Richard should have one of these 8 couples as common ancestors.

In Richard’s next generation out, the paternal side appears to be primarily or all Swedish:

That makes sense with what Ancestry has for Richard:

I see that Richard matchs Cheryl at the 4th cousin level:

So Cheryl would be Richard’s closest match on his ThruLines. Cheryl’s paternal side is Ireland and Englnad. Her maternal side looks to be Russian:

I do not see any Swedish sounding names.

Here is Richard’s maternal side at the fourth cousin level:

A cursory review seems to show that the best match is on the Taylor Line. However, Cheryl does not have her family tree past John Taylor, born 1821 in County Sligo, Ireland.

Erin from the Rebecca Taylor Line

Erin’s tree shows that she believes her ancestor to come from County Sligo also:

This is from Erin’s maternal side.

All this to say that it appears that Richard’s ThruLines for his Taylor side seems to be right:

Here is David’s Ancestry information on Catharine and the Taylor family:

He has Catharine giving birth to children when she was between the ages of 17 and 43. I believe that Richard has matches to distant relative descendants of Edward Taylor due to the fact that it was a successful family. By that I mean that there were a lot of descendants for Richard to match DNA with.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Based on Richard’s ThruLines, it would appear that he descends from the Taylor family.
  • Richard has proposed a reasonable timeline for Edward Taylor’s wife Catharine in which she could be giving birth to children.
  • My proposed genealogy does not show that I am descended from the Taylor family. I do have a match with Dora. That means that I could descend from a Taylor further back that I know of or that I am related to Dora somehow on another common line (also pretty long ago).
  • Unfortunately, I do not think that I she much light on Jeannette’s question. I suppose that there are two issues. One is whether Jeannette can show that she is related to the Taylors that Richard shows in his ThruLines. The other is whether Jeannette is related to the Frazers. I think that the answer in both cases could be yes. Unfortunately, the further one goes back, the more difficult it is to sort out the autosomal DNA. In addition, the effect of Protestants marrying within a relatively small gene pool in Ireland makes the DNA and genealogy confusing.

 

 

 

 

Posted on

Looking at My Philip Frazer Line

I recently had an some emails from two people who are on the Philip Frazer Line. This first email was from Jeanette:

Hello dear you both. I and my sister are matched with Kay from Australia. She and ourcommon matches show DNA on our third and seventh chromosomes. Estimated fourth or fifth Cousin.
There is also a Donald Hartley match.
Another match is with Janet Susan Fitzgerald (born Frazer). Her tree has Archibald Frazer born 1751 to 1835 whose father is James Frazer of Clerragh 1720 to 1835.
His father was Archibald 1690 to 1749.
I hope this is helpful in our quest to link Mary Taylor to the Frazer family.
I have written to Kay.
Sincerely Jeannette 

The second email was from Richard:

Hi Joel,

In light of Jeannette’s message advising of DNA linkages between her Taylor family and people in the Frazer line, I am forwarding my Frazer/Taylor conclusions for your consideration.  My conclusions are supported by immigration, settlement and naming information. I was launched on this path by a letter sent 50 years ago from my second cousin 3x removed, Muriel Lewis: “My grandmother, on my Mother’s side, Rebecca (Reba) Taylor married John Elliott.  This is why Myrtle [Muriel’s sister] was named Myrtle ‘Taylor’ Lewis.  My grandmother’s sister, a Taylor, married a Fraser, or Frazer [Mary Taylor m. Philip Frazer c. 1822??]”  

Based on that information, I looked into Rebecca Taylor and her relatives who immigrated in 1830 to North Elmsley Twp, Lanark County in what is now Ontario.

    • Edward Taylor (b. Sligo in 1764, d. 1845 in Lanark County ON) was the father of John Taylor (b. 1821 in Sligo) and William Taylor (b. 1829 in Sligo) and all of them immigrated in 1830 and settled near one another in Elmsley Twp, Lanark – includes Perth Ontario).  Edward’s wife was Catharine** (b. 1786 in Sligo, d. 1860 in Lanark ON, maiden name unknown).  I haven’t located their marriage record from Ireland.  In the 1851 Canada Census, Catharine, a widow, lived with John Taylor and his wife Elizabeth and their children Sarah and James.  William Taylor and his wife Margaret lived either in the same log house or next door.  John and William are both listed as farmers.  ** NOTE: most of the census records spell it as Catherine (the normal spelling) but her tombstone reads ‘Catharine.’ Jeannette advises that the Taylor descendants have spelled their Catharines with an ‘a’ in recognition of Edward Taylor’s wife Catharine
    • Rebecca Taylor (b. Sligo c 1814-1816, also immigrated to North Elmsley in 1830) married John Elliott in 1831.  Among their children in the 1851 Canada Census were Catherine Elliott (named after Rebecca’s mother?) and Edward Eilliott (named after Rebecca’s father?).  My conclusion is that Edward Taylor and Catharine _) were Rebecca’s parents – with John Taylor and William Taylor as her brothers.
    • Mary Taylor (b. Sligo in 1805) married Philip Frazer in 1822.  By 1830 they had at least three children and presumably were not interested in emigrating to Canada then.  They had at least two other children after 1830.  Since Mary Taylor is the only Taylor woman who married a Frazer in this family, I conclude that Mary Taylor and Rebecca Taylor were sisters, and that Edward Taylor and Catharine _ were Mary Taylor’s parents.
    • One of the daughters of Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor, Eliza Frazer (b. 1826 at Kilmactranny, Sligo) emigrated to Canada in 1842 (aged 16) but I don’t have any information on who she came with (no immigration records to Canada at that time).  In 1845, she married Courtney Colter in Smith’s Falls (Bathurst District, later Ontario) which is near North Elmsley.  Quite possibly Eliza Frazer stayed with her aunt Rebecca until she was married.  One of the witnesses to her marriage was John Taylor, presumably her uncle.  Eliza and Courtney’s children included Philip (b. 1848), John (b. 1850), William (b. 1852), Mary (b. 1856) and Rebecca (b. 1858), which reinforces the apparent connections to the Taylors.  The family relocated to Brant County, SW Ontario before the 1851 Canada Census – by the way, George Frasier, age 12, was living with Courtney and Eliza in 1851 – potentially our George James Fraser (?) who identified his parents as Philip Frazer and Mary Gray [either a later wife of Philip Frazer or a deliberate ‘error’ as George’s name is stated on the marriage register as John G. Frazer.  His bride, who was pregnant, misstated her parents’ names and they married in another town].
    • My gggrandmother, Ann Frazer (b. 1822 at Kilmactranny, Sligo) was the fourth child of Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor.  I don’t know when she immigrated to Canada but by 1851 her sister Eliza and family were living in Brant County, Ontario. Ann Frazer married Robert Johnston in Oxford County, Ontario (next door to Brant County) in 1853 (according to a Family Bible – no marriage record located yet). Among the children of Ann Frazer and Robert Johnston were Philip Frazer Johnston, Mary Jane Johnston, Rebecca Annie Johnston and Edward Taylor Johnston, providing additional reinforcement of the family relationships with the Taylors. 
    • Another Frazer sister, Rebecca2 (b. c 1837 in Ireland and perhaps named after her aunt Rebecca Taylor), later immigrated to Canada. In the 1861 Ontario Census, Rebecca (daughter of Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor) was living with her sister Ann Frazer, brother in law, Robert Johnston and family.  Rebecca Frazer married William Geddes in 1865, listing her parents as Philip and Mary (Taylor). Rebecca Frazer died in 1877 without children.

So that’s the plot line.  The more I think about it, the more likely it sounds.  If there is any documentation, it might be in Irish records but we know how scarce those are.

Jeannette and I would welcome your thoughts.

Richard 

Here is Richard in my Philip Frazer DNA Tree:

Now, I have that Philip above born about 1800 was the son of another Philip. He had two known sons who were Philip and James Frazer. I have that James Frazer married his first cousin Violet Frazer and that was the line I come from.

Confusingly the Jeanette in the tree above is a different Jeanette. The Jeanette that wrote has Taylor ancestry. I have that at least one Taylor married a Frazer.

The confusing part about this record is that there could be different interpretations. It could be that Philip born around 1800 or likely before married first Jane Johnston. She may have passed away and then Philip married secondly Mary Taylor.

I do have this transcribed record:

This is from a chronological compilation of Frazer records that were available several years ago. JDH is me and MFA is Michael, a Frazer descendant and researcher living in England.

The interpretation from that time appears to be that Jane Johnston married Philip, son of Philip in 1818, had one daughter with that wife named Jane in 1819.

I should note that Richard and Jeannette are looking at the Taylor family. I do not have any known relation to the Taylor family. However, the way the people intermarried, it would not be surprising if I was related in some way. That also means, that as I have no known connection to the Taylor line, it would not be surprising if my family had no matches with Taylor descendants who were not also Frazer desendants or related in some other way.

Also David

I also wrote a Blog about David recently as he shows at Ancestry as being related through the Philip Frazer Line:

David matches my sister Sharon at Ancestry. I notice that David also matches my brother Jim at Gedmatch. Jim tested at FTDNA but not at Ancestry. David is quite sure of his ancestry up through George James Frazer born 1841 in Sligo, but is not convinced that George James was the son of Philip. I had written a Blog about David recently here.

So What Is My Goal?

As I see it now, I have two goals. One goal is to see if Jeanette is related to the Frazers. The other is to see how David is related to the Frazer Line. Both of these goals seem to hinge on whether Philip Frazer who married Mary Taylor at the Kilmactranny Parish was the father of Ann Frazer and George James Frazer who moved to Ontario. I suppose a third goal is to improve my confort in the theory that Philip Frazer born some time between 1758 and 1776 was the father of Philip, George and James. James was my ancestor and Philip Junior the ancestor of the green tree above.

The Genealogy

It is well documented that Philip married first Jane Johnston and secondly Mary Taylor. These are recorded in lists of marriage license bonds and also Philip’s first marriage is recorded in the Kilmactranny Parish records. Here is Kilmactranny:

The dotted line is the border between County Sligo and County Roscommon.

That was Philip Junior and his marriages. Secondly, I have this genealogy from about 75 years ago:

Unfortunately for me, this does not show that James was a son of Philip. However, I believe that he was and the person doing the research was not aware that he was a son of Philip or did not want to empasize that as it would have shown that James married his 1st cousin Violet Frazer.

Third, I have the Tithe Applotment. These were taken probably in 1933 in Derrycashel. I have this from my Frazer Website:

My belief is that Georg, Philip and James Frazer were all the sons of Philip Frazer. In fact, the order may even indicate the birth order. I have these two Frazer  burial records from 1831:

My guess is that the William and George could be the same two listed in the Tithe Applotments above. One problem with that is that I have that the Tithe Applotment was in 1833 and these two deaths were two years earlier. This could be explained if:

  • The Tithe Applotment was taken earlier (say 1831) not published in 1833.
  • The Tithe Applotment knew these two were dead but still named William and George as the properties were still in the family.

Interesting, my 2nd great-grandfather was named George William born about 1838. I think that he could have been named for the George and William who died in 1831.

I know that my 2nd great-grandfather lived in Derrycastle. My Irish relatives even brought me to the property and showed me the house in 2004:

This may even have been the house of James’ father Philip.

Further I have that my ancestor James named his first son Philip. It was often customary for the father to name his first son after his father:

Here is the Philip Frazer genealogy from my Ancestry Tree:

YDNA Proves One of My Theories Wrong

I had written a Blog recently of how I felt that David fit into the Frazer tree and mentioned David above. It turns out that David tested at 23andMe and that company does a rough estimate of your YDNA. I found out very recently David’s YDNA haplogroup. The YDNA is very good at telling you what branch of mankind you are not in along with telling where you fit in. According to AI, there are now over 107,000 branches of YDNA.

David’s 23andMe estimate has him at R-S845. Here is what YFull, a YDNA analysis company shows:

This starts at the top right at “Genetic Adam”. Of importance along the way is the R1b Branch. R1b formed about 22,000 years ago according to YFull. The Frazer group that I belong to is from R1a which formed around the same time. That means that on the paternal only line, David and the North Roscommon, Ireland Frazers have a common ancestors also around that time – not closely related!

Here is SNP Tracker:

This shows that David’s paternal ancestors were likely in Ireland during Roman times.

Another interesting Haplogroup that David has is L21. This Haplogroup has been roughly associated with the Celtic peoples especially of Ireland, England and Scotland. If David was to do more YDNA testing, he would find out more about his paternal line.

For comparison, here is my known Frazer 2nd cousin at 23andMe:

Stan is my 2nd cousin. I am a Hartley and I come out as L21 (a closer match on my Hartley Line to David). Here is what YFull shows for R-L664:

The important difference is that my Frazer Line is from R1a as mentioned above. This R-L664 is still a pretty old Haplogroup going back 4,000 years or more. However, based on BigY testing at Family Tree DNA, we have Haplogroups that are much more recent:

At the bottom right is my second cousin Paul who I had tested and his 3rd cousin Rick. Their common ancestor is James Frazer born about 1804. The Haplogroup of R-Y85652 shows a common ancestor at about 1799 based on the YDNA testing alone.

Correcting the Frazer DNA Tree

When I had added LSW in 2020, I had noted that LSW did not have matches with the rest of the Philip Branch:

I also note that David has a good match with LSW, so for now, I will take off the George James Frazer Line from the Philip Branch.

I am now left with just the Johnston branch of the Philip Line.

Other Corrections

I can disconnect George James Fraser from my Ancestry Tree like this:

In Edit Relationships, I can just X out his mother and father. He will still be in my tree but not connected to my Frazer Line.

It does not look like I had added David’s matches to DNA Painter, so I do not to make any changes there.

Richard’s ThruLines

When I look at Richard’s ThruLines going back to his and my common ancestor of Philip Frazer, I see this:

Richard has his brother and Jeanette that he matches on the Philip Branch. Then he matches 7 people on the James Frazer Line where I am:

Richard matches sm and Gladys on the Richard Frazer Line.

On the George William Frazer Line, Richard matches me, my daughter, my sister, Karen and Mabel.

Richard’s Genealogy

One complicating factor is that Richard and I both have more than one Frazzer Line. Here is Richard’s Ancestry Tree:

Richard’s fourth great-grandfather was Philip Frazer born around 1776. This Philip is our common ancestor making Richard and me 5th cousins.

Richard also shows that he descends from Archibald Frazer and Ann Stinson:

However, I do not believe that I descend from that Line, so Richard and I would go back to the common ancestors of Archibald Frazer born about 1720 and Mary Lilley making us also 6th cousins.

Summary and Conclusions

  • The Blog was a bit long, so I need to break it up
  • I wrote a summary of where I see myself fitting into the Philip Frazer Line.
  • I was surprised to see that David is not a direct Frazer descendant. At least, not on the the line that I am looking at from North Roscommon. However, having said that, there is still some DNA connection.
  • One of my goals was to find out how David fit in to the Frazer Line. I found out based on his 23andMe YDNA Haplogroup that he does not fit in with my Frazer Line. David still may be interested in testing further on his YDNA Line to find out where his paternal line does fit in.
  • Even though I had thought that David should have fit into the Frazer Line, it is good to have certainty in knowing that he does not fit in rather than wondering whether he does or does not fit in.
  • I still have not looked closely into the Taylor Line. That will have to be in a later Blog.

 

 

Posted on

A Update of Frazers of Roscommon YDNA

I see that the last Blog I wrote on the YDNA of the Frazers of Roscommon was in 2023.

Why Is YDNA Important?

Autosomal DNA tests your matches to all lines going back in your family, but after a few generations the chances of matching dwindle:

YDNA testing is more laser specific. It will test the father to father to father line all the way down to what is called genetic Adam. When tested with other relatives, this will result in a YDNA Tree. In the case of Frazers, many have tested and there is already a tree at MyFTDNA:

Some things to note from the above Match Time Tree:

  • The above tree came out as expected in 2023. However, I was interested in 2023 to look at the time estimates
  • In the Match Time Tree above, I am represented by Paul, my 2nd cousin once removed who I had tested.
  • All these 7 BigY testers are believed to descend from Frazers. From Warren on down (Haplogroup R-FT421618), these Frazers have Irish ancestry.
  • Richard at the top of the list has American roots, so his Frazer ancestors probably came directly from Scotland perhaps around the time our ancestors moved from Scotland to Ireland:

 

  • If FTDNA is correct, and the common ancestor between Richard and the Irish (County Roscommon) Frazers is from 1455, then Richard’s ancestors could have come directly from Scotland to America.

Further:

Our believed Irish Frazer Common Ancestor was Archibald Frazer born possibly around 1690. An earlier date of 1625 could mean that the genealogy is off or that the YDNA estimate is off. This could be due to the fact that the previous common ancestor was estimated to be born in 1455.

This date of 1799 is very close to the birth date for my ancestor James Frazer of 1804 based on his age at death. James  Frazer is the common ancestor between Paul and Rick (see tree below).

Assuming the tree below is accurate, this suggests that Barker could descend from Archibald Frazer born 1792.

The estimated date for the common ancestor based on the BigY testing is 1869 compared to the genealogical date of 1836.

Here is a Tree I made for my last 2023 Frazer YDNA Blog:

However, this is subject to interpretation. As the Dingman Haplogroup goes all the way back to Archibald Frazer born about 1690, he could be theoretically from the James Line. Barker’s Haplogroup of R-Y151390 is the parent of R-FT521607. R-FT421607 represents Rodney and Jonathan who are known to be from the James Line of Frazers. However, notice that I do not have a genealogy for Barker as there were some questions on his genealogy. This is a case where the DNA testing is more clear than the genealogy.

DNA Relative David

I recently wrote a Blog based on autosomal DNA matching with David. Here is where I placed him on my Philip Frazer DNA Chart:

I believe that Philip Frazer at the top of tree was the son of another Philip Frazer who also had James Frazer born about 1804. This James was my ancestor. After talking to David, I suggested that taking a YDNA test would be helpful. David is important as he is the only known direct male Frazer/Fraser descendant on this Philip Line. Martha comes down from the Kennedys, Richard and Barry are from the Johnstons, Jeanette is also from the Johnstons, LSW is from the Watts and David is from the direct male Fraser/Frazer side. As a direct male Frazer descendant, he is the only known male eligible at this time for YDNA testing. None of the other people from the green tree above carry the Frazer YDNA.

David’s expected line is here:

I believe that David descends from Philip born 1800. David is a cautious genealogist which is commendable and is skeptical of his ancestry before George James Frazer born 1841 in Sligo.

It is difficult to predict the results, but here are some possibilities if David were to take the BigY test:

  • If David comes out as Y85652, that would mean that Philip was the first person to have that Haplogroup and that there were no changes between Philip and son James. I think that this could be a likely scenario
  • If David comes out with a new Haplogroup, that would mean that my ancestor James Frazer would have been the first to have Y85652.
  • David’s results may also be helpful to Dingman and clarify his Haplogroup which is now the same as our first Irish Frazer Common ancestor, Archibald Frazer born about 1690.

Also note that now the Achibald Frazer Line (born about 1715) only has one new Haplogroup since the common ancestor of the whole Irish Frazer group. This is despite having three BigY tested peole on the Archibald Line. The James Line (born about 1720) has also three BigY tested people and has two new Haplogroups. This means that if David takes the BigY test, it is possible that we will find a new Haplogroup on the Archibald side.

Frazer STRs

I hesitate to mention Frazer STRs, but they are also a measure of YDNA. Some people like to ignore them as they can be difficult to interpret compared to the SNP part of YDNA. The reason for this is that values could go up or down over time and as we don’t know what happened with these STRs in past generations, they could lead to ambiguous conclusions. However, I think that STRs are important. MyFTDNA has a Fraser project with a small group (our group) of Frazers in a section called R1a1. Out of the over two thousand Frazers tested in the group, there are only 11 in the Frazer project in the R1a1 group:

My cousin Paul is 444958 and his third cousin once removed, Rick, is above Paul:

If David tests his YDNA, his STR profile should be similar to Paul and Rick’s. I believe that David is a fourth cousin to Paul.

Here are some of the 111 STR markers typically tested:

The third row is the median value. So the fourth marker has a median value of 10. Paul and Rick have a mutation to 11. It is possible that David could also have a value of 11 at this marker – highlighted in pink. The same for the last marker shown. The median value is 35-39. Paule and Rick have a value of 35-40 or an extra mutation at that marker.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to update a previous Blog from almost three years ago on YDNA from the Frazers of North Roscommon, Ireland
  • The Time Tree at FTDNA came out as expected.
  • I noted the dates for the common ancestors of the Haplogroups. These were generally fairly close to the actual common ancestors where those common ancestors were known.
  • I focused some of David who is believed to be a Frazer descendant of the line from Philip Frazer born around 1775 down to his son Philip born about 1800.
  • David is an excellent candidate for YDNA testing. His testing would show how he fits in to the Frazer family from North Roscommon, Ireland.
  • I should note that David’s and my ancestors came from Sligo. That is because the area in Sligo that they came from was adjacent to North Roscommon.

 

 

 

 

Posted on

DNA Matches for My Childrens’ Maternal Warren Side

My children’s maternal side is Polish, English, Irish, and French Canadian. I wrote a Blog on my children’s clusters in 2025, but only looked at their Morrow side.

The Genealogy

Here is my children’s maternal genealogy:

  • Roughly 1/2 Polish – Jarek
  • 1/4 French Canadian (Morrow and Tacy – though those surnames are anglicized)
  • 1/8 Irish (Warren – previously thought to be Cavanaugh)
  • 1/8 English – Gatley

The Clusters

Here are my daughter’s Standard Clusters:

I took a guess on the Maternal Grandmother part and was wrong. See how closely these two are related. These are both Polish Clusters. So perhaps Jarek and Wozniak. It appears that no maternal grandmother clusters are available at this level. Here is one person I recognize from the third cluster:

He is also from Jarek, but a generation back. Here are the ranges for the Standaard Clusters:

Here are Heather’s corrected standard clusters:

Let’s see if my son’s standard clusters are any different:

Here I have filtered for the maternal only clusters. It is basically the same as my daughter’s but my son has more of the recent matches and less of the older matches.

Warren Clusters

I worked on Morrow Clusters in my previous Blog, I’ll look at Warren Clusters now. Here are some of my son JJ’s ThruLines:

The closest match to JJ is a 4th cousin:

However, there is another 4th cousin on the Hazel Sullivan Line with a larger DNA match:

I’ll pick Robin as the focus person for JJ’s clusters. I’ll also add the other four in:

I will choose 20 – 100 cM for the match level:

After going through all that, I get only the people I put into the cluster. I assume that means that that is all there is. This is a case where clusters are not very helpful

Shared Matches

I pay $10 per month for these so let’s look at JJ and Robin’s Shared Matches:

Here are nine matches instead of 4, so this is clearly better than the Clusters.

I also have this Sullivan DNA tree:

It looks like I am missing Cedar. Also, my DNA tree does not match ThruLines. Robin should not be Autumn’s mother. This should be more accurate:

 

Shared Match Jacqueline

Ancestry has her has a grand niece or half niece to Robin. My guess is a grand niece as she shows her grandparents as still being alive in her tree.

Shared Match Michael

Michael shows his mother as a Sullivan:

Sullivan is a pretty common name, but I can add it to my tree as a floating tree and see if it matches up. Michael’s tree does not show his parents married, but I assume that they were. When I add them as married, I find an obituary for Dorothy:

Here is Linwood, New Jersey:

Dorothy’s sister was Elizabeth Fitzpatrick.

This must be the family in 1940:

Dorothy’s mother, Sarah was born in Massachusetts.

This Social Security record for Elizabeth is helpful:

Here is another Social Security record tying Sarah back to Lowell, MA:

James was listed as a musician when he married:

Charles Sullivan and Mary Smith marry in Lowelll in 1893. This brings me back to the tree that I have.

I need to merge this Charles Sullivan with the one in my floating tree:

Now I can add Michael to my children’s Warren DNA Tree:

I can see an error in my existing tree as Francis must have been born much later than 1835. That should be 1865. Civil War Time (or right after).

This shows that Michael and JJ are fourth cousins. Michael and Robin are third cousins. The DNA match between Michael and JJ and the fact that Michael’s mother was a Sulllivan gave me some certaintly that the trees would match up and they did.

The Warren DNA Tree is heavily weighted toward the Sullivan side:

It seems like there should be more DNA matches out there somewhere:

I have that Jeremiah Warren had 7 children, but the matches only show through two of the children: Bridget and John. Also, John Wareen had 5 children, but I have not seen matches between my children’s ancestor John Edward Warren Cavanaugh and any of the other 4 siblings. When I looked into the 4 siblings, it appeared that they all died single except for Thomas. However, Thomas married at age 17 and died less than a year later. That would explain a lack of DNA matching.

JJ and Tricia

JJ and Robin have a shared match named Tricia:

Above is Tricia’s paternal side tree. I could get Tricia into my tree by use of a floating tree, but I will try a lazier way. When I choose Mary Briere from Tricia’s tree and hit the Ancestry search button, I see this:

When I choose shared matches for Tricia and JJ and sort by closest matches to Tricia, I see that Eileen is a fairly close match to Tricia at 720 cM. Here is Eileen’s tree:

Eileen’s mother is Norma Golden, so my guess is that Norma is the sister of Francis Golden born 1930. Looks like I don’t have much information on Blanche Sullivan in my Ancestry Tree:

I can fix that quickly. Here is the marriage record:

The 1930 Census fills in some details for children:

With the 1940 Census for Lowell, we can add in Norma:

I’ll just add Tricia to my Warren DNA Tree:

Tricia is Eileen’s 1st cousin once removed and JJ’s 4th cousin once removed.

Heather’s Warren DNA

 I can follow the same logic for Heather:

Heather has a closer match with Eileen. Clustering with Eileen only produced 4 matches. However, as before, shared matches with Eileen was much more helpful:

This is an interesting list. However, Dany shows as a possible Tessier connection:

I’ll ignore Dany and his small DNA match right now and look at Kevin who has a 21 cM DNA match with Heather:

The pateral side of Kevin’s tree goes back to George D Sullivan. It turns out that I have this George in my Ancestry Tree already:

Kevin’s father Jerrold should be in the 1950 Census:

He must be Jerry.

I already have Kevin on my Warren DNA Tree, so I don’t need to add him. However, his father is in my Tree now.

Heather’s next shared match is Julie. However, her ancestors appear to be from Canada. Heather’s next shared match Chantel has ancestry from Canada and England. JJ had fewer shared matches but fewer confusing ones also. Lexie also has Canadian ancestors. Lisa has a good tree, but again no Irish ancestry shown. Suzanne’s ancestors also have French sounding names. I assume that Eileen’s French Canadian heritage is somehow mixed in to her connection on the Warren side. Heather has some French Canadian ancestry and no apparent Irish ancestry. Michael also has French Canadian ancestry.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I had thought that Clusters would be helpful in identifying Warren relative DNA matches. It turns out that my son’s Shared Matches were more helpful. I had also thought that my daughter’s Shared Matches to a Warren relative would be helpful. However, they resulted in a lot of French Canadian relatives for some reason.
  • In any event, my Ancestry Tree on my children’s maternal side was improved and my Wareen DNA Tree was improved.
  • I found out why there were no further matches on the John Warren/Bridget Welch Line. Apparently there were no further offspring other than from John Warren/Cavanaugh.
  • Jeremiah Warren and Mary Kelly had other children. However, my Warren DNA Tree does not show matches with any of their offspring. Perhaps there were not many offspring or they didn’t have their DNA tested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted on

Checking a Nicholson Common Ancestor from My Sister

My sister has an interesting possible Nicholson common ancestor with a match at Ancestry. This is how it looks:

Maybe I have looked at this before as it appears I must have Edward Percy Fenn in my Ancestry Tree. However, I do not see this in my Nicholsono DNA Tree:

My DNA Tree only shows descendant from three children of Matthew Nicholson born 1798. Those are Henry, Lydia and William.

I was able to find a better Nicholson Chart on my laptop which I emailed to my home computer:

In addition to William Nicholson, this Tree has the Matthew children Henry, John, Sarah and Lydia. This probably explains why I was researching the John Clayton Nicholson Line in the past.

Working on AE’s Genealogy

Here is the paternal part of AE’s tree:

One of AE’s great-grandfathers is listed as Edward Penelope Fenn. I’m not sure the Penelope part is right as I have Percy as a middle name. At this point, I have a two generation gap between AE and Edward Fenn. I would recommend finding out more about Edward Fenn. This is what I have now in my tree:

Death records would be helpful:

As the mother and father information mathces with what I have, I feel like I am on the right track. This seems to be about all I can find easily.

Updating the Nicholson DNA Tree

This is how I see it:

When I check AE and Lori’s shared matches, I don’t see MR but I do see someone who has no tree with the surname of Colton. That shows up a typo on my Nicholson DNA Tree. George Cotton should be George Colton.

Summary and Conclusions

  • AE’s two missing generation of ancestors between him and Edward Fenn made the analysis a little difficult
  • However, I did not have to go back many generations. I already had the genealogy up to Edward Fenn but with not many details.
  • The more branching I have, the more likely the Nicholson DNA Tree is right.
  • The tree is also supported by shared matches.

 

 

Posted on

My Brother’s Potential Hathaway Common Ancestor at Ancestry

I like looking at Ancestry’s potential common ancestors at Ancestry. In this case, my brother Jon’s DNA match is with Anita. The part which is less sure is the genealogy. Even if the genealogy is right, there is a chance that the DNA/genealogy connection could be with another ancestor. However, the fact that there is a DNA connection makes it more likely that there is a discernable genealogical connection.

Anita and Jon

Anita and Jon are shown as 6th cousins. This is as far out as these Ancestry connections go.

Shared Matches

Next, I like to check shared matches:

Dawn is a shared match. She also has a Hathaway common ancestor as Harvey Bradford married Wealthy Hathaway. This is what one genetic genealogist called walking back.

Here is the Meribah Hathaway Line from my Hathaway DNA Tree:

Jon’s ThruLines

This gets a little confusing becuase Holly, MM, and Eric are also 2nd cousins on my Hartley side. Even more confusing, if I go back far enough we are again related on the Jenney side.

John Jenney is my 10th great-grandfather and I think that this couple would be another distant pair of common ancestors.

Anita’s Genealogy

Here is Anita’s tree at Ancestry:

According to Ancestry, I should look at the Morse to Shaw Line. I can create a floating tree for Anita and then connect it to my tree assuming the genealogy looks good.

Anita already has found her dad in the 1920 Census:

I

Foster L’s father was a farm laborer in 1920 and the family lived in Acushnet. Here is Wing Road, Acushnet, though Wing may have gone further down where Hathaway is now:

It would make sense to find a wedding record to confirm Anna’s maiden name.

The couple get married in Rochester, MA in 1913 even though they live in Marion, MA.

Anna is born in North Carver.

Marion has a record of the marriage also, so perhaps the marriage did take place in Marion:

Annie was born in 1890 in Carver:

 

Annie’s mother was born in Mattapoisett:

Betsey Nye marries in Carver in 1890:

The marriage is said to be the first, but the fact that Betsey’s maiden name is given tells me otherwise:

Here is Betsey’s death record:

This information from findagrave.com seems to clarify thing:

Aged 49 yrs. 9 mos. & 21 d’s

1st married to Manuel Gonsalves on Aug. 23, 1881 in Mattapoisett, MA.
2nd married to Ezra Shaw [son of Samuel Shaw and Fanny Borden] on Sept. 21, 1890 in Middleboro, MA. He died Aug. 15, 1893 in Carver, MA.
3rd married to Francis L. Nye on Sept. 9, 1899 in Mattapoisett, MA.

Here is what I have starting with Anita’s grandmother:

Another confusing point is that I am looking for the Hathaway line and Mary J Nye was a Hathaway. She was the daughter of Betsy Hathaway:

Mary did not name a father on the marriage record in Mattapoisett in 1857. Joseph Nye was listed as a mariner at the time of marriage. This is the page for Hathaway births in Rochester:

I wonder who Betsey’s parents were and what happened to her?

Mary Jane’s death record gives little information:

As far as I know, I am not as closely related to the Mattapoisett Hathaways. My Hathaways lived in Wareham.

Connecting Joseph Nye to Mother Anne Jenney

This would connect my floating tree to my Ancestry Tree. Here is Joseph’s birth:

Here is Anne Jenney from my Tree:

I am pretty sure it is OK to connect the two, but I will look for some more evidence. This 1872 death record for Mattapoisett is enough to convince me:

The Hathaway DNA Tree

Here is my Ancestry Tree in vertical view:

According to this view, Mary Jane has her first child when she was 17:

Technically, Mary Jane was 16 when she married:

Here is part of my Hathaway DNA Tree showing that Anita and I are 6th cousins:

Summary and Conclusions

  • This was an interesting excercise going back to Mattapoisett. A single parent child marries young, has a child young and her husband is a mariner. Hopefully she had otherh family and/or community support
  • Anita and I have quite a bit in common. We both had parents born in 1918.
  • We descend from siblings born a year apart: Meribah Hathaway in 1770 and Joseph in 1771 – both before the Revolutionary War.
  • Both Anita’s family and my family seem to have stayed in SE Massachusetts.
  • These common ancestor excercises are good in that they do not take too long and they improve my understanding of a family line’s genealogy as well as local history.

 

Posted on

An Ancestry-Proposed Snell Common Ancestor

I have a lot of fun looking at proposed Ancestry Common Ancestors. Sometimes they are obvioius. Sometimes they bring me through murky genealogical areas. Let’s see where this one brings us:

The match is not close and the common ancestors go back to the 1700’s. This shows that Ed and I are 5th cousins once removed. Here is Ed’s part of my Snell ThruLines at Ancestry:

Ed should be E.G.’s 2nd cousin twice removed. This shows E.G. is as shared match between Ed and me:

That means the DNA supports the theory that Ed should also descend from Anthony Snell. Ed should fit in on the right side of this part of my Snell DNA Tree:

Here is Ed’s Ancestry Tree:

It looks on the surface to be a well researched tree.

Ed’s Floating Tree

The proper way to evaluate Ed is to create a floating tree for him in my tree and then connect him when I see that the connection is appropriate. Based on the shared DNA, it seems likely that he would be connected. According to Ed’s tree, his father was born in New Jersey and died in Germany:

I don’t see Ed listed in the obituary. Is he the same as Derek? Edward T was listed as Edward W in the 1950 Census:

At this point, we need to follow wife Marie’s line going back. Marie’s obituary gives me a head start:

I highlighted the most interesting part to me for the purposes of this Blog.

Here is Marie in 1930:

Marie’s father worked at an iron foundry. Notice that Marie’s Uncle Chester Snell lived with them. He was an attendant at a service station.

Here is an odd marriage article from 1920 that highlights the pastor instead of the bride:

Ruby was a newborn in 1905. Her father was a farm laborer.

Ruby remarries in 1951 and gives her parents’ names:

I see her father as Percy E Snell, but it is transcribed as Percy Ednell.

Here is the 1900 Census for Landis, New Jersey:

Unfortunately, it straddles a page. Percy’s father was a farmer.

This shows as E. Landis Ave., but I think it is the right vicinity:

Here I have built out Ed’s tree to Charles Snell:

That is the floating tree. I have to connect this to my tree:

Just to make sure, here is Charles’ marriage record from 1860 in West Roxbury when he was an iron monger:

I successfully merged the two Charles Snell.

Updating the Snell DNA Tree

Summary and Conclusions

  • It is interesting to see how different Snell lines diverged
  • It looks like I am missing a line under the Anthony Snell 1802 line. This is due to my computer and laptop not being synced.

  • My only question in the connectiion is between Ed and his father. However, I do not usually question these relationships as I assume that people know who their father is.
  • A shared match between Ed and EG made it highly likely that this connection was correct even before checking the genealogy.