Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree and ThruLines

I have been building DNA/Genealogy Trees for my ancestors that have ThruLines that i have verified. On my Hartley side, I have looked at:

  • Hartley
  • Hathaway
  • Snell
  • Parker
  • Hatch
  • Howorth
  • Churchill
  • Cowen

I do not think that I have looked at Luther.

My Luther Genealogy

My great-grandmother Annie Snell was the daughter of a Bradford and a Snell. Luther is on the Snell side. Benjamin Luther and Rebecca Trafton were my 5th great-grandparents. They lived in Dighton, Massachusetts.

Luther ThruLines

I’ll start with my own:

ThurLines think that I match up with Lynn via Lynn’s ancestor Polly Luther. Polly is in white which means that she is already in my Tree. However, it seems as Polly may have married a Simmons:

A few of my siblings have the same ThruLine with Lynn.

Joyce’s Luther ThruLines

Because my father’s cousin Joyce is a generation back, she should have more Luther ThruLines and she does:

Joyce even has a ThruLine going back a generation:

I checked on my father’s other 1st cousin Maury’s ThruLines, but he doesn’t show any on the Luther side.

Joyce and DVanderzell

I’ll start on the oldest ThruLine. DVanderzell’s Tree matches the ThruLine conclusions:

The tree above has Susannah and the ThruLine has Sukey which I take to be the same person.

I’ll start a quick tree to check DVanderzell’s Tree. Winston was born in Taunton, MA. From Winston’s birth record, his father was from Dighton, MA:

The family soon moved to Montclair, NJ:

Here is the previous generation in Dighton, MA:

So far, the tree is checking out:

I am now looking for Jonathan Hathaway:

The family was in Dighton in 1850:

Jonathan to Susannah Sukey Talbot

From Jonathan’s death record, we see his mother is Susan:

At this point, I may want to attack the question from both ends. By that, I mean from the Jonathan end as well as the Sarah Luther side. I do have that Sarah married in 1773. I could go out on a limb and guess that she may have been born around 1753.

One reference to Susannah had this:

Here is the record for Sukey Talbot:

So there are two Jonathan Hathaways.

Sukey Talbot to Sarah Luther

The female connections are more difficult due to the name changes. I have this record from Dighton:

That means that all I am missing is a birth record for Susannah or Sukey Talbot. Here is the missing link:

A First Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree

Here Joyce and DVanerzell show as 6th cousins which agrees with the Ancestry ThruLines.

Joyce and Pat (Sally Luther Line)

Pat has a good tree, but the line diverges at Polly Sartwell:

Pat has her mother as Martha Goodenough. In addition, in my own tree, I have that Sally Luther married James Spooner. I am tempted to pull the plug on Pat for now.

Joyce and RWU12 (Gardner Luther)

RW’s tree diverges before Gardner Luther II:

Here are the Dighton records:

I am trying to figure out how to interpret this. It appears that Gardner Luther in my tree married a Nancy Horton in 1803. He then dies in 1825. Then there is a second Gardner Luther in Dighton. He dies in 1809. I am guessing that he is the son of the other Gardner and that this Gardner was born in 1807 and died in 1809. Then there appears to be a question as to whether the first Gardner Luther married a Nancy Horton or a Nancy Kelton.

I am now cutting corners to save time:

This Gardner is interesting because his parents were Gardner and Nancy Luther. He dies in 1875 on November 6, so would be born around 1809. Also this:

All this leads to the possibility that the ThruLine could be right.

I’ll start a quick tree for RW:

RW’s mother’s birth record was amended, so is not yet available. I’ll have to assume that RW knew who his grandparents were. Here is RW’s 15 year old grandfather in 1900 in Swansea:

At this point, I am checking into Elizabeth from the above Census.

Here is a 1907 North Attleborough Marriage record for William giving his mother’s name as Elizabeth Willmarth:

Here is a good hint. In 1880, Elizabeth was listed as the granddaughter of a Luther:

I got this 1906 Swansea marriage from RW’s tree:

I’ll just take it on face value. My tree is following RW’s so far:

Here is Mary’s marriage record:

Turns out Clement was quite a bit older than Mary and this was her second marriage.

Here two Luthers married.

Here is the family in 1850 in Swansea:

This could be Mary’s first marriage:

Here is the family in 1855:

This proves that the marriage between Mary Luther and Josiah Tucker above was correct.

Gardner dies in 1886 in Swansea and gives the names of Gardner and Mary Luther for his parents who are both said to have been born in Swansea:

Now we have come full circle, however, I had Gardner Sr. marrying a Nancy, so the death record could be wrong?

I have shown a connection from this Gardner to the elder Gardner and that the younger Gardner lived in Swansea most of his life.

Updating the Luther Tree

I gave the chart some color so it wouldn’t just be boring gray. RWU shows as a 5th cousin once removed to Joyce. This is also what the ThruLine suggested, so it checks out. The only thing I didn’t check into was who was the Charlotte Luther who married Gardner Luther?

Joyce and Lynn (Polly Luther Line)

Now we are back to Lynn:

The maternal side of Lynn’s tree agrees with the ThruLine – going back to our common ancestors:

All I need to do now is to build a parallel tree to Lynn’s to see if it checks out. This tree is starting out in Arkansas. I am having a little trouble finding Leatrice. I would think that she would be easy to find, but sometimes with a different name, the name is miss-spelled. Here is the 1930 Census:

I found this in the hints on the ThruLines. Leatrice is here transcribed as Leatrei. In addition, the last name is transcribed as Tolbert. The father was a school instructor and his family was from Mississippi.

Here is Marcus in 1900 in Mississippi:

Marcus’ father was a farmer (I don’t show but he was on the previous page). His father was from Massachusetts. Bingo.

 

The transcriber gives the father’s first name as Allen which I can now see. The mother is Telisia or something similar. I have seen that name before.

The Census records help me quickly build a parallel tree for Lynn:

Here is Allen with his family in 1850:

I don’t know much about Mississippi, but Marshall County where they lived is not too far from Memphis:

I am guessing Ephraim moved South before marrying as his wife was from Tennessee.

Talbot to Luther?

We are trying to figure out if Ephraim’s mother was Polly Luther. This record from Dighton is helpful:

Next, I just have to figure out if Marcy is the same as Polly. She is:

I assume that I got the name Polly from a genealogy book. It is confusing and I should put her name back to Mary. My understandiing is that Molly is a nickname for Mary which sometimes was changed to Polly.

Last Tree Update – for Now

Here is the new and improved Luther Tree:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Out of the 4 Luther Lines I looked into, I was able to make connections on three
  • The Luther Line has a rich heritage and history in the part of Massachusetts around Swansea and Dighton.
  • This is my first Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree and verifies the Ancestry ThruLines
  • Using DNA plus genealogy is a powerful tool in creating surname trees.

 

 

My Churchill ThruLines

I have been going through my ThruLines and updating or creating DNA/Genealogy Charts for them. In this Blog, I’ll look at my Churchill ThruLines. The people who have tested in my family are:

  • my three sisters, one brother and me
  • my father’s cousin Joyce
  • my father’s cousin Maury

My Churchill Genealogy

The Churchills are related to my Pilgrim Bradford genealogy:

My great-grandmother Annie Snell had the Pilgrim ancestry on her mother’s side. Lucy Churchill married Samuel Bradford who was a descendant of Governor Bradford of the Mayflower. Lucy lived in Plymouth, MA. Her parents were Stephen Churchill and Lucy Burbank. As I recall, Stephen Churchill was a cooper by trade or a barrel maker in the Colonial Town of Plymouth. According to Wikipedia:

 Churchill ThruLines

My sister Lori has the most Churchill ThruLines with two, though the level of DNA matches are low:

The names Peleg and Heman are in white which means they are already in my tree.

Stephen had a big family which is good for producing descendants and ThruLines.

Lori and Herb

Ancestry wants me to evaluae Herb’s connection. Here is what Herb shows for his paternal side tree:

Herb shows the father being from Plymouth, so hopefully that will be easy to track. There appears to be some confusion in herb’s father already. The ThruLines have Elmer C P Chandler and herb’s tree has Elmer Carlton Paul. I did find this record from WWII:

The 1930 Census for Kingston, MA could give an explanation:

Elmer is living with his grandparents and their last name is Paul.

The Social Security record is helpful:

It appears that Eva may have married a Gomes based on the 1945 record above. Of the trees that I have found, this one seems to make the most sense to me:

Here we have the three generations of Elmes Chandlers.

In support of the genealogy, I notice that my father’s 1st cousin Joyce also has a small match with herb:

With that in mind, I continue. This is the Tree I have so far that I would like to get up to Peleg Churchill:

James Chandler to Eliza Churchill

James Chandler was living in Duxbury, MA as a shoemaker in 1860:

Here is Eliza in 1850 in Duxbury, MA:

Her husband appears to be a Hatter.

Eliza Churchill to Peleg Churchill

I am having trouble finding a record to connect these two people. I did find this under a Mayflower Application:

This application was approved in 1921. That genealogy check did not go as smoothly as I had hoped.

My First Churchill DNA/Genealogy Tree

Churchill gets overshadowed due to the Bradford connection. I have tended to focus in more on the Bradford Lines in the past.

Lori and Butterflies on the Heman Churchill Line

That is an interesting heading name. My goal is to prove or disprove this connection:

This is the extent of butterflies’ maternal line in the direction I an interested in:

I will likely be looking for the wife of William Evans on the top right of her tree. I’ll start my own tree for butterflies to see if I can verify the 200 years of genealogy back to our common ancestors.

Beverly’s father Roger was a printer in New London, CT:

It is helpful to now have the 1950 Census to look at.

Roger’s father William was born in New York and was a caretaker at New London Parks:

I next want to follow Ruby or Ruba:

Based on this, I’m willing to accept the Ancestry hints:

Evans to Churchill

Here is someone’s transcription of a newpaper article:

Here Theodore is said to be the son of Jane A Churchill. However, my Ancestry hint has this:

However, the 1850 Census has Theodore’s father from Wales:

I accepted the Ancestry hint for William Evans and Jane Churchill.

Jane to Heman Churchill

This connection is mentioned in many genealogies, but what is the evidence? In Heman’s will, he only mentions two daughters, but not Jane:

That did not mean that he did not have other children. It turns out that Heman who was also a cooper owed a lot of people a lot of money and was also insolvent like his brother Peleg.

It appears that Haman had a lot of deaths in the family:

This was from:

Massachusetts: Vital Records, 1620-1850 (Online Database: AmericanAncestors.org, New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2001-2016).

https://www.americanancestors.org/DB190/i/14012/503/253533102

Heman apparently belonged to the Baptist Church. I don’t know if that makes finding the records more difficult.

This Ancestry Tree has this summary for Heman Churchill:

Unfortunately, at this point, I am stuck. Jane Churchill Evans has that she was born in New York. The Jane Churchill I am looking for should have been born in Massachusetts as that is where Heman Churchill lived to my knowledge. So I have not proved or disproved the connection.

Joyce and Patricia

I’ll take a look at this ThruLine:

Joyce and Patricia share a pretty good DNA match for 5th cousins. I will try to prove or disprove Patricia’s connection to my family via Jocye:

Here is what Patricia shows on her paternal side:

The ThruLines want me to head toward Ellen Augusta Leach. I see from the 1920 Census that John’s mother’s parents were born in Massachusetts:

Also the name Earle comes up in that Census.

Here is the family in 1880 in San Francisco:

I’m cutting corners a little, but I feel like Patricia’s tree is right and plus Slade above was born in Massachusetts. However, it is really his wife Ellen that I am interested in.

Now my tree looks a little more like Patricia’s:

I need to see if the Churchill connection is right. Slade and Ellen married in 1864 in Lynn, MA:

Ellen was from Plymouth originally and her mother was also an Ellen. Here is a summary of the Leach family in 1850:

Here is the marriage from 1830:

At this point, I am on track with the ThruLines:

Fortunately, Ellen’s father left a will where he clearly states that Eleanor was his daughter:

This Daniel was also a cooper.

I already have Daniel in my family tree, so I’ll add him to my Churchill DNA/Genealogy Chart:

So now I have gone up the genealogy and back down again. Patricia matches Joyce and I don’t have her on my chart. Also I need to fix my side of the chart:

Joyce and Laura

Joyce and Ashley have a large match, because the major match is on Joyce’s paternal side. That is the side that she is not related to me. So I’ll go with Laura. Laura has a large tree:

Unfortunately, her tree diverges at the point of her paternal grandmother. That could make the connection difficult as I would think that Laura would know her grandmother.

Here is the family in 1920 in Penobsctot, ME:

It looks like there was anothegenr Joseph Fernald Leach born in Abington, MA. That appears to be the confusion in the trees, so I will not bother to pursue this further.

Other Churchill ThruLinMes

Maury is my father’s 1st cousin (like Joyce). As such, his Churchill ThruLines go back an additional generation. However, my second cousin manages his DNA and does not have the Churchills in his ancestry. So he doesn’t show any Churchill ThruLines.

I’ll show Joyce’s ThruLines going back one generation:

This family did not hold back on the obscure names. How many people can say they have a Zadock in their ancestry?

Joyce and L.B

I’ll give this a shot. James shows a possible 6th cousin to Joyce on Joyce’s paternal side also – the side I am not related on.

LB’s tree is mostly filled out in the direction of Bathsheba Churchill. As usual, I will build out a tree, to see if I can get to Bathsheba and Zadock Churchill.

I found a birth record for Florence:

Her mom checks out as Annie L. Nelson.

Here is the marriage record for Annie:

Here is the family in 1880 in Androscoggin, ME:

That Census also gave me an approximate birthdate for Sally or Sarah:

Sarah’s death record gives her father’s name:

Here is the family in 1850 in Buckfield, ME:

There is also a Thankful on the next page. Miles was born in Massachusetts which is a good sign. Miles was born in Middleborough, MA:

This Thomas ended up in Buckfield, ME:

I see they have a Zadoc and a Bathsheba Churchilll Bearce in the family which is a good sign.

From Colonial Families of the USA, 1607-1775:

Bathsheba to Zadock

Here is an approved Mayflower application from 1929:

This seems to tie the loose ends together.

Here is the amended and corrected Churchill DNA/Genealogy Tree:

I previously had Stephen Churchill born 1743 married to Hannah Barnes, so I corrected that mistake.

Do Joyce and Diana Have Churchill Common Ancestors?

ThruLines has Diana going back to a Polly Churchill. I do not appear to have Polly in my tree. Diana shows her paternal grandfather being from Plymouth County, Massachusetts:

I’ll create my own tree to see if the ThruLines make sense.

Here is Edwin’s birth record in Middleborough, MA:

His mother is recorded as Mary Dixon, born in Plymouth. Here is the family in Plymouth:

Jacob’s marriage record gives his father’s name:

In 1850 Plymouth, Samuel was a cooper:

According to Samuel’s death record, his mother was Mary Churchill:

Here is part of Stephen Churchill’s will from 1821:

In it, he names Stephen Jr., Lucy, Hannah, Meriah, Nancy, Sally, Polly and Betsy, Heman and Daniel. I have that Peleg died in 1810 which would be why I don’t see him here.

Finishing the Churchill DNA/Genealogy Tree (for Now)

Here my Churchill Tree is filling out nicely:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to add three lines under Stephen Churchill born 1743
  • I previously did not have the Line of Polly Churchill born 1786
  • I tried to connect a proposed descendant of Heman Churchill, but that proved tooo difficult
  • I add one Zadock Line. Zadock was the son of an earlier Stephen Churchill born 1717 in Plymouth.
  • My father’s cousin Joyce was helpful in most of these matches

My Cowen/Cowing ThruLines

My Massachusetts genealogy has two sides. One side is my Pilgrim ancestors and the other side is my non-Pilgrim ancestors:

My great-grandmother Annie Louisa Snell was the source of my Massachusetts heritage. Her maternal side was the non-pilgrim ancestry and the bottom side or maternal side of the tree above was the Pilgrim ancestry lead off my Harvey Bradford.

DNA/Genealogy Trees

Looking through my files I see these Trees:

  • Snell
  • Parker
  • Hatch
  • Bradford
  • Hathaway

What I don’t see for trees:

  • Luther
  • Churchill
  • Cowing

I would like to update my old trees and add trees where necessary. The last time I started looking at this subject, I looked at Hathaway and realized I had a lot of people in that tree and more to add. This time, I would like to look at Luther, Churchill and Cowing.

Cowing

I know this name from my home town as Cowen. However, the more historical spelling is Cowing or Cowin. I don’t recall writing about any ThruLines for Cowing. Here are some from Joyce, my father’s first cousin:

Joyce and my family are under Experience Cowing. Joyce has no additional ThruLines under Israel Cowing, but she has three ThruLines through Jonathan and Patience Cowing. First, I’ll loo at Christine:

This has happened before. When I choose Kristine from the ThruLines and then check her common ancestors, I come out with a different line. I am curious to see if the Cowen connection is correct.

Here is Kristen’s paternal side from her own tree:

Here is the family in Middleborough, MA in 1930:

Philip was a chauffer for the Town. Philip was born in Westport, but his birth record shows that his father was born in Mattapoisett:

Here is Philip and his father Sanford and family in Westport, MA in 1900:

Sandford was a farmer.

Here is my tree for Kristine:

Mattapoisett became a Town in 1857, the year before Sanford was born. I just need to show that the Ruth above was Ruth Cowen.

Here is the 1865 Census for Mattapoisett:

Findagrave shows this for Ruth:

My tree now suggests that Kristine does go back to Seth Cowen:

My understanding is that Kristine should be a 5th cousin to Joyce. So that is a little closer than the 5th cousin once removed on the Hathaway side. The DNA match would be either from the Cowen side or the Hathaway side. There is no easy way of knowing.

A First Cowen DNA/Genealogy Tree

That line was relatively easy to trace as the family stayed fairly local.

Helen and Joyce

The next family is fun because it involves a genealogy friend, Helen, who lives down the street from me:

If I can show that Helen matches  Joyce by DNA, it gives creedence to our genealogical research. I trust Helen’s research, so feel no need to evaluate it. Here is her tree:

Helen’s line goes to Seth Cowing Hiller, then to Patience Cowing and then to our most recents common ancestors, Seth Cowing and Penelope Crapo.

I’ll add Frances and Helen to the Tree:

A few interesting things about this tree:

  • These three lines represent three Cowing children born within about 4 years
  • These families mostly stayed in the same part of Massachusetts for about 300 years and if you look at the Mayflower ancestors, that would have our families here for 400 years, so we have deep roots in this part of SE Massachusetts.

Jon and Shaun

My sister Heidi and I have no Cowing ThruLines from Seth Cowing, but my brother Jon has one:

Shaun has a modest tree, but has more on his maternal side. I don’t have a tree for Shaun, so I will create one. Shaun does show that his maternal great-grandfather was from New Bedford:

This obituary ties Stacey Smith to Francis Swift:

Francis was born in Utah and wed in Wyoming:

Here is the 1930 Census for Salt Lake City:

Here is my tree so far:

I forgot to mention, that when I look at the specific match for Jon and Shaun, a Hathaway connection shows up. It is likely that Jon and Shaun are connected on both lines:

This comes up now because there is a Hathaway in Shaun’s Line.

The marriage record for Francis and Amanda has a lot of information:

This has Francis born in Sandwich rather than New Bedford. It also has their parents’ names.  Here is a tree update:

Where Hattaway is likely a transcription error for Hathaway.

Here is the book transcription of the marriage of Nathan Swift and Pamelia Cowing:

And here is her birth record:

So it is pretty clear where this is going as Israel is the son of Seth Cowing.

Here I have the connection between my brother Jon and Shaun:

I did not check out the Hathaway connection, but that one is likely also. That means, that it is unclear as to whether the actual DNA that Jon and Shaun share are from the Hathaway side or Cowing side.

Lori and Gretchen

I see that my sister Lori has a potential Cowing connection with Gretchen:

The good news is that I already have Matthew Hiller in my tree, so I just need to get Gretchen back to Matthew instead of to the colonial Seth Cowing. I am having trouble finding Seth from the information that Gretchen has:

Gretchen has that Seth died in New York City. I found this draft card:

The only problem is that the tree I got this from has Seth’s wife as Grace Appel:

Gretchen’s tree suggests a Webster as the wife.

Looking at Helen’s ThruLines

I thought of another way to substantiate Gretchen. I have access to Helen’s ThruLines:

Clearly, Gretchen has a large match to Helen and is related. Here is Helen’s tree:

The other three that show as children of Matthew Hiller could not be from Beuretta Webster Hammon if Helen’s tree is right as Beuretta dies in 1880.

Here is the family in 1900:

Charles is apparently out of the house, but George, David and Jennie from Helen’s ThruLines are there. This seems to be a good enough of a connection for me.

I’ll add Gretchen to the tree:

Gretchen and my brother Jon are 5th cousins once removed.

My sister Lori also matches Gretchen. Also my sister Sharon matches Shaun.

Cousin Maury’s ThruLines

My father’s cousin Maury has also tested at Ancestry. He has these ThruLines to Cowing:

Maury and my family are under Experience Cowing. The Hiller family is under Patience Cowing. Here are Maury’s ThruLines on the Hiller side:

Maury and P.S.

Since I last wrote, I see another ThruLine for Maury. It is on a different Cowing Line that I would like to investigate:

Mary is the oldest child of Seth Cowing on the ThruLines. Mary is on my tree. She must have married Philipp Briggs:

We are trying to go from the Wing back to the Nye family:

Here is Addie’s birth record from 1864 in Sandwich:

Addie’s father, George B. was a butcher.

Here is the family in 1870:

Next, I just need to find George’s mother. George’s death record gives his mother’s name and birthplace:

Here the Cowing Tree is filling out:

Co

This is not as far as I could go, but it is as far as I would like to go for now.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able, with not too much difficulty, to pretty good Cowing DNA/Genealogy Tree thanks to my father’s cousins Joyce and Maury and my brother Jon
  • In some cases the common ancestors also came up as Hathaway. That is probably partly because my ancestor Experience Cowing married Joseph Hathaway. However, the matches would have had to have had Hathaways in their ancestry also
  • In other cases where Hathawy did not show up in the ThruLine matches, I assume that Hathaway ancestry was not there in the DNA match – at least during the time period that we are looking at.
  • I am ready to move on to more DNA/Genealogy Trees

 

 

Hartley ThruLines Part 7

This is an extensive series of Hartley ThruLines, but I feel like I am getting further back on my Hartley ancestral line than I have in years of genealogical research that did not use DNA.

In this Blog, I would like to look at this ThruLine:

This is a ThruLine between Joyce, my father’s first cousin and hudson. The ThruLine for Hudson goes by way of John, born 1771, son of John Hartley.

First, I look to see if I have created a tree for Hudson and it appears that I have not. Hudson has a good tree:

However, it has a blank right where I need it. I assume that Hudson lives in Australia:

Here is Humphrey and family in Burnley in 1911:

Interestingly, Humphrey’s wife was from Philadelphia.

Looking for Humphrey Layfield’s Mother

It doesn’t take much to figure out that Humphrey’s mother’s first name was Hannah. This is the Census for Burnley and this family was all born in Burnley according to thie Census.

This record is helpful:

That leads me to this tree:

I need to verify that Elizabeth’s father was Thomas Hartley. An Ancestry member kindly posted this image:

The name Hitchon is a new one to me, but it is not the line that I am interested in. We do see Thomas Hartley as Eliizabeth’s father. This appears to be Briercliffe where Elizabeth was born:

Could this be the same Hannah Hartley?

It appears that Thomas Hartley could have died soon after the birth of Elizabeth Hartley. Based on hints, this is my best guess for the marriage of Thomas Hartley:

Who was the Father of Thomas Hartley?

We are looking for a John. Thomas’ first son was named John, possibly after Thomas’ father. It appears that this is a bit difficult. Here are clues from Ancestry:

There was a marriage for this couple in Burnley:

However, I cannot tell if this would lead me back to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. I do see this hint from the ThruLines:

However, I am not convinced of this connection at this point.

Other Hartley/Bracewell ThruLines: Joel and Nora

I do not believe that I have looked at this connection:

Lets take a look. Nora’s mom was from Texas. Nora’s grandfather was born in Pennsylvania, but his parents were from England. Here is the 1920 Census from Fort Worth, Texas:

I am looking for Samuel’s mother. In 1870, the family was in Philadelphia:

Here is my evolving tree for Nora:

Nora’s tree is pretty good and goes to the Robert and Peggy that I have documented already:

However, there is a conflict with a tree I already have for Karen:

Was Ann Elizabeth Longbotham Originally a Tomkinson?

This is probably Richard Longbottom in 1841 in Salford:

There was an Elizabeth Tomkinson who traveled to Philadelphi:

She appears to be with her father and mother. Here is the family 1841 in Pendleton, Salford, Manchester:

From this, I turned the page on the arriving immigrants from England:

Assuming I have the right woman, she must have married in Philadelphia. I feel like I am again using the criteria of ‘is this line possible?’ rather than can I prove this line.

According to the 1851 Census, Elizabeth and her family were born in Salford:

Was Ann Tomkinson a Hartley?

There appears to be more documentation here. This record is a bit messy:

William Tomkinson dies in 1915 and his mother should be Ann Hartley, however, it is transcribed as ‘Fathly’.

Here is an entry from ,

Genealogical memoirs of various families of Tomkinson (1620-1904) by Newton Powers Tomkinson, published 1904 in Philadelphia

Here is the transcription of the wedding mentioned above:

More on Nora’s Hartley Ancestry

Let’s check the Tomkinson Genealogy on the Hartleys. Here is a marriage between John Hartley and Elizabeth Crossley:

Next, a lot would be riding on the birth date of John Hartley. The most logical choice appears to be this John:

Generally speaking, babies were baptized fairly soon after birth unless there were extenuating circumstances. In this scenario, John Hartley from Waterside moves to the Manchester area where he marries in 1802.

I get these other hints from Ancestry:

This appears to be Elizabeth Crossley Hartley livign in Salford in 1851 with her unmarried daughter and grandson. This Elizabeth was born in Rochdale:

This baptismal date is the same as the birth date for Elizabeth given in the Tomkinson Genealogy above.

Ancestry also gives this hint for the 1841 Census in Manchester:

It appears that these two trees cannot both be right going back to Robert Hartley and John Hartley. Here is the proposed one for this Blog:

Here is the Tree for my previous Blog:

Note here I have John born 1796 based on the 1841 Census, but based on an Ancestry Tree, I decided that he could have been born in 1779.

It appears that there are pro’s and con’s for each of these trees:

  • The dates matched better with Nora’s tree, but not the location. It was unclear why John Hartley would move from Colne to Manchester or it was unclear that he did so
  • The locations matched better on Karen’s tree, but the dates seemed off.

Further, as I look at Joyce’s ThruLines, I no longer see my friend Elaine on her list:

These ThruLines are definitely in a state of flux. My solution for now is to give a tint to Elaine’s and Karen’s lines:

I don’t know what to do with Nora’s line for now as that would show a different wife for John Hartley. I do note that Nora matches my siblings Jon, Lori and Sharon. I haven’t tested one brother at Ancestry and one sister did not match Nora. The interesting thing is that these two ThruLines appear that conflict with each other. One is from my family and one is from my father’s 1st cousin.

Here is Nora’s Line shaded in green:

Here is the whole tree:

This completes for now the series on John Hartley/Anne Bracewell ThruLines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It can be confusing trying to sort out Hartley Genealogy in the area of Colne, Lancashire. DNA matches should help to direct this genealogy in certain directions
  • In 2019, I started looking at DNA matches from two people who appeaered to be descendants of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. Because of this connection I added John Hartley and Anne Bracewell to my Ancestry Tree
  • Ancestry then looked for and found other DNA matches with possible connections to Anne Bracewell and John Hartley using ThruLines
  • When I checked the ThruLines, most lines seemed to connect to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • However, near the end of the series, most questions arose on at least a few of the Lines. One problem was that there were two possible ways one of the Lines could have gone and didn’t seem that both could be true.
  • Next, ThruLines for my father’s first cousin Joyce goes back a further generation. I would like to look at those connections.

 

 

 

 

Hartley ThruLines Part 6

In the past five Blogs on Hartley ThruLines, I have looked at the ThruLines coming down from my potential ancestors John Hartley and Anne Bracewell through their children Nancy Hartley and Robert Hartley:

In this Blog, I will look at the ThruLines by way of Susan or Susy Hartley born 1755. These are the ThruLines my father’s cousin Joyce has through Susan:

There are pb, nx and Sheryl. Nx is a new match as seen by the blue dot. I looked at Sheryl in a 2019 Blog that got me thinking that John Hartley and Anne Bracewell could very well be my ancestors.

pb and Joyce

pb’s Ancestry Tree is private, so I cannot look at it but he and Joyce have Sheryl as a shared DNA match, so that  is promising. I’ll try creating my own tree for pb to see if it matches up with his ThruLines. The findagrave entry was confusing, so I looked at the social security record for pb’s mother:

That means that we have to get this family from Kansas back to Colne, Lancashire.

Here is the family in 1930 in Lone Elm, Kansas. Vera’s mother Olive was a grade school teacher:

Findagrave is more helpful for Oive:

My ancestry tree for pb is starting to fill out:

Following the Bracewell Line

Here are some Bracewells from the 1870 Iowa Census:

Father Starkey or Starky was born in England and they have a son named Hartley. Here is a photo of ‘Starkie’ from Ancestry:

The 1880 Census transcribes his name as Ataskis. However, I see Starkie:

Fortunately, Starkey is a fairly uncommon name. Here is Starkey in 1841 in Foulridge:

It looks like he was born at Hey Mill? My best guess for Mary is Mary Starkie:

I wish that the marriage record mentioned the father of John Bracewell. ThruLines has that John Bracewell was borno in 1778, but if he was 45 in 1841, then he would have been born in 1796. If he was 79 rounded down to 45, he would have been born about 1792.

One of the ThruLine sources gives this information for Susan or Susy Hartley:

They have Susan the daughter of John Hartley and Ann (who I interpret to be Bracewell). They have that Susy and Joseph Bracewell had a son named Hartley Bracewell. I take this Hartley to be the witness at the marriage of John Bracewell and Mary Starkie. I would further guess that John and Hartley Bracewell were brothers.

This Tree has John as the son of Joseph Bracewell and Susan Hartley:

However, they have John born 1796 based on the Census. I believe that John must have been born earlier:

Again, I have not proved this line, but have shown that it could be possible.

The James Hartley witness could be my ancestor. This appears to be Susy’s baptismal transcription:

Adding pb to my tree:

I mentioned at the start of the Blog that pb and Joyce aslo match Sheryl, but I have not added her to the tree yet.

Adding Sheryl to the Tree

I will assume that my work that put Sheryl on this tree in 2019 still applies.

This is interesting because pb and Sheryl are 4th cousins to each other. This also shows that the only likely way that pb and Sheryl could match Joyce would to be through the Bracewell or Hartley Lines.

Joyce and nx

It appears that the match between Joyce and nx should provide additional branching:

All I have to do is show that nx has ancestry back to John Bracewell born in 1834. NX also has a private tree, so I will have to use the ThruLines to check his Line.

Here is William from findagrave:

Here is Winnie in the 1900 Census for Iowa:

Here is NX in my tree:

NX and Joyce also have a shared DNA match with Sheryl which makes sense as Sheryl and NX are 3rd cousins.

Joel and Gillian

I also have a ThruLine with Gillian:

Gillian’s Line appears to go through Hartley Bracewell born in 1788. One odd feature of this tree is that it goes from hartley Bracewell to Jane Bracewell to John E Bracewell. I would have expected to have three male Bracewells in a row.

This Gillian’s tree:

Somehow Ancestry has figured out her descent from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell from other sources. It appears that I started a tree for Gillian previously, but didn’t get very far:

Hints from the ThruLines tell me that Philip and Ernest were from Burnley:

Here are Ernest and Mary in 1939 in Burnley:

Here is the family in 1901 in Burnley

This appears to be John in 1871:

John’s mother Jane is from Colne, so I won’t give up yet. This is my guess for the marriage of William and Jane:

This appears to be the young family in 1851:

At this point, I am ready to give up on the Gillian Line as it is too complicated.

Here is the full Hartley/Bracewell Tree so far:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I now have the lines of four of the children of John Hartley born 1730 and Anne Bracewell
  • In this Blog I looked at and added three lines from daughter Susy Bracewell born 1755
  • I looked at an additional line, but was unable to get it to connect to the Susy Line.
  • I still have at least one more Blog to write on this topic.

Hartley ThruLines Part 5

From my previous Blog, here is my Hartley DNA/Genealogy Tree:

These are people that match either me by DNA or my father’s 1st cousin Joyce. Except for Paul. I can’t remember where he came from. All these people also have a possible connection to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell who are my possible 5th great-grandparents.

In this Blog, I will look a little more into the Line of Robert Hartley born 1758. I have mentioned Elaine in a few of my previous Blogs on Hartley ThruLines. She helped me with some local geography in the area around Colne. I connected with one of her genealogy trees which helped me on the Mary Lee born 1801 Line above. She is a friend also. And she also appears on my father’s cousin Joyce’s ThruLines:

Karen also shows up there. I have a Paul on my DNA/Genealogy tree also, but don’ t recall who matched him.

Elaine and Joyce

Unfortunately, Elaine’s tree does not show the same connection as the ThruLine:

At the point where ThruLines goes Thomas > Robert > John, Elaine’s tree goes from Thomas > James > Thomas. I’ll take a look to see how these two trees differ.

Here are Albert and family in 1891:

Here is Robert with his family in 1871:

Here is my simple reconstructed tree so far:

In 1861, Thomas Hartley was living at Laneshaw Bridge in Colne:

Here is some more information on Thomas Hartley:

Here is some more information:

This is interesting as the 1841 Census took place before this time. Elaine shows this as the 1841 Census for the family:

Here father Thomas is shown as a weaver rather than a farmer. Back to a weaver at son Thomas’ birth:

Who was the Father of Thomas Hartley?

I have a feeling that Elaine’s answer will be better than Ancestry on this one. Both the ThruLines and Elaine’s tree have a Thomas Hartley born 1788. When I check for the evidence of Thomas Hartley in the ThruLines, I get this:

There is one member tree, but when I look at clive’s tree, it is the same as Elaine’s. Here are some baptisms for Thomas in 1788:

Is this the same person?

At any rate, none of these Thomases are the son of a Robert Hartley. Here are the only Thomases, sons of Roberts I could find:

If there was a connection, it would have to be with the second entry, as I have that Robert married Peggy, a nickname for Margaret. Having said that, I see that the Mary I have on my tree is here:

This was the match with Paul that I cannot remember entering:

For now I’ll leave Elaine off my DNA/Genealogy Chart. I have only showed that she could fit into that chart. It occurs to me that there are many other ways in which we may be related. However, I have shown, at least in a quick overview, that it is possible that her genealogy could connect with John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. As I review this line further, more information may come to light.

Joyce and Karen

On Karen’s tree, she has traced her ancestry back to a Robert Hartley:

Assuming that Karen’s tree is correct, it appears that the Robert in her tree could be the one from the ThruLines. That is, based on the date of hte birth of John Hartley in 1796. However, on closer inspection, I see that Hannah Hartley was from Rawtenstall:

Rawtenstall is several miles from Colne and closer to my Emmet ancestors who lived in Bacup:

Time to check out Karen’s tree. Here is a young Charles Harvey and his family:

Charles’ father Richard was a quarry man. Here is my specific tree in progress:

However, it is Betsy that we are intrerested in. According to the 1911 Census above, the whole family was born in Rossendale. This appears to be a general area including Rawtenstall:

This appears to be the marriage registration index for Betsy Terry:

Here are Betsy’s family in the 1871 Census for Rawtenstarll. Betsy is on the next page:

Hannah Hartley Terry

It appears that Hannah Terry was born in Rutt Lee? The 1881 Census shows that Hannah has passed away:

So Hannah should be born around 1826. According to the 1861 Census, Thomas either had a different wife, or Hannah also went by Nancy:

Here is an interesting entry for a Hannah Hartley:

I should note that I have Howorth in my ancestry. However, Ancestry has this hint:

I see that as a good choice due to this bapstismal entry:

The problem (or good news) is that this brings the family back to Colne. The reason that I like Rough Lee is that it sounds like Rutt Lee from the 1871 Census. It looks like this was a large family. Here they are in Mill Gate, Lower Booths, Rawtenstall:

Actually, this looks like two families. I can’t make out the name of the second family. Lower Booths is to the North of Rawtenstall:

These two additional baptsims from Colne further tie this Rossendale family back to Colne:

I was despairing of finding a connection to Colne, but this appears to be the connection. From the 1841 Census, my guess is that the 28 year old Mary Hartley could be the child of Jane as she is older than John.

Was John Hartley the Son of Robert Hartley?

Assuming the ThruLines from Ancestry, John Hartley the son of Robert Hartley should have been born in 1779. This John Hartley was 45 or older at the time of 1841 Census. That means that he could have been born between and about 1792 and 1796. That means that he would not be a very good match if his age was reported accurately in the 1841 Census.

I do note that John named a potential eldest son Robert. That means that he could have been named for John’s father. Assuming that John’s father was a Robert, I come up with these potential parents for John:

Karen’s ThruLine Hints for John Hartley

The ThruLines hints for Karen and Joyce were more straightforward than the hint for Joyce and Elaine:

Here, I chose the Schofield Family Tree with 24 records on John Hartley:

Here we see Robert and Peggy as John’s parents. Here are some more details from the tree:

Of interest is that he shows John’s father Robert Hartley dying in Haslingden in 1845. Under this scenario, the Robert Hartley who was 80 in 1841 in the house of John Hartley in Rawtenstall must be his father Robert.

Here is more of the Schofield Tree:

Updating the Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealogy Tree

As I mention above, it seems possible that Elaine and Karen could be added to the Tree. I’ll put them in to see how it looks. If Elaine and Karen match each other by DNA, then that would also help to solidify the tree. Here I have added Karen:

I still hope that I can figure out who Paul is. Here is Elaine added in:

I checked at least one tree at Ancestry and it showed that Robert above born 1758 did have twins.

 

Finding Paul

I finally found Paul in this Blog from 2019. I built his tree out from a tree that only had five people in it (but two parents):

His parents were from New Bedford which is where my Hartley ancestors ended up. I found Paul in an interesting way. He was a shared DNA match betwen my father’s cousin Joyce and Kristin:

Because Paul was a shared match with Kritin and Joyce, that meant that his connection went back to 1861 or earlier. When I did the genealogy, it appeared that the connection went back to John Hartley from 1730. Another connection with Sheryl along the Susy Hartley Line of 1755 seemed to confirm the tree. Sheryl was another shared DNA match between Kristin and Joyce. As a result, I put John Hartley and Anne Bracwell into my Ancestry Tree. Fast forward more than four years later and now there are many more DNA connections with possible genealogical connections as shown in Ancestry ThruLines.

I just need to add in Kristin and Joyce, and I should be done with this Blog:

And the tree is not yet finished. I will continue in a later Blog.

Summary and Conclusions

  • In this Blog, I looked at ThruLines between my father’s cousin Joyce and Elaine and Karen
  • Both Elaine and Karen had possible links to Robert Hartley born 1758 who married Peggy Sellers. Robert appears to be the son of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • I hesitated adding Elaine to the tree as she has her own differing tree. Also I had trouble figuring out from the Ancestry evidence how Elaine was added to the ThruLines.
  • The mounting evidence seems to be that these many DNA matches support the theory that John Hartley and Ann Bracewell are my ancestors. This is good news, because going on the genealogy alone, it was too difficult to narrow down my Hartley ancestors.
  • I then reviewed match Paul who is not on the ThruLines. I had found him in 2019 and also traced his line back to Robert Hartley born 1758 and John Hartley born 1730.
  • Because Paul was a shared match between Joyce and Kristen, that meant that he was more likely to have an older Hartley connection.

 

Hartley ThruLines Part 4

I have been having good results in my previous Blogs. In my previous Blog, I looked at ThruLines from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell through their daughter Nancy. She had 10 children, so potentially, a lot of descendants. In this Blog, I will look at more Nancy Hartley ThruLines through my father’s cousin, Joyce.

Joyce is a good choice because she is a generation earlier than me and should have twice as much Hartley DNA compared to me:

Here is the Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealogy Tree I have so far:

Here are Joyce’s ThruLines through Nancy Hartley:

Laura’s tree ends in Jesse Howorth:

It turns out that I already have a tree for Laura:

However, I had stopped the tree at Eliza Lee. This tree was made back in 2018 before I knew about Joyce’s ThruLines apparently.

Joyce and Laura

This line should be easy as I already mentioned Eliza in my previous Blog. She identifies her father-in-law in the 1851 Census:

I’m feeling good about Nancy’s 11 children, so I added them to my Ancestry Tree:

So here, John has Eliza who has Jesse. It appears that Laura’s tree checks out.

Adding Laura to My Hartley Tree

Laura adds another piece to the puzzle. Obviously, a lot is riding on the fact that Thomas Lee’s wife Nancy was Nancy Hartley the daughter of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.

Joyce and Robin

Here Ann Lee shows in white on Robin’s side. This is probably because I just added Ann to my tree. I get this hint in my tree for Ann:

Robin has an extensive tree which I will assume to be accurate at this point. Here is her maternal side:

I will add Robin to my Hartley/Bracewell Tree:

Unfortunately, I don’t show Joyce on this tree, but she would be in the same generation as my father. So Joyce is 5th cousin once removed to Laura and Robin.

Joyce and Shaz

All the ThruLines seem to be working out so far:

Interestingly, shaz shows to be descended from Mary who Nancy Hartley Lee had when she was almost 47 years old. Shaz’ tree stops at James Wilkinson:

If I can show that James Wilkinson was the son of Mary Lee, that may be good enough. It turns out that Mary is in the tree of my genealogy friend, Elaine:

Elaine has saved me some time in connecting Mary Lee to James Wilkinson. This connection is good enough for me:

Here the tree is getting wider, reflecting the large family that Nancy Hartley Lee had.

Summary and Conclusions

  • My father’s first cousin Joyce showed three ThruLines from the Nancy Hartley Line. These all appear to check out.
  • Evidence is mounting that we have many connections to Nancy Lee who appears to be Nancy Hartley and the daughter of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • I previously had not documented these Nancy Hartley descendants and now show 6 DNA matches between myself and my father’s cousin Joyce.
  • I will continue working on Hartley/Bracewell Thrulines in subsequent Blogs.

 

Hartley ThruLines Part 3

My Hartley Tree at Ancestry ends in John Hartley and Anne Bracewell:

Unfortunately, I do not have good genealogical evidence that these are my correct ancestors past Robert Hartley. There were so many Hartleys born in the area of Colne, that it makes it difficult to figure things out. I say this because when Ancestry looks for ThruLines, it is trying to look for matches to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.

Summarizing the Hartley/Bracewell ThruLines

I have 7 Ancestry tests to deal with. These are me and four out of five of my siblings. Then there are two of my father’s first cousins.  I’ll start with myself:

Here I have those that are believed to be the children of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell other than James. I have that my family is possibly from the line of James. Then I have the person that I match from that line. I match three from the line of Nancy. Then I have how much I match  those proposed descendants of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell (in centimorgans)

Although this is helpful, I think that it would be more helpful to show this information on a family tree. I have already started such a tree:

This will show the branching of the matches, so I think this is more infomative. At the time I made this tree (2019), I had no matches from the Nancy Line. Now I have at least three:

However, I am now running into a different problem. Notice how there are two John Lees in this tree. It could be that one of these matches doesn’t belong in the tree or that the two John Lees are the same person.

Here is the same level of ThruLines for my father’s first cousin Joyce:

Joyce has three different matches and only one John Lee.

As a side-note, Maury who is my father’s other 1st cousin, does not have the same ThruLines. He shows James as son of Robert instead of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell:

Two John Lees

Before I add to my Hartley DNA/Genealogy Chart, I will want to figure out why there are two John Lees in my ThruLines. I’ll start with my larger match:

Joel and J.S.

J.S. has a nice tree:

Ancestry wants me to follow J.S.’s Line from Crabtree to Lee rather than from Crabtree to Betty Hartley:

It turns out I already made a tree for J.S., but I did not carry it far enough back:

I was following the Betty Hartley Line apparently:

According to an Ancestry Hint, this Betty Hartley Line appears to go to a Nancy Hartley who was from Thornton in Craven. Thornton-in-Craven is not too far from East Marton which is what I was looking at in my previous Blog.

Michael Lee b. 1803

Here is the family in 1841:

They are living in Reedy Moor ‘Folridge’ which I take to be Foulridge.

The faint red arrows points to Reedy Moor Lane which is to the West of Foulridge and North of Colne.

The 1851 Census has Michael born in Thornton, Yorkshire:

The Census is a bit confusing as Alice Crabtree is the daugther of Michael and Barbara Lee. I assume that Barbara had previously married a Crabtree. If this is the case, then Michael should not be the father of Alice as the tree shows above.

Here is Thornton where Michael is said to be born in the 1851 Census:

I think I see my mistake. It appears that Alice was married in the 1851 Census to Samuel Crabtree. Usually husband and wife are listed together, but here Samuel is listed as a lodger rather than a son-in-law. This marriage took place shortly before the 1851 Census:

Here is some more on Michael Lee:

Unfortunately, the marriage record does not give the parents for Michael Lee and there are two choices for his birth. One Michael was born in Harden and one in Higher Hague.

If the map is right, this is Higher Hague:

I think this may be Harden or near Harden Road a bit further North:

Michael Lee has a son Henry, which could favor Michael Lee being the son of Henry Lee of Harden. However, the date of Michael Lee in the Census records favors the later birth.

John Lee

Here is the marriage of John Lee:

Here we see that John is the correct father of Michael as he shows the connection to Thornton in Yorkshire. Expanding the 1851 Census shows John Lee:

John’s daughter Eliza apparently marries a Howorth. This Census is important as it shows that John was born in Colne. Based on his age of 70, John was born around 1781. This would make him 22 at the time of his marriage which is reasonable:

In addition, Ancestry recommends an earlier birth:

I assume this is based on his birth in Colne. However, I assume that Coln is also Colne. The ThruLines has John’s mother as Nancy Hartley.

Here is some more information on Eliza Lee:

She is living in Colne at the time of her marriage in 1841 and her father John Lee is a farmer. Here is some more helpful information on Eliza:

Her mother’s name was Ann. Actually, I alreaady had her as Nancy or Nanny. However, we see that she was born in Foulridge. Now, oddly, the father is a hatter.

Here is John and Family in 1841:

I can’t make out the name of the House he was living at. The two entries before this were Wanlass Wastes and Slipper Hill. My best guest would be Wanlass House. The map is a bit busy, but gives the relative location to the Wanlass Water Farm:

Here is the next page of the 1841 Census:

Was John Lee’s Mother Nancy Hartley?

For this to be true, the John Lee who was shown in the Census to be born about 1881 in Colne would have to be the same as:

Then the Nancy from this baptism would have to be Nancy Hartley. I have already shown that the wife of John Lee was likely Ann or Nancy Wilson, but was his mother Nancy Hartley?

Here we see a Thomas Lee/Nancy Hartley wedding in 1774 and a birth from the same couple later that year.

Who Were Nancy Hartley’s Parents?

We would be looking for a Nancy born aroun 1753, assuming that Nancy was 21 when she married:

  1. This Nancy has a baptism date of 1747/1748 because this was before the time the calenday shifted. The new year used to be March 25, so it would have been still 1747 in February, but more like our current 1748 if I understand it correctly. At any rate, Nancy would have been about 27 at the time of her marriage.
  2. This Nancy would have been 19 at the time of her marriage.
  3. This Nancy would have been 18 at the time of her marriage
  4. This Nancy would only be 15.

These are some more of the children of the couple:

If the traditional naming pattern was used, Nancy would have named her second son after her father. Unfortunately, that would have been John. My first two choices for the father of Nancy were aslo named John Hartley.

There are too many John Hartley marriages to investigate. However, here is a possible scenario. Say I pick the Nancy Hartley who was born in 1754 in Trawden. She could have been the daughter of this couple:

Let’s further suppose that Nancy was the daughter of Anne. They may have named her Nancy to distinguish her from her mother Anne. This seems to be a house of cards, but one that may be gaining support.

I already liked the branching of this ThruLine:

What I mean by that is that there are three different matches all going back to Nancy Hartley. The only thing I would change at this point is that it appears that Nancy was born in 1754 rather than 1752.

A New Hartley DNA/Genealogy Tree

I have found these trees to be helpful. I don’t have immediate access to the tree I showed earlier in the Blog, so I wrote up a simplified version:

I previously had only two lines represented which were my line (James) and the Robert Hartley Line. Now having three lines makes the possibility of my descent from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell seem more likely. The interesting thing about my previous tree is that my immigrant ancestor’s second cousin Richard Holgate had moved from Blackburn to New Bedford. I wonder if Greenwood ever got in touch with him in New Bedford.

Additional Lee Lines

I would like to look at the other two Lee Lines. One should be easy as it has a John Lee from 1779. This is the same John that I had surmised was correct in the previous Line going down to J.S.

John and Joel

My match with John looks like this:

It appears that the only connection I need to look at is between John Lee and Martha Lee. It turns out that I already have an image of the 1841 Census with Martha in it. It turns out that John also has that same reference:

However, DNA match John in his tree, did not make the same connection that I did with Ann Lee being Nancy Wilson. Interestingly, if I had seen John’s tree, I would have focused on the Richard Hartley/Martha Bracewell Line. That shows how helpful these ThruLines can be.

I also see that John and I have a shared match with J.S., but also a Wilkinson. The Wilkinson match is confusing, because I think I am related to the Wilkinsons on the Pilling side rather than the Hartley side.

Here is Martha’s baptismal transcription:

Here is my addition of my 6th cousin John to the Tree:

That is, of course, assuming that I have the correct tree.

Gabrielle and Joel

Ancestry appears to want me to evaluate Gabrielle’s entire line. Gabrielle’s tree goes back to Jane Lee:

The marriage record for Edith Miles gives her parents:

We find the Lee name in the marriage index:

Here is my version of Gabrielle’s tree so far:

Jane’s Anglican Marriage record gives her birthplace and parents:

In the 1871 Census for Burnley, we see that Robert Lee was from Colne:

Here is 11 year old Robert Lee living in Lenches, Great Marsden in 1851 – next to another Robert Lee family:

Here is Robert’s family enumerated on the previous page next to the Shackelton family:

Robert Lee Sr

The above Census has Robert born in Earby, Yorkshire:

In my list of children of Thomas and Nancy Lee above, I stopped at 1788, but the list goes on:

My guess is that these were all from the same family. The only problem is that if Nancy was born in October 1754, she would have been 46 going on 47 when she had Mary. Possible, but somewhat rare. In support of Mary Lee, I see at the start of the Blog that my father’s first cousin Joyce has a ThruLine going up to Mary Lee born in 1801.

Revised Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealgy Tree

The tree is starting to fill out:

This tree compares well with my Ancestry ThruLines:

I have the three matches from the Nancy Hartley lineage. I have not checked the Susan Hartley Line yet. I have Paul instead of Nora from the Robert Hartley Line. I will check out the Susan and Robert Hartley Lines in my next Blog.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I started out trying to summarize the ThruLines going back to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. These were difficult to summarize without trying to verify them.
  • Instead, I looked at the genealogies of the ThruLine matches going back to the Nancy Hartley Line. These three all either checked out or proved to be possible or likely.
  • It was helpful that Nancy Hartley had 10 children
  • I found it significant that the branching for these matches went back to around the year 1800. Two matches were from the UK and one was from Australia.
  • I entered the Nancy Hartley Line onto a Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealogy Chart
  • Having these extra matches appear to solidify the likelihood that my ancestors could have been John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. I had earlier identified them as the most likely candidates and the ThruLines seem to back that up
  • I continue to maintain a healthy skepticism concerning the results and want to be open to other possibilities. Going back to 6th cousins opens up a lot of possibilities and other family lines which are out there.
  • In my next Blog, I will follow other ThruLine leads from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.

 

Hartley ThruLines Part 2

In Part 1 of Hartley ThruLines, I looked at my DNA match Paul with proposed common ancestors. I had trouble figuring out some of the details of Paul’s Hartley genealogy. I then looked at a match between my father’s cousin Joyce and the Ainsworth Line. This line was more promising, but I got bogged down. I notice that the first ThruLine remains, while the second one has disappeared at Ancestry for some reason. In this Blog, I will continue to look at proposed ThruLines to see if they lead me anywhere.

Maury’s ThruLines

Maury is my father’s first cousin and his DNA is managed by his daughter. Here is what Maury has:

I know the first two matches are not right as they are on the Pilling and not Hartley Line. The William Hartley shows probably because of this Wiliam I have in my tree:

I had him there because I thought that James and Betty Hartley were the parents of my ancestor Robert Hartley and that they had another son named William. However, I have not been able to prove either. At any rate, Maury shows three possible connections to a William Hartley. However, this William shows as being born in 1804 instead of 1805. Let’s look.

One tree with William Hartley has this information:

This is interesting because this is the same family that I was looking at in my previous Blog. However, I did not have Henry and John Hartley. Here are Maury’s matches:

It looks like Barry and his two children and his brother Russell. They all descend from Jack Whattaker from Australia. I also note that there is the Pilling name in there.

Shared Matches with Maury

When I look at Maury and Barry’s shared matches, I see one and probably two with Hartley ancestry. Norman is one shared match with Barry and here is Norman’s tree:

Norman has Hartleys on both sides of his tree. Norman has a William Hartley who married a Mary Pickles instead of the Jane Pickles that is in Maury’s ThruLines. Interesting, but I won’t look at it further right now.

Checking Out the Whittaker Tree

Hopefully, this should be easy. I’ll start with Russel’s Tree:

When I make my own tree, I see that Russel’s great-grandfather was born in Trawden and his paternal great-grandmother Jane Blackburn was born in Winewall, next door:

Here is my own version of the Whittaker Tree:

Ancestry wants me to choose John Pilling and Ann Hartley as Jane’s parent’s, but I don’t want to blindly accept these hints.

The 1871 Census does note a Jane Pilling living in Winewall:

She was living next to a Blackburn family, but I do not see a Stephen in this particular family at this time. Another interesting thing about this Pilling family is that the mother came from Marton, Yorkshire. In my previous Blog, I was looking at a Hartley ThruLine between myself and Paul:

This seems like too much of a coincidence. The Ann (possibly Hartley) from this Blog was born about 1834 according to the 1871 Census. In my previous Blog, I was also confused as to why Ann Hartley’s father appeared to be Samuel Bell:

Summary to This Point

As all this information is confusing, I will try to summarize to see if I can reduce the confusion:

  • I have a ThruLine with Paul. His ancestry tracks back to an Ann Hartley. For some reason, her father is listed as Samuel Bell, Blacksmith at her marriage to John Pilling in 1853 and she is listed on the Census as born in Marton, Yorkshire. Paul’s tree has Ann later married to a Hartley Blackburn but no sources are given.
  • My father’s cousin Maury has a ThruLine with four people on the Whittaker Line. That Line goes back to Jane Blackburn (married name) married to Stephen Blackburn. According to Ancestry Hints, she is the daughter of John Pilling and Ann Hartley born 1831 and listed above. If this is the case, then the common ancestor between these two trees is Ann Hartley.

It helps for me to create a chart:

On the left side of the chart, there would be more matches descending from Jack Whittaker. The reason this could be important is that both these lines go back to Ann Hartley and I don’t have many Hartley leads in my DNA matches that could give a clue on my Hartley heritage.

More on Ann Hartley

I asked my genealogy friend Elaine who was originally from the Trawden/Colne area about Marton and she sent me this map:

At the top of the map is West and East Marton. Elaine says a canal goes through the Town and down to Colne.

Elaine also came up with this 1851 Census which was helpful:

Recall that at the time of her marriage, Ann was living in Smithy Field. Here she is in 1851 – a few years before her marriage. Here she is after her marriage in 1861 in Trawden with John – although his last name looks like Billing:

Also Joseph Hartley who was Ann’s son is now called Joseph Pilling. This also accounts for the Jane Pilling who I was having trouble finding.

My thinking is that this should be Ann Hartley:

Anne’s mother was Anne Joanna Hartley. Here is another child of Ann Johanna named William Hartley:

William was born September 7, 1829. I am having trouble finding any of these three people in the 1841 Census. This appears to be William in 1851:

He is a lodger in East Marton. He is with Richard Hartley who is the son of Nancy Hartley who was born in Settle:

Here is Settle:

I feel like I am running out of information on Ann Joanna or Joahanna Hartley at this point.

Samuel Bell

At the time of Ann Hartley’s marriage in 1853, she gave the name of her father as Samuel Bell. Could it be that she had information of who her father was? Here is a Samuel Bell living in Barnoldswick in 1861:

Let’s do the math. Samuel was born around 1806. Ann Hartley was born 1832. That means that Samuel would have been 26 years old when Ann Hartley was born. That sounds reasonable. Just to add a little confusion, Samuel lists his father in his 1840 marriage record as what appears to be John Slater:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I looked at DNA matches from ThruLines to a William Hartley. One match was between Paul and myself. The other match was between my father’s 1st cousin Maury and Russel
  • Both these matches had an Ann Hartley. I found this to be significant.
  • Tracing the genealogy of Ann was difficult as she was born out of wedlock. Her mother was Ann Joanna Hartley and I could not find more information on her.

Hartley ThruLines

By Hartley ThruLines, I mean that I want to look at ThruLines on my Hartley side. I notice this interesting one:

My ThruLine with Paul is worth taking a look at. If this is right, it would help cement my connection to James Hartley born 1763.

A Tree for Paul

The way I check these is to create my own private tree for my match. Paul has posted a pretty good tree at Ancestry leading back to Ann Hartley:

This Ann Hartley was married to a Hartley Blackburn. However, he has this Ann being from Yorkshire:

Here is a conversation I had with Paul:

This appears to be Paul’s paternal grandmother:

Confusingly, Irene is transcribed at Ancestry as June in the 1911 Census:

The 1881 Census for Nelson is interesting:

It shows that William and Hartley Pilling were Ann Blackburn’s children, born in Colne and Winewall and that Maggie Blackburn was born in Nelson. This suggests to me that Ann Blackburn may have married a Pilling in Colne. Here are two marriages of an Ann Hartley to a Pilling:

Ann would be too young for the first marriage, but there was a Blackburn witness in that marriage.

Here is a entry for Ann Hartley from a tree I found at Ancestry:

This makes sense to me. The same tree has Hartley Blackburn from Trawden:

I also found that a possibility for Ann Hartley was this 1841 Census for Trawden, Lancashire:

In the 1881 Census, Ann was said to be from Marton, Yorkshire. All of this family at least shows as being from Lancashire. Another issue is that I can’t figure out where Marton is.

Another question: if Ann Hartley married as here:

then why would her father be Samuel Bell? Time to look at another Hartley ThruLine and perhaps come back to this later.

Joyce and Ainsworth

Joyce is my father’s 1st cousin:

Here is another connection through a William Hartley. Ruth should not be on this list as she descends from Mary Pilling. Mary had an illegitimate child before she married Robert. Ruth is desended from that child.

Looking at the Ainsworth Tree

The Ainsworth Tree is private, but the ThruLines has a suggested path based on other trees. One tree I found has a photo for John Hartley Ainsworth:

Three Ancestry Trees have John as the father of Olwyn:

Here is the 1911 Census showing a young John Hartley Ainsworth and his family – all born in Nelson:

James and Martha were married in 1901. They apparently lived with the wife’s family that year:

Next, I am trying to verify Martha’s mother:

Ancestry is suggesting Jane Hartley. The 1891 Census for Nelson has Jane being born in Trawden:

I found three trees for Jane Hartley at Ancestry and they all have Mary Hartley as her mother and they do not show a father:

That seems to be consistant with the original ThruLines which shows Jane’s mother as Mary Ann Hartley. This seems to be a good candidate for Jane in the 1851 Census:

Here we have a William Hartley, a Mary Hartley unmarried and a Jane Hartley granddaughter. So far, this is going more smoothly than the previous tree. This family which was all associated with Trawden moved within 8 months to Little Marsden (the time of the birth of Jane Hartley).  My question would be: why is Jane the daughter the Mary. She could have been the daughter of Betty or Alice. Here is the 1861 Census:

There is now a Sarah Hartley listed as daughter, but probably not from 64 year old Jane Hartley. Mary Ann is out of the house – either married or died or otherwise just moved out. It would make sense for the mother of the children to stay and take care of them. Regardless, William and Jane Hartley appear to be the grandparents of Jane and Sarah.

The truth comes out in 1871:

Here we have three generations of Hartleys: William, Alice and then Jane and Sarah. And they are living next door to the Widdup family!

The Census really helped out and is still informative in 1881:

I already had this before, but now I see that Sarah is a sister to Jane and not an Aunt. With what I see so far, I would choose Alice as the mother to Jane and Sarah, but there may be other information out there which would have Mary as the mother. However, to get back to William Hartley, I need to enter one Hartley sister and will enter Mary for now.

Mary Hartley and Her Sisters

We know that Mary Hartley was 23 in 1851. That would put her birth at around 1828 in Trawden. Going from the known to the unknown:

It is clear that this is the family in 1851 in Little Marsden which is just to the West of Trawden. This family had William and Jane as parents. Their children were Mary, Betty, Alice, Jonathan? and granddaughter Jane. Let’s compare the 1841 Census in Trawden where they were all born:

The family goes on to the next page:

This is clearly the same family, so that is good news. Unfortunately, the 1841 Census does not give family relations, but they are usually implied. Ancestry suggests William Hartley and Sarah Pickles as the parents which seems like a good choice to me:

If I decide that Pickles is not the right name later, I can change it.

Who Were the Parents of This William Hartley?

When I look at 3 Ancestry Trees, two have his parents as John and Mary Hartley and one Tree has his parents as James Hartley and Betty Baldwin. However, the one tree is a person I know and may have been influenced by my research? My old Hartley Web Site has this information:

My best guess for the parents of my ancestor Robert Hartley were James Hartley and Betty Baldwin. I also had that couple with a son William born in 1805 which would fit this William. If that is the case, then the DNA match would be my first DNA evidence that My ancestors were indeed James Hartley and Betty Baldwin.

I do note that there was a William Hartley who married a Jane Pickles in 1825:

However, this William was a widower. If William was born in 1805, that would make him a very young widower of 19. Possible but not likely. The other 2 trees had this William:

He would also have been a young widower at 20. We get William’s birth date from his Census records.

  • In 1841, he is listed as 35. However, note:

Please note, when searching the 1841 census, ages up to 15 are listed exactly as reported/recorded but ages over 15 were rounded to the nearest 5 years (i.e. a person aged 53 would be listed on the census as age 50 years).

  • In 1851, William was listed as 46, which is why we think he may have been born in 1804  or 1805.
  • In 1861 William was listed as 57, so he would be born in 1804 or possibly 1803
  • In 1871, William was listed as 58, so it is difficult to nail down a birth year. Now it could be 1803 or 1802.
  • In 1881, he is listed as 76 which puts his birth back to 1804 or 1805.

According to the Death Registration Index, there was a William who died in the Burnley area in 1885 at the age of 80:

This further suggests that William was born in 1804 or 1805. Assuming that this information is correct, I would lean toward William being born in 1804 as this record is for early 1885. Based on this analysis and assuming that William was baptized in Colne, I come up with these candidates:

I don’t know where Newlaith is, but there is a Little Laith listed in Trawden in 1841 Census.

This Wililam appears to be a good choice based on both date of birth and location.

This William who I thought previously could be the brother of my ancestor seems to be born a little too late.

Jane Pickles

Next, I would like to know if the Jane who married William was Jane Pickles. The fact that there was a 20 year old Sarah Pickles living with the William Hartley family seems to add to the evidence that Jane could be Jane Pickles.

Jane Pickles is mentionted in the Non-Conformist records. It appears that there was a Weslyan revival going on in Trawden at some point and many were baptized, including my third great-grandmother Mary Pilling Hartley. Here are the first three entries:

Here are the next two:

Here is a map of where my ancestors lived in 1837 according to the same Weslyan records:

I assume that Trawden means the village of Trawden and Slack Booth was outside the village to the South.

From the Weslyan records, we know that Jane’s father was Henry Pickles and her mother was Mary:

There are two choices for this couple’s marriage:

Molly was a nickname for Mary.

I am leaning toward Mary as the right spouse as opposed to Molly. Here is a birth to Molly:

I have not heard of Whilly End which would not rule her out. Also her maiden name is Pilling, so the DNA match could be on that side if this was the correct ancestor.

More on Wililam Hartley and His Possible Parents

I had as my best guess that William’s parents were John and Mary Hartley. One place to look is the 1841 Census:

I see that there was a John and Mary living next to the James Hartley Family. And the James Hartley Family is listed after the William Hartley Family. Now assuming that this John was the father of William and perhaps James, he would have been born in about 1776. Remember ages over 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. So John could have been born as early as about 1771 – assuming that he was the father.

Next Steps

I’ll keep looking at ThruLines and comparing them. The ThruLines as partially based on the information we put in the trees, so it may be necessary to try other potential ancestors. The goal would be to find a common ancestor with one of the DNA matches that does not have a clear connection on another line such as Pilling which is also a Trawden ancestor.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I first looked at Paul’s Tree. He is a DNA match with me. I got confused going back into the genealogy and had a lot of questions, so I went on to the next ThruLine
  • The next ThruLine was between my father’s 1st cousin Joyce and Ainsworth. The Ainsworth Tree was more straightforward and I got back to a Hartley Family in Trawden, not too far from where my Hartleys were from. This genealogy also bogged down around and before the year 1800. That seems to be a sticky area.
  • The goal is to find common ancestors between a DNA match. The genealogies of the DNA matches, if on the Harltey side, should inform me of the direction to go in my own genealogy.