Gladys and Her ThruLines on the Archibald Frazer Line

I have been working through the ThruLines for descendants of the Frazers from County Roscommon. I recently worked on the James FrazerLine and will now work on the Archibald Line.

Gladys’ Genealogy

Here is how my family is related to Gladys:

At the top of the tree, there is Violet and James Frazer. It is believed that these were two Frazer first cousins. Violet was a daughter of Richard and James is believed to be the son of Philip Frazer. That makes Gladys my 3rd cousin, once removed. Gladys is in a good position for DNA comparisons as she is in a generation ahead of me and ahead of many others on the tree.

Richard Patterson Frazer was my 2nd great-grandfather George’s brother. George stayed in Ireland and Richard moved to New York State and then to Canada. Richard died in Manitoba in 1901. This splitting up of Frazer families was quite common due to difficult times in Ireland.

Gladys’ ThruLines

ThruLines are good in that they combine DNA matches with Ancestry Trees. Let’s start at Gladys’ grandparent level:

Gladys shows no DNA matches at this level. From the chart above, she matches Bill, but he didn’t test at AncestryDNA. He tested at FTDNA.

I go up a level and Gladys (GM) still has no DNA matches:

If Gladys had matches here, they would be at her 2nd cousin level. Again, she would have DNA matches but they tested at FTDNA.

James Frazer ThruLines

James was born around 1804 and is believed to have married his first cousin Vioet Frazer:

Gladys now has 8 DNA matches at this level. They are likely to be 3rd cousins or 3rd cousins once removed. These 8 matches represent me, my four Ancestry-tested siblings, my two children and my nephew:

Next, I put these results in a table:

My son JJ got a perfect score of 22% out of 22%. Sharon got a lower score for getting too much of a match at 72 cM. However, all the levels of matches are good.

Gladys’ 3rd Great-Grandparents: Philip and Richard

This is where things get interesting as there are multiple Frazer Lines.

Philip Frazer Born About 1776

Gladys picks up Martha on ThruLines:

Martha has a strong DNA match for a 4th cousin, once removed. I also have Martha on my own DNA family tree:

I wrote a previous Blog on Martha here. It is interesting that Martha got the DNA match with Gladys and her 3rd cousins Richard and Barry did not match Gladys by DNA. Martha and Gladys get low marks for matching too much DNA:

Note that Gladys and Martha match on four segments. That could be a sign that they match on multiple lines. In my previous Blog on Martha, I show that Gladys and Martha are related also on the Frazer/Stinson Line:

Richard Frazer Born About 1777 – Philip’s Brother

On the Richard Frazer branch, Gladys shows as a half fourth cousin, but I think she should be a full fourth cousin to Michael:

Part of the problem is that we don’t have a name for Richard’s wife.

Here Michael has a DNA match higher than Ancestry would like, but he also matches Gladys on the Archibald/Stinson line. See, Michael and Gladys match on the three segments. That is a possible sign of multiple common ancestors.

Gladys and Archibald Frazer Born About 1778

This is the line I call the Archibald/Stinson Line.

Now things are heating up. Here is Michael again as expected. That means that someone put in Michael and Gladys’ trees correctly and Ancestry interpreted those trees correctly.

I’ll start with two on the Mary Frazer Branch.

Next is the Archibald, son of Archibald Branch:

Here is a good representation. I didn’t have the son Edward Branch on my previous Frazer DNA tree. Cathy is already in the Frazer DNA Project.

The above chart shows the many matches that Gladys has with people on the Archibald Frazer/Stinson Line.

Gladys’ Match with Daniel

Because I haven’t been tracking any DNA matches on the Edward Frazer Branch above, I’ll take a look at Daniel’s Frazer tree:

Daniel’s mother and grandmother are from his own tree. His Frazer great-grandmother is from Maria’s tree and Edward is from my own tree. Ancestry has done some computer collaboration work. I’ll build a private tree to see if I can get the same thing that Ancestry did.

Here is Mary and her family in 1940. They are living on Harvest Avenue in New York:

 

Mary’s mom was also born in New York.

Here is the tree I am building on Daniel’s mother’s side:

Ancestry has hints for me, but I don’t want to go with the hints now. The hint is that Mildred’s mom is Mary Winnifred Frazer.

This couple got married in 1928:

Here is the marriage License:

Here is the young family in 1930:

This says that both of Mildred’s parents were born in Brooklyn, NY.

This appears to be Mildred in 1920:

According to this record, Mildred’s mother was born in England and her father in New York. All four of Mildred’s grandparents were born in Ireland based on the 1920 Census.

This looks to be the same family in 1900:

This shows Mary coming to the US in 1871, so at about age 2.

The conventional wisdom of Ancestry Trees has Mary in Brooklyn, NY in 1880:

This shows that Edward and Winifred were born in Ireland. The children down to Mary were born in England and Edward Jr. was born in New York. This looks to be the same family five years earlier in 1875:

It appears that Winifred also went by Anne. I believe I see the children in Lancashire:

The father as Fred seems to be an error.

This shows the Link between New York and Lancashire. But how do I get back to Ireland?

This record implies that the couple wed in the first quarter of 1861:

Here is the married couple in 1861 in a place called Church, Lancashire:

I would say that this record gives the best birth years for Edward Frazer and Winifred Russell.

I just saw another hint in the 1861 Church, Lancashire Census:

Here is Edward’s older brother Alexander born about 1836. This is a critical record. From here, Edward moves with his family to New York. Alexander moves back to Ireland and marries there. Then some of Alexander’s children emigrate to the US.

That means that if I have made all my connections properly, then this tree may be off:

I am thinking that Alexander shown above was really born closer to 1836 and Edward shown above was really born closer to 1840.

An Updated Tree with Edward Frazer Born About 1840

I just need to update Alexander’s birth year.

Some Alexander Frazer Genealogy

I show Cathy descending from Alexander. He was probably the same Alexander Frazer who was in Lancashire in 1861 with his younger brother Edward Frazer and his new wife Winifred. Cathy has this about Alexander on her tree:

This shows Alexander’s parents, spouse and 12 children. Cathy’s grandmother is Anna Katherine aka Jane Kate Frazer. Here is Alexander in 1901 with his family:

Based on this Census, he would have been born about 1839 or 1840. That is closer to the 1836 birth that I had based on his stay in Lancashire.

 

Alexander was a farmer in Carrowncully, Roscommon:

 

That brings us down to Cathy’s grandmother. This photo is saved to Cathy’s tree:

Cathy shows that her grandmother traveled from Carrowncully to New York City in 1906 accompanied by her older brother Charles:

This photo is also attached to Cathy’s tree showing Charles and his father Alexander:

Brenda’s Link to Alexander Frazer Born 1836

Brenda descends from Thomas who was one of Annie’s many siblings. I didn’t mention above that Annie married and was living in Westport, CT by the 1910 Census:

Annie’s brother Charles was also living in Westport in 1910:

In fact, Charles was living in the same house with Annie.

But I’m looking for Thomas. Thomas was in Westport 10 years earlier:

Lilian is Brenda’s great-grandmother. It looks like Annie and Charles may have followed their older brother Thomas John to Westport, CT.

Based on ThruLines, I have added Brenda to Cathy’s orange Alexander Frazer Branch:

Alan of the Frazers of Australia

The purple boxes above represent the Frazer Family in Australia. Alan represents a new branch:

This is where the ThruLines appear to work well. I can’t tell who Alan’s mother is. She is probably still alive or at least shown that way on Alan’s tree. Because of that, I can’t see any information about her. However, Ancestry must know enough about her to link her as the daughter of John William Bernard Foxwell. The proper way for me to check this is to build a tree for Alan and see if it agrees with Ancestry. I think it will.

Here is my quick and dirty tree for Alan:

It got me back to John Parker Frazer who is the Frazer who moved to Australia. Here is his birth record in Kilmactranny Parish, County Sligo, Ireland:

John Parker Frazer  son of Archibald and Catherine Frazer
Born  Jun 28, 1827                                                    
Bapt.  Jul 03, 1827

Also I see that Beatrice’s middle name above is Honora. This is likely from her grandmother Honora White. I checked Jane who is in the Frazer DNA Project and she has a good match to Alan. That means I can add Alan to the purple Frazer Branch from Australia through Robert Alexander Frazer. I have that Robert was born in Richmond outside of Melbourne:

The Frazer Nation keeps expanding.

Moving Gladys Up the Frazer Tree to Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly

As a result of cousin marriages, Gladys shows Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly as her ancestors three times:

This both simplifies things and complicates them at the same time.

Here are Gladys’ ThruLines at this level:

I have covered Philip and Archibald. Gladys also descends from Richard, but I don’t see him here. Let’s look at John.

John Frazer – Born About 1775

Here is TF who sounds familiar and Blair who doesn’t sound familiar. Both of these matches are beyond the 5th cousin level so pretty far out. TF has a private tree and Blair’s tree is public. If the configuration is right, TG and Blair would be 3rd cousins to each other.

The John Frazer Branch doesn’t get much attention, so these matches are interesting.

TFs Tree

I see that TF also matches my sister Heidi – perhaps others of my siblings also. Here is some old research done on the John and Phlip Frazer Branches:

From what I can tell, this shows that John had William, Stewart, Archibald and John. Out of those it looks like William and John went to the USA. If I have this right, it looks like TF follows down from Archibald to John James.

Here is TF’s tree starting with her grandfather Guernsey Preston Frazer:

He was born in Niagara County, New York and died in San Bruno near San Francisco:

Washington Abraham Frazer Born About 1864

Washington married on January 7, 1891 in Ontario even though he and his bride lived in the US:

 

Here is Washington in 1870 in Lockport, NY:

Here is Lockport:

John Frazer Born About 1824 Ireland

Here is the 1865 Lockport Census:

John Frazer was running a hotel in Lockport in 1860:

This Census has John J born in Canada about 1849. This Census also gives a more exact date for the birth of Washington Frazer.

Here is John Frazer and his wife’s grave stone:

Here is the family in 1855:

If the family was in Canada in 1849 and in Niagara County in in 1851, they may have missed the Canadian and US Census.

I have already looked at Marilee who is in the Frazer DNA Project. I put her here on my Frazer DNA chart:

I have that John Frazer was married to Sarah Orr based on the grave stone, but I have seen another marriage record for John Frazer – though possibly a different John. I could probably clear that up by going through all of Sarah’s children’s records to try to find a maiden name for Sarah.

Here is Marilee with TF who I have a third cousins:

Connecting John Frazer to Ireland

I have this record for John James Frazer:

18 Feb 1821  bpt.      John James s. of Archibald and                                                                            Jane (WHITE)           Ardcarne        RI                    ArdC               Address: Aghrafinigan

My guess is that this could be the same person as the John Frazer who lived in Lockport, NY. From John’s grave marker his birth is said to be 14 Feb 1824. My guess is that John may have been born 14 Feb 1821 and baptized four days later. Most of the Census records indicate that John was born around 1824. However, I few indicate that he could have been born earlier. For example, in the 1865 New York Census, John is listed as being 46 which would put his birth at 1819 or 1820.

Blair’s Connection to John Frazer

Again, I’ll build my own tree for Blair. This is what Blair’s tree shows:

Here is the 1881 Ontario Census for Anna Marie Frazer:

If these ages are right, then it would appear there were no parents in the house at the time of the Census. Here is Essa where the family lived in 1881.

The sister of one of my McMaster ancestors lived in nearby Tecumseth for a while. I don’t know if this was a coincidence or not.

Here is Annie’s marriage record from 1898:

The couple married in Cookstown where the red marker is below.

The bride and groom were from Bradford and witness George Frazer was from Bond Head.

Here is the family in 1871 in Gwillimbury West, Ontario. The father William is a farm laborer:

 

Gwillimbury was already shown right below Bradford above in the previous map image.

Tieing William Frazer Into the Irish Frazers

William’s birth appears to be well documented:

14 Jul 1828   b.         William s. of Archibald and Jane (WHITE)           Kilmactranny PR KlmC (MFA)

21 Jul 1828   bpt.      William s. of Archibald and Jane (WHITE)           Ardcarne        RI                    ArdC

I have the same information:

William Frazer  son of  Archibald and Jane Frazer
Born  Jul 14, 1828
Bapt.  Jul 22, 1828

I don’t know if the White above was in the records or someone’s interpretation.

I also found a marriage record for William Frazer:

Here Tecumseth comes into play again. This place was renamed New Tecumseth on the map I showed above.

Here is an interesting photo of William Frazer someone posted at Ancestry:

Tripling the Size of the DNA John Frazer Tree

 

I believe that this tree ties in fairly well by DNA and genealogy. By the way, Marilee tested her DNA at MyHeritage, so would not appear at AncestryDNA. To show their matches with Marilee, TF and Blair would have to upload to Gedmatch or MyHeritage.

Taking Gladys Back to 1690

Here is the final step:

People should be skeptical of these ThruLines that are at a distant level. That means that they should be checked out for accuracy. In the past, I have noted possible additional connections that may by-pass the route all the way up to Archibald from 1690. The fact that these matches are both on the Michael Frazer line may be significant. Also Margaret Frazer and three of her daughters lived in the area of Tecumseth that I mentioned. I match BV at quite a significant level; however, the match probably represents the McMaster side. Perhaps there are other McMaster, Frazer or other connections that I am missing.

Gladys’ Chart of ThruLine Matches

I have Gladys’ Thrulines into 3C, 4C, 5C and 6C. James and Violet Frazer are from Philip and Richard below. The Archibald Frazer 1778 matches are not in the Philip or Richard Frazer groups. Gladys’ matches with TF and Blair seem to be valid matches tracing back to John Frazer born 1775.

Gladys has a good representation of Frazer matches. She also matches two people on the Branch of James Frazer’s son Michael. From other DNA match analysis, my sense is that the common ancestor of Archibald Frazer born about 1690 could be too far removed and that there could be a better choice for common ancestor. However, the common ancestor of Archibald Frazer from 1690 is not rulted out either.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It took a while to go through Gladys’ ThruLines, because I checked on the genealogy of some of her matches.
  • I found a new important record for brothers Edward and Alexander Frazer who were living in Lancashire in 1861.
  • I was able to link these families back to the Frazers of North Roscommon, Ireland.
  • I was able to add two more Branches to the John Frazer Born 1775 Line to my combined DNA match/Frazer genealogy chart.
  • I looked at Gladys’ match with two descendants from the Michael Frazer Line. I was familiar with the connection and have made suggestions in the past haveing to do with the McPartland Family.

 

3 Replies to “Gladys and Her ThruLines on the Archibald Frazer Line”

    1. Thanks Ros, I was working on another Blog on Jane’s ThruLines, but saw that hers were missing. Then I started a Blog on Michael’s ThruLines and the ThruLines changed in the middle of writing the Blog. One of the changes was that Jane appeared in at least one of Michael’s ThruLines, but then Cathy’s connection to Michael disappeared. I guess things are still settling down at AncestryDNA.

      Joel

  1. Joel.I have a significant match of 38cM
    with a Thomas Adams who is a grandson of Archibald Andrew Frazer son of Alexander and Lizzy Moore. I have corresponded but he has no further info.
    I couldn’t work out why I should have such a strong match with the Archibald line…maybe you can!
    My shared matches include T.H. who is Terri Heagy great granddaughter of my grandfather Edward ‘s oldest brother John A P Frazer of Spokane.
    Joanna

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