Category: Frazer

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Another Frazer Theory for My Cousin Paul

My cousin Paul is an important match because he is from a generation closer to my Frazer ancestry compared to me. Here is a Theory I see at MyHeritage:

The Theory says that Paul and Michele are 5th cousins going back to Michael Frazer born 1764 and Margaret Stewart. Here is Michele’s tree at MyHeritage:

Here tree shows her going back to Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott. When I expand Michele’s Tree, it goes back to where we potentially connect:

I have a tree for Michael Frazer which has DNA matches. Here is the part with Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott:

Apparently, the daughter Catherine married a Petterson and then a Patton – confusing. I already have the tree down to Homer Hanham which Michele shows as her great-grandfather. My Ancestry Tree goes down as far as Rachel Patton. Here is a photo I found at Ancestry:

Here is Rachel in the 1900 Census:

Rachel is buried in Tecumseh, Michigan:

Homer is a teacher in Toledo, Ohio in 1940. Here is Judith Ann in the 1940 Census:

I have added Michele to my Michael Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree:

Michele’s DNA

Paul and Michele share a match with my sister Sharon:

The three share a match on Chromosome 9:

That should represent a large chunk of DNA from either Michael Frazer or his wife, Margaret Stewart.

DNA Painter

I can add that DNA to Paul’s DNA Painter profile:

I can also ‘paint’ Sharon’s match. For some reason, she does not have the same Theory yet.

The same problem shows where Paul and Sharon are not matching in the middle. This may be due to the centromere:

That is the part of the chromosome shown by the arrow. I probably had Paul and Sharon’s match from a different company. Here is how Sharon and Paul match at MyHeritage:

Note that there is a break in the DNA Painter Profile. Paul and Michele’s match ends and then the Doreen and Gladys matches start. That is where Sharon’s DNA goes from McMaster DNA to Frazer DNA. Or more specifically, from Margaret McMaster’s to George Frazer’s DNA. Doreen and Gladys are from an earlier line of Frazers. Likewise, Margaret McMaster’s ancestry goes back to Michael Frazer and Margaret Stewart. It seems unusual that such a large segment would travel down through the ages.

Visual Phasing of Chromosome 9

I have done visual phasing for my siblings and myself:

Sharon got a full paternal chromosome of Frazer on her Chromosome 9 as seen by the color Blue. My brother Jim got some, so he may match Michele also. I checked my brother Jim’s matches for Michele, but she did not come up. I checked the location of the match and it starts at about the location where my brother Jim’s Frazer DNA inheritance ends – about location 23 or so.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was happy to find a Frazer Theory for my cousin Paul that filled in some DNA for Paul and my sister Sharon
  • I was able to add Michele to my Michael Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart
  • For a match going back to the 1700’s, Michele shares a lot of DNA with Paul and Sharon.

 

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Updating My Ancient Irish Ancestors Based on Ancestry ThruLines

In my previous Blog, I was happy to find a match that convinced me that I was on the right track on the origin of my older Frazer ancestors. That DNA match was confirmed at MyHeritage and mapped onto my cousin Paul’s DNA Painter profile. In this Blog, I’ll look further into DNA connections along the same line.

ThruLines of Michael Frazer Born About 1764, Cleragh, County Rosommon

This is what I show:

I am a 5th cousin once removed to one person on each of these three children of Michael Frazer.

I already have Bob on my Micheal Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart:

However, I have Ann Frazer in a different tree also:

I had Charlene, Karen and Chris in green perhaps because I was unsure of where they fit in.

My genealogy friend Joanna and distant relative has Bob on her ThruLines in the tree with the green lines (above):

I would say, based on the fact that Joanna knows her side of the tree better than me and also looking at the birth dates of proposed siblings in either case, that Ann fits better on Joanna’s side of the tree. Here I have moved Bob from my Michael Tree to my new Archibald (born 1751) Tree:

 

I show the wider view to show how nicely Ann fits in with the other siblings. Where I had her on the Michael Frazer Tree, she was born 13 years before the next child and 20 years before the oldest child. I notice that I had her birth year shown differently in the two trees, so I changed her birth year to 1823 to be consistent with Joanna’s tree.

Where I have Bob right now, that would make him my 5th cousin once removed – quite a distant match. He shows as a 4th cousin match to Joanna which is less unusual than my match. ThruLines goes out to my 5th great-grandparents and James Frazer on this Line is my 6th great-grandparent. That appears to clear up one major discrepancy in my James Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart.

My Siblings’ ThruLines with Michael Frazer

My sister Heidi has quite a few matches on the Michael Frazer Line:

She has a total of 10 matches that descend from Michael Frazer.

My sister Sharon has the McPartland Matches:

She also matches Patrice as in Heidi’s and my ThruLines.

My brother Jon has four ThruLines:

However, J.F. is Joanna’s brother. So, at least this one ThruLine is apparently wrong. The two Archibalds from the two different lines have created some havoc.

Finally, my other sister Lori’s ThruLines are similar to my older sister Heidi’s:

I will look at the non-Archiabald Lines first as they appear to be easier.

The John Stuart Line Matches

It looks like I do not have John Stuart on my Ancestry tree or on my DNA/Genealogy Tree. This is what Ancestry wants me to look at:

Patrice’s Tree

I’ll add Patrice to my Ancestry as a floating tree. That means I’ll connect him to two parents, then take those parents away. I go to edit relationships:

I put him in as the son of Michael and Margaret, but I will just X them out at parents. This birth certificate fills in some gaps in Patrice’s tree:

I added this to my floating tree:

Unfortunately, Hellen McKay was put in as living by default, so I need to correct that. Ancestry has this potential couple for Hellen:

This marriage transcript gives Hellen’s birth date:

In the 1900 Census, Hellen shows up as Nellie:

Nellie’s father Robert was a paper maker in Flint, Michigan.

When I tried to add Robert’s marriage record, Ancestry tells me that I have already added this record to another tree. I had built a separate tree for Patrice in the past. The marriage was performed by a Roman Catholic Priest. Here is the tree I had:

Here is an obituary for Robert:

Here is the McKay family in 1870 in East Saginaw, Michigan:

Here is the family in 1860:

The family moved from Canada between 1853 and 1856. If the ages are correct, then Mary must have had Elizabeth at about age 17.

This could be their marriage:

This child who was born in 1850 and baptized in 1854 in the Methodist Church may be a clue as to the father of Mary Frazer:

Patrice’s Shared DNA Matches with My Sister Heidi

Patrice and Heidi have 4 pages of shared matches. Here is one with a proposed common ancestor:

However, when I check Joanna’s tree (a top Frazer genealogist), I see this:

Joanna shows that I would be more closely tied in to Michael Frazer through Catherine Matilda Frazer. That should make Heidi and Darlene 5th cousins rather than 6th cousins. I also note that Catherine named one of her sons John Stewart Frazer Brady.

Here is another shared match between Heidi and Patrice. S.C. has Catherine Matilda Frazer as her ancestor:

Using the same reasoning as above, Heidi and S.C. should be 4th cousins once removed.

Back to the genealogy, I see that Joanna has a grave marker for John Stuart Frazer:

The inscription appears to say, “of the Country of Boyle, Co. Roscommon, Ireland:

Joanna has John Stuart Frazer in Tuscola, Michigan in 1860:

This must be close to East Saginaw where the McKay family was living in 1870. Joanna also has this 1860 record:

John McKay is living with John S ‘Frazure’. Also next door is a James Frazure who is apparently John S.’s son, born in New York State.

Based on all the above evidence, I have added John Stuart Frazer to my floating tree:

According to Joanna again, Michael Frazer lived in Church Hill, Roscommon:

Church Hill was within the Parish of Ardcarn:

However, I notice that there is a Mr. Mick Frazer & Co. listed in the Tithe Applotments living and/or owning land in Cleragh in 1834:

The connection between John Stuart Frazer and Michael appears to be in the name of Michaels wife: Margaret Stewart or Stuart.

Adding Patrice to My Michael Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree

All the above work is to convince myself that I have the right tree and right connection between my sister Heidi and Patrice:

Heidi and Patrice are 5th cousins once removed.

Ellis, Darlen, S.C., and Brieanna

I would like to add these three to my Michael Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree:

They are on my sister Heidi’s ThruLines. These three descend from Catherine Matilda Frazer born 1825. In addition, here is Brieanna with a proposed match to my sister Lori:

I plan to add these four to my Michael Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree. Here is Joanna’s record for Catherine Matilda Frazer:

Apparently Mysilla is a variant of Priscilla.

Updating My Michael Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree

I got this far, but Joanna did not have much information on Margaret Brady:

I see that Ellis has some information on Margaret Brady:

Unfortunately, it appears that Margaret died quite young:

Evans Mills is not far from Ontario:

Here is how the Michael Frazer Line is filling up with DNA matches:

The only caveat is, that if this is right, Mary Frazer married William Frazer, so we would be related on generation back also on the William Frazer Line. They would have been second cousins, but I also desecend from William Frazer’s father. We can’t be sure which side the DNA is from, but it is more likely to come from the Michael Frazer Line.

Michael to Archibald ThruLines

I already have BK on my tree:

I mentioned above that J.F. is under the wrong Arhcibald according to his sister’s genealogy which I trust. Here is what I have for this Archibald:

ThruLines of Michael Frazer Through His Son (Henry) Patrick

Here is what I have so far:

I am not sure why Wejum has a different color. Actually, I looked this person up and Wejum was a ThruLine for Beverly who is a descendant of Archibald and Catherine Knott. Beverly has a lot more ThruLines now:

Beverly is two generations higher on the Michael Frazer tree, so her matches are much better than mine or my siblings’. She is a good check to my matches.

Here is what my sister Heidi shows:

It turns out that Richard is the son of Alvie. I’m not sure why I didn’t add Richard to my tree. I even found a photo of Georg H. Frazer:

Here is his obituary:

Here, I add Richard and add a ThruLine note:

Michael, Son of Michael Frazer ThruLines

My sister Heidi has this:

Looks like Michael Junior moved to Saugherties, New York:

I’m just going to assume based on the Census and the DNA matches that the genealogy is correct. Here is Saugherties:

Michael Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree

The tree is getting quite large now:

I circled my sister Heidi on the left part of the chart. The part I added is on the right. Here are two things I cannot explain on Heidi and Monica’s shared matches:

 

I know how I am related to Jane and Michael on the other side of the Frazer tree, but not on this side of the tree. So it is interesting that Monica are related to the two. Keith makes sense because he descends from Jame and Fanny McMaster.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Following a match in a previous Blog I wrote, I am more certain than ever that I descend from the Michael Frazer Linen. He was born around 1764 in the Northern part of County Roscommon. I was able to add some ThruLine matches to the Michael Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree.
  • I moved McPartland out of the Michael Frazer Portion of the Tree. However, I am not certain that was the right move based on the DNA match. I followed Frazer researcher Joanna in this case and used her tree as a reference.
  • These descendants of Michael moved to Ontario, Michigan or New York. My Frazer Line stayed longer in County Sligo and some moved to Massachusetts or England. One family remains in County Sligo.
  • ThruLines have been accurate for the most part for my Michael Frazer descendant relatives. They have a difficult time in interpreting the matches in the cases where the genealogy is already confusing.
  • I found some shared matches from the Michael, son of Michael Line that were difficult to explain. The matches are probably from very old DNA or from unknown genealogical connections.

 

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My Cousin Paul’s Frazer Theory at MyHeritage

I recently looked at my cousin Paul’s Theories of Relativity at MyHeritage and saw this interesting one:

I already have a large Frazer DNA/Genealogy tree for this branch of the Frazers:

There may be some mistakes. I notice that I have McPartland here and also in another branch, so they should not be in both places. I do not have Fitzgerald Frazer here, but do have him on my web page:

Here is Franklyn’s tree at MyHeritage:

Ancestry shows a marriage certificate for William M Frazer:

This line seems pretty well documented:

Here is Haverstraw where Fitzgerald lived:

Frazer DNA

Here is how Franklyn and Paul match by DNA:

The match on Chromosome 17 is 6.8 cM and the cutoff for DNA Painter by default is 7 cM, so I won’t count that little segment. Here is Paul’s already busy Chromosome 12:

Notice that I do not have Michael Frazer in the Key above. Michael would add an important DNA link in this whole puzzle:

Franklyn is the missing piece of the puzzle between Joanna and BV.

Every Picture Tells a Story

I can try to interpret the meaning of all these segments on Paul’s Chromosome 12:

 

There appear to be breaks in the DNA matches which to me indicate breaks between Paul’s inherited Frazer side DNA and the McMaster side DNA.

The first section appears to be McMaster shown in blue. Suzzanne does not have any known McMaster, so this may indicate a small false reading or that Suzanne does have McMaster ancestry somewhere.

Barry has no known McMaster ancestor, so I have his section as Frazer.

The third section has John whose common Ancestor with Paul was Abe McMaster and Margery (no known last name). Keith also has two McMaster ancestors.

The fourth section appears to be just Frazer as Joanna has no known McMaster ancestors. Her ancestor was James Frazer who was born around 1720. Franklyn also has no known McMaster ancestors.

BV and Susan

Notice that BV and Susan are in both the McMaster and Frazer sections. BV descends from William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. So actually the common DNA represented by the orange would be from William McMaster and not his wife.

 

Susan’s McMaster ancestor is Margaret McMaster born 1846 at Kilmactranny, County Sligo. Keith has the ancestors of James and Fanny McMaster, but the common ancestor between him and my ancestors would be James McMaster.

Technically, the DNA that Paul and BV share in the fourth section representing Frazer is from Margaret Frazer born 1780 and not her husband William McMaster.

Adding Franklyn to My Frazer DNA/Genealogy Tree

This tree just represents my older half of my Frazer genealogy going back to James Frazer born about 1720.

Unfortunately, the tree got so large that the program could not handle it. The blank circle should be Franklyn. Also, Susan did not make it onto the chart. She would be on the lower row with Paul:

Here, I split out the Michael Line and added all my cousins in purple:

I guess Michael and his wife would be surprised to know about all their descendants. This chart includes Susan and Franklyn. The only one who is missing from the above chart is Joanna who descends from Michael Frazer’s father James Frazer.

On Second Thought

After looking at Paul’s DNA Painter profile, I thought that this may be a further refinement:

Barry has no known connection to the James Frazer Line. Joanna, BV (Barbara) and Franklyn have no known connections to the Archibald Line. Here is the Elphin Census of 1749 showing Archibald, James and their apparent mother Mary Frazer:

Mary Frazer had one male servant. Susan and the group in the darker green descend from both the Archibald and James Frazer Lines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Finding Paul’s match to Franklyn at MyHeritage, including an accurate Theory was very helpful
  • That match fills in a gap which appears to solidify the fact that Margaret Frazer born 1780 and married William McMaster was indeed the daughter of Michael Frazer and Margaret Stewart.
  • By looking at Paul’s DNA Painter profile, it is possible to separate out different Frazer and McMaster ancestry.

 

 

 

 

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Fun with My Frazer Enhanced Shared DNA Matches at Ancestry

I recently signed up for Pro Tools at Ancestry. The only Pro Tool I have used so far is the enhanced Shared Matches. One Quarter of my ancestry is Frazer. Then that goes back to Clarke and McMaster, so I’d like to take a look at what I have.

Here is my grandmother’s tree so far:

I’m stuck more on the Clark side.

Frazer Enhanced Matches

I’ll start here as it should be simpler than the Clarke side:

Many of these matches are from FTDNA, MyHeritage and 23andMe. Enhanced matches are just from Ancestry. It appears that my Ancestry DNA Frazer matches are at the third cousin level. However, that should include McMaster also technically as the common ancestors for this group are George William Frazer and Margaret McMaster.

One way to see my maches are through ThruLines:

I do have one match at the 2nd cousin level. That is Mabel. Interestingly, I match Faye, my third cousin with more DNA. Here is Mabel and my shared match list:

These are the first five after my niece:

  1. Matthew – on my chart
  2. Rebecca – on my chart
  3. Stephen – need to add
  4. Faye – on my chart
  5. B.V. – older match

Actually, I need to add Mabel. She is the sister of Raymond and Emily:

After adding Mabel, I realized that she and Emily are the same person!

Adding Stephen

I had a note already that Stephen was related to Whitney. When I choose Stephen’s Shared matches with me, I see this:

Whitney is Stephen’s Niece:

Here I have added him to my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart. Stephen must be Lisa’s brother and my third cousin. I made a note at Ancestry to that effect.

Here is how BV is related:

The relationship is on the McMaster side. However, William McMaster married a Frazer. This Frazer is quite distantly related to me.

The next 5 on Mabel and my match list could be more difficult:

I know how I am related to Gladys:

Our common ancestors were James Frazer and Violet Frazer. i believe that they were first cousins. I don’t think I have the other four on the list. However, I have noted previously that they all match Gladys.

Where is Lisa on My Chart?

Next I choose Lisa on my shared match list. I look on the right to see her highest shared match:

Fortunately, that match is with Linda and I have a shared ancestor with her. Ancestry guesses that Lisa is a 1st cousin once removed to Linda.

I don’t know exactly where Lisa fits in, but my guess is around here:

Lisa probably descends from James Clarence Frazer.

When I look at Spen, she is likely from the same branch as Lisa.

I get two hints for Kathryn:

Kathryn is either first cousin or haf niece to SM and Linda. I see that SM is not on my chart, so I will add her as a daughter of Clarence Frazer:

Finally, I have John on my list. John is most closely related to Brad:

However, the blue dot by Brad means that I haven’t even looked at his results.

John’s second largest match is with Matthew:

Matthew is my 3rd cousin:

John has no family tree, but his results are managed by Dawn. Dawn has this tree with her husband in it. This is her husbands part of the tree:

John’s maternal grandfather was my great-grandfather’s brother. That means that I can at least add John to my tree:

John would be my 2nd cousin once removed. I need to write to Dawn to find out if the John who took the test was her husband. It looks like from my notes that I did write two years ago, but didn’t hear back. It is helpful to have John on the Chart above as it reminds me who he is when the Ancestry match comes up.

Continuing with Mabel

Now I have only three because this is the end of page one of three of shared matches between myself and Mabel. As I side note, I could do this with my four other siblings who have tested at Ancestry and I would get different results and in different order. I don’t know about Alannah, but Matthew and Jan are on my chart.

Here is Alannah’s tree:

The Johnston name comes up a lot in my research, so that could be the link. Alannah’s highest shared match is with BV mentioned above. That match is only 47 cM. My guess is that the connection is quite old – as in the 1700’s.

Here are the first two matches on Page 2 of Mabel and my shared matches. I know where keith fits in on my McMaster side. I am not familiar with Lila. Lila’s tree shows some ancestors that came from Ireland and went to Ontario. I found a first and a second cousin to Lila, but their trees were not useful.

Five More on Page 2

I’m still interested in the list, so will keep going:

All these shared matches have some sort of tree. There is one match that I have not looked at named KS.

Morgan is and estimated 1st cousin once removed with Keith. I see that he is already on my chart.

Morgan should show up on my ThruLines, but perhaps I haven’t kept up at Ancestry with my McMaster side. Also Morgan does not have a linked tree, so we would not show on ThruLines because of that.

Mary

Mary is the sister of Lila. Mary and Lila are still a bit of a mystery.

K.S.

Here is KS’ tree:

A lot of these names have come up in my DNA matches, but they have stumped me so far. KS’ largest DNA match is with Mabel.

John

His match seems to go back to the 1700’s in Ireland on my Mcmaster or Frazer side or both.

n.f.

n.f. is most closely related to Matthew.

That means that he must descend from Hubert Frazer.

Looking at the Clarkes

Here is my closest Clarke descendant match at Ancestry:

Ronald is also related to me on my McMaster side, but more distantly, so that creates some potential difficulties.

Above are the top six shared matches I have with Ron.

Cheryl

Cheryl has no tree. However, she shows as a first cousin once removed to Kyle who has this tree:

There is the Lougheed name again. They are from County Sligo where my McMaster and Clarke ancestors lived. Frazers lived there also, but earlier, they were in North Roscommon. My guess is that Cheryl also has Lougheed ancestry.

Another unusual thing about Cheryl is that I have 13 pages of shared matches with her. I didn’t check every match but every match she had with a good tree had a Lougheed in it. One theory, based on the number of Lougheed matches is that Lougheed is the mother of Jane Spratt:

However, this match is still a mystery until I can work out the genealogy.

Nina – A Spratt Connection?

L.R. is Shani’s child, so I will move on to Nina. Here is Nina’s tree:

I think that Spratt is a relatively uncommon name. The connection must be on the Spratt side. Nina has a large match with Ed:

Deb also has a good match with a better tree:

Deb’s paternal side:

Here it is clear that Deb is in fact a half niece as Wray Lionel must have had two marriages.

Craig also has an interesting match to Nina:

That means that Ancsetry is right is saying that Craig is Nina’s 2nd cousin once removed:

Notice that there are no Lougheed ancestors. Ancestry thinks that Nina and I could be third cousins once removed. Assuming that is right, our common ancestors could be:

1775 seems a long time ago, but third cousin once removed does not seem like that distant of a relationship. However, I would not be surprised if the connection is at least a generation back. I have three out of found sibllings at Ancestry that showed shared matches with Nina and all their matches are at a lower level than mine.

Helena

Helena matches Nina and me with modest amounts of DNA:

Helena’s maternal genealogy goes back to William Spratt:

It appears that Christopher was older than average when he had Rachel and George. It is also possible that the Jane Spratt in my tree born in or around 1830 is a daughter of Christopher Spratt or a daughter of one of his brothers.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I started out looking at my somewhat easier Frazer shared matches
  • By looking at shared matches, I added some names to my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Charts. Other names I could figure out where they should be approximately on those Charts
  • I then looked at the more difficult Clarke side
  • The name Lougheed comes up quite often. My guess is that name is associated with Jane Spratt’s (b. 1830) maternal side
  • Another separate group of shared matches went back to earlier Spratts of Enniskiilen, Ireland (Fermanagh County). This line is likely the line of Jane Spratt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My Cousin Paul’s Theories of Relativity

MyHeritage does Theories of Relativity. They are like Ancestry’s ThruLines. MyHeritage compares ancestral trees and matches them with DNA matches. This can be very helpful. I have looked at Paul’s Theories in the past, but they need updating.

Here are Paul’s Theories:

These Theories will be from the Frazer and McMaster families as that is where Paul and I match. Here is an update of my chart:

This is my attempt to be more comprehensive in my look at Paul’s Theories. For example, I don’t have Melanie on Paul’s DNA Painter profile, but I don’t need her there as her mother is already there. I have one of the John’s on my McMaster DNA/Genealogy Chart, but I forgot to put him on Paul’s DNA Painter profile. The blanks are ones that I appear to not have looked at yet.

John on the Robert Line and DNA Painter

Here is John on the Robert Line:

Paul and John should be 4th cousins and MyHeritage’s Theory of Relativity agrees. Here is where Paul and John match:

The Chromosome 8 match looks large, but it is only 6 cM which is below the standard amount that DNA Painter will add.

On Chromosome 14, John adds some new mappimg area. On Chromosome 18, John shows that matches with Emily, Raymond, and Faye are actually on the McMaster side and not on the Frazer side. Further, it explains on which McMaster line this DNA comes from:

My second great-grandmother Margaret McMaster had two McMaster parents. This DNA was from the James McMaster side.

Painting John to My Sister Heidi

Heidi and John match on the first two chromosomes:

Heidi’s match on Chromosome 1 was too small to paint. Here is Chromosome 2;

The blue matches are on my Hartley side. Here, John’s DNA identifies the match with Susan as being on the McMaster and not the Frazer side. I didn’t have other DNA painted from Abraham McMaster and his wife, so I added that for Heidi.

Painting John to my Sister Sharon’s DNA Painter Profile

Sharon and John:

Sharon’s Chromosome match with John is large enough to paint.

Again John paints a new area for Sharon on Chromosome 1 and identifies other Frazer/McMaster matches on Chromosome 2.

Paul and Brian

MyHeritage shows:

I will create a floating tree for Brian. Here is an obituary for Ethel:

In 1900, James McMaster was a farm laborer in Hinsdale, Massachusetts:

Here is Hinsdale:

Here is the tree I have so far:

This tree is following the Theory.

Here is some more information on James McMaster (which my tree shows as McMasters):

According to the 1880 Census, Charles McMaster must have been born in Ireland:

Unfortunately, Charles had apparently died as Rachel shows as a widow. I notice that Brian has this interesting note on his family tree at Ancestry:

I would tend to agree with Brian. The William I descend from had children who were etiher in Ontario or stayed in Ireland.

I see that this is likely the same family in 1870 in Berlin, New York:

Ancestry has the surname as McMartus, though I can also see where this could be McMasters. The transcriber has Mary Blowers which makes sense as Brian has Rachel as Rachel Blowers.

I also see that Berlin is not far from Massachusetts and Vermont:

Here is where Brian matches my cousin Paul:

Here I have put Brian under Abraham McMaster, on Paul’s DNA Painter profile though there were some doubts as expressed above:

That tells me that Paul matches his Frazer relatives on the McMaster side on Chromosome 2 where those matches over lap with Brian.

Paul and Berenice

Paul and Berenice show as 4th cousins at MyHeritage. I’m going to shortcut and not evaluate Berenice. Besides, she shows as a 1st cousin to the John I already have on this line.

Paul and Brad

I don’t recall this match:

Unfortunately, Brad’s tree is missing some information:

It appears that Brad would have his mother a Long rather than a McMaster. Brad does show his paternal grandmother as a McMaster:

It looks like I can fill in some blanks. John had Andrew who married Evelyn:

That should be enough to go on for now. This stone is from the West Bothwell Cemetery in Ontario:

However, something still does not add up. MyHeritage has that Brad is in his 70’s. That means that he was born in the late 1940’s or early 1950’s. If Evelyn was mother this would make more sense as she would be in her 20’s at that time. The person who manages Brad’s DNA is clearly the daughter of Evelyn McMaster. I will assume that Bev is Brad’s sister.

It looks like Evelyn would have been about 32 when Bev was born. Here is Evelyn in 1931:

Below is Evelyn potential great-grandfather William at age 98. I think that it will be difficult to place this family with certainty.

Here is where Brad matches Paul by DNA:

The 1891 Census appears to show an extended McMaster family group:

William J is living with siblings and parents: William and Sarah McMaster. An elder Eliza McMaster is also living with them. She is perhaps the grandmother bron about 1810.

William’s parents names are given on his death certificate:

This says that William’s parents were Abraham McMaster and Bessie Johnston. I have this already on my McMaster DNA/Genealogy Tree:

I had added in the past to the Abraham McMaster/Bessie Johnston Line but did not save it. I’ll add Brad now.

We think that Eliza made it to Ontario and perhaps her husband. Also I see that brothers William and Mark McMaster both married Crundwells.

Next, I add Brad to Paul’s DNA Painter Profile:

These are new sections painted to Paul’s chromosomes and the first from the Abraham McMaster/Bessie Johnston Line. This raised Paul’s overall painted DNA from 12 to 13%. That doesn’t seem like much, but I am only looking at Paul’s paternal side, so he is painted 26% on his paternal side.

While I’m at it, I’ll add Christina’s match to Paul on his profile:

I also mention Christina in my previous Blog.

Paul and Justin

Here is a progress update. Hopefully it is accurate:

Se that there are twice as many identified McMaster Theories compared to Frazer Theories. Justin shows in the Frazer camp:

I am initially skeptical of this connection. Here is the full Theory:

Many on the connections have low probabilities of being correct. I’ll move on to the next Theory.

Pamela and Paul on the McMaster Side

For some reason, two generations show as ‘Deleted profile’. First, I will try to recreate Pamela’s tree but putting Pamela in my tree as a floating tree. It appears that Elsie’s father should be Archibald:

Here is Steiglitz, near Melbourne:

I borrowed from an Ancestry tree to see that Archibald is actually Archibald McPherson III.

In my own tree, I have this information:

This is from an email I received in 2009.

So my tree for Pamela should have a McMaster by now, but has a Tait:

Here we have possibilities:

  1. Archibald had two different wives
  2. One tree is right and one is wrong.
  3. There was more than one Archibald born around 1860

Here is a gravestone from Meredith, AUS:

Meredith appears to be in the right part of the World:

I am not sure where the confusion is, but I am going with the Archibald from the gravestone above. My tree has an Archibald born 1860 and another Ancestry tree has this Archibald McPherson born 1867. I am not sure if this is the discrepancy:

So between the DNA match, my old email and other Ancestry Trees, I will add this Line in to my tree. This appears to be the other McPherson, buried in Gisorne:

I’ll add Pamela to my McMaster DNA/Genealogy Chart:

Here is Pamela on Paul’s DNA Painter profile:

This is confusing as this shows overlapping DNA from the McMaster and Frazer side on Chromosome 12. This suggests that Suzzanne could be related on the McMaster side.

Finally, Paul and Josephine

Josephine is Paul’s last Theory at this time:

 

Based on other Archibald McMaster/Elizabeth Meehan descendants, this connection seems likely. Paul and Josephine match on Chromosome 14 in this area:

This is the John that I mention earlier in the Blog who descends from Robert McMaster.

Based on the share matches between Paul and Josephine, the connection seems pretty certain. Here is Lalbert where Elizabeth McMaster Meehan was buried:

Here is a birth record for Margaret Mary Meehan borrowed from an Ancestry Tree:

This record is helpful:

Again, I will borrow this record from another Ancestry Tree:

That seems to close the circle. I will now add Josephine to my McMaster DNA/Genealogy Tree:

All that is left to do is to add the DNA match to Paul’s DNA Painter Profile:

Here is a summary:

Summary and Conclusions

  • It was helpful to look at Paul’s Theories at MyHeritage as Paul is one generation closer to common ancestors than me or my siblings.
  • The McMaster tree is quite large. This is just the tree I go back on on my James McMaster side. I have another tree for Fanny McMaster who married James McMaster.
  • The McMaster families that I tracked were in the US, Canada and Australia.
  • There was some confusion on some of the Frazer Theories. The connection for Justin was unclear. I already know the connection for Joanna, but MyHeritage did not show the right connection. This is understandable as the connection is a bit convoluted. I already had the connection to Suzzanne, but when mapped on Paul’s DNA Painter Profile, it appears that Suzzanne’s connection could be on the McMaster side.
  • I agreed with Brian that his McMaster connection was through Archiabald McMaster, but based on naming conventions, I could also see the possibility that he could be connected on the William McMaster side.

 

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A New Frazer BigY Test Completed

I am descended from Frazers from North Roscommon County, Ireland on my paternal grandmother’s side. I have tested a Frazer cousin to get Frazer YDNA results. Similarly, Mansoor has used his maternal Uncle by last name of Barker to take a BigY test to get his Frazer results. Mansoor’s goal is to find the identity of his grandfather Thomas’ true father. Autosomal testing of Mr. Barker already showed that he was related to a branch of the Frazers even though his last name is not Frazer.

Barker’s BigY Results

These results were not what I had expected, but they are very interesting. I had thought that Barker’s result (shown as ‘your branch’) would help to identify clarify Dingman’s results. However, what Barker’s results have done so far is split the James Frazer Branch where Rodney and Jonathan are.

The Archibald and James Frazer Lines

Genealogical evidence shows that there were two male head of household Frazers named Archibald and James living in North Roscommon in 1749.

Their father believed to be another Archibald Frazer has died by this time as indicated by the enumeration of Mary Frazer, ‘widdow’. From this all Frazer genealogy starts with two Frazer Lines: Archibald and James. Here is an image I have from a previous Blog. These are the lines of those who had previously taken the BigY test including their YDNA Branch names:

Previoiusly Rodney and Jonathan were in the Y151390 Branch which was the only known branch of the James Line at the time. Barker’s BigY results have pushed Rodney and Jonathan down a level on the YDNA tree to FT421607 as seen on the Block tree above and in the next image.

A New Genealogy/YDNA Tree

Here is my revised tree:

 

 

 

  • All 6 testers come under FT421618.
  • It appears that all testers genealogically come under Archibald Frazer born about 1690. Therefore, it must follow that this Archibald Frazer was FT421618 and passed that down to all his Irish Frazer descendants.
  • Dingman is also FT421618 with no further distinction. This chart had that he descends from John Frazer born 1775. I had previously wondered if he possibly had descended from John’s brother Richard or from the James Line. However Barker’s new testing makes it seem more likely from purely YDNA testing that Dingman is on the Archibald Line
  • I have the new Y151390 between James born 1720 and Archibald born 1751. There is no way right now to know who was the first to have this SNP. It may also be Archibald Frazer born 1792.
  • If Dingman was from the James Line, then James could not be the one to first have Y151390, but it seems for now that Dingman is in the right Frazer Line.
  • We know that Rodney and Jonathan both have FT421607. Therefore, Thomas Henry Frazer must have that SNP. However, we do not know if he was the first in that Line to have that SNP.
  •  We don’t know the genealogy for Barker. However, we know that he did not descend from Thomas Henry Frazer. That means that Barker descended from either Archibald Frazer born 1792, Archibald Frazer born 1751 or James Frazer born 1720.

Some More BigY Detail

In order for Barker to have split the previous SNP Block, he must be positive for Y151390 and negative for FT421607. In some ways, the negative results are more important:

This is Barker’s test results showing that for every read that the location of FT421607 there was no mutation. That means that Barker is negative for FT421607.

This shows the results for the new SNP that Barker is in:

A mutation from C to T puts Barker as Y151390.

As a new branch has formed, FTDNA will likely perform a manual review.

Also, Y151390  and FT421607 will be split out and placed in FTDNA’s Time Tree which should give a date for these two SNPs. The Time Tree currently does not have FT421607:

 

Summary and Conclusions

  • The new Barker test shows that his genealogy is in the James Line
  • The new BigY test split the old James Line branch into two
  • The test shows that Barker must descend from James Frazer born 1720 or his son Archibald born 1751 or the next Archibald born 1792
  • The new test seems to support that Dingman is from the Archibald line
  • FTDNA should do a manual review on this test
  • FTDNA will also update their Time tree to include the new FT421607

 

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Placing AncestryDNA Matches the Michael Frazer Tree with ThruLines

This Blog is a more concise summary of the Blog I wrote here. Ancestry does a good job of trying to connect DNA matches and genealogies using a computer program called ThruLines. This is the right thing to do. However, Ancestry produces its ThruLines with published genealogies which can sometimes be off track or confusing.

Years ago, I saw that some in my family had a fairly large DNA match with a person named BV at Ancestry. Looking into BV’s genealogy, I saw that I matched her on her McMaster side. Here are my brother Jon’s ThruLines:

I found out that my ancestor Margaret Frazer married William McMaster and then moved with her family to Ontario. My 3rd great-grandmother Fanny married in Ireland and stayed behind. It was clear from the DNA that our match to BV was on the James Line of Frazers. That Line had mostly descendants from James Frazer’s sons Archibald Frazer and Michael Frazer. There was also a Patrick Frazer, but I am not aware of DNA matches that I have from this line. From DNA matches to others and from genealogy clues, I reasoned that Margaret was likely the daughter of Michael Frazer and Margaret Stuart.

BK

Ancestry has since added others to the Michael Frazer Tree using ThruLines:

My brother Jon’s ThruLines shows a match to BK on the Michael Frazer Line. I looked into BK’s genealogy and it checked out. It turns out that the Archibald above also moved to Ontario from Ireland. From there, we can track down his descent to BK. Unfornutately, the J.F. in the ThruLines is not correct. He descends from a different Archibald Frazer. But, his Archibald stayed in Ireland. Here is the tree of researcher Joanna (brother of J.F.):

Her ancestors beginning with Edward F Frazer were from Ireland and then later generations moved to England. The ThruLines mix up Archibald Frazer born in 1792 and Archibald Frazer born 1801. So how did Ancestry get this wrong?

More on J.F.

J.F. is placed incorrectly at this time at least on one of my siblings’ ThruLines. I have access to J.F’s sister Joanna’s ThruLines:

Here, of course, Joanna is placed correctly. I am sure that if I had access to J.F.’s ThruLines, he would also show that he is descended from Archibald Frazer born 1792 and not the one born 1801. That means that J.F. is placed incorrectly in one ThruLine and correctly in another. In Ancestry’s defense, there has been a lot of confusion in the various trees and the genealogy does get a bit confusing with many Archibalds Frazer.

A Complicating Factor

Interestingly, here is Joanna’s ThruLines going back to James the father of Michael and Archibald:

James had a daughter named Elizabeth. She marries a Knott and they have a daughter Catherine. Catherine marries Archibald Frazer born 1801 and BK also descends from this ancestry. That makes BK a 5th cousin once removed to Joanna and J.F.

ThruLines for Monica

My sister Heidi shows more ThruLines on the Michael Frazer Line:

ThruLines has Monica under Michael, son of Michael.

Monica’s nephew Kyle is also shown under this branch. When I checked out Monica’s ancestry, I found this (from a previouis ThruLine):

I got Monica back to a Michael Frazer, but he was born in 1810. Before that, I lost track of the genealogy. Assuming the dates are correct, Michael born in 1810 could not be the son of Archibald born in 1801. That means that since I wrote the previous Blog, there appears to be a correction in the ThruLines that reflects the information that I found. Here is a case where, to me, it seems that the same name for the son plus a DNA connection seems to make up for lack of a birth record for Michael Frazer born around 1810.

More on Michael Frazer Born 1810

I find it interesting that Ancestry came up with a logical conclusion that I also came up with. I wonder if there are trees which suggest that Michael born in 1810 was the son of Michael born in 1764. When I go back to my sister Heidi’s ThruLines and click on Michael Frazer born 1810, I get this note:

Here we see that Joanna has added Michael to her tree:

Here is what the other Tree at Ancestry shows:

So based on these two trees, Ancestry changed the ThruLines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Years ago, I discovered a DNA match with a McMaster/Frazer common ancestor. The Frazer was Margaret Stuart Frazer and I placed her by best fit as the daughter of Michael Frazer (who married a Stuart) and who was born about 1764.
  • Since then, there have been more ThruLines for this same Michael Frazer
  • Recently two matches came up: BK and Monica
  • BK is descended from Archibald Frazer (born 1801) who is believed to be the son of Michael Frazer born 1764
  • Monica is descended from a Michael Frazer born 1810. This Michael is likely a later son born to Michael Frazer of 1764
  • I also looked at J.F. who was incorrectly placed in one of my sibling’s ThruLines as descending from Michael of 1764. J.F. and Joanna correctly descend from a different Archibald born 1792 and son of another Archibald (brother of Michael born 1764).
  • Further as my brother Jon matches J.F, the correct ThruLines for for Jon and J.F. would go back to James Frazer who was born about 1720. This is based on genealogy that we are aware of. There may be other connections that we are not aware of.
  • The moral is that ThruLines change and can be incorrect at times, so they have to be studied and interpreted correctly. It is easier to tell the the wrong ThruLines than to prove that one is right. However, proving one is wrong can lead to the likelihood that the ancestor is in a different Line.

 

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A Frazer/McMaster DNA Connection with Monica

A while back I noticed this DNA match with a proposed Common Ancestor at Ancestry:

The DNA match is actually with my sister Heidi. Monica also matches my brother Jon by the same amount of cMs. The good thing about the match with Monica is that Heidi and Monica also have recognizable Share Matches:

These Shared DNA Matches also have common ancestors. Jane and Michael match on the Richard Frazer side:

Keith matches on the McMaster side:

As far as I know, Keith has no Frazer genealogy, however, going back there could be Frazer there somewhere. [However, see below for clarification.] Here is another depiction of some of the McMaster connections by genealogy and DNA:

What if the Margery noted at the top of the Chart was a Frazer?

A Theory Gone Wrong

Initially, I had thought that Ancestry’s Common Ancestor of Michael Frazer from the James Line of Frazers should make sense. That is because I believe that our family is more distantly related to the Michael Line through William McMaster and Margaret Frazer who I believe to be the daughter of Michael Frazer. However, my genealogy friend Joanna from Scotland says that the Common Ancestor connection as shown in Ancestry is not right.

Building a Tree for Monica

I’ll try to build out a tree for Monica and see if I come to the same conclusion as Joanna. However, before I do that, I see that my sister Lori also matches Monica at a slightly higher level – 20 cM. She also has a few more Shared DNA matches with Monica:

Rob has no tree and Lawrence’s tree is has only three private people. However, Lori’s Shared Matches with Rob shows this:

The Common Ancestor between Lori and BK shows this:

Interestingly, BK’s own tree deviates from what Ancestry has:

BK has a Jane Cole in his ancestry where Ancestry has Mary Patterson.

Also my note for MT:

This points out that in the ancestry of James Archibald McMaster, there is a McMaster connection. This means that despite what I said above, Keith does actually have Frazer ancestry:

The common ancestor between Keith and my family is Fanny McMaster, but Fanny’s mother was Margaret Frazer.

Back to Monica’s Genealogy

The confusion is that it would fit in well if Monica’s genealogy went back to Michael Frazer. I believe, but have not proven, that Michael Frazer is the father of Margaret Frazer above.

Monica’s tree only goes out two generation on her Frazer side. John Frazer was in the 1940 Census:

A hint is that John’s parents were both born in Schenectady according to that Census. William was a welder at General-Electric.

Here is Schenectady on the Mohawk River. I have panned out as there was also a Poughkeepsie Frazer family living there which caused the confusion.

William Frazer

Here is what findagrave has about William Frazer:

Interestingly findagrave has William born in Glasgow, Delaware. Here is William in 1930:

William was listed as an ‘electric welder’ in 1930. The rest of the family is listed on the previous page:

I don’t see any mention of Deleaware on this Census either. The father Joseph was listed as an invalid. In the 1910 Census, we see that Joseph’s mother was living with them in Saugherties, NY:

She immigrated about 1843?

Saugherties is a little closer to Poughkeepsie than Schenectady.

Joseph Frazer Born about 1862

In 1900, Joseph was a boatman living in Saugherties:

Here is the family in 1880:

This connects well as we last saw Matilda in the 1910 Census. If I read that Census correctly, she had 14 children! In 1880, the family lived in Glasco:

Unfortunately, I have not been doing a good job in identifying the spouses of Frazers:

So there is a Michael in the ancestry of Monica. Michael would be her 2nd great-grandfather.

Here is the 1850 Census for Saugherties:

Here is the next page:

These look to be daughters Margaret and Sarah, both born in New York.

The death record for Michael’s son William gives his mother’s last name as Young:

Findagrave gives a death date for Michael:

Who was Michael’s Father?

I could make some guesses, but first I would like to build out the tree for BK. Remember that Rob was a shared match between Lori and Monica. Then when I chose shared matches between Rob and Lori, I came up with BK. BK showed the same common ancestor at Ancestry:

However between Lori and Monica, I showed that the connection up to Michael Frazer born in 1764 was not right. Here is BK’s tree and point at which it diverges from the connection above:

BK has Myra Ackerman and Ancestry has Mary Patterson. Also not that Myra must have been 13 when she had Homer which doesn’t sound right. Also that Homer has a middle name of Patterson. My thought is that the DNA Matching between Lori, Monica and BK may triangulate. In addition, that means that the three family trees may also triangulate.

A Tree for BK

First, I’ll check to see if I already have a tree for BK. I don’t see any.

Here I have started my own tree for BK, I have indicated in the name of the tree that I am looking for Frazer/McMaster ancestry. Homer Patterson Cooper seems to be the best line to trace at this time. Here is Lois in Pittsburgh in 1920 with her family:

The Census further shows that Homer was born in Pennsylvania, but that both his parents were born in Michigan.

Homer P Cooper Born 1886

We see Homer’s middle name from his World War I Draft Registration:

Here is Homer in 1900:

From this, we learn that the family was in Michigan in 1884. Here is the previous page of the same Census:

The family was also briefly in Ohio. Michigan seems like the right path to follow as I know that some Frazer and McMaster ancestors ended up in Ontario and then went on to Michigan from there. BK also has some Ontario ancestors in his tree.

Joseph Cooper Born 1854 in Michigan

This certainly seems like the marriage record for Joseph:

This record indicates that Joseph was a widower at the time of his marriage in 1878. Here I see the problem. Joseph’s children were by a previous wife. Unfortunately, Ancestry added Myra as the mother to Joseph’s children. I went in and took out Myra as the mother. Here is my Ancestry Fact page on Joseph corrected:

The problem that I see is that it appears that Joseph’s children were born after the 1880 Census. Ancestry gives this hint for Joseph’s first marriage, though the details seem somewhat sketchy:

This would certainly explain the Patterson in Homer’s name. Here is a birth of Annie Maria Cooper in Arthur, Ontario:

Here is Arthur:

The connection to Joseph as blacksmith pretty much tells me I have the right person. The couple married in Mt. Forest which is not too far from Arthur:

Findagrave has more information on Joseph’s birth place:

It looks like we have identified Joseph’s neighborhood:

However, we are really interested in Mary Patterson.

Mary Patterson Born 1855 Ontario

With any luck, we should find Mary Patterson in the 1861 and 1871 Census for Ontario. Before we look there, I see Mary in 1880 in Cleveland, Ohio:

I note that both Joseph and Mary’s parents were born in Ireland. I believe that this is Mary in the 1861 Census for Arthur, Canada:

The Census is difficult to interpret. It appears that there was an extended Paterson family listed – perhpas headed up by John Patterson who was 76. I interpret this to say that Mary’s parents were Anderson and Catherine Patterson – though their last names appear as Patton (perhaps a mistake by the Census-taker? There is a bit of familiarity with Arthur, Canada, as I have looked there before for cionnections.

Patterson/Paton Mystery Solved?

I took to searching my old Blogs to find out what was going on here. I found some answers in a 2019 Blog that I wrote.  Here is what I wrote in that Blog:

Bonnie’s Third Cousin ThruLInes

At this level three additional people are added:

I mentioned Beverly above. Then there are two more people from the Catherine Frazer Line. Bonnie’s tree has Catherine as Catherine Peyton Frazer, but Frazer researcher Joanna points out that the Peyton is not correct as that is from a different Catherine Frazer. Someone added a photo of Catherine Frazer’s daughter Rachel Patton from NO’s ancestry:

LO and NO are from two different lines as Catherine Frazer married a Pattison (aka Patterson) who died. She then married a Patton.

All this to say that Patterson and Paton are both right.

Who Was Catherine Frazer of Ontario?

So far, I have hesitated to add Catherine to my chart of DNA Matches:

This is due to the confusion of who her parents were. It appears that Catherine’s first daughter was Jane:

If Catherine Frazer’s mother was Catherine Knott and she wanted to name her after her mother, then she should have named her Catherine.

Summing Up So Far

  • It appeared from Ancestry, that the common ancestor between Monica and my sister Heidi should be Michael Frazer born in 1764 in Ireland
  • I looked at Monica’s tree and could get her back to a Micael Frazer who was born in 1810 in Ireland and moved to New York State
  • My sister Lori also matches Monica. A shared match between Lori and Monica is Rob. Rob has a shared match with Lori who is BK
  • I got BK’s tree back to Catherine Frazer. I have supposed in the past that this family goes back to Michael Frazer born in 1764 in Ireland.

ThruLines and McMaster/Frazer Charts

I like to write down these DNA matches in charts. These are similar to the Ancestry ThruLines. Here are Lori’s ThruLines going back to Michael Frazer:

Here is some more detail on the Archibald Line:

I have shown above that the connection between BK and Catherine is correct:

Also interesting to note is that assuming I have this right, Michael Frazer bon in 1810 could not be the son of Archibald Frazer born in 1801. That means that Michael born in 1810 could be the son of Michael Frazer born in 1764 or the son of an earlier son of Michael Frazer born in 1764, or from a different line.

Bonnie’s ThruLines

These were not working earlier in the Blog, but now I see them. Joanna tells me that Bonnie does great work on her genealogy:

Here we do not see Edward Wynn Frazer which appears to be correct. How does this compare with my sister Lori’s ThruLines? Both ThruLines have:

  • Margaret Frazer born 1790 (my family is under this line)
  • Mary Frazer born 1798
  • Archicbald Frazer born 1802

I think that Bonnie’s Patrick Henry Frazer born 1803 is the same as the Henry P Frazer born 1804 in Lori’s ThruLines. Lori is missing Fitzgerald Frazer in her ThruLines and I believe that Edward Wynn Frazer in Lori and Bonnie’s ThruLines is wrong.

My James Line Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart

Here is what I have in this area:

I need to add more under the Archibald Line.

Here is the new version:

Here is where I have Edward Wynn on my Chart:

The confusion appears to be that there are two Archibald Frazers. One was born in 1792, son of Archibald, and was of Tullynure. The other was born in 1801, son of Michael, and married Catherine Knott. They were first cousins.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I never placed Monica on the Frazer Tree. She does not descend from Edward Wynn Frazer, but then Edward Wynn does not descend from Michael Frazer. It is likely that Monica descends from Michael Frazer born 1764 as she has an ancestor Michael Frazer born 1810
  • In the process, of looking at Monica’s genealogy, I looked at the genealogy of BK. I added BK to the Michael Line in my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart as well as others from Bonnie’s ThruLines
  • The fact that there were two Archibald Frazers who were first cousins and not born too far apart from each other continues to cause confusion. This genealogical confusion could potentially be sorted out by DNA.
  • It would be interesting to compare the ThruLines of various descendants of the James Frazer Line.

 

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Another Frazer Descendant and DNA Match: Christine

One of the good thing of having a network of Frazer relatives who have had their DNA tested is that I get notified when there is a new match. That happened when Jane told me about a new match she had. Here is what Jane sent me:

Jane has a match to Christine as a 3rd cousin once removed. I have access to Jane’s matches and see that Christine matches Jane at 127 cM. That is actually quite a large match for a third cousin once removed:

Ancestry gives that relationship a 2% chance.

Christine and Me

I match Christine at 18 cM:

Ancestry has Christine and me as half 6th cousins. Actually, I think we must be full cousins. I see that from a previous Blog I wrote, I had identified this line:

This line is from Australia.

My ThruLines at Ancestry

My ThruLines show Christine:

This image also has Jane and Suzanne who I don’t have on my chart. I don’t have Alan on my ThruLines, but he is probably there due to a match to someone else on the Chart.

Christine’s Genealogy

I don’t have any reason to doubt Christine’s genealogy, but I will take a look at it. All the Ancestry trees have Beatrice Frazer as Christine’s grandmother:

I have not done thorough research on this line, but Beatrice’s middle name Honora could come from her grandmother Honora White. Here is a gravestone inscription:

This inscription is from Boroondara, near Melbourne:

Here is Christine added to my Chart:

I have four of my siblings tested at Ancestry. Only one of the four matches Christine. This makes sense as a 6th cousin is quite a distant relationship.

My Match with Suzzanne

It turns out I already wrote a Blog on Suzzanne about a year and a half ago.  The reason I didn’t see her is that I had placed Suzzanne here – on the Richard Frazer Line:

This diagram is meant to indicate that Suzzanne and I have a common ancestor in Rebecca above. This shows that Suzzanne and I are actually 5th cousins – not 6th cousins. I am on the Richard Line because of Violet Frazer. I have that she married her first cousin James Frazer. James Frazer is on the ThruLines but that puts us out another generation. I suppose that I am related to Suzzanne as both 5th and 6th cousin – due to my 1st cousin ancestors: James and Violet Frazer.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Christine is my 6th cousin, so a DNA match at level is somewhat rare. According to FTDNA, I should have a less than 2% chance of matching Christine by DNA.
  • Some of our ancestors married each other’s families which may account for the match.
  • As this is such a distant match, it would be interesting to see on which chromosome Christine and I (and other Frazers) match.
  • I didn’t do a full genealogical analysis of Christine’s tree, but it seems clear that due to a large DNA match with cousin Jane (127 cM), that the genealogy is correct.

 

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FTDNA’s Time Tree for YDNA BigY Testers

FTDNA has a new Time Tree which is interesting. I have three trees that I am interested: Frazer from my father’s mother’s side, Hartley from my side and Butler from my wife’s side

Frazer Time Tree

The Time Tree is under Discover More:

Then there is a menu on the left:

Here is the Frazer Time Tree:

I didn’t take the tree all the way back. I thought that back to the time of Christ was probably far enough.

A Closer View

Here we can related more and focus in on the genealogical timeframe. I assume that between the years 1200 and 1400, the clans were forming as the top 6 BigY testers are five Frazers and on Frazier/Frasher. The Frazier tester has an American Flag as the genealogy is colonial and cannot be traced back – though it likely goes back to Ireland or Scotland. This branch of Frazers is called R-YP6489. Down from Frazier on Time Tree above is Dingman. Then there are Rick and my by cousin Paul. Then there are Rodney and Jonathan.

Here is how I have the North Roscommon Branch of BigY-tested Frazers:

Dingman on the left has the generic North Roscommon Frazer Haplogroup of R-FT421618 because no one else on his branch has tested.

This is how the ‘Block Tree” at FTDNA looks like:

Here I have Frazier also in the image. By comparing the two previous images, there are some interesting things:

  • Jonathan and Rodney share an average of 5 private branches. That would seem to indicate the potential for some branching below R-Y151390 which is the branch for Thomas Henry Frazer born 1836. There is also a spare SNP which is FT421607. This is available for branching between James Frazer born about 1720 and Archibald Frazer born about 1792.
  • Rick and Paul show an average of three Private Variants. These would be for branches below James Frazer born 1804. The Private Variants in this case and for Rodney and Jonathan are not as important as the genealogy is better known in these two lines where these Variants would be applicable.
  • Perhaps what seem unexplainable at this time is why R-Y85652 has two additional equivalents. That would imply that, if my tree is right, that Philip Frazer would have had two mutations. I don’t think that is very likely. As these are equivalent SNPs, the other potential, given the above tree would be that Philip had one mutation and James had two mutations. I posed the question to the BigY Facebook Page as to whether one man could have two variants or SNPs. Some thought that two mutations in one person was possible.
  • Dingman’s line has four Private Variants. They would have ocurred in the seven generations since Archibald Frazer born about 1743.

Hartley Time Tree

This is from my own family.

The man in red represents my father as he is the one my brother and I have as a common ancestor. The man with the blue cross is a Smith. We have a common ancestor around 500. It is not clear as to whether our ancestors were from Scotland or if his branch moved North. Going up a branch, it would seem that most of the people from this line were in the area of England. A few testers in the branch above had ancestors from Wales:

For reference, the blue circle three from the bottom of the above image is Smith.

Hartley and Mawdsley

The top tester above is a Mawdsley. There had been some question as to whether this person should have been a Hartley. If we go with this timing with a common ancestor between Hartley and Mawdsley of around 1100 AD/CE, then there would be no need to group the two as surnames were not common at that time for the average person. I like to quote FamilySearch on this topic:

The custom of applying a man’s by-name to all his children began in the late 12th century and spread slowly, with the manorial classes and the south of England leading the way. The first legal recognition of an hereditary surname is found in 1267; it was de Cantebrigg meaning ‘of Canterbury.’ By 1400 three-quarters of the population are reckoned to have borne hereditary family names, and the process was complete by about 1450 in England. Wales is an exception, in that although they had surnames they were patronymics (derived from the father’s first name) and thus changed each generation.

The Hartleys seem to fit this general statement as the first Hartley common ancestor (if FTDNA’s estimate is correct) is shown to be:

In general terms, the Hartley “Time Tree” shows two major branches of Hartleys. The first group branches off from R-A11134 and the second group branches off from R-A16717:

This branch is about 140 years more recent than R-A11134. The common ancestor of this branch was born, according to the tree in 1572. This date is about 90 years off from the to the actual genealogy. However, it could be that A16717 first ocurred in the grandfather or great-grandfather of Edward Hartley:

I call this the Quaker Branch of Hartleys. Edward Hartley from Little Marsden came to Pennslyvania and started the US branch of this Hartley family. There is another YDNA tester who is considering the BigY test who descends from the Thomas Line above. This is the line from the Hartley researcher I have corresponded with:

>Edward Hartley born 16 May 1666 married? Sarah Midgley
>Thomas Hartley b. 29 Dec. 1700 Solebury, Bucks County Pa. married Elizabeth Paxon
>Anthony Hartley b. 3 Dec. 1730 married Elizabeth Smith
>Jonathan Hartley b. 221 Octoner 1761 married Elizabeth Bunting
>David Bunting Hartley b. 28 Sep. 1786 married Phoebe Park
>Hiram J. Hartley b. 27 March 1824 NJ married Rebecca Church Lee
>Harry Lee Hartley b. 9 June 1864 married Emma Bell Leach
>Robert Hartley b. 17 June 1896 married Grace Maloney Roberts
>John Robert Hartley b. 4 August 1922 married Alice Buren Wrighy

One way to look at it, is if the Quaker Line is about 90 years too old on the tree, then perhaps we could move the other branches ahead 90 years. That wouldn’t work for my father’s branch as the timing on that is so close. Here is my tree with the John Robert line added:

Butler Time Tree

My wife is a Butler and there are a few Butlers who have taken the BigY test:

On this line, it doesn’t take much to get back to over 3,000 years ago. The Frazer lines were R1a, The Hartley lines were R1b. This line is in the I Haplogroup. Let’s start with the red Haplogroup I-FT241245. The two testers are my brother-in-law and father-in-law. In this case, my father-in-law is the common ancestor who has FY241245. The estimated date for that Haplogroup is 1907 or close enough to 1932 when my father-in-law was born.

The next person up on the tree is Butler researcher Peter:

This tree is showing that Peter and my in-law’s have a common ancestor born around 1557. In a Blog I wrote on 1 March 2021, I came up with these dates:

That’s a difference of about 125 years.

Next Branch Up

The next Branch going back in time includes a Whitson and a Batt.

The date that FTDNA gives for the common ancestor at I-BY50783 is 1449. This is interesting as it seems like only one SNP separates these two ancestors. That comes up with 108 years per SNP in this case. That is about what I was using in my guess – 100 years per SNP.  But I came up with a different result somehow.

Comparing the Three Time Trees

I am impressed with the regular branching on the Time Tree that the Frazers are on:

This is true especially starting after 900 CE with some sort of branching in every 200 year period following. This may be a result of the fact that many people with Scottish origins tend to have their YDNA tested. Another explanation would be lines that were successful and prospered.

The Hartley Time Tree does not have the same regularity in its branching:

Here we see no branching between around the years of 500 and 1100 CE. This could be due to fewer testers and/or lines that were not doing as well. Intermediary lines may have died out. This could be due to wars, famine, disease or simply famiilies have no males born.

The Butler Time Tree has even less branching:

There are two main branches that ocurred before 1,000 BCE. After that there was no addition branching until almost 1500 CE. That is about 2,500 years without branching. This line is probably severely undertested and/or went through very tough times. This is picked up somewhat at the SNP Tracker Website:

Notice that whole eras are skipped. Medieval and Iron Ages are missing.

Summary and Conclusions

  • FTDNA has a new helpful representation of a timeline for BigY testers. This is not the final say, but a helpful tool to compare with other estimates and with genealogy where available.
  • I looked at the trees that I have looked into. Those are Frazer, Hartley and Butler
  • I compared the three trees to each other. I noted that the Frazer Time Tree has the most consistent and regular branching going back in time. The Butler Time Tree has the sparsesest branching going back before the time of Christ.
  • As a result, I would ten to have the most faith in the Frazer timelines. There is good branching and somewhat of a check as we believe that common Rocscommon Frazer ancestor represented by R-FT521618 was born around 1690. I feel the Hartley Time Tree is slightly less reliable due to fewer branches but we have the genealogy for the common ancestor for the ‘Quaker Line’ born in 1666. In my opinion, the Butler Time Tree could be the least reliable of the three due to no ancient genealogy to check and the fact that branching in the line is sparse – especially before the genealogical timefrane.
  • FTDNA is continuing to calibrate its age estimates. One good example of how FTDNA’s Time Tree can be calibrated is with Edward Hartley born 1666. If this person is reported to FTDNA, they will be able to use that information to correct their current estimate of a common ancestor of 1572.