A while back I noticed this DNA match with a proposed Common Ancestor at Ancestry:
The DNA match is actually with my sister Heidi. Monica also matches my brother Jon by the same amount of cMs. The good thing about the match with Monica is that Heidi and Monica also have recognizable Share Matches:
These Shared DNA Matches also have common ancestors. Jane and Michael match on the Richard Frazer side:
Keith matches on the McMaster side:
As far as I know, Keith has no Frazer genealogy, however, going back there could be Frazer there somewhere. [However, see below for clarification.] Here is another depiction of some of the McMaster connections by genealogy and DNA:
What if the Margery noted at the top of the Chart was a Frazer?
A Theory Gone Wrong
Initially, I had thought that Ancestry’s Common Ancestor of Michael Frazer from the James Line of Frazers should make sense. That is because I believe that our family is more distantly related to the Michael Line through William McMaster and Margaret Frazer who I believe to be the daughter of Michael Frazer. However, my genealogy friend Joanna from Scotland says that the Common Ancestor connection as shown in Ancestry is not right.
Building a Tree for Monica
I’ll try to build out a tree for Monica and see if I come to the same conclusion as Joanna. However, before I do that, I see that my sister Lori also matches Monica at a slightly higher level – 20 cM. She also has a few more Shared DNA matches with Monica:
Rob has no tree and Lawrence’s tree is has only three private people. However, Lori’s Shared Matches with Rob shows this:
The Common Ancestor between Lori and BK shows this:
Interestingly, BK’s own tree deviates from what Ancestry has:
BK has a Jane Cole in his ancestry where Ancestry has Mary Patterson.
Also my note for MT:
This points out that in the ancestry of James Archibald McMaster, there is a McMaster connection. This means that despite what I said above, Keith does actually have Frazer ancestry:
The common ancestor between Keith and my family is Fanny McMaster, but Fanny’s mother was Margaret Frazer.
Back to Monica’s Genealogy
The confusion is that it would fit in well if Monica’s genealogy went back to Michael Frazer. I believe, but have not proven, that Michael Frazer is the father of Margaret Frazer above.
Monica’s tree only goes out two generation on her Frazer side. John Frazer was in the 1940 Census:
A hint is that John’s parents were both born in Schenectady according to that Census. William was a welder at General-Electric.
Here is Schenectady on the Mohawk River. I have panned out as there was also a Poughkeepsie Frazer family living there which caused the confusion.
Here is what findagrave has about William Frazer:
Interestingly findagrave has William born in Glasgow, Delaware. Here is William in 1930:
William was listed as an ‘electric welder’ in 1930. The rest of the family is listed on the previous page:
I don’t see any mention of Deleaware on this Census either. The father Joseph was listed as an invalid. In the 1910 Census, we see that Joseph’s mother was living with them in Saugherties, NY:
She immigrated about 1843?
Saugherties is a little closer to Poughkeepsie than Schenectady.
Joseph Frazer Born about 1862
In 1900, Joseph was a boatman living in Saugherties:
Here is the family in 1880:
This connects well as we last saw Matilda in the 1910 Census. If I read that Census correctly, she had 14 children! In 1880, the family lived in Glasco:
Unfortunately, I have not been doing a good job in identifying the spouses of Frazers:
So there is a Michael in the ancestry of Monica. Michael would be her 2nd great-grandfather.
Here is the 1850 Census for Saugherties:
Here is the next page:
These look to be daughters Margaret and Sarah, both born in New York.
The death record for Michael’s son William gives his mother’s last name as Young:
Findagrave gives a death date for Michael:
Who was Michael’s Father?
I could make some guesses, but first I would like to build out the tree for BK. Remember that Rob was a shared match between Lori and Monica. Then when I chose shared matches between Rob and Lori, I came up with BK. BK showed the same common ancestor at Ancestry:
However between Lori and Monica, I showed that the connection up to Michael Frazer born in 1764 was not right. Here is BK’s tree and point at which it diverges from the connection above:
BK has Myra Ackerman and Ancestry has Mary Patterson. Also not that Myra must have been 13 when she had Homer which doesn’t sound right. Also that Homer has a middle name of Patterson. My thought is that the DNA Matching between Lori, Monica and BK may triangulate. In addition, that means that the three family trees may also triangulate.
A Tree for BK
First, I’ll check to see if I already have a tree for BK. I don’t see any.
Here I have started my own tree for BK, I have indicated in the name of the tree that I am looking for Frazer/McMaster ancestry. Homer Patterson Cooper seems to be the best line to trace at this time. Here is Lois in Pittsburgh in 1920 with her family:
The Census further shows that Homer was born in Pennsylvania, but that both his parents were born in Michigan.
Homer P Cooper Born 1886
We see Homer’s middle name from his World War I Draft Registration:
Here is Homer in 1900:
From this, we learn that the family was in Michigan in 1884. Here is the previous page of the same Census:
The family was also briefly in Ohio. Michigan seems like the right path to follow as I know that some Frazer and McMaster ancestors ended up in Ontario and then went on to Michigan from there. BK also has some Ontario ancestors in his tree.
Joseph Cooper Born 1854 in Michigan
This certainly seems like the marriage record for Joseph:
This record indicates that Joseph was a widower at the time of his marriage in 1878. Here I see the problem. Joseph’s children were by a previous wife. Unfortunately, Ancestry added Myra as the mother to Joseph’s children. I went in and took out Myra as the mother. Here is my Ancestry Fact page on Joseph corrected:
The problem that I see is that it appears that Joseph’s children were born after the 1880 Census. Ancestry gives this hint for Joseph’s first marriage, though the details seem somewhat sketchy:
This would certainly explain the Patterson in Homer’s name. Here is a birth of Annie Maria Cooper in Arthur, Ontario:
Here is Arthur:
The connection to Joseph as blacksmith pretty much tells me I have the right person. The couple married in Mt. Forest which is not too far from Arthur:
Findagrave has more information on Joseph’s birth place:
It looks like we have identified Joseph’s neighborhood:
However, we are really interested in Mary Patterson.
Mary Patterson Born 1855 Ontario
With any luck, we should find Mary Patterson in the 1861 and 1871 Census for Ontario. Before we look there, I see Mary in 1880 in Cleveland, Ohio:
I note that both Joseph and Mary’s parents were born in Ireland. I believe that this is Mary in the 1861 Census for Arthur, Canada:
The Census is difficult to interpret. It appears that there was an extended Paterson family listed – perhpas headed up by John Patterson who was 76. I interpret this to say that Mary’s parents were Anderson and Catherine Patterson – though their last names appear as Patton (perhaps a mistake by the Census-taker? There is a bit of familiarity with Arthur, Canada, as I have looked there before for cionnections.
Patterson/Paton Mystery Solved?
I took to searching my old Blogs to find out what was going on here. I found some answers in a 2019 Blog that I wrote. Here is what I wrote in that Blog:
Bonnie’s Third Cousin ThruLInes
At this level three additional people are added:
I mentioned Beverly above. Then there are two more people from the Catherine Frazer Line. Bonnie’s tree has Catherine as Catherine Peyton Frazer, but Frazer researcher Joanna points out that the Peyton is not correct as that is from a different Catherine Frazer. Someone added a photo of Catherine Frazer’s daughter Rachel Patton from NO’s ancestry:
LO and NO are from two different lines as Catherine Frazer married a Pattison (aka Patterson) who died. She then married a Patton.
All this to say that Patterson and Paton are both right.
Who Was Catherine Frazer of Ontario?
So far, I have hesitated to add Catherine to my chart of DNA Matches:
This is due to the confusion of who her parents were. It appears that Catherine’s first daughter was Jane:
If Catherine Frazer’s mother was Catherine Knott and she wanted to name her after her mother, then she should have named her Catherine.
Summing Up So Far
- It appeared from Ancestry, that the common ancestor between Monica and my sister Heidi should be Michael Frazer born in 1764 in Ireland
- I looked at Monica’s tree and could get her back to a Micael Frazer who was born in 1810 in Ireland and moved to New York State
- My sister Lori also matches Monica. A shared match between Lori and Monica is Rob. Rob has a shared match with Lori who is BK
- I got BK’s tree back to Catherine Frazer. I have supposed in the past that this family goes back to Michael Frazer born in 1764 in Ireland.
ThruLines and McMaster/Frazer Charts
I like to write down these DNA matches in charts. These are similar to the Ancestry ThruLines. Here are Lori’s ThruLines going back to Michael Frazer:
Here is some more detail on the Archibald Line:
I have shown above that the connection between BK and Catherine is correct:
Also interesting to note is that assuming I have this right, Michael Frazer bon in 1810 could not be the son of Archibald Frazer born in 1801. That means that Michael born in 1810 could be the son of Michael Frazer born in 1764 or the son of an earlier son of Michael Frazer born in 1764, or from a different line.
These were not working earlier in the Blog, but now I see them. Joanna tells me that Bonnie does great work on her genealogy:
Here we do not see Edward Wynn Frazer which appears to be correct. How does this compare with my sister Lori’s ThruLines? Both ThruLines have:
- Margaret Frazer born 1790 (my family is under this line)
- Mary Frazer born 1798
- Archicbald Frazer born 1802
I think that Bonnie’s Patrick Henry Frazer born 1803 is the same as the Henry P Frazer born 1804 in Lori’s ThruLines. Lori is missing Fitzgerald Frazer in her ThruLines and I believe that Edward Wynn Frazer in Lori and Bonnie’s ThruLines is wrong.
My James Line Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart
Here is what I have in this area:
I need to add more under the Archibald Line.
Here is the new version:
Here is where I have Edward Wynn on my Chart:
The confusion appears to be that there are two Archibald Frazers. One was born in 1792, son of Archibald, and was of Tullynure. The other was born in 1801, son of Michael, and married Catherine Knott. They were first cousins.
Summary and Conclusions
- I never placed Monica on the Frazer Tree. She does not descend from Edward Wynn Frazer, but then Edward Wynn does not descend from Michael Frazer. It is likely that Monica descends from Michael Frazer born 1764 as she has an ancestor Michael Frazer born 1810
- In the process, of looking at Monica’s genealogy, I looked at the genealogy of BK. I added BK to the Michael Line in my Frazer DNA/Genealogy Chart as well as others from Bonnie’s ThruLines
- The fact that there were two Archibald Frazers who were first cousins and not born too far apart from each other continues to cause confusion. This genealogical confusion could potentially be sorted out by DNA.
- It would be interesting to compare the ThruLines of various descendants of the James Frazer Line.