The descendants of the James Line of the Frazers of North Roscommon, Ireland will be especially happy to hear about the latest DNA test-taker, Rod. He has also ordered the BigY test which is a big deal. But more about that in a later Blog when the results come in. This Blog will look at Rod’s autosomal DNA results.
Rod’s James Frazer Heritage
This view brings Rod up to Thomas Henry Frazer with his niece, 1st cousin and 2nd cousins.
Here is the bigger picture of the James Line:
There are about 47 people in the Frazer DNA Project. There are 28 in the Archibald line that are DNA tested and uploaded to Gedmatch. There are 19 in the James Line of the DNA Project. However, I don’t use all the matches. I don’t use the children if the parent has tested. Also I can’t compare Kim’s results with everyone else as she was only able to upload her test to Genesis. Genesis is for DNA tests that are not yet fully compatible with Gedmatch. That means that there are actually 16 in the James Line that I can fully compare their DNA results. Kim is ordering another test that can be uploaded to Gedmatch, so that will be a help.
I will try to look at Rodney’s Frazer-only DNA as this is a Frazer Project. Here is how Rodney matches other James Line DNA Test-takers in general:
Rod matches everyone except from Penny and Gary. Rod matches Prudence but below the normal threshold of 7 cM.
Rodney and Triangulation Groups (TGs)
Next, I will look at James Line Triangulation Groups or TGs that Rodney is in. This can help shore up genealogy in the James Line.
Rod’s first TG is in Chromosome one with Toni, Joanna, and Betty:
Here is what the numbers look like:
This is really two TGs, Rodney, Betty and Joanna have a TG focusing in on Thomas Henry Frazer. The addition of Toni to the TG suggests that the Thomas Henry Frazer TG is a Frazer TG and not a Palmer TG. The numbers work out well also. Rod shows a 64 cM to his first cousin Betty and smaller matches to his more distant cousins.
Here is a new TG with Rod, Betty and Clyde:
Madeline and Mary are matching on another line, so they are not in this TG.
Here is another TG with Rod, Madeline and Mary:
Rodney is doing a good job in tieing these families back to Archibald Frazer born about 1792.
Clyde, Betty and Rod.
I have already portrayed this combination above. Rod appears to be a missing link for some of these TGs. This TG brings up an interesting point. There is already a TG on the Archibald Line in this area. How is this possible? The Archibald TG has in it Emily, Bill, Paul, Gladys and Vivien. Vivien is in the Frazer Stinson Line. Emily, Bill, Paul and Gladys descend from a double Frazer couple: James and Violet. That means that the Archibald Line TG is most likely a Frazer TG. That means that the TG with Rod, Betty and Clyde likely goes back to the wife of Archibald born in 1792. Joanna has this person as Mary Anne on her Ancestry Tree. This may give a clue as to Mary Anne’s last name.
Looking for Mary Anne
I’ll take a little side track to see if we can find any DNA evidence of Mary Anne. I ran a list of those that match Clyde and Rod and came up with this:
The TG is near the beginning of the Chromosome. The large red match is Clyde’s daughter. 7, 8, and 9 are Betty, Rod, and Jonathan. Jonathan wasn’t picked up previously as this is a 6.1 cM match – below the normal threshold. #2 is Noel. That may be a hint, but she would be outside the existing TG. A similar search for those that match both Clyde and Betty gave similar results. Still, there may be some hints in those that match Clyde and Betty or Rod on other chromosomes. Just not as focused hints as we could have had here.
Chromosome 10 – Rod, Betty and Toni
This is a simpler version of the first TG I showed. This has the same effect. Rod and Betty most certainly match on Thomas Henry Frazer, but the TG is on Archibald Frazer born 1792.
This TG is just within the Thomas Henry Frazer group, so it could be Frazer or Palmer.
Here is a different combination:
This looks to be a long-range TG out at the 5th cousin level, unless someone can think of a closer common ancestor than James Frazer.
This is another James Line TG that overlaps with an Archibald Line TG. The Archibald Line TG has Gladys, Bill and Jane. This could be under the Richard Line or the Archibald/Stinson Line, so it gets complicated. I would still think that both TGs would not be TGs with a Frazer ancestor.
Here is another Thomas Henry Frazer TG:
I won’t be recording these TGs on my spreadsheet as they may be Frazer TGs. However, it is good that there enough people from the same great-grandfather to have these TGs as they produce other TGs with ancestors more distant than Thomas Henry Frazer.
Rodney’s DNA Summary
Rodney has added a lot to the TGs of the James Line. Most of his TGs linked families to Archibald Frazer born in 1792, One of the TGs that Rodney was in seemed to go all the way back to James Frazer from the early 1700’s. Rodney was in other TGs that went back to his great grandparents. However, these seem less important right now as I believe that there is no question of that relationship. Also, I did not emphasize those TGs as they may be Frazer or Palmer TGs. The Palmer TGs may be important for further research along those lines. Finally, I discussed what it means when a James Line TG overlaps with an Archibald TG. I felt in places where they overlap, that it would be unlikely that both TGs would be from a Frazer Line.
Two Frazer Brothers: William and Edward
Joanna has this fascinating photo on her family tree. William and Edward are two Frazers that have descendants that tested for DNA. William is in the back left and Edward is in the front right. Rodney’s grandfather is William.
Here is Joanna’s caption:
Edward FitzGerald Frazer in checked suit/dress, behind is William, Eliza centre, John at back and Robert beside his mother. (Boys wore dresses as toddlers)
Joanna has Edward born 1867. My guess for the date of this photo would be around the year 1870. Perhaps Eliza had her hands full with four boys.
Sometime before 1893, we see that William made his way to Spokane, Washington in the United States where he lived as a farmer.
William had married German-born Bertha Coblestine (or Koblestine) and had four children.
Here is the family in 1910:
Now William has five children. An interesting detail is that Bertha now is said to have been born in Wisconsin, but that she is German.
Here is a more grownup photo of William from Joanna’s Ancestry Tree:
William’s Petition for Naturalization from November 1909 is a good source of information.
Here is William’s signature:
William gives his birth date, place of birth, date of emigration and the ship that he was on:
William’s witnesses must have included an in-law:
Here is Drumkeerin – probable a little under 5 miles from the County Sligo border in Leitrim:
And here is Spokane. Two different worlds:
According to Joanna, William left his family. This seems to be a repeat of history as William’s father Thomas left his Irish family and moved to Owatonna, Minnesota. There he started another family which, according to Joanna, he also left.
Wililam’s younger brother Edward was born in either Drumkeeran or Manorhamilton about 10 miles to the North of where William was born.
Here is a photo of Edward, looking quite different from when he was wearing a dress as a young child:
According to Joanna, Edward’s life was quite different from his brother William. Edward graduated from the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland.
Too bad I didn’t know this when I last visited Dublin. I think that most people that visit Dublin would visit St. Stephen’s Green. Certainly researchers would stop by the National Library of Ireland which is not too far away. Here is a drawing of the College from 1830:
This is from the College website:
RCSI Roll of Licentiates
The RCSI Roll of Licentiates (RCSI/LIC) was signed by every graduate of the College once they had completed their studies, passed their exams and received their license. The student signed their full name and gave their place of residence. The variety of nationalities that attended the College in the 1800s is reflected to this day in the student body.
Here is Edward’s signature and place of residence from February 5, 1892:
At this time Edward would have been not quite 25 years old.
A year earlier, on February 21,1891, Edward was playing on the Irish National Rugby team. I’m amazed at people that are able to balance athletic achievements with medical studies.
Here is Edward in an 1895 Directory:
I wonder where Glosdromon is? It looks like Edward graduated about five years after another Edward Frazer relative.
Edward shows up in a Brighton Directory in 1899:
Here is Edward in a 1900 Medical Directory:
I get the sense of some but not all of the abbreviations.
In 1903, Edward shows up in a Brighton Phone Book.
Here, he went by Fitzgerald.
Edward has an extra medical qualification in 1903 dated 1901:
In 1905, Edward took a long trip from his home in Brighton to see his brother in Spokane, Washington. Now Edward is 38 and single. This is the part of the Ship Manifest where Edward said who he was visiting:
Now I assumed that he was going to William. He is going to see J.A.P. Frazer in Spokane. Who is this other Frazer? This is the older brother, John Archibald Peyton Frazer. According to Joanna, John wrote to Edward in 1900 about his poor health. One would assume that Doctor Edward was going out to check on his older brother John. Here is a photo of John Frazer from Joanna’s web page:
Interestingly, John had married his sister-in-law Amelia Cobensten. There are many ways to spell the last name. Here is John’s wife and his children on the 1900 Census for Spokane, Washington.
From the birthplaces of his children, we can see that the family moved from Minnesota to Washington around 1992. So this is turning into a tale of three brothers. Two were farmers and the youngest was a surgeon. Joanna also explains that it was the father Thomas Henry Frazer who got two of his sons to visit him. Joanna writes, “John and brother William arrive in America having been summoned by their father Thomas Henry Frazer.” I wonder if he wanted them to help out on his farm.
Back to Edward the Surgeon
Here is Edward in 1909:
Nine years after visiting Spokane, Edward marries Edith Seymour in London in 1914. Edward is now at 47 years old. Edward lives out his days in Brighton, having one son. He dies in 1943 at the age of 76.
Thoughts on the Frazer Brothers
I found the differences between these three brothers interesting. The obvious difference is the distance that they lived apart. In my own Frazer family, there was a similar rending of the family. Some Frazers stayed in Ireland and some came to the Boston, Massachusetts area. Another difference was in careers. Perhaps Edward’s delay of marriage gave him more time to pursue his medical studies and practice and his rugby.
I wonder how Edward could afford to go to a medical college in Dublin. It appears that he had no support from his father. Also Edward’s mother died when he was 15. Who did he live with after that? I find it interesting that Edward came to Spokane to visit his ailing brother John. Joanna mentions that William Frazer also went back to Ireland in 1891, but then came back to the US in 1893. That means that William would have been in Ireland at the time of Edward’s graduation from the College of Surgeions and at the time Edward was playing Rugby.
I had trouble finding Edward in the Census records. Perhaps he was traveling or on the move. However, Edward is well documented in directories and on cruises that he took.
As family historians, we get a chance to look at the cause and effect of the legacy that is passed down to us. In some cases we can be thankful for a positive legacy. However, we know that our ancestors were not perfect. In some ways we try to overcome negative legacies and turn things around so that our descendants will have something to be thankful for.