Playing with Gedmatch Tier 1 2024 Finding Common Ancestors

I have one of my many colds this winter, so I’ll take some time and sign up for Tier 1 of Gedmatch.

MRCA Search Tool

I don’t remember using this tool before. Before I used it, I had to make sure my Kit# was associated with my family tree. My famiy tree was uploaded in 2014, so it is quite old. I suppose that I should update my tree at Ancestry. I’ll look at what I got, and then update my gedcom at Gedmatch.

This is the first part of my list:

What I first noted was that the path to the primary kit (mine) was very long. I am seeing 6-13 genertaions. After watching a video on this utility, I see that the last column is important. It gives a score of how accurate it thinks the matching is out of 10. So the first on my list, Hannah Bartlett has a match of 2 out of 10 which is not good. John Spooner, further down, gets a 7 out of 10.

Our Path to John Spooner

Here is the path column:

I have not checked this Wilhelm Line, but it does not look unreasonable. I would like to see what the DNA match looks like, but I do not see a link to find this on this utility. I ran a one-to-one match between myself and my match with Spooner ancestry:

The match shows on Chromosome 11. To make sure this was a paternal match, I ran my paternal phased kit against this match and got the same results. Here is my Chromosome 5 mapped by DNA Painter:

I have an arrow where the possible Spooner DNA would be. I say possible because at 9 generations away, a lot could have happened. I think that SImone tested at 23andMe.  I am tempted to add this match just for fun. All the green matches are my second cousins. A few are first cousins once removed. Here is what I have for John Spooner on my tree:

Here I added in Spence on DNA Painter under SImone:

James Hartley was born in 1862, so the gap between him and John Spooner is over 200 years.

Updating My Tree at Gedmatch

First, I need to download my tree from Ancestry:

Before I got here, I had to choose Export Tree. When I chose download your Gedcom file, I ended up with two files as the Export already created one. First, I deleted my old Gedcom at Gedmatch. I’m not sure if this was the right way to do it.

When I uploaded the Gedcom, I got some errors based on not putting down the sex of the person:

There were other errors, but I just let the software do what it did.

Running a New MRCA Report from Gedmatch

This time I will use a minimum match score of 3 as recommended in a video I saw. This report is taking a while to run – perhaps because the gedcom I have now is larger. The report gave me 84 potential MRCA’s:

Here is a name on my list that catches my eye:

William Bradford gets a score of 8 which is very good.

However, I see an issue as there are two William Bradfords born 11 Mar 1654. I show to be 9th cousin once removed to this match. However, it appears that these two William Bradfords are the same which would move our connection closer by one generation. However, there is a disconnect. The death date of my William Bradford is very clear as he died in a carting accident in 1687. That means that he could not have had a daughter named Bethia born in 1692. Perhaps the Gedmatch scoring system is not the best.

Hiller MRCA?

Fifth on my list of 83 ancestors is a Hiller:

I recognize the match name (not shown here) from Ancestry. Here is the path:

I am a mere 7th cousin to this Hadaway on paper – and a DNA match. Here is where I match Hadaway:

My family seems to be related to other Hillers at Ancestry, so I think that this is a good match for me. I’ll add this person to DNA Painter:

My belief is that Hadaway (shown in purple) shares Hiller DNA on my Chromosome 2 with myself and my father’s first cousin Maury. This is likely shared with some of my other siblings.

Elizabeth Warren

The second match on my list is Elizabeth Warren:

This match is different as only the wife is mentioned in the match.

I assume that it came out this way as she descended from one of the Mayflower Pilgrims. To keep this consistent, I’ll enter this in DNA Painter under the husband who was Josiah Finney:

This is a fairly large match at Gedmatch:

Here as in other of my Hartley areas, this has connected my 1860’s common ancestor 2nd cousins, shown in green above, with my 1660’s cousin (seen in a bronze color).

So far, I have added to my colonial side on Chromosomes 2, 5 and 10:

The genealogy is fairly easy for these colonial matches. These matches are also helpful as it tell where my Hartley DNA from Lancashire, England is not.

Edward Richmond – Out 11 or 12 Generations

All this DNA has to come from somewhere. This is my first MRCA match:

I do show an Abigail Richmond in my tree. I also show that Edward Richmond married Abilgail Davis. I’m am liking Gedmatch’s MRCA utility as it is so easy to use. Next, I’ll map this match with Audrey:

However, this match with Audrey is showing a problem as there is an overlap with one of my Frazer relatives, Brenda. Further, when I have mapped my Chromosome 22, it has come out as being all Frazer, so this Hartley match cannot be right here. Let’s try to figure out what went wrong here.

When I look at Audrey’s tree, she has matches from County Sligo. My guess is that her match is on my Clarke side that I have not found many ancestors for. Or it could be on the Frazer side where I have some missing wives. Some of these names and places in Audrey’s tree have come up before, but I have not been able to place them within the genealogy:

 

In addition, some of my McMaster ancestors were from Dromore, County Sligo. That could be the best explanation for the connection. I have deleted Audrey from my Chromosome 22 as a Colonial American match, but she likely matches my McMaster ancestry. Interestingly, my fourth potential MRCA is with Dave. He matches on Chromosome 22 also. He must be related to Audrey.

An Almy Connection?

Matches 6 and 7 on my list have this connection:

 

I don’t have the inclination to check out the genealogy here. The DNA match is here:

I already have Debra in that spot. I had our conection on the Hatch side. From a Blog I wrote, I see that there was also a Palmer connection in Rhode Island. This connection is certainly on the Rhode Island side. Actually Debra is match #7, so is the same person. Match #6 must be her son.

I’ll just change the ancestors to Almy at DNA Painter. At 1601, that would likely be my oldest painted DNA and perhaps the most suspect for that reason!

Resolved White 1615

This match goes back to the Pilgrims.

First, I’ll check the DNA:

This is Chromosome 19 which is Frazer territory for me:

My Frazer ancestry is Irish, so clearly not Pilgrim material. It is possible that I have this Pilgrim connection, but not based on the shared DNA.

Benjamin Bartlett with a Score of 6

I’ll be sure to check the DNA match:

The match is out on the right side of the paternal copy of my Chromosome 7:

I have a lot of Frazer DNA on that Chromosome, but room for some Hartley on the right side.

I don’t show Ichabod Bartlett in my tree, but my tree may be incomplete. A book I have shows that Benjamin Bartlett had three wives and 6 children. The first three children were born from Sarah Brewster (including Rebecca Bartlett). The first wife apparently had no children. The last three children including Ichabod may have been from a third wife named Sisilla.

I’ll add Blair and Bartlett in pink to my DNA Painter profile:

It is not a large match and I could not put two ancestors down as I am only sure of the Bartlett ancestry.

One More? Joseph Sylvester

Joseph gets a rating of 5, but that is just on the genealogy match. I have checked the DNA to confirm that the match is on my Hartley side.

Joseph is on the Pilgrim side, born in Plymouth Colony. I do see an Amos on my genealogy tree, so that is good. I’ll add this match into DNA Painter.

Here i have added a small clump of DNA to my profile which I have said is either from Joseph Sylvester or Mary Barstow.

Summary and Conclusions

  • This is an easy tool to use
  • I needed to check my DNA matches to make sure that they were in the right area and right side – in this case paternal side.
  • I have a lot of colonial genealogy. Many others likely do too, so the bias is to match on those genealogies.
  • I did not go through the whole list, but I would guess that at least half of the matches would not pan out due to genealogy, DNA matches in the wrong area or other problems.
  • It is easier to disprove that a DNA match could not go with the shared genealogy than to prove that it does.

 

 

 

A New MacMaster DNA Match at Gedmatch with Clarke and Spratt Ancestry

I have a new MacMaster DNA match at Gedmatch. However, this match is also at Ancestry DNA and MyHeritage. Here is what Ancestry shows:

We are third cousins, but we are also related on the McMaster side:

As shown above, Ron and I are fourth cousins once removed on the McMaster side. This makes sorting out the DNA difficult. However, I am more interested in the Clarke connection as I have a lot of missing information on my Clarek and Spratt ancestry.

MacMaster DNA

I am really interested in the Clarke DNA. However, it would seem that anyone that I have a known Clarke DNA match with could also have McMaster DNA.  Here is where I match this MacMaster according to Gedmatch:

I had previously used DNA Painter to show where this match was Here is the paternal side of my Chromosome 4:

The green and yellow matches are on my Hartley side. However, the blue DNA should represent either Thomas Clarke or Jane Spratt:

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However, there is a more distant amount of McMaster in there because Ron’s great-grandmother Celia Clarke married Edward McMaster:

This shows that Ron is my 4th cousinn once removed and Stephen is my 5th cousin on the McMaster side. Still, the chances are that matches with MacMaster represent Clarke or Spratt more than McMaster.

More Clues from Ancestry

I feel like Ancestry has the most matches, so it is a good place to look for clues. As the McMaster who is the subject of this Blog is my largest match, I’ll start with him at Ancestry. It would make sense to try to sort out those matches between Spratt and Clarke as those are the two most recent ancestors that this McMaster and I have in common.

Clarke or Spratt?

I should have shared matches with my good MacMaster match that are either Clark or Spratt. By using a spreadsheet, I can separate those matches by color. This is a variation of the Leeds Method:

I’m trying to come up with a spreadsheet that will work well. I’ll use a blue color for Clarke and a different one for Spratt.

I’ll start with Lori and Nina:

Nina appears to be a Spratt and is a shared match with my MacMaster match:

My Leeds Chart is a little compicated as it includes 5 siblings. My assumptions are:

  • shared matches between my siblings and me and Nina will be on the Spratt side
  • Spratt is not related to Clarke
  • Clarke is related to McMaster so those shared matches could have McMaster also
  • Ideally, there should be a group of Clarke DNA matches that match me and each other and a group of Spratt DNA matches that match me and my siblings and each other.

My Shared Matches with Nina

Here are a summary of my findings:

I decided to go with just my matches for now as it was too messy having all the siblings there. There were similarities in the trees when the trees were givien. Note that I have not yet identified any Clarke matches.

I decided to add the strength of the match in cm:

Looking for the Clarke Side

I don’t see any matches that are obviously Clarke. That means that I need to find matches that are not in common with the ‘in common’ matches to Nina and the above Spratt matches.

I’ll start with Cheryl. She is a shared match with MacMaster and matches me. Here shared matches do not seem to coincide with Nina’s, so I will make an assumption that she matches me on the Clarke side. Unfortunately, she does not have a tree at Ancestry.

Here is what I am guessing is the Clarke side:

The problem is that none of the DNA matches that have trees have Clarkes in them. The common name in the trees that match the blue side appears to be Lougheed or Loughead.

Here is the tree I have for my great-grandmother:

My knowledge of this branch of the family does not go back very far. Here my assumption based on family trees is that the Spratt side is represented by my orange matches and Clarke by the blue. But where would Lougheed fit in? Assuming that Whitesides is right, that would leave the mother of John Clarke or the mother of Catherine Whitesides.

A Blue Side DNA Match at 23andMe

I made a note at Ancestry that my blue side match, L.S., also tested at 23andMe. I hope the match is still there. That match had this person in his tree:

Unfortunately, I cannot get into 23andMe. The Company instituted extra security on their website and it is creating a problem for me to get to that site.

More Lougheads

Here is Ballybrennan::

This location is interesting to me as Ballybrennan is South of Collaney which is the area that my Clarkes were from and West of Kilmactranny where my Frazers were from.  However, Frazers should not be related as the connection between Frazer and Clarke was in Boston, Massachusetts.

Cheryl has many what I call blue matches.

Here I have also added some shared matches from D.E. The last match is interesting as there is a connection with Hugh Lougheed from 1750. He appears to be the same Hugh said to be born 1752. Here is what jreaton’s tree shows:

From the trees and the DNA matches, it is likely that this Hugh Lougheed could be an ancestor of mine, but I cannot tell where the connection is. It is possible that this Hugh had another daughter who married and stayed in Ireland.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Based on my most recent common ancestors with MacMaster, I should have matches on the Clarke side and the Spratt side
  • I found DNA matches with a group of people who have Spratt ancestry
  • I found another group of DNA matches who do not match the Spratt matches but have Lougheed in their genealogy.
  • I found a Lougheed side match that was also at 23andMe
  • It would be interesting to find out which chromosomes are Lougheed and which are Spratt.

Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree and ThruLines

I have been building DNA/Genealogy Trees for my ancestors that have ThruLines that i have verified. On my Hartley side, I have looked at:

  • Hartley
  • Hathaway
  • Snell
  • Parker
  • Hatch
  • Howorth
  • Churchill
  • Cowen

I do not think that I have looked at Luther.

My Luther Genealogy

My great-grandmother Annie Snell was the daughter of a Bradford and a Snell. Luther is on the Snell side. Benjamin Luther and Rebecca Trafton were my 5th great-grandparents. They lived in Dighton, Massachusetts.

Luther ThruLines

I’ll start with my own:

ThurLines think that I match up with Lynn via Lynn’s ancestor Polly Luther. Polly is in white which means that she is already in my Tree. However, it seems as Polly may have married a Simmons:

A few of my siblings have the same ThruLine with Lynn.

Joyce’s Luther ThruLines

Because my father’s cousin Joyce is a generation back, she should have more Luther ThruLines and she does:

Joyce even has a ThruLine going back a generation:

I checked on my father’s other 1st cousin Maury’s ThruLines, but he doesn’t show any on the Luther side.

Joyce and DVanderzell

I’ll start on the oldest ThruLine. DVanderzell’s Tree matches the ThruLine conclusions:

The tree above has Susannah and the ThruLine has Sukey which I take to be the same person.

I’ll start a quick tree to check DVanderzell’s Tree. Winston was born in Taunton, MA. From Winston’s birth record, his father was from Dighton, MA:

The family soon moved to Montclair, NJ:

Here is the previous generation in Dighton, MA:

So far, the tree is checking out:

I am now looking for Jonathan Hathaway:

The family was in Dighton in 1850:

Jonathan to Susannah Sukey Talbot

From Jonathan’s death record, we see his mother is Susan:

At this point, I may want to attack the question from both ends. By that, I mean from the Jonathan end as well as the Sarah Luther side. I do have that Sarah married in 1773. I could go out on a limb and guess that she may have been born around 1753.

One reference to Susannah had this:

Here is the record for Sukey Talbot:

So there are two Jonathan Hathaways.

Sukey Talbot to Sarah Luther

The female connections are more difficult due to the name changes. I have this record from Dighton:

That means that all I am missing is a birth record for Susannah or Sukey Talbot. Here is the missing link:

A First Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree

Here Joyce and DVanerzell show as 6th cousins which agrees with the Ancestry ThruLines.

Joyce and Pat (Sally Luther Line)

Pat has a good tree, but the line diverges at Polly Sartwell:

Pat has her mother as Martha Goodenough. In addition, in my own tree, I have that Sally Luther married James Spooner. I am tempted to pull the plug on Pat for now.

Joyce and RWU12 (Gardner Luther)

RW’s tree diverges before Gardner Luther II:

Here are the Dighton records:

I am trying to figure out how to interpret this. It appears that Gardner Luther in my tree married a Nancy Horton in 1803. He then dies in 1825. Then there is a second Gardner Luther in Dighton. He dies in 1809. I am guessing that he is the son of the other Gardner and that this Gardner was born in 1807 and died in 1809. Then there appears to be a question as to whether the first Gardner Luther married a Nancy Horton or a Nancy Kelton.

I am now cutting corners to save time:

This Gardner is interesting because his parents were Gardner and Nancy Luther. He dies in 1875 on November 6, so would be born around 1809. Also this:

All this leads to the possibility that the ThruLine could be right.

I’ll start a quick tree for RW:

RW’s mother’s birth record was amended, so is not yet available. I’ll have to assume that RW knew who his grandparents were. Here is RW’s 15 year old grandfather in 1900 in Swansea:

At this point, I am checking into Elizabeth from the above Census.

Here is a 1907 North Attleborough Marriage record for William giving his mother’s name as Elizabeth Willmarth:

Here is a good hint. In 1880, Elizabeth was listed as the granddaughter of a Luther:

I got this 1906 Swansea marriage from RW’s tree:

I’ll just take it on face value. My tree is following RW’s so far:

Here is Mary’s marriage record:

Turns out Clement was quite a bit older than Mary and this was her second marriage.

Here two Luthers married.

Here is the family in 1850 in Swansea:

This could be Mary’s first marriage:

Here is the family in 1855:

This proves that the marriage between Mary Luther and Josiah Tucker above was correct.

Gardner dies in 1886 in Swansea and gives the names of Gardner and Mary Luther for his parents who are both said to have been born in Swansea:

Now we have come full circle, however, I had Gardner Sr. marrying a Nancy, so the death record could be wrong?

I have shown a connection from this Gardner to the elder Gardner and that the younger Gardner lived in Swansea most of his life.

Updating the Luther Tree

I gave the chart some color so it wouldn’t just be boring gray. RWU shows as a 5th cousin once removed to Joyce. This is also what the ThruLine suggested, so it checks out. The only thing I didn’t check into was who was the Charlotte Luther who married Gardner Luther?

Joyce and Lynn (Polly Luther Line)

Now we are back to Lynn:

The maternal side of Lynn’s tree agrees with the ThruLine – going back to our common ancestors:

All I need to do now is to build a parallel tree to Lynn’s to see if it checks out. This tree is starting out in Arkansas. I am having a little trouble finding Leatrice. I would think that she would be easy to find, but sometimes with a different name, the name is miss-spelled. Here is the 1930 Census:

I found this in the hints on the ThruLines. Leatrice is here transcribed as Leatrei. In addition, the last name is transcribed as Tolbert. The father was a school instructor and his family was from Mississippi.

Here is Marcus in 1900 in Mississippi:

Marcus’ father was a farmer (I don’t show but he was on the previous page). His father was from Massachusetts. Bingo.

 

The transcriber gives the father’s first name as Allen which I can now see. The mother is Telisia or something similar. I have seen that name before.

The Census records help me quickly build a parallel tree for Lynn:

Here is Allen with his family in 1850:

I don’t know much about Mississippi, but Marshall County where they lived is not too far from Memphis:

I am guessing Ephraim moved South before marrying as his wife was from Tennessee.

Talbot to Luther?

We are trying to figure out if Ephraim’s mother was Polly Luther. This record from Dighton is helpful:

Next, I just have to figure out if Marcy is the same as Polly. She is:

I assume that I got the name Polly from a genealogy book. It is confusing and I should put her name back to Mary. My understandiing is that Molly is a nickname for Mary which sometimes was changed to Polly.

Last Tree Update – for Now

Here is the new and improved Luther Tree:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Out of the 4 Luther Lines I looked into, I was able to make connections on three
  • The Luther Line has a rich heritage and history in the part of Massachusetts around Swansea and Dighton.
  • This is my first Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree and verifies the Ancestry ThruLines
  • Using DNA plus genealogy is a powerful tool in creating surname trees.

 

 

My Cowen/Cowing ThruLines

My Massachusetts genealogy has two sides. One side is my Pilgrim ancestors and the other side is my non-Pilgrim ancestors:

My great-grandmother Annie Louisa Snell was the source of my Massachusetts heritage. Her maternal side was the non-pilgrim ancestry and the bottom side or maternal side of the tree above was the Pilgrim ancestry lead off my Harvey Bradford.

DNA/Genealogy Trees

Looking through my files I see these Trees:

  • Snell
  • Parker
  • Hatch
  • Bradford
  • Hathaway

What I don’t see for trees:

  • Luther
  • Churchill
  • Cowing

I would like to update my old trees and add trees where necessary. The last time I started looking at this subject, I looked at Hathaway and realized I had a lot of people in that tree and more to add. This time, I would like to look at Luther, Churchill and Cowing.

Cowing

I know this name from my home town as Cowen. However, the more historical spelling is Cowing or Cowin. I don’t recall writing about any ThruLines for Cowing. Here are some from Joyce, my father’s first cousin:

Joyce and my family are under Experience Cowing. Joyce has no additional ThruLines under Israel Cowing, but she has three ThruLines through Jonathan and Patience Cowing. First, I’ll loo at Christine:

This has happened before. When I choose Kristine from the ThruLines and then check her common ancestors, I come out with a different line. I am curious to see if the Cowen connection is correct.

Here is Kristen’s paternal side from her own tree:

Here is the family in Middleborough, MA in 1930:

Philip was a chauffer for the Town. Philip was born in Westport, but his birth record shows that his father was born in Mattapoisett:

Here is Philip and his father Sanford and family in Westport, MA in 1900:

Sandford was a farmer.

Here is my tree for Kristine:

Mattapoisett became a Town in 1857, the year before Sanford was born. I just need to show that the Ruth above was Ruth Cowen.

Here is the 1865 Census for Mattapoisett:

Findagrave shows this for Ruth:

My tree now suggests that Kristine does go back to Seth Cowen:

My understanding is that Kristine should be a 5th cousin to Joyce. So that is a little closer than the 5th cousin once removed on the Hathaway side. The DNA match would be either from the Cowen side or the Hathaway side. There is no easy way of knowing.

A First Cowen DNA/Genealogy Tree

That line was relatively easy to trace as the family stayed fairly local.

Helen and Joyce

The next family is fun because it involves a genealogy friend, Helen, who lives down the street from me:

If I can show that Helen matches  Joyce by DNA, it gives creedence to our genealogical research. I trust Helen’s research, so feel no need to evaluate it. Here is her tree:

Helen’s line goes to Seth Cowing Hiller, then to Patience Cowing and then to our most recents common ancestors, Seth Cowing and Penelope Crapo.

I’ll add Frances and Helen to the Tree:

A few interesting things about this tree:

  • These three lines represent three Cowing children born within about 4 years
  • These families mostly stayed in the same part of Massachusetts for about 300 years and if you look at the Mayflower ancestors, that would have our families here for 400 years, so we have deep roots in this part of SE Massachusetts.

Jon and Shaun

My sister Heidi and I have no Cowing ThruLines from Seth Cowing, but my brother Jon has one:

Shaun has a modest tree, but has more on his maternal side. I don’t have a tree for Shaun, so I will create one. Shaun does show that his maternal great-grandfather was from New Bedford:

This obituary ties Stacey Smith to Francis Swift:

Francis was born in Utah and wed in Wyoming:

Here is the 1930 Census for Salt Lake City:

Here is my tree so far:

I forgot to mention, that when I look at the specific match for Jon and Shaun, a Hathaway connection shows up. It is likely that Jon and Shaun are connected on both lines:

This comes up now because there is a Hathaway in Shaun’s Line.

The marriage record for Francis and Amanda has a lot of information:

This has Francis born in Sandwich rather than New Bedford. It also has their parents’ names.  Here is a tree update:

Where Hattaway is likely a transcription error for Hathaway.

Here is the book transcription of the marriage of Nathan Swift and Pamelia Cowing:

And here is her birth record:

So it is pretty clear where this is going as Israel is the son of Seth Cowing.

Here I have the connection between my brother Jon and Shaun:

I did not check out the Hathaway connection, but that one is likely also. That means, that it is unclear as to whether the actual DNA that Jon and Shaun share are from the Hathaway side or Cowing side.

Lori and Gretchen

I see that my sister Lori has a potential Cowing connection with Gretchen:

The good news is that I already have Matthew Hiller in my tree, so I just need to get Gretchen back to Matthew instead of to the colonial Seth Cowing. I am having trouble finding Seth from the information that Gretchen has:

Gretchen has that Seth died in New York City. I found this draft card:

The only problem is that the tree I got this from has Seth’s wife as Grace Appel:

Gretchen’s tree suggests a Webster as the wife.

Looking at Helen’s ThruLines

I thought of another way to substantiate Gretchen. I have access to Helen’s ThruLines:

Clearly, Gretchen has a large match to Helen and is related. Here is Helen’s tree:

The other three that show as children of Matthew Hiller could not be from Beuretta Webster Hammon if Helen’s tree is right as Beuretta dies in 1880.

Here is the family in 1900:

Charles is apparently out of the house, but George, David and Jennie from Helen’s ThruLines are there. This seems to be a good enough of a connection for me.

I’ll add Gretchen to the tree:

Gretchen and my brother Jon are 5th cousins once removed.

My sister Lori also matches Gretchen. Also my sister Sharon matches Shaun.

Cousin Maury’s ThruLines

My father’s cousin Maury has also tested at Ancestry. He has these ThruLines to Cowing:

Maury and my family are under Experience Cowing. The Hiller family is under Patience Cowing. Here are Maury’s ThruLines on the Hiller side:

Maury and P.S.

Since I last wrote, I see another ThruLine for Maury. It is on a different Cowing Line that I would like to investigate:

Mary is the oldest child of Seth Cowing on the ThruLines. Mary is on my tree. She must have married Philipp Briggs:

We are trying to go from the Wing back to the Nye family:

Here is Addie’s birth record from 1864 in Sandwich:

Addie’s father, George B. was a butcher.

Here is the family in 1870:

Next, I just need to find George’s mother. George’s death record gives his mother’s name and birthplace:

Here the Cowing Tree is filling out:

Co

This is not as far as I could go, but it is as far as I would like to go for now.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able, with not too much difficulty, to pretty good Cowing DNA/Genealogy Tree thanks to my father’s cousins Joyce and Maury and my brother Jon
  • In some cases the common ancestors also came up as Hathaway. That is probably partly because my ancestor Experience Cowing married Joseph Hathaway. However, the matches would have had to have had Hathaways in their ancestry also
  • In other cases where Hathawy did not show up in the ThruLine matches, I assume that Hathaway ancestry was not there in the DNA match – at least during the time period that we are looking at.
  • I am ready to move on to more DNA/Genealogy Trees

 

 

My Emmet ThruLines

I am interested in looking into Emmet ThruLines. Just for fun, to see what comes of it.

Emmet Genealogy

This is from my Ancestry Tree:

My second great-grandmother Ann Emmet was born in 1829 in Bacup, Lancashire.

Emmet ThruLines

Here is what my father’s cousin Joyce has going back to Edmund Emmet born 1727:

My father’s cousin Maury has a similar set of ThruLines with one additional person added:

I was excited to look into this because I do not believe that I have made an Emmet DNA/Genealogy Chart yet. Also in looking into this Blog, I saw an interesting tree that appeared to have great research.

My Family’s ThruLines to Edmund Emmet Bory 1727

I don’t have any, but my sister Heidi does:

Heidi adds the match Julia.

My brother Jon has money 40.

My sisters Lori and Sharon have no ThruLines at this level like me.

Maury and Banker

I’ll go with Banker’s Tree as she has as good one:

Her tree goes back to Alice Emmett. I also see the Pilling name which pops up a lot.

This death certificate for Rowland gives his parents’ names:

Here is the family in 1881:

I think this is Shawclough:

We next need to find Joseph’s mother. According to the 1861 Census, Joseph’s mother was Alice, born in Haslingdon:

Here is the marriage record which mentions Alice Emmett:

The Census records have Alice from Haslingdon:

The Alice Emmet to Richard Emmet Connection

This connection is not as clear to me. The Trees at Ancestry have the connection, but they do not say how they got there:

1811 was before Civil Registration and apparently there have been no records found. That is when I submit that DNA evidence can add to the evidence that this is the correct Line.

Here is the summary of Richard Emmet from the Smith Tree at Ancestry. That is the tree that I looked at and found to be very well researched:

Edit: Through subsequent conversations with David, the creator of the Tree above, he tells me that there is a will that connects

A Geographical Check

If Richard and my ancestor Edmund Emmet were brothers, they would have had to have lived in the same area. Sounds basic. Here is Richard’s baptismal record, looking quite old:

This baptism happened at Goodshaw, St. Mary and All Saints. Here is Goodshaw:

The Tree above has Richard from Lumb or Water and born in 1767. I have that my ancestor Edmund Emmet was born in 1759 in High Edge Goodshaw. Here is the baptismal record:

Due to a search on Google, I see that this should be Hugh Edge.

I don’t know how accurate these house renditions are, but they are interesting. Perhaps the Emmets lived in one of these houses around 1767. As Edmund and Richard were baptized at the same Church and had the same parents, I assume that they were brothers.

Emmet DNA/Genealogy Map

Turns out I already had Richard in my Ancestry Tree:

Here is my tree:

This is not actually perfect as Banker was a match to Maury, my father’s first cousin. This should more accurately display the relationships:

Now that the line from Banker to Richard seems likely, the other lines should follow. As the Stansfield tree seems well documented, I will add Anne and money40:

Keep in mind that not all the people on my side of the tree match all the people on the Richard Emmet side of the tree, but a lot do.

Heidi and Julia

My sister Heidi has a ThruLine with Julia that I have not evaluated:

Julia has a huge family tree with over 33,000 people in it. Of interest to me are Julia’s DNA designations on her tree:

That tells me that Julia is perhaps thinking like me in using DNA as evidence to support her family tree. I do see Betty Emmet in the records:

Here is Loveclough:

I also caught Lower Hugh Edge at the bottom right of the map. Based on this information, I am tempted to not bother verifying Julia’s tree and just accept it.

Here my Emmet DNA/Genealogy Tree appears to be finalized for now:

Bonus on Isaac Emmet

From mucking around the tree which I mentioned above that David built, I found a Willl for Isaac Emmet (or Emmett):

Isaac was my third great-grandfather. I am not sure that I was aware of this document before. Or if I was, I don’t recall it. This is certainly Isaac, as he was from Stubby Lee.

Here is the Mary Stott mentioned in the Will:

Mary was the one taking care of the rest of the family in 1851 when the father was a servant at Stubbylee Hall. I wrote a Blog about this in 2018.

Although Mary is shown as the head, I note that the whole household was working. My second great-grandmother Ann must have been second in command.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I looked at DNA matches to two of my father’s cousins on their Emmet ThruLines
  • I checked one line going back to Richard Emmet that seemed to be likely based on location and the same parents.
  • That connection lead to common ancestors of Edmund Emmet born 1727 and his wife Mary Omerod
  • The first connectionwas on a Stansfield Line which seemed well documented. There were two other Stansfield Line DNA matches which I added to an Emmet DNA/Genealogy Tree
  • I then added a line which went back to a different daugther of Richard Emmet born 1767. This daughter was better documented than the daughter that produced the Stansfield Line.
  • These four DNA matches as well as other Ancestry Trees support the Emmet genealogy I have done previously.

 

 

Updating Philadelphia Baker and Surrick ThruLines

In the past, I have looked at some of my Baker ThruLines on my mother’s side. This is my summary on a Baker DNA/Genealogy Chart that I made:

This Chart goes back to some of my 4th cousins on average. However, ThruLines go back to 6th cousins. That means that this chart is undersized.

Here are my ThruLines going back one more generation to an earlier Conrad Baker:

I already have a tree for Ruth’s maternal side:

Ancestry suggests Conrad Baker and Mary Surrick as the parents of Sophia Baker.  I would have to assume that they are correct. All indications are that the tree is correct, though there are few original sources.

Here is a source from the Daughters of the American Revolution:

Here is the extra generation added to my Baker Tree:

Based on this Ancestry Tree, Conrad had many children:

My ancestor was the first wife Mary Surrick who apparently died before 1796. That means that most of the children must have been through Susanne Fraley. Also, according to these trees, this Conrad was bron in New York.

This tree shows that Sophie Baker Andress had quite a few childre also:

This increases the chance of having a DNA match.

Going Back Before Baker to Surrick

I notice that my mother has some Surrick ThruLines:

Why not take a look at some of these matches?

ldclouser has a good tree. Here is her Druck Line going back to Surrick:

Surrick seems to be an unusual surname:

According to Ancestry, there were 6 Surrick families living in Pennsylvania in 1840 and they were found nowhere else in the US. However, the good news it it appears that could narrow down the genealogy.

My own tree does not go back to Philip Surrick, so this may be a good time to amend my tree:

Checking LD’s Tree

One good thing about a rare surname is that the connection is more likely to be real to that surname between two families. Here is Mahlon’s family in 1930.

Here is Bart, to the West of Philadelphia in Lancaster County:

At this point, I should be following Kathryn’s Line. The death certificate and marriage record for Mason Druck has his wife as Katherine or Catherine Smeltzer. Here is a child’s birth certificate:

Here is Catharine in Chanceford, PA in 1900:

Catharine’s father was a cigar manager and her mother was a cigar maker. In the Census, her mother appears to be Lucy, but this obituary has her mother as:

In 1860 Philadelphia, 19th Ward, I find this record:

Here is Catherine who was supposed to be born in 1864 according to findagrave was born probably in 1859.

This Tree at Ancestry for John Smeltzer shows that he had two wives:

The first died in 1893.

This is my tree so far:

According to ThruLines, I am alsmost there. I see a George Surrick in 1850:

He is living in the Richmond Districk of Philadelphia. His father appears to be Philip Surrick. The ThruLines wanted to show Georges father as George and his grandfather as Philip. However, I see what happened. There was more than one George Surrick in Philadelphia. The above was a different, George W Surrick:

He was a ropemaker like his father and he married Anna.

Here is the George that I am interested in:

He is living in Chanceford with the husband of his late daughter Catharine. I don’t agree with the birth date here. I think it should be around 1835.

Here is some more information on George:

This tells us that George was in the Civil War.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to expand my Baker DNA/Genealogy Tree by looking at ThruLines
  • The earliest ancestors on that tree are Conrad Baker born 1764 and his wife Mary Surrick
  • I had thought that I would be able to create a Surrick DNA/Genealogy Tree based on ThruLines, but I was unable to figure out a good connection between Surrick descendants and basically, my mom.
  • I may try again at some point. This would involve extending my known tree out to the parents of Mary Surrick.

 

Tracing My Children’s French Canadian DNA at Ancestry

I have noticed lately a lot of common ancestors for my two children. These are French Canadian ancestors usually with the name dit Grandmaisson.

The Genealogy

The genealogy for my children Heather and JJ goes from Morrow to Tacy to Barbary to Barbary dit Grandmaison. My understanding is that a dit name is like a nickname or further identifier for a surname. In this case, it appears that Barbary was the original name, but Grandmaison was the dit name.

Starting with Heather

Heather seems to have more of the French Canadian matches. Here is one of Heather’s first French Canadian ThruLines:

It was a genealogical breakthrough when I figured out that the Tacy name was originally Tessier.

The best way to check the connection between JP and Heather is to recreate a tree for JP. JP’s Tree at Ancestry does have a Tessier:

Almina show as Albina in the 1920 Census for Central Falls, RI:

My Tree for JP at Ancestry has a lot of suggestions:

This appears to be Valentine in 1871 in Montreal:

The Marriage record for Valentine is on two different pages:

I can make out that Valentine’s father was Pierre. Her mother was something like Edessa Cyr? That fits in with the Ancestry hints.  The ThruLines have Pierre as Tessier dit Lavigne. Here is how my tree looks now:

Here is Pierre in 1891:

I found this 1849 Marriage record from someone else’s tree at Ancestry:

Here, Pierre’s father is another Pierre.

It looks like JP’s tree does match up with Heather’s:

A Tessier DNA/Genealogy Tree

Heather and JJ’s ThruLines

Here is what I see when I look at Heather’s ThruLines for Joseph Tessier:

 

This shows that there are a total of 8 DNA matches under the descendants of Michel Pierre who I call Pierre Tessier and Ancestry has as dit Lavigne.

 

Here is what JJ has:

This shows that JJ has fewer matches on the Tessier Line.

Heather and Erica

This shows going up to Morrow but he married Nellie Tacy who was originally a Tessier. It may be difficult to go all the way to Erica as her mother is shown as private. I have Nellie Morrow in my tree, but no further information:

Nellie appears to have also gone by Helen and married Thomas Glancy. It appears that there must be a connection between Heather and Erica:

Heather’s Grandmaison ThruLines

JJ’s Grandmaison ThruLines

Again, JJ has fewer:

Here again, we see the issue where it appears that there should only be one Marguerite Barbary, but they show as two.

JJ and Ransom

Heather and JJ both match Ransom:

Ransom also has a good tree:

However, Ransom’s tree goes from Vilandre to Franche and ThruLines goes from Vilancre to Salisbury.

Here is Theona and family in Providence in 1930:

Here is Charles’ baptismal record:

Ancestry has Theona incorrectly transcribed as Therese. Her last name is Philandry which is different from Ransom’s tree showing Vilandre. My tree so far:

Ancestry thinks Theona’s mother is Lafranboise. My thinking is that Villandre is a variant of Philandry.

This birth record for Theona’s daughter has her as Vilandre. Now I just need a marriage record or baptismal record for Theona. Here is her baptismal record from 1878:

Her full name is Marie Theona Cordelia Vilandre. Her mother’s last name appears to be Franche or Fraiche?

It looks like Theona married in Rhode Island:

Here is the 1891 Census:

In the 1891 Census, Theona’s mother appears to be Lefranboise.

Here is the 1881 Census:

I am assuming that these are the same family, but I may be wrong. I can see why there is so much confusion in the Ancestry trees.

I can look for more information. The 1891 Census has a Pamel or Pomela born about 1874.

We see her parents were also Fabrien Vilandre and Elise Franche.

Here is some information on another sister:

The marriage place may not be right.

Here is a record from another child of the family:

Here is where Sawyer comes in:

Corliss appears to be here in the 1900 Census:

Here, Corliss is understandably transcribed as Corlier. I say close enough. At this point, I ready to give up on this line.

What Might I Learn from This Excercise?

  • There is still a DNA match, so something is going on
  • The general area of this line of Ransom’s ancestors is the same as the general area of the line of my children’s ancestors (around Montreal)
  • There may be another line Heather and JJ are connected with Ransom on or I may have misunderstood his Line or Heather and JJ’s
  • I learned a lot about some of Ransom’s ancestors

Heather and Rose

I am ready to try a new line:

Heather matches Rose by DNA. He shows a possible link to Joseph Grandmaison by way of Benjamin Grandmaison. I’ll try the same method which did not work so well previously, by making my own tree for Rose. I picked Rose because her tree is public:

Rose’s tree ends part way up the ThruLines:

This record got me to Imelda’s father:

Here is a scrawly record for Imelda:

It looks like Imelda’s mother’s name is Adelaide Gauthier and that the baptism happened in Noelville, Ontario:

Based on location and time frame, this appears to be William St. Louis:

Here are Elzear aka Joseph and his father Benjamin in 1911:

Of interest, we see that the family was from Quebec and moved to Ontario between four and six years before 1911.

Looking for Benjamin’s Mother

If I am to get agreement with the ThruLines, I need to find a Barbary for Benjamin’s mother. Here is Benjamin’s marriage record:

I have underlined the name of Benjamin’s mother. Here is the abbreviated view of my tree so far:

Here is the 1851 Baptismal record for Hermaline:

Here are Benjamin and his wife with what appears to be Benjamin’s parents:

Hermaline recorded as Ameline was on the next page:

I think this is where the family was living at the time near the top left of the map below:

Here is Benjamin’s marriage record:

That means that I can build a Barbary DNA/Genealogy Tree:

Barbary DNA/Genealogy Tree

Here I left out the dit Grandmaison as I didn’t see this name much in the official records.

Expanding the Tessier Tree

I’ll look at Heather and Mambo:

Mambo appears to be from Canada and has this tree:

Mambo’s tree goes back to Malvina Tessier. Here is Therese in 1931 in Montreal:

Next I would like to follow Lucienne. She is identified on Therese’s baptismal record:

Lucienne’s marriage record gives Lucienne’s mother’s name:

Unfortunately, the transcriber saw Tessier as Gausier. I don’t see it that way.

Here is Malvina’s baptismal record:

Here is St Timothee to the SW of Montreal where Malvina was baptized:

Here is how my tree is shaping up:

Here is an 1851 Marriage record between Louis Tessier and Catherine ‘Chorel’:

This record goes on to another page, but the date and place look right. That gets us back to Lambert Tessier who I hope to be the son of Joseph Tessier.

Here is an 1818 Marriage record for Lambert and Felicite:

Here is the name of the father of Lambert:

I can possibly make out Josephe Tessier.

Here are some Tessiers in 1851 St. Timothee:

Updating My Tessier DNA/Genealogy Tree

I could continue on a bit more with this tree, but I will leave it as is for now. This shows Saloman with two of his siblings and some descendants. It is always interesting to me how far back the DNA can go.

One More for the Barbary Tree

I’ll add one more line to the Barbary DNA/Genealogy Tree and then I’ll end this long Blog.

Now recall in Heather and JJ’s tree, they have a Joseph Barbary dit Grandmaison who married a Marie Grandmaison. So I assume that these two were relatives in some way. When I check the descent from Marie Grandmaison, there appear to be more lines.

I would be tempted to look into the Rosalie Line as there are 5 matches, but I had trouble when I looked into Ransom’s line:

Before I decide, here is the marriage record for Joseph Barbary and Marie Barbary:

It gets confusing as most people had a Joseph or a Marie in their names. Here Joseph is called Francois.

Oddly, I see no Francois in the Baptismal record, unless this is a different person:

Rosalie Barbary

Here is page two of Rosalie’s marriage record from 1842:

Her parents are given as Joseph Barbarie and Marie Barbarie. Here is St. Benoit:

Here is an Ancestry Tree for Rosalie:

Here I don’t see Eliza from 1849, though this is probably Marie Elise. I don’t see Cleophyre from 1840. Plus this would be two years before Rosalie’s marriage.

The Glephire Line

It seems the logical choice is to try out the Glephire Line.

Here is the maternal part of kjp’s tree:

I want to head towards Bourgon. I’ll make more own tree for kjp in the traditional way, starting with kjp and going back in time.

kjp had this record for his grandfather:

Here is a wedding announcement:

Unfortunately, Arthur does not look like the father’s name Ower? in George’s baptismal record.

Coming Down from Rosalie

Due to the fact that people had so many names, I am having trouble tracking down independently of kjp’s tree. For example kjp has:

But if I just use this information, then I am not verifying it. I did find a photo of Louis Franche:

However, this must be his second wife. This is from an Ancestry Tree:

This must be the family in 1861:

My guess is that Ogliphire is the same as Glephire. Glephire was baptized as Marie in 1845:

It looks like Glephie married a Paquet:

Or did she marry this guy?

This person was transcribed as Felix Gonquet, but I suppose it can be the same person.

Confusingly, this is the hint from the ThruLines:

The ThruLines follows Hillaire Hilion to Amanda Filion. So, I am stumped for right now unless Glephire married twice.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to check up on my children’s French Canadian ThruLines
  • Those ThruLines go back to the 1700’s on the Tessier and Barbary surnames
  • I ran into a bit of confusion on the Barbary side. I was close on a few ThruLine connections but couldn’t figure out what was wrong.
  • The Tessier Lines were a bit more straightforward
  • I enjoy making my own DNA/Genealogy charts for these two lines
  • I may come back and fill out more of the charts if I can.

 

Fred’s DNA Match to Me on the Snell Side

I have been messaging Fred since 2015, as he has a pretty good match to me at Ancestry:

Fred has a private searchable tree and another tree. However, it took a little extra searching to find Fred’s public tree:

Also Fred has Shared Matches with me with a person who has Snell ancestry and another with Luther Ancestry. Here is Harriet Blivens in my tree:

That means that the common ancestor between me and Fred is Anthony Snell and Betsy Luther.

Here is part of my Snell DNA/Genealogy Chart:

I circled where I am and where Harriet Blivens is.

I need to add in Fred under Blivens:

This shows that Fred and I should be 4th cousins once removed. The other shared match at Ancestry that Fred and I have is Jessica. Jessica is a third cousin once removed to me and 4th cousin twice removed to Fred.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I did not check Fred’s genealogy, but from the shared DNA matches I have with him, it seems like our genealogy must match up
  • The couple that Fred and I have as most recent common ancestors are Anthony Snell and Betsy Luther.
  • Anthony Snell was a prominent citizen of Dighton. He served in the Revolutionary War as a young soldier and lived until the age of 90.

 

 

A New McMaster Match?

DNA has been helpful in sorting out my McMaster Genealogy. One of my success stories has been in finding and sorting out this branch of my McMaster ancestors:

I had known about Fanny as she was the mother of my 2nd great grandmother Margaret McMaster who married George William Frazer. However, I did not know that her father William McMaster married a Margaret Frazer and moved the family to Canada minus Fanny. Fanny stayed back and married another McMaster!

Sharon’s New DNA Match with a Potential McMaster Descendant

My sister Sharon mathces scon:

Here Sharon and scon show as 5th cousins. Let’s check it out. Unfortunately, scon’s tree is private. It turns out that my sister Lori and I also match scon.

Checking Out Scon’s Tree

I don’t usually build down from my tree, but I will try doing that this time. I’m pretty sure the tree is right as scon and my familly’s shared DNA matches are from the McMaster Line. Here is what I have:

Somewhat confusingly, my 3rd great grandmother married a James McMaster and one of the children of William and Margaret McMaster was James.

The William McMaster side of my tree needs updating. I already have Maude on my Excel DNA/Genealogy Chart:

Here is William’s marriage record:

Here is the family in 1880:

This index shows Maude married an Allen:

This appears to be Hazel in 1910:

This is not the best way to make a tree (from the top down):

Here is the record of Hazel’s marriage:

I assume the Beth in this record is the Elizabeth at Ancestry:

Adding Scon to My McMaster DNA/Genealogy Tree

Shared DNA Matches with Scon

These were my shared matches with Scon:

I haven’t figured out how I match with Sue and Sue manages S.C. Robert and mt are children of Robert Trent above.

Here are my sister Lori’s shared DNA matches with scon:

My sister Sharon has this shared match that is different than the others:

His tree also goes back to James McMaster on his maternal side:

Here is a summary of my family’s shared DNA matches:

Gibbs on the chart above was the match to my sister Sharon. I could have drawn all the lines up to William McMaster and Margaret Frazer, but I decided to show all the intermediary common ancestors.

Summary and Conclusions

  • scon adds another piece to the Mcmaster Puzzle
  • scon is a second cousin to Robert and mt
  • Robert and mt are also shared DNA matches between scon and some of my family
  • keith is a shared match between scon and my sister Lori. Keith descends from James and Fanny McMaster on the tree above
  • jb or Giffs is a shared match between scon and my sister Sharon.

 

Hartley ThruLines Part 7

This is an extensive series of Hartley ThruLines, but I feel like I am getting further back on my Hartley ancestral line than I have in years of genealogical research that did not use DNA.

In this Blog, I would like to look at this ThruLine:

This is a ThruLine between Joyce, my father’s first cousin and hudson. The ThruLine for Hudson goes by way of John, born 1771, son of John Hartley.

First, I look to see if I have created a tree for Hudson and it appears that I have not. Hudson has a good tree:

However, it has a blank right where I need it. I assume that Hudson lives in Australia:

Here is Humphrey and family in Burnley in 1911:

Interestingly, Humphrey’s wife was from Philadelphia.

Looking for Humphrey Layfield’s Mother

It doesn’t take much to figure out that Humphrey’s mother’s first name was Hannah. This is the Census for Burnley and this family was all born in Burnley according to thie Census.

This record is helpful:

That leads me to this tree:

I need to verify that Elizabeth’s father was Thomas Hartley. An Ancestry member kindly posted this image:

The name Hitchon is a new one to me, but it is not the line that I am interested in. We do see Thomas Hartley as Eliizabeth’s father. This appears to be Briercliffe where Elizabeth was born:

Could this be the same Hannah Hartley?

It appears that Thomas Hartley could have died soon after the birth of Elizabeth Hartley. Based on hints, this is my best guess for the marriage of Thomas Hartley:

Who was the Father of Thomas Hartley?

We are looking for a John. Thomas’ first son was named John, possibly after Thomas’ father. It appears that this is a bit difficult. Here are clues from Ancestry:

There was a marriage for this couple in Burnley:

However, I cannot tell if this would lead me back to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. I do see this hint from the ThruLines:

However, I am not convinced of this connection at this point.

Other Hartley/Bracewell ThruLines: Joel and Nora

I do not believe that I have looked at this connection:

Lets take a look. Nora’s mom was from Texas. Nora’s grandfather was born in Pennsylvania, but his parents were from England. Here is the 1920 Census from Fort Worth, Texas:

I am looking for Samuel’s mother. In 1870, the family was in Philadelphia:

Here is my evolving tree for Nora:

Nora’s tree is pretty good and goes to the Robert and Peggy that I have documented already:

However, there is a conflict with a tree I already have for Karen:

Was Ann Elizabeth Longbotham Originally a Tomkinson?

This is probably Richard Longbottom in 1841 in Salford:

There was an Elizabeth Tomkinson who traveled to Philadelphi:

She appears to be with her father and mother. Here is the family 1841 in Pendleton, Salford, Manchester:

From this, I turned the page on the arriving immigrants from England:

Assuming I have the right woman, she must have married in Philadelphia. I feel like I am again using the criteria of ‘is this line possible?’ rather than can I prove this line.

According to the 1851 Census, Elizabeth and her family were born in Salford:

Was Ann Tomkinson a Hartley?

There appears to be more documentation here. This record is a bit messy:

William Tomkinson dies in 1915 and his mother should be Ann Hartley, however, it is transcribed as ‘Fathly’.

Here is an entry from ,

Genealogical memoirs of various families of Tomkinson (1620-1904) by Newton Powers Tomkinson, published 1904 in Philadelphia

Here is the transcription of the wedding mentioned above:

More on Nora’s Hartley Ancestry

Let’s check the Tomkinson Genealogy on the Hartleys. Here is a marriage between John Hartley and Elizabeth Crossley:

Next, a lot would be riding on the birth date of John Hartley. The most logical choice appears to be this John:

Generally speaking, babies were baptized fairly soon after birth unless there were extenuating circumstances. In this scenario, John Hartley from Waterside moves to the Manchester area where he marries in 1802.

I get these other hints from Ancestry:

This appears to be Elizabeth Crossley Hartley livign in Salford in 1851 with her unmarried daughter and grandson. This Elizabeth was born in Rochdale:

This baptismal date is the same as the birth date for Elizabeth given in the Tomkinson Genealogy above.

Ancestry also gives this hint for the 1841 Census in Manchester:

It appears that these two trees cannot both be right going back to Robert Hartley and John Hartley. Here is the proposed one for this Blog:

Here is the Tree for my previous Blog:

Note here I have John born 1796 based on the 1841 Census, but based on an Ancestry Tree, I decided that he could have been born in 1779.

It appears that there are pro’s and con’s for each of these trees:

  • The dates matched better with Nora’s tree, but not the location. It was unclear why John Hartley would move from Colne to Manchester or it was unclear that he did so
  • The locations matched better on Karen’s tree, but the dates seemed off.

Further, as I look at Joyce’s ThruLines, I no longer see my friend Elaine on her list:

These ThruLines are definitely in a state of flux. My solution for now is to give a tint to Elaine’s and Karen’s lines:

I don’t know what to do with Nora’s line for now as that would show a different wife for John Hartley. I do note that Nora matches my siblings Jon, Lori and Sharon. I haven’t tested one brother at Ancestry and one sister did not match Nora. The interesting thing is that these two ThruLines appear that conflict with each other. One is from my family and one is from my father’s 1st cousin.

Here is Nora’s Line shaded in green:

Here is the whole tree:

This completes for now the series on John Hartley/Anne Bracewell ThruLines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It can be confusing trying to sort out Hartley Genealogy in the area of Colne, Lancashire. DNA matches should help to direct this genealogy in certain directions
  • In 2019, I started looking at DNA matches from two people who appeaered to be descendants of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. Because of this connection I added John Hartley and Anne Bracewell to my Ancestry Tree
  • Ancestry then looked for and found other DNA matches with possible connections to Anne Bracewell and John Hartley using ThruLines
  • When I checked the ThruLines, most lines seemed to connect to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • However, near the end of the series, most questions arose on at least a few of the Lines. One problem was that there were two possible ways one of the Lines could have gone and didn’t seem that both could be true.
  • Next, ThruLines for my father’s first cousin Joyce goes back a further generation. I would like to look at those connections.