Category: DNA General

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23andMe Your Family Tree Beta

23andMe has a new feature. It tries to predict your family tree based on DNA alone. Here is mine:

This tree looks like it could have been designed by Dr. Seuss. It turns out that this is at least potentially helpful as I have had trouble figuring out who is who at 23andMe.

My guess is that the left hand side is to represent my mother’s side. My right hand side is my paternal side. However, a closer inspection of the tree shows that to not be the case. 23andMe gives you the opportunity to add some known ancestors in:

Iain to the lower left of me (JH) is right. He descends from my mother’s Uncle Leo from Latvia. However, other of my mother’s relatives are listed on my father’s side.

My Hartley/Snell Great Grandparents

Probably a good strategy for determining a paternal or maternal side is to go with the largest group. My Hartley/Snell grandparents had 13 children and most of them had children. So I picked that group to be the paternal side. This happened to be on the right-hand side of my 23andMe DNA Tree:

Daniel and Harold are rightly placed on the same level as me as second cousins. I suppose that it would be fun to try to fill this part in a bit. I’m familiar with this family on the right:

Mary Hartley was my great Aunt Mary and lived close by when I was growing up.

Fixing Mistakes in the Tree

It looks that it may be possible to fix mistakes in the future:

It’s not as much fun building out the tree when you know it is wrong. Here is my second cousin Judy:

She descends from my mother’s grandparents Lentz and Nicholson. Here she shows as descending from my father’s great-grandparents Snell and Bradford.

Even though Judith is shown on my paternal side, this relationship appears relatively correct:

Will and Judith’s ancestos would be my mother’s grandparents Lentz and Nicholson. However, as 23andMe does not show that couple as my direct ancestors, they do not give me the opportunity to enter both ancestors.

Gail On My Family Tree

Even though Gail should be on my maternal side, I figured out who she was by looking through my messages:

Gail actually descends from the Nicholsons. In fact, I already had her on the right hand side of a Nicholson chart I created:

As Joan, Linda, and Gail are sisters, it would be possible to perform visual phasing on their DNA results. I added to my chart that Gail was on 23andMe, so I would remember.

I’ll add Gail’s ancestry to the 23andMe tree:

My guess is that Alexander, Amelia and John descend from Nellie Nicholson. Nellie was the daughter of William Nicholson of Sheffield, England, not Isaiah Snell of Rochester, Massachusetts.

Sorting Out the Hartley Branch of the 23andMe Tree

I think I have figured out who Charles is:

Charles should be my second cousin twice removed. The DNA Tree shows Charles as my 3rd cousin once removed. Here is the DNA that Charles and I share:

Here is Charles added on to my own chart:

Charles represents a seventh child of James Hartley and Annie Snell. The only person who I can’t identify in my Hartley 2nd cousin group is DL. DL must come either from one of the children not shown above or perhaps come more distantly from the Snell family. My great-grandparents had 15 children over a 25 year period. Two died in infancy and two didn’t have children. That leaves 11 children with offspring. I show 7 above, so DL may come from one of the lines not represented above (or from a line that only tested at AncestryDNA).

Pro’s and Con’s of 23andMe’s ‘Your Family Tree’

I’ll start with the negatives:

Con’s

  • The tree mixes up maternal and paternal relatives. This would be solved if I had my mother tested at 23andMe. My suspicious side says that this is a scheme to get more people to test at 23andMe.
  • There are only two relatives shown on the tree that are on my maternal side. One is right and one is wrong. There appear to be 6 relatives that should be on the my mother’s side that show on my father’s side. That means that my mother’s side mathces are placed mostly wrong.
  • There is currently no way to correct the tree. Apparently this is in the works and would be quite helpful.

Pro’s

  • The tree prioritizes cousins to look at and contact
  • The tree gives potential lines based apparently on common matches.
  • Even though groups may be on the wrong paternal/maternal side, the common ancestors for those groups may be correct. This can help identify common ancestors for others in the group when one common ancestors is known.
  • Hopefully 23andMe will use the information added by me and others to correct their algorithms and improve their trees.
  • The tree gives a possible way that your tree could have been based just on DNA matches and helps put your 23andMe DNA matches into a context.

 

 

 

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Aunt Esther’s Newfoundland Ancestors, MyHeritage’s Theories of Relativity, and DNA Painter

I’m surprised that I have never written about my wife’s Aunt Esther’s Theories of Relativity (TOR). MyHeritage takes DNA matches and matches them up with ancestral trees. I’ll go through Esther’s Theories of Relativity.

Esther’s Top TOR – Wallace

I have Blogged about Wallace before. Here is how Wallace and Esther’s TOR looks like:

Esther and Wallace are 1st cousins once removed. I have already painted Wallace’s DNA onto Esther’s chromosome map.

Wallace accounts for some of the Esther’s green DNA above which represents DNA from either Henry Upshall or Catherine Dicks. The above map shows Esther’s paternal side which is 50% mapped.

TOR#2- Marilyn

Esther and Marilyn show as third cousins twice removed. The common ancestors are Christopher Dicks born about 1784 and Margaret. I don’t see Christopher Dicks on Esther’s Chromosome Painter Map. However, there is a problem with the match between Marilyn and Esther. The problem is that these two match by too much DNA for this relationship:

Marilyn and Esther share 151.5 cM. That puts them off the chart for 3C2R. However, there is a 0.46% chance of this being right. The more likely reason is that Marilyn and Esther match on more than one line. This is common with people who have Harbour Buffet genealogy. I’ll just ignore that for now and sort it out later, perhaps.

However, I see that Esther and Marilyn have this other match:

Marilyn descends from two of Christopher Dicks’ children: Robert and Rachel Dicks.

Here is how Marilyn and Esther match:

Here is the addition on Esther’s paternal side:

This brought up Esther’s paternally mapped DNA up 1% to 51% and her entire mapped DNA up 1% to 30%.

There is a utility at Gedmatch called ‘Are your parents related?’. Esther’s parents are related on several chromosomes. Here is one spot on Chromosome 2, where Esther matches Marilyn also:

I see that Wallace also matches Esther in this region.

TOR #3 – Annie

In the past, I have not looked much at Esther’s maternal side. That is because my mother-in-law is Esther’s half niece and is not related on Esther’s maternal side. However, I’ll look at Esther’s maternal side now.

I’ll just paint Annie’s match onto Esther. This is what Esther’s maternal side looks like so far at 8% painted:

The addition brings Esther’s maternal map back to the late 1700’s:

That gets Esther’s maternal side up to 10% painted.

I do see one problem at Chromosome 1 already:

Violet and Annie both match Esther on the right side of Chromosome 1. That segment cannot be for both shared ancestor couples. It could be that Violet has Shave and/or Parsons ancestors or some other similar explanation. This is another reason I haven’t looked into Esther’s maternal side!

TOR #4 – Josiah

Josiah looks like he could be Annie’s Uncle:

That also makes Josiah, Esther’s third cousin.

Josiah has a similar issue with Violet, but on a different segment of Chromosome 1:

I’ll file that under the category of ‘sort it out later’.

TOR #5 – Frederick

Frederick appears to be Annie’s brother. His Theory of Relativity is missing a generation, so I won’t show it. It turns out that Frederick didn’t add any new Shave/Parsons DNA to Esther’s map that his sister and uncle didn’t already have:

Frederick’s matches show up in grey cross-hatch above.

TOR #6 – Jacqueline

Esther also has Kirby ancestors, but this shows only the Shave/Parsons common ancestors.

I decided to change Shave/Parsons to yellow. Jacqueline adds quite a bit:

TOR #7 – David, Another Pafford Descendant

This could take a while as Esther has a lot of matches:

Stephen adds a large match to Esther’s Chromosome 1:

Esther’s maternal side is now 15% painted. Esher’s entire chromosomes are now 33% or one third painted:

As far as I know, MyHeritage does not show X Chromosome matches. That means that we have to go to Gedmatch to get X Chromosome matches.

Marilyn and Esther’s X Match

I mentioned Marilyn above. I know that her DNA has been uploaded to Gedmatch. The X Chromosome is a special case and follows a specific inheritance in that the X Chromosome is never passed down from father to son. That means that the X Chromosome match that Marilyn and Esther share was passed down from Margaret, the wife of Christopher Dicks. We can know that because of Esther’s tree:

Above, I had that Margaret may have been a Burton, but in looking at other trees, I don’t see that as much of an option.

Now Esther has a little color on her paternal side X Chromosome. That is the side that men don’t have. I could do much more, but I’ll get back to the Theories of Relativity.

TOR #8 – Rowena

Rowena takes us back a generation on the Dicks side:

I don’t know when this Christopher was born, but I’ll say about 1750. I’ll paint this match and see what happens. I see a few potential problems. One is that these segment sizes are quite large for such an old match:

The other potential problem is that Rowena and MB have a match with Esther that overlap on Chromosome 2:

Rowena’s common ancestor with Esther is Christopher Dicks and MB’s common ancestors are Peter Upshall and Margaret.

TOR’s #9 and 10 – Another Wallace and Valetta

This is not the same as the earlier Wallace but seems to be another brother of Annie:

As such, he did not add any more Shave/Parsons DNA to Esther’s map. TOR #10, Valetta appears to be Wallace’s sister.

TOR #11 – Laurie

Here is someone with a more recent Shave ancestor:

However, MyHeritage also shows this possible match:

To make things more confusing, Laurie has a Joseph Dicks in her tree which may be the same Joseph I have on Esther’s maternal side:

It may be that further DNA analysis could sort this out, but I’ll skip Laurie for now.

TOR #12 – Janet

Janet also has two TOR’s – one on Esther’s paternal side and one on her maternal side, so I’ll skip her for now also.

TOR #12 – Harold

Harold is forging into new old territory:

I’m not sure what to make of this. I’m tempted to add the Pike name to Esther’s maternal side.

As a follow-up, I could check on Esther’s likely maternal Pike ancestors.

Summaries and Conclusions

  • MyHeritage’s Theories of Relativity lend themselves to the DNA Painter program.
  • I had some problem when the Theories of Relativity were on Esther’s Paternal and Maternal sides, so I chose to ignore those situations.
  • One shortcoming of MyHeritage is that they don’t show X Chromosome matches. Those are important for showing specific common ancestors.
  • I could follow up on Esther’s DNA painting by looking for more Gedmatch matches.
  • It appears that Esther has Pike ancestry on her maternal side based on one Theory of Relativity

 

 

 

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Edward H Butler May Not Be the Son of Michael Butler and Margaret Croke?

In my previous Blog, I wrote an update on Butler DNA. In that Blog, I discussed a match between my wife’s Aunt Lorraine and Brian:

Brian shows up at AncestryDNA as a potential third cousin to Lorraine. That means that unless there is an unusual circumstance, my proposed DNA/genealogy chart cannot be right.

That chart shows Brian and Lorraine as 4th cousins once removed. However, reported data indicates that sharing 147 cM of DNA is outside the range of 4C1R possibilities, but is within the realm of likelihood (albeit on the high end) for a 3C1R:

As we have a birth record for George Butler, but not for Edward H Butler, that suggests that Edward H (likely Henry) Butler could have been the son of Henry Butler and Ann Russel.

Playing With the Butler Family Tree

There, I just made Lorraine and Brian third cousins, once removed. However, Edward H just lost MIchael Butler as his father. Here is the family tree that Butler researcher Peter has:

HENRY1 BUTLER was born in 1800 in Wexford. He married Ann Russel on 02 Jul 1824 in Wexford.

She was born in 1800 in Wexford.

Henry Butler and Ann Russel had the following children:

i. GEORGE2 BUTLER was born on 03 Oct 1826 in Wexford, Ireland. He died on 23 Dec 1890 in Hamilton County, Ohio. He married (1) MARY WHITTY, daughter of Richard Whitty and Margaret, on 12 Jun 1849 in Mountain Gate Rathangan Wexford. She was born on 03 Dec 1824 in Rathangan Wexford, Ireland. She died on 11 Jan 1865 in Hamilton County, Ohio. He married (2) MARGARET SINNOTT on 11 Nov 1868 in All Saints Catholic Church Cincinatti. She was born in 1845 in wexford Ireland. She died in 1887 in Hamilton County, Ohio.

ii. NICHOLAS BUTLER was born on 23 Apr 1828 in Wexford. He married Christina Lambert on 06 Oct 1848 in Wexford Ireland. She was born in Wexford.

iii. ELIZA BUTLER was born on 06 Mar 1830 in Wexford.

HENRY BUTLER was born on 29 Mar 1832 in Wexford.

MARY ANNE BUTLER was born on 23 Mar 1833 in Wexford.

BRIDGET BUTLER was born on 15 Jul 1836 in Wexford.

vii. ADAM BUTLER was born on 24 Jul 1839 in Wexford. I think this is a Baptism date

Peter also found another daughter for this family born in 1842:

Peter notes that George’s other name also appeared as Adam on his baptismal record and that the Adam born in 1839 went by Edward. There are a few reasons why Edward H may have been part of the Henry Butler/Ann Russell family:

  • The large DNA match between Lorraine and Brian
  • The fact that Edward did not name any of his children after Michael nor after Margaret
  • Edward did name his first son George and lived in Cincinnati for several years where the (presumably) elder George Butler lived.
  • The middle name of Henry which was carried down could have been for the Henry Butler born about 1800 in the genealogy above.
  • There has been no birth record found for Edward as son of Michael (nor as son of Henry).
  • Most records for Edward’s sons list his father born in Kilkenny. However, one record lists his father as being from Wexford.

Under my scenario, Edward is born to Henry in Wexford but is adopted by Michael Butler of Poulrone, Killkenny for some reason.

James Butler Born About 1823 Kilkenny, IRE

I have noted before that it appears that Edward was a brother to a James Butler. This was inferred from the US Census of 1910:

Here Mary Mellie is actually Mary Butler, the daughter of James Butler and Mary Quinn. She was born in 1858, though she would like us to think that she was born in 1880. That is quite a difference. Joanna, born in 1860 would have liked to have us think she was born in 1877. Edward Butler was clearly not Mary’s father. That lead me to believe that Edward and James could have been brothers and Edward was acting as Mary’s father. If Edward gave his correct age, he would have been born about 1832 (see below).

However, I note that this James Butler’s eldest son was Michael Butler:

Perhaps this James actually was a son of Michael Butler. James’ son Matthew could have been named for his brother.

Here is Mathias or Matthew Butler who is recorded as a son of Michael Butler and Margaret Croak:

So under this scenario (likely or not), Edward goes to live with and Uncle and considers the Uncle and Aunt his parents. He also considers James and Matthew his brothers.

So Where Does Edward H Butler Fit In?

Peter recently discovered  Naturalization papers for an Edward Butler from Poulrone:

In those papers, he gives his birth year as 1825. However, if he is the same as Henry born in Wexford in 1832, that would fit in better with other recorded birth years for Edward:

If Henry was named for his father, it would make sense that he might go by a different name to avoid confusion. One problem with the timing is that if Edward came to the US in 1843, he would have been only 11. That leaves a few possibilities:

  1. Edward was actually born 17 August 1825. To do that, he would have been squeezed in between his parents’ marriage and the birth of George in 1826.
  2. Edward was born in 1832, came to the US, say in 1848 when he was about 16 and was naturalized at about age 18. That would results in several fibs as his witnesses were supposed to have known him for 5 years before his naturalization.

More DNA Analysis

As I mentioned above, the DNA match between Lorraine and Brian has lead me to the above scenario. Here is an AutoCluster I performed for Lorraine earlier in the year:

These clusters are difficult to see. Clusters are where you match people in a group and that group of people match each other for the most part. Lorraine is part French Canadian and part Irish. The French Canadian took over for the most part. Lorraine’s Irish clusters are in the bottom right. Brian is in Cluster 35 which has 7 members.

Here is a closeup of the Clusters 33-36:

 

Brian is the second person in Cluster 35. He matches Barbara, Donna, Patty and Kim:

That means that in Cluster 35, there are three descendants of Edward H and three descendants of George Butler. I don’t know if the fact that there are three people on each side make the proposed tree more likely or not. To me, it suggests that it could be more likely.

Cluster 34

Brian also matches two people in Cluster 34. That is a Kerivan Cluster, but Edward H’s son Edward Henry born 1875 married a Kerivan, so that explains the connection. Brian is matching on the Butler side of the Kerivan Cluster. Brian matches Amanda and Dawn in Cluster 34. Unfortunately, Amanda and Dawn either have no tree or not enough to figure out their ancestors.

Analyzing the Size of DNA Matches

There are two ways to do this. One is by the Chart I showed at the top of the Blog. It is possible to analyze the possibilities at Ancestry also. Here is how AncestryDNA shows Brian and Lorraine:

Their most likely relationship given the match would be 2nd cousin once removed. However, they have a 1% chance of being 3C1R. I’ll put that into a chart:

I’ll be looking at my wife’s Aunt Lorraine and her sister Virginia as I manage their DNA results. Here is how the results look:

Were it not for the match between Lorraine and Brian, I would say that the results are inconclusive. However, there appears to be no chance that Brian and Lorraine could be fourth cousins once removed.

Looking at Gedmatch

I can also look at Gedmatch, however, there is not a one-to-one correlation between AncestryDNA and Gedmatch. Here is how the match between Lorraine and Kim looks at Gedmatch:

Gedmatch expresses it’s guesses in generations. So a 4.5 means generations to a common ancestor. That would be equivalent to a third cousin once removed. The green above represents the new chart that I have with George Butler and Edward H Butler as brothers. The yellow represents George Butler and Edward H Butler as first cousins.

Here is some more data, though, again, I don’t see any clear conclusions:

Summary and Conclusions

  • A high DNA match between Lorraine and Brian in conjunction with lack of some key birth records has lead me to believe that George Butler born 1826 and my wife’s ancestor Edward H Butler could be brothers.
  • That would mean that Edward H Butler’s parents would be Henry Butler and Ann Russell.
  • Then why would tradition and records on the Edward H Butler line have his parents as Michael Butler and Margaret Croke? One possibility is that Michael and Margaret were Edward’s Uncle and Aunt and that he went to live with them and considered them to be his parents. Perhaps MIchael needed help on his farm or Edward had some falling out with his family.
  • This should lead to a renewed interest to find out more about the Henry Butler and Michael Butler families.
  • I would be open to other interpretations, but due to a high DNA match which indicates that George Butler and Henry H Butlers should be brothers, no other clear possibilities come to mind right now.
  • I still surmise that Henry Butler and Michael Butler could be brothers. I have a birth record for Matthew, son of Michael and my assumption is that Michael Butler had a son named James. James had several children. One of his daughters was Mary who married a Mellie and housed Edward H Butler in Newton, Massachusetts according to the 1910 Census.

 

 

 

 

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Edward Butler Son of Henry Butler and Ann Russel Born 1839 Wexford

Thanks to my fellow researcher Peter from England. He, with the help of Neil, has unearthed Edward Butler. This was no easy task as this Edward was baptized Adam:

George Butler Born 1826 Wexford, Ireland

Adam must have been a popular name in this family as George was also baptized as Adam:

George is important because he moved from Ireland to Cincinnati. He had two wives and descendants who have taken DNA tests. Those DNA tests have linked George to my wife’s ancestor Edward Butler (different than the Edward above). Here is my tree from Henry Butler showing those on the bottom who match my wife’s Butler family by DNA:

Above, I have added in Edward Butler (baptized Adam) next to George.

The Ireland, St John, Cincinnati, and Boston Connection

  1. My wife’s ancestor Edward was born in Ireland. He married in St John, New Brunswick. He moved to Cincinnati, then to the Chicago area and then to the Boston area.
  2. George Butler above was born in Wexford and moved to Cincinnati. However, his daughter Mary Ann who was born in Cincinnati moved to St John where she married Thomas Joseph Murphy. This implies that the family had previous connections with St John.
  3. The Edward of this Blog was born in Wexford, and died in Boston. However, his funeral notice in the newspaper mentions that the funeral arrangements would be of interest in St John, NB.

Here is Edward’s Boston Globe funeral notice thanks to Peter:

Edward Butler Born 1839 Wexford, Ireland

Perhaps this Edward who was baptized Adam can shed some light on these connections. I’ll start with Edward’s death which Peter already found. Edward was listed as married and a longshoreman. He died of pneumonia at the Boston City Hospital:

I found this 1908 marriage:

This Julia A married a man from Digby Nova Scotia. Her parents were Edward E Butler and Catherine Murray. Julia A was said to be born in Boston, but her husband’s naturalization papers say she was born in Ireland:

I can’t be sure this is the right family. It appears that Julia could have been from Cork:

However, other Ancestry trees seem to think that this is the right person:

City Directories

I’ll try some City Directories. Here is Newton, Massachusetts in 1893:

This is at 220 California Street where Edward’s funeral was at in 1891. I assume that b means boards. That would mean that this was a boarding house.

Here is the 1891 Newton Directory:

I get the sense that Edward (Adam) lived in Boston, but had the funeral at a boarding house where Edward H Butler lived in Newton.

Who Was Edward H Bulter, Clerk at 220 California Street?

Hopefully this is more than a wild goose chase.  In 1895, this Edward H was a canvasser:

Here is a bit of a breakthrough in the 1897 Directory:

Here, Edward H makes the switch from clerk to canvasser to machinist. This is important because my wife’s great-grandfather was Edward Henry Butler, a machinist.  In the 1899 Newton Directory, the entry is exactly the same.

By the time of the 1900 Census, Edward H had moved to 26 Crescent Street, Newton:

Here Edward is shown as being born in Massachusetts, where other records have him born in Chicago.

That leads me to an interesting conclusion. My wife’s great-grandfather was living in Newton at least as early as 1891. At that time he was 16 years old, working as a clerk and hosting the funeral of Edward (baptized Adam) Butler who was born in Wexford in 1839. Edward later was a canvasser shortly and then a machinist and moved to 26 crescent street.

[Edit: After further thought, it would make more sense if the Edward H Butler in the Directory and holding the funeral service was the elder Edward H Butler born in Ireland. Subsequent evidence has come to light based on DNA testing that the two may have been brothers. That means that they would have been brothers of the elder George Butler who lived in Cincinnati also.]

In November 1901 Edward H married Lillian Frances Kerivan. However, it seems the marriage got off to a rocky start. Here is a note from the Newton marriage intentions dated 6 November 1901:

This note is in the column titled “married when, where and by whom”. This would usually give the name and address of a priest. Apparently the marriage took place but in Boston, not in Newton where the Intentions were recorded:

Here is the person who married them:

This is also a bit unusual. CL stands for Clergyman. PR stands for priest. That means that this was not a Catholic wedding. Perhaps that is why Edward destroyed the original certificate?

Back To Edward Butler Born 1839 Wexford, Ireland

Other than Edward’s birth and death, not much can be found out about him. Here is a detail from Edward’s death record:

Boston City Hospital was not at 24 Clark Street, so I assume that is where Edward lived prior to his death. According to Google maps, 24 Clark Street is the address of the Society of St James. However, that Society began in 1958. The Society of St James is part of St Stephens Church:

Ancestry has this listing for Edward Butler in the Boston Directory of 1890:

Here is my guess from 1889:

Here is another guess:

The above is from the 1879 St John Directory.

Then, if we want to accept that he was a seaman, we can consider this record:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I am fortunate to have Peter working on my genealogy as he has come up with so many leads.
  • Peter’s finding of this other Edward Butler has lead to more important clues for my wife’s family.
  • Edward son of Henry Butler had his funeral at the boarding house where my wife’s great-grandfather Edward H Butler lived. Edward was the grandson of Michael Butler of Ireland.
  • I suspect that Henry and Michael Butler were brothers.
  • It was difficult finding clues for Edward, son of Henry other than his birth and death records. However, looking at his information shined some light on details of my wife’s family.
  • While working on this Edward, new information has been brought to light by Peter concerning my wife’s immigrant ancestor Edward. I’ll Blog about that soon.

 

 

 

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Upshall DNA Update: Barry From New Zealand

In a previous Blog, I looked at Mervyn’s DNA. He matched my wife’s family on the Newfoundland side where many Upshall’s lived. Upshall DNA and genealogy is a difficult subject. Many families intermarried in the small community of Harbour Buffett where many of these families lived.

Esther’s Early Upshall ThruLines

Esther is my wife’s 1/2 great Aunt. Here are her early Upshall ThruLines:

Here, the working theory is that Sarah Upshall (above left) was the daughter of John Upshall and that she was the single mother of Peter who moved to Newfoundland. This theory seems to be born out by the above ThruLines.

I have also come up with my own tree that mixes ancestry and DNA:

This tree has George in the right columns as one of four children of John Upshall. Sarah is in the middle with many Newfoundland descendants. Interestingly, there is no overlap between Ancestry’s ThruLines and my chart.

The John at the top of the chart was married to an Elizabeth Ellis. The ThruLines for Elizabeth give me one more line to look at:

All the ThruLines have a note that they want me to evaluate the lines. That sounds like a lot of work. The thing that I like about these early ThruLines is that they represent the family before they moved to Newfoundland, so there would be less intermarriage with these lines. That means that these lines should more likely have Upshall common ancestor rather than another name.

Evaluating Esther’s Early Upshall ThruLines

The Upshall/Carter Line

I’ll first look at the additional ThruLine that Elisabeth Ellis has. Barry shows a 19 cM match with Esther. Fortunately, Barry also has uploaded his DNA results to Gedmatch:

Before I look at Barry’s genealogy, I note that Martha also matches Esther at this location. Here is Esther’s Chromosome 12:

This is roughly the area where Barry matches Esther in red. If Barry also matches Martha, then we would have triangulation and indication of a common ancestor:

This shows that Esther, Barry and Martha triangulate. This gives me confidence that the Ancestry ThruLine between Barry and John Upshall is correct.

Here is Martha’s tree. Ancestry has put green rectangles around common ancestors:

This shows that Esther and Martha also match twice on the Kirby/Emberley lines. Barry has 28,000 people in his tree but no Kirby or Emberley. That means that the common ancestor for Esther, Martha and Barry should be Upshall/Ellis.

Barry’s Genealogy

I’ll do a quick tree for Barry to figure out who the private person is in the tree. I got back as far as Priscilla Carter and noticed an Ann Upshall in Barry’s tree:

This appears to be Ann’s birth record:

Here is Winterborne-Stickland, about 6 miles from Hazelbury Bryan:

Triangulating With Barry

Now we have a match by DNA, Triangulation and genealogy:

The people in the green boxes have their DNA at Gedmatch.

DNA Painter

All that is left to do is to paint in these ancestors on Esther’s Chromosome 12:

This shows more precisely where Barry’s match is on Esther’s paternal side Chromosome 12. It appears that Joan’s sister Elaine and Martha have DNA from either John Upshall born 1739 or his wife Elisabeth Ellis.

Summary and Conclusions

  • In updating my wife’s side Upshall DNA matches, I came across Barry
  • Because Barry had his genealogy at Ancestry and his DNA at Gedmatch, he was the perfect example to show and Upshall match that was outside of Newfoundland.
  • A match outside of Newfoundland is important as other Newfoundland matches have confounding DNA matches and genealogy.
  • I was able to show genetic triangulation with Barry, my wife’s Aunt Esther and at least one other match. That triangulation in conjunction with the genealogy seemed to confirm that Esther’s DNA match with Barry was from an Upshall born in the 1700’s.
  • In areas where there is intermarriage, it helps to go to earlier matches outside the area of intermarriage if possible. In this case the Upshall matches go back to the area of Hazelbury Bryan in Dorset, England.

 

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The DNA of Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster Born Ontario 1861

In my previous Blog on Effie, I looked at some possible parentage. In this Blog, I’ll get into some genetic genealogy, looking at the DNA of Effie’s great-granddaughter, Jean. Jean recently uploaded her Ancestry results to Gedmatch for comparison.

Effie’s Possible Ancestry

Based on reasons I presented in my previous Blog, it seems like Effie’s grandparents should be William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Here is a pre-Effie tree that combines DNA-tested descendants of William and Margaret McMaster with an ancestry chart:

I had guessed that Effie was the daughter of Isabel McMaster who should fit in on the second row above. I note that Jean told me that she matches Keith by DNA. So that is further evidence that Jean and Effie may belong on this chart.

Here I entered Jean’s line in a different color as we are still figuring this out.

Jean and Keith

It turns out that Jean is Keith’s fourth highest DNA match and my brother Jim is Keith’s fifth highest DNA match at Gedmatch. Here is how Jean and Keith match:

The DNA doesn’t tell who the common ancestor is, but suggests that Jean and Keith have a common ancestor. On the chart above, Keith and Jean’s common ancestors are 5 generations away. Gedmatch is guessing that the common ancestor could be as close as 4 generations away. By the chart above, if I am right, Keith and Jean would be 4th cousins.

By comparison, here is where Keith and my brother Jim match:

If Jim, Keith and Jean all matched on overlapping areas, then we could say that the three triangulate and share the same common ancestors. However, the fact that they don’t all match on the same segments doesn’t mean that they don’t share common ancestors. Sounds confusing, I know.

Jean and Emily

The next person I recognize on Jean’s DNA match list is Emily. Here is how they match:

Jean and Paul

Jean has a smaller match with my cousin Paul:

 

None of my family has DNA matches with Jean but that is not unusual for a 4th cousin once removed. However, one could say that we are related in the sense that Paul and Emily are related to Jean as my siblings and I are 2nd cousins once removed to Paul and Emily.

BV – Descendant of Mary Ann McMaster

BV had uploaded her results to Gedmatch, but now I don’t see them. It could be that there was a problem with the results or a private button was turned on. I wrote a Blog about BV’s DNA here. It’s too bad that those are missing as I would have liked to have seen how Jean matched BV. Right now the only DNA uploaded to Gedmatch is from Jean and descendants of Fanny McMaster. [However, see below in the Blog.]

Jean and the X Chromosome

Jean probably would be a good X Chromosome match with others, but her X Chromosome DNA did not get uploaded to Gedmatch. The reason that she would be a good match is that the X Chromosome is never inherited by a son from the father. So for example,

The places that I have red boxes, show where there cannot be an X Chromosome passed down. This means that BV can match Jean, my sisters,  or Emily by the X Chromosome. In order to show this, we would need to get BV’s DNA back up on Gedmatch and get Jean’s X Chromosome results to Gedmatch.

Jean’s Matches with Frazers

I have a Frazer DNA project, so I’ll check some of these people to see if Jean mathes any of them. Here Jean matches Cathy:

Here is Cathy’s tree as it relates to the Frazer family:

Jean and Cathy’s common ancestors could be Frazer, Stinson, Parker, Moore, or someone not even on this chart. Cathy is on the Archibald Line of the Frazer family. The best guess for Jean’s ancestor Margaret Frazer is that Margaret is on the James Line of the Frazer family.

Jean and Jamie

I found a small match here:

Jean and the James Line of the Frazers

Here Jean matches Toni:

Here is where Toni is on the DNA/genealogy chart for the James Frazer Line:

This means that if I Margaret Frazer placed right and Toni placed right, they would be on opposite sides of the James Line Chart. That means that Toni and Jean would be about 6th cousins, or something may be wrong in the chart. The other possibility is that they match on a  different line.

Rodney and Jean’s DNA Match

Here is Rodney on the Chart:

All the same caveats are in effect for this match that were in effect for Jean’s match with Toni above.

Frank and Jean

I’m looking for trends here. So far the trend is that Jean is matching more Frazers on the James Line side as compared to the Archibald LIne.

Here Frank shows as a closer relative to descendants of Margaret Frazer based on where I have her placed in the tree.

Keith and Jean

I already mentioned Keith above.

However, above, I was thinking about the McMaster side. The assumption is that Keith and Jean match on the McMaster and Frazer sides, so we wouldn’t know which side the matches above are on.

Barbara and Jean

It’s a good thing that I went through my list twice, as I missed Barbara the first time:

Finding BV

It turns out that the Barbara above is actually the BV I was looking for. If I search for BV at Gedmatch by her kit#, Gedmatch tells me that there is no such kit. But if I put in her kit number into Gedmatch for comparison, I can find matches. This is the missing information that I was looking for.

Based on the proposed tree, BV and Jean are third cousins, once removed.  Based on Gedmatch’s best guess, BV and Jean have a common ancestor 4.4 generations away. William McMaster and Margaret McMaster are 4 generations from BV and 5 generations from Jean. That averages out to 4.5 generations. Seeing as a common ancestor would never be 4.4 generations away, that is pretty close.

Triangulation, Crossovers and Chromosome 8

If BV, Jean and Emily each matched each other on Chromosome 8, that would be a strong indication that they each received that DNA from the same ancestor. However, look at what happened. BV and Jean match each other on Chromosome 8 between positions 57M and 71.  Emily and Jean match each other between positions 71 and 104M:

This could indicate a crossover. A crossover is where the DNA we inherited from one ancestor cross over to the DNA we inherited from the spouse of that ancestor. In this case, the crossover could be between William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Our crossovers are inherited from our grandparents. So, if this is a crossover between William McMaster and Margaret Frazer it would be a crossover that came down to BV or Jean either through Elizabeth Shannon or Effie McMaster.

Here is Elizabeth:

Here is Effie:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Jean uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch for comparison. That comparison shows that she matches BV, Emily and Paul. These four descend from William McMaster and Margaret Frazer.
  • By a proposed chart, Jean would be third cousin once removed to BV. She would be fourth cousin to Keith, Emily and Paul. She would be 4th cousin once removed to me and my five siblings. Jean and my direct family do not show shared DNA, but that is not uncommon for that level of relationship. However, our family has matches to BV, Keith, Emily and Paul and the genealogical connection is more secure.
  • Jean’s X Chromosome results did not get uploaded to Gedmatch. A comparison of those results should give further evidence that Jean shares the common ancestors of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer with BV, Keith, Emily, and my direct family.
  • I was not able to triangulate Jean’s DNA matches. Triangulation would indicate a specific common ancestor. However, the fact that Jean’s matches didn’t triangulate does not mean that the proposed genealogy is wrong. I also looked at a possible crossover between DNA inherited from William McMaster and DNA inherited from Margaret Frazer.
  • In general, the DNA results support the assumption that Jean descends from William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. In order for that to be the case, Effie McMaster would have to have been the child of one of William and Margaret’s children. I had proposed Isabel as that child. However, I have no direct proof that Isabel is the child of William and Margaret and no proof that Effie is the daughter of Isabel. Having said that, there is a likelihood that Isabel could be the daughter of William and Margaret and that Effie could be Isabel’s daughter.
  • So what I am saying is that the DNA gives more evidence that William and Margaret are the grandparents of Effie, but do not supply additional evidence that Isabel is the mother of Effie. The evidence that Isabel may be the mother of Effie has to do with the fact that Isabel was in the right place at the right time and had the last name of McMaster.

 

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The Mystery of Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster Born 1861 Ontario

I recently had an email from the great-granddaughter of Effie Jean McMaster whose name was also Jean. She has been trying to find out more about her mother’s favorite grandmother. Here if Effie’s photo at age 18:

The Mystery of Effie McMaster

Effie’s great-granddaughter states:

Family oral history and limited documentation indicate that the McMaster’s immigrated to Toronto, Canada in 1845 from Sligo. My great-grandmother, Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster, b. 1861, Effingham, Ontario, Canada was born to William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. He is said to have died before she was born and that her mother, Margaret, was unable to care for her and she was “adopted” by a Susan McMaster, b. 1834, Sligo, Ireland, and her husband, John Beckett, b. 1806, Ontario, Canada. In family oral and written history, Susan and Margaret were ‘sisters’ but both belonged to the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) who referred to each other as ‘sisters’ by religious tradition, casting doubt on any biological connection.  

Then in a follow-up email:

I started my genealogy journey because I wanted to find out more about the woman my mother adored, my great-grandmother Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster. Ironically, I’ve never been able to unlock the mystery of her parentage. I have been through the Canadian Census’s, the Quaker Meeting notes, read notes in autograph books and the back of pictures and queried family members when they were alive but still no answers. The family oral history says her father, William McMaster, died before she was born in 1961 and her mother, Margaret Frazer, died when she was 16, about 1877, indicating she probably knew her mother. Effie does show up in the 1871 Census as the ‘adopted’ daughter of Susan McMaster and John Beckett but I’ve been unable to find any death certificates, gravesites or mention in church records of William McMaster/Margaret Frazer. I’ve looked at Canadian immigration records and have found a Margaret McMaster traveling with a child but it is before my g-grandmother was born. Again, dates and ages do not match.

Effie in 1871

Here is Effie in 1871:

Effie shows as adopted at age 9, but either with a line through adopted (or underlined?). She goes by the name Effie J Beckett. Her father is a miller. Also living in the house is Alfred Beckett and his family:

The location of this Census is Pelham, Ontario:

The John Beckett Household

Isabel McMaster

I assume that John’s wife Susan was a McMaster. I assume that the 40 year old single “Esibel” is Susan’s sister. That would put her birth at about 1831 in Ireland. She is likely Isabel. Effie is said to be short for Euphemia.

Here is Isabel in 1861:

Now Isabel is 35 which means she was born about 1826. Now there is also a George A McMaster living in the house. Perhaps he is a younger brother to Susan and Isabel. George appears to have been born in Canada in about 1847. John and Susan are listed as Quakers. Isabel and George however are W M which I take to be Wesleyan Methodists.

The 1851 Census didn’t come out until 1852. There, we see Isabella living with Mary Ann McMaster Shannon in Vaughan, York County:

That puts Isabella born in 1827. A working theory is that Isabella is a daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer.

A Clue With George McMaster?

A search for George brings up this birth in the Wesleyan Methodist Baptism Register:

This is where you need to read the fine print. The George A McMaster of the 1861 Census is very likely George Arthur McMaster, son of George and Jane McMaster from Vaughan, Ontario (where other McMaster relatives lived). This George fits in with the George from my Blog on the four McMaster sisters:

Jane McMaster was the daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. George was her youngest son with George McMaster. Susan McMaster, above was 28 in 1861, so that would mean she was born about 1833. In 1871, Susan listed her age as 36, making her a bit younger.  Now we have a few possibilities for Susan (McMaster) Beckett. Was she the daughter of Jane McMaster or Jane McMaster’s sister? Also how does Effie fit in? As George, born 1847, was the youngest son of George and Jane McMaster, he could not be the full brother of Effie who was born about 1861.

Part of the mystery of Effie is that there are lot of similarities between the family stories about her and my McMaster relatives. I mention those relatives in a Blog about four McMaster sisters and their brother. One of those sisters, Catherine McMaster lived in Burford, Ontario. Her husband, Henry Bennett was also a miller. Family lore has William McMaster and Margaret Frazer as Effie’s parents. My ancestors were also William McMaster and Margaret Frazer, though they were born much too early to be Effie’s parents. In 1852, Catherine Bennett, the miller’s wife was living with her mother Margaret Frazer McMaster who put her age at 63. That means that Margaret was probably born around 1789. The miller connection may be a coincidence, but I mention it in case it isn’t.

Summing Up the 1871 Census

We learned that Effie was living in a house where George A McMaster used to live. George was the son of George McMaster and Jane McMaster. Jane was the daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer (my ancestors). Also sharing the Beckett house with Effie was Isabel McMaster. Isabel was single and in 1852 lived in the household of Mary Ann McMaster Shannon. Mary Ann, Jane and my sister Fannie McMaster were all sisters originally from Kilmactranny Parish in the Southern part of County Sligo. Sometime between 1852 and 1861 Isabel moved from the Shannon household to the Beckett household. We can deduce that Effie was not a full sibling of George Arthur McMaster as George was the last child of George and Jane McMaster.

Effie in Antioch, California

In 1880, the Census shows that the Beckett family had moved to California:

Here Effie is shown as a niece. That would normally mean the daughter of a brother or sister of the John or Susan. The birthplace of Effie’s parents is interesting:

This has Effie’s father born in Ontario and mother born in Ireland. That brings up the possibility that Effie’s mother may have been a McMaster. If that is the case, then her birth name may not have been McMaster. My reasoning goes like this: Jean has the McMaster family immigrating to Canada in 1845. My previous guess was 1844, so pretty close. Effie’s father could not be from the McMaster family that came to Canada in 1844 if he was born in Ontario 1841 or earlier. I’m guessing that if Effie was born in 1861, then her father should have been at least 20 in 1861. That means that if the 1880 California Census is correct, then Effie’s mother would more likely be a McMaster. A scenario would be that Effie’s mother is a McMaster born in Ireland. She comes to Canada and marries and has Effie. For some reason, possibly the death of both parents or the remarriage of one of the parents, she comes to live with the Beckett family.

Susan Beckett

One question is whether Susan Beckett is the same as Susan McMaster, daughter of George McMaster and Jane McMaster. If this were the case, that would mean that George Arthur McMaster would be Susan’s brother and it would make sense perhaps that he would live with her for a while.

I don’t have much information on Susan McMaster in my tree. I just have that she was born in Dromore, Sligo in 1841. I’m not sure where I got this information. It may actually not be right. Jean has that Susan Beckett was 19 in the 1851 Census:

The 1951 census wasn’t taken until 1852. So that would put this Susan Beckett’s birth at about 1833. This seems too early for her to be Susan McMaster, daughter of George and Jane McMaster. I have that George McMaster was born around 1820 and married Jane McMaster in 1839. Here is Jean’s photo of Susan McMaster Beckett:

Was Susan Beckett the Daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer?

Margaret Frazer McMaster was born about 1789. That means that in 1834, she would have been 45. This is not an impossible age to have a baby. Here are the known children I have of Margaret Frazer McMaster:

Jean asked me if any of her photos looked like any of my photos. I don’t have a photo of Fanny, my ancestor. Here is Jane in the middle of the photo:

Susan McMaster Beckett (from Jean):

I’m not good at comparing photos.

Under this scenario, if Susan was the younger sister of Jane McMaster Thompson, then George Arthur McMaster would be her nephew. My working theory is that Isabel McMaster is one of Jane’s sisters. That would make her Susan’s sister also. That doesn’t directly help us figure out who Effie was but it helps define who she may have been related to.

More On Effie

Effie was born in 1861 according to Jean. That means that she could not have been the daughter of Margaret Frazer McMaster who was born about 1789. Margaret would have been alive at Effie’s birth but would have been about 72 years old. Let’s assume that Susan McMaster was the Aunt of Effie. That would mean that Effie would be the daughter of one of Susan’s siblings. I’ll go through those quickly:

  • Jane McMaster b. 1816 – She had two families. The first by George McMaster. When she married her second Thompson husband, the children of the first marriage were sent out to different families. It is unlikely that Effie was a Thompson as that family seemed to stay together.
  • Mary Ann McMaster b. 1820 – She married in 1849 and had two children around 1864. She was taking in other family earlier. I don’t see any reason why she would give her daughter to a sister.
  • James McMaster b. 1822 – James was living in Michigan in 1861. I don’t see any reason why he would give a daughter to a sister in Canada.
  • Catherine McMaster b. 1827 – She was living in Wisconsin in 1861. I don’t see any reason why she would give a daughter to a sister in Canada.
  • Fanny McMaster b. 1829 – She is my ancestor and stayed in County Sligo. The records of baptisms were fairly good at this time. If Effie was a daughter of Fanny, I would probably already know that.

Any other candidates for parents of Effie?

  •  Isabel McMaster b. about 1827 – She would have been about 35 when Effie was born. Isabel was single  in 1861. If Isabel was Effie’s mother, she was either a single mother or got married quickly and had a baby the same year. However, in the 1871 Census, Isabel is not listed as married or widowed.
  • John McMaster b. about 1841 – I mention John in my previous Blog. He was living in the household of Mary Ann McMaster Shannon in 1852 along with Isabel. I don’t know much about this John. If he was Effie’s father, he would have been about 20 at the time of her birth. Also if the 1880 Census is correct, Effie’s father was born in Ontario. According to the 1851 Census, this John was born in Ireland.
  • Other – There may have been other descendants of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer living in Ontario that I don’t know about.

Based on the above, it appears that Isabel would be the best known candidate to be Effie’s mother.  That choice is followed by ‘other’. In fact, take another look at the 1871 Census:

Effie is listed directly under “Esibel”. Sometimes in a Census, this could indicate that Effie may be the child of the person directly above. It would be interesting to find out what happened to Isabel McMaster whether or not she was Effie’s mother. I think that if Isabel was Effie’s mother, it would answer more questions than it would raise. For example, if Isabel was Effie’s mother, then it is improbably that would become the family story. There would be another more palatable story made up. In this case, it appears that the story of  Effie’s parentage was borrowed from her Aunt’s parentage.

Based on Ontario Quaker records provided by Jean, the following six Becketts left the area by January 1, 1879:

One interesting point in the above minutes is that there is no mention of Effie. Why would Alfred’s children be mention and there be no mention of Effie? In addition, Alfred has another daughter Ruth who isn’t mentioned in the minutes.

Here is Alfred’s family in 1880:

Alfred continued to live next to his brother John in California.

An obituary for Alfred indicates that he was married to Mercy Ward in 1857:

Jean’s DNA

Jean doesn’t match me or my four siblings who have tested at AncestryDNA. If she uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch, she may see more DNA connections with other McMaster/Frazer descendants who tested at different companies. Jean tells me she matches Keith by DNA. I match Keith also and wrote a Blog about that match here.

I show as a 3rd cousin, once removed to Keith. Our common ancestor is Fanny McMaster. Of course, this gets confusing as Fanny married a McMaster. Assuming that Isabel is the mother of Effie and that Isabel is the sister of Fanny and Susan, one may see how Jean would be a DNA match to Keith. However, that is a lot of assuming.

Summary

  • I first made a connection with George A McMaster who was living in the household of Susan Beckett in 1861. I further identified him as the son of George McMaster and Jane McMaster born in Vaughan, Ontario in 1847. Jane McMaster was the daughter of my ancestors William McMaster and Margaret Frazer born around 1789.
  • From there, I made an assumption that Susan Beckett was the sister of Jane McMaster. I note that Jane also had her daughter Anna living with Jane’s sister Catherine McMaster Bennett based on the 1860 Census. Apparently the children of Jane’s first marriage were not welcomed by her second husband, so they were sent out to Jane’s sisters.
  • I then looked at possible McMaster parents for Effie Jean Beckett. By the process of elimination and based on the 1871 Census, it seemed like Isabel McMaster could be a candidate to be Effie’s mother. Isabel was in the right place at the right age.
  • If Jean uploads her AncestryDNA results to Gedmatch, it would be possible to check other matches that would give more evidence to support or detract from the Isabel McMaster theory.

 

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Frazer YDNA STRs Compared

Blaine Bettinger recently has started a project comparing STR differences to known relationships. It turns out in our Frazers of Roscommon DNA Project, we have four people who have tested where we know their relationships. Here are those relationships:

Rick has tested 67 STRs and Paul, Rodney and Jonathan have tested for the BigY 500. Here is how the numbers look:

Generally, what we see is that going from top to bottom, the further out the relationship is, the more differences there are in the STRs. The numbers between 0-5 above are the genetic differences. Then as the test gets higher there should be more differences going from left to right as more STRs are being tested.

Paul’s Odd Results

However, Paul’s number goes down when he is compared to Jonathan between the 111 STR test and the BigY 500 test. Why is that? My assumption is that the Big Y test missed one of the STRs tested in the 111 STR test. It should be possible to find this STR looking at the results.

DYS710

Checking Paul’s result, he has a different result from Rodney and Jonathan for marker DYS710. DYS710 is the first marker tested in the 111 STR test. Paul has 34 and Rodney and Jonathan have 33.

Here is Paul’s BigY STR result for DYS710:

Here is Jonathan’s result:

So that is not the answer. I can’t explain how FTDNA came up with a lower genetic distance for the BigY 500 STR results.

A Frazer STR Tree

Over a year ago, I came up with this tree:

This shows the genetic differences. It basically shows that there is a difference of three between the two Frazer lines of Archibald and James. In general, the two lines differ over DYS391 and CDY. At some point between Archibald Frazer of 1720 and James Frazer of 1804, there were two mutations that defined the Archibald Line from the original ancestral Frazer DNA. Then under the James branch of 1804, there are two branches. Rick’s branch is defined by DYS444 and Paul’s branch is defined by DYS576 being 19. However, we don’t know when these mutations occured. For Rick’s branch it could be anyone starting at Richard Patterson Frazer down to Rick. For Paul’s branch it could be anyone between Paul and George Frazer.

An Updated Frazer STR Tree with DYS710

However, the above Frazer STR tree doesn’t explain all the differences. Paul and Rodney have a difference of 5 STRs at 111 markers. I need to add in DYS710. Recall that Paul had a value of 34 for DYS710 and Rodney and Jonatham had 33. But which is ancestral? Or which came first?

The last time I looked for ancestral STRs, I looked at the Frazers more distant relatives: the Grants and Stuarts:

Note that their SNP is R-YP6488. FTDNA now has a block tree:

This block tree was taken from Jonathan’s perspective. However, it shows that R-YP6488 represented by matches with Grant and Stuart is an older SNP. Hayes is from an even older group represented by SNP R-YP6479. I had originally thought that 33 was the older STR for DYS710 but Stuart has a value of 34. Hayes would make a good tie-breaker but he only tested out to 67 STRs.

Checking YFull

Perhaps Hayes has uploaded his results to YFull.

Under Paul’s distant STR matches I see someone who shows as R-YP6479. This is likely Hayes. However, it doesn’t tell me what his value was for DYS710.

Back to the Updated Frazer STR Tree

Assuming that there were no parallel mutations, I’ll try this:

This shows a value of 34 for DYS710 as ancestral. Then on the James line, somewhere between James and Thomas Henry Frazer DYS710 changed from 34 to 33. That means that at least the Thomas Henry Frazer branch is characterized by a value of 33 for for DYS710.

In order to check my tree, I look at Paul and Rodney:

They have a Genetic DIstance (GD) of 5 at 111 STRs. Looking at the tree, we see that the STR differences add up to 5.

  • The Archibald Line has 381 = 11 and CDY = 35-40
  • The George McMaster branch has 576 = 19
  • The James Line has DYS710 = 33
  • The William Frazer branch has 552 = 24

The Mystery of Paul and Jonathan Solved

I posted my question to the Genetic Genealogy – Tips & Techniques Facebook Page. Skip tells me that the 3 of 425 differences are additional differences. That adds up to 7 of 536 STRs. That leads to this observation. Rodney and Jonathan have a GD of 2 of 427. Paul has a GD o f 3 of 425 with Jonathan and 5 of 415 with Rodney. That seems to indicate, if my logic is right, that the extra two mutations are on Rodney’s side.

A BIgY 500 Frazer STR Tree

This leads to another change in the Frazer STR tree. In order to find the GDs between Rodney and Jonathan, I downloaded all the results. These appear to be the two extra differences:

These were on Lines 425 and 475 of my Excel Spreadsheet. This shows that the mutations belong to Rodney. The mismatch column was just to point out any differences between Jonathan’s and Rodney’s STR results.

Here I ran out of room to describe Rodney’s branch at the top of his branch, so the extra descriptors went on the bottom. Keep in mind that STRs can mutate up or down in number. These last two mutations that Rodney had went down in number. In fact, it appears that all the STR mutations on the James Line are going down.

Any Other STR Differences?

Yes. There are a few more differences between the Archibald and James Branches of the Frazers:

Here, Paul represents the Archibald Line and Jonathan and Rodney represent the James Line. Unfortunately, as the newer STR results are not posted on-line, I would not know how to figure out which values are ancestral and which are the newer values.

The Big Picture: SNPs and Haplogroups

The Big Picture is that our Frazers have the haplogroup of R1a:

Most Frazers in general are R1b and not even closely related by DNA. However, before Frazers became Frazers, some of our Scandinavian R1a’s made their way to Scotland and became Frazers when the R1b Frazers were also becoming Frazers.

The R1a Tree

Here is an outdated R1a Tree. It is still nice as it has images on it:

Here is another shot of our Frazer Block Tree:

The trick is connecting the two trees. The Block tree listing at the top mentions R-M198. The “picture’ tree has that at about 6,000 BC, so that is a start.

R-M417 shows as 4800 BC on the picture tree. Next is R-CTS4385:

This shows that before our Frazers were Scots, they were Germanic. Next were the L664 Group:

Our L664 ancestors entered the scene about around 3,000 BC. They still have plenty of time to make it to Scotland. They could have hopped over to England around then, but likely made their way up to Western Scandinavia first.

From there, our ancestors kept branching as families do:

That brings us down to the bottom of the picture chart. S2880. S2880 is right above R-YP432 where the Frazer Block Chart starts:

This shows flags. My interpretation is that during the time of R-YP432 our ancestors were living in Scandinavia. The flag on the right that connects to YP432 is the Swedish flag.

The YFull YTree dates YP432 at 3100 years before present.

Between looking at the Block Tree, the YTree and the R1a Administrator’s Tree, it could be that our ancestors could have made their way to Scotland around the time of Christ. At the time the Frazer Clan was formed, our ancestors were in the area of what is now Inverness, Scotland.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Getting data to a project which compares YDNA STR matches to known relationships gave me a chance to look at our Frazer YDNA STR matches.
  • This lead to a better understanding of what the BigY 500 STR results mean.
  • For the four people who have taken the YDNA test and especially the three Frazers who have taken the Big Y test, I was able to refine the YDNA differences between the different lines and branches.
  • After that I gave a rough overview of how our Frazer ancestors made their way to Scotland from Scandinavia perhaps around the time of Christ.
  • Based on the YTree and other DNA sources, our own Frazer branch of R-YP6489 began around the early 1300’s, but our common ancestor in that branch was from the early 1600’s.

 

 

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Updates to Butler YDNA

I see my last Blog on Butler YDNA was about a year ago.  A little or a lot can happen in a year. Turns out some things have happened.

Three Big Y Testers: 2 Butlers and a Batt

There are three Big Y testers that show that they have a common ancestor in the past 700 years. Here is the simplest way to show how these three are related:

Note that while Batt’s SNP is I-Y238315, I didn’t put Batt in that box. That is because Batt and Butler both descend from I-128315. In other words, Butler does not descend from Batt, but both names descend from a common ancestor. This shows that the three testers have a common ancestor who was born 700 years ago. This also shows that the two Butlers who have tested for the Big Y have a common (likely Butler) ancestor from about 225 years ago. Here is how the YTree shows it:

These are the dates that I didn’t have as of my previous Blog. Previously, we were just up to 700 years ago. This new information thanks to the new Big Y Butler tester brings us 475 years closer to the present date.

However, there is a catch to these dates.

SNPs Vs. STRs

The above trees are based on SNPs. FTDNA also tests for STRs. The STRs show that Batt is more closely related to my late father in law Richard Butler than to the other Butler. So which is right? Whenever there is a conflict between SNPs and STRs, SNPs are always right.

Here is how my father in law Richard matches Batt and the other Butler by STRs:

Based on STRs, it looks like Batt is a closer match than Butler. However, by SNPs my father in law matches Batt 700 years ago and Butler 225 years ago. This is due to the variability of STRs or back mutations. Also the Butler above could have had more STR mutations than usual and/or the 225 year estimate for common Butler ancestors could be on the low side

A New Butler STR Match

I was notified recently that there was a new Bulter 37 STR match. That is good news. Also this Butler has ancestors from County Wexford. Peter, who has been researching Butlers feels that Wexford is a likely origin for the Butlers. Here is my father in law’s match list at the 37 STR level:

The new Butler match at the top is a perfect match with my father in law at the 37 level. However, that could change as more STRs are tested. My guess is that the three Butlers on the list are I-Y128364 and the non-Butlers on the list are not. Also notice that the first two Butlers matching my father in law have Wexford roots.

Here is a partial map of Wexford:

I believe that my father in law’s family came from County Kilkenny just North of Waterford. However the distance from that area to Wexford is not far. At any rate, this new YDNA Butler match seems to suggest that a common Butler ancestor could be from Wexford.

What’s Next?

The new Butler match may want to take an Autosomal DNA test. This could be done at FTDNA or at AncestryDNA. The advantage of AncestryDNA is that they have more people who have taken that test. That means a bigger chance of finding matches. The DNA matches will be looking for genealogical connections. The new match could do further YDNA testing, but that is a bit more expensive than the autosomal DNA test.

 

 

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Penny’s Frazer ThruLines

My last Blog on Penny is here. That was prior to ThruLines. I also wrote a Blog on Penny’s sister Toni here. Toni’s DNA is not linked to her tree, so she does not have ThruLines.

Penny’s Genealogy

Penny is in red in the lower left. She descends for William Fitzgerald Frazer. This tree is based on research by Frazer researcher, Joanna.

William Fitzgerald Frazer Born 1821 Ireland

I am interested in William Fitzgerald Frazer:

Penny mentions a biography in her Ancestry Tree:

This was from An illustrated history of Sacramento County, California. Containing a history of Sacramento County from the earliest period of its occupancy to the present time published in 1890. Penny further gives this chronology for William:

This raises questions as to the mother of the first three children. Penny also mentions another daughter Angelina G Frazer as mentioned in William’s will. She is named as Angeline G Law. That gives a hint:

In 1911, Angelina is listed as Gracella. I assume that was her middle name:

This puts William Fitzgerald in Leitrim in the 1840’s. Here is another interesting record:

In this record Angelina “Gracenda” is listed as Augustine. Here is Angelina’s wedding publication from 1872 – not long after her father’s divorce:

This more specifically puts William in Drumkeerin:

That means that William Fitzgerald Frazer lived in Drumkeeran. He had Angelina Gracenda around 1843. His second daughter appears to have been Mary Ann Frazer. Penny has her born in 1844.

Mary Ann Frazer

Mary Ann married in 1864:

About a year later, these two were living in Poughkeepsie, New York:

Thomas Quinton may be William’s father. Margaret Frazier is Mary A’s sister. Poughkeepsie is on the Hudson River:

How Can the DNA Help Us?

Right now on the James side of the Frazer Tree, descendants have been placed into two main branches:

There is an Archibald Branch on the left where Penny is. There is a Michael Branch on the right. There is an Elizabeth branch in the middle also. However, her daughter Catherine Knott married Archibald believed to be the son of Michael on the right side. We can use the DNA matches to test the genealogies above. First, I try to see if the DNA supports that the people within the box on the left match each other. Then I see if they match the people in the box on the right at the appropriate levels.

Penny’s ThruLines

Penny’s first cousin level ThruLines are good:

89% of the time Penelope’s match with Pamela should be a 1st cousin once removed or similar relationship:

Penny’s ThruLines with William Fitzgerald Frazer

At Penny’s Frazer great grandparent level there are no new ThruLines. There are some at the 2nd great-grandparent level:

These matches are from the descendants of Mary Ann Frazer. I’ll start a chart for Penn y:

Penny and Frazer Third Great-grandfather ThruLines

This part goes beyond Penny’s Ancestry Tree to work that Frazer reasearcher Joanna has done:

Here there are 7 matches to Penny on the Thomas Henry Frazer Line. Joanna has that Thomas Henry Frazer was born in Drumkeerin, so there is that connection. Joanna is on the Edward F Frazer Branch. I should point out that Penny has no matches on the Edward Wynn Branch:

Edward Wynn is the brother in the middle group above.

Penny’s Distant ThruLines

When I put the common ancestor up two more generations to James Frazer born about 1720, I pick up two additional matches for Penny:

These two matches were recently added under Michael to explain DNA matches. It would make sense that Penny could match these two, as the theory is that Mary married William Frazer:

Adding Penny’s ThruLines to Madeline’s and Charlotte’s

Although Penny doesn’t share any ThruLine matches with Madeline and Charlotte, they both match some of the same matches as shown in blue below:

I think that Charlotte’s match to JS above is really Janet. The question is: if Penny, Charlotte and Madeline have many of the same ThruLines, then why doesn’t Penny match Charlotte and Madeline? I suppose there could be many explanations:

  • The common ancestor is Archibald born 1792. Charlotte and Madeline may be related on the Archibald side and Penny may be related on Archibald’s wife’s side. That would result in Penny not matching Charlotte and Madeline.
  • Another variation of that is that Archibald may have had more than one wife. Penny may descend from one wife and Charlotte and Madeline from another.
  • It may be that we have the genealogy wrong.
  • There may be other connections on collateral lines.

Adding In Joanna

If I add in Joanna to the mix, I’ll have representatives from the three brothers:

 

These are William Fitzgerald, Edward Wynn Frazer and Thomas Henry Frazer (Joanna’s great-grandfather). Here is a partial list of Joanna’s ThruLines:

I’m more interested in the matches at the third cousin level. Here we have the two brothers plus Ann. The third brother doesn’t show here as he shows at the 2nd cousin level for Joanna. For some reason, the ThruLines seemed to skip a generationbetween William Fitzgerald 1821 and Minnie Jane born 1895. I have written quite a bit about the McPartland Branch. They have the Ancestor Ann Frazer who has been difficult to place. Joanna has made a guess that she was the daughter of her 2nd great-grandfather Archibald born 1792. I have been going back and forth as to whether Ann should be under Archibald or Michael Frazer.

Another interesting point is that Edward Archibald born 1867 ended up in Poughkeepsie, NY where Mary A Frazer Quinton and Margaret Jane Frazer lived in 1855. I don’t know if this is a coincidence or not.

I see that Joanna matches WG. WG is on the Edward Wynn Branch where Madeline and Charlotte are. Joanna has a good match with WG but Madeline and Charlotte do not. This may be a coincidence, but I would keep my eye on this situation. For Charlotte and Madeline the level that they match WG indicates a second cousin once removed only <1% of the time:

I added WG into the tree here:

Joanna and James of Clerragh

I didn’t see any additional ThruLines for Joanna at her Archibald/Peyton level. However, there are some new ones at the level of James of Clerragh:

The odd thing with this ThruLine is that Archibald born 1690 who is usally the father of James of Clerragh is shown as James’ son. However, the relationship shown is correct at 2nd cousin once removed.

When I add the results in with the others, I get this:

Those are a lot of numbers to look at. Basically:

  • Penny had no ThruLine matches at her 2nd cousin level.
  • Joanna shows good match levels at the 2nd cousin level. That is, except with Chris
  • Madeline and Charlotte show poor 2nd cousin match levels. However, the matches are just with one person. Perhaps there are not many descendants on this line who have had their DNA tested.
  • At the third cousin level out of all the matches, there are no perfect scores. I am not sure why that is. If I add up all the percentages for the relationships and divide by the top percentages in the third cousin range, I get 42%. As these ThruLines are somewhat new, I don’t know how usual or unusual that is. The results seem anemic to me. It is as if Archibald Frazer had each of his sons by different wives.

Here are the rest of the results:

At the fourth cousin level, Penny has matches with the Thomas Henry Branch, but not the Edward Wynn Branch.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Looking back at my Blog on Penny’s sister Toni, it appears that Toni had better Frazer matches. However, Toni has not linked her DNA to her Ancestry Tree and therefor does not show up on ThruLines.
  • If Toni links her DNA to her Ancestry Tree, we should get a fuller picture of the situation.
  • I had fun getting a better understanding of Penny and Toni’s genealogy.
  • Perhaps as a result of Penny’s less than average matches on the Frazer side, the DNA matches looked a bit anemic.
  • However, having said that, at the third cousin level there are a lot of matches under Archibald Frazer born in 1792. However, they appear to be all less than perfect matches, with only one match that I see that is above average. That is the match between Charlotte and Gail at 97 cM.