A Look at Kathy’s Frazer ThruLines

In this Blog, I’d like to look at Kathy’s ThruLines. Kathy is in the Frazer DNA project. Actually I’ll be looking at her mom’s and her Aunt’s ThruLines. Here is a combined DNA/genealogy tree:

Kathy is in the 4th row. Kathy is in the James Line of the Frazer Project. James is one level above that which is shown above.

Kathy’s Mom Charlotte

Here is Charlotte’s ThruLine based on her great-grandfather Edward Wynn Frazer:

Charlotte has four DNA matches shown below her mother, but those matches would be with close relatives such as daughter, niece, nephew and sister. It would have been nice if there were a first cousin match – someone descending from Minnie Frazer. That way we could walk the DNA matches up. Sort of like a chain of evidence.

Edward Wynn Frazer

On the Edward Wynn Frazer, Charlotte matches WG:

Charlotte has a match with WG, but not a great one. I’ll start a table for Charlotte:

The <1% is not very good. According to AncestryDNA 2nd cousins once removed share 19 cM less than one percent of the time.  This is likely a red flag issue. In my Blog for Joanna, she also had a <1% match with a 2nd cousin once removed. This would make me want to check WG’s tree. However, his mother is private. I would have to check the tree starting at WG’s maternal grandfather who is listed as William Archibald Frazer. Here is William A in Poughkeepsie in 1910 at age 5:

Here is Poughkeepsie:

I’ll assume that WG has his grandfather correct in his tree. In 1920, William’s father decided that his parents were really born in Scotland and England:

A clue is that the oldest daughter is Mena, transcribed as Ismerie in the 1920 Census.

On to Edward Frazer Born About 1870

This looks to be Edward’s grave stone:

A child Phibbs may be another hint. Here is some more information from Find A Grave:

A father is missing for Edward and his son William A Frazer is missing for some reason.

Here is Edward in 1900:

He is naturalized, arrived in 1886, and married in 1897. Here we have a differnet rendition of their first daughter Ismena. This matches with the Ismena Jane White Frazer from Find A Grave.

Here is a possible birth record for Edward:

Many trees for Edward have him born in County Leitrim, Ireland including Kathy’s Tree. Here is another record for Edward in Ballina:

Here is Edward’s marriage record from St. Paul’s in Poughkeepsie:

Here are the parents:

Unfortunately, Edward was transcribed as a Frager in the Ancestry records.

It seems like all roads lead to Edward and Ismena Frazer. Here is Kathy’s tree for Charlotte’s mother:


A Quick Look at Minnie (Mary) Frazer Born 1865

The goal here is to match up Minnie with Edward. Here is Minnie in 1900 in Stonington, CT:

According to this record, Minnie was born in Ireland in November 1865. She came to the us in 1888. She married about 1895 and had two children in Rhode Island. Then they moved to Stonington, CT. Stonington is just over the line from Rhode Island:

On the next page of the Census we see that Minnie’s mother Emma J. Frazier was also living with them. She was born February 1838 and came to the US in 1893. She had six children and five were still living. It looks like she had been married for 37 years. The census says her husband was still alive. That means that Emma married in 1863 if I’m reading the Census correctly.

That means that this record is a good match:

Emma  or Ismena J Frazer Born February 1838

Here is Ismenia J Frazer in 1910 in Stonington, CT living with Minnie:

Here is a 1915 NY Census for 202 South Ave, Poughkeepsie:

Here is an Ismenia Frazer who is staying with the Cline family in Poughkeepsie. She is from Ireland and has been in the US since 1889. Perhaps this is the connection? At 75, she would have been born in 1840. The problem is that I don’t recognize the other people in the house. If she is living in Poughkeepsie, why wasn’t she staying with her son Edward A Frazer?

Edward Frazer was living at Linwood Ave, Poughkeepsie in 1920:

That is very close to 202 South Avenue. This shows to me a connection between Edward’s family of Poughkeepsie, NY and Minnie’s family of Stonington, CT. It doesn’t prove that Ismenia was the parents of Both Edward and Minnie, but it suggests that she was.

Bringing Charlotte Up the Frazer Tree to Archibald Born 1792

Quite quickly, Charlotte is back to the 1700’s with her 2nd great grandfather Archibald Frazer:

With Charlotte’s connection to Edward Wynne Frazer through her cousin WG, the DNA looked sketchy. There was less than 1% chance that the DNA match could be accurate. However, going up one level, Charlotte has many more matches to descendants of Edward Wynne Frazer’s two brothers William Fitzgerald and Thomas Henry.

Charlotte and the William Fitzgerald Branch

William Fitzgerald was the older brother, so we’ll start with him:

I was just looking at a grave marker for William Fitzgerald:

This William was a busy man and made his way from Ireland to Sacramento, CA. Here are the DNA results on the Whitten Branch:

I would be interested to see how WG matches MP and Pamela, but I don’t have access to those results. Somehow, the DNA perked back up in a further out generation.

Charlotte and the Thomas Henry Branch

I like how this branch has DNA matches on three different sons of Thomas Henry Frazer. I get confused sometimes because as I understand it, William Sarsfield was originally William Fitzgerald and he decided to change his name. I’m getting lazy now and not checking the genealogy.

Here is the summary I have:

I’ll add these matches to my Chart:

The orange-colored matches are in Ancestry but haven’t uploaded their DNA results to Gedmatch for comparison. The green line is a family that I’m not quite sure where they belong on the chart. In my DNA chart, Gail has the highest match to Charlotte by far. In fact, the top 40% mentioned would have her at 2nd cousin once removed. That means she matches more than is likely rather than less.

Up One Level to Archibald Frazer Born 1751

Charlotte has only one match here, but it is on an interesting Branch. That is the Edward Frazer Branch. I have to be careful, as I think I accepted the wrong genealogy last time. On Joanna’s matching branch there was a line with an Edward Wynn Frazer who died as a bachelor. Obviously, if you have an ancestor with no children, you have a problem. However, I didn’t see Edward Wynn Frazer in this tree:

This tree is stitched together, but I am assuming that it is correct. It appears that the Private 3rd cousin 1x removed was our famous Frazer cousin Maureen O’Sullivan:

That gives another person on Prudence’s lonely line on the right below:

This match that Charlotte has with Brittney is also a little larger than expected. AncestryDNA uses a cutoff of 20 cM for a fourth cousin and Britney is a fourth cousin, once removed to Charlotte.

Next Level: To the Top of the James Line

This next level will bring Charlotte over to the Michael Frazer Line. He was the brother of the Archibald we just looked at.

Charlotte has 3 matches on the Michael Frazer Line and 14 on the Archibald Line. If it were the other way around, we might wonder if Charlotte really belonged in the Michael Line. However, having said that, there are about three times as many DNA-tested descendants on the Archibald side compared to the Michael side.

Here are Charlotte’s three matches:

It is sort of like two matches because two matches are parent and child.

Charlotte gets her first perfect scores with BV and Bonnie with a 33 out of 33%. A few notes:

  • Charlotte matches Cheryl at a slightly level than her mother BV. This happens sometimes and is normal.
  • Charlotte only gets a score of 5% for her match with SH but gets a 32% with her sibling Gail. I will assume that these two are full siblings. This shows the variation that is possible in DNA.
  • We can’t say that Charlotte is not a 2nd cousin once removed to WG at 19 cM. There are reported values of 0-316 cM and a typical value is 123cM. However, the relationship comes under more scrutiny at this level.
  • Overall, I would say that Charlotte’s matches make sense. It looks like once you get to the 5th cousin level, if you have any sort of a match under 20 cM, Ancestry says that it is pretty good.

Kathy’s Aunt Madeline

Next we’ll look at Kathy’s mother’s sister Madeline to see how the numbers compare. As Madeline is a sister of Charlotte, I would expect many of the same results. Like Charlotte, Madeline has no ThruLines for her grandmother Minnie Frazer and one for her great-grandfather Edward Wynn Frazer. However, the match is smaller than Charlotte had:

I also added in Madeline’s other matches while I was at it.

I’m beginning to see how AncestryDNA does it’s top percentages. Gail, with a 97 cM gets a top match percentage of 40. As I recall, that top 40% was if Charlotte and Gail were 2nd cousins once removed. That means with a larger match there is more certainty. When Ancestry’s top percentage is at 27%, the match levels are just above 20 cM. Ancestry uses 20 cM as the threshold for a 4th cousin. However, the results just above 20 are somewhat ambiguous. Below the 20%, Ancesty is more sure that the results will be in the 5th cousin range, so the top percentage goes up a bit to 33%.

Here is the same chart sorted by relationship:

  • The problem match is at the top. It would be good to have more 2nd cousin matches to compare.
  • There are not many 4th cousin matches, but that is a result of the genealogy. It appears that there aren’t as many people in that Edward Frazer Line – at least not many that have had their DNA tested.
  • In general the likelihood of the matches representing the relationship go from low to high as the relationships get further out. The one exception is Charlotte’s match with Gail. I take that to be unusual based on the other matches and with Gail’s match with Charlotte’s sister Madeline.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Like Joanna’s Thrulines, Kathy’s mom and Aunt had a match with a 2nd cousin once removed that had a very low probability of <1%.
  • I took a quick look at some of the genealogy between Kathy’s descent from Edward Wynne Frazer and her low probability match’s descent from Edward Wynne Frazer. I found a connection between them and the wife of Edward Wynne Frazer who was Ismenia or Ismena [Jane?] Whtie Frazer. She appears to visit her daughter on Kathy’s side in Stonington, CT and her son on the DNA match’s side in Poughkeepsie, NY.
  • Kathy’s mom and Aunt had a lot of DNA matches in the 3rd cousin range.
  • Kathy’s mom and Aunt had an interesting match with a granddaughter of Maureen O’Sullivan at the 4th cousin level
  • I am still gaining experience with the ThruLines. I have noted a general rise in probability of matching from the 3rd to 5th cousin levels. At least in these James Frazer Lines so far.
  • I expanded my James Frazer DNA Chart to include those matches on ThruLines. This fills in a lot of the blanks.

2 Replies to “A Look at Kathy’s Frazer ThruLines”

  1. ‘.. descendant of .. Minnie Frazer. That way we could walk the DNA matches up. Sort of like a chain of evidence.’ There are on MyHertitage !

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