ThruLines – Hartley DNA & Genealogy

June 10, 2026June 11, 2026

Investigating a New Frazer Theory at Ancestry

Recently, while looking for another match, I saw that my sister Sharon had a potential Frazer common ancestry with a DNA match:

My job is to evaluate the connection to see if it is likely or not.

The Philip Frazer line is important to me as I believe that I descend from Philip Frazer. I can’t prove it, but by naming patterns and process of elimination, I have come to believe that as the best Frazer genealogical theory.

I have built a Philip Frazer DNA tree:

It looks like I cut a bit off of the tree:

Basically, there were two Frazer brothers from County Roscommon. They were Archibald and James. The lived in the 1700’s. I descend from the elder brother Archibald. Actually I descend from both, but more directly from the Archibald Line. Archibald is believed to have had four sons: John, Philip, Richard, and Archibald. As mentioned, I think I descend from Philip.

I see that my sister Sharon’s DNA match David supposedly descends from Philip and George James Frazer. I am asked to evaluate George James. That means that even though he is on my DNA tree, he must not be in the Ancestry Tree. This is what my tree shows:

I also am missing a birth and death date for Philip Frazer son of Philip Frazer. One problem is this document:

This shows one Philip being married twice or perhaps two Philips marrying. I assume that the first Philip is the elder Philip marrying for a second time and the second marriage is for the son Philip marrying. Assuming that to be the case, I should change my tree. Of course the younger Philip could have married Jane Johnston first and the elder could have married Mary Taylor second. I see from my tree above, that the younger Philip’s first daughter appears to be Jane Frazer and she could have been named for her mother Jane Johnston. However, the first daughter should have been named for the mother’s mother which I do not think is known. I’ll just switch my tree to have the younger Philip married to Mary Taylor.

Now I have this situation:

Assuming the elder Philip was still alive, and that the younger Philip was either not very young when he married or was older than I think, I’ll say the elder Philip married Jane Johnston as his second wife and had Jane Frazer as a daughter.

Now I need to put Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor as being born around 1800.

Now it would make sense if Philip had a son named George James as his two brothers had those names (assuming my tree is right). I see that I have a Blog that mentions George James Frazer from 2020.

In that Blog, Sharon had a match with LS. I see that LS also appears as a shared match between Sharon and David. I think that if I can validate David’s tree back to George James Frazer, I should be all set. Here is David’s tree:

Here is the photo David has of George James Frazer:

If my Frazer DNA tree is correct, he should be the first cousin of George William Frazer, my 2nd great-grandfather.

Of course, I am not very sure how much I look like my first cousins. At least his tie looks the same! My relative in Ireland said someone scribbled on my 2nd great-grandfather’s face. So that doesn’t help either.

My 2nd great-grandfather George William Frazer was born about 1838 and his first cousin George James Frazer was born in 1841. They both appear to be named for their Uncle George Frazer who died in 1831.

Evaluating David’s Tree

I like the chances of David linking up, so I will put him into my tree as a floating tree. That means not connected to my major tree. If I agree with Ancestry’s proposed common ancestor for us, then I will connect the two trees. I also find it encouraging that David’s tree has George James Frazer born in Sligo, Ireland:

David’s father should be easy to find as he was born in 1929 in the US. Here is the 1940 Census with David’s father and grandfather:

David’s grandfather was an accountant with an insurance business.

James Alexander Fraser, Sr.

Here is William in the 1881 Census for Woodstock, Ontario:

Unfortunately, the father’s initials only are given. They should be G.J. for George James but are transcribed as G.B. In 1891, the father is more clearly G.J.:

G.J. works at the inland home? office:

According to AI:

Common occupations and roles from that era containing “inland” include:

- Inland Revenue Officer: Government officials responsible for collecting excise duties, inspecting distilleries, and regulating weights and measures.

William’s birth record gives better information about his parents:

This gets me as far as David’s tree:

Philip Fraser in green above has a proposed birth date of 1815. That does not fit in well assuming that Philip married in 1822.

George’s birth date is given on a civil service list:

I believe that George was baptized in the Kilmactranny Parish in Sligo as that church is missing about a 10 year period of records from 1842 going back about 10 years. The 1881 Census shows that Philip was likely the first son of George James. By tradition, this could mean that George’s father was also Philip.

Here is George in 1861:

The fact that the name George is passed down seems to support this family structure:

However, I do not know where my 2nd great-grandfather got his middle name William from. Was there another brother named William or was this name from the mother’s side? There was supposedly a William who was the son of John Frazer (the elder Philip’s brother) who went to the US.

Connecting George James Frazer to My Ancestry Tree

I put George James’ father as Philip Frazer born about 1800. This also shows in my sister Sharon’s ThruLines now:

It looks like I have not attached Ann to Philip in my tree, so I need to do that also.

Updating My Frazer DNA Tree

It looks like I just need to add David:

One interesting thing about David is that he is a generation up from my other matches on the Philip Line. That means that he is my fourth cousin once removed rather than a 5th cousin.

Clustering Sharon and David

I created a custom cluster between Sharon and David and looked for mathes between 20 and 100 cM.

The first cluster had only three DNA matches:

Geraldine has no tree at Ancestry. Based on shared matches, Geraldine is LS’ half sister or Aunt.

Here is the next Cluster:

We already know about Geraldine, LS, and David. I am interested in YK. YK”s maternal side goes to Ramsey or Ramsay from Canada:

Just looking at the Cluster above, I see that LS and David are from the Philip . However, MY at the bottom of the cluster is also and probably Geraldine and YK at the top.

From memory, MY is actually Richard or Barry. But where is Jeanette? Perhaps she was a match to someone else, or matches at less than the 20 cM required to be in the cluster.

I was hoping that the Cluster would mirror what I have on my Philip Line DNA Tree:

Where:

Green is Philip to Philip
Yellow is Philip to James (and Violet Frazer) to Richard Frazer
Periwincle is Philip to James and Violet Frazer to James Archibald Frazer (my second great-grandfather)

However, in the second cluster above, I don’t see anyone from the yellow group. Perhaps I will make a guess why later.

It is interesting that Keith is in the Cluster as he is related on the McMaster side:

However, Fanny’s mother was also a Frazer from a different line. So it gets complicated. This could be the reason that the Richard Frazer Line is not included in the cluster. Or it could be that that the elder Philip married a McMaster which would put more McMasters in the Cluster to match. I’m not sure.

So in the Cluster above, I have accounted for two lines but not the Richard Frazer line. Also there are some that I do not know for sure how they fit in:

Shelly
Diane
Charles, and
Tim

The Final Cluster

This cluster is similar to the previous one with a large defineable James Archibald Frazer cluster. It seems like more could be done with these clusters as far as trying to track down the genealogy of the matches, but I am done for now.

More on Sharon’s Philip Frazer DNA

Sharon seems to be my only sibling tested at Ancestry who has a good match showing common ancestors with Philip Frazer of the 1700’s. Here is Sharon’s DNA Painter Profile:

Sharon has matches with Barry on the right side of her Chromosomes 14 and 15.

Here is Sharon’s DNA mapped out for Chromosome 14 mapped out with all her siblings:

Jim has all Chromosome 14 as Frazer, but he did not test at Ancestry. Sharon’s match numbers are here:

They are roughly 79-96 million. It looks like Lori should have Frazer DNA up to 96 also. So I wonder why Lori does not show as a match to David at Ancestry.

Here is Chromosome 15:

Here Sharon has a full dose of paternal Frazer DNA. Jim has nearly a full dose of Frazer DNA on his paternal side.

Sharon at Gedmatch

Barry is at Gedmatch and Raymond is a shared match between Sharon and Barry:

I will map that onto Sharon’s map. Here is Raymond:

Raymond also identifies part of Sharon X Chromosome:

The blue paternal first match is from Raymond’s sister. The second one is from Raymond. I have identified this DNA as from Margaret Mcmaster due to the way the X Chromosome is inherited.

Sharon got an X Chromosome from her dad. He got it from his Frazer Grandmother. She got her X Chromosome from her father James Archibald Frazer and he got one X Chromosome from his mother Margaret McMaster.

Summary and Conclusions

David was a good match who appears to connect with my 1700’s ancestor Philip Frazer
I looked at clusters between my sister Sharon and David
Those clusters showed a small Philip Line cluster and a cluster from my 2nd great-grandfather’s line.
I was a little surprised there was not more of a cluster from the Richard Frazer line. He was the brother of my 2nd great-grandfather George William Frazer.
More work could be done with working on the geneaolgies of some of the unidentified matches in the David/Sharon Cluster.
I made some guesses why there was not a Richard Frazer Cluster.My ancestor George married Margaret McMcaster. Someone in David’s Philip line may have married a McMaster. In addition, Margaret’s mother was Fanny McMaster. Fanny’s mother was a Frazer. This could account for the George Cluster and lack of a Richard Cluster.
I was also able to improve my FrazerTree at Ancestry.

May 17, 2026May 17, 2026

Butler DNA and the 1880 Census

I have been having a good working relationship with my wife’s niece Tina. She has been enthusiastically looking at the Butler genealogy that I have been looking at for many years. Before me, my wife’s Aunt Lorraine has been looking at the genealogy. Unfortunately, she had picked one of the wrong Edward Butlers’ death records which threw me off the track for many years. Tina picked up on the mistake which has helped a lot.

The 1880 Census

As I mentioned in my previous Blog, Tina also found the Butler familly in the 1880 Census. I had them in the 1860 and 1870 Census in Cincinnati. I had them in the Boston areas based on City Directories, but I could not find the family. Tina found them transcribed as Edward Butter and family. Here are the parents at the bottom of the page listed at Friend Street, Boston:

I am sure I have walked down Friend Street near North Station many times and not realized my wife’s 2nd great-grandfather and family lived there.

Tina has questions about the two sons in the 1880 Census:

I believe that both sons were born in the Chicago, Illinois area as shown on the marriage and death records. However, we have not been able to find their birth records. Assuming they were both born in Illinois and the parents should show as the father born in Ireland and the mother born in N.B. (New Brunswick). However, that is not the case.

The elder son George shows that he was born in Illinois and that his father and mother wAunere born in Ireland where the mother should be born in New Brunswick.
Son #2, Edward shows as born in New Brunswick where he should show Illinois and his parents are shown correctly as being from Ireland and New Brunswick.

To me, that was a simple slip up by the enumerator. Tina, however, feels that this means that the two sons had a different mother. And that Edward was indeed born in New Brunswick. She seemed to think that her DNA results corroborated this view as she shows as a 1/2 third cousin to a George Butler Descendant.

Edward and George Butler DNA

It should be easy to look at matches between the Edward Butler and George Butler descendants to see if this is the case. I have in the past taken DNA samples of my wife’s two Aunts: Lorraine and Suzy. Ancestry gives ranges of likely relationships given the DNA matches. I can put those matches into a spreadsheet and see what comes out. I also have access to my wife’s DNA results.

Aunt Lorraine

Aunt Lorraine has 7 matches to known descendants of George Butler:

Here are the first three matches:

These all show as 1/2 relationships which seems to support Tina’s theory, but that often happens when Ancestry is unsure of relationships. I do not take these literally in most cases.

Here is the relationship to H.O:

Here is a predictor from the Shared cM Project 4.0:

Here I have highlighted what I think the relationship should be and what Tina thinks it is. This first match supports the 1/2 2C1R. One for Tina!

Another interesting thing is that Ancestry has 25% of a 1/2 relationship and a 7% chance of a full relationship whereas the Shared cM Project Relationship predictor has 12% and 4% respectively. For my spreadsheet, I used the Shared cM Project Relationship Predictor as it was easier to use.

Here is my spreadsheet:

By the time I fill it all in, I should know if the DNA is saying that George and Edward were full brothers or half brothers.

Here is the Lorraine filled in for what she has a ThruLines:

I plugged in the predicted relationship as above and where the 1/2 relationship was more likely than the full relationship, I chose that. This was the case for all of Lorraine’s ThruLine matches. There are other matches, but these are the matches with trees. This matches with what Tina says she is seeing with her DNA results. This makes me more convinced with what Tina is saying but not completely yet until I look at Suzy and Marie. Lorraine may have inherited less of the George side DNA for some reason.

Aunt Suzy AKA Virginia

Aunt Suzy also has 7 matches to the George H Butler side:

However, her matches are much larger. Now the tables have turned:

For H.O. and Suzy, there is a 50% chance they have a 2C1R relationship and 7% chance of a half 2C1R relationship.

The results are not totally convincing for Aunt Suzy:

More matches suggest the full relationship, but Lorraine’s result strongly favor the 1/2 relationship. One thing the chart does not represent is how strongly the match favors a half or full relationship. However, that would be more difficult to show and evaluate. For example in Lorrine’s example with H.O., the half relationship was only 12% likely and and the full relationship was 4% likely. I do not know how that compares with Suzy and H.O. where the full relationship was 50% likely and the 1/2 relationship was 7% likely.

Marie

Marie would have to have a lot of full relationships indicated to overturn Lorraine’s results.

Marie only has 2 George Butler side matches and those matches are quite low.

So for 16 matches, 12 favor the 1/2 relationship. To me, that says that there is a 75% chance that George and Edward are half brothers. Still, there is a 25% that they could be full brothers. I think that I would be more convinced if I saw all pink on the chart above.

Still, Tina has a theory and the DNA certainly give more credence to her theory.

Summary and Conclusions

I checked the DNA matches between descendants of the George Butler who was born 1872 and my wife and her two Aunts
I used the relationship predictor at the Shared cM Project. At the level of relationship, say 2nd cousin 1 removed the predictor would favor a full relationship or 1/2 relationship.
I put the results of a full or 1/2 relationship in a spreadsheet. 3 out of 4 DNA matches favored the half relationship. That suggests that it is three times as likely that the George H Butler born 1872 and Edward Henry Butler are half brothers. However, that does not rule out the 25% chance that they were full brothers.

April 18, 2026April 18, 2026

Looking for My Revolutionary Soldier Ancestors

I recently joined the Historical Society for the Town I grew up in and there was a talk that night on Revolutionary War ancestors. Or in this case, one of the local ancestors of the President of the Historical Society. I know that I have at least one ancestor who served in the Revolutionary war and he lived in the Dighton, Massachusetts area. He was Anthony Snell and his story can be found here.

Some Potential Revolutionary War Soldiers

I did not highlight the elder Anthony Snell as I have that he died fairly young on my web site. A source at Ancestry has his death in 1767. I am not sure why I did not highlight Stephen Churchill.

Anthony Snell and DNA

I am not highlighting Anthony Snell here but I would like to mention his DNA as this is a DNA and Genealogy Blog. At a family reunion, I got the DNA from one of my father’s many 1st cousins. Here is Joyce’s connection to Anthony Snell according to ThruLines at Ancestry:

Let’s look at my Snell DNA/Genealogy tree to see how that compares:

It looks like I am a little light on the Anthony son of Anthony line.

Next, I looked at my own ThruLines:

It looks like I could improve my Snell family tree if these are correct. Here is Horace’s tree at Ancestry:

It looks like I already have Stephen Snell in my Ancestry tree:

The best way to add Horace is to add him as a floating tree and then attach him to my tree if it works out. This must be Horace’s draft card:

Here is Horace’s birth record:

Horace’s obituary summary gives some more information:

This shows that Horace ended up in Missouri.

Viola’s wedding record shows that her father was a fisherman:

Horace father and son) were farmers.

Next I just need to connect Arthur E Snell to Stephen Snell:

Here is Arthur and family in 1910:

According to this, Arthur was quite a bit older than his wife Nellie. The couple married in 1894 in Tiverton:

Next, I connect Horace’s line with my Ancestry tree to make it match what is shown on the ThurLines. All this to say that it is very likely that Horace and I share common DNA from Anthony Snell (or his wife Betsy Luther). I have pretty old DNA!

Here is the family in New Bedford in 1865:

This tells a potentially sad story. I believe that Stephen’s father Anthony died earlier in 1865 so is not shown. Elizabeth would be Stepen’s mother. I see no wife for Stephen, so she likely had passed away at this point.

I can also add Horace to my Snell DNA/Genealogy Tree:

Benjamin Luther

I have this information at my Luther Web Page:

According to the Luther Genealogy, “Benjamin Luther resided in Dighton, was of a family of seamen, and had four master mariners in his family. He was said to have always been spoken of as ‘Captain Benjamin of Dighton.’ He was a Revolutionary soldier, enlisting in Capt. Ephraim Hathaway’s Co., Co. Popes’ Reg’t., on the Alarms of Dec. 8, 1776 and Aug. 1780.”

I see this reference in the Massachusetts Soldiers and Sailors of the Revolutionary War:

I don’t have much more on this Benjamin Luther. He died in 1834. Apparently there was another Revolutionary War Veteran named Benjamin Luther that lived longer.

This 1835 Pension Roll Call is apparently my ancestor based on his age at the time – even though he died in 1834, this probably went to publication before they had knowledge of his death.

This appears to be where the church is:

Here is my Luther DNA Tree:

There is some connection here as Betsy Luther married Anthony Snell. I have a match to Lynn at Ancestry.

Parker

This family was from Falmouth. Theoretically William and Isaac could have served in the Revolutionary War. However, he died in 1778 at age 49. This must be William:

I have that William fought at Fort Ticonderoga:

It looks like William was a Patriot and gave the last years of his life for his country – even when ill. I am curious as to how and where he died. This adds a lot of information as I knew very little about William Parker. I see that in 1772, his father Thomas left him one dollar in his will:

William’s father Thomas was quite wealthy. I wonder what a dollar would have meant at this time as the currency was in British Pounds. According to the internet:

- The Spanish Piece-of-Eight: The most common “dollar” was the Spanish dollar, which served as the unofficial, widely accepted currency. It held consistent value due to its silver content, unlike local, often depreciated, paper money.
- Value in Shillings: While England used pounds, Massachusetts used a local pound system. Often, one Spanish dollar was valued at 6 shillings in Massachusetts.

This seems strange to leave your eldest son such a small amount as his estate was worth over 1300 pounds.

I see here the family connection with Rochester as Thomas owned a cedar swamp lot there.

Did William’s Son Isaac Serve in the Revolutionary War?

This is a difficult one. There are many Isaac Parkers listed in the American Soldiers and Sailors book. These seem to be two different Isaac Parkers:

There are many other Isaac Parkers listed in the Revolutionary Soldier Book, but the above seem to be the most likely. It is possible that Isaac stayed behind while his father fought in the war.

My father’s cousin Joyce has four matches with these likely descendants of Thomas Parker:

The two from Thomas Landers are closer matches on other lines:

Nathaniel Hatch Jr.

Nathaniel was Isaac Parker’s father-in-law.

As Nathaniel was from Falmouth, this seems promising. I see that Nathaniel was busy having children during this time:

I am not sure if this is the same person:

Here are some Hatch DNA connections:

I will look at more potential Revolutionary War soldier ancestors in an upcoming Blog.

Summary and Conclusions

I am surprised that I have never highlighted my Revolutionary War ancestors before. The 250th anniversary of our nation has helped me focus on the topic
Each of the four lines that I looked at had at least some Revolutionary War experience. My Hatch ancestor appears to have had as little as 3 days service.
We know so little about our ancestors at this time, the service in the War gives us at least a glimpse into what they were doing in support of our Country.
There appears to be DNA connection to each of my four lines that served in the Revolutionary War. Those lines being Snell, Luther, Parker and Hatch.
Looking at these lines has helped me to add to, update and correct my family tree at Ancestry

January 5, 2026

Potential Hartley ThruLines

Continue reading “Potential Hartley ThruLines”

October 9, 2025

More DNA Evidence for My Childrens’ Warren Ancestry

I have that my two children descend from Jeremiah Warren:

From Ancestry ThruLines for my daughter:

This shows a DNA connection between children of Bridget Warren and John J Warren.

Here is a Warren DNA Tree I built in 2020:

Mary is a new DNA match to the tree since 2020.

Adding Mary to My Tree?

Ancestry suggest that I evaluate Mary’s tree. Here is what Mary has:

I only need connect Mary back to Francis J. Sullivan. Here is the family in 1910:

Here are the children I already had for Frank J. Sullivan:

Notice this is the same family due to Blanche, Henry and Russell Sullivan. That means that Douglas Sullivan must be George Douglas Sullivan, the great-grandfather of Mary. The Roman Catholic records show Douglas’ full name:

The Massachusetts records only have him as Douglas:

Next, we need the connection from Douglas to Mary’s grandfather.

Frank passes away in 1917:

George is a single truck driver for the City of Lowell in 1930:

Here is Mary’s grandfather Jerry in 1950:

Jerold appears to have been in the Navy:

Here, I have added Mary to my Warren DNA Tree:

A Tale of Two John Cavanaughs

All the DNA connection is important as there is some confusion between two John Cavanaughs in Lowell. I previously set out the genealogy of my children in this 2019 Blog.

My Childrens’ John Cavanaugh

This John was born in 1880 to John Warren and Louisa Kavanaugh:

As stated in the Roman Catholic record, he was illegitimate. This John went by John Warren sometimes and John Cavanaugh at other times. Here is his marriage record:

Despite going by John Cavanaugh, he chooses to use his birth name at the time of his marriage in 1911.

The Mistaken John Cavanaugh

The mistaken John Cavanaugh was born about 10 years earlier than my children’s’ John.

The people in this neighborhood of Lowell worked in a bleachery.

Confusingly, the two Johns were also half brothers according to my research:

The chronology is that Louisa Gatley marries Michael Cavanaugh. They have two children, but Michael dies in 1872. Louisa then has a child with widower John Warren who already has a family. John Warren drowns two years later. Massachusetts records list John’s death as ‘accidental drowning’. However, he had two half siblings who were Cavanaughs.

More on DNA and Shared Matches

So far, Mary has supported my genealogy showing that my children’s great-grandfather was actually a Warren and not a Cavanaugh. Eileen is Heather’s closest match for the Jeremiah Warren ThruLines:

On Heather’s Shared Match list, Eileen and Mary share 72 cM. Also I see a Kevin who is Mary’s father.

Summary and Conclusions

I have not reviewed the Warren ThruLines for many years. Now there are a few more matches. Some are on the ThruLines and some are not. The matches support my assertion that my children do not technically descend from a Cavanaugh Line but from a Warren Line.

May 26, 2025June 13, 2025

More Hartley ThruLines

I need to modify my Hartley genealogical tree. My earliest verified ancestor was the widower Robert Hartley who married Mary Pilling, a single mother:

This marriage was in 1830. However, finding the father of Robert Hartley has proved to be difficult.

ThruLines Gone Wrong

When I took out my best guess for Robert Hartley’s father, ThruLines or Ancestry added in Moses Wilkinson as the father:

I am quite sure that this does not make sense as Mary Pilling married a Robert Wilkinson after Robert Hartley died. I have that Mary’s second husband Robert Wilkinson had Moses Wilinson and Jane Shaw as his parents.

Adding Robert’s Father Back In

My idea is to add just a father in at this point. Here is Robert Hartley’s burial record:

The best information I have is that Robert was 31 years old when he died in 1835. That means that he could have been born in 1804 or 1803 after August 6th. There were four Robert Hartleys born in Colne Parish in 1803-1804:

All fathers of these Roberts were named James Hartley. That means that I can a great degree of confidence say that Robert’s father was James Hartley. In addition, all these James Hartleys were weavers. I’ll just add in James Hartley as a father to Robert and see what sorts out with the ThruLines.

It may take a while for the ThruLines to recalculate. This is what it looks like now:

Robert Wilkinson was taken out, James Hartley has not been put back in. But because I did not pick a spouse for James Hartley, Jane Shaw is still showing up. I suppose that it would make sense that the Wilkinson family would show up, because I am related to the Wilkinson family – but only because Robert Wilkinson married my ancestor Mary Pilling.

It has now been a few days since I added in James Hartley and now have this:

James has been added but no descendants are connected. Also, ThruLines seems to preferentially chosen Jane Shaw as a potential ancestor.

My Father’s Cousin’s ThruLines

My second cousin has tested her father who is my father’s first cousin. She has a different tree than I have and has these ThruLines:

She has chosen James Hartley and Betty Baldwin as parents of Robert Hartley. It is possible that James and Mary of Bough Gap may be a better choice. Here is a map of Bough Gap and Bough Gap Mill from about 1844:

Also, from a previous Blog, I believe that Robert Hartley’s first wife was Barbara or Barbary Heaton who died in Well Head. I believe that Well Head was in Winewall.

Robert Hartley and Mary

This next step is to find a Robert Hartley who married a Mary:

Here, I have another 4 choices. Unfortunately, a location is not given for these couples other than the Chapelry of Colne. Assuming the couple married in Colne, Mary would have been 24, 30, 32 or 44 when giving birth to Robert.

Here are some children born to James and Mary Hartley:

More were born in Gilbert Clough, but I do not know where this is.

Gilford/Gilbert/Guildford Clough

There appears to be a great amount of confusion as to the spelling of this place. Here is part of a helpful detailed walking tour description from Wycoller to Trawden:

After taking in my fill of comprehensive views from Lad Law I began my descent by following a good path on Bedding Hill Moor towards the Trawden Valley. I was drawn to look at Upper Coldwell Reservoir and Lower Coldwell Reservoir below to my left. Further west I could see the east of Burnley but these views disappeared as I descended further off the moor and were gone completely by the time I reached the first discoveries of Trawden Brook at Gilford Clough. The moor was now behind me as I followed upland pasture in the direction of Hollin Hall and the village of Trawden. Near Alder Hurst End the field path ended and I followed a lane past some lovely rows of cottages to the village.

Here is a map I found that appears to match that description:

This location looks promising. The question is, did James and Mary live in Bough Gap, have Robert and then move to Guildford Clough and have more children? Also notice the mention of Alder Hurst in the walking narrative. I believe that the Pilling family lived there.

1841 Census

There are a James and Mary in the 1841 Census in Winewall:

It is not clear if this is the same James that gave birth to Robert. It is definitely not the same Mary as she is born about 1801. She is possibly a second wife.

The oldest resident of Alderhirstend was John Hartley:

Bough Gap has many Hartleys:

Henry Hartley, 45, may have been a relative of Robert Hartley from Bough Gap? His parents appear to be William and Margaret Hartley.

Adding a Mother for Robert Hartley

I added back James Hartley for Robert’s father. Now I will add in Mary Heap. She is a logical choice, and my cousin already have Betty Baldwin (perhaps from my Hartley Web Page). Having two different mothers may be helpful to compare. Another interesting connection is tha there is a Heap living at Alderhist Head:

Adding Mary Heap will be better than having a Wilkinson wife in my ancestry.

Here is what my ThruLines now show:

However, there are no matches for either person. This could be because I have no birth date for either or because they are the wrong ancestors?

My Cousin’s ThruLines

I mentioned above that my second cousin posted her father’s results at Ancestry. But she used James Hartley and Betty Baldwin as Robert Hartley’s parents.

These ThruLines have 35 matches. Robert Hartley is listed twice, but it sort of makes sense as the second Robert Hartley was not the father of John Pilling Mary Pilling had a child before she married Robert Hartley. The ThruLines get more interesting with what my cousin has for James Hartley’s parents:

Even more matches appear on the Bracewell side:

Going back a generation, there are even more matches:

This seems to indicate that this tree is on the right track – either right or close enough to right that there are a lot of DNA matches.

Give Heap a Chance

Before I add birth dates to James Hartley and Mary Heap, I’ll try something else. I took DNA from another of my father’s cousins named Joyce. I’ll look at her Hartley side and then search for DNA matches with Heap in the ancestry. First I filter on Joyce’s maternal side which is her Hartley side. Then I search for:

The top match is Brian, but his Heap connection is too far back and in the wrong part of England:

He also has Shackleton ancestors, so that may be a more likely connection.

The next match is Andrew:

Accrington seems to be about the same distance as my Hartley ancestors from Colne and my Emmet ancestors from Bacup.

The next Brian has a shared match with a potential Emmet side common ancestor.

Steve’s Heap ancestor was from Chesire, but he also has Shackleton, Hartley adn Howorth in the mix. I am not seeing a lot of good results for Heap so far.

Maria’s 13 cM match Heap is from Burnley. I do notice the Pollard name showing up in some of these trees.

Abigail’s Heap is from Haslingden.

A Baldwin Experiment

What if I try the same experiment with Baldwin? I proposed Betty Baldwin as an ancestor many years ago:

Again, using Joyce’s maternal matches.

Kristen

Kristen is a known match. She has built a different Hartley tree far out:

Kristen has James Hartley and Elizabeth Taylor as the parents of Robert Hartley. Elizabeth would have been about 39 when giving birth to Robert under this scenario. Kristen’s Baldwin is from the 1600’s.

Cathy

Cathy has a Baldwin from New Jersey in the 1700’s. Shared matches show common ancestors on my Snell side with Massachusetts colonial ancestors.

Dennis

Dennis has a Baldwin ancestor from Connecticut in the 1600’s.

Lee

Lee has been on my radar for a while. He has Baldwin ancestors, Hartley ancestors and ancestors from Trawden.

So this experiment was perhaps more hopeful, but not the best either. Perhaps the most interesting aspect was Kristen’s proposed ancestry tree for Hartley.

The Taylor Tree Scenario

If I were to look for Joyce’s maternal matches with Taylor in the ancestral tree, I fear I would get too many matches. Kristen has this for James Hartley:

This is interesting as I had Betty Baldwin and Kristen has Betty Taylor as Robert’s mother.

Kristen does not provide a marriage date for James and Betty Taylor.

This does not appear to work out well as Betty would have been 59 when she gave birth to Robert. By Kristen’s timeline, she would actually have been 58 when Robert was born:

I would rule out Betty Taylor based on her age. It is interesting, however, that Kristen chose a Betty as the wife of James Hartley. Now that I think of it, Mary Heap would have been quite old had she been the mother of Robert Hartley

Better Choices for Mary

Mary Holmes – perhaps in her mid 40’s giving birth to Robert
Mary Stansfield – this James was a weaver which is probably a plus
Mary Berry – from Kildwick
Mary Robinson – this James is also a weaver. A witness of John Shackleton is interesting.

Here is Kildwick:

At this point, I would like to end the Blog and pick it up in a subsequent Blog. An initial look at my father’s cousin Joyce’s Kilwick matches shows that there are quite a few matches from this area.

Summary and Conclusions

When I took away my best guess for Robert Hartley’s parents, ThruLines gave me parents that I knew were wrong.
I made a guess that Robert’s parents could have been James and Mary
Unfortunately, the Mary I chose was married too early, so I ruled out Mary Heap
I then started to look at other Marys that married James Hartley in the right time period to have a Robert Hartley born 1803-1804.
As this could take a while, I will start a new Blog.

April 29, 2025

Did ThruLines Find My Hartley Ancestors?

To answer my own question, I believe the answer is no.

A Trimmed Down Hartley Tree

From going through many records, my best guest as to who my ancestors were is on my web page:

With all the Hartleys around it was difficult to establish which was which in the records. The compound matters, my ancestor Robert was a weaver. This makes him somewhat mobile. If he was a farmer, he would have been likely tied to a family farm.

My theory was, that if I took away James Hartley and Betty Baldwin, ThruLines might suggest the correct Hartley ancestor.

My ThruLines Gone Wrong?

Unfortunately, when I used this approach, ThruLines suggested a Wilkinson ancestor.

This would be a good set of ThruLines, but for the fact that it shows my ancestor Robert Hartley to be the son of Moses Wilkinson. I can at least try to give an explanation as to why this happened.

The Pilling/Wilkinson Connection

I do know that Robert Hartley married Mary Pilling who was a single mother. Robert dies young and the widow Mary marries Robert Wilkinson who is a widower. This is perhaps the connection that ThruLines is making, but it is unclear how the widow of Robert Hartley marrying a Wilkinson would connect a dead Robert Hartley to the Wilkinson family. Here is the marriage record for Robert Hartley and Mary Pilling:

The witnesses were John Schofield and John Aldersley. Interestingly, this is likely John Aldersley in the 1841 Census in Holling Hallrow, Trawden:

John was a neighbor to my ancestor Greeonwood hartley at the time. The previous page of the Census shows that Mary Pilling had remarried Robert Wilkinson by this time:

I assume that the young Aldersley was the one who was listed at both of Robert Hartleys weddings. This is probably John’s birth record in 1803:

He was born in Wanless. Here is Wanless on an 1818 map:

Here is the marriage record for Mary Pilling and Robert Wilkinson from 1839:

Notice that between 1830 and 1839, a lot more information was included on the marriage record.

Robert Hartley’s First Marriage

When Robert Hartley married Mary Pilling, he was listed as a widower. So, who did he marry first?

I can’t prove it, but there was a Robert Hartley, weaver who married a Barbary or Barbara Heaton. Notice that John Aldersley was a witness to the marriage. There was a Barbara Heaton born in Wycoller in 1802:

Tragically, there was a Barbary Hartley [note the spelling, same as the wedding record] who died in 1829.

Note that in 1829, Barbary and presumably Robert Hartley lived at Wellhead. Barbary is listed as dying at age 27 which also fits very well with the other facts.

Where is Wellhead?

Assuming I have thre right couple, it would be interesting to know where they were living in 1829. A Google search results in this map and arrow:

However, I do not see the words Well head. The location would make sense as it is not far from Hollin Hall where Robert died, not far from Wanless where John Aldersley lived and not far from Wycoller where Barbara was born. A closer view reveals that there is a Wellhead Road which suggests that there was a Wellhead in the area near Winewall:

Who Were Moses Wilkinson and Jane Shaw?

I have them in my tree as the parents of Robert Wilkinson who was Mary Pilling’s second husband. I am confused as to why Ancestry would somehow combine Robert Hartley and Robert Wilkinson just because they both married Mary Pilling. Here is what I have for Robert Wilkinson:

Could the confusion be due to the fact that I have no first wife for Robert Wilkinson? This should be easy to find (I think). This record suggests that the first was was Sarah Cowgill:

Here is a possible marriage:

However, if this is right, Robert would have been only 19 years old at his marriage. I searched for children of Robert Wilkinson and Sarah and found one entry:

Possibly this John died and another child was named John? Or this could be the same John. I would be willing to add Sarah Cowgill as the first wife of Robert to see if this improves my ThruLines.

Summary and Conclusions

I took out my best guess for the parents of Robert Hartley to see if ThruLines could come up with a good candidate
Instead ThruLines gave the parents of Mary Pilling’s second huband Robert Wilkinson to my ancestor Robert Hartley
I added a first wife to Robert Wilkinson to see if this fixes ThruLines
The next step is to add in at least a Hartley father (likely a James) to Robert Hartley to correct ThruLines.

March 28, 2025March 28, 2025

My New Nicholson 4th Cousin ThruLine

ThruLines are at Ancestry. They look at DNA matches that also have potential common ancestors in the two lines. I have not been getting many new ThruLines lately, so I will look at my newest possible connection with Sarah:

Sarah shows as a 4th cousin once removed. Apparently, I have her great-grandmother Clara Nicholson in my tree already.

Here are Nellie, Clara and Clara’s father Walter in 1921 in Sheffield:

Nellie would be my mother’s third cousin. Here is Clara’s marriage record:

Here are Nellie’s baptism and birth information:

It appears that all is in order and that Ancestry has the right connection.

Sarah’s DNA

Sarah and I must match by more than the usual DNA for fourth cousins once removed. My late mom matches by even more DNA:

My Nicholson DNA Tree

I have quite a few Nicholsons on the tree already. I’m ready to add Sarah. Here is part of my existing tree:

It will be good to add some branching to this line. Here is what my ThruLines look like:

This does not match well with my current Nicholson DNA Tree:

I have Louie and not Nancy. I wrote a Blog about Nancy and Louie here. In that Blog, I wrote that it would be interesting to see if Louie and Nancy match each other by DNA. It turns out that Louie is a match to my sister Heidi. Here is the match between Saray and Nancy on my sister Heidi’s shared match list:

Sarah and Nancy match by a large amount of DNA (190 cM). That makes me think that Nancy should be on my Nicholson DNA tree.

Louie also has a good match to Sarah.

Here, I’ve added in Sarah to my Nicholson DNA Tree:

More Nicholson Lines to Add?

Here are two more matches on my sister Heidi’s ThruLines:

They are Angela, Andrew and Nancy. For some reason, it appears that I do not have Joseph born 1872 in my Nicholson Tree. I already have a tree for Nancy:

This tree has Joseph’s father as Henry Nicholson, not Walter Nicholson. However, the DNA shows that Nancy should be connected to Sarah. Let’s take a closer look. I assumed that the Ellen in the 1911 Census was Mary Ellen Nicholson born about 1904:

As Henry was the first born son, it would make sense that Joseph’s father would be Henry also. This is the 1881 Census:

However, the 1891 Census shows this:

Here there is a Joseph who is a Carter like the Joseph in 1911. The mother’s name is that same as the 1881 Census, but the father is now George Nicholson. This brings up varioius possibilities:

There were two different familities
Henry Nicholson died and Mary A married George Nicholson
Henry Nicholson also went by the name of George Nicholson
The Census taker got the information wrong.
Joseph may have been living with George Nicholson and Mary A in 1891, but not be their son.

So, for now, I will leave out the Joseph Nicholson Branch out of my Nicholson DNA Tree, even though there are DNA matches.

Summary and Conclusions

My sister Heidi and I (and perhaps others) had a match with Sarah. Ancestry shows that Heidi and Sarah have the common ancestors of Nicholson and Clayton
I added Sarah to my Nicholson DNA Tree
Ancestry also shows that Heidi has matches to three other people who potentially descend from Nicholson and Clayton
I was unable to match these DNA matches up genealogically, so I left them off my Nicholson DNA Tree for now. It is possible that there is a Nicholson connection but further back in time.

February 8, 2025

Ramping Up the LeFevre DNA Tree

My wife’s paternal grandmother was a LeFevre. Here is the LeFevre DNA Tree I have so far:

My wife’s two late Aunts Lorraine and Virginia tested at Ancestry, so it should be easy to update this chart and go back at least one generation.

Lorraine’s LeFevre ThruLines

Here are Lorraine’s ThruLines for the LeFevre Line going back one generation into the 1700’s:

Jean-Thomas LeFebvre 1770

I have that Jean-Thomas was born in Charlesbourgh. This is an historic part of Quebec City:

Other records show that he died in Neuville:

Here is a marriage record from 1801:

He is listed as a forgeron or blacksmith. This is interesting as LeFebvre means blacksmith.

Checking the Reine LeFevre Line

I can start with Carter, though he seems to have too large a match for a fourth cousin once removed. Change of plans: I’ll go with the person who has the best tree.

Lorraine and Lise

Lise’s paternal side of her tree gets her to LeFebvre:

It turns out that LIse’s father had quite a long name:

Here is mother Maguerite Larue in 1901 in Quebec City:

The family must have been doing well to have three serants. This marriage record gets us back another generation to the older Simeon:

Now, hopefully, Simeon’s mother will be a LeFebvre. I am having trouble finding more information but see some information on Marie-Desanges LeFebvre:

This 1820 marriage record is important as it links Marie Desanges LeFebvre with her parents and establishes who her husband was.

For now, I will go with the Geneanet hint:

Updating the LeFebvre DNA Tree

Above, the part that was weak on records was between Desanges LeFebvre and Simeon Larue.

Lorraine and SD

SD is a shared match between Lorraine and Lise:

Here is SD’s paternal side:

I’ll start a tree for SD in hopes of connecting to LeFevre. I will take the Ancestry hints for Andre’s parents as I assume that they were well known. Here is Cecile’s family in 1901:

They are living in St-Antoine-De-Tilly:

Next, I need to follow Cecile’s mother Angelina:

This is in 1891. I knew from Cecile’s death record that her mother was a Lafleur.

Here is the marriage record of Remi and Odile:

I did not mention before that Remi had a dit name of Lafleur. This former name was Sivigny:

This connects Odile to the Marie Odile that I already have in my tree.

I could keep going on with the LeFevre DNA tree, but it could be time consuming.

Summary and Conclusions

I met my goal of expanding my LeFevre DNA tree
I started with one of the matches with the best tree
I hit a snag in not finding some key original documents for Simeon Larue
A second line of SD was a shared match with Lorraine and the first match. This line checked out better with all the original marriage documents found
Along the way of checking thre trees, I get an idea of what some of these families were like.
The DNA connections strengthen the genealogical connections

February 6, 2025

Following My Father’s Cousin’s Recent Shared Matches: Part 3

Going down Joyces’s list from newest to oldest:

I looked at TJ in my previous Blog. I know who cotton must be.

Joyce and Sarah

At first, I thought that this connection could not be right:

This is what I have on Sarah Pilling now in my Ancestry Tree:

I have that she had two children as a single mother. Then I thought: what if she happened to marry someone with the last name of Greenwood. This would seem ironic perhaps as she already had a son with the first name of Greenwood. When I searched for a Sarah PIlling marrying a Greenwood in the Colne Parish, I got one result:

What if Sarah has two children out of wedlock and then marries? Next, I searched for children of John Greenwood in Colne:

The records show a couple of John and Sarah Greenwood from Aldersend having two children baptized. My thought was that if Sarah was born in 1745, then she would not likely have children after 1785 and that is when Paul is born. I further assume that a 20 year break in children indicates a separate family of John and Sarah Greenwood and that Paul was Sarah’s last child.

If the ThruLines are accurate, that would mean that Greenwood Hartley would have a second cousin named Hartley Greenwood!

Another reason I think that the ThruLine could be correct is that I have my ancestor Greenwood Pilling dying at Aldersend in 1804. Note that this Sarah’s two Greenwood sons were born at Aldersend.

This is part of a map from 1818. I believe that OlddrestEnd is the same as Aldersend. A newer map shows Alder Hurst in this area:

To me, the name of Sarah Pilling, the location of Aldersend and the DNA match is more than coincidental.

The Pilling Genealogy

To do this correctly, I need to add the recent Sarah match to my tree as a floating tree to see if it correctly heads back to Aldersend. I will assume that Sarah knew who her grandparents were.

It appears that Sarah’s grandfather was from Wath upon Deane:

Here is the Greenwood family in 1921. Interestingly, many worked for F Hartley & Co.

Here is Shipley in Bradford:

The 1881 Census shows a problem:

John Greenwood’s father, also a John is working for an out of business beer house if I am reading it correctly.

Unfortunately, this line of genealogy is not matching up with the Ancestry ThruLines. So, the genealogy is dissapointing, but the theory that Sarah Pilling married a Greenwood still interests me.

Joyce and Izzy

This relationship seems questionable. However, what if Jane Shaw married a Hartley before a Wilkinson?

Jane marries Moses Wilkinson in 1785, so that cannot be right.

Unfortunately, I cannot make sense from the ThruLine. I took off the parents of Robert Hartley in my Ancestry Tree hoping that Ancestry would find likely parents for Robert, but having Jane Shaw as a mother does not make sense to me.

Joyce and Tara

I have my tree built out to tara’s likely grandmother: Charlotte Robbins, so this should be easy. Due to a large Snell DNA chart, it would make sense to have one for just the descendants of Otis Snell: