Category: ThruLines

Posted on

Updating Philadelphia Baker and Surrick ThruLines

In the past, I have looked at some of my Baker ThruLines on my mother’s side. This is my summary on a Baker DNA/Genealogy Chart that I made:

This Chart goes back to some of my 4th cousins on average. However, ThruLines go back to 6th cousins. That means that this chart is undersized.

Here are my ThruLines going back one more generation to an earlier Conrad Baker:

I already have a tree for Ruth’s maternal side:

Ancestry suggests Conrad Baker and Mary Surrick as the parents of Sophia Baker.  I would have to assume that they are correct. All indications are that the tree is correct, though there are few original sources.

Here is a source from the Daughters of the American Revolution:

Here is the extra generation added to my Baker Tree:

Based on this Ancestry Tree, Conrad had many children:

My ancestor was the first wife Mary Surrick who apparently died before 1796. That means that most of the children must have been through Susanne Fraley. Also, according to these trees, this Conrad was bron in New York.

This tree shows that Sophie Baker Andress had quite a few childre also:

This increases the chance of having a DNA match.

Going Back Before Baker to Surrick

I notice that my mother has some Surrick ThruLines:

Why not take a look at some of these matches?

ldclouser has a good tree. Here is her Druck Line going back to Surrick:

Surrick seems to be an unusual surname:

According to Ancestry, there were 6 Surrick families living in Pennsylvania in 1840 and they were found nowhere else in the US. However, the good news it it appears that could narrow down the genealogy.

My own tree does not go back to Philip Surrick, so this may be a good time to amend my tree:

Checking LD’s Tree

One good thing about a rare surname is that the connection is more likely to be real to that surname between two families. Here is Mahlon’s family in 1930.

Here is Bart, to the West of Philadelphia in Lancaster County:

At this point, I should be following Kathryn’s Line. The death certificate and marriage record for Mason Druck has his wife as Katherine or Catherine Smeltzer. Here is a child’s birth certificate:

Here is Catharine in Chanceford, PA in 1900:

Catharine’s father was a cigar manager and her mother was a cigar maker. In the Census, her mother appears to be Lucy, but this obituary has her mother as:

In 1860 Philadelphia, 19th Ward, I find this record:

Here is Catherine who was supposed to be born in 1864 according to findagrave was born probably in 1859.

This Tree at Ancestry for John Smeltzer shows that he had two wives:

The first died in 1893.

This is my tree so far:

According to ThruLines, I am alsmost there. I see a George Surrick in 1850:

He is living in the Richmond Districk of Philadelphia. His father appears to be Philip Surrick. The ThruLines wanted to show Georges father as George and his grandfather as Philip. However, I see what happened. There was more than one George Surrick in Philadelphia. The above was a different, George W Surrick:

He was a ropemaker like his father and he married Anna.

Here is the George that I am interested in:

He is living in Chanceford with the husband of his late daughter Catharine. I don’t agree with the birth date here. I think it should be around 1835.

Here is some more information on George:

This tells us that George was in the Civil War.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to expand my Baker DNA/Genealogy Tree by looking at ThruLines
  • The earliest ancestors on that tree are Conrad Baker born 1764 and his wife Mary Surrick
  • I had thought that I would be able to create a Surrick DNA/Genealogy Tree based on ThruLines, but I was unable to figure out a good connection between Surrick descendants and basically, my mom.
  • I may try again at some point. This would involve extending my known tree out to the parents of Mary Surrick.

 

Posted on

Tracing My Children’s French Canadian DNA at Ancestry

I have noticed lately a lot of common ancestors for my two children. These are French Canadian ancestors usually with the name dit Grandmaisson.

The Genealogy

The genealogy for my children Heather and JJ goes from Morrow to Tacy to Barbary to Barbary dit Grandmaison. My understanding is that a dit name is like a nickname or further identifier for a surname. In this case, it appears that Barbary was the original name, but Grandmaison was the dit name.

Starting with Heather

Heather seems to have more of the French Canadian matches. Here is one of Heather’s first French Canadian ThruLines:

It was a genealogical breakthrough when I figured out that the Tacy name was originally Tessier.

The best way to check the connection between JP and Heather is to recreate a tree for JP. JP’s Tree at Ancestry does have a Tessier:

Almina show as Albina in the 1920 Census for Central Falls, RI:

My Tree for JP at Ancestry has a lot of suggestions:

This appears to be Valentine in 1871 in Montreal:

The Marriage record for Valentine is on two different pages:

I can make out that Valentine’s father was Pierre. Her mother was something like Edessa Cyr? That fits in with the Ancestry hints.  The ThruLines have Pierre as Tessier dit Lavigne. Here is how my tree looks now:

Here is Pierre in 1891:

I found this 1849 Marriage record from someone else’s tree at Ancestry:

Here, Pierre’s father is another Pierre.

It looks like JP’s tree does match up with Heather’s:

A Tessier DNA/Genealogy Tree

Heather and JJ’s ThruLines

Here is what I see when I look at Heather’s ThruLines for Joseph Tessier:

 

This shows that there are a total of 8 DNA matches under the descendants of Michel Pierre who I call Pierre Tessier and Ancestry has as dit Lavigne.

 

Here is what JJ has:

This shows that JJ has fewer matches on the Tessier Line.

Heather and Erica

This shows going up to Morrow but he married Nellie Tacy who was originally a Tessier. It may be difficult to go all the way to Erica as her mother is shown as private. I have Nellie Morrow in my tree, but no further information:

Nellie appears to have also gone by Helen and married Thomas Glancy. It appears that there must be a connection between Heather and Erica:

Heather’s Grandmaison ThruLines

JJ’s Grandmaison ThruLines

Again, JJ has fewer:

Here again, we see the issue where it appears that there should only be one Marguerite Barbary, but they show as two.

JJ and Ransom

Heather and JJ both match Ransom:

Ransom also has a good tree:

However, Ransom’s tree goes from Vilandre to Franche and ThruLines goes from Vilancre to Salisbury.

Here is Theona and family in Providence in 1930:

Here is Charles’ baptismal record:

Ancestry has Theona incorrectly transcribed as Therese. Her last name is Philandry which is different from Ransom’s tree showing Vilandre. My tree so far:

Ancestry thinks Theona’s mother is Lafranboise. My thinking is that Villandre is a variant of Philandry.

This birth record for Theona’s daughter has her as Vilandre. Now I just need a marriage record or baptismal record for Theona. Here is her baptismal record from 1878:

Her full name is Marie Theona Cordelia Vilandre. Her mother’s last name appears to be Franche or Fraiche?

It looks like Theona married in Rhode Island:

Here is the 1891 Census:

In the 1891 Census, Theona’s mother appears to be Lefranboise.

Here is the 1881 Census:

I am assuming that these are the same family, but I may be wrong. I can see why there is so much confusion in the Ancestry trees.

I can look for more information. The 1891 Census has a Pamel or Pomela born about 1874.

We see her parents were also Fabrien Vilandre and Elise Franche.

Here is some information on another sister:

The marriage place may not be right.

Here is a record from another child of the family:

Here is where Sawyer comes in:

Corliss appears to be here in the 1900 Census:

Here, Corliss is understandably transcribed as Corlier. I say close enough. At this point, I ready to give up on this line.

What Might I Learn from This Excercise?

  • There is still a DNA match, so something is going on
  • The general area of this line of Ransom’s ancestors is the same as the general area of the line of my children’s ancestors (around Montreal)
  • There may be another line Heather and JJ are connected with Ransom on or I may have misunderstood his Line or Heather and JJ’s
  • I learned a lot about some of Ransom’s ancestors

Heather and Rose

I am ready to try a new line:

Heather matches Rose by DNA. He shows a possible link to Joseph Grandmaison by way of Benjamin Grandmaison. I’ll try the same method which did not work so well previously, by making my own tree for Rose. I picked Rose because her tree is public:

Rose’s tree ends part way up the ThruLines:

This record got me to Imelda’s father:

Here is a scrawly record for Imelda:

It looks like Imelda’s mother’s name is Adelaide Gauthier and that the baptism happened in Noelville, Ontario:

Based on location and time frame, this appears to be William St. Louis:

Here are Elzear aka Joseph and his father Benjamin in 1911:

Of interest, we see that the family was from Quebec and moved to Ontario between four and six years before 1911.

Looking for Benjamin’s Mother

If I am to get agreement with the ThruLines, I need to find a Barbary for Benjamin’s mother. Here is Benjamin’s marriage record:

I have underlined the name of Benjamin’s mother. Here is the abbreviated view of my tree so far:

Here is the 1851 Baptismal record for Hermaline:

Here are Benjamin and his wife with what appears to be Benjamin’s parents:

Hermaline recorded as Ameline was on the next page:

I think this is where the family was living at the time near the top left of the map below:

Here is Benjamin’s marriage record:

That means that I can build a Barbary DNA/Genealogy Tree:

Barbary DNA/Genealogy Tree

Here I left out the dit Grandmaison as I didn’t see this name much in the official records.

Expanding the Tessier Tree

I’ll look at Heather and Mambo:

Mambo appears to be from Canada and has this tree:

Mambo’s tree goes back to Malvina Tessier. Here is Therese in 1931 in Montreal:

Next I would like to follow Lucienne. She is identified on Therese’s baptismal record:

Lucienne’s marriage record gives Lucienne’s mother’s name:

Unfortunately, the transcriber saw Tessier as Gausier. I don’t see it that way.

Here is Malvina’s baptismal record:

Here is St Timothee to the SW of Montreal where Malvina was baptized:

Here is how my tree is shaping up:

Here is an 1851 Marriage record between Louis Tessier and Catherine ‘Chorel’:

This record goes on to another page, but the date and place look right. That gets us back to Lambert Tessier who I hope to be the son of Joseph Tessier.

Here is an 1818 Marriage record for Lambert and Felicite:

Here is the name of the father of Lambert:

I can possibly make out Josephe Tessier.

Here are some Tessiers in 1851 St. Timothee:

Updating My Tessier DNA/Genealogy Tree

I could continue on a bit more with this tree, but I will leave it as is for now. This shows Saloman with two of his siblings and some descendants. It is always interesting to me how far back the DNA can go.

One More for the Barbary Tree

I’ll add one more line to the Barbary DNA/Genealogy Tree and then I’ll end this long Blog.

Now recall in Heather and JJ’s tree, they have a Joseph Barbary dit Grandmaison who married a Marie Grandmaison. So I assume that these two were relatives in some way. When I check the descent from Marie Grandmaison, there appear to be more lines.

I would be tempted to look into the Rosalie Line as there are 5 matches, but I had trouble when I looked into Ransom’s line:

Before I decide, here is the marriage record for Joseph Barbary and Marie Barbary:

It gets confusing as most people had a Joseph or a Marie in their names. Here Joseph is called Francois.

Oddly, I see no Francois in the Baptismal record, unless this is a different person:

Rosalie Barbary

Here is page two of Rosalie’s marriage record from 1842:

Her parents are given as Joseph Barbarie and Marie Barbarie. Here is St. Benoit:

Here is an Ancestry Tree for Rosalie:

Here I don’t see Eliza from 1849, though this is probably Marie Elise. I don’t see Cleophyre from 1840. Plus this would be two years before Rosalie’s marriage.

The Glephire Line

It seems the logical choice is to try out the Glephire Line.

Here is the maternal part of kjp’s tree:

I want to head towards Bourgon. I’ll make more own tree for kjp in the traditional way, starting with kjp and going back in time.

kjp had this record for his grandfather:

Here is a wedding announcement:

Unfortunately, Arthur does not look like the father’s name Ower? in George’s baptismal record.

Coming Down from Rosalie

Due to the fact that people had so many names, I am having trouble tracking down independently of kjp’s tree. For example kjp has:

But if I just use this information, then I am not verifying it. I did find a photo of Louis Franche:

However, this must be his second wife. This is from an Ancestry Tree:

This must be the family in 1861:

My guess is that Ogliphire is the same as Glephire. Glephire was baptized as Marie in 1845:

It looks like Glephie married a Paquet:

Or did she marry this guy?

This person was transcribed as Felix Gonquet, but I suppose it can be the same person.

Confusingly, this is the hint from the ThruLines:

The ThruLines follows Hillaire Hilion to Amanda Filion. So, I am stumped for right now unless Glephire married twice.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to check up on my children’s French Canadian ThruLines
  • Those ThruLines go back to the 1700’s on the Tessier and Barbary surnames
  • I ran into a bit of confusion on the Barbary side. I was close on a few ThruLine connections but couldn’t figure out what was wrong.
  • The Tessier Lines were a bit more straightforward
  • I enjoy making my own DNA/Genealogy charts for these two lines
  • I may come back and fill out more of the charts if I can.

 

Posted on

Hartley ThruLines Part 7

This is an extensive series of Hartley ThruLines, but I feel like I am getting further back on my Hartley ancestral line than I have in years of genealogical research that did not use DNA.

In this Blog, I would like to look at this ThruLine:

This is a ThruLine between Joyce, my father’s first cousin and hudson. The ThruLine for Hudson goes by way of John, born 1771, son of John Hartley.

First, I look to see if I have created a tree for Hudson and it appears that I have not. Hudson has a good tree:

However, it has a blank right where I need it. I assume that Hudson lives in Australia:

Here is Humphrey and family in Burnley in 1911:

Interestingly, Humphrey’s wife was from Philadelphia.

Looking for Humphrey Layfield’s Mother

It doesn’t take much to figure out that Humphrey’s mother’s first name was Hannah. This is the Census for Burnley and this family was all born in Burnley according to thie Census.

This record is helpful:

That leads me to this tree:

I need to verify that Elizabeth’s father was Thomas Hartley. An Ancestry member kindly posted this image:

The name Hitchon is a new one to me, but it is not the line that I am interested in. We do see Thomas Hartley as Eliizabeth’s father. This appears to be Briercliffe where Elizabeth was born:

Could this be the same Hannah Hartley?

It appears that Thomas Hartley could have died soon after the birth of Elizabeth Hartley. Based on hints, this is my best guess for the marriage of Thomas Hartley:

Who was the Father of Thomas Hartley?

We are looking for a John. Thomas’ first son was named John, possibly after Thomas’ father. It appears that this is a bit difficult. Here are clues from Ancestry:

There was a marriage for this couple in Burnley:

However, I cannot tell if this would lead me back to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. I do see this hint from the ThruLines:

However, I am not convinced of this connection at this point.

Other Hartley/Bracewell ThruLines: Joel and Nora

I do not believe that I have looked at this connection:

Lets take a look. Nora’s mom was from Texas. Nora’s grandfather was born in Pennsylvania, but his parents were from England. Here is the 1920 Census from Fort Worth, Texas:

I am looking for Samuel’s mother. In 1870, the family was in Philadelphia:

Here is my evolving tree for Nora:

Nora’s tree is pretty good and goes to the Robert and Peggy that I have documented already:

However, there is a conflict with a tree I already have for Karen:

Was Ann Elizabeth Longbotham Originally a Tomkinson?

This is probably Richard Longbottom in 1841 in Salford:

There was an Elizabeth Tomkinson who traveled to Philadelphi:

She appears to be with her father and mother. Here is the family 1841 in Pendleton, Salford, Manchester:

From this, I turned the page on the arriving immigrants from England:

Assuming I have the right woman, she must have married in Philadelphia. I feel like I am again using the criteria of ‘is this line possible?’ rather than can I prove this line.

According to the 1851 Census, Elizabeth and her family were born in Salford:

Was Ann Tomkinson a Hartley?

There appears to be more documentation here. This record is a bit messy:

William Tomkinson dies in 1915 and his mother should be Ann Hartley, however, it is transcribed as ‘Fathly’.

Here is an entry from ,

Genealogical memoirs of various families of Tomkinson (1620-1904) by Newton Powers Tomkinson, published 1904 in Philadelphia

Here is the transcription of the wedding mentioned above:

More on Nora’s Hartley Ancestry

Let’s check the Tomkinson Genealogy on the Hartleys. Here is a marriage between John Hartley and Elizabeth Crossley:

Next, a lot would be riding on the birth date of John Hartley. The most logical choice appears to be this John:

Generally speaking, babies were baptized fairly soon after birth unless there were extenuating circumstances. In this scenario, John Hartley from Waterside moves to the Manchester area where he marries in 1802.

I get these other hints from Ancestry:

This appears to be Elizabeth Crossley Hartley livign in Salford in 1851 with her unmarried daughter and grandson. This Elizabeth was born in Rochdale:

This baptismal date is the same as the birth date for Elizabeth given in the Tomkinson Genealogy above.

Ancestry also gives this hint for the 1841 Census in Manchester:

It appears that these two trees cannot both be right going back to Robert Hartley and John Hartley. Here is the proposed one for this Blog:

Here is the Tree for my previous Blog:

Note here I have John born 1796 based on the 1841 Census, but based on an Ancestry Tree, I decided that he could have been born in 1779.

It appears that there are pro’s and con’s for each of these trees:

  • The dates matched better with Nora’s tree, but not the location. It was unclear why John Hartley would move from Colne to Manchester or it was unclear that he did so
  • The locations matched better on Karen’s tree, but the dates seemed off.

Further, as I look at Joyce’s ThruLines, I no longer see my friend Elaine on her list:

These ThruLines are definitely in a state of flux. My solution for now is to give a tint to Elaine’s and Karen’s lines:

I don’t know what to do with Nora’s line for now as that would show a different wife for John Hartley. I do note that Nora matches my siblings Jon, Lori and Sharon. I haven’t tested one brother at Ancestry and one sister did not match Nora. The interesting thing is that these two ThruLines appear that conflict with each other. One is from my family and one is from my father’s 1st cousin.

Here is Nora’s Line shaded in green:

Here is the whole tree:

This completes for now the series on John Hartley/Anne Bracewell ThruLines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It can be confusing trying to sort out Hartley Genealogy in the area of Colne, Lancashire. DNA matches should help to direct this genealogy in certain directions
  • In 2019, I started looking at DNA matches from two people who appeaered to be descendants of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. Because of this connection I added John Hartley and Anne Bracewell to my Ancestry Tree
  • Ancestry then looked for and found other DNA matches with possible connections to Anne Bracewell and John Hartley using ThruLines
  • When I checked the ThruLines, most lines seemed to connect to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • However, near the end of the series, most questions arose on at least a few of the Lines. One problem was that there were two possible ways one of the Lines could have gone and didn’t seem that both could be true.
  • Next, ThruLines for my father’s first cousin Joyce goes back a further generation. I would like to look at those connections.

 

 

 

 

Posted on

Hartley ThruLines Part 6

In the past five Blogs on Hartley ThruLines, I have looked at the ThruLines coming down from my potential ancestors John Hartley and Anne Bracewell through their children Nancy Hartley and Robert Hartley:

In this Blog, I will look at the ThruLines by way of Susan or Susy Hartley born 1755. These are the ThruLines my father’s cousin Joyce has through Susan:

There are pb, nx and Sheryl. Nx is a new match as seen by the blue dot. I looked at Sheryl in a 2019 Blog that got me thinking that John Hartley and Anne Bracewell could very well be my ancestors.

pb and Joyce

pb’s Ancestry Tree is private, so I cannot look at it but he and Joyce have Sheryl as a shared DNA match, so that  is promising. I’ll try creating my own tree for pb to see if it matches up with his ThruLines. The findagrave entry was confusing, so I looked at the social security record for pb’s mother:

That means that we have to get this family from Kansas back to Colne, Lancashire.

Here is the family in 1930 in Lone Elm, Kansas. Vera’s mother Olive was a grade school teacher:

Findagrave is more helpful for Oive:

My ancestry tree for pb is starting to fill out:

Following the Bracewell Line

Here are some Bracewells from the 1870 Iowa Census:

Father Starkey or Starky was born in England and they have a son named Hartley. Here is a photo of ‘Starkie’ from Ancestry:

The 1880 Census transcribes his name as Ataskis. However, I see Starkie:

Fortunately, Starkey is a fairly uncommon name. Here is Starkey in 1841 in Foulridge:

It looks like he was born at Hey Mill? My best guess for Mary is Mary Starkie:

I wish that the marriage record mentioned the father of John Bracewell. ThruLines has that John Bracewell was borno in 1778, but if he was 45 in 1841, then he would have been born in 1796. If he was 79 rounded down to 45, he would have been born about 1792.

One of the ThruLine sources gives this information for Susan or Susy Hartley:

They have Susan the daughter of John Hartley and Ann (who I interpret to be Bracewell). They have that Susy and Joseph Bracewell had a son named Hartley Bracewell. I take this Hartley to be the witness at the marriage of John Bracewell and Mary Starkie. I would further guess that John and Hartley Bracewell were brothers.

This Tree has John as the son of Joseph Bracewell and Susan Hartley:

However, they have John born 1796 based on the Census. I believe that John must have been born earlier:

Again, I have not proved this line, but have shown that it could be possible.

The James Hartley witness could be my ancestor. This appears to be Susy’s baptismal transcription:

Adding pb to my tree:

I mentioned at the start of the Blog that pb and Joyce aslo match Sheryl, but I have not added her to the tree yet.

Adding Sheryl to the Tree

I will assume that my work that put Sheryl on this tree in 2019 still applies.

This is interesting because pb and Sheryl are 4th cousins to each other. This also shows that the only likely way that pb and Sheryl could match Joyce would to be through the Bracewell or Hartley Lines.

Joyce and nx

It appears that the match between Joyce and nx should provide additional branching:

All I have to do is show that nx has ancestry back to John Bracewell born in 1834. NX also has a private tree, so I will have to use the ThruLines to check his Line.

Here is William from findagrave:

Here is Winnie in the 1900 Census for Iowa:

Here is NX in my tree:

NX and Joyce also have a shared DNA match with Sheryl which makes sense as Sheryl and NX are 3rd cousins.

Joel and Gillian

I also have a ThruLine with Gillian:

Gillian’s Line appears to go through Hartley Bracewell born in 1788. One odd feature of this tree is that it goes from hartley Bracewell to Jane Bracewell to John E Bracewell. I would have expected to have three male Bracewells in a row.

This Gillian’s tree:

Somehow Ancestry has figured out her descent from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell from other sources. It appears that I started a tree for Gillian previously, but didn’t get very far:

Hints from the ThruLines tell me that Philip and Ernest were from Burnley:

Here are Ernest and Mary in 1939 in Burnley:

Here is the family in 1901 in Burnley

This appears to be John in 1871:

John’s mother Jane is from Colne, so I won’t give up yet. This is my guess for the marriage of William and Jane:

This appears to be the young family in 1851:

At this point, I am ready to give up on the Gillian Line as it is too complicated.

Here is the full Hartley/Bracewell Tree so far:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I now have the lines of four of the children of John Hartley born 1730 and Anne Bracewell
  • In this Blog I looked at and added three lines from daughter Susy Bracewell born 1755
  • I looked at an additional line, but was unable to get it to connect to the Susy Line.
  • I still have at least one more Blog to write on this topic.
Posted on

Hartley ThruLines Part 5

From my previous Blog, here is my Hartley DNA/Genealogy Tree:

These are people that match either me by DNA or my father’s 1st cousin Joyce. Except for Paul. I can’t remember where he came from. All these people also have a possible connection to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell who are my possible 5th great-grandparents.

In this Blog, I will look a little more into the Line of Robert Hartley born 1758. I have mentioned Elaine in a few of my previous Blogs on Hartley ThruLines. She helped me with some local geography in the area around Colne. I connected with one of her genealogy trees which helped me on the Mary Lee born 1801 Line above. She is a friend also. And she also appears on my father’s cousin Joyce’s ThruLines:

Karen also shows up there. I have a Paul on my DNA/Genealogy tree also, but don’ t recall who matched him.

Elaine and Joyce

Unfortunately, Elaine’s tree does not show the same connection as the ThruLine:

At the point where ThruLines goes Thomas > Robert > John, Elaine’s tree goes from Thomas > James > Thomas. I’ll take a look to see how these two trees differ.

Here are Albert and family in 1891:

Here is Robert with his family in 1871:

Here is my simple reconstructed tree so far:

In 1861, Thomas Hartley was living at Laneshaw Bridge in Colne:

Here is some more information on Thomas Hartley:

Here is some more information:

This is interesting as the 1841 Census took place before this time. Elaine shows this as the 1841 Census for the family:

Here father Thomas is shown as a weaver rather than a farmer. Back to a weaver at son Thomas’ birth:

Who was the Father of Thomas Hartley?

I have a feeling that Elaine’s answer will be better than Ancestry on this one. Both the ThruLines and Elaine’s tree have a Thomas Hartley born 1788. When I check for the evidence of Thomas Hartley in the ThruLines, I get this:

There is one member tree, but when I look at clive’s tree, it is the same as Elaine’s. Here are some baptisms for Thomas in 1788:

Is this the same person?

At any rate, none of these Thomases are the son of a Robert Hartley. Here are the only Thomases, sons of Roberts I could find:

If there was a connection, it would have to be with the second entry, as I have that Robert married Peggy, a nickname for Margaret. Having said that, I see that the Mary I have on my tree is here:

This was the match with Paul that I cannot remember entering:

For now I’ll leave Elaine off my DNA/Genealogy Chart. I have only showed that she could fit into that chart. It occurs to me that there are many other ways in which we may be related. However, I have shown, at least in a quick overview, that it is possible that her genealogy could connect with John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. As I review this line further, more information may come to light.

Joyce and Karen

On Karen’s tree, she has traced her ancestry back to a Robert Hartley:

Assuming that Karen’s tree is correct, it appears that the Robert in her tree could be the one from the ThruLines. That is, based on the date of hte birth of John Hartley in 1796. However, on closer inspection, I see that Hannah Hartley was from Rawtenstall:

Rawtenstall is several miles from Colne and closer to my Emmet ancestors who lived in Bacup:

Time to check out Karen’s tree. Here is a young Charles Harvey and his family:

Charles’ father Richard was a quarry man. Here is my specific tree in progress:

However, it is Betsy that we are intrerested in. According to the 1911 Census above, the whole family was born in Rossendale. This appears to be a general area including Rawtenstall:

This appears to be the marriage registration index for Betsy Terry:

Here are Betsy’s family in the 1871 Census for Rawtenstarll. Betsy is on the next page:

Hannah Hartley Terry

It appears that Hannah Terry was born in Rutt Lee? The 1881 Census shows that Hannah has passed away:

So Hannah should be born around 1826. According to the 1861 Census, Thomas either had a different wife, or Hannah also went by Nancy:

Here is an interesting entry for a Hannah Hartley:

I should note that I have Howorth in my ancestry. However, Ancestry has this hint:

I see that as a good choice due to this bapstismal entry:

The problem (or good news) is that this brings the family back to Colne. The reason that I like Rough Lee is that it sounds like Rutt Lee from the 1871 Census. It looks like this was a large family. Here they are in Mill Gate, Lower Booths, Rawtenstall:

Actually, this looks like two families. I can’t make out the name of the second family. Lower Booths is to the North of Rawtenstall:

These two additional baptsims from Colne further tie this Rossendale family back to Colne:

I was despairing of finding a connection to Colne, but this appears to be the connection. From the 1841 Census, my guess is that the 28 year old Mary Hartley could be the child of Jane as she is older than John.

Was John Hartley the Son of Robert Hartley?

Assuming the ThruLines from Ancestry, John Hartley the son of Robert Hartley should have been born in 1779. This John Hartley was 45 or older at the time of 1841 Census. That means that he could have been born between and about 1792 and 1796. That means that he would not be a very good match if his age was reported accurately in the 1841 Census.

I do note that John named a potential eldest son Robert. That means that he could have been named for John’s father. Assuming that John’s father was a Robert, I come up with these potential parents for John:

Karen’s ThruLine Hints for John Hartley

The ThruLines hints for Karen and Joyce were more straightforward than the hint for Joyce and Elaine:

Here, I chose the Schofield Family Tree with 24 records on John Hartley:

Here we see Robert and Peggy as John’s parents. Here are some more details from the tree:

Of interest is that he shows John’s father Robert Hartley dying in Haslingden in 1845. Under this scenario, the Robert Hartley who was 80 in 1841 in the house of John Hartley in Rawtenstall must be his father Robert.

Here is more of the Schofield Tree:

Updating the Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealogy Tree

As I mention above, it seems possible that Elaine and Karen could be added to the Tree. I’ll put them in to see how it looks. If Elaine and Karen match each other by DNA, then that would also help to solidify the tree. Here I have added Karen:

I still hope that I can figure out who Paul is. Here is Elaine added in:

I checked at least one tree at Ancestry and it showed that Robert above born 1758 did have twins.

 

Finding Paul

I finally found Paul in this Blog from 2019. I built his tree out from a tree that only had five people in it (but two parents):

His parents were from New Bedford which is where my Hartley ancestors ended up. I found Paul in an interesting way. He was a shared DNA match betwen my father’s cousin Joyce and Kristin:

Because Paul was a shared match with Kritin and Joyce, that meant that his connection went back to 1861 or earlier. When I did the genealogy, it appeared that the connection went back to John Hartley from 1730. Another connection with Sheryl along the Susy Hartley Line of 1755 seemed to confirm the tree. Sheryl was another shared DNA match between Kristin and Joyce. As a result, I put John Hartley and Anne Bracwell into my Ancestry Tree. Fast forward more than four years later and now there are many more DNA connections with possible genealogical connections as shown in Ancestry ThruLines.

I just need to add in Kristin and Joyce, and I should be done with this Blog:

And the tree is not yet finished. I will continue in a later Blog.

Summary and Conclusions

  • In this Blog, I looked at ThruLines between my father’s cousin Joyce and Elaine and Karen
  • Both Elaine and Karen had possible links to Robert Hartley born 1758 who married Peggy Sellers. Robert appears to be the son of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • I hesitated adding Elaine to the tree as she has her own differing tree. Also I had trouble figuring out from the Ancestry evidence how Elaine was added to the ThruLines.
  • The mounting evidence seems to be that these many DNA matches support the theory that John Hartley and Ann Bracewell are my ancestors. This is good news, because going on the genealogy alone, it was too difficult to narrow down my Hartley ancestors.
  • I then reviewed match Paul who is not on the ThruLines. I had found him in 2019 and also traced his line back to Robert Hartley born 1758 and John Hartley born 1730.
  • Because Paul was a shared match between Joyce and Kristen, that meant that he was more likely to have an older Hartley connection.

 

Posted on

Hartley ThruLines Part 4

I have been having good results in my previous Blogs. In my previous Blog, I looked at ThruLines from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell through their daughter Nancy. She had 10 children, so potentially, a lot of descendants. In this Blog, I will look at more Nancy Hartley ThruLines through my father’s cousin, Joyce.

Joyce is a good choice because she is a generation earlier than me and should have twice as much Hartley DNA compared to me:

Here is the Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealogy Tree I have so far:

Here are Joyce’s ThruLines through Nancy Hartley:

Laura’s tree ends in Jesse Howorth:

It turns out that I already have a tree for Laura:

However, I had stopped the tree at Eliza Lee. This tree was made back in 2018 before I knew about Joyce’s ThruLines apparently.

Joyce and Laura

This line should be easy as I already mentioned Eliza in my previous Blog. She identifies her father-in-law in the 1851 Census:

I’m feeling good about Nancy’s 11 children, so I added them to my Ancestry Tree:

So here, John has Eliza who has Jesse. It appears that Laura’s tree checks out.

Adding Laura to My Hartley Tree

Laura adds another piece to the puzzle. Obviously, a lot is riding on the fact that Thomas Lee’s wife Nancy was Nancy Hartley the daughter of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.

Joyce and Robin

Here Ann Lee shows in white on Robin’s side. This is probably because I just added Ann to my tree. I get this hint in my tree for Ann:

Robin has an extensive tree which I will assume to be accurate at this point. Here is her maternal side:

I will add Robin to my Hartley/Bracewell Tree:

Unfortunately, I don’t show Joyce on this tree, but she would be in the same generation as my father. So Joyce is 5th cousin once removed to Laura and Robin.

Joyce and Shaz

All the ThruLines seem to be working out so far:

Interestingly, shaz shows to be descended from Mary who Nancy Hartley Lee had when she was almost 47 years old. Shaz’ tree stops at James Wilkinson:

If I can show that James Wilkinson was the son of Mary Lee, that may be good enough. It turns out that Mary is in the tree of my genealogy friend, Elaine:

Elaine has saved me some time in connecting Mary Lee to James Wilkinson. This connection is good enough for me:

Here the tree is getting wider, reflecting the large family that Nancy Hartley Lee had.

Summary and Conclusions

  • My father’s first cousin Joyce showed three ThruLines from the Nancy Hartley Line. These all appear to check out.
  • Evidence is mounting that we have many connections to Nancy Lee who appears to be Nancy Hartley and the daughter of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • I previously had not documented these Nancy Hartley descendants and now show 6 DNA matches between myself and my father’s cousin Joyce.
  • I will continue working on Hartley/Bracewell Thrulines in subsequent Blogs.

 

Posted on

Hartley ThruLines Part 3

My Hartley Tree at Ancestry ends in John Hartley and Anne Bracewell:

Unfortunately, I do not have good genealogical evidence that these are my correct ancestors past Robert Hartley. There were so many Hartleys born in the area of Colne, that it makes it difficult to figure things out. I say this because when Ancestry looks for ThruLines, it is trying to look for matches to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.

Summarizing the Hartley/Bracewell ThruLines

I have 7 Ancestry tests to deal with. These are me and four out of five of my siblings. Then there are two of my father’s first cousins.  I’ll start with myself:

Here I have those that are believed to be the children of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell other than James. I have that my family is possibly from the line of James. Then I have the person that I match from that line. I match three from the line of Nancy. Then I have how much I match  those proposed descendants of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell (in centimorgans)

Although this is helpful, I think that it would be more helpful to show this information on a family tree. I have already started such a tree:

This will show the branching of the matches, so I think this is more infomative. At the time I made this tree (2019), I had no matches from the Nancy Line. Now I have at least three:

However, I am now running into a different problem. Notice how there are two John Lees in this tree. It could be that one of these matches doesn’t belong in the tree or that the two John Lees are the same person.

Here is the same level of ThruLines for my father’s first cousin Joyce:

Joyce has three different matches and only one John Lee.

As a side-note, Maury who is my father’s other 1st cousin, does not have the same ThruLines. He shows James as son of Robert instead of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell:

Two John Lees

Before I add to my Hartley DNA/Genealogy Chart, I will want to figure out why there are two John Lees in my ThruLines. I’ll start with my larger match:

Joel and J.S.

J.S. has a nice tree:

Ancestry wants me to follow J.S.’s Line from Crabtree to Lee rather than from Crabtree to Betty Hartley:

It turns out I already made a tree for J.S., but I did not carry it far enough back:

I was following the Betty Hartley Line apparently:

According to an Ancestry Hint, this Betty Hartley Line appears to go to a Nancy Hartley who was from Thornton in Craven. Thornton-in-Craven is not too far from East Marton which is what I was looking at in my previous Blog.

Michael Lee b. 1803

Here is the family in 1841:

They are living in Reedy Moor ‘Folridge’ which I take to be Foulridge.

The faint red arrows points to Reedy Moor Lane which is to the West of Foulridge and North of Colne.

The 1851 Census has Michael born in Thornton, Yorkshire:

The Census is a bit confusing as Alice Crabtree is the daugther of Michael and Barbara Lee. I assume that Barbara had previously married a Crabtree. If this is the case, then Michael should not be the father of Alice as the tree shows above.

Here is Thornton where Michael is said to be born in the 1851 Census:

I think I see my mistake. It appears that Alice was married in the 1851 Census to Samuel Crabtree. Usually husband and wife are listed together, but here Samuel is listed as a lodger rather than a son-in-law. This marriage took place shortly before the 1851 Census:

Here is some more on Michael Lee:

Unfortunately, the marriage record does not give the parents for Michael Lee and there are two choices for his birth. One Michael was born in Harden and one in Higher Hague.

If the map is right, this is Higher Hague:

I think this may be Harden or near Harden Road a bit further North:

Michael Lee has a son Henry, which could favor Michael Lee being the son of Henry Lee of Harden. However, the date of Michael Lee in the Census records favors the later birth.

John Lee

Here is the marriage of John Lee:

Here we see that John is the correct father of Michael as he shows the connection to Thornton in Yorkshire. Expanding the 1851 Census shows John Lee:

John’s daughter Eliza apparently marries a Howorth. This Census is important as it shows that John was born in Colne. Based on his age of 70, John was born around 1781. This would make him 22 at the time of his marriage which is reasonable:

In addition, Ancestry recommends an earlier birth:

I assume this is based on his birth in Colne. However, I assume that Coln is also Colne. The ThruLines has John’s mother as Nancy Hartley.

Here is some more information on Eliza Lee:

She is living in Colne at the time of her marriage in 1841 and her father John Lee is a farmer. Here is some more helpful information on Eliza:

Her mother’s name was Ann. Actually, I alreaady had her as Nancy or Nanny. However, we see that she was born in Foulridge. Now, oddly, the father is a hatter.

Here is John and Family in 1841:

I can’t make out the name of the House he was living at. The two entries before this were Wanlass Wastes and Slipper Hill. My best guest would be Wanlass House. The map is a bit busy, but gives the relative location to the Wanlass Water Farm:

Here is the next page of the 1841 Census:

Was John Lee’s Mother Nancy Hartley?

For this to be true, the John Lee who was shown in the Census to be born about 1881 in Colne would have to be the same as:

Then the Nancy from this baptism would have to be Nancy Hartley. I have already shown that the wife of John Lee was likely Ann or Nancy Wilson, but was his mother Nancy Hartley?

Here we see a Thomas Lee/Nancy Hartley wedding in 1774 and a birth from the same couple later that year.

Who Were Nancy Hartley’s Parents?

We would be looking for a Nancy born aroun 1753, assuming that Nancy was 21 when she married:

  1. This Nancy has a baptism date of 1747/1748 because this was before the time the calenday shifted. The new year used to be March 25, so it would have been still 1747 in February, but more like our current 1748 if I understand it correctly. At any rate, Nancy would have been about 27 at the time of her marriage.
  2. This Nancy would have been 19 at the time of her marriage.
  3. This Nancy would have been 18 at the time of her marriage
  4. This Nancy would only be 15.

These are some more of the children of the couple:

If the traditional naming pattern was used, Nancy would have named her second son after her father. Unfortunately, that would have been John. My first two choices for the father of Nancy were aslo named John Hartley.

There are too many John Hartley marriages to investigate. However, here is a possible scenario. Say I pick the Nancy Hartley who was born in 1754 in Trawden. She could have been the daughter of this couple:

Let’s further suppose that Nancy was the daughter of Anne. They may have named her Nancy to distinguish her from her mother Anne. This seems to be a house of cards, but one that may be gaining support.

I already liked the branching of this ThruLine:

What I mean by that is that there are three different matches all going back to Nancy Hartley. The only thing I would change at this point is that it appears that Nancy was born in 1754 rather than 1752.

A New Hartley DNA/Genealogy Tree

I have found these trees to be helpful. I don’t have immediate access to the tree I showed earlier in the Blog, so I wrote up a simplified version:

I previously had only two lines represented which were my line (James) and the Robert Hartley Line. Now having three lines makes the possibility of my descent from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell seem more likely. The interesting thing about my previous tree is that my immigrant ancestor’s second cousin Richard Holgate had moved from Blackburn to New Bedford. I wonder if Greenwood ever got in touch with him in New Bedford.

Additional Lee Lines

I would like to look at the other two Lee Lines. One should be easy as it has a John Lee from 1779. This is the same John that I had surmised was correct in the previous Line going down to J.S.

John and Joel

My match with John looks like this:

It appears that the only connection I need to look at is between John Lee and Martha Lee. It turns out that I already have an image of the 1841 Census with Martha in it. It turns out that John also has that same reference:

However, DNA match John in his tree, did not make the same connection that I did with Ann Lee being Nancy Wilson. Interestingly, if I had seen John’s tree, I would have focused on the Richard Hartley/Martha Bracewell Line. That shows how helpful these ThruLines can be.

I also see that John and I have a shared match with J.S., but also a Wilkinson. The Wilkinson match is confusing, because I think I am related to the Wilkinsons on the Pilling side rather than the Hartley side.

Here is Martha’s baptismal transcription:

Here is my addition of my 6th cousin John to the Tree:

That is, of course, assuming that I have the correct tree.

Gabrielle and Joel

Ancestry appears to want me to evaluate Gabrielle’s entire line. Gabrielle’s tree goes back to Jane Lee:

The marriage record for Edith Miles gives her parents:

We find the Lee name in the marriage index:

Here is my version of Gabrielle’s tree so far:

Jane’s Anglican Marriage record gives her birthplace and parents:

In the 1871 Census for Burnley, we see that Robert Lee was from Colne:

Here is 11 year old Robert Lee living in Lenches, Great Marsden in 1851 – next to another Robert Lee family:

Here is Robert’s family enumerated on the previous page next to the Shackelton family:

Robert Lee Sr

The above Census has Robert born in Earby, Yorkshire:

In my list of children of Thomas and Nancy Lee above, I stopped at 1788, but the list goes on:

My guess is that these were all from the same family. The only problem is that if Nancy was born in October 1754, she would have been 46 going on 47 when she had Mary. Possible, but somewhat rare. In support of Mary Lee, I see at the start of the Blog that my father’s first cousin Joyce has a ThruLine going up to Mary Lee born in 1801.

Revised Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealgy Tree

The tree is starting to fill out:

This tree compares well with my Ancestry ThruLines:

I have the three matches from the Nancy Hartley lineage. I have not checked the Susan Hartley Line yet. I have Paul instead of Nora from the Robert Hartley Line. I will check out the Susan and Robert Hartley Lines in my next Blog.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I started out trying to summarize the ThruLines going back to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. These were difficult to summarize without trying to verify them.
  • Instead, I looked at the genealogies of the ThruLine matches going back to the Nancy Hartley Line. These three all either checked out or proved to be possible or likely.
  • It was helpful that Nancy Hartley had 10 children
  • I found it significant that the branching for these matches went back to around the year 1800. Two matches were from the UK and one was from Australia.
  • I entered the Nancy Hartley Line onto a Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealogy Chart
  • Having these extra matches appear to solidify the likelihood that my ancestors could have been John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. I had earlier identified them as the most likely candidates and the ThruLines seem to back that up
  • I continue to maintain a healthy skepticism concerning the results and want to be open to other possibilities. Going back to 6th cousins opens up a lot of possibilities and other family lines which are out there.
  • In my next Blog, I will follow other ThruLine leads from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.

 

Posted on

Placing AncestryDNA Matches the Michael Frazer Tree with ThruLines

This Blog is a more concise summary of the Blog I wrote here. Ancestry does a good job of trying to connect DNA matches and genealogies using a computer program called ThruLines. This is the right thing to do. However, Ancestry produces its ThruLines with published genealogies which can sometimes be off track or confusing.

Years ago, I saw that some in my family had a fairly large DNA match with a person named BV at Ancestry. Looking into BV’s genealogy, I saw that I matched her on her McMaster side. Here are my brother Jon’s ThruLines:

I found out that my ancestor Margaret Frazer married William McMaster and then moved with her family to Ontario. My 3rd great-grandmother Fanny married in Ireland and stayed behind. It was clear from the DNA that our match to BV was on the James Line of Frazers. That Line had mostly descendants from James Frazer’s sons Archibald Frazer and Michael Frazer. There was also a Patrick Frazer, but I am not aware of DNA matches that I have from this line. From DNA matches to others and from genealogy clues, I reasoned that Margaret was likely the daughter of Michael Frazer and Margaret Stuart.

BK

Ancestry has since added others to the Michael Frazer Tree using ThruLines:

My brother Jon’s ThruLines shows a match to BK on the Michael Frazer Line. I looked into BK’s genealogy and it checked out. It turns out that the Archibald above also moved to Ontario from Ireland. From there, we can track down his descent to BK. Unfornutately, the J.F. in the ThruLines is not correct. He descends from a different Archibald Frazer. But, his Archibald stayed in Ireland. Here is the tree of researcher Joanna (brother of J.F.):

Her ancestors beginning with Edward F Frazer were from Ireland and then later generations moved to England. The ThruLines mix up Archibald Frazer born in 1792 and Archibald Frazer born 1801. So how did Ancestry get this wrong?

More on J.F.

J.F. is placed incorrectly at this time at least on one of my siblings’ ThruLines. I have access to J.F’s sister Joanna’s ThruLines:

Here, of course, Joanna is placed correctly. I am sure that if I had access to J.F.’s ThruLines, he would also show that he is descended from Archibald Frazer born 1792 and not the one born 1801. That means that J.F. is placed incorrectly in one ThruLine and correctly in another. In Ancestry’s defense, there has been a lot of confusion in the various trees and the genealogy does get a bit confusing with many Archibalds Frazer.

A Complicating Factor

Interestingly, here is Joanna’s ThruLines going back to James the father of Michael and Archibald:

James had a daughter named Elizabeth. She marries a Knott and they have a daughter Catherine. Catherine marries Archibald Frazer born 1801 and BK also descends from this ancestry. That makes BK a 5th cousin once removed to Joanna and J.F.

ThruLines for Monica

My sister Heidi shows more ThruLines on the Michael Frazer Line:

ThruLines has Monica under Michael, son of Michael.

Monica’s nephew Kyle is also shown under this branch. When I checked out Monica’s ancestry, I found this (from a previouis ThruLine):

I got Monica back to a Michael Frazer, but he was born in 1810. Before that, I lost track of the genealogy. Assuming the dates are correct, Michael born in 1810 could not be the son of Archibald born in 1801. That means that since I wrote the previous Blog, there appears to be a correction in the ThruLines that reflects the information that I found. Here is a case where, to me, it seems that the same name for the son plus a DNA connection seems to make up for lack of a birth record for Michael Frazer born around 1810.

More on Michael Frazer Born 1810

I find it interesting that Ancestry came up with a logical conclusion that I also came up with. I wonder if there are trees which suggest that Michael born in 1810 was the son of Michael born in 1764. When I go back to my sister Heidi’s ThruLines and click on Michael Frazer born 1810, I get this note:

Here we see that Joanna has added Michael to her tree:

Here is what the other Tree at Ancestry shows:

So based on these two trees, Ancestry changed the ThruLines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Years ago, I discovered a DNA match with a McMaster/Frazer common ancestor. The Frazer was Margaret Stuart Frazer and I placed her by best fit as the daughter of Michael Frazer (who married a Stuart) and who was born about 1764.
  • Since then, there have been more ThruLines for this same Michael Frazer
  • Recently two matches came up: BK and Monica
  • BK is descended from Archibald Frazer (born 1801) who is believed to be the son of Michael Frazer born 1764
  • Monica is descended from a Michael Frazer born 1810. This Michael is likely a later son born to Michael Frazer of 1764
  • I also looked at J.F. who was incorrectly placed in one of my sibling’s ThruLines as descending from Michael of 1764. J.F. and Joanna correctly descend from a different Archibald born 1792 and son of another Archibald (brother of Michael born 1764).
  • Further as my brother Jon matches J.F, the correct ThruLines for for Jon and J.F. would go back to James Frazer who was born about 1720. This is based on genealogy that we are aware of. There may be other connections that we are not aware of.
  • The moral is that ThruLines change and can be incorrect at times, so they have to be studied and interpreted correctly. It is easier to tell the the wrong ThruLines than to prove that one is right. However, proving one is wrong can lead to the likelihood that the ancestor is in a different Line.

 

Posted on

A Few Matches to My Mom on the Baker Line

I see a new DNA match my mom has on her Baker Line. The ThruLines look like this:

Ruth is the new match. Looks like I tried a tree for Gwen in the past. The ThruLines above showed Harry Wood’s mother as Rebecca Andress. I had a different mother:

Building a Tree for Ruth

Bassed on the ThruLines, Ruth is two more generations back from Gwen. The tree I have for Gwen appears to go back to Rebecca Andress:

A Social Security record was helpful:

Here is the 1920 Census:

Samuel was a widow at this time. Here a record for Rebecca Andress:

For the ThruLines to be right, Sophia Andress needss to be Sophia Baker. This death record implies that Sophia was a Baker:

Bottom line is that the ThruLines for Ruth appear to be correct:

Summary and Conclusions

  • It is interesting that of my mom’s two ThruLines matches going back to Conrad Baker born 1764, one appear to be incorrect and one appears to be correct.
  • The current match Ruth is two generations closer on the Thrulines than the other match, so that made it easier to verify her connection to Conrad Baker
  • It would probably a good idea to check the connection with Gwen again, but the last time I checked, I couldn’t connect her back to Conrad Baker.
  • If both these matches (Ruth and Gwen) uploaded to Gedmatch, it would be possible to see if they matched each other by DNA. If that were the case, it would be more likely that Gwen would also be descended from Conrad Baker.

 

Posted on

Updating Some Hartley ThruLines and AncestryDNA

Although Ancestry is a bit expensive and does not provide a chromosome browswer, it is still one of the most user-friendly platforms to review DNA matches and genealogical connections. I like to go through the kits I manage to see if there and any connections. When I am looking for matching, my two favorite filters are ‘Unviewed’ and ‘Common ancestors’.

My Sister Lori’s Match with Linda

Here I have chosen those two filters for my sister Lori:

If there is anything under this category, it could mean a new match on a ThruLine:

Normally, there would be a blue dot near Linda’s name showing that she is a new match, but I just clicked on her name and once I did that, the blue dot goes away. Here is how Ancestry thinks we connect:

Here there is a new designation on Linda. When I go back an do a sort for Linda, I see that her results came out in the last 7 days. I also see that the two lines seem pretty sure. In other words, Ancestry is not asking me to evaluate Linda’s line. I have my own spreadsheet of Frazers and how they match by DNA at Gedmatch. Let’s see how Ancestry matches up those who have tested there:

Ancestry’s ThruLines tells me that this couple has been updated which is helpful:

It turns out that Linda is an important match on Lori’s ThruLines for James and Violet Frazer. Lori has now four matches, but I don’t think that Jess was placed in the correct tree. I suppose it is possible, but if William Frazer was born in 1819, it would have been when Violet Frazer was about 16 years old. I have five siblings (including myself) who have tested at Ancestry and all but Sharon have ThruLines for Linda.

My Frazer DNA Tree

Here is one of many trees I am maintaining for Frazer DNA matches:

The yellow line is Richard Frazer’s line:

Linda was fairly easy to add in. I only added her in under my Philip Tree. Technically, she belongs under my Richard Frazer Tree aslo as Violet Frazer was the son of Richard Frazer.

Hargreaves ThruLines

I’ll start with my sister Sharon:

This couple shows up as potential ancestors. Here are some of the matches:

If I agree that our genealogy matches up, this would be one way to extend my known ancestry. These matches are shown as half cousins, but they may be full cousins.  Here is the collapsed version:

The questions would be: why would there be two daughters named Mary 21 years apart. That could account for the assumption of the half cousin relationship.

Sharon’s match Arthur has an extensive tree:

All four matches go back to Jane Creer.

As far as my ancestor James Howorth, there would be my top candidates for his wife:

My selection is based on the spelling of the Howorth name, where the family lived and the 31 January 1789 birth of their daughter Betty.  Right now I see no clear connection to this Hargrea ThruLine.

Lori’s Other Updated ThruLines

Here is one for McMaster:

The upper level view isn’t perfect asa James McMaster is listed twice.

William McMaster Branch

For some reason, I have that William was born in Scotland, but I don’t think that is right. I’ll change that to the more likely Kilmactranny Parish, County Sligo in my Ancestry Tree. Corrinne is the new match here. I can’t verify the ThruLines from her tree, but I assume that the ThruLines are right

This is probably William McMaster in Griffith’s Valuation:

Here is Cloghmne:

I have not added the William Branch to my McMaster DNA Tree:

 

Here I added the William Branch on the left:

I put my family in gold. It would be nice to have more detailed chromosome information on this line. I see that I can spruce up the right side of the tree using Lori’s MyHeritage results:

Now there is a proper tree. I have the two matches from the Archibald Line on the right in green because MyHeritage supplies detailed information on the DNA matches.

Here is how Lori matches Warwick on Chromosome 11:

Warwick represents older DNA from the 1760’s and the green matches represent DNA from the 1830’s.  Here is John added in to Lori’s DNA Painter map:

On my own Chromosome 12, I have a more complex picture:

That configuration appears to support this theory:

I have had trouble connecting the McMaster families by genealogy. This is my best attempt using DNA and guesswork.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I looked at a few paternal ThruLines
  • One potential Hargraves/Hargreaves Line seems wrong or at least not the best choice by far
  • I was glad to find a new match on my double Frazer Line
  • I spruced up my McMaster DNA Tree and solidified genealogical connections with DNA connections there.