Category: ThruLines

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A Few Matches to My Mom on the Baker Line

I see a new DNA match my mom has on her Baker Line. The ThruLines look like this:

Ruth is the new match. Looks like I tried a tree for Gwen in the past. The ThruLines above showed Harry Wood’s mother as Rebecca Andress. I had a different mother:

Building a Tree for Ruth

Bassed on the ThruLines, Ruth is two more generations back from Gwen. The tree I have for Gwen appears to go back to Rebecca Andress:

A Social Security record was helpful:

Here is the 1920 Census:

Samuel was a widow at this time. Here a record for Rebecca Andress:

For the ThruLines to be right, Sophia Andress needss to be Sophia Baker. This death record implies that Sophia was a Baker:

Bottom line is that the ThruLines for Ruth appear to be correct:

Summary and Conclusions

  • It is interesting that of my mom’s two ThruLines matches going back to Conrad Baker born 1764, one appear to be incorrect and one appears to be correct.
  • The current match Ruth is two generations closer on the Thrulines than the other match, so that made it easier to verify her connection to Conrad Baker
  • It would probably a good idea to check the connection with Gwen again, but the last time I checked, I couldn’t connect her back to Conrad Baker.
  • If both these matches (Ruth and Gwen) uploaded to Gedmatch, it would be possible to see if they matched each other by DNA. If that were the case, it would be more likely that Gwen would also be descended from Conrad Baker.

 

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Updating Some Hartley ThruLines and AncestryDNA

Although Ancestry is a bit expensive and does not provide a chromosome browswer, it is still one of the most user-friendly platforms to review DNA matches and genealogical connections. I like to go through the kits I manage to see if there and any connections. When I am looking for matching, my two favorite filters are ‘Unviewed’ and ‘Common ancestors’.

My Sister Lori’s Match with Linda

Here I have chosen those two filters for my sister Lori:

If there is anything under this category, it could mean a new match on a ThruLine:

Normally, there would be a blue dot near Linda’s name showing that she is a new match, but I just clicked on her name and once I did that, the blue dot goes away. Here is how Ancestry thinks we connect:

Here there is a new designation on Linda. When I go back an do a sort for Linda, I see that her results came out in the last 7 days. I also see that the two lines seem pretty sure. In other words, Ancestry is not asking me to evaluate Linda’s line. I have my own spreadsheet of Frazers and how they match by DNA at Gedmatch. Let’s see how Ancestry matches up those who have tested there:

Ancestry’s ThruLines tells me that this couple has been updated which is helpful:

It turns out that Linda is an important match on Lori’s ThruLines for James and Violet Frazer. Lori has now four matches, but I don’t think that Jess was placed in the correct tree. I suppose it is possible, but if William Frazer was born in 1819, it would have been when Violet Frazer was about 16 years old. I have five siblings (including myself) who have tested at Ancestry and all but Sharon have ThruLines for Linda.

My Frazer DNA Tree

Here is one of many trees I am maintaining for Frazer DNA matches:

The yellow line is Richard Frazer’s line:

Linda was fairly easy to add in. I only added her in under my Philip Tree. Technically, she belongs under my Richard Frazer Tree aslo as Violet Frazer was the son of Richard Frazer.

Hargreaves ThruLines

I’ll start with my sister Sharon:

This couple shows up as potential ancestors. Here are some of the matches:

If I agree that our genealogy matches up, this would be one way to extend my known ancestry. These matches are shown as half cousins, but they may be full cousins.  Here is the collapsed version:

The questions would be: why would there be two daughters named Mary 21 years apart. That could account for the assumption of the half cousin relationship.

Sharon’s match Arthur has an extensive tree:

All four matches go back to Jane Creer.

As far as my ancestor James Howorth, there would be my top candidates for his wife:

My selection is based on the spelling of the Howorth name, where the family lived and the 31 January 1789 birth of their daughter Betty.  Right now I see no clear connection to this Hargrea ThruLine.

Lori’s Other Updated ThruLines

Here is one for McMaster:

The upper level view isn’t perfect asa James McMaster is listed twice.

William McMaster Branch

For some reason, I have that William was born in Scotland, but I don’t think that is right. I’ll change that to the more likely Kilmactranny Parish, County Sligo in my Ancestry Tree. Corrinne is the new match here. I can’t verify the ThruLines from her tree, but I assume that the ThruLines are right

This is probably William McMaster in Griffith’s Valuation:

Here is Cloghmne:

I have not added the William Branch to my McMaster DNA Tree:

 

Here I added the William Branch on the left:

I put my family in gold. It would be nice to have more detailed chromosome information on this line. I see that I can spruce up the right side of the tree using Lori’s MyHeritage results:

Now there is a proper tree. I have the two matches from the Archibald Line on the right in green because MyHeritage supplies detailed information on the DNA matches.

Here is how Lori matches Warwick on Chromosome 11:

Warwick represents older DNA from the 1760’s and the green matches represent DNA from the 1830’s.  Here is John added in to Lori’s DNA Painter map:

On my own Chromosome 12, I have a more complex picture:

That configuration appears to support this theory:

I have had trouble connecting the McMaster families by genealogy. This is my best attempt using DNA and guesswork.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I looked at a few paternal ThruLines
  • One potential Hargraves/Hargreaves Line seems wrong or at least not the best choice by far
  • I was glad to find a new match on my double Frazer Line
  • I spruced up my McMaster DNA Tree and solidified genealogical connections with DNA connections there.

 

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Daley DNA and Genealogy

I am looking for specific Daley DNA and genealogy on my wife’s side. Here is my mother-in-law’s maternal side:

Elizabeth Daley was born in Canso, Nova Scotia and died in Boston during the Flu Epidemic in 1919. DNA matches have been scarce, but we will take a look.

Ancestry Daley ThruLines

An easy place to look for genealogical connections with DNA matches is with Ancestry’s ThruLines. Here is one of the Daley ThruLines as shown from the perspective of my mother-in-law Joan:

This shows that Joan has a DNA match with Katherine who likely descends from Elizabeth Daley’s sister Mary. Here is what Katherine has about her grandmother:

It looks like Mary stayed in Canso. This appears to be Mary Kelly’s mother Mary in 1911:

Here is the family in 1921:

This was not easy to figure out. Ancestry transcribes her husband’s name as Canet. However, I see something more like Everett. Julia would be Katherine’s grandmother Mary Julia. All this to say is that the ThruLines for Katherine and Joan look right.

More ThruLines Back to Lawrence Daly

This shows Edward (who my mother-in-law Joan descends from) and two siblings: Michael and Ann. I must not have Ann in my tree as she shows as green. However, the fact that there are three DNA matches to Joan tell me that Ann is the real thing.

A Daley DNA Tree

Here is the start of my Daley DNA tree:

Here is Canso, where many Daley’s lived:

Canso is in Nova Scotia below Cape Breton and not too far by water from Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland where my mother-in-law Joan’s other ancestors were from.

The Ann Daily Line

The DNA matches are to Joan. Carol has a reference to Ann Daily’s marriage which makes all this seem legit.

Here is Black Point – not far from Canso:

Here is an enlarged Daly/Daley Tree:

 

Elaine’s Daly ThruLines

Joan’s sister Elaine has some DNA matches also.

Along with the Edward Daley Line, Elaine has 4 matches in the Michael Daly Line and 4 matches on the Ann Daly LIne.

Elaine’s Michael Daly Line Matches

Elaine shows four matches. However, the ThruLines connection with Lois appears to have an error. It has Michael Daly in the tree twice for some reason. Here they are added to my Daly genealogy/DNA tree:

Elaine and the Ann Daly Line

Elaine’s match with Tara adds an additonal branch:

I had the Ann Daily Line wrong in my tree above. Here I have corrected it:

Here is the whole tree:

The could have been some marriage of cousins in this scenario as some of the surnames in these lines look familiar. I have not been able to find Daley matches where the match has uploaded to Gedmatch or tested at MyHeritage or FTDNA. Because of that, I don’t have detailed information on these Daley DNA matches.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Between Joan and Elaine, they have several DNA matches with the descendants of Lawrence Daley and Elizabeth Snyder
  • It seems like all these matches are at AncestryDNA
  • AncestryDNA does not supply specific DNA information on how those Daley/Snyder match
  • Because this specific DNA information is missing, I was not able to map the Daley/Snyder DNA matches onto Joan and Elaine’s chromosomes

 

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McMaster ThruLines Through William McMaster and Margaret Frazer

AncestryDNA uses ThruLines. These are usually good hints that connect DNA matches and genealogy. Here is my ThruLines match with Deborah:

I have written about Deborah’s ancestor Jane in past Blogs. I have mentioned her genealogy, but I don’t think that I have written about DNA matches from her line until now. Here is a photo of Jane:

Jane is in the middle. I descend from her sister Fanny who stayed in Kilmactranny Parish, County Sligo, Ireland. Jane and the rest of her family traveled to Ontario.

My DNA match with Deborah is not that large at 9 cM.

Jane McMaster ThruLines for My Sister Heidi

Here is what my sister Heidi shows for the Jane Line of ThruLines:

 

It looks like I cut off Joseph’s child Kelci who is also a DNA match. My sister Heidi also matches Deborah. Deborah is from the McMaster Line. Jane first married George McMaster, then a Thompson.

My Brother Jon’s ThruLines

My brother shows goosie on the Thompson side of the Jane McMaster Line:

Jon doesn’t match Deborah. Jon has a discrepancy on the James Line. How can Robert Trent have two different mothers?

My Siblings’ Summary

This chart doesn’t get to the strength of the DNA matches. However, the more of my siblings match a person, the better the match. We had more matches on the Fanny line, but I didn’t include the closest matches.

Here are the matches that only matched on of my siblings:

Frank on the Robert Line

Of the above, Frank is interesting, because it adds another McMaster Line. Here is what AncestryDNA shows:

Ancestry would like me to evaluate Frank’s ancestry. This should be interesting as McMaster genealogy can be confusing. It turns out that I have already started a tree for Frank:

Here are wedding the same year for two Margaret McMasters:

The first was my 2nd great-grandmother and the daughter of James McMaster. The second was Frank’s second great-grandmother and the daughter of Robert. These two were both married at Kilmactranny Parish. That means that Frank’s Margaret’s father was Robert.

I have this Robert on my genealogy website:

That means that Frank’s Margaret could be Margaret Mae McMaster. In fact, I am leaning that way:

I also note that Lori and Frank have shared a shared DNA match with Ron who I circled. I added in Frank in the Abraham McMaster tree:

If this is not right, then there would have been three Margaret McMasters around the same time! I have Frank in a different color which means I am not positive. Under this scenario, my ancestor Margaret and Frank’s ancestor Margaret Mae would be first cousins. Here is the baptismal record for Margaret Mae:

Goosie on the Jane McMaster Thompson Line

Goosie matches my four siblings who tested at Ancestry (but not me). It should be easy to trace her tree back.

My tree apparently already goes down to Robert Henry Lowry. In this case, it would be easier to work my tree down. That way, I won’t have to create a new tree for goosie.

 

I found a photo of Lee Senior at his 50th wedding anniversary:

The caption:

I was able to build my tree down to Lee Robert Lowry Jr. I couldn’t easily make the connection to goosie, but I assume that she knows who her parents were.

Here is goosie on the first row of the William McMaster tree:

The tree is getting quite large and I am missing a lot of DNA matches.

Deborah Also from the Jane McMaster Line

I first mentioned Deborah above.

She shows as my half 5th cousin, but is likely a full 5th cousin. I’ll try taking her genealogy down from mine like I did with goosie.

I’m already confused as this view is different than the ThruLines:

However, I see the confusion as Jane McMaster married George McMaster. This is the connection I was looking for:

Here is the family in 1880 in Iowa:

William was clearly born in Ireland, but many of these Irish McMaster families liked to stress that they were from Scotland. Here is William’s baptismal record from Kilmactranny Parish, County Sligo, Ireland:

George was no doubt named for his father’s father:

Here is George’s daughter Ethel in Nebraska in 1910:

Here is how I worked my tree down:

I didn’t enter all the maiden names of the spouses. In this case I was able to see the connection to Deborah from an Obituary Index at Ancestry. Here is my family’s connection to Deborah:

That is just one connection. We are also connected through George McMaster – apparently on a differnt line.

Summary and Conclusions

  • In this Blog, I looked at some of my unexplored ThruLines on one branch of my McMaster ancestors. This branch starts with William McMaster and Margaret Frazer.
  • One of the ThruLines went through a Robert McMaster. After lookinng at the genealogy, it appears that this Robert Line belongs on a different Branch of McMasters. This branch is likely related to the other branch but beginning with Abraham McMaster born about 1764.
  • I looked at Deborah and goosie. They both descend from Jane McMaster. Deborah descends from Jane’s first McMaster husband and goosie descends from Jane’s second Thompson husband.
  • I have tried to combine the McMaster trees in the past, but it is difficult to tell how the lines tie together. Here is one guess that I have made in the past:

My ancestors are James McMaster Sr and Fanny McMaster who married each other. Under this scenario, they would be 1st cousins once removed. Of course, there are other possibilities.

 

 

 

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My Father’s Cousins’ Ancestry Thru-Lines: Part 2 – Bradford

I would like to look at my father’s cousin Joyce’s Bradford Thrulines. Our most recent Bradford ancestor was Hannah T Snell:

Hannah was born in Wareham in 1838 and married Isaiah Snell. This family lived in Rochester, MA where I grew up. The DNA that Joyce shares with these people is half Snell and half Bradford.

Harvey Bradford ThruLines

Harvey was born about 1808 in Plymouth, MA:

Harvey only had two children. Patricia is my second cousin on another line. These relationships are fairly close, so no evealuation is needed.

Samuel Bradford 1755

By the third set of Bradford ThruLines, we are already back to 1755. Harvey was the youngest son of Samuel. Samuel is important as the link between him and Harvey is weak. There is no known birth record for Harvey. Harvey is linked to Samuel through land records.

Robert and Joyce have a 9 cM match. In the expanded view, Ancestry is suggesting I evaluate Robert’s mother and grandfather:

The link between Barbara and her son would be a little difficult to prove. I assume he knew who his mother was. He and his brother are mentioned in an obituary. Barbara is listed as 11 months old in the 1920 Worcester, MA Census:

That is a little at odds with her posted birth of 1917. Here is her birth record:

This also shows that her father was born in Boston:

Oscar Bradford

Someone helped me out by saving this record:

This shows Oscar’s father as Alexander O Bradford. Here is the family on Washington Street, Boston in 1900:

I like how someone did a great job researching this family:

Here is Alexander the father in 1870 in Cambridge:

Too bad all my research isn’t this easy:

Now we have a middle initial and are getting back to Stephen Bradford and Hannah as parents to Alexander.

Here is Alexander W in 1850 in Duxbury:

Stephen Bradford was a cooper. I believe that Stephen’s father Samuel took over his father-in-law Stephen Churchill’s cooper business. So then he likely passed it down to his son Stephen. Here is a record I transcribed:

So easy with all the research others have done. As I mentioned above, Stephen is very important as being the brother of my ancestor Harvey Bradford. Here is some information I already had for Stephen on my own tree:

That confirms the ThruLInes between Joyce and Robert. The genealogy holds together. The DNA adds evidence that nothing got messed up along the way.

I should note that my cousin has a competing ThruLine that traces the lineage up through Harvey Stetson Bradford. I will probably look at that at some time.

Heading Up a Level to Josiah Bradford Born 1724

This is interesting:

Joyce shows 2 DNA matches through William Bradford and 10 DNA matches through an additional Samuel Bradford. That sounds confusing. That implies to me that 10 people got their genealogy wrong or that Joyce matches 10 people that descend from a different Samuel and Ancestry connected the trees in the wrong way (or perhaps a combination of the two).

Starting with William Bradford Born 1749

This looks like the easy part:

This shows that Liz is and Michael are 2nd cousins to each other and that they both match Joyce. Liz and Michael share a common ancestor of Josiah Bradford with Joyce. Ancestry would like me to evaluate these two lines. I’ll start with Liz and create my own tree for her:

Above is the family in Colleton, South Carolina. I’ve got to get them back to Bradford in Massachusetts. Richard’s mom above is supposed to be a Bradford. Here they are in 1880:

According to this Census, both of Amanda’s parents were born in South Carolina. That’s OK, it is still a while to get back to 1724. Here Richard is transcribed as Harven. I suppose for his middle initial.

Amanda’s death certificate is important as it gets us back to Bradford and Plymouth, MA:

That means that the 1880 Census was probably not correct.

Here is the 1850 Census – still in Colleton, S.C.:

So apparently Jesse was the one making the jump from Massachusetts to South Carolina. I wonder where that put the children during the Civil War?

Here is a flowery obituary for Jesse:

Jesse Bradford Born 1790 and Maria

The tree that Liz created has Maria as a Thornton. An Ancestry suggestion has her as Lovell:

I think that I would tend to go with this record, but it doesn’t really matter as I’m trying to find out more about Jesse.

Here is where I have Jesse on my Ancestry Tree:

This is the information for William Bradford born 1749 in Plymouth. William was the brother of Samuel Bradford, my ancestor. The bad news is that there is not a lot of information out there about Jesse. The good news is that the DNA matches give supporting evidence for the trees that we do have.

Michael’s ThruLines

Michael’s tree is not as extensive as Liz’s tree:

The 1910 Census joins Frampton with the Liz’s Wichman family above:

Now, the Other Samuel Descendants on the ThruLines

It turns out that the other descendants, I already know about. They descend either from my great-grandmother Annie Snell Hartley or one generation back. The Mayflower Families, which is one of the best resources for Bradford genealogy, has no birth date for Samuel Bradford. So differences in his birth date would be expected. In either case, he is still the son of Josiah Bradford and Hannah Rider.

ThruLines to William Bradford Born 1686

Now this is going out a ways. But let’s try it:

This shows as two matches for Joyce, but really amounts to one. CH is related more closely through Hannah Bradford. It is just spelled differently in his tree. I’ll try PK’s tree. PK’s tree goes up to Mary Bradford:

I’m not sure if the DNA test goes with the daughter or granddaughter of Prescott. From the ThruLines, it looks like the daughter. This Thru-Line would also support that my line goes up through Harvey to Samuel to Josiah to William Bradford. The ThruLines shows PK as a half 6th cousin. Ancestry doesn’t always get the half relations right, so I’ll check that out also.

I get a bit stuck before 1860 with my own tree:

Here is Charles and his mother in Boston. The father is presumed dead by this time. One tree had this reference:

That same tree has reference to an Averill Family Genealogy Book:

Here is more from the same book:

Here is some more on Daniel Averill from that book:

The section on Daniel mentions no Mary Gardner and no Charles Averill born in Boston. In fact all these children of Daniel are born in New Hampshire. PK’s tree has Charles born in 1845 to a Daniel who was born 1762. That would make Daniel quite old at Charles’ birth. 83? I’ll pull the plug on this ThruLine. There may be a connection, but I don’t see it right now. Another way to look at it is from the top down. William Bradford born 1686 had a son William born 1726, but he died the same year according to the Mayflower Families Through Five Generations.

My Father’s Cousin’s Harvey Stetson Bradford ThruLines

I had mentioned above that my second cousin shows different ThruLines for the same ancestors. I would like to look at this. There are only two Harvey Bradford’s that could be our ancestors. I have one and she has the other. I think mine is right, so I would like to disprove hers.

Here Holly has her line going up through her father Maury to Harvey to Charles Bradford. In the ThruLines I looked at earlier in the Blog, I had this:

That means that they can’t both be right.

My guess in the match between Maury and David is that David’s tree may be right but Holly’s may be wrong. Here is David’s tree in more detail:

For some reason, both trees go through Harvey S Bradford. David’s actual tree stops at Anna Maria Bradford:

Ancestry put the rest together.

A Tale of Two Harvey Bradford’s

Findagrave.com has this information for Harvey Stetson Bradford:

Here is some more on Harvey Stetson Bradford:

Another cousin took this photo:

This is from the Sherman Cemetery in Rochester, MA:

It appears that both these Harvey Bradford’s were born in 1809. Hence the confusion. However, one was buried in Illinois and the other in Rochester, MA.

So I have proven that Harvey Stetson Bradford was not my ancestor. I still don’t know if David above descends from either Harvey. However, as my ancestor only had two children (Henry Clay and Hannah Thomas), I would say that David did not descend from my ancestor Harvey Bradford:

Summary and Conclusions

  • The most important ThruLine I looked at was between Joyce and Robert. They show a DNA match and a common ancestor with Samuel Bradford (born about 1755) who was the father of Stephen on Robert’s side and Harvey on Joyce’s side.
  • It was easy to show the connection from Robert up to Stephen and Samuel based on research that had already been done.
  • I tried to connect Joyce to PK who showed a potential common ancestor in William Bradford born 1686. However, I found too many problems with PK’s tree to make that connection.
  • Finally I looked at Thrulines connecting another of my father’s cousins Maury to David. This showed ancestry to Harvey Stetson Bradford. But I showed that that Harvey Stetson Bradford was not my anctestor. There were two Harvey’s born in 1809. Harvey Stetson Bradford was born in Maine and died in Illinois. My ancestor Harvey (not Stetson) Bradford was Born in Wareham, MA and buried in Rochester, MA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My Father’s Cousin Maury’s Hartley Ancestry Thru-Lines – Emmet and Howorth

In my previous Blog, I evaluated a Baldwin Thruline that my father’s cousin Joyce had. Turns out it wasn’t right, but lead to some interesting refinements in our shared Shackleton Line. My father’s first cousin Maury has this suggested person in his ThruLines:

A 3rd great-grandmother doesn’t seem that far back, so let’s take a look. Here is my great-grandfather’s tree:

I have that Edmund Emmet was married to a Sarah, but I don’t have the last name. Here is Isaac’s baptismal record:

I wonder where Soo Clough is. A clough is apparently a ravine:

(Northern England, US) A narrow valley; a cleft in a hillside; a ravine, glen, or gorge

Apparently I had previously identified this in a Blog:

In the 1851 Census, Isaac gives his birthplace as Sou or Sow Clough:

I did find this Padiham marriage of Edmund to Sarah Collins, but this would have been after the children were married:

Padiham is near Burnley, so the date and place is off. Edmund Emmot is from Newchurch in Rossendale. Here is Newchurch in relation to Sowclough Road:

The above marriage is likely reflected the last birth below:

Habergham Eaves is South of Burnley.

Here is a tree with Sarah Broughton:

There are some problems with these dates. I have that Edmund Emmot was born 1759. I don’t know when Sarah was born, but I made a guess at 1765. If George Broughton died in 1692, it would have been difficult for him to have a daughter anytime in the 1700’s.

I did find this burial record from May 30, 1801:

This appears to be Lane Head above Bacup:

 

If I have this right, then the family moved and had a death of a young child. Actually, this area may be the better choice:

Next Victim: Mary Bridge

This is a new name to me. Here is Maury’s ThruLIne:

Maury matches Diana by a small amount of DNA and they show as potential 4th cousins. I’ve never heard of the name of Mary Bridge. In my tree, I have a Mary as the wife of James Howorth born 1768. I do have that James and Mary Howorth had a son named Abram born in 1814.

I’ll try to re-create Diana’s tree and see if I come up on the same place. Pretty soon on Diana’s side I am back to her maternal grandfather:

I have him born in 1869, but Diana has him born in 1878 in Stacksteads:

Here is Fred and family in 1871 in Bacup:

Here is Diana’s tree:

I’m trying to work towards Abraham Howarth on Diana’s tree. Here is an important marriage record:

I find this interesting because Elizabeth was living at Underbank, Bacup at the time of her marriage in 1859. My 2nd great-grandfather was living at Underbank when he married Ann Emmet in 1851. Ann’s mother was Esther Howorth. Small World. This makes me think I am on the right track or that there are a lot of coincidences.

So in 1859, Elizabeth was 21, so born about 1838. Diana has Abraham marrying Lavinia Clegg in 1844, so that is not right. However, Lavinia was Abraham’s second wife:

Parting Ways At Abraham

Here what I have for Abraham in my tree:

Abram was born in 1798 in Hogshead, South of Bacup. This appears to be him in 1851:

For some reason, his children only get initials this year. After a little searching, here he is in 1841 at Greens:

 

Next page:

Betty above is 4. She is hte one we were looking for. Fast forward to 1861. Here is Elizabeth saying she was born in Greens:

Drawing Out the Relationships

At this point I put all the people into a chart. But first, I have to fix my old chart:

Unfortunately, I have to send Lavinia back to Manchester. For some reason, I had two Abram’s in my tree. One was 1798 and one was 1814. Above, I was looking at the 1798 Abram. It seems like I remember writing to someone about Fred Taylor. I guess I’ll have to get back in touch. I created the above chart when I wrote this Blog.

Here is the correction:

I have Diana in yellow to distinguish from the green testers who have uploaded their results to Gedmatch for analysis. At least I don’t think she has.

Next, I’ll put the tree in chronological order:

I see I never looked into Mary Bridge. Maybe some other time.

Summary and Conclusions

  • This Blog went fairly well. I was unable to prove the first suggestion of Sarah Broughton in my line.
  • In the second part, I never got to Mary Bridge, but I did straighten out the Abram/Abraham Howorth Line.
  • The Taylor and Hartley branches had somewhat of a parallel history except that the Taylor branch went to Australia and the Hartley branch went to Australia.
  • I would still like to assess Mary Bridge. Also the Abraham line needs a last name for his wife Ann.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My Father’s Cousin Joyce’s Hartley Ancestry Thru-Lines: Part 1 – A Baldwin Leads to a Shackleton

I have been looking recently at Ancestry’s Thru-Lines. These include ancestral connections suggested by family trees and DNA matches. My father’s cousin is Joyce and she matches me on her maternal side:

So that is the side I am most interested in right now. Then I am more interested in Joyce’s maternal grandfather James Hartley’s side as that side is less defined than the Snell side.

Here are the ancestors of James Hartley born 1862 in Bacup, Lancashire, England:

Joyce’s Thru-Line suggestions start at her fourth great-grandparent level which is represented by the last column on the right above. However, I am not convinced of all the people that are already in that column – especially John Hartley, Anne Bracewell, Nathaniel Baldwin and Margreatt Baldwin. Part of the reason I’m not convinced of them is that I’m not totally convinced I have their children right: James Hartley and Betty Baldwin. They were just my best guesses.

James Hartley 1763 Thru-Lines

Ancestry shows the Thru-Lines for James Hartley incorrectly:

Joyce does match Ruth by DNA but John Pilling was likely not the father of John Pilling. John’s father was Mary Pilling who later married Robert Hartley. That would make Joyce and Ruth 1/2 3rd cousins once removed. The Thru-Lines for Mary Pilling is half right:

Richard is shown as a half relative which is right, but Ruth is shown as a full relative which is wrong.

Baldwin Thru-Lines

It would be interesting to look at the Baldwin Thru-Lines as Betty  Baldwin was a best guess that I made years ago for an ancestor. If I have the right ancestor, she was born in Bradley:

This appears the same Betty Baldwin that I picked to be Robert Hartley’s mother. She was born in Bradley. Here is Bradley at the orange circle below. Turns out that Nelson which didn’t used to exist grew up around it:

My thinking is, that if we can show a DNA match to the right Baldwin family, that would lend credence to my guess that I descend from Betty Baldwin.

Here are the Nathaniel Baldwin ThruLines:

My 2nd cousin Holly should be in the first column with Joyce. Let’s look at the two DNA matches on the right. It will be important to evaluate them:

Marilyn and Steve both match Joyce. Let’s look to see if their genealogy matches with what I think mine could be. When I click on the child of Nathaniel Baldwin, it goes to a site that has many trees managed by Helen. The first tree has over 50,000 people in it. I’ll look at that one. Here is part of her big tree:

Unfortunately, her daughter of Nathaniel is listed as private. Nathaniel’s wife is Margaret, so that matches with the birth record I had for my Betty Baldwin. Next, I have to look for a marriage for James Farrar. Here is one:

Here we have some competition for Betty. If this was the same Betty born in 1771, then she would have been 21 at the time of her wedding to James Farrar.  How do we reconcile that marriage with this one?

This is 9 years later, so if this was the same Betty Baldwin, she would be 30. There seems to be a few possibilities:

  • This Betty married twice, but wouldn’t she then be a widow rather than a spinster the second time?
  • These were two different Betty’s

My guess was that this could have been James and Betty living in a section of Trawden called Hole in 1841:

Now, I don’t know if this James and Betty are the parents of my Robert, or if they are another James and Betty. Dates for the 1841 were rounded up to the nearest 5 years. So if this is the same couple that got married in 1801, they would have been at the oldest 39 and 29. If this was a 70 year old Betty Baldwin in Hole in 1841, then that could fit in with her birth in 1771. That would mean that James Hartley would be between 76 and 80 at the time of the 1841 Census and would hae been born between about 1761 and 1765.

There were about four James Hartley’s baptized in the Parish of Colne between 1761 and 1765:

Ollin Hall is interesting because the family did live in the Hollin Hall area of Trawden. However, this was an Inghamite baptism. As far as I know, my Hartley ancestors were baptized at the Church of England.

A Few Maps

Here is a map showing Hole (near the bottom of the map), where a James and Betty Hartley lived in 1841:

In 1837, it appears that Mary Pilling (now Hartley) was living in Slack Booth:

 

If I read Mary’s baptismal record correctly, her Pilling parents were from Seghole:

The James Hartley from the 1841 Census is probably this James:

That would have this James born around 1863, which would most likely be the son of John and Anne Hartley born 1863. Here is a more original version of the burial record:

This is Little Lathe, which I take to be also Laith. Here is Little Laith:

Here is a confusing burial from 1840, a year before the 1841 Census:

This has Betty Hartley from a Hole House dying in that year. If she died in 1840, how is it that she appears to be living in 1841? Perhaps after she died, another Hartley relative named Betty came to live at the house to help out? At any rate, this Betty Hartley, if this was correct age, would have been born about 1775.

Next, I check out Little Laithe in 1841. It turns out that there was a different James Hartley living there:

Hartley’s, Hartley’s everywhere. This James was a little younger than the one at Hole.

Back to the ThruLines

I tried going from the top of the tree down – which is usually a bad idea. I’ll try the other way. I’ll try building a tree for Marilyn and Nellie Farrer. Nellie’s dad was Ernest. When he came to Ellis Island, the ship record listed his home as Accrington. Here he is in Accrington in 1901 at age 16:

Of interest here, Ernest’s mother was born in Colne.

She was a Foulds which I recognize as a Colne name. Here is the marriage record from Accrington:

I’m already back to the 1840’s:

Here is Alice in 1851 in what looks like Call in Great Marsden:

Alice’s mother was Alice Kippax:

One tree at Ancestry suggests that Alice’s grandmother was a Shackleton:

That is a name that is in my ancestry:

Henry Farrer Born 1847

The 1901 Census had Henry born in Brierfield. It turns out that this is not too far from Colne:

This appears to be Henry in 1861:

His widowed mother Christiana is heading the household. Henry is shown born in Marsden. His older brother is a railway porter. In 1901 Henry worked on the railway. In 1871, Henry was a railway engine fireman living in Colne:

Now I am starting to get stuck, because the tree suggestions for Henry give his mother as Sarah Greenwood – not Christiana:

If Sarah was the mother of Henry, she would have been about 51 when he was born. Here is some more information:

This clearly gives Henry’s father as Joseph. This must be Joseph’s marriage record:

This branch does not appear to bring me to Colne right now. Here is Deane and Over Hulton in relationship to Manchester:

This is likely Richard Farrar’s marriage record:

So my tree seems to go against the suggested trees at Ancestry. Here is Marilyn’s maternal side:

My guess so far, is that Joyce could be related to Marilyn on the Foulds branch. Hopefully the connection is not non Marilyn’s paternal side or on her maternal grandmother Bentley’s side.

Back to James Foulds

One of the trees above had John Foulds and Mary Shackleton for James’ parents:

Here we even have a Hartley as a witness. Here is the entry for James:

James was born in August of 1796 and baptized 22 January 1897. This is possibly Mary Shackleton:

Notice that there was a death of a Mary Shackleton less than a year before this baptism. Here is what I have so far:

Here is my tree for comparison:

There is a potential that Mary Shackelton born 1764 could be the sister of Nancy Shackleton born 1781. It looks like my tree could use some work:

I have Elizabeth born after both her parents died, so that can’t be right.

I also have that she was born in Hey Thorn. I don’t know where that is, but Hey is likely in Foulridge:

Bsaed on this exercise, I’ll take Elizabeth Shackelton out of my tree.

Also there was more than one John and Mary Shackleton, so that was confusing. On my Shackleton web site I have:

Very little is known about this family other than the father was a weaver. This family is not to be confused with the John and Mary Shackleton of Pasture. This John was a gentleman. He had 2 daughters that died fairly young with no children. According to Dennis Cairns, “Pasture House which is situated between Barrowford and the village of Roughlee. Our Shackletons lived at Pasture Meadow which is to the South of Trawden and Southweast of Hollin Hall.

Here is Pasture House:

Barrowford is to the West of Colne. Here is Pasture Springs:

I have that my John Shackleton died at Stone Edge, but that appears to be near Barrowford, so I may have the wrong person. Here is Pasture House in relation to Stone Edge:

Here is the 7 September 1788 will for this Gentleman John:

Will of John Shackleton of Pasture House, gent. — messuages called Stone Edge, Upper Lands or Burnt House and New House, and cottages called New Houses, all in Barrowford, with other specified properties there, to Trustees for daughter Jennet. To daughter Mary messuage called Fidling Clough in Thornton, co.York; also £1000. Pasture House, Whitticroft and other specifeid properties in Barrowford and Colne, to trustees for wife Mary for life, then to daughter Jennet, subject to annuity to mother-in-law Margaret Cowgill. To wife messuage in Thornton called Windle Field, and messuage in Kildwick, co. York, for life, then to daughter Mary. Etc. (Copy-)

Here is Jennet:

This must be daughter Mary:

Here is an excerpt from a book, Man’s Estate: Landed Gentry Masculinities, 1660-1900:

This book mentions John’s father and second wife, but not his two daughters. Here is John, son of Christopher:

All this shows, that the John I have in my tree is wrong:

 

Perhaps this marriage has a hint:

I don’t know if this helps or makes things more confusing. I had that Richard Farrar was the father of Joseph Farrar above, but that was on a different line. This could be the John of Pasture House:

The John may be the John of the marriage above, but that would make him only about 19 at the time of marriage.

This appears to represent three different branches of Shackelton:

Here is Park Hill:

I have noted Salter Syke above. Wicoller is part of Trawden, so more likely related to my branch of Shackleton. Also note the spelling is a bit different.

Just to confuse things further, a John Shackleton from Heptonstall married someone from Great Marsden. Let’s hope he moved back to Heptonstall:

Summary So Far

First, I showed that my connection to Marilyn’s ThruLines was not through my supposed Baldwin ancestor. Instead, it could be that the connection could be on my Shackleton side. Along the way, I ruled out the birth and death of my ancestor John Shackelton as that pair of birth and death dates belonged to another John Shackelton. That means that means that Christopher should also not be on my tree:

So that makes it interesting that Nicholas and Joyce show a ThruLine based in Christopher Shackelton:

Here is Nicholas’ tree:

Again, Ancestry wants me to evaluate Nicholas’ tree. Nicholas has his ancestor from Kirkby, Malham near Skipton, Yorkshire:

I think I’ll skip Nicholas for now as I don’t think my Christopher is right.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I went through an exhausting review of Marilyn’s tree to see if her supposed Baldwin line matched with my supposed Baldwin Line
  • I was unable to get Marilyn back to Baldwin
  • I was able to find a Shackleton in Marilyn’s line who lived in the area where my Shackleton ancestor lived.
  • I also was able to refine my Shackleton Line. Through additional research, I was able to separate a different more famous Shackleton Line from mine.
  • I found an additional ThruLine for Joyce with an erroneous Shackleton ancestor I had in my tree and decided not to follow that up.
  • ThruLines were helpful in correcting errors in my tree in this case.
  • There may still be a connection between Marilyn and Joyce on the Shackleton Line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My Hathaway DNA

I was recently writing a couple of Blogs about where my Hathaway ancestors lived. It turns out that there are a ton of Hathaway descendants. This is a good thing for DNA matching. Think about it. If I was the only descendant of my Hathaway ancestors, I wouldn’t have any DNA matches on that line. As it is, I should have a lot. This made me want to look into my Hathaway DNA and see if I could do anything with it.

Hathaway Genealogy

The most recent Hathaway in my genealogy is Wealthy Hathaway born 1809. She married Harvey Bradford and is my 3rd great-grandmother:

Anyone with whom I share Wealthy Hathaway and Harvey Bradford would be a 4th cousin. At ancestry I have a DNA match with a J.H:

JH and I show as th cousins through Harvey Bradford. However, we are equally or more related on the Hathaway side:

This is JH’s tree and Olive descends from two different Hathaway Lines. As I said, prolific.

My JH match also appears on Ancestry’s Thrulines:

JH and Philip have modest DNA matches with me. I have a huge match with Patricia, but we are also 2nd cousins through a closer pair of common ancestors.

More Searching for Hathaway DNA Matches at Ancestry

I can do a seach like this:

This narrows down ancestral Hathaway’s from Wareham, MA. However, some of my Hathaway ancestors were actually from Rochester, MA. When I run this Search with Rochester, I get Louisa. She responded to to a message I sent her, but was somewhat private. Her tree is locked:

She thinks we connect on the Simon Hathaway Line. However, that would make us 7th cousins if she is in the same generation as me from Simon Hathaway. That is pretty far out there for a DNA match of 34 cM. Ancestry expects us to be on the order of 4th cousins based on the amount of DNA that Louisa and I share.

Shared Matches that Louisa and I Share

Assuming that Louisa and I share DNA all the way back from Simon Hathaway and Hannah Clifton, our shared matches could be along that line also.

Gloria is the first shared match I have with Louisa with a useful tree:

Gloria’s second great grandmother is Susan Hathaway born in 1849. As Susan seems stuck at that point, I hesitate to try to figure out who she is. So I am stuck here. Susan had a son named Rufus and there was a Rufus Hathaway who lived not far from where I lived in Massachusetts, but I am stuck on Gloria right now.

Searching for Wareham Hathaway Ancestors with DNA Matches

Next, I’ll go back to my Wareham search that I mentioned above. The first person I find who I don’t already know about is Carol. Carol has a Rebecca Hathaway in her tree:

I found her death record at Ancestry:

Her married name was transcribed as Leaver and I can see why. Here are her parents:

I just have to make the connection to a common ancestor. This will also force me to build out my Ancestry Tree. Based on 139 Ancestry Trees, David’s parents were Salathiel and Lovey:

Here is how Carol and I match as 7th cousins:

It’s a double Hathaway match as Lovey in Carol’s line married Salathiel Hathaway. Salathiel was son of Thomas, so of Arthur. Our common ancestor Simon was also a son of Arthur but from a different wife. I won’t chart that out for the sake of simplicity. I think that means that Salathiel and Lovey were half first cousins once removed! If I add Rebecca Hathaway to my tree, Ancestry will probably see the connection.

Actually, I left out David on Carol’s side:

Back to Wealthy Hathaway

I can add a Wealthy Branch to the tree:

I could also call this the Bradford Branch. On the right side where I am, Annie Snell and James Hartley had 13 children. So I won’t add all those. Patricia also descends from that couple on her mother’s side.

Skot

I wrote a Blog about Skot here. In that Blog I gave more in-depth analysis of Hathaway DNA.

Nadine

I also have a small DNA match with Nadine at Ancestry. Her tree appears to be on the same Lovey/Salathiel Branch. Nadine’s tree stops at Jonathan Hathaway:

Jonathan was one of 11, so there was a good chance that I would be matching some of those descendants.

Looking at My Brother Jon’s Matches

I have four other siblings tested at Ancestry. My brother Jon matches WW by DNA. WW’s tree stops at Simon Hathaway, but Ancestry shows that WW’s Simon is the son of my ancestors Simon Hathaway and Hannah Clifton:

WW is interesting as she has Pitts descendants:

WW’s Ancestry Solves Gloria’s Ancestry with DNA Matches as Supporting Evidence

Remember, I got stuck about on Gloria’s genealogy. Here is how Gloria most likely fits in:

 

Simon above who was son and grandson of Simon’s Hathaway was born in Rochester, MA and died in Florida. Susan Hathaway must be the sister of Mary Hathaway. Mary marries William Pitts and Susan marries John Pitts. That means that Gloria and WW are my 6th cousins once removed. It’s cool that DNA picked up Simon Hathaway who moved from Rochester to Alabama and Florida around 175 years ago.

Jon and Tami

When I look for Jon’s DNA with a search for Hathaway ancestors from Rochester, MA, I get Tami. Tami is from the Holmes, Florida Branch of Hathaway’s:

Based on WW’s Ancestry Tree, Simon W Hathaway bought 199 acres of land in the Tallahassee area of Florida:

Tami helps build out the Florida Branch nicely:

My Sister Lori and Alyssa

Ancestry doesn’t pick up a common ancestor here, but I think I see one:

I descend from David Hathaway and Priscilla Hiller. Here is that Line:

Alyssa also added her DNA to Gedmatch which is important for analysis. Here is where she matches my sister Lori on Chromosome 2:

The match is fairly low, so it is difficult to tell how significant this DNA match is. However, the genealogical connection is probably quite good, so the DNA match is not as important as, say, with Gloria, where some of the genealogical records appear to be missing.

Lori and Thomas

Here I have added Thomas and Lori:

Joyce, My Father’s Cousin’s Hathaway DNA Matches

Joyce is a generation away from me, so should have more Hathaway DNA. Joyce matches AH:

AH’s tree ends at Salathiel and Lovey Hathaway. I’ll add AH and Joyce to my tree. Actually it is not that easy as it shows Salathiel born in 1836 being the father of Thomas Hathaway born in 1789. That’s not good. I better make my own tree:

My tree goes out to an Isaac Hathaway Jr. That would give a hint as to the father. AH’s tree has Thomas Hathaway as the father of Isaac Hathaway. On Edward’s marriage record, it shows that his father was a Junior:

This record of Intentions is for Isaac Hathaway Jr.:

Short story is that it seems like AH should be in the David Hathaway Line:

That would make Joyce and AH 5th cousins if I have it right.

Joyce’s ThruLines with David Hathaway

ThruLines are a sort of short cut. Ancestry tries to make the connections that I am trying to make by computer matching and DNA matching:

Ancestry wants me to evaluate these, but they look alright to me. The only problem is that Ancestry shows Charlotte as a half 5th cousin and she should be a full 5th cousin to Joyce. Here they are on my Chart:

If all these people had uploaded their DNA results to Gedmatch, I would be able to tell how they match each other and it would give more evidence for this tree.

More Rochester Hathaway DNA Matches for Joyce

When I look for common DNA matches and common Rochester Hathaway ancestors for Joyce, I find Katherine:

Edwin looks familiar from AH’s tree, so I’ll add Katherine to my tree:

Katherine brings the David Hathaway/Priscilla Hiller tree down an additional generation. So the skinny little tree I had at the top of the Blog has filled out quite a bit. This is a composite tree with DNA matches from myself my siblings and Joyce so far.

Joyce and Joyce

Joyce’s match Joyce is from the Salathiel/Lovey Hathaway Line. When I add Joyce, I can take out Thomas. AH had him as an ancestor, but I didn’t think that was correct:

This will fix the Savery Branch. Savery was the brother of my ancestor David Hathaway:

This shows that Joyce is a 4th cousin to my high school friend, Skot.

Joyce and Cynthia

Cynthia is on the Hathaway/Bradford LIne:

Joyce and AF

AF goes back to Simon Hathaway and Hannah Clifton through their daughter, Rebecca:

So far I have only descendants of Simon’s three sons, so this is a new line.

Joyce with Bradford and Catherine

Bradford and Catherine add to the Salathiel/Lovey Line.

Joyce has a DNA Match with MD on the David Hathaway Line

Here is an update of the progress so far:

This shows Simon Hathaway at the top with three sons and a daughter. The David Hathaway line has the most descendants as that is the line that I come from and am comparing. All of these people have a DNA match to me, one of my siblings or to my father’s first cousin Joyce.

Joyce Matches Melanie on the Simon LIne

Melanie is the last DNA match for Joyce with an easily identifiable common Hathaway ancestor.

My Dad’s First Cousin Maury

My cousin tested her dad at AncestryDNA and gave me access to the results. He should match many of the same Hathaway descendants plus a few new ones. When I do the find DNA matches of Hathaway ancestors from Wareham, I get DM. I don’t recognize DM from previous searches. DM has ancestors on the Simon side:

I’ll have to add Maury to my Chart also. Here is how the DNA match works:

Both Maury and DM both likely got the same slice of DNA from Simon Hathaway or his wife Hannah Clifton. DM is on the Simon Hathaway Line that ended up in Florida in the 1800’s.

Maury and HI

HI goes back to my David Hiller ancestor:

Maury’s ThruLines

These are some of the DNA matches and genealogical matches that Ancestry came up with:

I just added HI and already have JH, but I can add in Eli and Janet.

Maury’s Match to Carolyn on the Lovey Branch

My DNA Hathaway Chart

This is what I came up with as a result of this Blog:

These are some of the descendants of Simon Hathaway and Hannah Clifton that have DNA matches with me, my siblings and my father’s two cousins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Penny’s Frazer ThruLines

My last Blog on Penny is here. That was prior to ThruLines. I also wrote a Blog on Penny’s sister Toni here. Toni’s DNA is not linked to her tree, so she does not have ThruLines.

Penny’s Genealogy

Penny is in red in the lower left. She descends for William Fitzgerald Frazer. This tree is based on research by Frazer researcher, Joanna.

William Fitzgerald Frazer Born 1821 Ireland

I am interested in William Fitzgerald Frazer:

Penny mentions a biography in her Ancestry Tree:

This was from An illustrated history of Sacramento County, California. Containing a history of Sacramento County from the earliest period of its occupancy to the present time published in 1890. Penny further gives this chronology for William:

This raises questions as to the mother of the first three children. Penny also mentions another daughter Angelina G Frazer as mentioned in William’s will. She is named as Angeline G Law. That gives a hint:

In 1911, Angelina is listed as Gracella. I assume that was her middle name:

This puts William Fitzgerald in Leitrim in the 1840’s. Here is another interesting record:

In this record Angelina “Gracenda” is listed as Augustine. Here is Angelina’s wedding publication from 1872 – not long after her father’s divorce:

This more specifically puts William in Drumkeerin:

That means that William Fitzgerald Frazer lived in Drumkeeran. He had Angelina Gracenda around 1843. His second daughter appears to have been Mary Ann Frazer. Penny has her born in 1844.

Mary Ann Frazer

Mary Ann married in 1864:

About a year later, these two were living in Poughkeepsie, New York:

Thomas Quinton may be William’s father. Margaret Frazier is Mary A’s sister. Poughkeepsie is on the Hudson River:

How Can the DNA Help Us?

Right now on the James side of the Frazer Tree, descendants have been placed into two main branches:

There is an Archibald Branch on the left where Penny is. There is a Michael Branch on the right. There is an Elizabeth branch in the middle also. However, her daughter Catherine Knott married Archibald believed to be the son of Michael on the right side. We can use the DNA matches to test the genealogies above. First, I try to see if the DNA supports that the people within the box on the left match each other. Then I see if they match the people in the box on the right at the appropriate levels.

Penny’s ThruLines

Penny’s first cousin level ThruLines are good:

89% of the time Penelope’s match with Pamela should be a 1st cousin once removed or similar relationship:

Penny’s ThruLines with William Fitzgerald Frazer

At Penny’s Frazer great grandparent level there are no new ThruLines. There are some at the 2nd great-grandparent level:

These matches are from the descendants of Mary Ann Frazer. I’ll start a chart for Penn y:

Penny and Frazer Third Great-grandfather ThruLines

This part goes beyond Penny’s Ancestry Tree to work that Frazer reasearcher Joanna has done:

Here there are 7 matches to Penny on the Thomas Henry Frazer Line. Joanna has that Thomas Henry Frazer was born in Drumkeerin, so there is that connection. Joanna is on the Edward F Frazer Branch. I should point out that Penny has no matches on the Edward Wynn Branch:

Edward Wynn is the brother in the middle group above.

Penny’s Distant ThruLines

When I put the common ancestor up two more generations to James Frazer born about 1720, I pick up two additional matches for Penny:

These two matches were recently added under Michael to explain DNA matches. It would make sense that Penny could match these two, as the theory is that Mary married William Frazer:

Adding Penny’s ThruLines to Madeline’s and Charlotte’s

Although Penny doesn’t share any ThruLine matches with Madeline and Charlotte, they both match some of the same matches as shown in blue below:

I think that Charlotte’s match to JS above is really Janet. The question is: if Penny, Charlotte and Madeline have many of the same ThruLines, then why doesn’t Penny match Charlotte and Madeline? I suppose there could be many explanations:

  • The common ancestor is Archibald born 1792. Charlotte and Madeline may be related on the Archibald side and Penny may be related on Archibald’s wife’s side. That would result in Penny not matching Charlotte and Madeline.
  • Another variation of that is that Archibald may have had more than one wife. Penny may descend from one wife and Charlotte and Madeline from another.
  • It may be that we have the genealogy wrong.
  • There may be other connections on collateral lines.

Adding In Joanna

If I add in Joanna to the mix, I’ll have representatives from the three brothers:

 

These are William Fitzgerald, Edward Wynn Frazer and Thomas Henry Frazer (Joanna’s great-grandfather). Here is a partial list of Joanna’s ThruLines:

I’m more interested in the matches at the third cousin level. Here we have the two brothers plus Ann. The third brother doesn’t show here as he shows at the 2nd cousin level for Joanna. For some reason, the ThruLines seemed to skip a generationbetween William Fitzgerald 1821 and Minnie Jane born 1895. I have written quite a bit about the McPartland Branch. They have the Ancestor Ann Frazer who has been difficult to place. Joanna has made a guess that she was the daughter of her 2nd great-grandfather Archibald born 1792. I have been going back and forth as to whether Ann should be under Archibald or Michael Frazer.

Another interesting point is that Edward Archibald born 1867 ended up in Poughkeepsie, NY where Mary A Frazer Quinton and Margaret Jane Frazer lived in 1855. I don’t know if this is a coincidence or not.

I see that Joanna matches WG. WG is on the Edward Wynn Branch where Madeline and Charlotte are. Joanna has a good match with WG but Madeline and Charlotte do not. This may be a coincidence, but I would keep my eye on this situation. For Charlotte and Madeline the level that they match WG indicates a second cousin once removed only <1% of the time:

I added WG into the tree here:

Joanna and James of Clerragh

I didn’t see any additional ThruLines for Joanna at her Archibald/Peyton level. However, there are some new ones at the level of James of Clerragh:

The odd thing with this ThruLine is that Archibald born 1690 who is usally the father of James of Clerragh is shown as James’ son. However, the relationship shown is correct at 2nd cousin once removed.

When I add the results in with the others, I get this:

Those are a lot of numbers to look at. Basically:

  • Penny had no ThruLine matches at her 2nd cousin level.
  • Joanna shows good match levels at the 2nd cousin level. That is, except with Chris
  • Madeline and Charlotte show poor 2nd cousin match levels. However, the matches are just with one person. Perhaps there are not many descendants on this line who have had their DNA tested.
  • At the third cousin level out of all the matches, there are no perfect scores. I am not sure why that is. If I add up all the percentages for the relationships and divide by the top percentages in the third cousin range, I get 42%. As these ThruLines are somewhat new, I don’t know how usual or unusual that is. The results seem anemic to me. It is as if Archibald Frazer had each of his sons by different wives.

Here are the rest of the results:

At the fourth cousin level, Penny has matches with the Thomas Henry Branch, but not the Edward Wynn Branch.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Looking back at my Blog on Penny’s sister Toni, it appears that Toni had better Frazer matches. However, Toni has not linked her DNA to her Ancestry Tree and therefor does not show up on ThruLines.
  • If Toni links her DNA to her Ancestry Tree, we should get a fuller picture of the situation.
  • I had fun getting a better understanding of Penny and Toni’s genealogy.
  • Perhaps as a result of Penny’s less than average matches on the Frazer side, the DNA matches looked a bit anemic.
  • However, having said that, at the third cousin level there are a lot of matches under Archibald Frazer born in 1792. However, they appear to be all less than perfect matches, with only one match that I see that is above average. That is the match between Charlotte and Gail at 97 cM.
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Esther’s Newfoundland ThruLines at AncestryDNA

Esther is my wife’s 1/2 great Aunt and has Newfoundland Ancestry on both sides. AncestryDNA’s ThruLines takes DNA matches and matches those up with Ancestry Tree matches. Let’s take a look at Esther’s ThruLines to see what they show.

Esther’s Parents

Here are Esther’s Parents:

Here are the ThruLines for Fred Upshall:

These people are not related on the Shave side, so the relationships show correctly as half relationships. These people are my mother in law, Joan, her sister Elaine, my wife Marie and Marie’s niece Tina. These four should show up in Esther’s more distant Upshall side ThruLines.

Esther’s Grandparents

 

Very quickly, Esther is back to 1841 with her Upshall grandfather. I am more interested in the Upshall and Dicks side as that is the side where my wife and her mother are related.

Here are the Henry Upshall ThruLines:

On the right is Karen. I have written Blogs about her family. I put her great-grandmother Jessie as the daughter of Henry Upshall based on DNA evidence even though there was no genealogical evidence. This was a bit dicey, but based on the amount of DNA shared between Esther and Karen, it seems like the right thing to do. According to Ancestry DNA, that amount of shared DNA is most likely to be a 1st cousin, twice removed relationship:

Nicholas and Esther

How does Nicholas fit in? For one thing, 1st cousin four times removed goes right off the chart:

I would think that a 1st cousin four times removed would be similar to the 2nd cousin once removed. Either way, the chances of this being right are <1% according to AncestryDNA.

Nicholas’ Genealogy

Here is the expanded view of ThruLines:

One problem is that Nicholas’ parents and grandparents are shown as living, so I don’t have information on them. Nicholas’ tree is managed by Kara. She has Gladys Uppshall Knight as Nicholas’ maternal great-grandmother. From there, Stephanie’s tree kicks in with Theodore the father of Gladys.

Here is the 1935 Census for St John’s West:

The assumption is that this is the same Gladys in 1945:

Here is a replacement birth record for Malcolm:

This shows that Malcolm’s mother was a Shave. That makes it more surprising that Esther and Nicholas don’t have more matching DNA as Esther’s mother was a Shave.

Here is another after the fact record for Malcolm’s brother:

This could be William in the 1945 Census living next to his brother:

Was Alexander the Son of Henry Upshall?

I have it that way on my Ancestry Tree, but not on my Upshall Web Page. I don’t see any genealogical evidence that would put Alexander as the son of Henry Upshall. It is that way in some on-line Trees. Based on the low amount of DNA match and the shaky genealogical evidence, I would call into question this particular ThruLine at this time.

Esther’s Upshall Great-Grandparents

Here, things get more interesting as there is no known genealogical evidence for Esther’s great-grandparents. These ancestors are a best guess scenario. Here are the ThruLines for best-guess Peter Upshall:

At first look, it seems as though there are a lot of different DNA matches for these likely children of Peter Upshall.

George Upshall Branch 1829

Here, note that Pat, like Nicholas has Shave and Upshall in her ancestry. I note she also has Burton which Eshter has, so perhaps other names also. 280 cM is a huge match for a 2nd cousin twice removed:

Ancestry says that Pat and Esther look like 2nd cousins. However, that is assuming that they are not related on other lines which they are.  For comparison, I had mentioned above that Nicholas’ match to Esther should have been equivalent to a 2nd cousin once removed. Another thing I’d like to do is to see if these people have shared matches with each other. I note that Nicholas does not have a shared match with Pat. That means that he shares less than 20 cM with Pat.

Checking with Joan and Elaine

One way to check these matches is by Joan and Elaine. They are Esther’s half nieces. That means that they match on the Upshall side and not the Shave side. Here is what Joan shows:

Now the DNA matches are quite a bit different. When I look at the numbers for Joan and her sister Elaine, I get this for the proposed George Upshall Branch:

Sarah Upshall Branch 1831

Here Esther has 10 DNA matches on the Sarah Upshall Collett Branch:

Here are the results for Eshter, Joan and Elaine:

  • I added in a Maximum % column, so we could see what the highest likelihood is for the DNA match
  • Green indicates that the DNA matches got that highest mark
  • This seems to indicate that Esther does not match this Sarah Upshall Collett on other lines.
  • None of the numbers seem unreasonable. The <1% can be explained by matching on many other lines and getting too high of a match.
  • Joan and Elaine match Sarah and Esther doesn’t. That means that Florence (who is Joan and Elaine’s mother) got DNA that her sister Esther did not.
  • Esther went off the chart with the 2nd cousin 4 times removed category.
  • To do this right, I would need to check all the genealogy. I didn’t. The genealogy is likely good up to the children of Peter and Margaret Upshall and then missing.
  • All these numbers seem to confirm that the trees are likely trees.

Jane Upshall Branch

Jane appears to be well documented by DNA. Esther has 14 matches to Jane’s descendants along the Tulk Line. I have noted close matches to Tulk in the past, so this may explain those DNA matches.

Jane also has a rare Upshall birth record:

However, I find it odd that she was born in November and baptized in September. Perhaps she was born in 1838. I assume that there was only one Peter and Margaret Upshall at the time. Burin was about 90 miles away from Harbour Buffett, so I assume there was a travelling minister who performed these baptisms on 29 September 1839. I have that Jane was born in Burin which is not accurate. She was born in Garnish Gut according to this record. I’m not sure where Garnish Gut is, but I assume that it is part of or near Harbour Buffett.

An additional confusing point is that Peter was the father of Christopher Upshall also in 1833:

This means that Peter may have had a first wife Mary or the transcription may have been off. Christopher doesn’t show up on the ThruLines. I don’t see many trees for Christopher. Here is one:

This person shows Margaret as the mother and the birth at Famish Gut which perhaps makes more sense. Perhaps there were few descendants on this line.

So far the matches for the descendants of the three potential children of Peter and Margaret Upshall looks like this:

The evidence looks pretty good. I added Karen from the more recent Henry Upshall Line to show how good her numbers were.

Susan Upshall Born 1848

This Line is a little more confusing:

Roy’s grandmother is Margaret Collett. That begs the question of Elizabeth Webber. Shouldn’t she be a Collett also? Here is some information from http://www.collettfamilyhistory.net/Part-32-The-Newfoundland-Line-Rev.12.htm:

The same web page has this on Elizabeth:

According to this information, Elizabeth Webber is really Elizabeth Collett.

Here is the last of Esther’s ThruLines at this level:

This was a bit of an annoying exercise, but it does seem to verify the trees for the descendants. However, I have not tried to disprove the theory. That would take a bit of work. I do recognize interfering influences of the DNA matches through intermarriage.  I showed some of those effects by comparing Esther’s matches to her half nieces Joan and Elaine. The main interferences could be other relationships with the Dicks, Shave and Burton families. The other thing I didn’t do was to check the genealogy of each line. This would take a while to do. The last confirmation would be to check to see if each of these matches match each other. The best way to do that is with Genetic Affairs’ AutoClusters.

Esther and AutoClusters

Here is a ‘basic’ AutoCluster I ran for Esther.

Esther has all Newfoundland ancestry, so almost all her clusters match other clusters. This AutoCluster ran January 9, 2019 between the match levels of 50 and 250 cM. I checked my Chart above to see which clusters the matches were in:

It turns out that the Jane Upshall Tulk Line were all in Cluster 14. In the other Lines, there was not enough information or the matches were outside the range. However, the other two Clusters found were 8 and 11.

This means that while Esther is matching Cluster 14 by Peter and Margaret Upshall, all the 10 in my Chart are matching each other by Jane Upshall and her Tulk husband.

Esther’s ThruLines With Christopher Dicks Born 1812

Christopher was married to Elizabeth. My best guess is that she was Elizabeth Crann. Esther has 12 new DNA matches on the Christopher Dicks Line. These matches could have gotten their DNA from Christopher Dicks or from his wife Elizabeth or both.

The matches under Catherine Dicks have already been looked at. Compare this with the Gedmatch Tree I have been working on for the Dicks Family:

ThruLines has a David Branch that I don’t have and I have a Christopher Branch that Thrulines doesn’t have.

The David Dicks Branch

Here is a partial opening of that Branch:

One interesting thing here is that Frances is also related to Esther through the Jane Upshall Tulk Line:

That is because Caroline Dicks married Edwin Kingwell Tulk according to the trees at Ancestry.

Cathy in the David Dicks Branch

Here is how ThruLines shows Cathy:

I had Cathy in a different Branch. However, if the ThruLines are right and I am right, she could be in two Dicks Branches of Frances Dicks Burton and Christopher Dicks:

Here is a summary of the David Dicks Branch:

It seems like everything checks out OK. Esther was matching too high to Newf due to matches on Esther’s maternal side. Joan isn’t related to Esther on Esther’s maternal side, so that took the extra DNA out of the equation. I skipped checking Joan’s sister Elaine’s results to save time. Joan matched one person David, who didn’t match Esther.

Going Up One Generation to Christopher Dicks Born about 1784

The Dicks family was huge and then spread out from there.

Here are nine children of Christopher who have matching DNA with Esther:

  1. John Michael – before 1808 – I haven’t been following this Branch. Has some Joseph’s in this Branch
  2. Elizabeth – 1809 – Married Thomas Adams
  3. Joseph – born 1810
  4. Frances born 1811 – Married Charles Burton
  5. Christopher Born 1812 – covered in previous section
  6. Rachel born 1817 – married James Joyce
  7. James Dicks born 1830 – also has a Joseph Dicks son. I haven’t been following this Branch either.
  8. George born 1832
  9. Robert born 1824 – so should be above

I trace six children in my Dicks Gedmatch DNA project. I didn’t have John Michael, James or Joseph. Altogether, there are 77 DNA matches represented in these 8 proposed children. That would be too many matches to check for this Blog.

Joseph Dicks

Although I don’t have Joseph Dicks on my Dicks DNA Chart, I have that Esther descends from Joseph Dicks on her maternal side:

I have Joseph Dicks born at Famish Gut in 1810 to Christopher and Margaret. However, this does not appear on Esther’s ThruLines or on my own Dicks DNA Chart.

I’ll look at the genealogy behind the John Michael and James DIcks Branches as I am unfamiliar with them.

John Michael Dicks Born 1808

The ThruLines Profile for John Michael shows this:

This information is a bit sparse. It shows that John Michael would have been over 105 years old when he died.

In a previous Blog I note this Joseph:

My thought was that this was a more likely ancestor for Esther.

Joseph Dicks and Violet

After changing Esther’s Jane Ann Line, I noticed that ThruLines did have a Joseph Dicks Branch with one large match:

However, this follows from the way I had Esther’s tree. Violet has a huge match with Esther at 359 cM. Here is a much closer relationship between Violet and Esther at 2nd cousin:

My mother-in-law, Joan also has a good match with Violet:

Violet’s Tree

Now I’m suspicious that Tulk may be related to Upshall.

Upshall of Dorset ThruLines

Newfoundland is too complicated with the intermarriages and lost records. Lets go back to Dorset, England:

My current thinking is that Peter Upshall born in 1800 in Dorset was the daughter of Sarah Upshall. Sarah is shown here with three of her siblings. This Dorset, England ThruLines appears to confirm that Sarah was the sister of Joseph, George and Charles who shows a Private above. This is a chance to find out what my wife’s Upshall relatives have been up to since 1737. Judy above is probably in Australia. Margaret’s paternal grandmother was born in England and died in Rhode Island.

The Charles Upshall Branch

Ross and Peter’s parents were both from Dorset, England.

Here is one of the trees I had been working with:

For some reason I am missing the Jane Upshall/Tulk Branch. I also need to go up two levels to John Upshall.

I had previously added an additional sibling Ann Upshall due to a match with my wife’s Aunt Elaine. Due to the fact that none of Peter’s Aunts or Uncles did not live in Newfoundland, my guess is that the DNA matches represent John and Elisabeth Upshall.

Here are some potential siblings to Sarah Upshall that I took from an online Ancestry Upshall Tree:

After quite a bit of typing, I get this:

This is a small version of the Upshall DNA match tree. I didn’t add in Ann Upshall or many of the Newfoundland Upshalls.

Shared DNA Matches

When I check how Judy on the bottom left of the chart above matches Esther, I get these shared DNA matches:

Many of these shared matches are with descendants of Newfoundland Upshalls.

Elaine and Joan’s Hazelbury Bryan Thrulines

One of Elaine’s Hazelbury Bryan Thrulines is with Peter on the Charles Upshall Branch shown above. The other is with Hazel on the Joseph Branch.

It looks like Hazel’s Branch stayed in England while Judy’s branch went to Australia:

Joan also has a ThruLines match with Hazel.

More of Esther’s English Upshall Shared DNA Matches

Elaine and Margaret from the George Upshall Branch have a shared DNA match named Trenton. Trenton has a good sized tree:

Trenton’s father’s mother’s father was Peter Upshall Boutcher. This sounds suspicious. There must be an Upshall in Peter’s ancestry. The Collett Genealogy that I referred to above is very helpful:

Here is one relationship that ThruLines didn’t figure out, but it helped in conjunction with Shared DNA Matches:

Putting the Upshall’s Together

Here I added a representative person from the Upshall/Tulk Branch:

Based on the ThruLines there are over 10 matches each on the Sarah Upshall Collett and Jane Upshall Tulk Branches. So the above tree is just a skeleton.

One Last Shared Match Between Esther and Judy

I don’t want to leave too much low hanging fruit. AU is a shared match with Dorset descendant Judy and Esther. Here is his three person tree and his DNA match:

AU and Esther have a DNA match of 69 cM. Here is Jacob in 1935 in Harbour Buffett:

Edward and Martha married in 1916:

Unfortunately, I soon got stuck at the level of Edward Upshall:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Going Through many of Esther’s ThruLines was a large undertaking. I may have been better off just looking at the Upshall ThruLines.
  • It was helpful have two of Esther’s 1/2 Nieces to compare the results. This is because Esther matches on many intermarried lines and Joan and Elaine only match on Esther’s paternal side.
  • Esther’s ThruLines complemented and expanded upon the previous DNA work I have done on the Upshall and Dicks Families.
  • I compared Esther’s Upshall ThruLines with her AutoCluster results. The Jane Upshall/Tulk Line showed clearly in one of Esther’s Clusters.
  • I brought Esther’s ThruLines back to John Upshall born 1737 in Dorset, England and his wife Elisabeth Ellis. To me, the results clearly show that Esther descends through John Upshall and his daughter Sarah Upshall to Peter Upshall who was an early settler in Newfoundland in the Harbour Buffett area.
  • I was a little surprised that Esther had four DNA matches going back to a common ancestor who was born in 1737
  • ThruLines work well with Shared DNA Matches. I was able to find at least one new Upshall Line using Shared Matches to ThruLine Matches.
  • In the future, I would like to concentrate more on the Upshall Branches and build them out in my Excel spreadsheet.
  • It may be helpful to also check to see how many Upshall descendants have their DNA at Gedmatch, FTDNA and MyHeritage. This would allow for more detailed DNA analysis.
  • ThruLines are able to put together many trees and DNA matches in order to see a possible big picture solution to some genealogical problems.