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My First MyHeritage AutoCluster Analysis

This is a busy time for genetic genealogists. Companies seem to be competing with each other to get out new products. Genetic Affairs has been a leader in clustering analysis. They perform detailed clusterings for AncestryDNA, FTDNA and 23andMe. Their MyHeritage (MH) cluster analysis is a little different as it is done within MH. One set report is created and the detailed file of the segment information is not sent.

I got 100 people in the clusters. The thresholds were between 30 and 350 cM. The matching threshold for my matches matching each other was set at 20 cM.  These clusters were done in the old way in that the largest clusters were firs and the smallest last. There is no clustering of clusters. A first look at the AutoClustering shows that Clusters 2 and 3 match each other. There is also some affinity between Clusters 2 and 3 and Clusters 7, 9, 11 and 12. Colors now repeat every 12 clusters as opposed to the previous 10.

Identifying MY Clusters

I am familiar with many of the names already and have written Blogs about them. I’m going to first look at the low-hanging fruit and put them into a spreadsheet:

I only found two grandparent (GP) lines. I notice German and Russian names in Cluster 4 which is probably Rathfelder GP.

Splitting Apart Clusters 7 and 17

I have been working on Frazer DNA for a long time. As a result, I may be able to split Clusters 7 and 17, Note that I have the same common ancestor in Clusters 7 and 17. However, that is for Emily and Paul. Gladys has a different common ancestor.

 

This shows that Gladys has no known McMaster ancestor. This means that Cluster 17 should not include McMaster. I don’t think that I know that Cluster 7 is McMaster for sure, but it is more likely McMaster.

Clusters 6 and 16

Clusters 6 and 16 don’t separate as easily:

Ron, Stephen and my family share Clarke and Spratt ancestry. However, at a generation or so further back, we all share McMaster ancestry. It would take finding another common ancestor from someone in one of the clusters to further separate these out. Cluster 16 is interesting because the two other people who match Stephen have their ancestry in England. It is likely that Clarke and/or Spratt had English roots. McMaster was in Ireland for quite a time, so Cluster 16 is not likely a McMaster Cluster.

Red Cluster 1

I can identify Cluster 1 – at least at my GP level. One of the matches is JL. JL shows up when I do a ‘One to Many’ query on my paternally phased kit at Gedmatch:

This corresponds with my Hartley GP Line:

In the past, I have associated this match with my Massachusetts Colonial Heritage. This heritage is through my Snell side:

Here I added England in the notes for Cluster 16 from my previous section. I added Hartley in blue with information back to my Snell and Bradford 2nd great grandparents. Both these 2nd great-grandparents have Massachusetts Colonial ancestors.

I Need a Fourth Grandparent – Maternal Grandmother

Beth is the one I call my anchor DNA match. I have blogged about Beth here.

The other two matches in Cluster 15 have ancestors from England. It would take a bit of sleuthing and research to find the connections.

I now show all four grandparent clusters.

All I have to do is figure out the other clusters.

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My Mom’s MyHeritage Theories of Family Relativity

My mom has two Theories of Family Relativity (ToFRs) at MyHeritage (MH). One is on her father’s German/Latvian side and one is on her mother’s Philadelphia side. Let’s take a look.

Mom and Wolf: A German/Latvian Match

My mom’s dad was not Latvian, but was a German who lived in Latvia. I had written a Blog on Wolf here. In that Blog, I had noted many German-Latvian connections, so I was interested to see what MH’s ToFR would show.

For some reason, in my Blog, I had a heading for Biedermann, but under it, I show a connection to Biedenbinder. It looks like I mixed up my Biedermann and Biedenbinder. I did mention problems in the Biedermann line later in my Blog. However, Wolf has two Biedermann Lines and the one above is not the one I mention in my Blog.

Wolf has an impressive tree. The four in the first row are Wolf’s maternal great-grandparents. Anna Biedermann is shown above in the ToFR. The problem with Elisabeth is that she would have been 15 when her son was born. However, I found a possible birth record for Elisabeth that showed she could have been born in 1854.

Do My Records Match with MH Records on Biedermann?

First, it appears that MH agrees with Wolf’s tree – or more likely accepted his tree.

Here is my mother’s tree at MH:

 

In the ToFR, Jacobine Lutke is shown as private for some reason. Then ToFR shows Anna E.J. Biedermann as the mother of Jacobine. I have her as the mother-in-law of Jacobine! Now I don’t feel so bad about mixing up Biedermann and Biedenbinder in my previous Blog.

A Possible Fix for MH

If I see it right, if I replace Jacobine with her husband Philipp Gangnus on my mother’s side of the tree, this should work out.

I have the two common ancestors in my Ancestry Tree, but not in my MH tree, so I will say that I agree with this tree.

A Gladys – Wolf Common Ancestor Summary

I found three common ancestors in my previous Blog and MH found another one (Biedermann):

You have a lot of common ancestors with someone when you need a spreadsheet to keep track of them all. I should note that it is possible that Biedermann is in there twice due to Wolf having two Biedermann Lines. Coincidentally (or not) Wolf matches my Mom at 5 segments at MH:

Three of the five segments are in the 6 cM range.

MH Redeems Itself for My German Latvian Biedermann Ancestor

I had not previously noticed the highlighted hyperlink shown below:

This purple hyperlink leads to Theory 2 which agrees with my orange rendering above. Theory 2 was based on 5 Paths. That just means that 5 trees agreed with Theory 2. There was only 1 Path (or Tree) for Theory 1. I’m not sure why MH didn’t put the 5 Path Theory as Theory 1.  Note to self: Pay attention to purple hyperlinks at MH in the future.

Mom and Annette: The Philadelphia Connection

Let’s hope there are no bumps in the road for this ToFR.

One cool thing I notice is that Gladys and Annette’s mothers were both born in 1900. Another interesting thing is htat Annette’s grandfather is George Washington Slater. On Gladys’ side, Mary Baker was married to George Washington Lentz. It took me a long time and a lot of work to get a last name for my mom’s Mary. I just checked Ancestry and noticed this record that someone posted:

This record gives the name of both of Mary Baker’s parents. I may have already had this record. I have mentioned Annette previously in this Blog.

Summary and Conclusions

  • My mother has two ToFRs. They both proved to be valid.
  • My mother’s German Latvian ToFR appeared to be a problem. That was until I found a hyperlink that showed a more reasonable version of herToFR.
  • The ToFR was helpful as I had missed the Biedermann common ancestors with Wolf the first time I looked at the connection. I was focusing on only one of two of Wolf’s Biedermann Lines.

 

 

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My Brother’s MyHeritage Theory of Family Relativity Leads to Lancashire

I am finding MyHeritage’s Theory of Family Relativity interesting. I looked at a few of “Theories” in a previous Blog, and will now look at my brother Jim’s. My brother JIm has six matches under MyHeritage’s (MH’s) Theory program. Three are ones that I have. Of those three two are mother and daughter. The three matches that Jim has that I don’t have all appear to be related to each other also.

Jim and Marcus at MH

Here is how MH shows Jim and Marcus’ merged trees:

Unfortunately, these two trees don’t seem to match well. How could Mary Pilling and Betty Wilkinson be sisters? When I look at MH’s full Theory, I see this:

Marcus shows Mary Pilling in his tree, but I don’t know how she is connected and I see no parents listed for Mary in Marcus’ tree.

Jim and Marcus: the DNA

I’ll look at Jim and Marcus’ DNA and then get back to the genealogy. Jim’s best match with Marcus is on Chromosome 1 shown in yellow below and circled:

Jim and Marcus also triangulate with Stanley who is from Great Britain and shows as the red match. Marcus is from Australia.

This Chromosome map below shows that Jim has Hartley DNA in the part of Chromosome 1 where he matches Marcus:

When I look at Jim’s match spreadsheet, I find that Marcus also appears at Ancestry, FTDNA and Gedmatch. I have been in touch with Marcus at Ancestry, though it is difficult to retrieve old messages there. Marcus wrote me in 2017:

I have a James Moorhouse born Bacup c1830, son of John Moorehouse and Betty Wilkinson. While the names are shared, I can’t make the connection fit correctly. I would love to identify this MRCA. cheers Marcus

Building a Tree for Stanley

Stanley, Marcus and Jim triangulate meaning that those three should have a common ancestor somewhere. So I’ll try building out Stanley’s tree to see if there is a connection. Here is Stanley’s tree:

Here is my version:

Ancestry has a lot of hints, but I am wary of Ancestry’s hints. Here is the family in 1939:

The family was living with a daughter, but I didn’t include her for possible privacy reasons. The family was in Stainforth. That leads me to the 1901 Census:

Here is Thomas as part of a large family in Stainforth, living on a farm. Here is Stainforth:

I am trying to make a connection to my Lancashire ancestors from Colne or Bacup. Muriel was born further North in Westmoreland, so I’ll stick to the Towler side for now. As I build out Stanley’s paternal side, I get this:

Somehow Nancy Berry pops up from all the Yorkshire ancestors as being from Colne. I also see a Wilkonson, but she is living in Yorkshire. I’m not too excited about the Wilkinson name as I don’t descend from the Wilkinson family. My Pilling ancestor married a Hartley, then a Wilkinson, so Wilkinsons were half siblings to my Hartley ancestors.

I don’t think Nancy died in 1825, because I see this entry in Giggleswick, Yorkshire:

Let’s not bury her yet.

Here is Nancy in 1841 when her husband was still alive:

The 1841 Census taker has Nancy born in Yorkshire which is apparently wrong.

Two Nancy Berry’s at Colne Parish

Noyna End is to the East of Foulridge. Great Marsden is to the West of Trawden.

Now that I’ve shown that Stanley’s tree goes back to Colne, can I show the same for Marcus’ tree?

Looking at Marcus’ Tree

I followed Marcus’ tree out to where it appeared the match with my family should be. There was a sticky point at Walter Humphreys. Ancestry wanted me to add a different father named Snook. However, I went with Marcus’ tree:

Here is information from one of the Ancestry Snook trees:

There must be some sort of Snook/Moorehouse debate going on somewhere.

James Moorehouse (1830-1886)

I’m still getting Snook suggestions for the parents of James Moorehouse, so I’ll take a look at James on my own.  Marcus has him born in Bacap, which I believe should be Bacup as that is where some of my ancestors came from.  Using the Lancashire OnLine Parish Clerks, I find this:

The only difference is in the Moorehouse/Moorhouse spelling. This appears to be James’ parents’ marriage record:

Here is the family in 1841 living at ‘Lower Crossrow’:

Lower Crossrow appears to be a location in Bacup.

Betty Wilkinson

I have Ancestry hints for the parents of Marcus’ Betty Wilson:

and:

I’m not sure about the Moses Wilkinson from Tynemouth. This would be quite far from Trawden.

Here is what I have at my Willkinson web page:

The biggest problem with merging these two trees is that I show Betty marrying Robert Stansfield. Here is the marriage of Betty Wilkinson and Robert:

Here is a marriage for Moses Wilkinson and Jane Shaw:

This could be Jane’s baptism:

If this is the right person, she would have been baptized at a rather obscure Inghamite Church in Winewall which was part of Trawden. This is where my Hartley ancestors were from. So, nobody sneeze as this is quite the house of cards!

This is probably John and Jane:

More on Marcus’ Betty Wilkinson

There is one record that would indicate that Marcus’ Betty was from Bacup and not Trawden. The marriage record from St. Nicholas, Newchurch in Rossendale states that both bride and groom were “…in this Chapelry”.

The 1851 Census would have been helpful, but it appears that Betty had died by this time. John Moorhouse, said to be born in Burnley is a widow at this time. Although there is a connection between Trawden and Bacup for my Hartley ancestors and their half sibling Wilkinson not too long before the 1851 Census, there is no reason to believe that Betty Wilkinson would have moved from Trawden to Bacup before her supposed marriage to Moorehouse in 1820.

Assuming that Betty was from the Newchurch Chapelry, this could be her birth record:

It would have been customary for Betty to name her second son after her father. That could have been the case with her second son George:

According to Google Maps, here is Heap Clough to the West of Bacup and Haslingden:

Here is an older map:

I have also circled Goodshaw where another of my ancestors (Emmet) was born:

I note that my ancestors Edmund/Emmot and Mary Omerod married at St. James. This is the same place as I have the probable baptism of Betty Wilkinson about 45 years later.

Following Up On Betty Wilkinson of Haslingden

Here is a candidate for Marcus’ potential ancestors:

This could be the same George:

That would put George at just under 20 at the time he married. I think that Grain is Haslingden Grane. Grane looks to be across the street from Heap Clough:

Here is my guess for Mary Duckworth:

However, there was another Mary Duckworth born less than a year before this in the same Church. I’m guessing Heap Clough is right. Here are the likely parents:

I’m starting to get a tree for Betty Wilkinson:

I have two choices for Jonathan Duckworth:

Grane sounds familiar.

Here is the marriage for George and Betty Haworth:

A Haworth/Howorth Connection?

I have Howorth ancestors from the Bacup area.

I’ve already mentioned Edmund Emmet. James Howorth is shown above also. Another interesting thing is that Ancestry is suggesting this mother for George Wilkinson:

This is just about outside the reach of DNA matches. The Ancestry hint could correspond with this birth:

And this marriage:

 

So Where Am I?

  1. My brother Jim, Marcus and Stanley triangulate with their DNA matches. That means that they likely have a common ancestor. However, it may go back quite a way.
  2. I took Stanley’s tree back to a Nancy Berry. There were two Nancy Berry’s baptized in the Colne Parish Church around the time of Stanley’s Nancy in the 1770’s.
  3. I looked at Marcus’ genealogy tree and see that he had a Betty Wilkinson who could be the Betty Wilkinson I have at my Wilkinson website. However, this Betty would not be my direct descendant. My direct descendant married Betty’s brother Robert after my male direct descendant died.
  4. I decided that Marcus’ Betty Wilkinson was more likely a native of the Bacup area. I found a Betty Wilkinson from Heap Clough to the West of Haslingden.
  5. I traced Betty’s lineage back as well as I could. Heap Clough is not too far where some of my Emmet ancestors were from. I also found a Haworth and Howorth. I descend from Howorth in Bacup. I have not found where they lived before Bacup.
  6. So while I favor a Bacup area connection between Marcus’s family and mine, that doesn’t account for how Stanley ties in. As I guessed, it is likely far back – as in the late 1600’s or early 1700’s.

Summary and Conclusions

  • MH’s new Theory of Family Relativity resulted in my taking a fresh look at a DNA match who had a good tree.
  • It is still a bit unclear to me how MH’s Theory made Mary Pilling and Betty Wilkinson look like sisters given the trees I have seen.
  • As with many other genetic genealogy problems, I feel I am getting closer to a breakthrough, but I don’t quite get there.
  • I would say that the new information is that I have brought in a third person whose DNA triangulates with mine and Marcus’. His name is Stanley. Our three genealogical lines appeared to converge on Colne Parish in the mid- 1700’s, but as always, there are uncertainties.
  • A more likely candidate for Marcus’ Betty is Betty Wilkinson of Heap Clough, Haslingden of the St. James Parish. If I brought her ancestry back correctly, she has Haworth and Howorth ancestry. It is possible that one or both of these families are related to my Howorth ancestors.

 

 

 

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Checking Out a New Frazer ThruLine Match at AncestryDNA

Since the new ThruLine program came out, I have taken a look at some of the hints there.

Hey, look. There is my head with ancestor lines going through it.

My Ancestor, Michael Frazer?

I have been working on a Frazer DNA project for about 4 years now and have not created a connection with Michael Frazer that I can vefify. I am related to many Frazers on two different lines starting in the early 1700’s. Those two main lines are Archibald Frazer and James Frazer. I am related to many on the Archibald Line. I am also related by DNA more distantly to the James Line, but I have been unable to figure out the exact connection. I can get about this far:

This line goes through my Frazer side to my McMaster side and then back to Margaret Frazer at the top. My notes have William McMaster and Margaret Frazer marrying in 1813, so I’ll say she was born around 1792.

 The ThruLine Connection Was

My original connection looked like this:

This showed me matching through Susan up to Michael Frazer. Now I can’t find Susan as she has disappeared as my ThruLines connection to Michael Frazer. I wonder if she will re-appear. Perhaps ThruLines is still in flux or Susan changed her tree. The interesting thing about the connection was that Susan’s tree stopped at James Hazard and mine stopped at Margaret Frazer, but somehow Ancestry made the connection to Michael Frazer at the top.

Now my connection to Michael Frazer looks like this:

 

Now I’m connected through Keith and at one level lower in our connected family tree. Keith also lacks Michael Frazer in his tree, so how was the connection made?

More On Michael Frazer Trees

When I go to Michael Frazer on my tree, I see some hints. One of those hints leads to Joanna’s tree – among many other trees. Joanna has this:

Joanna shows Margaret Frazer as daughter of Michael Frazer and Margaret Stewart and married to William McMaster. Joanna also mentions a Marriage in 1813. However, how the connection was made between Margaret Frazer and Michael Frazer is unclear. My guess is that Ancestry grabbed Joanna’s tree and applied it to me. I asked Joanna if this was an educated guess on her part and that seems to be the case.

Looking for Susan

I was able to find Susan by searching by her last name. Here is the tree that Susan has:

The names of Johnston and Hazzard sound familiar in Frazer genealogy. However, I am having some problems getting past James Hazard or Hazzard or Hassard before 1877.

My Sister’s Connection to Michael Frazer

I note that my sister Heidi also has a connection to Michael Frazer:

Here Richard is showing as descending from Patrick – a different son of Michael. Here is Richard’s tree:

Richard’s tree stops with his paternal great-grandmother Daisy Belle Frazer. However the connection above shows more:

The note under George H Frazer says that he is from lulu’s tree. That means that ThruLines takes the DNA match between Heidi and Richard and applies lulu’s tree to Richard to make the connection.

Summary of Michael Frazer and ThruLines

  • I found an interesting connection between Susan and myself that lead up to Michael Frazer.
  • This initial ThruLine connection disappeared
  • I was unable to easily recreate the connection that Susan had to Michael Frazer
  • It looks like Ancestry pulled my connection to Michael Frazer from a tree by Joanna. She made an educated guess that Margaret Frazer was the daughter of Michael Frazer in hopes that she would find connections to other trees.
  • I checked my sister Heidi and she had a connection to Michael Frazer through Michael’s child Patrick down to Richard. It was easier to see how Richard was connected to Michael Frazer via a tree from lulu.

It would seem that ThruLines has given more support to Joanna’s educated guess that my ancestor Margaret Frazer’s father was Michael Frazer. However, my match with Susan showed that she had a genealogical connection to Michael as originally shown by Thrulines. If this original connection between Susan and Michael Frazer could have been shown to be true, then this would have created a sort of triangulation between myself, Susan and Richard and provided more evidence that Margaret was the daughter of Michael Frazer. In order to give even more proof, I would then need to show that I did not have DNA connections to descendants of Archibald Frazer and Catherine Peyton:

I think that this may be difficult to show.

The other question is: what if Joanna had attached Margaret Frazer to Archibald Frazer above? Would that then show that I am related to people who descend from Archibald Frazer and Catherine Peyton? In fact, that has been my most previous thinking as I have myself that way in proposed tree:

Part of the reasoning the the tree above is that I have matches to the other green McPartland group. However, what if the McPartland group belongs under the Michael Line? At some time, I should learn how to used the DNA method called What Are the Odds? (WATO) and see if that sheds any light on the subject.

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MyHeritage and the Theory of Family Relativity

First, MyHeritage gets credit for a catchy name for their new utility. That reminds me of this cartoon:

MyHeritage is doing what AncestryDNA does in matching up family history trees and DNA. In this Blog, I’ll look at my top three matches at MyHeritage that use this utility.

Melanie

I have blogged about this connection previously through Melanie’s mother Emily. Actually, it looks like I have written three Blogs on this connection. I was quite happy to come across Melanie and Emily. Here is Melanie and my shared tree at MyHeritage:

As a result of our connection, I shared a photo I had of Melanie’s great-grandmother Violet Frazer which appears on her tree. Melanie says this would have been taken on her wedding day. This was a very clear and clean match. Melanie and I share 19.9 cM of DNA.

Celeste: Theory of Family Relativity #2

I don’t recall Celeste. So this is a new find for me.

Celeste and I share 12.7 cM of DNA on Chromosome 9:

I have a web page on the Snell family and what I have matches what Celeste has. In fact, Norman was born in the same Town that I was. Here are our common ancestors:

Mary Ann was from Nantucket. Her father had a business repairing ships. Otis was on an early whaling voyage from New Bedford to Hawaii. He jumped ship, made his way to Nantucket and married Mary Ann in 1828.

Celeste and Snell/Parker at DNA Painter

I can paint Celeste’s DNA onto my chromosome map:

This takes up a small segment in dark blue on the top part of Chromosome 9 (the paternal part) that was already taken up by my great-grandparents’ DNA. However, this DNA goes further back in time and is more specific.

Here is the expanded view of the paternal side of my Chromosome 9:

The dark blue overlaps with Beth and Jim, so that means that Beth and Jim should have Snell/Parker DNA in that area of their Chromosome 9 also.

Marilee: Family #3

My match with Melanie was known and accurate. My match with Celeste was unknown and accurate. My match with Marilee is known, but I had a different connection shown than MyHeritage shows. This is what MyHeritage shows:

Here is how I had Marilee’s connection:

I show Marilee in a separate John Line in pink. MyHeritage shows us both in the Richard Frazer Line. I circled myself in the Philip Line, but I am also in the Richard line above. I left my family out of the yellow line to save room.

So how do I reconcile these trees? MyHeritage (MH) shows an expanded view that seems convincing:

There is a connection shown and percentage that I had not noticed before. When I click on the green percentage, it gives a comparison between my tree and a third tree. The same with Marilee’s comparison. It compares Mariee’s John Frazer with a John James Frazer in another tree and gives the match a 100% probability.

There is another thing that I didn’t notice. There is a tab called Path 2:

This path compares to another tree, which I recognize as Joanna’s – a Frazer researcher.

So, Who Is Right?

We may both be right. All I have to do is show two lines of Frazer descent for Marilee and that will reconcile the two trees.

Marilee and the Richard Line

If Marilee is from the Richard Line, it would support the earlier birth dates for Richard and his siblings. So, that in itself is interesting. Here is what I have now for the Richard Line:

I’m not sure about David on the left. Jane was added in. She has many matches and appears to belong in this line. Here is a detailed comparison between John James Frazer and John Frazer:

Marilee’s Tree

Next, I compare this with Marilee’s tree:

Here is the disconnect. Both trees cannot be right. MyHeritage ignored Marilee’s tree in favor of two other trees. Interesting.

Based On the Above, Marilee Cannot Descend from John and Richard Frazer

That means that there is more work to be done to figure out which tree is right. One might argue that John Frazer born 1825 was named for his father’s father John born 1755. It may be that DNA analysis could shed light on which line Marilee would most likely be in. There is a program called What Are the Odds? (WATO). However, I have not used this yet. It takes two scenarios and looks at the odds of one scenario being more likely than the other based on DNA matching. This could be the subject of a future Blog in addition to more genealogical analysis.

Match #4: Warwick from New Zealand

I’m having fun, so why stop at three? Warwick is my third Irish connection out of my top four Relativily Matches:

According to MH, Warwick is my 4th cousin, once removed and we share 17.8 cM on Chromosome 12:

For a reality check, I make sure that I have Frazer grandparent DNA in that part of my Chromosome 12:

I do. I expect that my siblings Sharon, Jon and Lori will also match Warwick. They do. In fact Emily, Paul and Stephen who are known McMaster descendants are shared DNA matches between Warwick and me.

Checking Warwick’s Tree

Warwick’s tree matches with what I have on my McMaster Web Page – at least down to Samuel:

Let’s Paint Warwick

Warwick represents some very old DNA:

The darker colored DNA next to Warwick’s is my 2nd cousin Paul:

I now know that Paul’s Chromosome match with me goes back to his McMaster side. MH shows it like this:

Paul, Warwick and I are in a Triangulation Group (TG). This TG goes back to Abraham McMaster or his wife Margery.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I took my first look at MyHeritage’s Theory of Family Relativity to see how it worked
  • Match #1 was no surprise
  • Match #2 was a surprise as I didn’t know about it. I’m sure this match was buried deep in my match list and the program nicely pulled it out. The matching trees were easily verifiable.
  • Match #3 , Marilee, was on my radar. However, the MH utility brought into question Marilee’s tree. The utility disregarded Marilee’s tree in favor of two other trees. Now I am not sure of either tree and will need to do some more analysis of the Marilee’s DNA matches.
  • I ended the Blog with Match #4. This match easily mapped new DNA and a new common ancestor onto my DNA Painter Chromosome Map.
  • Overall, I like the program and now see how it works. MH has an advantage over the AncestryDNA programs in that they show where on the chromosome the matches take place.
  • The down-side to the MH Relativity is that I only have 6 matches in the program. The two that I didn’t look at are related to the ones that I did look at.
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Sorting Out the Philip Frazers of Roscommon, Ireland

I’ve written a bit about Philip Frazer. He was born probably in Roscommon, Ireland between the 1750’s and 1770’s. In one of my previous Blogs, I proposed this tree:

 

In a recent e-mail from Richard to myself and Bonnie, we have this to consider:

I am trying to tie up some loose ends about my Frazer family in Ontario in the mid-1800s.  

In Joel’s blog about my third cousin, Martha, http://www.jmhartley.com/HBlog/2018/10/22/frazer-dna-analysis-for-martha-richards-3rd-cousin/

Joel speculates that Philip W. Frazer, in the household of Philip Frazer and Jane in Plympton, Lambton County, Ontario in the 1871 census, is the son of Philip Frazer, the first child of Philip Frazer (b. 1805) and Mary Taylor, b. in Kilmactranny Parish in January 1825.  However, Bonnie’s Frazer tree on Ancestry shows this Frazer family as descended from James Frazer and his wife Violet Frazer.  It seems clear that the Frazer family in Plympton, Ontario is related to my ancestor, Ann Frazer (b. 1832), m. Robert Johnston c. 1853 and raised their children in Blenheim Twp., Oxford County, Ontario and died in 1871.  Based on Bonnie’s Frazer tree, Philip Frazer (father of Philip W.) and Ann Frazer would be first cousins rather than siblings.  Does this sound right to both of you?

I have trouble picturing all this, so let’s look at Bonnie’s tree:

The way it worked, is that it would have been traditional to name your first son after your father. Well, Philip and James, under this scenario both were the sons of Philip and both named their first son Philip. Bonnie has Philip’s first son born in 1825 and James’ son born 1828  – both named for the elder Philip. This makes life for genealogists quite confusing. Under Bonnie’s tree, Richard descends from James and Violet Frazer. I would say that Bonnie’s tree looks better than mine:

I don’t even have Philip as the son of James and Violet – even though I have had him on my web page for a long time:

My October 2018 Blog – Philip Frazer Son of Philip Or James?

Here is the Blog that Richard was referring to:

In my Blog, I assumed that the 45-year-old Philip Frazer in the 1871 Ontario Census descended from Philip and not James and Violet. I can see that I did not at the time consider the other possibility.

Arguments For Philip Frazer of Ontario Being the Son Of James Frazer

Seeing as I did not consider this before, I will now. First, Bonnie’s tree has Philip Frazer married to Jane Hayward. I notice in the 1861 Ontario Census, Jane Hayward Frazer was living in the Haywood household:

Philip was an early Frazer with a connection to Kilmactranny. My own 2nd great-grandfather, George William marries a woman from Kilmactranny Parish and later moves to the area. This may or may not be a coincidence.

Richard Frazer who would have been Philip’s brother under this scenario also lived in Ontario for a while. This could also be considered coincidence.

Here is a photo from my grandmother’s photo album from Toronto:

I have no idea who this mysterious young woman is.

If Philip was the brother of my ancestor George, he may have named a son for him. However, I have that both Philip and James had a brother named George.

I have that my ancestor George lived in the house of his father James. If Philip or Richard, George’s older brothers, continued on in Ireland, then this may have not been the case.

I have not come up with a convincing argument, but I think that Bonnie’s tree is probably right. It feels right.

Other Trees

Joanna, who is a noted Frazer researcher, has this in her Ancestry Tree:

 

Joanna agrees with Bonnie though I think they do collaborate some.

The Counter-Argument: Philip Frazer is the Son of Philip Frazer

My original suggestion was based a lot on naming patterns. It would have been traditional for Philip, son of Philip to name his first son Philip. If Philip was the son of James, why didn’t he name his first son James instead of Philip? James’ first son was Philip. James’ second and third sons were Richard and George William. Richard’s first son was James Archibald born 1856. He died in 1861. George William’s first son was also James Archibald who was born in 1867.

Philip in Kilmactranny or Ardcarn?

I believe that Philip was from Ardcarn Parish. A search for Frazers in the Tithe Applotment Books shows 18 entries for Frazers in County Roscommon and none in County Sligo. Ardcarn Parish is in Roscommon and Kilmactranny Parish is in County Sligo. Here is Philip in 1834 in Derrycastle aka Derrycashel with some of his relatives:

Here is an early marriage record from the Kilmactranny Church:

This clearly indicates that Philip was from Ardcarne and Jane was from Kilmactranny. A search for Johnstons in Kilmactranny Parish in the Tithe Applotment reveals three Johnston families in Dromore in 1834: William, Alexander and John. Perhaps they were brothers of Jane. Here is Dromore:

The dotted line to the South of Kilmactranny is the County Roscommon border.

Here is another try at a Philip Frazer Tree:

 

This tree focuses on the Philip’s and omits some of the siblings. I have a Philip marrying Jane Johnston and then Mary Taylor. If he first married in 1818, I would guess that he could have been born around 1795.

Another Ancestry Tree

Here is a Tree that is not associated with the Frazer DNA Project:

Here they have more information on George Frazer. They also have a William Frazer who would make for a young parents for James and Violet Frazer. This William is also unexpectedly born in Edinburgh. The tree has the generally accepted Philip husband of Jane Hayward as the son of James and Violet Frazer:

 

The DNA?

I mentioned in the Blog that Richard referred to, “All we need to do next is to see if there are descendants of Philip W, Alfred, Mary, Emily and George and see if they would take a DNA test.” I don’t know of any of the descendants of the Philip Frazer family of Plympton, Ontario who have had their DNA tested. Perhaps one will soon. This would be especially interesting to me as we would have the common ancestors of James and Violet Frazer – assuming the above tree is right.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Thanks to Richard’s diligence, he pointed out a disagreement between my previously proposed Philip Frazer tree and what others had in their Frazer Trees.
  • Given what I know now, I think that the most recent tree above should be fairly accurate. Next time I need to check existing trees before suggestiing a new line.
  • If any descendants of Philip Frazer and Jane Hayward have their DNA tested, it would likely give more proof as to whether the above trees are correct.
  • I haven’t seen a death record for the elder Philip Frazer. It could be that he died before there were good death records available. If that was the case, that would mean that it would be his son Philip who was in the 1834 Tithe Applotment.

 

 

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Genealogy for Heather and JJ: Part 11 – Jeremiah Warren Born 1812 Ireland

This is a follow-up on Part 10.

Jeremiah Warren Born 1812 Ireland

Here is Jeremiah at the top of Heather and JJ’s maternal grandmother’s tree:

Here is Jeremiah’s birth record on his Naturalization index card:

Perhaps there is more information in Lowell or at the National Archives. Jeremiah was born in Ireland, but I don’t know where yet.

Mary Kelly (1812-1854)

Much of what I have about Jeremiah’s wife Mary Kelly is from death records:

Mary died at Cross Street in Lowell in 1854. The names of her parents are given as John and Ann Kelly. Mary died of consumption which is: “a wasting disease, especially pulmonary tuberculosis”. Here is Cross Street:

Here is Mary in the 1850 Census:

This was an $8,000 house, which seems quite expensive for the day. Note that daughter Bridget was born while Mary and Jeremiah were in Nova Scotia. Bridget’s death record adds that she was born in Halifax. I included the following family as they were from Nova Scotia. James Dalton was a Shoe maker. I notice that there was a Jeremiah who served in the Civil War who was a shoe maker at one point in his life:

Some More On Jeremiah Warren (1812-1857)

Here is Jeremiah in 1855:

This would have been shortly after the death of his wife Mary. Daughter Bridget married John Sullivan in May this same year, so she must have just moved out of the house at the time of the 1855 Census:

That left Jeremiah five boys to take care of on his own. Two years later Jeremiah dies. However, here is something to ponder:

Jeremiah is said to be 65 on his death record. If Jeremiah was born 1812, he would have been 45 in 1857. It appears to say he was married. However, he may have re-married. It also says that he died of old age. That leads me to this marriage record in 1856:

Here a Jeremiah Warren marries a Mary Cahill. Jeremiah has somehow gotten younger and then the next year, he ages 30 years.

After Jeremiah

In my previous Blog on the subject, I noted no Jeremiah Warren in the 1858 Lowell City Directory. However, a widow Mary appears:

This must be Mary Cahill. Unfortunately, she was to have a short marriage of a year and a half.

Two years later, Mary was appointed administratix:

Mary had three months to come up with an inventory.

This shows that John had seven children:

It looks like I missed the last child James. This must be James. However, he did not live long:

Jeremiah’s Children

I believe that the oldest three boys served in the Civil War: Robert, Thomas and Jeremiah.

Bridget, the only daughter married John Sullivan.

Here is Bridget in 1865 taking care of John and Patrick. I have that John was born in 1845, so shouldn’t he be 20 in 1865? Was this to keep him out of the Civil War? And what happened to Jeremiah’s second wife?

Robert J Warren

The oldest son married Margaret Kelly in 1862. He is likely listed as James in the 1870 Census:

He was a painter. He was listed here as born in Ireland, but I don’t think that is right. Robert died six years later in 1876.

In this record, he shows as being born in Boston. I checked and this is likely his baptismal record:

This would be one of the earliest records of the family in Massachusetts. That makes sense that he would be born in Boston if his older sister Bridget was born on the way from Ireland to Massachusetts in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Thomas A Warren Born 1840 Lowell

So the Warren family made it’s way from Ireland to Halifax to Boston to Lowell.  Thomas married Mary Jane White in 1861. Here he is in the 1865 Lowell City Directory:

I get the impression that Thomas served in the Civil War.

Thomas ended up in Maine:

Thomas died in 1906 and his body was shipped back to his brother Jeremiah who lived at Cross Street, Lowell:

I suppose that’s a good lead-in to Jeremiah

Jeremiah Warren Born 1842 Lowell

Jeremiah married for the second time in 1872:

Here is Jeremiah in 1870:

Perhaps his first wife had died by this time as he is living with Francis aged 2.

Here is Jeremiah and Ellen with son Albert in 1880:

Here is the same family at Cross Street, Lowell in 1900:

Jeremiah died in 1908 at 27 Cross Street – two years after his brother Thomas died and was shipped to Lowell.

Patrick H Warren (1853-1875)

Before I get to John Warren, I’ll look at John’s younger brother Patrick. In 1870, Patrick was living with his older brother Thomas in Boston:

Patrick died at age 22 of Consumption at Lincoln Street, Lowell:

John J Warren (1845-1882)

John J Warren is my best guess for the father of John Edward Warren aka Cavanaugh. Here is the published record for John’s birth:

I believe that C.R. means cemetery record. John shows as being 5 in the 1850 Census. As the 1850 Census was taken on June 1st, John would probably been 4 at the time of the Census if his above birth date is right.

John’s mother died before he was 10. I lose track of the family in 1860, but by 1865, John’s father Jeremiah had also died and John was living with his married sister Bridge Sullivan.

John J Warren and Bridget J Welch

Here is a marriage on November 11, 1866 between young John and Bridget:

They were both born and living in Lowell and here are their parents:

  • Mary J was born to this couple in 1867
  • Margaret was born in 1869. In this record, it says that Bridget was born in Boston
  • Bridget T Warren was born in 1871. In this record both parents are reported as born in Ireland.
  • Thomas G Warren was born in 1875.

Mother Bridget died in September 1878 at age 30.

Here is widowed John J with his four children living on 7 Bleachery Street on June 7, 1880:

12 year old Mary J was home ‘keeping house’.

John Warren, Louisa Gately and John E Warren aka Cavanaugh

Based on this record for John E Warren aka Cavanaugh, John E Warren son of John [Warren] and Louisa Gately married ‘Laoner’ M. Morrow in 1911:

This marriage record for John E Warren record states that John Warren and Louisa Gately were the parents of John E Warren. One interesting thing about this record is that there is no record of the Cavanaugh name. For whatever reason, John chose to omit the Cavanaugh name on his marriage record. Louisa was technically a Cavanaugh at this point and John E went by John Edward Cavanaugh for most of his life.

Seven and three quarter years after his marriage, here is John Edward’s WWI Registration Card where he gives the date of his birth:

Assuming this birth date to be correct, Louisa would have been past mid-term in her pregnancy with John Edward at the time of the 1880 Census:

Louisa lived at 38 Bleachery Street.

John J Warren worked at the bleachery. Louisa worked at U.S. Bunting. This was a company that made material for the US flag. Louisa’s husband Michael Cavanaugh also worked at the bleachery before his death in 1872.

John J Warren died less than two years after the birth of John Edward Warren/Cavanaugh in 1882 of an ‘accidental drowning’. Probably in Amesbury.

Any Holes In the Story?

I have tried to show the history leading from Jeremiah Warren to John Edward Warren aka Cavanaugh. Are there any holes in the story? I think the story holds together, but there are a few questions or issues:

  • I have not found a birth record for John Edward Warren/Cavanaugh. Perhaps there is a baptismal record for him.
  • Why didn’t John J Warren marry Louisa Gately Cavanaugh?
  • I am sure that there must be a newspaper article or two on the drowning of John J Warren. That would be interesting to read.
  • Why did John Edward go by Warren in his marriage record, then go by Cavanaugh after that?
  • John Edward is difficult to trace in his later life and his death record has not yet been found

 

 

 

 

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A New Rathfelder DNA Match

I recently saw an interesting DNA match on my mother’s side. This was on her paternal Rathfelder side. What was interesting was that the DNA match was quite high and the Rathfelder matches are quite rare.

My Mom’s Match With Donna At AncestryDNA

My mom’s match with Donna is here:

Ancestry predicts that Donna and my mom are 2nd cousins. However, they give a range between 1st and 2nd cousins. Here are some possibilities by DNA:

My guess is that my mom Gladys and Donna are 1st cousins twice removed.

Donna’s Genealogy

I wrote to Donna saying that I thought that the match with my family was on our Rathfelder side. Donna wrote back saying that she didn’t know who the father of her grandfather but her grandfather was born in 1919 to a Miss Barlow and his name was was Leonard Rathfulder Barlow. My mother’s father’s brother’s name was Leonhard Rathfelder. He was born in 1896 and could be the right age to be the father of Leonard Rathfulder Barlow.

Here is how Donna may fit in:

My mom is on the left. Donna is in the next to the last row. If my guess is right, then Donna would be my mother’s 1st cousin twice removed and my 2nd cousin once removed. The fact that Donna’s grandfather’s name is so close to my great Uncle’s name seems to be a major clue.

Here is a photo of my grandfather Alexander and his brother Leo:

Here is a photo from Anita of Leo’s three children in Latvia – Hermanis, Nina and Vera. Hermanis is Catherine’s father and Vera is Anita and Inese’s grandmother.

More DNA Comparisons

If my guess is right, then Donna should match my mother, and my family in a similar way that Anita and Inese match my family. All I have to do is fill in the blanks:

Jim and Rusty tested at FTDNA. Anita and Inese tested at MyHeritage. All have uploaded their results to Gedmatch Genesis for comparison except for Donna.

Here are the known matches with Anita and Inese:

The DNA matches range from a low of 80.7cM between Rusty and Inese to a high of 213.5 with Heidi and Anita. This turns out to an overall average of 127 which is close to the reported average of 123 cM for 2nd cousin, once removed.

When I add in Donna’s matches with my family, they are higher than between Anita and Inese and my family:

Jim and Rusty’s comparisons with Donna are blank because they didn’t test at Ancestry. The biggest different is with my first cousin Cindy. She has about twice as much matching DNA with Donna compared to her matches with Anita and Inese. However, it appears that these are all 2nd cousin, once removed relationships. Donna just got more Rathfelder DNA than average.

The Logistics

At first glance, it would appear unlikely that a child born in South Shields on Tyneside would have a father who was from Latvia:

However, Leo worked on a ship and traveled extensively:

Leo is on the right in the first photo and on the left in the second one. That means that I cannot provide the exact circumstance of how Leo and Miss Barlow met. Perhaps she also worked on a ship or perhaps Leo had regular visits to where Miss Barlow lived.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Putting together the DNA match and other evidence, It appears that Leonhard Rathfelder is the father of Leonard Rathfulder Barlow who was born in 1919 in England.
  • This could be further verified if Donna uploads her DNA to Gedmatch Genesis for comparisons.
  • I don’t have specific evidence of where Miss Barlow and Leo were  in 1918, but it appears that it is quite likely that they were the parents of Leonard Rathfulder Barlow.
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Genealogy for Heather and JJ: Part 9 – 200 Years of Canadian Ancestry

In my previous Blog I had some breakthroughs on Heather and JJ’s Boudria (also spelled Boudrias) Line. In this Blog, I’d like to look at the Barbary side (mother of Joseph Tessier aka Tacy) and more into Phoebe, the wife of Joseph Tessier. I have been using the Genealogy of Canada Website, so I’ll continue with that.

First Phoebe

I have had trouble finding out Phoebe’s last name. I had Sawyer then took it out. Then I noticed a Tessier tree had Phoebe as Phoebe Sawyer. At the Genealogy of Canada Website, I see Joseph’s father Salomon, but not Joseph:

Here is Ste-Therese where Salomon Tessier was born:

So I am still stuck figuring out who Phoebe is

Barbary and Barbary

Next, I’ll move on the the double Barbary line:

Joseph and Marie Barbary

I’m curious to see if the parents of Marguerite Amable Barbary are related to each other. Chances are they should be. They are both dit Grandmaison. Dit is a nickname. Pehaps this line lived in a large house.  Marguerite’s father, Joseph was born in Pointe-Claire on the Island of Montreal in 1776 and died in Ste-Placide to the West of Montreal:

Marie Barbary is more difficult to find. Her estimated birth year is 1783. Here are the couple in 1851 in Ste-Placide:

Joseph is listed as 76 ans and Marie shows as 64 ans. Based on this Census, she could have been born in 1787. Ancestry guesses at 1788, so I’ll use that. Here is Ste-Placide by the  St Lawrence River.

Barbary in the 1750’s

Joseph and Andre were both born in the 1750’s when the United States was still a British Colony:

Joseph was born in Point-Claire and Andre was born not far away:

Agathe Robidoux was from Deux-Montagnes:

Three Generations From Marguerite Amable Barbary

I have all of Maruerite’s four grandparents. The next step takes us to Marguerite’s eight great-grandparents.

Unfortunately Marguerite’s maternal grandmother Agathe Labrosse died when she was 24. With my translator on I see that Labrosse could mean “the brush”.  Most of Marguerite’s great-grandparents were from Point-Claire. Most of this generation also lived through the year 1760. That was the year that Montreal was surrendered to the British following the Battle at the Plains of Abraham in Quebec City. Montreal did not become a City until 1832. It was not long after this time that Heather and JJ’s 3rd and 4th great grandparents Joseph and Solomon Tessier aka Tacy made their move South over the border into Upstate New York.

Marguerite Amable’s 2nd Great-Grandparents

The next logical step is to look for Marguerite’s 16 2nd great-grandparents. The first of this generation of Marguerite’s ancestors that I looked at was Raymond Labrosse. He was born in France in 1695:

This town was about 60 miles north of Lyon. So this is the generation where some of the ancestors were born in France. Other things I want to look for:

  • A possible Barbary common ancestor
  • the filles du roi – more about these women later

Pierre Barbary Dit Grandmaison and Marie-Fracoise Pare

Both of Marguerite’s parents had the same last name.  Joseph and Marie Barbary were second cousins to each other. Their common ancestors were Pierre Barbary born 1677 and Marie-Francsoise Pare born 1682.

The Filles Du Roi

Filles du Roi means daughters of the king. These were women who came to New France or the Quebec area under King Louis XIV. Basically, there was a shortage of women in Quebec. The plan was to pay the way of about 800 women as wives for the colonists. These woman were to make the area more civilized and create new families. There was a concern that the British Colony had too much in the way of population compared to New France. It has become a big deal to see if you are descended from the 800 women who came to Quebec between 1663 and 1673.  It will take going back a generation or two to see if Heather and JJ descend from any filles du roi. There is a strict rule that it was only the women who arrived between 1663 and 1673 that count. That means that if a woman came at, say, age 20-25, then she would have been born about 1638-1653, although I’m sure there were outliers.

So far, I have found one person that could meet that criteria:

I have been accepting ancestor hints like crazy, as it would take too long to check up on all these ancestors. This woman is Jacqueline Barn. That doesn’t sound particularly like a French name.

She would be Heather and JJ’s 10th great-grandmother. That sounds impressive. Imagine how many 10th great-grandparents you have. Let’s see, 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents:

  • 2nd GGP – 16
  • 3rd GGP – 32
  • 4th GGP – 64
  • 5th GGP – 128
  • 6th GGP – 256
  • 7th GGP – 512
  • 8th GGP – 1024
  • 9th GGP – 2048
  • 10th GGP – 4096

So if the suggestions were right at Ancestry, then Jacqueline Barn is about one four thousandths of Heather and JJ.

Unfortunately I couldn’t find Barn or Glory on the Filles Du Roi lists.

Next, Let’s Try Jeanne Barbier

Jean is a mere 9th grandmother to Heather and JJ:

Jeanne’s daughter Marie Jeanne Plummereau Latreille didn’t have an Ancestry hint, so I had to look at a marriage record and accept someone else’s parents from their tree. Here is Jeanne on a list:

The contract is the marriage.

Unfortunately, I don’t know much about Jeanne.

Here is Rethel in the Champagne Region:

Here is Chambly, Quebec:

Here is another list:

Many times these women were marrying soldiers to fight on the frontier. Notice that Jeanne Barbier’s first contract was canceled. My understanding is, as these women were quite a precious commodity, they could choose their own husband which would have been quite a role reversal for the 1600’s. My guess is that Jeanne didn’t get along with Bernard or that he wasn’t rich enough or attractive enough. Perhaps he had fleas, body odor and missing teeth.

Summary and Conclusions

  • First, I took another shot at identifying Joseph Tessier Tacy’s wife Phoebe’s surname, but had no luck.
  • Secondly, I looked into Joseph Tessier’s Barbary line. Maguerite Amable Barbary was Joseph’s mother.
  • Marguerite Barbary’s parents were 2nd cousins to each other. I traced both their lines.
  • Next, I looked for a Fille Du Roi for Heather and JJ. The second choice I looked at was Jeanne Barbier who was a Fille Du Roi. Jeanne was born around 1649 in the Champagne Region of France.

 

 

 

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Visually Phasing Heather and JJ’s DNA

I started visually phasing my two children, Heather and JJ’s DNA in this Blog. I was having trouble getting the Steven Fox Visual Phasing Spreadsheet to work, so I just used Excel.

The Steven Fox Visual Phasing Spreadsheet

I got this spreadsheet working. It doesn’t like you to cut and paste numbers, so I typed them in. In my previous Blog I mentioned above, I came up with this for Heather and JJ’s Chromosome 5:

The paternal side is easy because Heather and JJ’s Rathfelder grandmother has tested. Where she matches them on the paternal side is Rathfelder. Where she doesn’t match Heather and JJ is Hartley DNA. The maternal side is more difficult. The green above is Jarek. I found some Jarek relatives that helped there. I couldn’t find a Cavanaugh relative and uploaded JJ and Heather’s AncestryDNA results to FTDNA. There, I found Martha, who is a 1st cousin once removed. That is perfect for phasing. Martha is related to Heather and JJ on the Cavananaugh side only.

Here is the Fox Spreadsheet:

I set the vertical lines to match the areas above where JJ and Heather match each other. Below is JJ and Heather’s maternal grandmother’s match which will be the Rathfelder side. Next I put in Rathfelder and Hartley based on the match below:

Jarek Cousin Robert

Next, I can fill in some Jarek DNA based on matches to Jarek cousin Robert:

Robert matches Heather more than JJ on the right, so that could be a maternal crossover for JJ:

Here is how Heather matches her Cavanaugh cousin Martha on Chromosome 5:

 

Heather’s match stops at 159M which is where I have a crossover line:

At the same area, JJ has a match with Martha from 150-166M.

Another Jarek Cousin

Jarek cousin Robert tested three of his relatives or siblings, I’m not sure which. This one helped:

Robert’s sibling’s DNA match goes over the crossover line, so that cannot be JJ’s crossover. I gave it to Heather. The crossover at 112 was already paternal, so I brought the Jarek DNA over. So far, on Chromosome 5, the Jarek DNA seems to be winning out between JJ and Heather. However, I have a problem. The Fox Spreadsheet has a feature called a segment map. It compares what you have mapped (bottom bar) versus what the actual comparison is between Heather and JJ (top bar).

 

The top bar needs to match the bottom bar. It does except for the 2nd and third segments I show above.  I missed the crossover before 112. However, I may be able to reason myself out of this jam.

Note that at position 129, there are already two crossovers. I think that there should only be one there. If I move Heather’s Cavanaugh DNA to left, that should solve the problem:

This is what I end up with. Now the bottom bar and the top bar match each other. I still don’t have the first maternal segment defined for Heather and JJ. It would look better if JJ had the crossover at 33.5M. It may be possible to figure this out by cousin matches.

Here are some of JJ’s maternal DNA matches from his match list:

JJ doesn’t have any matches going through 33.5M. The 10.7 and 14.6cM matches are where JJ matches Heather.

Here is the same portion on Heather’s maternal match list:

This shows that Heather’s matches do go at least a little way through 33.5, so it appears that JJ has the crossover at 33.5M:

This is true because maternal matches cannot go through a maternal crossover. That is true unless someone is related on the order of first cousin or closer.

From this, we see a few interesting things:

  • Heather and JJ will not have any Hartley side matches before 112M or what appears to be more than half of Chromosome 5
  • After position 129M, Heather and JJ will not have any Rathfelder matches.
  • Likewise, Heather and JJ will have no Cavanaugh matches between 33.5 and 74 and from 170.6 to the end of Chromosome 5.
  • Jarek DNA is missing between Heather and JJ only between 149.7 and 159.3.
  • All this information is important when trying to determine on what side your unknown DNA matches are on.