Category: Hartley

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A New Hartley BigY

Every so often a new Hartley BigY comes out. One just came out which is in my Tribe of Hartleys. What I mean by that is that in the YDNA tree of man there is more than one branch of Hartleys. These YDNA branches are distantly related.

A11134

My Branch of Hartley YDNA is called A11134. It is shown on the FTDNA Block Tree here:

This tree is from my perspective. I am in an offshoot of A11134 called FT225247. John R., Michael, and Lawrence are in another off-shoot called A16717. This was a branch of Hartley Quakers from the 1600’s that emigrated to Pennsylvania. Ethan is curently in the main Branch of Hartleys under A11134 along with Channon, John N., and Steve. I believe that Channon may have Hartley in his ancestry going back. Mawdsley is related to the Hartleys, but the branches probably split prior to the common use of surnames and his surname would have developed independently. So we don’t think that Mawdsley ever had Hartley in their ancestry. Smith is a separate branch that is very old.

Some other observations:

  • My branch has the most SNPs for some reason – 7
  • A11134 is actually a block of three different SNPs
  • As there are 7 SNPs in my Branch and an average of three Private Variants under A16717 and A11134 and other branches, there is more room for further branching.

FTDNA Time Tree

This time tree shows that Smith has been alone in his Branch of A11138 since about the year 500 AD (or CE). Mawdsley’s Line split off around the year 1200. The rest of the Hartleys are quite old – going back to the 1500’s or possibly even earlier.

YDNA SNP Theory

SNP Theory is simple:

  1. If you have a SNP that no one else has, it is a Private SNP or Variant
  2. If you match someone else with a SNP that puts you in a group with them
  3. If you do not have SNPs that others have in a lower branch, that puts you in a higher branch. For example, in the Hartley example above, Ethan, Channon, John N. and Steve do not have FT225247 or A16717, so they are currently in the higher or earlier Hartley Branch of A11134

In practice, interpreting these principles is difficult. All BigY tests are different. If the test has poor coverage for a SNP, or no coverage, it will be difficult to interpret the results.

Ethan’s Private Variants

FTDNA shows that Ethan has one private variant at position 17071491. However, I do not understand the results as the Reference is G and the Genotype is T. However, the test results give a ‘C’. Now if Ethan has only one private variant, that seems to indicate a relatively short time to common ancestors or that he has very few mutations compared to the average amount of mutations.

Here is Ethan’s Match List:

Ethan’s closest matches are John R and Channon. He has 5 non-matching variants with these two. Note that Private Variant 17071491 shows up in these list. That means that each of these testers could have tested negatvie for this Variant. However, we have to check to make sure.

This gets confusing as there are two John R’s. The one who took the BigY descends from the Quaker Hartleys:

John has a ton of reads, most of which are negative. That means that he is not positive for the Variant that Ethan has.

Channon’s results for Ethan’s Private Varinat position are similar:

Does Ethan Have Any New Matches with Existing Hartley Testers?

This seems to be the big question as that would put Ethan in a new group. Another corollary is: Does Ethan have non-matches which would put other Hartleys in a new group.

I see from a previous Blog I wrote, that I have this colorful spreadsheet:

I used an add-on called BAMsAway to look up variant results that FTDNA normally does not show. The colors give the various gradations that are possible with the results. This shows how one SNP was added to the Hartley Tree – namely MF 205420. I think that I used this chart to get FTDNA to put Michael, Lawrence and John into their own Branch.

Here I have added Ethan and his own Private Variant. All I have to do is to fill in the new row and column. Here is the column:

I had forgotten how I had the light green codes. For example B?4+ means that there were 4 positive reads. Usually 10 are needed. B?5- means that there were 5 negative reads. So the shortcoming of the designation is that a plus is a likely SNP and a minus is a likely ancestral value (no mutation).

I didn’t bother checkign each SNP in my own Hartley Branch as Ethan is likely not positive for those SNPs. I should also note that Michael has a lot of ‘no reads’. This is likely because he took th eolder BigY 500 which tested fewer locations on the YDNA.

The outcome of the exercise is that Ethan clearly does not share any of the Private Variants of the other testers. If Ethan had a no read for one of these positions, then perhaps we could say he matched one of the other Hartleys, but that was not the case.

Checking the Other BigY Tested Hartleys for Ethan’s Private Variant

As Ethan only shows one Private Variant, it is not likely that this Variant would be shared with anyone else, but I will check. Here is my result:

I see that there was a mutation in one read only, but the overall effect is that I am not positive for this mutation. It turns out that all the results were negative for Ethan’s SNP:

The bottom line is that my Hartley Branch has an unusually large number of SNPs since these Hartley Branches split and Ethan has an unusually small amount of Private Variants – one.

FGC SNPs

Earlier in the Blog, I looked at Ethan’s BigY Match List:

Here are a few non-matching variants in his list starting with FGC. I have looked at FGC6800 before. This is already a named SNP in the I branch of the YDNA and I am in the R branch. I have a feeling that FTDNA cannot handle two SNPs that are the same in different branches. I do not believe that I have looked at FGC7804 before. I’ll just add them to my spreadsheet:

I found that Nutter aka Channon has the SNP (or Private Variant) of FGC7804

According to YBrowse, the Branch for this SNP is unknown:

However, it was discovered in 2013 which is before Channon tested. I would tend to look at FGC7804 as a Private Variant for Channon.

Here, I didn’t check the Hartley Quaker descendants for the two FGC SNPs as they were in a different Branch.

Summary and Conclusions

  • My Hartley Branch has 7 SNPs, or 8 if FGC6800 is counted. That is a new SNP about ever 63 years or close to every other generation.ItSteve has 5 Private Variants (PVs), John has 4 PVs, Nutter has 3-5 PVs depending on the testing company, and Ethan has one PV
  • Ethan has only one PV in about the last 500 years. That seems very unusual.
  • The Quaker Line is about 200 years newer than the general Hartley Haplogroup. In that group, Michael has 2 PVs, but he took the older BigY 500 test. Lawrence has 5 PVs and John R has 4 PVs.
  • It does not appear that a manual review will be required by FTDNA
  • I don’t know if Ethan’s results will change the dating of the FTDNA Time Tree.
  • It appears that there were many Hartleys around the year 1500 or before. We have now 5 lines descending from that time – My branch with my brother, Steve, John N, Channon or Nutter and now Ethan. However, between 1500 and now there were no closer relatives beween those 5 lines or branches. That means that even with all the testing that has been done, there needs to be more to establish more Hartley Branches between the year 1500 or so and now. The would establish more lines like the Hartley Quaker Branch that we know was from around the year 1600 and connected by genealogy.

 

 

 

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A New Hartley BigY Test

I have been in touch with Michelle who is a co-adminitrator of the Hartley YDNA Project (as am I). She has interest in the Hartley surname and had a test taken for Ethan. So far Ethan’s STR results are out. We are still awaiting the more important SNP results.

Here is Ethan listed at the Hartley YDNA Project:

Ethan is listed at the top. I show his first STR result, but there are 110 more to the right of that that I do not show. There are more Hartleys who have done YDNA testing. A few notes:

  • There are other Hartleys in the Hartley Project, but many Hartleys are not closesly related to each other by DNA.
  • The bright blue above is one group of Hartleys that are related to each other by YDNA
  • The first group has a Mawdsley in it. This is the oldest group called A11132. It was unclear previously whether Mawdsley was origingally a Hartley or whether the names split off before the time of surnames. I have assumed the latter. Now Ethan has been placed in this group.
  • The second group is the second oldest group. These are all people who are sure they are related to each other by the Hartley surnames. However, the Hartley connections are quite old. The connections could go back to the 1400’s or earlier.
  • Finally, there are the next two branches off of A11134. The first branch is a group who descend from an early Quaker Hartley who moved from England to Pennsylvania ostensibly to get away from persecution in NE Lancashire England.
  • The last two testers are my brother and myself. We would have the newest branch. Our ancestors were from Trawden, Lancashire.

The FTDNA Time Tree

I have taken the FTDNA Time Tree and added a few notes:

First, I do not think that Ethan will end up as A11132. It is more likely that he will be in the A11134 group with the rest of the Hartleys.

Running Ethan through SAPP

SAPP is a program that automatically makes a tree using STR data. This program was develped by David Vance. First the STR data goes into a text file:

This is just part of the data from the tribe of DNA Hartleys that I belong to. Ethan’s data is first. The third kit (Time) must be for 37 STRs as there are fewer STRs. I omitted a few kits that were less than 37 STRs. That left 14 Hartleys in the group.

When I run SAPP, I get a lot of information:

In my first email back from Michelle, she noted that Ethan had a value of 11 for STR 511. This is shown in the top right of the image above.

The last chart on the first page of the SAPP analysis has this:

This chart gives genetic distance corrected for differences in the level of STR testing. To find Ethan’s Genetic Distance one could look etiher at the second column or second row. Looking down the secon column , we see in the note that results with different colors are different level of tests. I believe that green is 37 STRs and brown is 67 STRs. What I see is that Ethan is not closely related to any of the 37 or above STR testers in our Hartley group. This is consistant with what I have seen in the past. What this says to me is that there were a lot of Hartleys a long time ago and they all had separate lines that were not closely related to each other.

Here is the SAPP Tree:

This is small and difficult to read. Here are a few initial observations:

  • Testers are indicated in yellow. So, for example, the yeloow tester at the top left of the tree is current day as are all the other yellow testers.
  • This tree was created withouth knowledge of SNPs and the solid branching that they create. So, in cases where the STR tree conflicts with the SNP tree, the SNP tree is the right answer
  • There is a way to add SNP infomration to this tree, but I have not done that here
  • The tree shows four major branches. The person in his own branch is Mervin

I can see at least one problem right away:

There are three in the Quaker Hartleys of Pennsylvania. The kit starting with 617 belongs with the other two Hartleys with Quaker roots in Pennsylvania. This problem would have been solved had I added the YDNA Branch name to SAPP.

Also, in this initial run, Ethat is in Node #19 with Mawdsley. This is interesting as this is where Ethan was placed on the Hartley YDNA Project. (See the first image in the Blog.)

SAPP Tree with SNP Data

I look at a David Vance video to figure out how to do this:

I need to add SNP data for people.

Here if there was a hartley that did not test for SNPs, I gave a question mark which says perhaps they are A11134.

The first page of analysis gives a new chart which points out a mistake I made:

I put in the Mawdsley kit number twice. I’ll just fix that.

I ran it again:

Now the results are correct for Mawdsley, but wrong for Ethan. I don’t want to show Ethan positive for A11134 as I do not yet know that. My Blogs would be shorter is I took out my mistakes. However, I am hoping that my mistakes are instructive:

Now that this chart looks the way I want it to, I will push the SAPP Tree button:

This tree looks quite different. There are now three branches. A few comments:

  • This does not take into account that the Hartley YDNA Administrator believes that most of the Hartleys who have not done the BigY are A11134.term
  • This also does not take into account the fact of the common Hartley surname for most testers.
  • The program still wants to put Ethan with Mawdsley. I would tend to disagree with this, but we will see when the BigY results come out.
  • Mervin shows in his own branch. I would tend to disagree with that also.

I see one additional thing that could help. In one of my previous Blogs on Hartley SAPP trees, I used an asterix after the SNP to indicate the current  terminal SNP:

This gives some clarity for the three BigY testers who tested as A11134. Unfortunately, that did not change the results. In my previous Blog on the subject, I kept in the two Hartleys that only tested 12 SNPs. Perhaps I should add them back in, as I got better reults last time.

I tried adding them back, but that had no effect on the tree.

Possible BigY Outcomes for Ethan

Here is my Block tree:

  • If Ethan is truly related to Mawdsley, he may form a new branch under A11132
  • Ethan my show as A11134 and result in no change to the Hartley YDNA Tree. That would mean that he would form another parallel branch with Channon, John N., an Steve
  • Ethan may have a SNP in common with one of the testers in A11134 and form a new branch under that SNP.

The Wolka Connection

Ethan’s closest match at 111 STRs is Wolka:

The Genetic Distance [GD] between Ethan and Wolka is 3. This is by far Ethan’s closest 111 STR match. Ethan’s next closest match is with Steve at a GD of 7. Wolka has many other Hartley matches. The assumption is that this particular Wolka male line goes back to a Hartley Line at some point. Unfortunately, not much is known about this tester’s genealogy. It may be assumed that that the terminal SNP that Ethan tests positive for will likely apply to Wolka also.

As a side note, Ethan is Mawdsley’s closest STR match at a GD of 8. Mawdsley’s next match is Wolka at a GD of 9.

Here is FTDNA’s time predictor for a GD of 3 at 111 STRs:

This means that the likely date for the common ancestor between Ethan and Wolka is around 1750.

Summary and Conclusions

  • There is a new Hartley BigY tester However, so far, only his STR results are in
  • The Hartley YDNA Project administrtor has grouped Ethan with Mawdsley
  • My previous understanding was that the connection between Mawdsley and Hartley go back before the time of surnames.
  • I tried using the SAPP Program on Ethan’s STR results, but I was not satisfied with the results compared to my understanding of Hartley YDNA at this point
  • STRs are very difficult to analyze and interpret. In constrast, SNPs tend to give more straightforward answers
  • It will be interesting to see if Ethan’s BigY test creates a change in the YDNA tree of man and specifically in the Hartley part of the YDNA tree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree and ThruLines

I have been building DNA/Genealogy Trees for my ancestors that have ThruLines that i have verified. On my Hartley side, I have looked at:

  • Hartley
  • Hathaway
  • Snell
  • Parker
  • Hatch
  • Howorth
  • Churchill
  • Cowen

I do not think that I have looked at Luther.

My Luther Genealogy

My great-grandmother Annie Snell was the daughter of a Bradford and a Snell. Luther is on the Snell side. Benjamin Luther and Rebecca Trafton were my 5th great-grandparents. They lived in Dighton, Massachusetts.

Luther ThruLines

I’ll start with my own:

ThurLines think that I match up with Lynn via Lynn’s ancestor Polly Luther. Polly is in white which means that she is already in my Tree. However, it seems as Polly may have married a Simmons:

A few of my siblings have the same ThruLine with Lynn.

Joyce’s Luther ThruLines

Because my father’s cousin Joyce is a generation back, she should have more Luther ThruLines and she does:

Joyce even has a ThruLine going back a generation:

I checked on my father’s other 1st cousin Maury’s ThruLines, but he doesn’t show any on the Luther side.

Joyce and DVanderzell

I’ll start on the oldest ThruLine. DVanderzell’s Tree matches the ThruLine conclusions:

The tree above has Susannah and the ThruLine has Sukey which I take to be the same person.

I’ll start a quick tree to check DVanderzell’s Tree. Winston was born in Taunton, MA. From Winston’s birth record, his father was from Dighton, MA:

The family soon moved to Montclair, NJ:

Here is the previous generation in Dighton, MA:

So far, the tree is checking out:

I am now looking for Jonathan Hathaway:

The family was in Dighton in 1850:

Jonathan to Susannah Sukey Talbot

From Jonathan’s death record, we see his mother is Susan:

At this point, I may want to attack the question from both ends. By that, I mean from the Jonathan end as well as the Sarah Luther side. I do have that Sarah married in 1773. I could go out on a limb and guess that she may have been born around 1753.

One reference to Susannah had this:

Here is the record for Sukey Talbot:

So there are two Jonathan Hathaways.

Sukey Talbot to Sarah Luther

The female connections are more difficult due to the name changes. I have this record from Dighton:

That means that all I am missing is a birth record for Susannah or Sukey Talbot. Here is the missing link:

A First Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree

Here Joyce and DVanerzell show as 6th cousins which agrees with the Ancestry ThruLines.

Joyce and Pat (Sally Luther Line)

Pat has a good tree, but the line diverges at Polly Sartwell:

Pat has her mother as Martha Goodenough. In addition, in my own tree, I have that Sally Luther married James Spooner. I am tempted to pull the plug on Pat for now.

Joyce and RWU12 (Gardner Luther)

RW’s tree diverges before Gardner Luther II:

Here are the Dighton records:

I am trying to figure out how to interpret this. It appears that Gardner Luther in my tree married a Nancy Horton in 1803. He then dies in 1825. Then there is a second Gardner Luther in Dighton. He dies in 1809. I am guessing that he is the son of the other Gardner and that this Gardner was born in 1807 and died in 1809. Then there appears to be a question as to whether the first Gardner Luther married a Nancy Horton or a Nancy Kelton.

I am now cutting corners to save time:

This Gardner is interesting because his parents were Gardner and Nancy Luther. He dies in 1875 on November 6, so would be born around 1809. Also this:

All this leads to the possibility that the ThruLine could be right.

I’ll start a quick tree for RW:

RW’s mother’s birth record was amended, so is not yet available. I’ll have to assume that RW knew who his grandparents were. Here is RW’s 15 year old grandfather in 1900 in Swansea:

At this point, I am checking into Elizabeth from the above Census.

Here is a 1907 North Attleborough Marriage record for William giving his mother’s name as Elizabeth Willmarth:

Here is a good hint. In 1880, Elizabeth was listed as the granddaughter of a Luther:

I got this 1906 Swansea marriage from RW’s tree:

I’ll just take it on face value. My tree is following RW’s so far:

Here is Mary’s marriage record:

Turns out Clement was quite a bit older than Mary and this was her second marriage.

Here two Luthers married.

Here is the family in 1850 in Swansea:

This could be Mary’s first marriage:

Here is the family in 1855:

This proves that the marriage between Mary Luther and Josiah Tucker above was correct.

Gardner dies in 1886 in Swansea and gives the names of Gardner and Mary Luther for his parents who are both said to have been born in Swansea:

Now we have come full circle, however, I had Gardner Sr. marrying a Nancy, so the death record could be wrong?

I have shown a connection from this Gardner to the elder Gardner and that the younger Gardner lived in Swansea most of his life.

Updating the Luther Tree

I gave the chart some color so it wouldn’t just be boring gray. RWU shows as a 5th cousin once removed to Joyce. This is also what the ThruLine suggested, so it checks out. The only thing I didn’t check into was who was the Charlotte Luther who married Gardner Luther?

Joyce and Lynn (Polly Luther Line)

Now we are back to Lynn:

The maternal side of Lynn’s tree agrees with the ThruLine – going back to our common ancestors:

All I need to do now is to build a parallel tree to Lynn’s to see if it checks out. This tree is starting out in Arkansas. I am having a little trouble finding Leatrice. I would think that she would be easy to find, but sometimes with a different name, the name is miss-spelled. Here is the 1930 Census:

I found this in the hints on the ThruLines. Leatrice is here transcribed as Leatrei. In addition, the last name is transcribed as Tolbert. The father was a school instructor and his family was from Mississippi.

Here is Marcus in 1900 in Mississippi:

Marcus’ father was a farmer (I don’t show but he was on the previous page). His father was from Massachusetts. Bingo.

 

The transcriber gives the father’s first name as Allen which I can now see. The mother is Telisia or something similar. I have seen that name before.

The Census records help me quickly build a parallel tree for Lynn:

Here is Allen with his family in 1850:

I don’t know much about Mississippi, but Marshall County where they lived is not too far from Memphis:

I am guessing Ephraim moved South before marrying as his wife was from Tennessee.

Talbot to Luther?

We are trying to figure out if Ephraim’s mother was Polly Luther. This record from Dighton is helpful:

Next, I just have to figure out if Marcy is the same as Polly. She is:

I assume that I got the name Polly from a genealogy book. It is confusing and I should put her name back to Mary. My understandiing is that Molly is a nickname for Mary which sometimes was changed to Polly.

Last Tree Update – for Now

Here is the new and improved Luther Tree:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Out of the 4 Luther Lines I looked into, I was able to make connections on three
  • The Luther Line has a rich heritage and history in the part of Massachusetts around Swansea and Dighton.
  • This is my first Luther DNA/Genealogy Tree and verifies the Ancestry ThruLines
  • Using DNA plus genealogy is a powerful tool in creating surname trees.

 

 

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My Churchill ThruLines

I have been going through my ThruLines and updating or creating DNA/Genealogy Charts for them. In this Blog, I’ll look at my Churchill ThruLines. The people who have tested in my family are:

  • my three sisters, one brother and me
  • my father’s cousin Joyce
  • my father’s cousin Maury

My Churchill Genealogy

The Churchills are related to my Pilgrim Bradford genealogy:

My great-grandmother Annie Snell had the Pilgrim ancestry on her mother’s side. Lucy Churchill married Samuel Bradford who was a descendant of Governor Bradford of the Mayflower. Lucy lived in Plymouth, MA. Her parents were Stephen Churchill and Lucy Burbank. As I recall, Stephen Churchill was a cooper by trade or a barrel maker in the Colonial Town of Plymouth. According to Wikipedia:

 Churchill ThruLines

My sister Lori has the most Churchill ThruLines with two, though the level of DNA matches are low:

The names Peleg and Heman are in white which means they are already in my tree.

Stephen had a big family which is good for producing descendants and ThruLines.

Lori and Herb

Ancestry wants me to evaluae Herb’s connection. Here is what Herb shows for his paternal side tree:

Herb shows the father being from Plymouth, so hopefully that will be easy to track. There appears to be some confusion in herb’s father already. The ThruLines have Elmer C P Chandler and herb’s tree has Elmer Carlton Paul. I did find this record from WWII:

The 1930 Census for Kingston, MA could give an explanation:

Elmer is living with his grandparents and their last name is Paul.

The Social Security record is helpful:

It appears that Eva may have married a Gomes based on the 1945 record above. Of the trees that I have found, this one seems to make the most sense to me:

Here we have the three generations of Elmes Chandlers.

In support of the genealogy, I notice that my father’s 1st cousin Joyce also has a small match with herb:

With that in mind, I continue. This is the Tree I have so far that I would like to get up to Peleg Churchill:

James Chandler to Eliza Churchill

James Chandler was living in Duxbury, MA as a shoemaker in 1860:

Here is Eliza in 1850 in Duxbury, MA:

Her husband appears to be a Hatter.

Eliza Churchill to Peleg Churchill

I am having trouble finding a record to connect these two people. I did find this under a Mayflower Application:

This application was approved in 1921. That genealogy check did not go as smoothly as I had hoped.

My First Churchill DNA/Genealogy Tree

Churchill gets overshadowed due to the Bradford connection. I have tended to focus in more on the Bradford Lines in the past.

Lori and Butterflies on the Heman Churchill Line

That is an interesting heading name. My goal is to prove or disprove this connection:

This is the extent of butterflies’ maternal line in the direction I an interested in:

I will likely be looking for the wife of William Evans on the top right of her tree. I’ll start my own tree for butterflies to see if I can verify the 200 years of genealogy back to our common ancestors.

Beverly’s father Roger was a printer in New London, CT:

It is helpful to now have the 1950 Census to look at.

Roger’s father William was born in New York and was a caretaker at New London Parks:

I next want to follow Ruby or Ruba:

Based on this, I’m willing to accept the Ancestry hints:

Evans to Churchill

Here is someone’s transcription of a newpaper article:

Here Theodore is said to be the son of Jane A Churchill. However, my Ancestry hint has this:

However, the 1850 Census has Theodore’s father from Wales:

I accepted the Ancestry hint for William Evans and Jane Churchill.

Jane to Heman Churchill

This connection is mentioned in many genealogies, but what is the evidence? In Heman’s will, he only mentions two daughters, but not Jane:

That did not mean that he did not have other children. It turns out that Heman who was also a cooper owed a lot of people a lot of money and was also insolvent like his brother Peleg.

It appears that Haman had a lot of deaths in the family:

This was from:

Massachusetts: Vital Records, 1620-1850 (Online Database: AmericanAncestors.org, New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2001-2016).

https://www.americanancestors.org/DB190/i/14012/503/253533102

Heman apparently belonged to the Baptist Church. I don’t know if that makes finding the records more difficult.

This Ancestry Tree has this summary for Heman Churchill:

Unfortunately, at this point, I am stuck. Jane Churchill Evans has that she was born in New York. The Jane Churchill I am looking for should have been born in Massachusetts as that is where Heman Churchill lived to my knowledge. So I have not proved or disproved the connection.

Joyce and Patricia

I’ll take a look at this ThruLine:

Joyce and Patricia share a pretty good DNA match for 5th cousins. I will try to prove or disprove Patricia’s connection to my family via Jocye:

Here is what Patricia shows on her paternal side:

The ThruLines want me to head toward Ellen Augusta Leach. I see from the 1920 Census that John’s mother’s parents were born in Massachusetts:

Also the name Earle comes up in that Census.

Here is the family in 1880 in San Francisco:

I’m cutting corners a little, but I feel like Patricia’s tree is right and plus Slade above was born in Massachusetts. However, it is really his wife Ellen that I am interested in.

Now my tree looks a little more like Patricia’s:

I need to see if the Churchill connection is right. Slade and Ellen married in 1864 in Lynn, MA:

Ellen was from Plymouth originally and her mother was also an Ellen. Here is a summary of the Leach family in 1850:

Here is the marriage from 1830:

At this point, I am on track with the ThruLines:

Fortunately, Ellen’s father left a will where he clearly states that Eleanor was his daughter:

This Daniel was also a cooper.

I already have Daniel in my family tree, so I’ll add him to my Churchill DNA/Genealogy Chart:

So now I have gone up the genealogy and back down again. Patricia matches Joyce and I don’t have her on my chart. Also I need to fix my side of the chart:

Joyce and Laura

Joyce and Ashley have a large match, because the major match is on Joyce’s paternal side. That is the side that she is not related to me. So I’ll go with Laura. Laura has a large tree:

Unfortunately, her tree diverges at the point of her paternal grandmother. That could make the connection difficult as I would think that Laura would know her grandmother.

Here is the family in 1920 in Penobsctot, ME:

It looks like there was anothegenr Joseph Fernald Leach born in Abington, MA. That appears to be the confusion in the trees, so I will not bother to pursue this further.

Other Churchill ThruLinMes

Maury is my father’s 1st cousin (like Joyce). As such, his Churchill ThruLines go back an additional generation. However, my second cousin manages his DNA and does not have the Churchills in his ancestry. So he doesn’t show any Churchill ThruLines.

I’ll show Joyce’s ThruLines going back one generation:

This family did not hold back on the obscure names. How many people can say they have a Zadock in their ancestry?

Joyce and L.B

I’ll give this a shot. James shows a possible 6th cousin to Joyce on Joyce’s paternal side also – the side I am not related on.

LB’s tree is mostly filled out in the direction of Bathsheba Churchill. As usual, I will build out a tree, to see if I can get to Bathsheba and Zadock Churchill.

I found a birth record for Florence:

Her mom checks out as Annie L. Nelson.

Here is the marriage record for Annie:

Here is the family in 1880 in Androscoggin, ME:

That Census also gave me an approximate birthdate for Sally or Sarah:

Sarah’s death record gives her father’s name:

Here is the family in 1850 in Buckfield, ME:

There is also a Thankful on the next page. Miles was born in Massachusetts which is a good sign. Miles was born in Middleborough, MA:

This Thomas ended up in Buckfield, ME:

I see they have a Zadoc and a Bathsheba Churchilll Bearce in the family which is a good sign.

From Colonial Families of the USA, 1607-1775:

Bathsheba to Zadock

Here is an approved Mayflower application from 1929:

This seems to tie the loose ends together.

Here is the amended and corrected Churchill DNA/Genealogy Tree:

I previously had Stephen Churchill born 1743 married to Hannah Barnes, so I corrected that mistake.

Do Joyce and Diana Have Churchill Common Ancestors?

ThruLines has Diana going back to a Polly Churchill. I do not appear to have Polly in my tree. Diana shows her paternal grandfather being from Plymouth County, Massachusetts:

I’ll create my own tree to see if the ThruLines make sense.

Here is Edwin’s birth record in Middleborough, MA:

His mother is recorded as Mary Dixon, born in Plymouth. Here is the family in Plymouth:

Jacob’s marriage record gives his father’s name:

In 1850 Plymouth, Samuel was a cooper:

According to Samuel’s death record, his mother was Mary Churchill:

Here is part of Stephen Churchill’s will from 1821:

In it, he names Stephen Jr., Lucy, Hannah, Meriah, Nancy, Sally, Polly and Betsy, Heman and Daniel. I have that Peleg died in 1810 which would be why I don’t see him here.

Finishing the Churchill DNA/Genealogy Tree (for Now)

Here my Churchill Tree is filling out nicely:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to add three lines under Stephen Churchill born 1743
  • I previously did not have the Line of Polly Churchill born 1786
  • I tried to connect a proposed descendant of Heman Churchill, but that proved tooo difficult
  • I add one Zadock Line. Zadock was the son of an earlier Stephen Churchill born 1717 in Plymouth.
  • My father’s cousin Joyce was helpful in most of these matches
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My Cowen/Cowing ThruLines

My Massachusetts genealogy has two sides. One side is my Pilgrim ancestors and the other side is my non-Pilgrim ancestors:

My great-grandmother Annie Louisa Snell was the source of my Massachusetts heritage. Her maternal side was the non-pilgrim ancestry and the bottom side or maternal side of the tree above was the Pilgrim ancestry lead off my Harvey Bradford.

DNA/Genealogy Trees

Looking through my files I see these Trees:

  • Snell
  • Parker
  • Hatch
  • Bradford
  • Hathaway

What I don’t see for trees:

  • Luther
  • Churchill
  • Cowing

I would like to update my old trees and add trees where necessary. The last time I started looking at this subject, I looked at Hathaway and realized I had a lot of people in that tree and more to add. This time, I would like to look at Luther, Churchill and Cowing.

Cowing

I know this name from my home town as Cowen. However, the more historical spelling is Cowing or Cowin. I don’t recall writing about any ThruLines for Cowing. Here are some from Joyce, my father’s first cousin:

Joyce and my family are under Experience Cowing. Joyce has no additional ThruLines under Israel Cowing, but she has three ThruLines through Jonathan and Patience Cowing. First, I’ll loo at Christine:

This has happened before. When I choose Kristine from the ThruLines and then check her common ancestors, I come out with a different line. I am curious to see if the Cowen connection is correct.

Here is Kristen’s paternal side from her own tree:

Here is the family in Middleborough, MA in 1930:

Philip was a chauffer for the Town. Philip was born in Westport, but his birth record shows that his father was born in Mattapoisett:

Here is Philip and his father Sanford and family in Westport, MA in 1900:

Sandford was a farmer.

Here is my tree for Kristine:

Mattapoisett became a Town in 1857, the year before Sanford was born. I just need to show that the Ruth above was Ruth Cowen.

Here is the 1865 Census for Mattapoisett:

Findagrave shows this for Ruth:

My tree now suggests that Kristine does go back to Seth Cowen:

My understanding is that Kristine should be a 5th cousin to Joyce. So that is a little closer than the 5th cousin once removed on the Hathaway side. The DNA match would be either from the Cowen side or the Hathaway side. There is no easy way of knowing.

A First Cowen DNA/Genealogy Tree

That line was relatively easy to trace as the family stayed fairly local.

Helen and Joyce

The next family is fun because it involves a genealogy friend, Helen, who lives down the street from me:

If I can show that Helen matches  Joyce by DNA, it gives creedence to our genealogical research. I trust Helen’s research, so feel no need to evaluate it. Here is her tree:

Helen’s line goes to Seth Cowing Hiller, then to Patience Cowing and then to our most recents common ancestors, Seth Cowing and Penelope Crapo.

I’ll add Frances and Helen to the Tree:

A few interesting things about this tree:

  • These three lines represent three Cowing children born within about 4 years
  • These families mostly stayed in the same part of Massachusetts for about 300 years and if you look at the Mayflower ancestors, that would have our families here for 400 years, so we have deep roots in this part of SE Massachusetts.

Jon and Shaun

My sister Heidi and I have no Cowing ThruLines from Seth Cowing, but my brother Jon has one:

Shaun has a modest tree, but has more on his maternal side. I don’t have a tree for Shaun, so I will create one. Shaun does show that his maternal great-grandfather was from New Bedford:

This obituary ties Stacey Smith to Francis Swift:

Francis was born in Utah and wed in Wyoming:

Here is the 1930 Census for Salt Lake City:

Here is my tree so far:

I forgot to mention, that when I look at the specific match for Jon and Shaun, a Hathaway connection shows up. It is likely that Jon and Shaun are connected on both lines:

This comes up now because there is a Hathaway in Shaun’s Line.

The marriage record for Francis and Amanda has a lot of information:

This has Francis born in Sandwich rather than New Bedford. It also has their parents’ names.  Here is a tree update:

Where Hattaway is likely a transcription error for Hathaway.

Here is the book transcription of the marriage of Nathan Swift and Pamelia Cowing:

And here is her birth record:

So it is pretty clear where this is going as Israel is the son of Seth Cowing.

Here I have the connection between my brother Jon and Shaun:

I did not check out the Hathaway connection, but that one is likely also. That means, that it is unclear as to whether the actual DNA that Jon and Shaun share are from the Hathaway side or Cowing side.

Lori and Gretchen

I see that my sister Lori has a potential Cowing connection with Gretchen:

The good news is that I already have Matthew Hiller in my tree, so I just need to get Gretchen back to Matthew instead of to the colonial Seth Cowing. I am having trouble finding Seth from the information that Gretchen has:

Gretchen has that Seth died in New York City. I found this draft card:

The only problem is that the tree I got this from has Seth’s wife as Grace Appel:

Gretchen’s tree suggests a Webster as the wife.

Looking at Helen’s ThruLines

I thought of another way to substantiate Gretchen. I have access to Helen’s ThruLines:

Clearly, Gretchen has a large match to Helen and is related. Here is Helen’s tree:

The other three that show as children of Matthew Hiller could not be from Beuretta Webster Hammon if Helen’s tree is right as Beuretta dies in 1880.

Here is the family in 1900:

Charles is apparently out of the house, but George, David and Jennie from Helen’s ThruLines are there. This seems to be a good enough of a connection for me.

I’ll add Gretchen to the tree:

Gretchen and my brother Jon are 5th cousins once removed.

My sister Lori also matches Gretchen. Also my sister Sharon matches Shaun.

Cousin Maury’s ThruLines

My father’s cousin Maury has also tested at Ancestry. He has these ThruLines to Cowing:

Maury and my family are under Experience Cowing. The Hiller family is under Patience Cowing. Here are Maury’s ThruLines on the Hiller side:

Maury and P.S.

Since I last wrote, I see another ThruLine for Maury. It is on a different Cowing Line that I would like to investigate:

Mary is the oldest child of Seth Cowing on the ThruLines. Mary is on my tree. She must have married Philipp Briggs:

We are trying to go from the Wing back to the Nye family:

Here is Addie’s birth record from 1864 in Sandwich:

Addie’s father, George B. was a butcher.

Here is the family in 1870:

Next, I just need to find George’s mother. George’s death record gives his mother’s name and birthplace:

Here the Cowing Tree is filling out:

Co

This is not as far as I could go, but it is as far as I would like to go for now.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able, with not too much difficulty, to pretty good Cowing DNA/Genealogy Tree thanks to my father’s cousins Joyce and Maury and my brother Jon
  • In some cases the common ancestors also came up as Hathaway. That is probably partly because my ancestor Experience Cowing married Joseph Hathaway. However, the matches would have had to have had Hathaways in their ancestry also
  • In other cases where Hathawy did not show up in the ThruLine matches, I assume that Hathaway ancestry was not there in the DNA match – at least during the time period that we are looking at.
  • I am ready to move on to more DNA/Genealogy Trees

 

 

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My Emmet ThruLines

I am interested in looking into Emmet ThruLines. Just for fun, to see what comes of it.

Emmet Genealogy

This is from my Ancestry Tree:

My second great-grandmother Ann Emmet was born in 1829 in Bacup, Lancashire.

Emmet ThruLines

Here is what my father’s cousin Joyce has going back to Edmund Emmet born 1727:

My father’s cousin Maury has a similar set of ThruLines with one additional person added:

I was excited to look into this because I do not believe that I have made an Emmet DNA/Genealogy Chart yet. Also in looking into this Blog, I saw an interesting tree that appeared to have great research.

My Family’s ThruLines to Edmund Emmet Bory 1727

I don’t have any, but my sister Heidi does:

Heidi adds the match Julia.

My brother Jon has money 40.

My sisters Lori and Sharon have no ThruLines at this level like me.

Maury and Banker

I’ll go with Banker’s Tree as she has as good one:

Her tree goes back to Alice Emmett. I also see the Pilling name which pops up a lot.

This death certificate for Rowland gives his parents’ names:

Here is the family in 1881:

I think this is Shawclough:

We next need to find Joseph’s mother. According to the 1861 Census, Joseph’s mother was Alice, born in Haslingdon:

Here is the marriage record which mentions Alice Emmett:

The Census records have Alice from Haslingdon:

The Alice Emmet to Richard Emmet Connection

This connection is not as clear to me. The Trees at Ancestry have the connection, but they do not say how they got there:

1811 was before Civil Registration and apparently there have been no records found. That is when I submit that DNA evidence can add to the evidence that this is the correct Line.

Here is the summary of Richard Emmet from the Smith Tree at Ancestry. That is the tree that I looked at and found to be very well researched:

Edit: Through subsequent conversations with David, the creator of the Tree above, he tells me that there is a will that connects

A Geographical Check

If Richard and my ancestor Edmund Emmet were brothers, they would have had to have lived in the same area. Sounds basic. Here is Richard’s baptismal record, looking quite old:

This baptism happened at Goodshaw, St. Mary and All Saints. Here is Goodshaw:

The Tree above has Richard from Lumb or Water and born in 1767. I have that my ancestor Edmund Emmet was born in 1759 in High Edge Goodshaw. Here is the baptismal record:

Due to a search on Google, I see that this should be Hugh Edge.

I don’t know how accurate these house renditions are, but they are interesting. Perhaps the Emmets lived in one of these houses around 1767. As Edmund and Richard were baptized at the same Church and had the same parents, I assume that they were brothers.

Emmet DNA/Genealogy Map

Turns out I already had Richard in my Ancestry Tree:

Here is my tree:

This is not actually perfect as Banker was a match to Maury, my father’s first cousin. This should more accurately display the relationships:

Now that the line from Banker to Richard seems likely, the other lines should follow. As the Stansfield tree seems well documented, I will add Anne and money40:

Keep in mind that not all the people on my side of the tree match all the people on the Richard Emmet side of the tree, but a lot do.

Heidi and Julia

My sister Heidi has a ThruLine with Julia that I have not evaluated:

Julia has a huge family tree with over 33,000 people in it. Of interest to me are Julia’s DNA designations on her tree:

That tells me that Julia is perhaps thinking like me in using DNA as evidence to support her family tree. I do see Betty Emmet in the records:

Here is Loveclough:

I also caught Lower Hugh Edge at the bottom right of the map. Based on this information, I am tempted to not bother verifying Julia’s tree and just accept it.

Here my Emmet DNA/Genealogy Tree appears to be finalized for now:

Bonus on Isaac Emmet

From mucking around the tree which I mentioned above that David built, I found a Willl for Isaac Emmet (or Emmett):

Isaac was my third great-grandfather. I am not sure that I was aware of this document before. Or if I was, I don’t recall it. This is certainly Isaac, as he was from Stubby Lee.

Here is the Mary Stott mentioned in the Will:

Mary was the one taking care of the rest of the family in 1851 when the father was a servant at Stubbylee Hall. I wrote a Blog about this in 2018.

Although Mary is shown as the head, I note that the whole household was working. My second great-grandmother Ann must have been second in command.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I looked at DNA matches to two of my father’s cousins on their Emmet ThruLines
  • I checked one line going back to Richard Emmet that seemed to be likely based on location and the same parents.
  • That connection lead to common ancestors of Edmund Emmet born 1727 and his wife Mary Omerod
  • The first connectionwas on a Stansfield Line which seemed well documented. There were two other Stansfield Line DNA matches which I added to an Emmet DNA/Genealogy Tree
  • I then added a line which went back to a different daugther of Richard Emmet born 1767. This daughter was better documented than the daughter that produced the Stansfield Line.
  • These four DNA matches as well as other Ancestry Trees support the Emmet genealogy I have done previously.

 

 

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Hartley ThruLines Part 7

This is an extensive series of Hartley ThruLines, but I feel like I am getting further back on my Hartley ancestral line than I have in years of genealogical research that did not use DNA.

In this Blog, I would like to look at this ThruLine:

This is a ThruLine between Joyce, my father’s first cousin and hudson. The ThruLine for Hudson goes by way of John, born 1771, son of John Hartley.

First, I look to see if I have created a tree for Hudson and it appears that I have not. Hudson has a good tree:

However, it has a blank right where I need it. I assume that Hudson lives in Australia:

Here is Humphrey and family in Burnley in 1911:

Interestingly, Humphrey’s wife was from Philadelphia.

Looking for Humphrey Layfield’s Mother

It doesn’t take much to figure out that Humphrey’s mother’s first name was Hannah. This is the Census for Burnley and this family was all born in Burnley according to thie Census.

This record is helpful:

That leads me to this tree:

I need to verify that Elizabeth’s father was Thomas Hartley. An Ancestry member kindly posted this image:

The name Hitchon is a new one to me, but it is not the line that I am interested in. We do see Thomas Hartley as Eliizabeth’s father. This appears to be Briercliffe where Elizabeth was born:

Could this be the same Hannah Hartley?

It appears that Thomas Hartley could have died soon after the birth of Elizabeth Hartley. Based on hints, this is my best guess for the marriage of Thomas Hartley:

Who was the Father of Thomas Hartley?

We are looking for a John. Thomas’ first son was named John, possibly after Thomas’ father. It appears that this is a bit difficult. Here are clues from Ancestry:

There was a marriage for this couple in Burnley:

However, I cannot tell if this would lead me back to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. I do see this hint from the ThruLines:

However, I am not convinced of this connection at this point.

Other Hartley/Bracewell ThruLines: Joel and Nora

I do not believe that I have looked at this connection:

Lets take a look. Nora’s mom was from Texas. Nora’s grandfather was born in Pennsylvania, but his parents were from England. Here is the 1920 Census from Fort Worth, Texas:

I am looking for Samuel’s mother. In 1870, the family was in Philadelphia:

Here is my evolving tree for Nora:

Nora’s tree is pretty good and goes to the Robert and Peggy that I have documented already:

However, there is a conflict with a tree I already have for Karen:

Was Ann Elizabeth Longbotham Originally a Tomkinson?

This is probably Richard Longbottom in 1841 in Salford:

There was an Elizabeth Tomkinson who traveled to Philadelphi:

She appears to be with her father and mother. Here is the family 1841 in Pendleton, Salford, Manchester:

From this, I turned the page on the arriving immigrants from England:

Assuming I have the right woman, she must have married in Philadelphia. I feel like I am again using the criteria of ‘is this line possible?’ rather than can I prove this line.

According to the 1851 Census, Elizabeth and her family were born in Salford:

Was Ann Tomkinson a Hartley?

There appears to be more documentation here. This record is a bit messy:

William Tomkinson dies in 1915 and his mother should be Ann Hartley, however, it is transcribed as ‘Fathly’.

Here is an entry from ,

Genealogical memoirs of various families of Tomkinson (1620-1904) by Newton Powers Tomkinson, published 1904 in Philadelphia

Here is the transcription of the wedding mentioned above:

More on Nora’s Hartley Ancestry

Let’s check the Tomkinson Genealogy on the Hartleys. Here is a marriage between John Hartley and Elizabeth Crossley:

Next, a lot would be riding on the birth date of John Hartley. The most logical choice appears to be this John:

Generally speaking, babies were baptized fairly soon after birth unless there were extenuating circumstances. In this scenario, John Hartley from Waterside moves to the Manchester area where he marries in 1802.

I get these other hints from Ancestry:

This appears to be Elizabeth Crossley Hartley livign in Salford in 1851 with her unmarried daughter and grandson. This Elizabeth was born in Rochdale:

This baptismal date is the same as the birth date for Elizabeth given in the Tomkinson Genealogy above.

Ancestry also gives this hint for the 1841 Census in Manchester:

It appears that these two trees cannot both be right going back to Robert Hartley and John Hartley. Here is the proposed one for this Blog:

Here is the Tree for my previous Blog:

Note here I have John born 1796 based on the 1841 Census, but based on an Ancestry Tree, I decided that he could have been born in 1779.

It appears that there are pro’s and con’s for each of these trees:

  • The dates matched better with Nora’s tree, but not the location. It was unclear why John Hartley would move from Colne to Manchester or it was unclear that he did so
  • The locations matched better on Karen’s tree, but the dates seemed off.

Further, as I look at Joyce’s ThruLines, I no longer see my friend Elaine on her list:

These ThruLines are definitely in a state of flux. My solution for now is to give a tint to Elaine’s and Karen’s lines:

I don’t know what to do with Nora’s line for now as that would show a different wife for John Hartley. I do note that Nora matches my siblings Jon, Lori and Sharon. I haven’t tested one brother at Ancestry and one sister did not match Nora. The interesting thing is that these two ThruLines appear that conflict with each other. One is from my family and one is from my father’s 1st cousin.

Here is Nora’s Line shaded in green:

Here is the whole tree:

This completes for now the series on John Hartley/Anne Bracewell ThruLines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It can be confusing trying to sort out Hartley Genealogy in the area of Colne, Lancashire. DNA matches should help to direct this genealogy in certain directions
  • In 2019, I started looking at DNA matches from two people who appeaered to be descendants of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. Because of this connection I added John Hartley and Anne Bracewell to my Ancestry Tree
  • Ancestry then looked for and found other DNA matches with possible connections to Anne Bracewell and John Hartley using ThruLines
  • When I checked the ThruLines, most lines seemed to connect to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • However, near the end of the series, most questions arose on at least a few of the Lines. One problem was that there were two possible ways one of the Lines could have gone and didn’t seem that both could be true.
  • Next, ThruLines for my father’s first cousin Joyce goes back a further generation. I would like to look at those connections.

 

 

 

 

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Hartley ThruLines Part 6

In the past five Blogs on Hartley ThruLines, I have looked at the ThruLines coming down from my potential ancestors John Hartley and Anne Bracewell through their children Nancy Hartley and Robert Hartley:

In this Blog, I will look at the ThruLines by way of Susan or Susy Hartley born 1755. These are the ThruLines my father’s cousin Joyce has through Susan:

There are pb, nx and Sheryl. Nx is a new match as seen by the blue dot. I looked at Sheryl in a 2019 Blog that got me thinking that John Hartley and Anne Bracewell could very well be my ancestors.

pb and Joyce

pb’s Ancestry Tree is private, so I cannot look at it but he and Joyce have Sheryl as a shared DNA match, so that  is promising. I’ll try creating my own tree for pb to see if it matches up with his ThruLines. The findagrave entry was confusing, so I looked at the social security record for pb’s mother:

That means that we have to get this family from Kansas back to Colne, Lancashire.

Here is the family in 1930 in Lone Elm, Kansas. Vera’s mother Olive was a grade school teacher:

Findagrave is more helpful for Oive:

My ancestry tree for pb is starting to fill out:

Following the Bracewell Line

Here are some Bracewells from the 1870 Iowa Census:

Father Starkey or Starky was born in England and they have a son named Hartley. Here is a photo of ‘Starkie’ from Ancestry:

The 1880 Census transcribes his name as Ataskis. However, I see Starkie:

Fortunately, Starkey is a fairly uncommon name. Here is Starkey in 1841 in Foulridge:

It looks like he was born at Hey Mill? My best guess for Mary is Mary Starkie:

I wish that the marriage record mentioned the father of John Bracewell. ThruLines has that John Bracewell was borno in 1778, but if he was 45 in 1841, then he would have been born in 1796. If he was 79 rounded down to 45, he would have been born about 1792.

One of the ThruLine sources gives this information for Susan or Susy Hartley:

They have Susan the daughter of John Hartley and Ann (who I interpret to be Bracewell). They have that Susy and Joseph Bracewell had a son named Hartley Bracewell. I take this Hartley to be the witness at the marriage of John Bracewell and Mary Starkie. I would further guess that John and Hartley Bracewell were brothers.

This Tree has John as the son of Joseph Bracewell and Susan Hartley:

However, they have John born 1796 based on the Census. I believe that John must have been born earlier:

Again, I have not proved this line, but have shown that it could be possible.

The James Hartley witness could be my ancestor. This appears to be Susy’s baptismal transcription:

Adding pb to my tree:

I mentioned at the start of the Blog that pb and Joyce aslo match Sheryl, but I have not added her to the tree yet.

Adding Sheryl to the Tree

I will assume that my work that put Sheryl on this tree in 2019 still applies.

This is interesting because pb and Sheryl are 4th cousins to each other. This also shows that the only likely way that pb and Sheryl could match Joyce would to be through the Bracewell or Hartley Lines.

Joyce and nx

It appears that the match between Joyce and nx should provide additional branching:

All I have to do is show that nx has ancestry back to John Bracewell born in 1834. NX also has a private tree, so I will have to use the ThruLines to check his Line.

Here is William from findagrave:

Here is Winnie in the 1900 Census for Iowa:

Here is NX in my tree:

NX and Joyce also have a shared DNA match with Sheryl which makes sense as Sheryl and NX are 3rd cousins.

Joel and Gillian

I also have a ThruLine with Gillian:

Gillian’s Line appears to go through Hartley Bracewell born in 1788. One odd feature of this tree is that it goes from hartley Bracewell to Jane Bracewell to John E Bracewell. I would have expected to have three male Bracewells in a row.

This Gillian’s tree:

Somehow Ancestry has figured out her descent from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell from other sources. It appears that I started a tree for Gillian previously, but didn’t get very far:

Hints from the ThruLines tell me that Philip and Ernest were from Burnley:

Here are Ernest and Mary in 1939 in Burnley:

Here is the family in 1901 in Burnley

This appears to be John in 1871:

John’s mother Jane is from Colne, so I won’t give up yet. This is my guess for the marriage of William and Jane:

This appears to be the young family in 1851:

At this point, I am ready to give up on the Gillian Line as it is too complicated.

Here is the full Hartley/Bracewell Tree so far:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I now have the lines of four of the children of John Hartley born 1730 and Anne Bracewell
  • In this Blog I looked at and added three lines from daughter Susy Bracewell born 1755
  • I looked at an additional line, but was unable to get it to connect to the Susy Line.
  • I still have at least one more Blog to write on this topic.
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Hartley ThruLines Part 5

From my previous Blog, here is my Hartley DNA/Genealogy Tree:

These are people that match either me by DNA or my father’s 1st cousin Joyce. Except for Paul. I can’t remember where he came from. All these people also have a possible connection to John Hartley and Anne Bracewell who are my possible 5th great-grandparents.

In this Blog, I will look a little more into the Line of Robert Hartley born 1758. I have mentioned Elaine in a few of my previous Blogs on Hartley ThruLines. She helped me with some local geography in the area around Colne. I connected with one of her genealogy trees which helped me on the Mary Lee born 1801 Line above. She is a friend also. And she also appears on my father’s cousin Joyce’s ThruLines:

Karen also shows up there. I have a Paul on my DNA/Genealogy tree also, but don’ t recall who matched him.

Elaine and Joyce

Unfortunately, Elaine’s tree does not show the same connection as the ThruLine:

At the point where ThruLines goes Thomas > Robert > John, Elaine’s tree goes from Thomas > James > Thomas. I’ll take a look to see how these two trees differ.

Here are Albert and family in 1891:

Here is Robert with his family in 1871:

Here is my simple reconstructed tree so far:

In 1861, Thomas Hartley was living at Laneshaw Bridge in Colne:

Here is some more information on Thomas Hartley:

Here is some more information:

This is interesting as the 1841 Census took place before this time. Elaine shows this as the 1841 Census for the family:

Here father Thomas is shown as a weaver rather than a farmer. Back to a weaver at son Thomas’ birth:

Who was the Father of Thomas Hartley?

I have a feeling that Elaine’s answer will be better than Ancestry on this one. Both the ThruLines and Elaine’s tree have a Thomas Hartley born 1788. When I check for the evidence of Thomas Hartley in the ThruLines, I get this:

There is one member tree, but when I look at clive’s tree, it is the same as Elaine’s. Here are some baptisms for Thomas in 1788:

Is this the same person?

At any rate, none of these Thomases are the son of a Robert Hartley. Here are the only Thomases, sons of Roberts I could find:

If there was a connection, it would have to be with the second entry, as I have that Robert married Peggy, a nickname for Margaret. Having said that, I see that the Mary I have on my tree is here:

This was the match with Paul that I cannot remember entering:

For now I’ll leave Elaine off my DNA/Genealogy Chart. I have only showed that she could fit into that chart. It occurs to me that there are many other ways in which we may be related. However, I have shown, at least in a quick overview, that it is possible that her genealogy could connect with John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. As I review this line further, more information may come to light.

Joyce and Karen

On Karen’s tree, she has traced her ancestry back to a Robert Hartley:

Assuming that Karen’s tree is correct, it appears that the Robert in her tree could be the one from the ThruLines. That is, based on the date of hte birth of John Hartley in 1796. However, on closer inspection, I see that Hannah Hartley was from Rawtenstall:

Rawtenstall is several miles from Colne and closer to my Emmet ancestors who lived in Bacup:

Time to check out Karen’s tree. Here is a young Charles Harvey and his family:

Charles’ father Richard was a quarry man. Here is my specific tree in progress:

However, it is Betsy that we are intrerested in. According to the 1911 Census above, the whole family was born in Rossendale. This appears to be a general area including Rawtenstall:

This appears to be the marriage registration index for Betsy Terry:

Here are Betsy’s family in the 1871 Census for Rawtenstarll. Betsy is on the next page:

Hannah Hartley Terry

It appears that Hannah Terry was born in Rutt Lee? The 1881 Census shows that Hannah has passed away:

So Hannah should be born around 1826. According to the 1861 Census, Thomas either had a different wife, or Hannah also went by Nancy:

Here is an interesting entry for a Hannah Hartley:

I should note that I have Howorth in my ancestry. However, Ancestry has this hint:

I see that as a good choice due to this bapstismal entry:

The problem (or good news) is that this brings the family back to Colne. The reason that I like Rough Lee is that it sounds like Rutt Lee from the 1871 Census. It looks like this was a large family. Here they are in Mill Gate, Lower Booths, Rawtenstall:

Actually, this looks like two families. I can’t make out the name of the second family. Lower Booths is to the North of Rawtenstall:

These two additional baptsims from Colne further tie this Rossendale family back to Colne:

I was despairing of finding a connection to Colne, but this appears to be the connection. From the 1841 Census, my guess is that the 28 year old Mary Hartley could be the child of Jane as she is older than John.

Was John Hartley the Son of Robert Hartley?

Assuming the ThruLines from Ancestry, John Hartley the son of Robert Hartley should have been born in 1779. This John Hartley was 45 or older at the time of 1841 Census. That means that he could have been born between and about 1792 and 1796. That means that he would not be a very good match if his age was reported accurately in the 1841 Census.

I do note that John named a potential eldest son Robert. That means that he could have been named for John’s father. Assuming that John’s father was a Robert, I come up with these potential parents for John:

Karen’s ThruLine Hints for John Hartley

The ThruLines hints for Karen and Joyce were more straightforward than the hint for Joyce and Elaine:

Here, I chose the Schofield Family Tree with 24 records on John Hartley:

Here we see Robert and Peggy as John’s parents. Here are some more details from the tree:

Of interest is that he shows John’s father Robert Hartley dying in Haslingden in 1845. Under this scenario, the Robert Hartley who was 80 in 1841 in the house of John Hartley in Rawtenstall must be his father Robert.

Here is more of the Schofield Tree:

Updating the Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealogy Tree

As I mention above, it seems possible that Elaine and Karen could be added to the Tree. I’ll put them in to see how it looks. If Elaine and Karen match each other by DNA, then that would also help to solidify the tree. Here I have added Karen:

I still hope that I can figure out who Paul is. Here is Elaine added in:

I checked at least one tree at Ancestry and it showed that Robert above born 1758 did have twins.

 

Finding Paul

I finally found Paul in this Blog from 2019. I built his tree out from a tree that only had five people in it (but two parents):

His parents were from New Bedford which is where my Hartley ancestors ended up. I found Paul in an interesting way. He was a shared DNA match betwen my father’s cousin Joyce and Kristin:

Because Paul was a shared match with Kritin and Joyce, that meant that his connection went back to 1861 or earlier. When I did the genealogy, it appeared that the connection went back to John Hartley from 1730. Another connection with Sheryl along the Susy Hartley Line of 1755 seemed to confirm the tree. Sheryl was another shared DNA match between Kristin and Joyce. As a result, I put John Hartley and Anne Bracwell into my Ancestry Tree. Fast forward more than four years later and now there are many more DNA connections with possible genealogical connections as shown in Ancestry ThruLines.

I just need to add in Kristin and Joyce, and I should be done with this Blog:

And the tree is not yet finished. I will continue in a later Blog.

Summary and Conclusions

  • In this Blog, I looked at ThruLines between my father’s cousin Joyce and Elaine and Karen
  • Both Elaine and Karen had possible links to Robert Hartley born 1758 who married Peggy Sellers. Robert appears to be the son of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • I hesitated adding Elaine to the tree as she has her own differing tree. Also I had trouble figuring out from the Ancestry evidence how Elaine was added to the ThruLines.
  • The mounting evidence seems to be that these many DNA matches support the theory that John Hartley and Ann Bracewell are my ancestors. This is good news, because going on the genealogy alone, it was too difficult to narrow down my Hartley ancestors.
  • I then reviewed match Paul who is not on the ThruLines. I had found him in 2019 and also traced his line back to Robert Hartley born 1758 and John Hartley born 1730.
  • Because Paul was a shared match between Joyce and Kristen, that meant that he was more likely to have an older Hartley connection.

 

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Hartley ThruLines Part 4

I have been having good results in my previous Blogs. In my previous Blog, I looked at ThruLines from John Hartley and Anne Bracewell through their daughter Nancy. She had 10 children, so potentially, a lot of descendants. In this Blog, I will look at more Nancy Hartley ThruLines through my father’s cousin, Joyce.

Joyce is a good choice because she is a generation earlier than me and should have twice as much Hartley DNA compared to me:

Here is the Hartley/Bracewell DNA/Genealogy Tree I have so far:

Here are Joyce’s ThruLines through Nancy Hartley:

Laura’s tree ends in Jesse Howorth:

It turns out that I already have a tree for Laura:

However, I had stopped the tree at Eliza Lee. This tree was made back in 2018 before I knew about Joyce’s ThruLines apparently.

Joyce and Laura

This line should be easy as I already mentioned Eliza in my previous Blog. She identifies her father-in-law in the 1851 Census:

I’m feeling good about Nancy’s 11 children, so I added them to my Ancestry Tree:

So here, John has Eliza who has Jesse. It appears that Laura’s tree checks out.

Adding Laura to My Hartley Tree

Laura adds another piece to the puzzle. Obviously, a lot is riding on the fact that Thomas Lee’s wife Nancy was Nancy Hartley the daughter of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.

Joyce and Robin

Here Ann Lee shows in white on Robin’s side. This is probably because I just added Ann to my tree. I get this hint in my tree for Ann:

Robin has an extensive tree which I will assume to be accurate at this point. Here is her maternal side:

I will add Robin to my Hartley/Bracewell Tree:

Unfortunately, I don’t show Joyce on this tree, but she would be in the same generation as my father. So Joyce is 5th cousin once removed to Laura and Robin.

Joyce and Shaz

All the ThruLines seem to be working out so far:

Interestingly, shaz shows to be descended from Mary who Nancy Hartley Lee had when she was almost 47 years old. Shaz’ tree stops at James Wilkinson:

If I can show that James Wilkinson was the son of Mary Lee, that may be good enough. It turns out that Mary is in the tree of my genealogy friend, Elaine:

Elaine has saved me some time in connecting Mary Lee to James Wilkinson. This connection is good enough for me:

Here the tree is getting wider, reflecting the large family that Nancy Hartley Lee had.

Summary and Conclusions

  • My father’s first cousin Joyce showed three ThruLines from the Nancy Hartley Line. These all appear to check out.
  • Evidence is mounting that we have many connections to Nancy Lee who appears to be Nancy Hartley and the daughter of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • I previously had not documented these Nancy Hartley descendants and now show 6 DNA matches between myself and my father’s cousin Joyce.
  • I will continue working on Hartley/Bracewell Thrulines in subsequent Blogs.