A Second Look at Sheryl’s Lancashire Bracewell Ancestry

Sheryl is an important DNA match at Ancestry. That is because she is a shared match with my father’s cousin Joyce.

Joyce and Kristen

Sheryl is a shared match with Joyce and Kristen and we know what their relationship is:

Joyce and Kristen are 2nd cousins twice removed. Their common ancestors are Greenwood Hartley and Ann Emmet. Greenwood was from Trawden, Lancashire and Ann was from Bacup, Lancashire. That means that Sheryl, as a shared match, probably has ancestry that connects her to Lancashire. I previously mentioned Sheryl in this Blog from 2019.

Sheryl and Joyce

This possible connection goes back three more generations and is worth studying. I know that on my side, Greenwood Hartley’s father was Robert Hartley, but before that I am unsure.

Sheryl’s Genealogy

I started a tree for Sheryl previously. Here is the part I would like to look more closely at:

John Bracewell born 1834 emmigrated from Engalnd to the US. It is often difficult to trace a person who was born in one country and moved to another one.

Here is a bio for John:

I question the part about him being from Yorkshire. I think that Lancashire could be more likely. My ancestors who lived in Colne were very close to the Yorkshire border. Also he could not have removed to Illinois in 1836 if he came to the US in 1850. Here is a record of L.M. Bracewell’s death stating that his father was born in Colne:

John Bracewell (1834-1910)

We know that John ended up in Iowa:

Here is John and family in 1885 in Iowa:

From what I can tell, John’s wife Susan was born in Tennesee. Here is John in 1900:

Here he is listed as a capitalist. He shows that he has been naturalized and that he emmigrated in the year 1850.

This transcription appears to be important:

It is likely that the informant for this record would have known about John’s parents. It is likely that the informant was John’s wife Susan.

Here is the marriage record for John’s parents:

Here is Barnoldswick:

Interestingly, the write-up says that Barnoldswick was in the historic West Riding of Yorkshire.

Here is an interesting record from 1850 in Illinois:

Here we have John’s mother Mary with three sons under the head of Hartley Bracewell and apparently his wife Margaret and son. The last piece of the puzzle would be the 1841 Census for England.

The last column is interesting as it shows that all but the father John Bracewell were born outside of Lancashire. this is the Census for Hey Mile, Foulridge, Colne.

I assume that Hey and Hey Mile are similar locations.

All the pieces fit together – even the shipping record:

John Bracewell and Mary Starkie

These two were alive during the 1841 Census. However, I assume that John died before Mary moved to the US with her children. My tree has John born in 1778. However, the 1841 Census says that John was 45 at the time. That would put his birth closer to 1796. Due to the way the Census was taken, he could have been as old as 49 in 1841 or been born as early as 1792.

It looks like John Bracewell was a popular name:

My best guess would be that John’s father was Henry Bracewell. Looking back at the 1841 Census, the eldest male child was Henry – perhaps named for John’s father. The only John, father of John was in Manchester which is out of range for where I am looking.

Here is Sheryl’s Tree:

Sheryl stops at John Bracewell and Mary Starkie. I think the couple is right. I don’t think that John was born 8 March 1778 as Sheryl has.

I’ll update my tree:

Henry Bracewell

Here is my guess for a marriage for Henry and Jane:

Henry and Jane had quite a few children – which may help account for the DNA match:

I’m curious about the Hartley Bracewell, as there was also a Hartley Bracewell at the wedding of Henry Bracewell and Jane. This name also suggests to me that I am on the right track and have the right family as there is a Hartley Bracewell in the 1850 Census for Illinois (see above).

Ancestry Common Ancestors Wrong

At this point, I believe that I have proven the Ancestry Common Ancestors to be wrong:

So am I disappointed? Not really. I would rather know the actual tree of the person that I match. That means that the tree I had from my 2019 Blog mentioned above cannot be right:

Next Steps

I can still look into Henry Bracewell. This appears to be Henry and his wife Jane in the 1841 Census:

This couple was living to quite an old age for the day. They appear to have some of their grandchildren which later went to the US. Here is Salterforth – SE of Barnoldswick:

We can get some important information from the Census. First, Henry and Janae were not born in Yorkshire. I take that to mean they were born in Lancashire. My best guess for the father of Henry Bracewell is William Bracewell.

The son of Jonathan would have been 90 or 91 in 1841, so not a good match. Henry Brasewell is born in the wrong area. Also the place name Hey has already come up in this Blog.

William Bracewell and Mary

I’ll take a shot at this couple and then I should be done with the Blog. This marriage appears to be too early:

This marriage would have been about 25 years before Henry was born, so it is possible. Another possibility is that the marriage could have taken place in Yorkshire. The records above are just from Lancashire.

Here are some children of William Bracewell in Lancahsire after 1738:

There is a lot going on here. First, I don’t know where Law or Law Township is. Blacko is to the West of Foulridge. It is difficult to tell how many families we are dealing with. The Inghamit baptisms could be from a separate family. Also the Betty family is different. She is in there, because I was looking for all children of William. The earlier baptisms tended to omit the mother’s name.

A Possible Pilling Connection?

My second great-grandparents were Greenwood Hartley and Ann Emmet. Ann Emmet was from Bacup. I have not seen in Sheryl’s genealogy anyone in the Bacup area. That leaves the Trawden area. The two main lines from the Colne area are Hartley and Pilling.

My understanding is that Sarah Pilling above was likely a single mother. That means that we would not know the true father of Greenwood Pilling. That is one possibility for a connection between Joyce and Sheryl. Shackleton is also a possible connection. I am not sure of the Baldwin connection above. Also I don’t have a last name for the mother of Nancy Shackleton.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I have proved that the connection to Hartley at Ancestry is based on a genealogy that is not correct
  • I was able to create a much better geenalogy for Sheryl going back to the 1700’s
  • I have not shown where the connection is. However, the connection seems to be from the Colne area. That means that the connection is somewhere on the ancestors of Hartley or Pilling
  • More work is needed to look into these proposed connections and genealogies at Ancestry and elsewhere.
  • Once we have enough good trees, we should be able to triangulate either a genealogy or place where our common ancestors lived.

 

 

 

 

 

Frazer Relative Richard at MyHeritage

A match recently showed up for me with Richard. I have been in touch with Richard before who is a match to me at AncestryDNA also:

Here is my match with Richard at MyHeritage:

I have written other Blogs about Richard. Here is one where I mention two other Blogs. Richard’s genealogy and  DNA match give evidence of our common descent from Phillip Frazer as shown in the image above.

 Richard and DNAPainter

I have not added Richard to my DNAPainter profile. Here is Richard added to my Chromosome 7:

The match is small and does not show up at Gedmatch where Richard also has his DNA results. However, the matches are those that I have as being from the Philip Frazer Line.

Here is my match with Richard on Chromosome 17:

Here Rihard overlaps with his brother Barry and also with Michael whose ancestry goes back to Richard Frazer. It is possible that the connection could be from the father of Richard and Philip who was Archibald Frazer.

My Philip Line DNA/Genealogy Tree

Here is part of the tree as I have it:

Richard and Barry are in the green area. I cut off much of my own line. Due to intermarriage and some missing wives’ names, it can be difficult to trace the DNA. For example, my ancestor James Frazer married his cousin Violet Frazer who was the daughter of Richard Frazer, the brother of Philip Frazer. Also I have no wives’ names for Philip or Richard.

My Sister Lori and Barry

My sister Lori has a good match with Richard’s brother Barry:

Here are Lori and Barry’s shared matches at AncestryDNA:

A blue dot means I probably have not looked at these matches.

This is how Lori and Barry match at Gedmatch:

Here is Barry added to Lori’s DNAPainter Profile:

 

Some Philip Frazer Genealogy

The genealogy goes back to the 1700’s and is a bit unclear. I have this 1950’s genealogy:

I clearly descend from James and Violet Frazer. Violet was a daughter of Richard Frazer. The above genealogy has Philip and George as the sons of Philip. My best guess is that James was a third son of Philip.

Here is the Tithe Applotment for Derrycastle (or Derrycashel):

Here we have listed George, Philip and James Frazer. My theory is that these three were sons of Philip Frazer. They may or may not be listed in their birth order. Ancestry gives the date of this record as 1833, but I am not sure of the actual date of the record.

Here is what I have at my web page:

Philip was a farmer probably in Derrycashel. He had three sons. The birth order is probably backwards above. He was born probably between 1751 and 1776. By the Tithe Applotment around 1833, he had probably passed away but his three children were still living in the area. As we have no further information about George other than a death date, he may have not married or if he did may not have had children.

I know that my 3rd great-grandfather James Frazer lived in this house in Derrycashel:

Perhaps his father Philip also lived there. George died in 1831. That means that the Tithe Applotment was before that time or that the Applotment listed the land as being still under George’s name. My 2nd great-grandfather George Wiliiam Frazer may have been named after this George.

Philip. Son of Philip and the 1830 Freeholder’s List

Joanna, a Frazer researcher living in Scotland has this document on her Frazer Tree at Ancestry:

This is an extract from the Roscommon Leitrim Gazette from September 1830 listing a Philip Frazer as a freeholder in Smutterna and Aughrefinnegan. This is interesting as it was unusual for people to own land during this time.

Here is Smutternaugh:

Smutternaugh is a few townlands away from Derrycashel.

Here is what I have on my old web page on the Frazers:

I believe that Anne was another daughter born to Philip in 1833.  These children appear to have been baptized in Kilmactranny Parish. This is in Sligo County. The Kilmactranny records have missiong information which would account for why there is no record for Anne Frazer.

I am trying to think of a scenario that would have Philip being a freeholder in Smutternaugh and also being a farmer in Derrycashel. One possibility would be that it was Philip the father who owned the land in Smutternaugh and the children lived in Derrycashel. The question would be: why did the land not go to the children?

More on Freeholders

I wrote to Frazer researcher Joanna and she was able to give additional insight to the Freeholder’s List. I think that Joanna was quoting here from an article:

“If your ancestor was a substantial small farmer or merchant, he was likely to have been a freeholder, especially if your ancestral farm or property holding (albeit rented) dates back to pre-famine times.

If your ancestor was a tenant he may have been a freeholder depending on the type of lease he had with his landlord.  

    • A freehold lease could be for one or more “lives” – his own life or for the lives of other people named in the lease. A lease of “3 lives” was a common type of lease, especially in the 1700s. It lasted for as long as the 3 people named in it remained alive. Generally, the others named on the lease were sons, sons-in-law, or “partners” (in-laws) sharing the land collectively. 

If your ancestor was part of a collective or shared interest in a farm of

land that was a freehold worth a mere 40 shillings (£2) per annum above the rent, he could appear on freeholders lists for the period from 1796 to 1829 (when both Catholic and Protestant “40 shilling freeholders” qualified to vote).”

This was new information to me. I had thought that being a leaseholder and a freeholder were mutually exclusive. Now I see that is not the case.

Who Were the Three Smutternagh Frazers in the Freeholder’s List?

Joanna feels that the three Frazers listed in the Freehold list were related to each other and I agree with this.

PHILIP FRAZER

He is listed first. I do not know if this is significant. Joanna notes:

I have collected a few of these newspaper Freeholders lists and various petitions to Viscount Lorton,  and found that in 1843 Alexander and Edward L Frazer are living at Smutternagh. 

From this I take it that Philip was no longer living in Smtternagh. So if I have the genealogy right and the right Philip, this suggests that my ancestor could have been Philip of Smutternaugh. Smutternagh is an odd-sounding Townland. Here is a photo found on-line of Smutternagh:

My assumption is that the Philip in the Freeholder’s List is the son of Philip and brother of George and my ancestor James Frazer. It also appears that some time soon after 1830, Philip moved from Smutternagh to Derrycashel. This does not answer all the questions. Smutternagh would have been in Kilbryan Parish. Yet the baptisms for Philip’s children are recorded in the Kilmactranny Church in Sligo County. Perhaps Philip’s wife was from Kilmactranny.

One confusing thing about Philip is that I have two marriages for Philip:

Here I assume that the notation son of Phiip is an interpretation. However, from the above information, I assume that the elder Phiip remarried to Jane Johnston of Kilmactranny or that Philip, son of Philip married twice. The second record is a birth record, but presumes that Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor were married prior to the birth of Philip. However, at the time of the Tithe Applotment, I believe that there is only one Philip listed. This must have been Philip Junior.

ALEXANDER AND EDWARD FRAZER

Joanna writes:

Alexander could probably be Alexander Stinson Frazer, but Edward L Frazer cannot be his son Edward Lillie Frazer (not born until 1854) 

Here is my guess for Alexander and Edward:

At the top is Archibald Frazer who married Mary Lillie (or Lilly). I have Philip as son of Philip and brother of my ancestor James Frazer. I have Alexander Frazer bottom right of the image above. Then I have Edward as the brother of Alexander Frazer. That would be my best guess at this time. The freeholders in the list were probably two brothers and one cousin (Philip). It would seem to make more sense if these three Freeholders were all brothers, however, that does not seem to be the case.

I also note that these three likely Freeholders were likely around the same age. Alexander would have only been 24 in 1830, so quite young. Edward would have been 27. Philip would have been older as he had at least three children by 1830. If it was his father who married in 1818 and Philip Junior who married Mary Taylor and had a child Philip in 1825, then he could have been born around 1800. If it was Philip Junior who married Jane Johnston in 1818, he would have been born in the late 1700’s.

My notes for Edward say that he moved to the USA, but I don’t remember where I got that information. Perhaps the Edward Lillie born in 1854 was named for Alexander Stinson Frazer’s brother Edward L who moved away.

ARCHIBALD FRAZER

I left out Archibald Frazer from the 1830 Freeholder’s List. Joanna notes that Archibald is not mentioned in an 1843 Freeholder’s list for Smtternagh, but now Edward L Frazer is listed. Let’s go back to the tree:

Here there are two options. First the Archibald could be the one at the top. I note that his birth date cannot be correct as he would have been 12 at the birth of William. I’ll need to correct that. My second guess is that Archibald may have had a son born before William Frazer. This could have been another Archibald. The Father of the Archibald who married Ann Stinson was also Archibald. One tradition would be to name your first son after your father. Perhaps this first son Archibald passed away or otherwise left the scene between 1830 and 1843 and the land went to his brother Edward L.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Richard’s posting of his DNA results at MyHeritage was helpful
  • One match with Richard and Michael on Chromosome 17 appear to go back to Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly from around 1743
  • A helpful document from that Joanna had indicated that one of my ancestors Philip Frazer may have lived in Smutteragh near Lough Key. This pushes back the likely location of my Frazer family by one generation
  • My guess is that the three Freeholders listed in an 1830 Newspaper were Alexander and Archibald sons of Archibald Frazer and Stinson and Philip Frazer, son of Philip Frazer Senior – my ancestor.
  •  One technique I use in my research is to try to tell a story based on what the facts appear to be saying. If the story makes sense, perhaps I have interpreted the facts correctly.
  • I could further theorize that the Archibald who married Mary Lilly had land holdings or a lease for 3 generations. These three generations could have gone down to three of his granchildren: Philip, Alexander and Archibald. Archibald could have passed away and the land went to Edward L Frazer.
  • This 1830 Frazer Freeholder List could use further analysis in the future.

 

 

 

More Latvian Theories of Relativity at MyHeritage: Two Levas

MyHeritage is a good place to check for some of my Latvian relatives. Here is what MyHeritage has for Leva:

Leva is a DNA match to me. She shows as a 5th cousin to me also. I think the connection shown is wrong, but that we are connected on the Rathfelder line somewhere. Here is the DNA/Genealogy chart I already have:

It already has a Georg Ludwig Rathfelder in it. Leva must be related to me on that line along with Katja.

Leva’s Theory 2

Theory 2 at MyHeritage appears to be the right one:

Due to the fact that I have already a tree to Gerog Ludwig Rathfelder, this connection looks very likely. Here is the tree I built previously for Katja:

It looks like I had trouble finding a wife for Johannes Rathfelder in the tree.

Here is the birth record for Karoline Adodphine Rathfelder:

Here is the family list with Caroline’s family:

In my tree, Leva shows as 5th cousin once removed:

My tree is different than the MyHeritage Tree:

I have Johann Adam Rathfelder. He isn’t in the MyHeritage Theory of Relativity. I like my tree better.

Leva’s DNA Match

Leva and I share two segments of DNA with each other:

Unfortunately, the segment shared on Chromosome 16 is less than 7 cM. The default cutoff for DNAPainter is 7 cM. I think that the segment on Chromosome 16 is valid, but I will leave it out to be consistant with other matches.

Here is Leva added onto DNAPainter:

Even though the match is small, it changed my Maternal mapped DNA from 47% to 48%. Here is how the match fits in overall with my pateranal and maternal DNA matches:

My match with Leva is there, but gets lost among the many other matches. Overall, 53% of my DNA is mapped by identified matches.

One odd aspect of this match is that my mother does not match Leva. That means that my mother should have had a match and didn’t or I had a match and shouldn’t have.

A Second Leva and My Sister Heidi

My sister has a Theory of Relativity with Leva from Latvia. I mentioned her in a Blog in 2021. Myheritage shows that Heidi has a new Theory with Leva. Perhaps the new one is one of the three Theories. This is the first of three Theories:

Leva’s tree is private, so I will try to build out her tree based on her Theories. I also believe that Leva’s grandfather may be Raimonds who I have written about here. However, he tested at 23andMe, so his results only apply to me. Leva matches my sister and my mother. For some reason, the Theories only appear under my sister Heidi.

I’ll compare Leva’s Theories with what I had on Raimonds

Leva

  • Theory 1: Johann Jacob Gangnus 1777/Anna Elisabeth Juliana Biedermann
  • Theory 2: this is the same, but apparently the pathway is different
  • Theory 3: Friedrick Jacob Wilhelm Lutke 1804/Eva Christina Margaretha Fuhrmann

Raimonds

  • Friedrich Lutke 1804/Eva Fuhrmann
  • Johann Jacob Gangnus 1777/Biedermann
  • Johann Georg Gangnus 1704/Anna Margaretha Clausing

The last connection under Raimonds is due to the fact that I have Gangnus on two family branches:

Here I also did not add Raimonds which I should have.

Evaluating Leva’s Lutke Connection

Here is where I have Raimonds:

Leva is two levels below Raimonds.

This agrees with the Third Theory at MyHeritage.

Leva’s Gangnus Connection

I found this record for Emma Eugenie Charlotte Lutke:

She was confirmed in 1928. Her parents are listed as Johann and Antonie Shiller. Here is more information from the Personal Register:

Raimonds are added in at the next to the last column. I have painted this match to my sister Heidi. I will paint the match to my mother.

Painting My Mother’s Match with Leva

Fortunately, I already had a yellowish category for a match where I was unsure whether it was on the Lutke or Gangnus Line. This got my mother’s painted paternal DNA from 44% to 45%.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Leva appears to be a popular name in Latvia as my family has Theories of Relativity with two Levas
  • Both Levas add to the genealogical story from Hirschenhof, Latvia
  • Both Levas fill in missing DNA information for my family.
  • The second Leva is equally related to my family on two lines

 

 

 

 

 

Two New Theories for My Mom at MyHeritage

MyHeritage recently came out with new Theories of Relativity. I’ll check out a few for my Mom.

Rita with Latvian Heritage

Here is the Theory:

I only see a partial tree for Rita:

The Theory follows the Spengel Line. I’ll just look at the Theory. The theory doesn’t check out according to my tree. In order for it to work, Sophia would have had to have married a Spengel after a Schwechheimer. However, my genealogy does not show that. I’ll pass on this Theory for now.

Mom and Malcolm

Malcolm is from the United Kingdom. Here is his tree:

The Theory connects Malcolm and my mother on his maternal side. The tree confusingly has a Gadd as the father as a Dodsworth. I will need to build my own tree at Ancestry to verify:

In 1891, Louisa was living with her widowed mather Emily in Nether Hallam, Sheffield, England. It appears that Louisa could have been from a second husband of Emily as the first two daughters on the Census have the surname of Green.

Next I need to make the connection from Lockwood to Dodworth. Two of the three trees at Ancestry have Emily Lockwook as the mosther of Louisa Dodwood:

The third tree does not give parents. I will make the assumption that Malcolm knew who his grandmother was.

Here is Emily Lockwood in the 1881 Census:

She was an unmarried file cutter living in Nether Hallam, Sheffied. There also was an Ellis family living next door. I was able to find a little more information at FamilySearch:

Here is St George:

So, I have a sort of a connection now.

My DNA/Genealogy Tree for Ellis

I have a short Ellis tree already:

After a little searching, I see that Derek is a match to my mom at AncestryDNA. . I’ll add in Emma’s Line.

That makes Malcolm a third cousin to my mother. It looks as if Emma Ellis Tattershall could have been named for her Aunt Emma who was 7 years older than her? I think I see a mistake in that Emma Ellis should not have a Tatershall in her name.

Adding the DNA Match to My Mother’s Profile

Here is where Malcolm and my mom match:

Here I have ‘painted’ Malcolms matches to my mom in orange:

These matches are in places where there were no previous matches. This is also the first maternal match my mother has on Chromosome 21.

Malcolm and my mom also have shared DNA matches with at least three other known Nicholson/Ellis descendants at MyHeritage.

When I show all my mother’s paternal and maternal DNA matches, the orange DNA from Ellis/Roebuck gets a bit lost:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I didn’t follow through on the match with Rita. However, the fact that she has Latvian genealogy means that there must be a match somewhere.
  • Often, the conclusions for the more obscure Theories of Relativity are wrong and need correcting
  • In this case, the Theory lead me in the right direction toward Ellis/Roebuck DNA
  • I was glad to add this DNA to my mother’s DNA profile

 

 

New Theories of Relativity at MyHeritage with Latvian Heritage

I noticed that MyHeritage has some new Theories of Relativity. Here is one that I don’t recall from before:

If this relationship is right, Jan would be my 1/2 fourth cousin once removed. The first and second line agree with the tree that I have which shows that Jacob Gagnus had two wives and these two children of these two wives:

That is a lot of children.

Jan’s tree goes up to August Schmidt:

The 1941 is wrong. I think that 1841 was meant.

Some Problems with MyHeritage’s Theory

The first is that I should not match by DNA on Chromosome 20. Here is where we show that we match:

I have mapped my maternal Chromosome 20:

This shows my entire Chromosome 20 should be on the Lentz side. The Theory is showing the match on my Rathfelder side. DNA Painter shows actual Lentz side relative matches where I match Jan also. My assumption is that the match goes back somehow on my mother’s German Lentz side.

Jan shows that August Schmidt was from Ruckershausen, Germany which is quite a distance from Latvia:

A Latvian Theory with Sane

Sane seems more promising:

However, I don’t agree with the tree. As far as I know, I don’t have any Stumpf ancestors.

Making My Own Sane Tree

Here is a record of Sane’s grandfather Hugo from Jesus Church:

The next to the last column indicates that his mother was Anna Charlotte Muller.

Here is the Schwechheimer line that Sane has:

I note that I have George Gerhard in one of my trees:

This tree makes more sense than MyHeritage’s Theory Tree.  Note that in this tree, I am doubly related to Otis who tested at AncestryDNA. I tried my best to describe Otis’ tree in this Blog.

At this point, I am tempted to add Sane to this tree on the right hand side under Johann Georg Schwechheimer. Here is the tree I built for Otis:

Here is where I have Sane:

I would not be surprised if we are related on other lines. The Schwechheimer family was large, so it was not uncommon for a Schwechheimer to marry a Schwechheimer as noted in Sane’s tree.

Sane’s DNA Match

Sane and I share DNA on two chromosomes:

He is what I have mapped so far on my maternal side:

My matches with Sane appear to fall in the orange area which is my mother’s father’s side.

Other DNA Matches with Sane in My Family

For some reason, I don’t see that my mother has a match with Sane which is strange. Only one of my five siblings has a match with Sane. Still, I will assume that my match is correct. My brother Jim shows triangulation with other Latvians which indicates that the DNA match is real:

Normunds is a second cousin – related on bother the Rathfelder and Gangnus sides.

At DNA Painter, I gave my match with Sane a dark green color so it would show up well:

I assume these matches are correct. However, the DNA would go back to 1723 which is quite old. There are possibly closer connections which I have not found yet. Sane’s match indicates that the matches I have with the people in the orange above her matches match me on the Rathfelder rather than the Gangnus side. That is because this Scwheccheimer match is on my Rathfelder side:

Ancestry shows possible parents for Johann Markus Schweccheimer in Germany, but I have not followed up on them. Here is where I have Johann Markus born:

The place is called Altlußheim bei Hockenheim Kraichgau Baden. It is on the Rhine River in Germany.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I looked at two of my new Theories of Relativity at MyHeritage
  • One was not correct and one was correct
  • The match that was correct went back to 1723. That seems to be about the limit of what I would expect for an identifiable match
  • The match was from Hirschenhof, Latvia. This was a German colony where many of the families intermarried with each other
  • I may have other connections with Sane, but went with this early Swchweccheimer match
  • I also mapped the match using DNAPainter
  • It could take a while to check out all the new Theories at MyHeritage

 

Does My Mom Connect with Nicholson Through a DNA Match with Thelma?

This is a long title. Some of the experts may say that it would be impossible to answer the question in the title of this Blog. However, my mom matches Thelma and the computers at Ancestry have made a connection to Nicholson thusly:

Thelma appears to be having a toast. Cheers, Thelma!

Thelm shows as a half 5th cousin. I believe that is only because I have not identified Elizabeth Nicholson as a child of John and Hephzibah:

However, if Elizabeth was born in 1758, she would fit into the family time-wise.

Thelma’s tree shows that her father was from Sheffield:

My mom and Thelma do not show any shared DNA matches. This would make sense as my mom and Thelma share 14 cM. Shared matches must be 20 cM or more.

Thelma’s Genealogy

Thelma shows no Nicholsons in her genealogy. However, her tree at Ancestry does not go back that far. Here is Lawrence with his parents in 1939:

Mark Parker

I’ll move on quickly to Mark Parker. Mark was quite young in 1891:

The previous page of the Census reveals his parents:

Henry was a ‘bon scale cutter’. However, now we want to follow his wife Emily. Ancestry gives this hint:

This matches what Thelma has in her tree. Though not shown above, when I click on the link for Emily Wallace, it shows her father as Mark Wallace.

Mark Wallace

This appears to be Mark Wallace in the 1841 Census for Sheffield:

It appears that his father had passed away. However, according to Thelma’s tree and Ancestry, we want to follow Mark’s mother Elizabeth next. She would have been born in the 1700’s. This appears to be Mark’s baptismal record from the Sheffeildindexers website:

Next, it would be nice to find a marriage record for James Wallace and Elizabeth. I did not see a marriage record at the Sheffieldindexers site. I took the hint that Ancestry had for Elizabeth as Elizabeth Davenport.

I see an Elizabeth Davenport in the Sheffield Indexers:

However, this Elizabeth is a generation too late. The 1861 Census indicates that Elizabeth was born in Sheffield:

Here is a hint for Elizabeth’s birth:

Elizabeth Davenport is already past Thelma’s tree.

Is Thomas Davenport’s wife Elizabeth Nicholson?

I suppose I am not really given certain proof, but just showing probably cause in this Blog. I just realized I was looking in Baptisms in the Sheffield Indexer, when I should have been looking for Marriages. Unfortunately, I could find neither Thomas Davenport nor Elizabeth Nicholson in the 1700’s period I am looking for. Here is where Ancestry gets the original matchup:

This is from one reference. The daughter Elizabeth matches up well with birth and death dates of 1786-1862. The reference in the Shaw Family tree is this:

Does this imply that this was Elizabeth’s second marriage? The Shaw tree refers to another tree owned by Deborah. Deborah matches my mother also by 11 cM, but the connection is shown differently:

This further confuses the issue:

  • If Thelma and Deborah match each other, then the above connection could be wrong and my mom may match both Deborah and Thelma through Sheffield
  • Thelma and Deborah may not match each other
  • Both genealogical connection could be right.
  • One connection may be right and the other wrong.

Based on the genealogy I know right now, I would guess that the Deborah connection back to Lentz may be right. However, I don’t see clear evidence that Thelma’s genealogy goes back to Nicholson unless I am missing something.

Summar and Conclusions

  • These connections from Ancestry are worth pursuing
  • Thelma’s genealogy in Sheffield seemed right but the clues dried up at Elizabeth Nicholson
  • I did not look at all of Thelma’s lines, so there may be a connection on another Sheffield Line.

 

 

A Deeper Dive into the Review of A11134 Using BAMsAway

My Haplogroup is A11134. I share that group with 7 people of Hartley Surname (though one changed his name to Hartley, partly as a result of the testing). An 8th BigY tester in the A11134 group has Nutter heritage. His is the most recent results. Here is where Nutter is under A11134 in the lower right below. This shows he shares A11134 with two other Hartleys

My previous analysis of Nutter’s results and other Hartley results has left me with some questions that I would like to look into further. Previously, I had been working on this list of Variants:

BAMsAway

This is a Chrome Browser extension that looks into positions on the YDNA BigY test that FTDNA may not provide information on. Recently, I was looking at Nutter’s Private Variant with Position number 5672076. It appeared from my download that FTDNA had not tested that location for me. However, using BAMsAway, I see this for that position looking at my results:

This shows that clearly I was negative at this position. While I’m at it, I’ll check all my Variants that I previously thought were not covered by my test:

I’m not so concerned about the last three testers, as I know more about their genealogy back to the 1600’s. However, the first two positions that I checked were clearly negative, so that is a good sign.

6906758

This position is interesting as Nutter showed that this was one of his Private Variants at YFull based on his non-FTDNA testing. I show negative for the Variant:

Here is what Nutter’s results show:

I am not sure why Nutter’s results did not show this as a Private Variant at FTDNA. This may be something to look into further.

BAMsAway ‘No Reads Found’ at 13807922

Here is the first Variant that I looked up with no reads found:

Here is how the Browser displays:

However, the position number does not show. I suppose this would make sense if there were no reads. I showed this result in blue on my spreadsheet:

 

I had previously shown this as not tested and ‘no reads found’ is the same thing. This is the first BAMsAway result that confirms what I thought to be the case previously. Here is what Nutter shows at that position:

Here there were only 2 good reads. Many assume that 10 good reads are needed by FTDNA, so this Position has some logic to not being a Private Variant for Nutter.

My Results Adjusted by BAMsAway

Out of 10 positions I showed Not Tested, 8 of those were tested and found negative. 2 of those positions were actually no reads (or not tested). Those two Positions corresponded with Nutter’s Private Variants at YFull which were not considered Private Variants by FTDNA. When I check Nutter’s Position 19374424, I see that there were no reads at FTDNA:

I am thankful to David Vance at the L513 Facebook Page who steered me to BAMsAway.

Updating My Brother’s Results

My guess is that my brother’s BigY BAMsAway results should be similar to mine. After some copying and pasting into BAMsAway, I get these results for Jim:

For Position #13669903, BAMsAway confirms that Jim only had one read (but that was a negative for the Variant).

Updating Steve’s Results

FTDNA shows that Steve has 5 Private Variants:

The arrow points to the BAMsAway extension for the FTDNA Chromosome Browser. When I choose the extension a popup asks me to add the new SNP name or position:

When I do that, a new position is added to Steve’s list of Private Variants:

I choose the user added position to get this:

This shows that Steve is clearly negative for this Variant. He has no mutation from ‘T’. Here are Steve’s results:

This gives clarity to show that Steve is negative for other A11134 testers’ Private Variants. He gets a No Read for 19374424. This is apparently in a difficult to read portion of the Y Chromosome.

John N’s Results

So far, my chart is shaping up well. John has four Private Variants.

I gave John N a questionable for 13807922 as he had only 4 reads. However, they were all negative. I would say negative. John N also has no reads for 19374424.

Summary of Steve, John N and Nutter

These are the three who tested postive for A11134, but did not form a branch below that level. My major question is why Nutter does not have a Private Variant at 6906758. I will likely write to FTDNA to ask why. I had previously checked Nutter’s results to make sure that he was negative for the 7 SNPs in my Haplogroup. Those are the 7 SNPs at the end of the list above.

Michael, Lawrence and John R

These three BigY testers are in a separate genealogical group that I call the Quaker Line of Hartleys. The ancestor of this group escaped persecution in Lancashire, England and came to Quaker-friendly Pennsylvania around the year 1700. The genealogy of this group can be traced to some time in the 1600’s.

Because I had added NTs or Not Tested to their list based on their incomplete downloadable files, I would like to correct that information using the BAMsAway extension. That will corrrect my comparison chart of Private Variants.

Lawrence and Position 7153793

One of the first interesting results is for Lawrence in position 7153793:

Lawrence has three positive reads for this position. I could argue that this result should form a new branch of ‘Quaker’ Hartleys. YBrowse has two SNPs for this position, but the first is a G to C mutation where Lawrence has a G to A mutation:

The second SNP is listed twice for some reason, but has the G to A mutation:

My feeling is that Lawrence should be in a new Branch called MF205420. This is also consistant with the genealogy:

John and Lawrence share a branch. However, Michael would have to be negative for this Variant for this to be a true Branch separate from John and Lawrence. Michael had an older test:

His test did not cover that position. That means that it is not clear whether MF205420 would apply to all three testers or just two. So this is a case where there should be an extra SNP, but it is not clear where it belongs.

Here is the end of what I looked up for Lawrence:

I indicated in the notes that Lawrence had 3 positive reads. For 13807922, Lawrence had 2 negative reads which would be expected.

John R’s BAMsAway Results

I have five more NTs to get rid of. There were no surprises with this recent BigY test:

This is what I have so far. It was interesting to look at the results. You don’t know whwat you will find until you look. It would be interesting (but take a little work) to fill in the rest of the blanks.

More on Lawrence

Larwence has 6 Private Variants:

Here I filled in the rest of Lawrence’s blanks including the SNPs from my branch of Hartleys:

 

 

Quaker Line Michael

Michael took the older BigY500 test. I had missed one of his Private Variants last time, so I will add that in:

Michael may find more Private Variants if he updates to BigY700.

Michael had 2 negative reads for one of Lawrence’s Private Variants. He also had no reads for two of my Branch’s newer SNPs which makes sense.

John R’s Results Completes the Quaker Hartley Analysis

  • Here we see the difference between Michael’s BigY500 test and Lawrence and John R’s BigY700 test. Michael has many more ‘no reads’.
  • Where there is more than one B? in a row, my note at the end is ambiguous
  • I probably should have had different colors for the B? designation depending on whether the low read was positive or negative.
  • Some results are more important than others. For example, the results within the Hartley Quaker Group is more important than comparing the Hartley Quaker Group with the non-Quaker Group as we know that those two are not closely related by genealogy.

Filling In Nutter

I did see one unexpected result here:

Nutter had 7 positive reads for a Private Variant that John R in the Hartley Quaker Group had. I made the notation withing the cell and added that the mutation was G to A. Here is what John R shows:

That means that it looks like John R’s Private Variant is not really Private. That is why it pays to look at each of these positions.

MF205420

This Position describes MF205420 which I mentioned above. Apparently, this could be another Hartley-wide Variant. Now I want to see the results for the other Hartley BigY testers. Here it looks like I have found a new Hartley SNP:

However, to be sure, I need to go upstream one level to Mawdsley:

He has 9 negative reads for this position. What that means is that John R’s Private Variant of 7153793 should actually be SNP MF205420 in the A11134 Hartley Group:

Here I have pointed to where MF205420 should be added. Here John R had at least 10 reads, so the 10 read rule came into play:

I just need to convince FTDNA to add MF205420 to the Hartley Group. MF is apparently the designation for a Chinese Company. So far, it has paid off to look at all these positions.

Filling in John N’s Blanks

I don’t see any surprises here:

Filling in Steve’s Blanks

No surprises here.

Joel and Jim

Any difference between these two brothers should be from testing coverage.

It doesn’t look like a lot, but it took a while to get all this information. The two recommendations are noted in yellow in the Note Column. The yellow BY is the same as the Y for the last 7 SNPs in the list. The BNR is equivalent to what I thought I was getting in my previous list where I had NT for Not Tested.

 

Summary and Conclusions

  • I had tried to do an analysis of A11134 BigY testers using downloadable files. However, the results were confusing and I found out that these files are not complete.
  • I used BAMsAway and found the complete picture
  • From my analysis, Nutter needs one more Private Variant than he has.
  • Also, the A1134 should have one more SNP in it’s group for a total of three SNPs. The new SNP would be MF205420. That SNP is now a Private SNP that John R has from the Quaker Hartley group. However, 5 other testers who had reads all had positive reads for that SNP (though below what FTDNA usually finds adequate).

 

 

My Largest Unidentified Match at FTDNA

Here is my largest unidentified match at FTDNA:

The surname is Beaudet, which is probably not relevant. The shared DNA is 92 cM which is important. The match is challenging as no ancestral surnames are given and there is no family tree. He is listed between a known 2nd cousin once removed and a known 2nd cousin. I had written to him before but got no response. However, at that time, I mentioned that he was related to me on my Hartley side. The blue icon by his name indicates paternal or Hartley side also. While that may be true, that might have thrown him of as I should be able to figure out a closer connection.

My DNA Match with Beaudet

Our match leaves a fingerprint which I can track down:

I have mapped out many of my known matches on DNAPainter. Here is my paternal side which is where I match Beaudet:

My match with Beaudet on Chromosome 2 is in the same area as my match with my father’s cousin Maury:

Perhaps I was not wrong in my previous estimation. All matches seem to lead to a Hartley background.

The Genealogy Route

After going through many ‘papers’ online that my cousin worked on, I found Benjamin. Maury’s daughter married a Beaudet. That is where the connection comes in. Here, I added Beaudet:

Usually, I enter the first name, but I had already identified the match name in the Blog by the surname. The Gifford family is a large branch of the Hartley family. Beaudet would be my second cousin once removed. Mystery solved.

I was also able to link Beaudet to my tree at Ancestry showing his DNA match:

I assume that the blue dot by his name indicates the DNA match. Now, when I see the match at FTDNA, the correct relationship shows up:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was baffled by a Beaudet match at FTDNA
  • DNAPainter pointed to the match being from my Hartley ancestry and more specifically probably related to my father’s cousin Maury
  • Sleuthing through genealogical papers provided by my 2nd cousin Beth helped me find the match.
  • FTDNA provides a way to link the match to my tree at FTDNA and I did that also

 

 

 

A New A11134 BigY Test Results: Nutter

The long awaited Nutter BigY test results came in. As expected by previous testing, he is A1134. The tester’s name is not Nutter but changed along the way at some point. I will call the tester Nutter or Michael for privacy reasons. Here is my list of BigY Matches:

After my brother, the new tester, Michael, is my next match. This may or may not be significant. the listing is based on the number of Non-Matching Variants. I have fewer Non-Matching Variants with Michael (other than with my brother) than with other BigY testers. I will be looking at Variants in greater detail later in this Blog.

I and my brother are fifth and sixth on Michael’s match list. The first 7 testers on the list are Hartleys (other than Michael). After that, there are other surnames. This indicates to me that Michael’s ancestors were likely Hartleys at some point in history. Tester #8 on the list Mawdsley and those after likely have a common ancestor before the time of surnames. Also Mawdsley and others have an earlier Haplogroup than the first 7 testers.

Michael in the Block Tree

One way that FTDNA shows test results is in a Block Tree. Here is the Block Tree from Michael’s viewpoint:

The part that says ‘Your Branch’ actually has three people in it: Nutter plus two of his Hartley matches.

I didn’t show that part of the Block Tree that has Mawdsley. He is further to the right under A11132. This shows that:

  • Michael is the only Nutter under A11134
  • My branch of FT225247 on the left has 7 variants under A11134
  • There are 4 variants under A16717
  • Under Michael’s branch there are 3 Private Variants on average
  • The people in the bottom block represent now. That means the time back to the A11134 should be about the same for each of the three branches above.

Michael’s Private Variants

Why are these important? These represent Michael’s Line since the common ancestor of the A11134 group that he is in. Above, note that those in Michael’s group have an average of 3 Private Variants. However, right now, Michael’s results show that he has two Private Variants.

These two Private Variants show as numbers which are position numbers on the YDNA. So far, no one in the world has tested positive for these two positions. Once a match is found to one of these two Positions, they will form a new branch of mankind. This would be a branch that is likely in common with the Nutter name.

Position 15646418

This position is already in YBrowse. That is probably from when Michael tested with another company.

That SNP is named Y354187. The Y designation is from YFull.

YFull gave this SNP a name when Michael uploaded his results there last year.

5672076

I suspect the same is true for 5672076. This SNP is called Y354148:

Comparing Michaels Results with Other A11134 Testers

This part may get a bit boring, but it is necessary. There is only one way to match with another tester. However, there are different ways to not match:

  • One tests postive and one test negative for a SNP
  • One test positive and another’s test does not cover that SNP
  • One tests negative and another’s test does not cover that SNP

Then there are incomplete test results which further complicate matter. Usually there need to be about 10 reads to have a good test result. If there are less than 10 reads or some reads are positive and some are negative, you get into a grey area.

Here is what I have so far in comparing Private Variants:

This shows who tested for what:

  • Y means positive
  • N means negative
  • NT means the test did not cover that position
  • ? means inconclusive

Above, Joel and Jim are A11134 > FT225247; Steve, John N. and Nutter are A11134 and Michael, Lawrence and John R. are A11134 > A16717. I am not sure what the blanks mean.

Here I’ve added a column for Nutter’s FTDNA results as the previous column was for his other test. I was already tracking SNPs Y354148 and Y354187 which I mentioned above. I would also like to add the SNPs in my branch as there are so many.

Here I have shown that Nutter has none of the 7 SNPs in the branch of Hartleys that my brother and I share. Next I went through the Private Variants of the other BigY Testers and checked to see if Michael tested positive for any of those Private Variants:

This shows that Nutter did not test positive for any of the other testers’ Private Variants. For example here is Nutter’s results for 11071280 which was one of Steve’s Private Variants:

Because Nutter’s Genotype is the same as the Reference, that means that Nutter is ancestral or not positive for that Variant. It is confusing, because these results were found in a download called Derived Variants (which is the opposite of Ancestral Variants).

What this means is that no new branches should be formed based on Private Variants. If my analysis was correct above, it also indicates that none of the other 7 Hartley tests covered the Nutter Private Variants. Nutter should have on average 4 Private Variants, so the two that he has are probably right. That means that the Nutter line had mutations about twice as slowly as the average. On the other hand, my Harltey Branch had 7 mutations during the same time period with mutations about as twice as fast as average.

A11134 Time Tree

Nutter is not yet on the FTDNA Time Tree. That Tree estimates that A11134 formed around the year 1450:

Hartley Branches under that formed at a later date. For example, FTDNA says that A16717 formed around 1650:

This date follows closely the genealogy of this branch:

These are the YDNA testers under A16717.

 

It would stand to reason, that other Hartley Branches formed around the same time as A16717 in the 1600s:

I drew an arrow to FT225127 where my brother and I and two other Hartley Lines are. The Nutter Line will be added in that same area.

Summary and Conclusions

  • The new Nutter BigY test shows that he is in the A11134 Branch, a Branch formerly held only by Hartleys
  • Nutter has two Private Variants which defines his own private line
  • Nutter forms a fifth branch under A11134. However, three of these branches are not named yet and won’t be named until they get matches withing those branches
  • My guess is that these branches formed in the 1600’s and represent an explosion of the Hartley surname
  • My interpretation is that this Nutter tester had a Hartley ancestor probably in the 1600’s.
  • The next step is to see the Nutter BigY results added to the FTDNA Time Tree. I don’t know if those results will make a change to the date of A11134.

 

How Many ThruLines Matches at the Third Great-Grandparent Level?

In my previous Blog, I looked at matches that my mother had with one of her third great-grandparents. By matches, I mean matches that are from siblings of the second great-grandparent in your line. Here is the example:

Here, John A Lentz is my mother’s third great-grandfather. She has 7 matches under Eliza Lentz and William Andrew Lentz.

I don’t count my mothers Jacob Lentz line. This is the type of ThruLine that I am not counting:

Above, there is no branching under Carl Lutke, so I am counting that as zero extra matches at the third great-grandparent level.

Counting My Mom’s ThruLine Matches to Third Great-Grandparents

I am a fan of Excel, so I will use that program. I’ll start simply:

Everyone should have 32 third great-grandparents. Or, 16 pairs of great-grandparents. Technically a match may descend from one and not the other. Here is my list of third great-grandparents from my mother’s ThruLines

Here I have my mother’s paternal side with a full 16 third great-grandparents. For some reason there are only 12 third great-grandparents on my mother’s maternal side. My guess for a reason: because my mother’s paternal side was from a German Colony in Latvia, there was more intermarriage and therefor more DNA matches.

The yellow surnames are the ones I am not sure of and added in for this excercise. Next, I will go through the 28 3rd GGPs.

Interestingly, the Lentz line which I thought was poorly documented by DNA has the largest number of matches at 7.

Here are the totals and averages:

If I took out the zeroes, the averages would be higher. Also as these numbers are in effect doubled due to pairs of 3rd GGPs, the totals could be shown as half as much.

My Own ThruLines Numbers

Here I’ll want to compare to siblings, so I’ll sue a slightly different format:

This will also be a generation more recent, so there could be more ThruLine matches potentially. This time, I am up to 30 3rd GGPs:

I am missing one pair of ancestors. I wonder which one. The problem is that I don’t know the parents for my 2nd great-grandmother Jane Spratt.

Here I found some surprising results:

I only had Thrulines matches (the way I defined them) in 11 of the 30 3rd GGP Lines. My mother had matches in 20 of her Lines. I’m not sure of the reason why. When I adjusted to the Non-Zero Averages, the numbers were similar to my mother’s:

Comparing Siblings

I’ll start with Heidi, who is listed first at Ancestry:

Our numbers were very similar.

Statistics for My Brother Jon

Jon gets honorable mention in the Bradford/Hathaway Line. This is an important line as it leads back to Governor Bradford of the Mayflower. I have a note that Wilkinson was omitted under Robert Hartley. That is because Robert Hartley died, Mary Pilling remarried a Wilkinson. So this match should not be under Robert Hartley.

My Sister Lori’s ThruLines

I have four siblings who have tested at Ancestry. I also have my father’s cousin who I had tested at Ancestry and another of my father’s cousins. It would be interesting to look at their Hartley side ThruLines.

Lori excelled at Baker and Faunce with the largest number of extra lines from the 3rd great-grandparents.

My Last Sibling at Ancestry: Sharon

This shows that on average there is about one match per ThruLine. However, there are matches in only about one in three ThruLines, because of the ThruLines where there were matches there was an average of about three matches. That is still pretty good for the 4th cousin or further matches where it is not likeily to get a DNA match.

My Father’s Cousins’ Hartley ThruLines at the 3rd GGP Level

I’ll start with Joyce:

Joyce had a lot of Snell matches. She also had those important Pilgrim Bradford matches. Of of 16 Hartley side ThruLines, Joyce had 6 with multiple line matches.

Here is Maury:

Unfortunatley, Maury’s tree has the wrong parents for Harvey Bradford. There were two Harvey Bradfords and the tree has the wrong one. This is understandable as the documents are confusing. I had to check land deeds to sort out the family. Here is the correct ThruLines:

It is interesting that Joyce’s ThruLines go back to a man who was born in 1755.

Summary and Conclusions

  • The exercise gave me an idea of the areas where there are matches from descendants of 3rd GGPs in my family
  • Some ThruLines were not accurate or misleading, but on the most part they appeared to be accurate
  • Most Lines had no extra matches. Some Lines with extra matches were highlighted.