I had a message from Richard that he had his brother Barry’s DNA tested. The last Blog I wrote on Richard was here.
A Summary of Richard’s Frazer Line and DNA
In summary, it seems clear from my earlier Blog, that Richard was related to the same Frazers that I was related to from the areas of South County Sligo and Northern County Roscommon. Based on guesses, family given names and DNA, I came up with this likely tree for Richard in green:
Here is a summary of Richard’s matches:
The Mystery of Michael
A second look at this list shows that Richard had a large match also with Michael who I don’t have as descending from the Philip Line. However, he could match on other lines. For example, we don’t know who the wives were of Philip and Richard Frazer born in the 1700’s. Just looking at Richard’s matches of Paul, Gladys and Michael, it would appear that Richard would come from the Richard Frazer Line (born about 1777). However, Richard did not have a known son named Philip.
Barry’s DNA Compared to His Brother Richard
Barry’s DNA results should even out his brother’s results. What that means is that Richard or Barry could have DNA matches that are on the high or low side. However, when taken together, their results should be indicative of the DNA that their Frazer side mother has. At Gedmatch, I have compared Richard’s and Barry’s matches using their ‘One to Many’ lists:
The purple results are from the line of George Frazer who was born about 1838. The yellow line is from George’s older brother Richard Frazer who was born in 1830. When I last wrote about Richard, I didn’t mention Emily. She is a new match. I have written about Gary, Brian and Karen in other Blogs. The McPartland connection is one that comes up a lot. This family has a Frazer ancestor. The main point in presenting the above chart was to show the differences in matches between Richard and Gary. For example, my sister Sharon does not show up as a match to Richard above the 7.0 cM threshold. However, Sharon matches Barry at 54.7 cM in his One to Many list.
Comparing Barry to Others in the Frazer DNA Project
I added in the McPartlands above. Richard matches that family but his brother doesn’t. That means that my purple and blue table above is wrong that shows Barry matching McPartlands.
A Surprise Off-Topic Discovery
Based on the chart above, I found something surprising. Marilee and Bob match. I wrote a Blog about Marilee here. She appears to descend from the John Line of Frazers. I have her as the only known descendant in the John Line. I actually did look at the match Marilee had with Bob in my previous Blog.
Here is Marilee’s line in pink. Assuming that I have the tree right, that could mean that the McPartlands descend from the John Frazer Line. Perhaps the Ann Frazer who married a McPartland was the daughter of Archibald Frazer and Jane White:
It is a theory based on the match between Marilee and Bob. Here is Bob’s tree with my previous guess that pulled three families together using triangulation.
Well, it looks like I had thought of this before. If this is right, then it means that I descend from the John Line as well as the Philip and Richard Lines of Frazers. One cannot have enough Frazers in their ancestry!
Back to Barry’s DNA
Sorry for the tangent. Here is Barry’s DNA grouped a little differently:
I had trouble grouping Michael and Jane. I should have put them in the Stinson Section. They also descend from Violet Frazer who was the husband of James Frazer and daughter of Richard Frazer. However the Chart above emphasizes James Frazer who was the son of Philip Frazer (if I have it right).
In general if I were to draw a box around all the people believed to be descended from Philip born about 1776, it seems like the matches would hold together.
It is a little difficult to see the distinction as Michael and Jane also have connections to the Richard Frazer Line as a mentioned above. Notice that the matches drop off for Jane when she gets to Richard and Barry, but they don’t drop off for Michael. That could mean that there is some ancestral connection that Michael has to Richard and Barry that Jane does not.
Barry and Jamie – A Johnston Connection?
I see that Barry and Jamie have a large match. I have that Jamie is in the Stinson Section. However, Jamie and John have no matches with the other Stinsons and a pretty good match with Richard and Barry. However, this match may be due to a Johnston connection. Both Barry and Jamie have Johnstons in their ancestry. Other connections are possible. Richard, Barry, Jamie and her brother John all have Johnston grandparents. Their Frazer ancestors go much further back.
Barry and DNA Triangulation Groups
If Barry has a match with two people by DNA and those two people also have a DNA match with each other, that is called a triangulation group. This is a strong DNA match that indicates a common ancestor. I leave the triangulation step until the end as it takes a little bit of work. To triangulate, I need to compare the 28 people that are in the Archibald Frazer descendant group and compare them to each other.
Triangulation Group (TG) Chromosome 12
From my spreadsheet of matches, I see this group on Chromosome 12:
Here Barry matches Jamie and Paul. Paul also matches Jamie. That makes a TG. This means that this DNA on Chromosome 12 came down to these three people from one specific ancestor. Here are two possibilities for common ancestors:
Here at the top of the tree is Archibald Frazer born about 1720 and Mary Lilley. If it wasn’t for the match with Paul, we might guess that Jamie and Barry were matching on a Johnston ancestor as they both have Johnston ancestors. Paul, however, has no known Johnston ancestors. That leaves the above possibility for the TG on Chromosome 12.
TG at Chromosome 17
I already described this TG in my Blog on Richard. However, now Barry has joined the TG. Also Jamie from the Stinson Line. I think that I found out about Jamie after I wrote the Blog on Richard.
These people could be represented with the same common ancestors as in TG 12 above.
This gets confusing, because Lori and I also descend from the Richard Frazer Line. In addition, Michael also descends from the Stinson Line. Also, note that Paul and Marilee have a small match. Perhaps these two would be in the TG if I lowered the DNA match thresholds.
Again, if this was just a match between Barrie and Jamie, I would suspect that it could be from a common Johnston ancestor. However, as Lori, Joel and Michael have no known Johnston ancestors, it appears more likely that this is a Frazer TG.
A New TG on Chromosome 18
Here is a new TG between Barry, Richard, Jamie and Emily.
Again, there seems to be something special about Jamie’s DNA or ancestry, that she has shown up in all three TGs.
I should note that Jamie has the same line as her brother John. That makes me think that Jamie got the Frazer DNA. I wrote a Blog about John here. I would like to write a Blog about his sister Jamie to look into some of the questions that were raised in this Blog.
Here is the match between Jamie and Barry:
Barry has no DNA match with Jamie’s brother John. Barry’s brother Richard has this match with Jamie:
Summary and Conclusions
- I showed how two brothers could have different DNA matches.
- I have put Barry and Richard in the Philip Line. This seems to be supported by the DNA, common first names, and the genealogy that we know of.
- I looked at threeTriangulation Groups (TGs). All of these included Jamie from the Stinson Line. It may help to look more closely into Jamie’s family tree. Perhaps she has other connections to Frazers or to their collateral lines. Or perhaps Jamie has inherited more than the usual amount of Frazer DNA.
- Given that we are not totally sure of the genealogy of many of these lines and that there was intermarriage of Frazers and perhaps other lines, the analysis of the DNA and genealogy is very complicated.
- There is need for more analysis of the DNA matches (and the genealogy). I should look more closely into Jamie’s DNA.