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A New DNA Match in Marilee and a New Frazer Line

I was searching for Frazer matches at MyHeritage recently and came across Marilee. I thought it unlikely that she would be matching on the same Frazer line that I have going back to County Roscommon, Ireland. However, when I looked at her tree, I saw this:

Marilee shows that she descends from John Frazer of Roscommon. Not only does Marilee show that she is related to me, she shows that she is on a Frazer Line that has not been found to be DNA tested yet. That is great news.

Marilee and Frazer Genealogy

The John Frazer Line is shown here in some Frazer research that was done before I was born:

John is shown as the eldest son of Archibald at the top left of the image above. The Frazer DNA Project has people from the Philip, Richard and Archibald Lines, but Marilee is the first from the John Line. This is like finding a lost tribe.

Dating the Archibald Line of the Frazers

The above hand-written tree was done for a coat of arms for a Frazer that was issued in 1952. The birth dates were given for the four brothers as 1757, 1758, 1759 and 1760.  Originally I had followed this early research which had the first known Archibald, born in about 1690 having two sons. The first son was  Archibald who married Mary Lillie and the younger son was James . It was the Archibald who married Mary Lillie that was shown as having the four sons above. Other researchers felt that there needed to be another Archibald in the line for the dates to work out. I added that extra Archibald but never felt all that comfortable doing that. That change also required having later birth dates for the four sons. As a result, perhaps, Marilee’s tree shows John’s first son born when he was two years old!

The Elphin Census of 1749

The first good record I have of North Roscommon Frazers is in the Elphin Census. This is what it shows:

Let’s assume that this represents the situation for the Frazer family in Aghrafinegan, North Roscommon Ireland in 1749. We believe that Archibald had four sons. That means that he had at least four children. The Census shows that Archibald had three children under 14 and none over 14. That makes me believe that these children were on the young side of 14 and that there were children yet to be born .

The Added Archibald

That must be what lead to the researcher’s interpretation that there needed to be another Archibald:

Under this scenario, the Archibald that married Mary Lillie (or Lilly) was not the son of Archibald born around 1690, but his grandson. He was not only the eldest son, but th eldest child.

The One Archibald Scenario – My Preference

There could be many explanations for the Elphin Census. It is possible that none of the children in the Census were the four brothers. That would have to be case if the birth dates of 1757-1760 were right in the early research. Let’s assume under the one Archibald scenario, that Mary Lilly was the mother of all the children. Let’s also say that she may have had children over a time span of 20 years or so. I’ll guess she got married at the age 20 and had children until about the age of 40. I’ll give her 5 years to get married and have three children. That would put their marriage at 1744. I’ll say Archibald was born in 1720 and his brother was born around 1722. If Mary was 20 at the time of her marriage in 1744, then she could have had children until about 1764 or so. If Marilee’s tree is right, then John had a son in 1777. Let’s say John was 22 at the birth of Stuart. That would mean that John would have been born 1755. That is a lot of supposin’, but I would start the four sons’ birth dating at 1755. The other three sons’ births could be spread out between 1755 and 1764 or so.

Further Supposin’

Let’s look at Archibald and James’ parents. Let’s say that Mary was 22 when Archibald was born. I had Archibald born in 1720. That would put her birth at 1698. Then she would have been a 51 year old widow in 1749. Perhaps her husband was two years older than her and was born in 1696. I’ll say he died about 1745 at the age of 49.

John Line Added to the Frazer DNA Tree

This is my tree of the Archibald Branch of Frazers that have had their DNA tested:

Marilee’s eldest John Line is added on the left in pink.  I cut off some of the Archinbald/Stinson Line of the right. I also updated the birth dates for the top two rows. The addition of the John Line to the Frazer DNA Tree is a big deal as the John Line represents 25% of the DNA of these four brothers.

From this tree, Marilee is my 5th cousin once removed. From the configuration of the three, it looks like Marilee’s closest Frazer relative should be a 5th cousin.

I didn’t check Marilee’s genealogy. It wouldn’t hurt for someone to check to see if they come up with the same results she did.

I’m glad I got a new, larger screen on my computer. This is the overall Frazer Project:

This is actually a simplified view as the yellow and blue lines are much bigger. Also the yellow line should be in there three times and the blue line two times. The James line is in white on the right.

Marilee’s DNA

Marilee’s DNA test results are at MyHeritage, so I will only be able to compare her results with those results that I have uploaded to MyHeritage. Let’s see how Marilee compares. I’ll start:

I have a match with Marilee on Chromosome 7 and a small match on Chromosome 20. I can add those to DNA Painter, however, I will have to lower the threshold for the Chromosome 20 match as it is only 6.7 cM.

Here is the view on my DNA Painter Map. I circled the new segments from Marilee that represent Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly.  Green represents my Hartley side. So on Chromsome 7 and 20, these matches are at important places. They represent where my DNA crossed over from my Frazer Grandmother to my Hartley grandfather.

On Chromosome 20, the brown represents my 2nd great grandparents George Frazer and Margaret McMaster.

Where my DNA goes from brown to mustard could be where my DNA crossover went from McMaster to Frazer. There are other possibilities.

Marilee’s DNA Compared to My Siblings

I didn’t see that Marilee had a match with my sister Heidi. Sharon has a match. Sharon’s match was similar to the match I have with Marilee, except it is a little smaller on Chromosome 7 and I didn’t see a match on Chromosome 20. I didn’t see a match between my brother Jonathan and Marilee. My sister Lori’s match with Marilee appears to be identical with mine.

While I was at it, I checked if my cousin Paul and my more distant cousin Gladys matched Marilee, but they did not. So that is it for the DNA comparison for now. The genealogy part was more interesting than the DNA in this case.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It was great to come upon Marilee through her DNA match. Finding a DNA match with someone from the John Line is like finding a lost tribe or city. I have been looking at the DNA for about three years and Marilee is the first DNA-tested John Frazer Lline descendant that I have found.
  • While looking at the John Line, I also streamlined the Archibald Line by taking out an extra Archibald that was added previously.
  • I see why the extra Archibald was added based on an interpretation of the Elphin Census of 1749. However, I see how that extra Archibald is not needed by another interpretation of the Elphin Census.
  • Marilee matches three out of five in my family. By the tree, we would be 5th cousins, once removed. That is pretty far out for a DNA  match.
  • I am hoping that Marilee will be able to get her DNA uploaded to Gedmatch.com. Then, I can take a look to see how she matches all the people in the Frazer DNA project.
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A McMaster from Ireland

I was quite excited recently to hear from John. He saw that I had posted my cousin Paul’s DNA results at MyHeritage. John knew of no Frazer ancestry in his , but did mention McMaster ancestry in Sligo. I wrote back and asked John about his ancestry. Here is his letter:

Joel,

My Grandmother (on my mother’s side) was Elizabeth McMaster married to Charles Roycroft. I was aware of Arthur McMaster as a relative when growing up in Sligo but I never met him. The additional information regarding her siblings, parents and grandparent I got from the 1901 and 1911 census where Arthur, Archie and Catherine McMaster were listed as farmers at Dromore, Kilmactranny. The attached Roycroft family tree is on Excel (from left to right instead of from top down) with some additional information included as comments in the cells with a little red triangle in the top right hand corner. Hoping you can bridge the gap!

 

B 26/11/1871 Charles Roycroft
D 13/01/1925
M –/–/1910
B –/–/1888 Elizabeth McMaster
D 19/12/1965
Siblings
B –/–/1883 Arthur William McMaster
B –/–/—- 4th McMaster
B –/–/1892 Lily Margaret McMaster
Parents
B –/–/1850 Archie McMaster
B –/–/1854 Jane …………..
Grand-Parent  
B –/–/1829 Catherine ………….

Regards,

John

Now, I have a few McMaster Web Pages that I can dust off. All I have to do is find an Archie who married a Jane. I was able to find this family, but I had to look at two of my web pages. I have one web page on the McMasters where I mention different lines of McMasters in the Kilmactranny Parish area of County Sligo. I was not able to tie them all together.

McMasters Everywhere

Here is Archie from my McMasters of Dromore Web Page:

I am more related on Jane’s side. Jane was also a McMaster. To complicate things, I have that both of Jane’s  and Archibald’s parents were McMasters! Talk about being related. So John’s Elizabeth must be the Ann Elizabeth that I have.

McMaster DNA Tree

I already have a tree for some McMasters that have had their DNA tested. I’ll just add John in on my James McMaster Sr/Fanny McMaster side. But…

Uh Oh, Problems

While looking at my references, I found one that goes against what John and I had. Here is a wedding that someone I know transcribed from the Kimactranny Church:

This throws a wrench in the works. John had that Elizabeth was the daughter of Archie McMaster and Jane. That seemed to correspond with my records that had Ann Elizabeth as the daughter of Achibald McMaster and Jane McMaster.

Going back to my web page, I see a Lizzie Jane here that seems to match the marriage record:

I guess it could be confusing having an Ann Elizabeth born in 1887 and a Lizzie Jane born in 1888. I hope John doesn’t mind me swapping out his grandmother. My guess is that the person doing the wedding got Lizzie’s dad right. Also Mary Kate, who was a witness at the wedding, was a younger sister of Lizzie Jane. There was an Arthur in this McMaster family also.  Perhaps it was this Arthur that John had heard about.

Here is Lizzie Jane 1901:

It looks like the father Robert had died four years prior to this time. However, that brings up a question as to Helena. When I look at the Census, she shows as 5 months old.

Here is the tree I come up with:

The record for Edward McMaster’s birth in 1851 is missing. That could be because he was born during a time when the records at Kilmactranny Church were either not recorded or lost.

John’s DNA

That was a bit of a complicated introduction to John’s genealogy. What about the DNA?

First, I looked at how my cousin Paul matched John. I noted that Paul and John’s shared DNA Match was Emily. I also noted that there was a triangulation icon next to Emily. That means that Paul, John and Emily share one or more common segments. Triangulation means that Paul, Emily and John should also share common ancestors.

MyHeritage circles the segments that are in common and triangulate. The red matches are Paul’s matches with John. The yellow matches are Paul’s matches with Emily.

These circled areas are on Chromosome 3 and 18.

If I have it right, Abraham McMaster and his wife Margery would be the common ancestors between John, Emily and Paul. In this scenario, John is a fourth cousin to Emily and Paul. Emily and Paul are 2nd cousins to each other.  This fits in with MyHeritage’s prediction that Paul and John are 3rd-5th cousins by the amount of DNA that they share.

I also note that four of my siblings have shared DNA matches with Paul and John, but not me.  However, my siblings don’t have the triangulation sign.

Now in a previous Blog on the subject, I was able to infer triangulation between Ron, Steve, Lori and Emily:

The above triangulation was on Chromosome 13. So perhaps Stephen, Ron, and John all descend from Robert McMaster. Emily is a key person as she is in both Triangulation Groups.

Summary and Conclusions

  • McMaster Genealogy is confusing. In addition, the DNA can be confusing due to intermarriages.
  • John is the first DNA match to my family that matches primarily on the McMaster side. Ron and Stephen also share McMaster DNA with me, but their primary match is on another line (Clarke).
  • I think that I have Ron, Stephen and John in the right tree descending from Roibert McMaster. There could be other McMaster connections, but I just looked at the closest ones.
  • John’s paper trail is clearer than Ron and Stephen’s. John has a good marriage record for his grandparents that ties Lizzie Jane to the Robert and Anne McMaster family. The 1901 Census also makes the relationships clear.
  • The birth record for Edward McMaster is missing. However, many other records for many years were missing from the Kilmactranny Church. Edward’s wedding record gives his Father’s name as Robert and his mother as Mary which would fit into the tree as I have it.
  • Triangulation appears to put Stephen and Ron in the Sligo McMaster family.
  • Triangulation also confirms the genealogical evidence for John’s grandmother.
  • I am happy to find a McMaster relative through DNA matching. It would be helpful if John and Ron uploaded their DNA results to Gedmatch.com for more DNA analysis.
  • There must be a lot of McMaster descendants, so I must have a lot more McMaster relatives.

 

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Playing with DNAPainter

i have been hearing a lot of rave reviews about DNAPainter, an award-winning DNA analytical tool. So I thought that I would try it. Before I tried it, I had to finish my taxes. Now my State Taxes are in the mail and my Federal Taxes are e-filed, so I’m raring to go.

Using DNA Painter

The instructions seemed pretty straight-forward and intuitive. In short time, I went through a lot of my Gedmatch top matches and painted into the program.

I have a lot of 2nd cousins as my Hartley great grandparents (represented in green above on the DNAPainter) had 13 children that made it past infancy.

My grandfather is third from the right with his 12 siblings and mom. I”m told this photo was from 1938.

The DNAPainter shows that I have painted 28% of my chromosome. So far I have not started on my X Chromosome and still have some more to map.

The Matches Behind the Matches – Under the Hood

This is one of the cool features of DNAPainter. Here is Chromosome 18, for example:

This shows that on the top paternal side, I have a blue match mapped to James Frazer and Violet Frazer. They were born around 1804. When I select the Chromosome, it opens up, so I can see the matches that make this up:

The Maternal side splits out also, but I am just looking at the Paternal side for now. These four bars represent four people that I match and two sets of common ancestors. The brown represents my Frazer and McMaster great-grandparents. The blue represents my Frazer 2nd great-grandparents.

Separating the DNA and the Ancestors

A lot of genetic genealogy is about separating out the DNA. For example, if I have a match on the brown segment above, I would like to know if it is specifically Frazer or McMaster DNA. My guess is the brown match with Emily above is a Frazer and not a McMaster match. Emily in brown above should match Gladys, Susan, and Doreen in blue.

It seems like Emily has to match the blue matches, but I’ll check to make sure:

These are Emily’s matches with Doreen, Susan and Gladys (in that order). Emily’s matches with these three women go from about 26M to 53M. Emily matches me from 35M to 52M. Now on my Chromosome 18, I got all my paternal DNA from my Frazer grandmother. I can now know two things:

  • The match with Emily is a George Frazer match and not a McMaster match
  • The segment right before 35M and after 52M on my Chromosome is not from George Frazer. This could be DNA I got from McMaster or even my grandmother’s mother Clarke.

Because I know that my match with Emily is with George William Frazer, I can map that DNA more specifically. In order to do that I click on the brown Emily segment on Chromosome 18:

Then I choose Edit Segment.

Under the drop-down menu for Group/ancestor, there is an option for ‘Create a new group’. This looks like a good option.

 

Now the match with Emily is yellow and represents just George Wm Frazer 1838. This means in a practical way, I will not be looking for McMaster matches in this segment, but Frazer matches.

More George on Chromosome 7

By the way, here is George Frazer and his wife Margaret McMaster:

Again, the light blue goes back to James and Violet Frazer in the early 1800’s. On the end of the blue segment, it gets a little darker, indicating that something is going  on. That is when I look under the hood:

Again, here is a match in brown (indicating Frazer/McMaster.  However, this time it is a match with my cousin Paul and not with Emily. This has to be just George Frazer as it is overlapping with a match going back to the parents of George. The two blue matches represent Ken and his sister Susan. Ken does not show up on Paul’s match list, as the match would be too small. However, Paul does show a match with Susan.

This match that Paul has with Susan is at about the same location as the match I have with Paul. That is triangulation and shows that the DNA that Paul and I share in brown should be in yellow for George McMaster.

I went in and edited the segment that I share with Paul:

It doesn’t look llke a big change, but I would rather have a short specifically identified segment than a longer more vague segment.

Splitting Out My Hartley/Snell Great-Grandparents

I have a lot of interest in splitting out my Hartley and Snell great-grandparents. That is because my Hartley great-grandfather was born in Bacup, Lancashire and my Snell great-grandmother has ancestry going back to SE Massachusetts in Colonial times. I have brick wall issues on the Hartley family in Lancashire.

Here is my Chromosome 9 from DNAPainter. I got all my paternal DNA from my paternal Hartley grandfather on Chromosome 9. Here are my second cousin (and 1C1R) matches that I have mapped so far:

These two areas look suspiciously like crossovers:

These are likely areas where my DNA switched from Snell to Hartley, or from Hartley to Snell. The first circle is at 81M. The second circle is at 126M. If I were to look at all my Chromosome 9 paternal matches, I may be able to figure out which ones have Colonial Massachusetts ancestry and which ones have Lancashire ancestry.

Adding More Matches to DNAPainter

I’ll add Michael. We have a common ancestor going back to the 1700’s.

Our common ancestor is Richard Frazer. I don’t know his exact birth year or his wife’s name. However, the red DNA that we share could be from Richard Frazer or his wife. So I indicated that in the key. I also notice that on Chromosome 17, there are a few hash marks. This indicates a common pile-up area within the area of the match that I have with Michael.

Adding Nigel

Nigel is a maternal match and our common ancestors also go way back to Sheffield, England.

This yellow match on Chromosomes 1 and 3 goes back to 1765. When I hit the orange refresh button, I see that my mapping has increased from 28% to 29%:

It also shows that I added 4 segments.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was most impressed with the individual segment look underneath the map. This is what Roberta Estes calls the self-triangulating feature. I think of it as the under the hood look.
  • Using the under the hood look and known cousins, I was able to assign DNA to a specific ancestor in two cases. This requires multiple known matches in overlapping segments.
  • I’m sure that this feature will have more applications for me with unknown matches in the future.
  • I would like to try to use DNAPainter to separate out my Hartley and Snell sides going back to my great-grandparents.
  • Next up, I’ll map more DNA from MyHeritage, FTDNA and/or 23andme.

 

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Paula’s Ellis DNA?

I had an email from Paula recently. Paula believes she descends from the Ellis family of Prince Edward Island. I told her I would take a look at the DNA as my wife’s family also descends from the Ellis family of PEI. Paula believes that she descends from Edward Stanley Ellis born 1905.

The Ellis Family

The Ellis Family was a large one from PEI. Here are a few of the descendants that I have been tracking by DNA:

Above are represented three of the children of William Ellis and Hannah Tawton. Paula has done it the right way by posting a tree at Gedmatch. She shows herself descending from William Ellis and Agnes Ellis. Note on the existing tree that Robert and his mother descend from Mary Ann and Agnes Ellis.

Here I have circled Paula in the purple William line and the salmon Agnes Line. I just noticed something interesting. I have that Sarah on the far right has three Ellis ancestors. That is a bit confusing. I am guessing that they are all related. I suppose this is where Paula’s offer to send my Tylenol comes in. Due to Paula’s configuration, she is on a branch by herself on the left. She is on a branch on the Agnes side on the right, but within that branch, she is sixth on that branch. Due to her distance from others, DNA matching should not be as good as others already within the Ellis group.

Paula’s DNA

Here is how Paula compares to other Ellis descendants in general:

Paula’s biggest match is with Agnes.

Triangulation Groups

Any Triangulation Group that Paula is in may give hints as to common ancestors. We have to be careful due to the intermarriages between common PEI families.

I found Paula to be in one Triangulation Group (TG) with Margaret and Laura here:

This TG could be shown this way:

Ruling Out Other Options

A lot of genetic genealogy is about ruling out options. Paula needs to check Margaret’s ancestry to make sure there are not any other ancestors she may be matching going back about four generations. If that can be done without finding other common ancestors, then that makes the above diagram more sure.

Paula would be a third cousin, twice removed to Margaret and a fourth cousin once removed to Laura. Paula matches both of them at 32.5 cM which is a very good match.

This shows that 32.5 is not far off from what one would suspect for a 4C1R or a 3C2R.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I cannot say for sure that Paula is an Ellis. I would like to see some closer relatives tested along her two long lines to be more sure. In that way, the DNA matches could be worked back or worked up the lines.
  • I cannot say that Paula is not an Ellis. The matches with other Ellis’ seem consistent with what would be expected.
  • Paula does triangulate with an Aunt/niece combination. The ancestry of the aunt and niece should be checked to see whether there are other common ancestors at the level of William Ellis and Hannah Tawton or at a more recent generation.

Paula at MyHeritage

I notice that Paula is also at MyHeritage. MyHeritage shows shared matches that Paula and my wife’s Aunt Elaine have. One common match appears to be a half sister of Paula. In these shared matches, I am looking for triangulation. MyHeritage will show that.

 

At the top is Paula’s estimated half- sister. To the right there is a purple icon which indicates triangulation. Further down is Sharon, also with triangulation. Here is Sharon’s tree:

Sharon has John Raynor and Sarah Simmons which is also a common ancestor of Elaine. This may be where the triangulation occurs. But notice that Sharon is missing a maternal side, so there may be other possibilities.

The next person to triangulate with Paul and Elaine is Stephen. He triangulates in the same spot that Sharon does on Chromosome 2:

I couldn’t figure out Stephen’s tree, so I don’t know if he has Raynor or Ellis ancestors.

The next person to triangulate with Elaine and Paula is Elizabeth. She also triangulates at the same spot as the previous two people. She also has no tree.

So, going through MyHeritage showed that Paula may triangulate on the Raynor side. That doesn’t mean that she isn’t an Ellis ancestor. All very interesting. We will have to see if more matches turn up that will solve Paula’s mystery.

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A New Frazer Tested for YDNA

People say that YDNA is complicated. It is not too complicated. YDNA gets passed on from father to son unchanged. Except it does change on average about once every 144 years or so. That reminds me of how to have a good lawn. Plant grass seed. Wait 100 years and you will have a good lawn.

Rodney Added to the Frazer YDNA Tree

 

There is some confusion on the Archibald line (left side)  as to whether there should be two Archibalds or one under the top Archibald. Some researchers added one to make the dates look better, but I am thinking of taking one back out. For example, an alternate tree has one Archibald but has Philip born 1758 instead of 1776.

Here is the alternate tree:

 

If nothing else, the symmetry is better on this one.

Rodney’s STRs

Rodney tested for 111 STRs. That is a good amount. Jonathan also tested for 111 STRs. Rick and Paul tested 67. STRs are Short Random Repeats. These are repeats of certain markers on the YDNA. They may increase or decrease every so many 100’s or 1,000’s of years. Some markers change faster than others. Over a large amount of time these markers could go up or down and we wouldn’t know it as we weren’t around 1,000 years ago to test them. However, this tree only goes back to about 1690 or so, so we shouldn’t have to worry about that.

Rodney’s Vs Jonathan on the Thomas Henry Line

Jonathan’s sister asked me about Rodney and Jonathan’s STR comparisons. Rodney and Jonathan had a perfect match at 67 STRs but a one difference at 111 STRs. That was because their only difference was between STR 68 and 111. The actual marker for this difference is at DYS552. Rodney has a value of 24 and Jonathan has a value of 25. That means that Jonathan has one more Short Random Repeat compared to Rodney. Out of all the STRs, that is the one that distinguishes Rodney’s Line from Jonathan’s line.

Which Line Changed: William or Edward Fitzgerald?

And does it matter? It would be nice to know who changed, because that would mean either 24 or 25 would be ancestral, meaning that Thomas Henry either had 24 or 25 for that marker and one of the lines changed. I did not have the 111 STR test done for my cousin Paul, but he has taken the BigY. When he had that test done, I uploaded his results to YFull and they extracted some of the STRs from the BigY test. Unfortunately, the extraction from the BigY test does not get good reads for all the STRs. Fortunately, Paul did get a result for DYS552. He had a result of 25.

That means that 25 is likely the ancestral value. 25 would also likely be the value for Archibald Frazer born around 1690.

This is the way I’ve heard STRs explained. Pretend at every conception along the male line through the ages, the YDNA is going through a copying machine. All the different STRs are being copied. Every three generations or so, one of the 111 STRs has a copying error and one more copy or one less copy is made. In Rodney’s case, one less copy must have been made of DYS552 in either Rodney, Rodney’s dad or his grandfather, William Frazer.

There is one implication concerning the mutation in Rodney’s line. When Paul is compared to Rodney and Jonathan, it looks like he is more distantly related to Rodney than Jonathan. These differences are called GDs or Genetic Distances. However, based on the tree, Paul is related no more closely or further away from either Rodney or Jonathan.

It’s Simple

That is why I said at the top that YDNA is easy. Rodney and Jonathan have a common ancestor of Thomas Henry Frazer born 1836. Jonathan and Rodney have a GD of 1. That means that change happened after Thomas Henry Frazer as he had only one value for each of his 111 STRs. Because we know Paul’s result for DYS552, we know Thomas Henry Frazer’s value at location DYS552. There is only one catch. It is possible for STRs to go up and down. What if DYS552 changed more than once since 1690? This would be highly unlikely. If DYS552 was a fast-moving STR or if there were several thousands of years to the common ancestor, this would be more likely, but that is not the case here.

The Bigger Picture

Using the same principles, I should be able to get some ancestral values for our common ancestor, Archibald Frazer. However, let’s start with a smaller part of the Archibald tree, like we did on the James Line.

Here is Rick and Paul on the Archibald Line of the Frazer YDNA tree. Where Rodney and Jonathan had 3 generations to have YDNA changes from their common ancestor, Paul has 4 generations and Rick has 5 generations from their common ancestor of James Frazer born about 1804.

Rick has taken the 67 STR test but not the BigY test. Paul has taken the 67 STR test and the BigY test. As a result, he has some results from the 111 STR test, but is missing many of the STR markers between 68 and 111. Here are the differences between Paul and Rick:

Getting the Ancestral STR Values

Now I want to know what values James had for his STRs for 444 and 576. These are the values that Rodney and Jonathan have going up to the orignal Frazer ancestor born around 1690.

That means that Rick’s STR of 444 went down one repeat from 14 to 13 and Paul’s  STR of 576 went up from 18 to 19.

Putting it Together

Now we know that Archibald , born about 1690 had 444 = 14, 576 = 18 (oops, typo above) and 552 = 25. However, there are two other differences from the Archibald Line and the James Line.  It will be easier to show this on a tree:

Now there is a tie, so how do we tell which values are ancestral? (That should be CDY above.) In order to figure out the ancestral values, we have to go outside the Frazer project and bring in some more distant relatives: Grant, Hayes, and Stewart. Fortunately, I have already done this in a previous Frazer YDNA Blog:

This shows the ancestral value to be 391 = 10 and CDY = 35-38. Now we have our five ancestral values for Archibald.

Here is the final Frazer STR Tree:

 

Observations:

  • If I drew this right, Jonathan has no mutations going back to Archibald, born about 1690.
  • Paul and Rick both have three mutations going back from the same Archibald.
  • There are more mutations on the Archibald Line than the James Line, but they average out.
  • Paul and Rick have a GD of 2. That represents differences in marker 444 and 576.
  • Paul has a GD of three compared to Rodney and Jonathan. This is based on markers 391, CDY and 444. 552 was not counted as Paul did not test at FTDNA for 552.
  • This tree contains some 67 STR results and some 111 STR resuilts.
  • Other direct male Frazer descendants that have YDNA STR tests should be able to tell what branch of the Frazer tree they are in based on this tree.
  • This gives an idea of how the mutations occur. There were two mutations that happened rather quickly between about 1690 and 1804 on the Archibald Line. So that was one every 57 years.  Rodney had one mutation. I’m not sure when he was born, but let’s say one mutation in 260 years. Let’s say Paul and Rick had a mutation about once per 87 years. An average between Paul or Rick and Rodney would be about one mutation in 173 years. This is comparing a bit of apples and oranges as some tested at 67 STRs and some tested at 111. I don’t know how to average Jonathan in as he has no known mutations.

 

Dating Using the McDonald TMRCA Calculator

Rodney and Jonathan

That should say generations at the bottom. Jonathan and Rodney have a common ancestor at three generations.  This calculator’s first choice for a GD of one at 111 markers is 2 generations away. Three generations would be the third choice.

Paul and Rick

This graph tops out at 5 generations. Paul and Rick are 4.5 generations away from a common ancestor, so that is close enough.

Paul Compared to Rodney (and Jonathan)

Paul and Rodney are 7 generations to a common ancestor. At least they are on the tree without the extra Archibald. This shows 8 as the first choice, but almost the same chance as being 7 generations away. Rick and Rodney should be at the same genetic distance (GD) and they show as 7.5 generations away from a common ancestor. These would also apply to the matches between Rick, Paul and Jonathan.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Rodney’s YDNA test has added some symmetry to the Frazer YDNA Tree
  • The YDNA test does not appear to be precise enough to tell us if the Archibald tree is correct or not. Either configuration would be reasonable based on the YDNA.
  • The Frazer STR tree sets down some results that places the four tested Frazer descendants in their different branches.
  • A Frazer that is unsure of his branch would be able to test his STRs and find out which branch he is in.

 

 

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Walking the Streets of the Boston of My Ancestors and Relatives

In my previous Blog, I looked at the early married life of my great-grandparents James Archibald Frazer and Margaret Clarke in some detail. I also looked at where they had their photos taken and where James lived and worked in the 1890’s. In this Blog, I would like to show some connections leading up to my great-grandparents’ arrival in Boston by using maps and City Directories.

Frazer, Clarke and McMaster

These three families were inter-related. Also the Frazer and McMaster families were related in County Sligo, Ireland. I would like to pull these three families together as they lived in Boston. Here are some examples of the inter-relatedness of these Boston families:

  • William McMaster married Catherine Clarke 1882
  • James Archibald married Margaret Clarke. James was William’s nephew. Margaret was Catherine’s sister.
  • Celia Clarke married Edward McMaster in 1876. Celia was Catherine and Margaret’s older sister. I believe that Edward and William were first cousins.

It is a bit confusing.

The McMasters

Edward McMaster was the first that I have a record of to make it from County Sligo to Boston. According to Edward’s Naturalization records, he made it to Boston in 1868:

McMaster and Clarke in 1880

Here is the 1880 Census

Edward and Celia are living in the same house as Charles McGarry (here shown as McGeary) and Celia Clarke. Charles was a furniture dealer. Edward was a Hack Driver.

The elder Celia Clarke was the Aunt of the Celia married to Edward McMaster. Here is a partial Clarke tree:

Those in green have had their DNA tested. The two Celia’s are on the top left of the tree. It would stand to reason that the elder Celia came to the US prior to the younger one. A family story says that Charles McGarry was Roman Catholic and that they left for the US due to the scandal of a Protestant and Catholic marrying.

The North Boston Years

Here is a map of Margin Street from 1877. Margin is between the green 12 and the two red smudges below. Later in the Blog I show that 23 Margin Street where the McGarry and McMaster family lived was to the right of the letter “N.” on the Street (below Cooper).

I suppose some of these buildings on North Margin are the same or similar to those in 1880:

There were four families living at 23 North Margin Street in 1880. It looks like there could be about four floors in these buildings.

Going Back in Time – McGarry’s

I said that I was going to use the City Directory and maps. Here is Charles in 1869:

I feel confident that this is the same Charles McGarry based on the spelling of his last name and his profession. I am having a bit of trouble interpreting the entry. I assume that he works a J. Nealon & Co. at 135 Endicott. Endicott is one street to the West of North Margin. It appears that Charles lived still at 23 South Margin, but I’m unclear as to what 26 Charlestown refers to. I assume that 23 South Margin and 23 North Margin Street are the same place(?)

Let’s see if the 1870 Directory clarifies things:

Now there are three Charles’. It appears that our Charles was at 23 South Margin. Then there is another Charles who lives and works at 135 Endicott Street. Current day Grimes Street is in South Boston. So that means that there were two Charles McGarry’s living in the same area. Our Charles did not work at 135 Endicott, but worked at 26 Charlestown Street.

A Clue in the 1871 Directory

Here is page 190 of the Boston Business Directory:

This looks to be the same Charles that lived at 23 South or North Margin Street in the North End of Boston. I needed to pan out on the 1877 Fire Insurance Map:

So Charles, based on the 1880 Census was a furniture dealer. It appears that his place of business was on Charlestown Street. From what I can tell Charleston Street is now North Washington St.

This appears to be the same Charles in the 1864 Boston Business Directory:

If my connections are correct, then Charles would have come to the US a while before 1864. I assume that it took him a while to build up a business.

I am still going backwards in time. Here is the McGarry couple in 1860:

Charles’ holdings at $1200 are substantial compared to his neighbor who had $20 to his name. Most had nothing listed next their name. For some reason, I could not find the McGarry family in the 1870 Census.

Going back 5 years, could this be Charles, Celia and Charles’ mother Bridget in the 1855 State Census?

This Charles was listed as a laborer. To fill in the gaps, here is Charles in 1857:

The Boston Almanac for the year 1861 gives a bit more detail Here are some listings for Charlestown Street:

This gets to our walk through Boston. Imagine walking down Charlestown Street North towards Charlestown. McGarry’s Furniture would be the last business on the right before coming to Cooper Street. For Charles to get home from work, he would just need to walk down Cooper Street to North Margin. From what I can tell 23 Margin was on the Southeast corner of Cooper and North Margin Streets.

Back to the McMaster Family

Charles McGarry with his wife Celia Clarke probably came to Boston in the 1850’s. Charles established a furniture business. Edward McMaster arrived in Boston about 1868. His future wife Celia Clarke arrived in Boston about 1873. I can’t find the Edward McMaster or McGarry family in the 1870 Census. It seems like Celia Clarke was able to find her Aunt Celia McGarry. As I mentioned above, they were living in the same house at 23 North Margin Street in 1880.

Going back two years to 1878, Edward and family was at 23 North Margin Street:

This was the same year that Edward’s first child was born: Frederick William McMaster. On Frederick’s birth record, his mother’s name is listed as Cecilia.

1876

There were not a lot of listings for McMaster in 1876, so I’ll show them all:

This is certainly the Edward that married Celia Clarke later in 1876.

This appears to be 93 West Cedar Street where Edward lived before he married.

West Cedar was  across Town from Margin Street. The question now is when and where did Edward meet Celia? I didn’t see a listing for Celia in the 1876 directory. Perhaps she was already living at North Margin Street?

William McMaster

William’s naturalization record says that he arrived in this country on 1 May 1869. I don’t believe that he is the same person as the liquor dealer mentioned in the 1876 Boston City Directory. Here is a photo of William McMaster and his wife Catherine Clarke.

Probably taken around 1882. Reverse of picture indicates that they were engaged “about 1881” and married October 5, 1882.

 

Here is a document from 1879.

This says that William was a cook and that he arrived at New York. I’ll check the 1879 Boston Directory to see if William McMaster is there. In 1879 there are still few by the McMaster name.

Edward McMaster married Celia Clarke in 1876. Perhaps our William is the McMasters living at 15 Grenville place. However, I don’t know where this is and it does not give a profession for William. William did marry Catherine Clarke in 1882. At that time he was also listed as a cook.

William and Edward 1889

Here is a snapshot of two McMaster families. West Cedar sounds familiar.

Edward McMaster (and Celia Clarke) 1889

At some point Edward has moved out of the McGarry House on North Margin street back to West Cedar where he lived before he was married.

The middle circle is where Edward lived before he married. The bottom circle is hwere the family lived in 1889. Perhaps he wished to be closer to the City Stables. He was after all a driver. There were no cars in that day so he must have driven horses. Did Edward have horse experience from the farm in County Sligo that he was able to use in Boston?

I have to zoom out a little to show North Russell Street where Edward McMaster worked.

North Russell is another street that no longer exists. There is now a Hotel and Whole Foods Market where North Russell Street used to be.

William McMaster (and Catherine Clarke) 1889

This is the first time I have been able to pin down William to a place. He married Catherine, Celia’s younger sister in 1882 and is living at 73 Camden Street in 1889.

Camden Street  brings me back where I left off in my last Blog:

Two years later, in 1891, the directory shows that my great-grandfather James Frazer was living at Gainsborough Street. Gainsborough is on the other side of the tracks from Camden Street. Here are a few McMasters:

The lines that I have carried down have had their DNA tested. I’m guessing that James mother said, “When you get to Boston, make sure you look up my brother, your Uncle William”.

1893 McMaster Update

Before I closed out the 1893 City Directory, I took a peek to see where the McMaster families were. I was a bit surprised:

William the cook was now living at 9 Gainsborough. He moved in when his nephew James Frazer moved out to Westminster Street.

Edward moved from one side of the M.E. (Methodist Episcopal?) Church to the other with his wife and five or six children. In 1895, Edward was listed at 44 Garden Street. I checked the 1900 Census and they were still at 44 Garden Street for the Census. This is a hilly street and one of the streets that I used to do hill training on when I worked in Boston.

Back to Celia Clarke McGarry 1902

Celia Clarke died in 1902 at the home of the Edward McMaster family:

Here we have gone full circle. Celia took in her niece Celia  and family in the 1870’s and now the McMaster family is taking care of the elderly Celia apparently between the time that Charles McGarry died and Celia’s death.

Here is Celia’s will. Celia was the one who started the ball rolling for my family and others by moving to Boston with her husband.

So Where Are We?

  1. Charles McGarry and Celia Clarke leave Ireland after becoming part of a frowned-upon mixed marriage.
  2. Charles apparently does well in the furniture business in the North End of Boston.
  3. Celia Clarke, niece of Celia Clarke McGarry comes to the US after her mother dies. She apparently lives with the McGarry’s.
  4. Celia Clarke marries Edward McMaster, a Hack Driver, who is also from County Sligo and lives on West Cedar Street. They both live for a while in the same house as the McGarry’s in Boston’s North End. The family then moves back to West Cedar Street and Grove Street then to Garden Street in the Beacon Hill area of Boston.
  5. William McMaster who I believe is a first cousin of Edward McMaster arrives in Boston and works as a cook. He marries Celia’s sister Catherine McMaster and they live on Camden Street not far from the current Northeastern University. William signs as a witness on Edward McMaster’s Naturalization Papers.
  6. William’s nephew arrives in Boston in 1887. He is my great-grandfather James Archibald Frazer. He presumably lives with his Uncle until he gets his bearings and finds a job. James then rents a place on Gainsborough Street not far from William. Around the same time James moves from Gainsborough Street to neaby Westminster Street, William moves into the same adress where James lived.
  7. James Frazer marries Margaret Clarke in 1892. Margaret arrives in Boston in 1884 and is the youngest full sister of Celia and Catherine.

Here is Margaret Clarke with an unidentified man and James Frazer on the right.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I have tried to write a summary of some of the events that lead up to some of my Irish relatives’ arrival to Boston and how their lives were connected.
  • This is a bare bones structure and I’m sure some more details could be filled in. For example, what happened to the other Clarke sister, Jane? Why does the marriage record for Catherine Clarke give her father’s name as James and not Thomas?
  • I am doubly related to Edward McMaster/Celia Clarke and William McMaster/Catherine Clarke descendants.
  • James Archibald was a Tea Salesman and later got into real estate. He was preceded by a furniture dealer, a hack driver and a cook.
  • Descendants from Edward McMaster/Celia Clarke have taken a DNA test. I would be even more closely related to descendants of William McMaster/Catherine Clarke. I would like to see some of those descendants take a DNA test.
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Fun with Photos: Clarke, Frazer, McMaster and ? in the 1890’s

In my previous post, I published a book of photos that was in my grandmother’s possession. They were photos taken around the time of my great-grandmother’s short time of being in the US. Margaret Clarke arrived in the US about 1884 at about age 18. She died in 1902 at age 35.

Statistics: Known and Unknown

The photos that I posted can be put into two categories: those that I know and those that I don’t. Most of the known photos were of James Archibald Frazer, born 1867 and his wife Margaret Clarke, born 1866.

  • Known photos – 15
  • Unknown photos – 31
  • Both known and unknown – 2
  • Repeats – 5
  • Missing slot – 1

That means there should be 54 places in the book. There are more than two times the photos that are unknown compared to the recognizable photos. Sometimes there is more than one person that is unknown on a photo.

Known and Unknown

A photo with a known and an unknown should be helpful.

This man in the tintype above also has his own photo here:

My previous guess was that he could have been the best man at my great-grandparents’ wedding.

A Woman with Margaret

This picture appears twice – both in tintype. A guess could be Margaret Clarke’s bridesmaid?

This photo is in the book right after the previous photo. The woman on the right looks to be the same woman as the one with Margaret in the previous photo. In addition, I wonder if these two are sisters as they have similarly shaped faces.

Face Recognition Software

I don’t know how good the software is, but it should be fun to play around with it. I first tried Pictriev. It seemed like photo 33B were two brothers:

These two got an 86% rating:

These two from the same photo that I thought were sisters get a similar rating:

While I was changing over, I still had the man above on the right and the woman on the left. The two got a 0% rating, for comparison.

Here the woman on the left is the one holding the black back with Margaret Clarke.

I thought that these two would be the same, but they got a lower rating. The woman on the left is at a little angle. I don’t know if that is enough to make a difference.

Here is a different combination:

This at least gives a bit of a subjective meter, rather than “I think they look like the same person”.

This woman is still in the 50’s for similarity:

These two did slightly better:

These two women at least scored over 70%:

Tricking PicTriev

Here are two that I am quite sure are both my great grandmother Margaret Clarke:

When I click the identity button, it says that they are not the same person.

Both these photos are straight on, but the score is even worse.

Above is a different score, but PicTriev still says that they are different people.

Here is the highest match so far:

PicTriev still has them as different people. I hadn’t realized that I have three photos of James Frazer without a mustache. I will assume that those are the earliest photos: 3, 6, and 33C.

My conclusion is that PicTriev is fun to play with, but not very accurate.

Photos by Studio

Here is a summary sorted by studio:

CE Beane wins the prize with 9 photographs. Following that are Elmer Chickering and Gray with four each. However, Gray has two different addresses. Perhaps they moved at a certain point. There were two photos taken at Gendron. The rest of the Studios took one photo each.

James Frazer 1892

Here is James in the 1892 directory:

This was the same entry as the year before, so I suppose where he lived while single:

 

Here I mention the James above my James A. as he appears in earlier Directories also as living and working in East Boston. I show this to indicate that it was not my James living in East Boston and working as a steward.

Here is James in 1893, showing his married address:

Here his place of work is not mentioned. Was he out of work or in transition?

Here is how that area looked on the 1888 Directory Map:

To the left of Gainsborough is Northeastern University. It is interesting that my father and I both graduated from this University. 1961 Washington Street is just below the corner of Thorndike Street. Thorndike is one Street to the SW of Newcomb.

Add in the CE Deane Studio

The Street to the bottom of the lower part of the lower circle was Warren Street. Cousin Fred did some research on C.E. Beane:

 

Gray Studio

The Gray Studio was fairly close by also:

I have circled it in purple. Here is some more from Fred:

The Frazer Family 1894

In 1894, now James is not merely boarding as he was in 1892, but has a house:

A peek down below at a later Directory shows that the Wharton Tea House was at 1971 Washington Street.

1895 showed the same entry:

Here is where an old map of Boston comes in handy.

There is no longer a Westminster Street in this area. It appears that when my grandmother was born, the Frazers were living between two photo studios and James’ place of work on Washington Street. I would imagine that 1971 Washington Street where James was either a clerk or a salesman would have been about one building away from 1961 Washington Street.

Oddly the birth record for my grandmother mentions that the family was living at the Hotel Westminster at the time:

With Hotel Westminster in quotes. There was a famous Hotel Westminster at Copley Square:

I can’t imagine that the Frazers were living there.

Elmer Chickering Studio

I would not want to leave out any studio. Elmer Chickering is listed at 21 West Street.

Perhaps while in downtown Boston, the Frazers would have their photos taken. I also circled Temple Place as Ritz Portraits was there. In addition, Margaret Clarke had a photo taken at The Ideal Photo Studio on Washington across from Temple Place. I am familiar with the area as I worked at 1 Winter Street for many years.

21 West Street appears to be vacant but I have eatenat Fajitas and Ritas which is the building on the left.

Gendron – 13 Tremont Row

I had wrongly read this as 13 Tremont, Rox(bury). Interestingly, this was a female photographer, Miss Addie M. Gendron.  Tremont Row also no longer exists. Here is where it was:

This area is in the Sculley Square area that was removed for Government Center. A portion of Boston Common and the State House can be seen in the top left of the map for reference.

The Frazers in 1896

This was the year that George William Frazer was born. At this time, James was listed as a grocer. I would think that the 1997 Directory would better reflect what James was doing in 1996. There are two entries:

My guess is that James A had two jobs. The first one just appears to list the work place. The second entry lists his house. I do think that I recall James being called a tea dealer. Perhaps he bought and sold tea at 1971 Washington Street.

Looks like my guess was wrong. Here is the 1896 Directory:

This shows that there were two James A Frazers. Thankfully, the Boston Athenaeum web site has many Boston City Directories. I wonder if these two James A Frazers knew each other?

Summary and Conclusions

  • I have taken a look at some of the early years of my Frazer and Clarke great-grandparents.
  • I had trouble using one facial recognition program. It didn’t seem very accurate.
  • I looked at the studios where my great-grandparents had their photos taken.
  • I also looked at City Directories locating where James Archibald Frazer lived right before and after he married Margaret Clarke in 1892.
  • Using street maps, I was able to virtually walk the streets of 1890’s Boston with my ancestors.
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Using Visual Phasing

I did some visual phasing for Jane and her two siblings. Now Jane wants to see how the visual phasing can be used.

Mr Gray’s 8.5 cM Match

Jane’s first question came from a Mr Gray. He matched Jane and her two siblings at about 8.5 cM. Jane had this conundrum:

For me the match points to Beckham, for Heather it points to Beckham but for Alex it points to Hamilton. Unless it is on Mum’s side as indicated by Jackson for all three of us, but then why wouldn’t Mum share DNA with Mr. Gray?

Here is the right side of Jane’s Chromosome 2 Map. Jane is in the middle bar and her maternal side is on the top bar.

Here is where Jane matches Mr. Gray:

The answer for this one is that this is not a real match. Jane’s mother has tested and Jane has two sets of phased results based on her mother’s results. I ran Mr. Gray against Jane’s paternal and maternal kit and got no results. This means that the match is not real. Different analyses have been done for the chances of a certain size match being real or not. Here is one from Roberta Estes:

These studies seem to show that there is about a 50% chance of a 7 cM match being real. This goes up to a 66% chance of being real for an 8.5 cM match. It looks like Mr Gray fell into that 34% range. The only other possibility is that Jane’s mother could have had a false negative match with Mr. Gray. All in all, I would say that these results would be inconclusive. For me, I tend to say if there is no match on the two phased kits, then there is no match.

Second Example: An Adoptee at 23andme

Only Jane and her mom tested at 23andme. Here is how the adoptee matched Jane:

Chromosome 1:     108 to 151     26 cM

Chromosome 2:     225 to 230     8 cM

Chromosome 3:     104 to 145     41 cM

Chromosome 17     5.7 to 9.3      9 cM

By looking at the Visual Phasing Spreadsheet, Jane deduced that this was on her Beckham Line:

Jane is in the middle bar. The bottom of that bar is her paternal side where Bekham is in blue. I assume that Jane’s mother did not match this adoptee at 23andme.

I have Jane’s Chromosome 2 above where she matches Beckham between 225 and 230 on her paternal side.

The match is significant for Jane as the  match between 104 and 155 goes through her maternal crossover at position 110M. That would confirm that this is a paternal side match on Beckham.

Here is Chromosome 17:

It looks like I had trouble identifying the maternal grandparents, but Jane matches this adoptee in her paternal Beckham region. So I would agree with Jane that this match is on her Beckham side. It would help if this adoptee uploads his/her DNA results to gedmatch.com.

Peggy’s Maternal Match on Chromosome 13

Jane reports these results for Peggy’s matches to her and her siblings:

Heather     74 to 103     31.5 cM

Jane          74 to 91       14 cM

Alex – no DNA

Without looking at Jane’s map, it appears that Jane should have a maternal crossover at around 91M.

Jane has a maternal crossover at 90 on the map where her DNA goes from Adair to Jackson. Alex is on the top row. He has a large maternal Jackson segment which explains why he has no match with Peggy. Jane has determined correctly that this match is along the line of her maternal Adair grandmother.

A Paternal Hillock Match on Chromosome 2

This match has a similar pattern to the previous one. Here Hillock matches:

Jane     40 to 79         41 cM

Alex      119 to 208      8.4 cM

Heather – no DNA

Two siblings match Hillock and one does not. However, in this case, the two siblings match at different locations on Chromosome 2.

Jane again is shown on the middle bar. The paternal side is on the bottom where she matches on her Hamilton grandfather. The match with Alex on the top shows that he should be matching on the Beckham paternal grandmother. However, this is a small match. It is time to check Alex’ paternal phased kit against Hillock.

I forgot that I had lowered the threshold and was surprised to come up with this result:

The location of this match is within the orange Hamilton segment for Alex’ top bar. The match that Jane reported for Alex should have been 199-208 (unphased). That means that my red circle above on Alex’ bar above is not correct.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Jane is fortunate to have a mother whose DNA could be tested. This gives her paternal and maternal matches for Jane and her two siblings.
  • It is important to know first whether the match is on the maternal or paternal side.
  • If there is no maternal or paternal match, I consider that to not be a match.
  • Jane’s conclusions appear to be correct as far as on which grandparent line her matches are on. However, it is important to make sure that the position numbers of the matches are correct to match up with the right grandparent.

 

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Ronda’s Ellis DNA

I noted a new match for my mother in law, Joan and her sister Elaine at Gedmatch recently. Here is the match between Ronda and Joan:

Here is how Ronda and Elaine match:

This shows 3.5 generations to a common ancestor. That would typically mean that Elaine and Ronda are 2nd cousins, once removed. Ronda tested at Ancestry, so I looked for a 2nd or third cousin there and couldn’t find Ronda. Ancestry has Elaine and Ronda as 4th cousins by DNA for some reason.

Ronda clearly shows at Ancestry as a 2nd cousin once removed to Elaine. Elaine tested at Ancestry, but Joan did not. Here is a record of the common ancestors:

This photo was from Ronda’s tree but originally posted by someone named Richard.

Ronda is a Great Match

Ronda makes a great DNA match for several reasons:

  1. She comes from a line that is very prolific. James Henry Ellis had 12 children if I counted them right. Imagine if he had two children and one of those had two children through the generations down to today. If there was just one descendant left today, there wouldn’t be other 2nd cousins that had their DNA tested, so there would be no 2nd cousin matches on that line. However, there were a lot of children and a lot of those children had a lot of children. Out of those descendants, some had their DNA tested.
  2. Ronda has a tree at Ancestry and tested there.
  3. Ronda uploaded her results to Gedmatch.com, so I can tell how and where the matches are.
  4. Ronda only descends from one Ellis Line. Descending from more than one line can make things complicated. She also does not appear to match Elaine on other ancestral lines which could make things tricky. One exception is the MacArthur Line which I discuss later on.

A Few Mistakes at AncestryDNA

Ancestry made a few mistakes. The first one was that they have Elaine and Ronda as 4th cousins by DNA. This is a good reason to upload your DNA to gedmatch to get a second opinion. Ancestry has a program that removes some of the DNA matches that are too “matchy”. This works sometimes, but I don’t think it worked so well in this case.

The second mistake had to do with the program that Ancestry used to interpret the family trees. Ronda wrote down that James Henry Ellis married Clarinda Gorrill Ellis. In the tree I had for Elaine, I had that she married Clarinda Gorrill. Ancestry’s computer program was not smart enough to figure out that these two women were the same person. As a result, Ancestry has that Ronda and Elaine are 3rd cousins once removed based on the parents of Clarinda Gorrill. Technically, that is not correct, they are just 2nd cousins once removed.

The Ellis DNA Project

Here is what I have for the existing Ellis DNA Project:

These are people that descend from William Ellis born 1771. Robert and Agnes are there twice because they descend from two different children of William Ellis. Elaine, Joan and Melissa are in green currently on the James Henry Ellis Line. That is where I will add Ronda.

Ships Passing in the Night

However, when I compare Ronda to Melissa at Gedmatch, I get a very small match:

It looks like they are 6th cousins, once removed by DNA. That made me think I had the wrong Ronda. However, it may be that Ronda and Melissa don’t match very well. AncestryDNA seems to show the same issue in their DNA Circle (shown below).

Here is Elaine at the top. Ronda is bottom left and Melissa is on the bottom right with one other person. There is no line connecting Ronda and Melissa at AncestryDNA. That helps confirm that I am on the right track and that I have the right Ronda. Ronda had DNA that matched with Elaine and Joan and Melissa had different DNA that matched with Elaine and Joan.

Here is how Ronda, Elaine and Melissa are related:

Note that Eva Ellis was born in 1895 – 21 years after George. This is one case where triangulation of the DNA matches would not work well. Elaine matches Melissa and Ronda, but Melissa and Ronda don’t match very well and not in the same area that Elaine matches Melissa and Ronda.

Let’s Work the DNA at Gedmatch

Ellis Autosomal Matrix

Here is how all the Ellis descendants match each other:

Here the distinction of the different branches are not as clear as one would like. That could be due to matches on different family lines. Also, I didn’t really need Robert as he is the son of Agnes. Agnes and Robert are in both the Mary Ann and Agnes Lines of Ellis.

Ronda and DNA Triangulation

I noted that Ronda would not triangulate within the James Henry Ellis Line, but I did run everyone against everyone else at Gedmatch:

I found one triangulation group (TG) there. Elaine matches Ronda, Ronda matches Margaret and Margaret matches Elaine. It looks like that hunk of DNA is pointing back to William Ellis from the 1700’s:

I do have a line in blue of the MacArthurs. However, I think that the common ancestor for that line goes back even further than the generation of William Ellis and Hannah Tawton, so I’ll say that this is Ellis DNA rather than MacArthur DNA. In the diagram above, Ronda is a third cousin twice removed to Margaret.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Ronda was a great Ellis match for Joan, my mother-in-law and her sister Elaine.
  • Ronda is a second cousin once removed to Elaine and Joan
  • Ronda is a third cousin with Melissa, but their shared DNA dropped off very quickly from their matches with Joan and Elaine.
  • Ronda triangulated with Elaine and Margaret. This appears to identify the DNA of William Ellis and Hannah Tawton from the late 1700’s
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My Grandmother’s Picture Book: Frazer, Clarke, McMaster and ?

This should be a different Blog as it will be more on the genealogical side. This is photo book that I recall from my childhood that my grandmother had. It has thick pages, a sort of velour cover with a fancy spring clasp on the right.

I got the idea for this Blog after hearing from Fred. Fred is third cousin on my Clarke Line. My grandmother’s mother was a Clarke. We have the same 2nd great grandparents by the name of Clarke and Spratt. Fred sent me this photo recently.

This was from a small tin type photo that Fred had enlarged and enhanced. According to Fred, “…that appears to me to be a picture of Catherine Clark McMaster, Violet McMaster, George McMaster and Margaret Clark”. This reminded me of the photo book my grandmother had. It had larger photos in the back, but the smaller tin types in the back. I believe that Violet is Fred’s grandmother. He supposed that the photo was taken about 1888. That is interesting, because that would be about four years before Margaret Clarke married my great-grandfather. Margaret probably arrived in the Boston area around 1884 from Ireland at about the age of 18. It would be interesting to find out where she lived before she got married.

The Photo Book

Although I said that this book was my grandmother’s, it has people in it that lived before she was born. The photos seem to favor the Clarke side of the family. My grandmother lost her mother in 1902 when my grandmother was about 8 years old. I’ll try to reproduce the photo book as well as I can.

Page 1

I almost missed the first photo. This photo slipped out of the page easily. Under the photo on the page were the initials Raa. I don’t know if this is random or significant. I might assume that this person was important, being on page 1 of the book. A wild guess would be William McMaster, but I would have to compare this with a known photo.

Here is a photo of William from Fred’s sister’s tree:

This photo is a 3/4 view, so it is difficult to compare. I can’t tell for sure that the two are not the same person.

[Edit: January 2020. I believe that this man is William McMaster 1859-1899. He married Catherine Clarke, the sister of my great-grandmother. This was sent to me by Fred who is a descendant.]

Probably taken around 1882. Reverse of picture indicates that they were engaged “about 1881” and married October 5, 1882.

I take by the note that this is Catherine Clarke in the photo also. This may help in identifying other photos.

Fred also sent me this photo:

This is a better version of the photo above. Fred also sent me a photo I show later in the Blog:

These are William’s children: George, Bert, Fanny and Violet.

While I am off my grandmother’s book, I should bring up this photo which perhaps was in the book:

This is a photo of James Archibald Frazer. I had previously had thought that this was taken after his wife had died and Catherine Clarke’s husband William McMaster had died. However, I now see that James looks too young for that. Also this doesn’t look like the Catherine in the photo above.

Here is a side by side look:

Maybe? Another cosideration is that Catherine married in 1882. James married in 1892. Perhaps the photo on the left is how Catherine looked 10 years later when James married?

Page 2

 

The pages are about 8 inches by 10 inches and the photos are smaller. I’ll try to scan a smaller area.

This is my grandmother’s mother. I am not sure if this would be before, during or after she was married.

Page 3

My guess is that the first two photos could be wedding photos.

PAGE 4

I’m not sure if this is the same woman as the one in the photo from Fred. It looks like I caught a thread of the book in the scan. I know that there was an older Aunt Celia in the area, a sister Celia, Catherine and Margaret. I also thought that there may have been a sister Jane.

Page 5

Margaret again.

Page 6

James Archibald Frazer again. Looks like this could use sume touching up. I haven’t enhanced any of these photos.

Page 7

I’m guessing one of the Clarkes.

Page 8

Margaret Clarke Frazer

Page 9

George William Frazer and her sister ( my grandmother) Marion Margaret Frazer. I seem to remember a large colorized version of this or a similar photo. I don’t know where it ended up.

Page 10

I did enhance this a bit. Another shot of Margaret. My grandmother lost her mother at about age 8, so I’m sure these photos were important to her.

Page 11

I was able to slip this photo out and add a little constrast. My mother’s brother George William was born 1896, so that would put this photo at 1897.

Page 12

This photo was taken at the Elmer Chickering Studio at 21 West St., Boston. I think the original is a bit clearer.

Page 13

Great grandma is stylin’ in this photo.

Page 14

My guess is that these are the same two children that Fred sent me in his tintype picture. If Fred’s photo was 1888, perhaps this was 1889.

Page 15

If I had to guess, I would say another one of the Clarke sisters or Aunt Celia? I quite like the composition whoever it is. It reminds me somewhat of a colonial painting.

Page 16

Again, I am going with my standard Clarke female guess. The man to the left is perhaps a husband? He looks as if he could be a brother, but I have no record of a brother visiting or living here.

Page 17

I’m tempted to call this one the serious baby. I can only assume that this was the baby of one of the Clarke sisters.

Page 18

.

Here is an unusual photo. I might guess that she would have been a maid or nanny for my great grandfather James Frazer. I note that the photo was taken at a different studio. This woman has what appears to be a wedding ring. She is holding a book and has her finger inside the pages as if to say that she is educated. I can’t make out the name of the book except for the word, “power”.

Page 19

I am a bit past halfway in the book.

My guess for this person is Richard Frazer born 1875. According to my web page, ” He married Elizabeth Lenore Rice, daughter of Ivory Fogg Rice and Mary McCartee, on 12 May 1902 at Portsmouth, New Hampshire.” Note that the photo was taken in Portsmout, NH. This could have possibly been a wedding photo.

Page 20 and 21

Page 20 is the same as page 3. Page 21 is the same as page 2. These are the two photos that I supposed to be wedding photos.

Page 22

Can’t have too many photos of one’s great grandfather.

Page 23

Here I’m leaning toward business associate. Here are a few guesses from James’ Naturalization papers dated 18 October 1905:

Page 24

This person is a bit of a mystery. The best clue is that he had the photo taken in Franklin, MA. He also appears a bit older than some of the men in the other photos.

Page 25

Page 25 is the same as page 6.

Page 26

No idea. This person bears no resemblance to some of the others. He appears to be wearing a military uniform.

Page 27

Here there is a clue. The photo was not taken in Boston, but Gorham, NH. All we have to do is search in Gorham, NH for a relative. A search for Gorham shows it to be just North of Mount Washington.

Page 28

I’m hoping that someone will come accross this Blog and tell me who some of these people are. This is the studio where the black woman had her photo taken.

Page 29

I am associating the curley hair with the Clarkes.

Page 30

I think this is a boy? The light hair could go with the guy in the military suit, but there was some light hair in the Frazer family also. I can see a cross on this little person. I also have a photo of George McMaster (brother of Violet) that looks a little similar to this person. I believe that Violet’s granddaughter sent this to me.

I suppose that it might even be possible to look at where each of these studios were to see if that made a difference compared to where some of these people may have lived.

[Edit: January 2020] I see in my McMaster File, I have this photo labeled: George, Herbert, Violet McMaster. I also have the following photo in my McMaster file:]

This photo is named George, Bert, Fanny, Violet. These were all children of William McMaster and Catherine Clarke.

That was the last of the larger photos. Following this are six pages with four smaller photos each in them.

Page 31A

Do I have relatives in Taylorville, Il?

Page 31B

This photo appears to be trimmed down. I can’t tell where the photo was taken.

Page 31C

This is the first tintype. These tintypes give an older look to the photos.

Page 31D

At first, I thought these two were my great grandfather James Archibald Frazer, but now I’m not so sure. I’ll say it is him with his hair part inversed by the tintype

Page 32A

This photo appeared to have been trimmed down from something else. Also a tintype.

Page 32B

Apparently these tintypes are a reverse image. Here is the flip side:

So apparently a Toronto relative. Could this be a Frazer relative?

Page 32C

Another trimmed-down tintype of 2 cute girls – assumed sisters.

Page 32D

Here is a non-tinype among the tintypes. A distinguished self-assured looking couple in Belfast. I’m not aware of any Belfast connection in my ancestry which makes me wonder who these two are.

Page 33

Here is what a typical tintype page looks like in the book:

 

Page 33A

I just need a program with facial recognition.

Page 33B

Page 33C

The guy bottom left looks like the same person that was on P 23. My guess is the best man at the wedding. I would need to find Parish records to find out that type of information.The other two appear to be Margaret Clarke and my great-grandfather, James Frazer.

Page 33D

This appears to be my great-grandmother on the left wearing a Wonder Woman belt. I had thought the woman on the right looked familiar, but now I’m not sure.

Page 34A

These look to me to be two sisters.

Page 34C

34B is missing.

Does she look like the woman on the left above?

Page 34D

Page 35A

Page 35B

Photos like this and the Belfast and Toronto photos raise quite a few questions. In a record I saw recently, my great-grandfather was a tea dealer. Could this photo have something to do with that? This was another non-tintype photo.

Page 35C

Looks to me like Margaret Clarke.

Page 35D

The same as 31C

Page 36A

Is this the same woman as 34A? Perhaps with her husband?

Page 36B

Somebody’s pride and joy.

Page 36C

Same as 33D

Page 36D

Summary and Conclusions

  • A major reason for me putting these photos out there is that I hope that some people will recognize who these are
  • These photos can spur research or direct research. For example, what are my Illinois, Belfast and Edinburgh connections?
  • Taking the photos out and looking at where they were taken was helpful
  • My guess is that most of the photos were from around the time when my great-grandmother Margaret Clarke was in the US. This would have been between about 1884 and 1902 when she died.
  • I have definitely increased the number of photos of people that I know and that I do not know.
  • The photos help to give a picture of the people that my great grandparents knew, even if I don’t know who they are.
  • A next step may be to sort the unknown people by those that look most like each other.
  • I also want to look into facial recognition software.