I have had a few emails from Joanna about Penny. Joanna is interested in Penny’s DNA results as both Joanna and Penny are on the James Line of the Frazers of Northern Roscommon, Ireland. Joanna tells me that Penny “…is descended from William Fitzgerald Frazer of Sacramento – if you remember he is my great grandfather Thomas Henry Frazer’s oldest brother”.
Some James Line Frazer Genealogy
Penny is on the bottom left of the chart. Clyde and Carol were all alone on the Frazer/Grant line but now they have Penny. Joanna is about the middle of the chart in red. If all has gone according to the chart, then Penny is a 3rd cousin to Clyde and a 3rd cousin once removed to Joanna.
Penny’s DNA and the James Line Frazers
Joanna has given me permission to look at her DNA results at AncestryDNA. This what Joanna’s match to Penny looks like:
Ancestry is sometimes conservative with their predicted relationship based on the DNA vs. the actual, so this sounds about right.
As mentioned above, Penny’s closest relative in the Frazer DNA Project is Clyde. This is what Penny’s and Clyde’s DNA match looks like at Gedmatch.com:
This represents the DNA that Penny and Clyde both got from their shared ancestors William Fitzgerald Frazer and Margaret Graham. Both segments could be from one or the other ancestor or one segment could be Frazer and another could be Graham DNA. I say this because if both segments that were passed down were Graham DNA, then Clyde and Penny would not be matching others in the Frazer DNA – at least not on the Frazer side. An MRCA of 4.5 could be a 3rd cousin once removed by DNA. This just means that Penny and Clyde share a little less than the average amount of DNA for 3rd cousins.
Penny’s DNA and All the Roscommon-Descended Frazers
Here I have sorted the matches into Archibald Line and James Line. This shows that most of Penny’s matches are on the James Line side. This makes sense given the genealogy we have.
Penny’s DNA in the James Line Group
Here is a larger view of Penny in just a portion of the James Line. Here Penny matches others by DNA in the Archibald b. about 1792 Branch except for Charlotte, Mary and Madeline.
This does not mean that Charlotte, Madeline and Mary should be kicked off the Archibald line as Madeline has good matches with Jonathan, Janet, Betty and Clyde. I checked Penny for triangulation in the James Line group, but didn’t see any obvious triangulation groups.
Penny’s Matches with Joanna and Janet
Here is the match that Penny has with Joanna as seen in Gedmatch. Penny has the exact same match with Joanna’s sister Janet, but not with Jonathan.
I mention this because I have done some Chromosome Mapping for Joanna and her family. Here is Chromosome 15:
This shows that Joanna and Janet have a full dose of Frazer on their Paternal side. Jonathan is about 1/3 Frazer and 2/3 Seymore on the Paternal side of his Chromosome 15. Note the CY on the Map. This is for Charlotte who also matches Joanna and Janet on Chromosome 15. Charlotte descends from the McPartlands of North Roscommon. Their ancestor Owen McPartland married an Ann Frazer who could have been born around 1830.
Triangulation with Charlene, Penny, Joanne and Janet
We don’t have triangulation with known trees, but we do have triangulation with unknown trees. By unknown, I mean that we don’t know how the trees connect to our Frazer trees. My most recent Blog on the McPartland connection is here. Based on this triangulation, one scenario could be that Ann Frazer b. about 1830, could have been the daughter of Archibald b. about 1792. Making this assumption, this could be how the Triangulation Group (TG) plays out:
Adding Speculation to Speculation – My McMaster Line
In my previous Blog on the McPartland connection, I showed this TG:
Now what if Margaret Frazer was a brother to Archibald Frazer b. around 1792? That would move the left side of my old TG on Chromosome 9 up a generation. I do that in part to fit the dates. Here is what I come up with:
Charlene is a key player in all of this. She is in a TG with Sharon, Paul, Karen and Chris in purple and in a TG with Penny, Joanna and Janet in yellow. This is the best explanation I have at this time. Hey, all these people had to come from somewhere. And all their DNA had to come from somewhere. This is one explanation. It fits the McPartlands into the Frazer tree and some of my McMaster ancestors into the Frazer tree at the same time.
Checking the Purple TG9
When I check how Paul matches Sharon, Charlene, Karen and Chris, this is what I get:
This means that there are actually 2 TGs here. One is with Paul, Sharon and Charlene and one is with Paul, Sharon, Karen and Chris. Still, the overall effect is the same. The common ancestor as per my diagram would be the elder Archibald Frazer b. 1751. So that goes back quite a way.
Summary and Conclusions
- I believe that Penny’s DNA results clearly confirm that she is in the James Line of Frazers
- Charlotte, Madeline and Mary seem to show less than average DNA matches for their relationships within the Archibald (b. about 1792) Branch.
- I used Penny’s TG with Charlene, Joanna and Janet to come up with a proposed McPartland tree
- I then used TGs with Paul, my sister Sharon, Charlene, Chris and Karen to come up with a Frazer/McMaster Tree. Actually, I already had the McMaster/Frazer tree and wasn’t sure where it fit in. I had already assumed based on previous X Chromosome analysis and other factors that this tree should be on the James Line.
- The tree I drew fits the information that I have now. Further testing may further support or disprove this theory.