Hartley DNA & Genealogy

I was recently looking at my family’s DNA matches and came upon a possible Common Ancestor between my sister Lori and Holly:

The second generation from the top seems odd as there is a Joseph born in 1771 and a John born in 1825. Here is a summary of my tree at Ancestry:

I see two other trees at Ancestry with similar information. I would like to say that Holly and Lori are not likely connected in the way Ancesty has them.

Holly’s Tree

I’ll try to build out Holly’s Hathaway Line to see what I can see. Holly’s line goes to her maternal grandfather:

This is not much to go on. I am guessing that Adiel could be this person:

The people at the top right should not show as living, so I corrected that:

Here is the family in Wareham in 1870:

Here is a record that could explain some of the confusion:

Here is John Hathaway’s marriage record. It appears that his father’s first name was David and his mother’s last name was Hathaway. However, the Hathaway could be the wife’s maiden name. The suggestion for John’s father makes more sense than the common ancestor listed earlier in the Blog:

David had two Hathaways for parents.

I can get the tree back to 1690:

Do Lori and Holly share DNA from Arthur from 1690? Possibly. But possibly from some other ancestor in colonial Massachusetts. Interestingly enough, I already have an Arthur Hathaway chart:

I have had trouble placing Ned, and one place he fits in is on my Hathaway tree. We show as 10th cousins! Holly should be in here somewhere also. Here I have added Holly on the left side of the chart:

Holly and Lori should be 8th cousins.

Other Hathaway Connections

I do have this chart of DNA matches going back to Simon Hathaway who was born in 1711:

I have circled my family and two of my father’s first cousins who have also tested Ancestry. These two cousins also have other Hathaway connections which makes the DNA comparisons tricky.

Summary and Conclusions

• My sister’s connection to Holly as shown by Ancestry appears to be wrong
• The genealogical connection between Holly and Lori go back to Arthur Hathaway who was born in 1690
• It is difficult to tell whether the DNA connection between Holly and Lori is from Arthur Hathaway. I have not found other connections, but they may be there.

After perusing AncestryDNA matches lately, it seems that I am showing some potential Common Ancestors for my family.

Heidi and Chris

This match with my sister Heidi is on our maternal side:

Chris and Heidi show as potential fourth cousins. I have Lydia in my onlline Nicholson genealogy:

Bernard also shows up. However, so far, I show no matches from that line on my combined DNA match/Nicholson Genealogy Chart:

For some reason, I have Henry Nicholson with no descendants, then William Nicholson. Let’s do a quick check on Chris’ genealogy. I was able to find Gladys in the 1911 Census:

Unfortunatley, Driver was transcribed as the less likely Drivas.

Here I have added Chris to the DNA/Genealogy Tree and taken out Henry Nicholson:

Chris and Heidi correctly show as fourth cousins. This fills in a gap on the Nicholson tree.

More on the Henry Nicholson Line

Perhaps I took Henry out too soon. I see that Heidi shows DNA matches to two descendants of Henry Nicholson at Ancestry ThruLines:

Checking the Genealogy for Nancy

Nancy does show her maternal grandmother as Mary Ellen Nicholson:

Nancy also has her grandmother moving to New Jersey:

Here is Warren to the West of New York City:

I’m too lazy to build a tree for Nancy, so I will try to build down from Henry Nicholson and his son Walter. Here is the 1891 Census:

Here we have 5 year old Clara. I am guessing that Joseph was perhaps out of the house or away then? He would be about 17 in 1891. For some reason, I don’t see Joseph in the 1881 Census:

I’m guessing that this is why I did not add Henry earlier. That means that I do need to create a tree for Nancy. Turns out I already did:

Here my tree gets away from what Ancestry ThruLines had. I will skip Nancy for now as I cannot clearly see how she connects to my Nicholson Tree.

A Tree for Louie

My top down analysis showed that Walter did have a Clara Nicholson. I’m happy to borrow from this Tree at Ancestry:

Here are Clara and Samuel in 1911:

Now I just need to add Henry Nicholson and Louie into my Chart:

It took me a while to get this chart right. It is still a mystery as to how Nancy fits in at this time.

Summary and Conclusions

• I added two new collateral ancestors to my Nicholson DNA/Genealogy Chart. These were Lydia Nicholson and Henry Nicholson
• I redicovered why I had questions about connecting Nancy’s and my genealogies
• It would be interesting to see if Louie and Nancy match each other at Ancestry.

Sheryl is an important DNA match at Ancestry. That is because she is a shared match with my father’s cousin Joyce.

Joyce and Kristen

Sheryl is a shared match with Joyce and Kristen and we know what their relationship is:

Joyce and Kristen are 2nd cousins twice removed. Their common ancestors are Greenwood Hartley and Ann Emmet. Greenwood was from Trawden, Lancashire and Ann was from Bacup, Lancashire. That means that Sheryl, as a shared match, probably has ancestry that connects her to Lancashire. I previously mentioned Sheryl in this Blog from 2019.

Sheryl and Joyce

This possible connection goes back three more generations and is worth studying. I know that on my side, Greenwood Hartley’s father was Robert Hartley, but before that I am unsure.

Sheryl’s Genealogy

I started a tree for Sheryl previously. Here is the part I would like to look more closely at:

John Bracewell born 1834 emmigrated from Engalnd to the US. It is often difficult to trace a person who was born in one country and moved to another one.

Here is a bio for John:

I question the part about him being from Yorkshire. I think that Lancashire could be more likely. My ancestors who lived in Colne were very close to the Yorkshire border. Also he could not have removed to Illinois in 1836 if he came to the US in 1850. Here is a record of L.M. Bracewell’s death stating that his father was born in Colne:

John Bracewell (1834-1910)

We know that John ended up in Iowa:

Here is John and family in 1885 in Iowa:

From what I can tell, John’s wife Susan was born in Tennesee. Here is John in 1900:

Here he is listed as a capitalist. He shows that he has been naturalized and that he emmigrated in the year 1850.

This transcription appears to be important:

It is likely that the informant for this record would have known about John’s parents. It is likely that the informant was John’s wife Susan.

Here is the marriage record for John’s parents:

Here is Barnoldswick:

Interestingly, the write-up says that Barnoldswick was in the historic West Riding of Yorkshire.

Here is an interesting record from 1850 in Illinois:

Here we have John’s mother Mary with three sons under the head of Hartley Bracewell and apparently his wife Margaret and son. The last piece of the puzzle would be the 1841 Census for England.

The last column is interesting as it shows that all but the father John Bracewell were born outside of Lancashire. this is the Census for Hey Mile, Foulridge, Colne.

I assume that Hey and Hey Mile are similar locations.

All the pieces fit together – even the shipping record:

John Bracewell and Mary Starkie

These two were alive during the 1841 Census. However, I assume that John died before Mary moved to the US with her children. My tree has John born in 1778. However, the 1841 Census says that John was 45 at the time. That would put his birth closer to 1796. Due to the way the Census was taken, he could have been as old as 49 in 1841 or been born as early as 1792.

It looks like John Bracewell was a popular name:

My best guess would be that John’s father was Henry Bracewell. Looking back at the 1841 Census, the eldest male child was Henry – perhaps named for John’s father. The only John, father of John was in Manchester which is out of range for where I am looking.

Here is Sheryl’s Tree:

Sheryl stops at John Bracewell and Mary Starkie. I think the couple is right. I don’t think that John was born 8 March 1778 as Sheryl has.

I’ll update my tree:

Henry Bracewell

Here is my guess for a marriage for Henry and Jane:

Henry and Jane had quite a few children – which may help account for the DNA match:

I’m curious about the Hartley Bracewell, as there was also a Hartley Bracewell at the wedding of Henry Bracewell and Jane. This name also suggests to me that I am on the right track and have the right family as there is a Hartley Bracewell in the 1850 Census for Illinois (see above).

Ancestry Common Ancestors Wrong

At this point, I believe that I have proven the Ancestry Common Ancestors to be wrong:

So am I disappointed? Not really. I would rather know the actual tree of the person that I match. That means that the tree I had from my 2019 Blog mentioned above cannot be right:

Next Steps

I can still look into Henry Bracewell. This appears to be Henry and his wife Jane in the 1841 Census:

This couple was living to quite an old age for the day. They appear to have some of their grandchildren which later went to the US. Here is Salterforth – SE of Barnoldswick:

We can get some important information from the Census. First, Henry and Janae were not born in Yorkshire. I take that to mean they were born in Lancashire. My best guess for the father of Henry Bracewell is William Bracewell.

The son of Jonathan would have been 90 or 91 in 1841, so not a good match. Henry Brasewell is born in the wrong area. Also the place name Hey has already come up in this Blog.

William Bracewell and Mary

I’ll take a shot at this couple and then I should be done with the Blog. This marriage appears to be too early:

This marriage would have been about 25 years before Henry was born, so it is possible. Another possibility is that the marriage could have taken place in Yorkshire. The records above are just from Lancashire.

Here are some children of William Bracewell in Lancahsire after 1738:

There is a lot going on here. First, I don’t know where Law or Law Township is. Blacko is to the West of Foulridge. It is difficult to tell how many families we are dealing with. The Inghamit baptisms could be from a separate family. Also the Betty family is different. She is in there, because I was looking for all children of William. The earlier baptisms tended to omit the mother’s name.

A Possible Pilling Connection?

My second great-grandparents were Greenwood Hartley and Ann Emmet. Ann Emmet was from Bacup. I have not seen in Sheryl’s genealogy anyone in the Bacup area. That leaves the Trawden area. The two main lines from the Colne area are Hartley and Pilling.

My understanding is that Sarah Pilling above was likely a single mother. That means that we would not know the true father of Greenwood Pilling. That is one possibility for a connection between Joyce and Sheryl. Shackleton is also a possible connection. I am not sure of the Baldwin connection above. Also I don’t have a last name for the mother of Nancy Shackleton.

Summary and Conclusions

• I have proved that the connection to Hartley at Ancestry is based on a genealogy that is not correct
• I was able to create a much better geenalogy for Sheryl going back to the 1700’s
• I have not shown where the connection is. However, the connection seems to be from the Colne area. That means that the connection is somewhere on the ancestors of Hartley or Pilling
• More work is needed to look into these proposed connections and genealogies at Ancestry and elsewhere.
• Once we have enough good trees, we should be able to triangulate either a genealogy or place where our common ancestors lived.

A match recently showed up for me with Richard. I have been in touch with Richard before who is a match to me at AncestryDNA also:

Here is my match with Richard at MyHeritage:

I have written other Blogs about Richard. Here is one where I mention two other Blogs. Richard’s genealogy and  DNA match give evidence of our common descent from Phillip Frazer as shown in the image above.

 Richard and DNAPainter

I have not added Richard to my DNAPainter profile. Here is Richard added to my Chromosome 7:

The match is small and does not show up at Gedmatch where Richard also has his DNA results. However, the matches are those that I have as being from the Philip Frazer Line.

Here is my match with Richard on Chromosome 17:

Here Rihard overlaps with his brother Barry and also with Michael whose ancestry goes back to Richard Frazer. It is possible that the connection could be from the father of Richard and Philip who was Archibald Frazer.

My Philip Line DNA/Genealogy Tree

Here is part of the tree as I have it:

Richard and Barry are in the green area. I cut off much of my own line. Due to intermarriage and some missing wives’ names, it can be difficult to trace the DNA. For example, my ancestor James Frazer married his cousin Violet Frazer who was the daughter of Richard Frazer, the brother of Philip Frazer. Also I have no wives’ names for Philip or Richard.

My Sister Lori and Barry

My sister Lori has a good match with Richard’s brother Barry:

Here are Lori and Barry’s shared matches at AncestryDNA:

A blue dot means I probably have not looked at these matches.

This is how Lori and Barry match at Gedmatch:

Here is Barry added to Lori’s DNAPainter Profile:

Some Philip Frazer Genealogy

The genealogy goes back to the 1700’s and is a bit unclear. I have this 1950’s genealogy:

I clearly descend from James and Violet Frazer. Violet was a daughter of Richard Frazer. The above genealogy has Philip and George as the sons of Philip. My best guess is that James was a third son of Philip.

Here is the Tithe Applotment for Derrycastle (or Derrycashel):

Here we have listed George, Philip and James Frazer. My theory is that these three were sons of Philip Frazer. They may or may not be listed in their birth order. Ancestry gives the date of this record as 1833, but I am not sure of the actual date of the record.

Here is what I have at my web page:

Philip was a farmer probably in Derrycashel. He had three sons. The birth order is probably backwards above. He was born probably between 1751 and 1776. By the Tithe Applotment around 1833, he had probably passed away but his three children were still living in the area. As we have no further information about George other than a death date, he may have not married or if he did may not have had children.

I know that my 3rd great-grandfather James Frazer lived in this house in Derrycashel:

Perhaps his father Philip also lived there. George died in 1831. That means that the Tithe Applotment was before that time or that the Applotment listed the land as being still under George’s name. My 2nd great-grandfather George Wiliiam Frazer may have been named after this George.

Philip. Son of Philip and the 1830 Freeholder’s List

Joanna, a Frazer researcher living in Scotland has this document on her Frazer Tree at Ancestry:

This is an extract from the Roscommon Leitrim Gazette from September 1830 listing a Philip Frazer as a freeholder in Smutterna and Aughrefinnegan. This is interesting as it was unusual for people to own land during this time.

Here is Smutternaugh:

Smutternaugh is a few townlands away from Derrycashel.

Here is what I have on my old web page on the Frazers:

I believe that Anne was another daughter born to Philip in 1833.  These children appear to have been baptized in Kilmactranny Parish. This is in Sligo County. The Kilmactranny records have missiong information which would account for why there is no record for Anne Frazer.

I am trying to think of a scenario that would have Philip being a freeholder in Smutternaugh and also being a farmer in Derrycashel. One possibility would be that it was Philip the father who owned the land in Smutternaugh and the children lived in Derrycashel. The question would be: why did the land not go to the children?

More on Freeholders

I wrote to Frazer researcher Joanna and she was able to give additional insight to the Freeholder’s List. I think that Joanna was quoting here from an article:

“If your ancestor was a substantial small farmer or merchant, he was likely to have been a freeholder, especially if your ancestral farm or property holding (albeit rented) dates back to pre-famine times.

If your ancestor was a tenant he may have been a freeholder depending on the type of lease he had with his landlord.  

• • A freehold lease could be for one or more “lives” – his own life or for the lives of other people named in the lease. A lease of “3 lives” was a common type of lease, especially in the 1700s. It lasted for as long as the 3 people named in it remained alive. Generally, the others named on the lease were sons, sons-in-law, or “partners” (in-laws) sharing the land collectively. 

If your ancestor was part of a collective or shared interest in a farm of

land that was a freehold worth a mere 40 shillings (£2) per annum above the rent, he could appear on freeholders lists for the period from 1796 to 1829 (when both Catholic and Protestant “40 shilling freeholders” qualified to vote).”

This was new information to me. I had thought that being a leaseholder and a freeholder were mutually exclusive. Now I see that is not the case.

Who Were the Three Smutternagh Frazers in the Freeholder’s List?

Joanna feels that the three Frazers listed in the Freehold list were related to each other and I agree with this.

PHILIP FRAZER

He is listed first. I do not know if this is significant. Joanna notes:

I have collected a few of these newspaper Freeholders lists and various petitions to Viscount Lorton,  and found that in 1843 Alexander and Edward L Frazer are living at Smutternagh. 

From this I take it that Philip was no longer living in Smtternagh. So if I have the genealogy right and the right Philip, this suggests that my ancestor could have been Philip of Smutternaugh. Smutternagh is an odd-sounding Townland. Here is a photo found on-line of Smutternagh:

My assumption is that the Philip in the Freeholder’s List is the son of Philip and brother of George and my ancestor James Frazer. It also appears that some time soon after 1830, Philip moved from Smutternagh to Derrycashel. This does not answer all the questions. Smutternagh would have been in Kilbryan Parish. Yet the baptisms for Philip’s children are recorded in the Kilmactranny Church in Sligo County. Perhaps Philip’s wife was from Kilmactranny.

One confusing thing about Philip is that I have two marriages for Philip:

Here I assume that the notation son of Phiip is an interpretation. However, from the above information, I assume that the elder Phiip remarried to Jane Johnston of Kilmactranny or that Philip, son of Philip married twice. The second record is a birth record, but presumes that Philip Frazer and Mary Taylor were married prior to the birth of Philip. However, at the time of the Tithe Applotment, I believe that there is only one Philip listed. This must have been Philip Junior.

ALEXANDER AND EDWARD FRAZER

Joanna writes:

Alexander could probably be Alexander Stinson Frazer, but Edward L Frazer cannot be his son Edward Lillie Frazer (not born until 1854) 

Here is my guess for Alexander and Edward:

At the top is Archibald Frazer who married Mary Lillie (or Lilly). I have Philip as son of Philip and brother of my ancestor James Frazer. I have Alexander Frazer bottom right of the image above. Then I have Edward as the brother of Alexander Frazer. That would be my best guess at this time. The freeholders in the list were probably two brothers and one cousin (Philip). It would seem to make more sense if these three Freeholders were all brothers, however, that does not seem to be the case.

I also note that these three likely Freeholders were likely around the same age. Alexander would have only been 24 in 1830, so quite young. Edward would have been 27. Philip would have been older as he had at least three children by 1830. If it was his father who married in 1818 and Philip Junior who married Mary Taylor and had a child Philip in 1825, then he could have been born around 1800. If it was Philip Junior who married Jane Johnston in 1818, he would have been born in the late 1700’s.

My notes for Edward say that he moved to the USA, but I don’t remember where I got that information. Perhaps the Edward Lillie born in 1854 was named for Alexander Stinson Frazer’s brother Edward L who moved away.

ARCHIBALD FRAZER

I left out Archibald Frazer from the 1830 Freeholder’s List. Joanna notes that Archibald is not mentioned in an 1843 Freeholder’s list for Smtternagh, but now Edward L Frazer is listed. Let’s go back to the tree:

Here there are two options. First the Archibald could be the one at the top. I note that his birth date cannot be correct as he would have been 12 at the birth of William. I’ll need to correct that. My second guess is that Archibald may have had a son born before William Frazer. This could have been another Archibald. The Father of the Archibald who married Ann Stinson was also Archibald. One tradition would be to name your first son after your father. Perhaps this first son Archibald passed away or otherwise left the scene between 1830 and 1843 and the land went to his brother Edward L.

Summary and Conclusions

• Richard’s posting of his DNA results at MyHeritage was helpful
• One match with Richard and Michael on Chromosome 17 appear to go back to Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly from around 1743
• A helpful document from that Joanna had indicated that one of my ancestors Philip Frazer may have lived in Smutteragh near Lough Key. This pushes back the likely location of my Frazer family by one generation
• My guess is that the three Freeholders listed in an 1830 Newspaper were Alexander and Archibald sons of Archibald Frazer and Stinson and Philip Frazer, son of Philip Frazer Senior – my ancestor.
•  One technique I use in my research is to try to tell a story based on what the facts appear to be saying. If the story makes sense, perhaps I have interpreted the facts correctly.
• I could further theorize that the Archibald who married Mary Lilly had land holdings or a lease for 3 generations. These three generations could have gone down to three of his granchildren: Philip, Alexander and Archibald. Archibald could have passed away and the land went to Edward L Frazer.
• This 1830 Frazer Freeholder List could use further analysis in the future.

MyHeritage recently came out with new Theories of Relativity. I’ll check out a few for my Mom.

Rita with Latvian Heritage

Here is the Theory:

I only see a partial tree for Rita:

The Theory follows the Spengel Line. I’ll just look at the Theory. The theory doesn’t check out according to my tree. In order for it to work, Sophia would have had to have married a Spengel after a Schwechheimer. However, my genealogy does not show that. I’ll pass on this Theory for now.

Mom and Malcolm

Malcolm is from the United Kingdom. Here is his tree:

The Theory connects Malcolm and my mother on his maternal side. The tree confusingly has a Gadd as the father as a Dodsworth. I will need to build my own tree at Ancestry to verify:

In 1891, Louisa was living with her widowed mather Emily in Nether Hallam, Sheffield, England. It appears that Louisa could have been from a second husband of Emily as the first two daughters on the Census have the surname of Green.

Next I need to make the connection from Lockwood to Dodworth. Two of the three trees at Ancestry have Emily Lockwook as the mosther of Louisa Dodwood:

The third tree does not give parents. I will make the assumption that Malcolm knew who his grandmother was.

Here is Emily Lockwood in the 1881 Census:

She was an unmarried file cutter living in Nether Hallam, Sheffied. There also was an Ellis family living next door. I was able to find a little more information at FamilySearch:

Here is St George:

So, I have a sort of a connection now.

My DNA/Genealogy Tree for Ellis

I have a short Ellis tree already:

After a little searching, I see that Derek is a match to my mom at AncestryDNA. . I’ll add in Emma’s Line.

That makes Malcolm a third cousin to my mother. It looks as if Emma Ellis Tattershall could have been named for her Aunt Emma who was 7 years older than her? I think I see a mistake in that Emma Ellis should not have a Tatershall in her name.

Adding the DNA Match to My Mother’s Profile

Here is where Malcolm and my mom match:

Here I have ‘painted’ Malcolms matches to my mom in orange:

These matches are in places where there were no previous matches. This is also the first maternal match my mother has on Chromosome 21.

Malcolm and my mom also have shared DNA matches with at least three other known Nicholson/Ellis descendants at MyHeritage.

When I show all my mother’s paternal and maternal DNA matches, the orange DNA from Ellis/Roebuck gets a bit lost:

Summary and Conclusions

• I didn’t follow through on the match with Rita. However, the fact that she has Latvian genealogy means that there must be a match somewhere.
• Often, the conclusions for the more obscure Theories of Relativity are wrong and need correcting
• In this case, the Theory lead me in the right direction toward Ellis/Roebuck DNA
• I was glad to add this DNA to my mother’s DNA profile