Category: DNA General

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Looking for Pilling Clusters at Ancestry

In this Blog, I would like to look for Pilling matches. I have a motive for this. Those who are descended just from Pilling will not be descended from Hartley. Theoretically, I could eliminate some of my matches from my Hartley ancestor search. As it is, when I look at many of my Hartley DNA matches, it seems like some of them could be Pilling relatives.

So as I think of the matches, it occurs to me that going forward in time from Mary Pilling, there would be matches that descend from Mary Pilling. However, going back from Mary Pilling, there should be no Hartley descendants that match us unless it is by coincidence. Hmmm…

Pilling Genealogy and ThruLines

I believe that my genealogy is right for Mary Pilling:

However, when I look at the ThruLines for my father’s 1st cousin Joyce, I see this:

This shows Horsfall coming from Robert. Robert died in 1835. May Pilling Hartley remarries Robert Wilkinson and has more children. I thought that the ThruLines were more messed up than they are. When I look at Joyce’s ThruLines for Mary Pilling, it looks correct:

That means that Ruth would be a great person of interest in looking at Pilling Clusters.

When I look at another of my father’s first cousins’ ThruLines, I see this:

Derek has an even larger match with Maury at 42 cM.

Maury’s Pilling Clusters

Maybe my chances of finding Pilling Clusters would be better with Maury than with Joyce.

I was thinking I should see an overall cluster, but I don’t see it.

The first group is the closest group of matches:

EB has a private tree, but according to shared matches, he is a nephew of Derek.

Cluster 2 includes two people from the Wilkinson Line:

Cluster 3

This seems to expand past the children of John Pillng born 1822 for the first three matches of this cluster. This tells me that there are two different groups, but Norman appears to be matched to both. This appears to be where the matches have gone from the known (Pilling and Wilkinson) to the unknown.

Cluster 4

Now that I have not figured out Cluster 3, I will move on to Cluster 4:

This represents the ultimate representation of Pilling clusters that I am aware of on my side’s matches. This would be one interpretation:

I was thinking that the first cluster were people who descended from Mary Pilling. However, George is a new match.

When I look at George’s shared matches, he comes out close to the Wilkinson side. Perhaps I can fit him in. George has an unlinked tree:

George’s mother is from Massachusetts. Perhaps that is a clue.

I don’t know if I have a better Pilling DNA tree, but this one looks like it could use some updating – especially on the Wilkinson side:

I’ll add George to my tree as a floating tree.

I’ll go with the findagrave hint at Ancestry for Barbara – Geoge’s mother:

In 1950 George Nelson is a Taxi Driver living in New Bedford:

His sister Barbara A Nelson is listed in the same household on the next page:

The house is in the Sassaquin neighborhood of New Bedford:

Here is Barbara in one tree at Ancestry:

That same tree has father George Nelson dying before 1930. However, if that is the case, how can he be the father of Barbara Ann Nelson born 1931? This appears to indicate that George died in 1930:

Here is the family in 1940, but where is Barbara? She should have been about 8 or 9 at the time.

It appears that it is not easy for me to trace this match back to Wilkinson and Pilling.

More on William Wilkinson

Shared matches seem to indicate that the George match above could be a 2nd cousin to Richard and Paul:

That could mean that they both descend from William Wilkinson born in 1879. Here is Willia a death certificate for Wilkinson in 1936:

At the time, he was living at Lindsey Street, New Bedford:

Lindsey runs between North Street and Court Street. That confirms that this must be William in the 1930 Census:

According to Paul’s Tree at Ancestry, William had a second wife:

Back to the Clusters

George is somehow connected to the Wilkinson side, but I do not know how exactly. The next cluster is from from Ann Hartley. She was the daughter of Greenwood Hartley who was the son of Mary Pilling.

The Third Cluster

  1. Elliot
  2. Talia
  3. Jane
  4. Catherine

Jane and Catherine are in the order of 1st cousins to Maurey.

They descend from James Hartley. Cluster 2 descend from James’ sister Ann Hartley Burrows.

Elliot and Talia

Elliot’s family appears to be from Tasmania:

As Elliot’s tree only goes to about the year 1900, it would take quite a bit of work to trace it back to the Pilling family.

Cluster 4

The last person in the last cluster has this possible connection:

Victoria fits in with the theory that these should be Pilling clusters. However, the tree goes back quite far. The further a tree goes back, there are more possible ways that something could have gone wrong. Here is the earliest Howorth that Victoria has:

The information looks a little vague. I don’t mind trying a quick tree to see what I get. It looks like I already checked this out in 2019:

I have Edmund’s son Edmund born in Bacup. This is interesting as this is where the Emmet side of family lived. After a quick look at the ThruLines, I do not see an easy connection.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Looking at the Pilling Clusters gave me a different perspective on this family and their descendants
  • The largest result gave me four clusters. These were: Pilling/Wilkinson, Descendants of Ann Hartley Burrows, descendants of James Hartley her brother and a fourth presumably earlier group of Pillings.
  • My assumption was that I would get a list of Pilling descendants that I could eliminate from my list of earlier Hartley descendants. It did not seem to work out that way and/or I did not look at a list to subtract them from
  • I found an interesting match to the Wilkinson line, but could not figure out how he is connected.

 

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An Overview of Upshall Clusters for My Wife’s Great-Aunt Esther

My wife has a late great-aunt Esther who is actually a half Aunt. That means that she matches by DNA on only half of my mother-in-law’s maternal side. This is my mother-in-law’s tree:

My mother-in-law and Aunt Esther match on the Upshall side and not the Daley side. Fred Upshall first married Elizabeth Daley. She died in the Flu Epidemic. He then married Margaret Shave and Esther descends from her.

Here is Esther’s tree:

Esther’s grandfather was born in 1841. That was before there were good records in Harbour Buffet, Newfoundland where the family lived. I believe that a church burned down which did not help in the record department. There are Burtons and Dicks on both sides of Esther’s tree and her parents were related to each other in some way or ways.

Esther’s Standard Clusters

Here we see 5 clusters. Clusters 4 and 5 look like they could be connected.

  1. In this cluster, I recognize everyone as farily close family to my wife except for Stephen
  2. This Cluster has my wife’s aunt – my mother-in-law’s only sister.
  3. I don’t recognize anyone right away. It is a paternal cluster as are all the clusters.
  4. My later mother-in-law Joan is in this cluster. She matches all people in all clusters by at least 65 cM except for Grace
  5. I don’t recognize anyone right away in this three match cluster.

Here is Esther’s paternal side:

After briefly reviewing the clusters, this is what I get:

  • In cluster 1, the matches were too close except for Stephen
  • In Cluster 3, the was one Upshall suggestion and one Dicks suggestion

Stephen in Cluster 1

Stephen’s closest matches with suggested common ancestors are Danielle and Catherine. Here is Danielle:

Neither Danielle nor Catherine are on Esther’s Stard Cluster chart.

Here is Catherine:

So this could be a Dicks Cluster. De

Summary and Conclusions

  • All of Esther’s Standard Clusters are on her paternal side. This could be because many who have tested are also on her paternal side.
  • Esther’s parents were related to each other, so some of the DNA results could be confusing
  • Delving more into the extended clusters would give more results on Esther’s maternal side. However, that is of less interest to my wife’s family as they are related to her on her paternal side.
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Playing with My Children’s Expanded Clusters at Ancestry – French Morrow Side

Expanded Clusters are a good new genetic genealogy tool at Ancestry.

I am more interested in my children’s maternal side as I know more about the paternal side (me). Here is my children’s mom’s tree:

The top half is polish and the bottom is Irish (Warren), English (Gatley) and French Canadian (Morrow/Tacy/Tessier).

Morrow

As I look at my daughter Heather’s ThruLines, I see this:

That is not very encouraging as it is such a small match. I can try clusters based on Erica, but many of these clusters work on a 20 cM match and Erica only matches by 12 cM. I’ll try to cluster on Erica anyway.

This results in 2 clusters. Not bad.

Therese is probably Erica’s niece. Therese has a larger match to Heather, but no tree.

Going back to the larger cluster, it seems everyone is related:

It seems like there are a lot of holes in this side of the tree:

So perhaps I need the genealogy to find more matches and more matches to support the genealogy. At this point, I am skeptical concerning Mary A Cassion’s surname. I did a surname search under Heather’s DNA match names and got no results.

Morrow Genealogy

The 1880 Census for Lowell seems significant:

Here older brother Dennis Morrow has married Sarah Whalen. But where are Dennis’ parents? He is now the head of the househould with his two younger brothers and a brother-in-law. If I can find the birth record for any of these three brothers, I should have the names of the parents.

I was able to find the Roman Catholic record for Dennis’ marriage:

Both witnesses are on the Whalen side.

Apparently Dennis remarries in 1916:

Here we have the mother of Dennis:

My best reading is Mary A Casson. At any rate, she dies in 1876. Her husband dies in 1879. That explains the 1880 Census above.

I asked Google if Morrow is a French Canadian name:

I find it frustrating that I am not able to find this family in Quebec. According to Dennis, he was born in Quebec:

Here is his brother Joseph:

The death record for Joseph in Providence gives some more information:

Here we have his middle name and a different name for his mother. Also, this indicates that his mother was from Ireland. Here the mother’s name is given as Rose Cassin from what I can tell. Another interesting thing is that Joseph dies of gas poison “probably” accidentaly. The informant is his daughter Nellie Glancy. This death record appears to contradict some of the other records concerning Mary or Rose Cassin.

Here is a stone from St. Patrick’s Cemetery in Lowell, MA:

While looking through Naturalization papers I found a different Joseph Morrow who was naturalized in Maine but from New Brunswick;

This is a possible hint to his last name.

Back to the Cluster

MK on the Heather’s cluster above has a tree with a little over 70,000 people. Here is one branch of his tree:

There is even a Jean- Baptiste in the line. I suspect that Joseph Frederick’s father was a Jean-Baptiste (John B.). Here is Louis from MK’s tree:

Here is another tree for Louis at Ancestry:

Actually, this is a Joseph born around the time I was looking for a John B.

Another thing is, that this match with Erica could be on the Tessier side:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I tried to use Heather’s expanded clusters to ferret out some more genealogy on her Morrow side
  • I had trouble with the genealogy as it appears the Morrow name could have be Moreau, Morin, Morot, Morault or something else perhaps.
  • There was one small match between Erica and Heather of 12 cM. This seems small for a 3rd cousin and JJ did not match Erica at all
  • One shared match suggests that the Morrow name could have been Morin. However, the match could also be on the Tessier/Tacy side which is not known to be related to the Morrow side.
  • While researching Joseph Morrow I found some interesting details about his death.

 

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Some Butler DNA Clusters at Ancestry

Since Ancestry enhanced their clusters, I thought that I would try them out on my wife’s Butler Line. I have two of my wife’s tested at Ancestry.

Here is my wife’s father’s paternal line:

Here is my wife’s Aunt Lorraine’s ThruLines on the third cousin level:

Patty seems like a good choice to try to cluster on.

I got some results, so that is good. Here is the 6 match cluster:

I believe that all these descend from George Butler of Cincinatti.

Here is the 19 Match cluster:

Here Patrick is interesting. What I am seeing is that there are two major clusters and Patrick is in-between the two. Patrick is the son of Will:

The common ancestor between Patrick and Lorraine is likely George Butler. He was born some time in the 1700’s and likely from Wexford, Ireland. Lorraine is Will’s 4th cousin once removed and an important DNA match.

Patty is in the cluster above Patrick. This is likely the Cincinnati cluster descending from the George in the DNA tree above.

The cluster below Patrick appears to be from another George. This George was the son of Edward Butler who confusingly also had the birth name of Adam. Edward was the brother of the George who moved to Cincinnati.

So here is what I think I have:

This is what one blogger calls walking back the ancestors.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of Georges here. The lower right corner of the pink cluster is from George Butler born 1872 and brother of Edward Henry Butler born 1875. Patrick descends from the George in the upper right hand corner of the Ancestry tree above. The upper left corner of the pink cluster descend from George Butler born 1826 and brother of Edward “Adam” Butler. I find it satisfying to be able to see all these connections in one place using Ancestry Clusters.

Lorraine’s 30 Match Butler Cluster with Patty

This is no doubt a more detailed picture of the previous pink cluster:

T

Top right is Cincinnati Butlers. Will and Patrick are from Butlers that never came to the US. The tighter cluster is from George Butler. He moved to Massachusetts. I cannot place the last 5 in the bottom right. Lisa has Murphy and other ancestors from Wexford. It is possible that some matches go beyond what we know about in the area of genealogy. This view also includes Patrick’s father Will.

Virginia and Brian

Brian comes up as a large match to the Butler family. He is a fourth cousin to Virginia who is another of my wife’s Aunts. My guess is that Virginia’s clusters with Brian should look very similar ot Lorraine’s clusters with Patty.

 

 

It is a little different. The upper left cluster is the George Butler born 1826 in Wexford, moved to Cincinnati. Actually the common ancestor between Brian and Virginia should be Henry Butler born about 1800 in Wexford – not George born 1826 as stated earlier in the Blog.

Then within that Cluster is Will and Patrick. The common ancestor between them and Virginia is Henry Butler’s father and George Butler and his unknown wife.

The third cluster would also have the common ancestor of Henry Butler but this cluster represents the desendants through Edward Henry Butler down to his son George Butler born in 1872.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Running clusters for my wife’s two late Aunts confirm my previous DNA and genealogical research.
  • Two important matches are Will and Patrick. They bring the Butler connection back another generation in Wexford, Ireland. Their DNA matches also tie together two other branches descending from two son sons of Henry Butler of Wexford: a George Butler Branch who remained in Cincinnati and a Edward Butler Branch who lived for a while in Cincinnati but who eventually moved to Massachusetts.
  • There is also a connection with Brian who descends from the Cincinnait branch, but one branch moved to St Johns, New Brunswick. This connection is important as that is where Edward Butler lived briefly and married Mary Crowley before moving to Cincinnati and eventually to Massachusetts.
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More Frazer Clusters from Gladys

Gladys is a Frazer relative here:

Gladys’ great-grandfather Richard was the brother of my 2nd great-grandfather George Frazer. In my previous Blog, my thinking was that if I used Gladys for clusters, I would get better or older matches. Also these clusters would likely eliminate some of the McMaster Matches as my 2nd great-grandfather married a McMaster.

I chose as a person of interest Mabel for Gladys’ clusters:

Here is Cluster 3. This discovered my family even though they were not explixitly included in the inputs to the cluster:

Jonathan is my brother and the rest are my siblings, my niece, my nephew, my two children and myself. This suggests that of my siblings who have tested at Ancestry, Jonathan should have the most Frazer DNA and I should have the least.

Cluster 4 for Gladys

This cluster has just one more match than the pink cluster above, but my family are now out of the cluster:

I noticed that Zara was a new match. She is also the daughter of Susan:

I’ll assume that Susan knew who her mother and grandmother were. This is Susan’s maternal line from her Ancestry Tree:

It turns out I already had Susan:

I got a little confused. This is an older Richard Frazer Line. The 1830 Richard and the 1852 Richard must have been named for the 1700’s Richard.

I looked at the lower right cluster but could not see an easy connection to any of my identifiable ancestors.

Cluster 5 for Gladys

This looks like two major clusters with perhaps some clusters within the clusters.

I recognize Jane in the major 2nd cluster. Jane and Siddon descend from Richard Frazer born perhaps 1777. I also descend from that line but from Violet Frazer who married James Frazer. So that should be the two major clusters above. First Violet and then Archibald born 1804 – both children of Richard.

 

The last cluster had 60 matches. This expanded things far out:

This one gives me a bit of a headache.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Using Gladys and Mabel to cluster gives some more detail on the different Frazer Lines
  • However, because Gladys is a bit removed from me at 3rd cousin once removed, the results are more obscure than ideal.
  • Ancestry suggests using someone in the 2nd cousin range. I think that makes sense.

 

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Ancestry’s Expanded Clusters and Frazers

I would like to see what there is of the new expanded Clusters at Ancestry on my Frazer Line. Here are some choices to cluster with:

Mabel is not my closest match by DNA, but she is my closest Frazer relative. George Frazer married a McMaster, so some of them should show up.

Creating a Custom Cluster with Mabel

First, I chose Mabel as a person of interest. The I added a few more Frazer relatives good matches. This gave me 6 custom clusters:

Here is the first 7 match cluster:

Matthew, Mabel and Faye are on my ThruLines.

I see that John’s DNA is managed by Dawn. She has a tree and her father appears to be John:

John is already on my Frazer DNA Tree:

Rebecca is on my tree. She descends from the branch that returned to Ireland from Massachusetts.

Whitney is on my tree already. She descends from my great-grandfather’s brother Richard Frazer.

That leaves Stephen. According to my shared matches, Whitney is his niece. Here, I added in Stephen next to Lisa on my Frazer DNA Tree:

I also added Stephen to my Ancestry Tree.

I was able to place each person in that cluster, so that is good.

The next 8 person cluster adds one more Matthew:

Strangely, Matthew is in the cluster and not his mother Karen. That must be because he shares more DNA with me than his mother. That makes me want to add in Matthew on my Frazer DNA tree:

This was the branch that went back to Ireland.

Frazer Cluster 3

The previous cluster is on the bottom but a few people dropped out of it. The new people are on the top.

Gladys is easily identifiable:

Gladys brings us back a generation on the Frazer tree. Richard Frazer was one of my earliest finds by DNA. In other words, he was discovered first through a DNA match from one of his descendants and then connected by genealogy. It is clear that it will be more difficult to get all the relatives at this level of relationship.

Kathryn and Others in the Cluster

Kathryn has no tree, but it is clear from shared matches that she is also from the Richard Frazer Branch. I sent an email to see if she has any information on her tree.

I looked at all others and they were in the same group – descending from Richard Frazer. However, I could not figure out easily how they fit in easily. Here is what I have now on my Frazer DNA Tree from the Richard Branch:

Cluster 4 and 5

Cluster 4 is very similar to Cluster 3, so I’ll skip to Cluster 5:

The top three are on the McMaster side.

mtrent is on my McMaster DNA Tree already as son of Robert Trent:

Here is BV:

As far as the bottom right group in Cluster 5, I am not sure. Clif is related to Gladys, who descends from Richard Frazer, but there is another connection that I cannot identify.

Cluster 6

Cluster 6 just adds some more matches to the groups:

The DNA is likely messed up as Frazers married Frazers, McMasters married McMasters and Frazers married McMasters. Also, some of my Frazer ancestors do not have the spouses identified. That makes for some genealogial uncertainty.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It was interesting to see how my Frazer ancestors grouped together in clusters
  • Matches were either easy or difficult to identify
  • The easy matches were already in my Frazer or McMaster DNA trees
  • I feel like some of my other siblings or matches have better DNA connections to the Frazer family, so it may be best to use them in the future. For example, Gladys would be a good choice as she is a generation older than me on the chart and I can access her DNA results.

 

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Hartley Genealogy and Playing with Ancestry’s Custom Clusters

Quite a while back, I took a sample from my father’s cousin to get a better representative sample of Hartley DNA. I will look at Joyce’s custom clusters. In the past, I have built a Hartley/Bracewell Tree on the assumption that that could be the correct genealogy:

The tree looks promising in that it is large, but I have trouble proving the genealogy. The part that is proved is on the Burrows > Rasmussin Line:

This gets the common ancestors back to Hartley and Emmet. The common matches also filter out the large number of Snell relatives. Kristen has a good match to Joyce, so would be a good pick for custom clusters:

A Custom Cluster between Joyce and Kristen

There are 4 small clusters. The first cluster:

This has Kristen and Emily who have been identified, but also Jennifer who I have been unable to place. The next cluster:

Zachary and Rachael are related to Jennifer. They are niece and nephew. I do see from previous correspondence that Jennifer’s father was John Williams:

Jennifer’s father or grandfather could be the John B Williams born in 1906. Here is the family in 1906 in Fall River:

But perhaps that is the wrong family. This is John A. Here is John B. Williams in 1940:

This could be the same family if John Williams remarried. This is John Burroughs Williams in October, 1940:

Here is 291 Maple Street:

Earlier in the year, the family lived here:

I won’t clear up where Jennifer fits in, but it is clear it is part of the Williams’ family.

Here is the next Cluster:

Kristen is the match in common with the others.  Ruth fits in on the Pilling family:

Mary was a single mother, so that means I do not know who the father of John Pilling was. Perhaps that adds some uncertainty to the Cluster. [Actually, it would not, as I do not desend from the unknown father of John Pilling.]

Here is the last cluster:

I guess that Emily down and to the right is a Pilling Cluster. That means that Sheryl up and to the left could be a Hartley Cluster. Interestingly, Sheryl’s match shows this:

In this Blog, I questioned the connetion shown above. That leaves me with confusing DNA and confusing genealogy.

Maurey and Kristen

Another of my father’s cousins has tested his DNA at Ancestry. I can try the same shared clusters with Kristen as I did for Joyce. This resulted in three clusters. I’ll skip to the third:

Derek and Ruth are on the Pilling Line. Jane and Catherine are related on the more recent Hartley/Snell Lines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Questions on Jennifer’s ancestry lead me to previous enquiries which revealed that Jennifer is the daughter of John Williams. However, is this the John born in 1906? There is some confusion on the genealogy in that line.
  • I have questions on Hartley genealogy and DNA. How do the Pilling and Emmet Lines fit in as well as Hartleys?
  • There are other lines in there that should fit in but cannot be placed.
  • Overall, it is helpful to observe the arrangement of families in the clusters. This may result in some fresh thinking on the problems in the genealogy.

 

 

 

 

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Updating My Children’s Maternal DNA and Genealogy: Part 2

In my previous Blog, I updated my daughter’s DNA profile using DNA Painter. I can do the same for my son using Gedmatch. I have a maternal profile for JJ at Gedmatch. JJ’s match with his second cousin Robert at Gedmatch looks like this:

This match goes back to their maternal great-grandparents:

These grandparents are Jarek and Wozniak and represent JJ’s Polish side.

Mapping this to JJ’s maternal side gives him a huge increase from 16% to 22% mapped or painted as per above. However, most of the matches are on the Polish side. Only one is on the Cavanaugh (really Warren) and Morrow side.

JJ at MyFTDNA

In order to look at JJ’s results, I need to update his password. JJ has 130 matches in common with Martha who is the Warren/Morrow match. I can check some of the Autosomal Transfer matches to see if any of those are on Ancestry. Here are some top transfer matches to JJ:

Unfortunately, Ancestry is not working right now.

JJ at Gedmatch

I went through many of the matches with trees. I found this match:

Louis has a wiki tree:

Here I see the Tacy/Tessier Line which is in my children’s ancestry. I would like to see if I can find a genealogical connection. If there is a connection, it must be quite old. According to WikiTree:

Here is the tree I have:

There is a connection on Jean Baptiste Tessier. Here is some information from WikiTree:

Louis’ tree has Jacques Tessier as his ancestor. My tree has JJ’s ancestor as Jean-Baptiste Tessier. Louis also has Richard Tacy as an ancestor. He gives his birthplace as Helena, New York in 1859:

Here is Helena:

Here is JJ’s family in nearby Fort Covington in 1860:

Here is JJ’s tree:

I can draw a tree to see how it looks. This is the tree I have now:

It seems odd to add three generations to an already long tree. There appear to be possibilities:

  • The connection to the 1600’s is correct
  • The connection is on another line
  • The genealogy may be wrong on one of the lines.

The other odd thing seems to be that Tessier would change to Tacy in two lines that are about 6 generations apart. Perhaps this was just the standard name change at the time. As I look at it, it is possible there is a Boudria connection also, so I will keep Louis off my Tessier DNA Tree for now.

Updating Maternal Trees by JJ

It appears that the Walter Line of my Jarek Tree has many missing matches. Here are JJ’s ThruLines for Walter:

Here is what I have:

Here is the update under Walter:

Kristina

Kristina does not show a common ancestor at Ancestry as she does not have a linked tree. I don’t see her on my Jarek DNA tree, but she shows a Jarek in her tree on her maternal side:

As this is her maternal side, that must mean that Kristina must be either a cousin or sister to Seth. I should be able to figure that out by shared matches. I’ll sort Kristina and JJ’s matches by those closest to Kristina. Seth shows up as Kristina’s 1st cousin or half uncle.

Seth must be a first cousin to Kristina.

JJ and Susan

JJ and Susan are 2nd cousins. And a lot of Kristina’s children have tested at Ancestry:

Here we see Kristina is a daughter, so I will go with that:

Next, I see that cat is a sister to Isabelle:

I have to pay to see these shared matches, so I may as well use them.

Charlotte and JJ

Charlotte and JJ are in the 2nd cousin range:

Using Shared matches again, I see that she is the daughter of Laurie:

So far, pretty easy for these 2nd cousin level relatives.

Richard and JJ

Richard has Polish ancestry:

Ancestry thinks the connection should be in the 2nd couisn range, but that does not seem possible. It seems like the connection should be here:

This tree in my hints has Joesf Jarek :

I believe that these two places are the same place. Ordrzykon is in SE Poland:

Here is Zarnowiec:

Lea maintains Richard’s tree. Here is another tree by Lea:

Here is JJ’s tree:

My conclusion is that Weronica Dziuria born 1861 is the sister of Anna Dziuria born 1869.

A Dziuria DNA Tree

I gave this tree a different look. JJ and Richard are third cousins once removed. According to Ancestry, Richard and JJ could be as close as 2nd cousins once removed. But the chance that they are 3rd cousins once removed is 13%:

This could also mean that Richard and JJ connect on other Polish lines. I would like to note that I do not have evidence currently that Anna Dziuria was the sister of Weronika, but the DNA strongly suggests that.

Now that I have made this change, it seems that Ancestry has changed.

New Dziuria ThruLines

Here are Richard and Beverly:

Lea seems to be the driving force behind the DNA and genealogy in the family:

The only issue seems to be that the DNA levels are higher than should be expected for the relationship of 3rd cousin once removed, 4th cousin and 4th cousin once removed. That means that there may be other connections. However, this is the earliest and only connection that I see right now.

Further DNA Proof for the Dziuria Tree?

I can now see special Clusters at Ancestry. Perhaps this will help. I will choose Richard as a match of interest:

Then I chose JJ’s sister, Robert who represents Jarek and Lea who represents Dziuria. Perhaps I didn’t have to choose Lea. That gave me this:

Next, I will try with just Richard. Actually, I chose Robert by mistake. He represents all the Polish relatives:

For some reason, I do not see Richard on this list. Next, I will choose Richard, but lower the upper limit to 150 cM as JJ matches Richard by 125 cM:

The 19 match cluster is interesting:

Here I see two clusters within this cluster. Richard of interest is about two thirds down the list. The first cluster has a lot of Lea’s family in it. In the second cluster, the last Richard has a good tree:

He shows that his mother’s mother’s mother’s mother was a Wozniak.

The 27 Match Cluster

This one is intersting:

Here I see two major clusters, but Richard does not seem to match the cluster in the lower right. It turns out that Liz has a great tree:

Liz has the Such family on her paternal side:

JJ’s third great-granmother was Marii Such:

This must be the connection. From another tree, I see that Joseph Jarek was born in 1841. That means that Marii Such could be a sister of Michal.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Of the major DNA companies, Ancestry is the easiest to work with
  • I was able to build a new Dziuria tree based on DNA matches mostly, but also previous genealogy I had done on my children’s Dziuria Line
  • I see that Ancestry has now made their Clusters more flexible taking the level down to 20 cM. This resulted in findin

 

 

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Updating My Children’s Maternal DNA and Genealogy

I see that the DNA profiles for my children’s DNA matches is a out of date. Here is my daughter’s maternal profile:

Heather is only 15% identified and of these there are only three common ancestor choices. The blue match is Marti:

This is the one non-Polish match mapped. I am more interested in my children’s maternal side as I already know about their paternal side.

Here is my son’s profile:

JJ has one more ancestral couple mapped compared to Heather. I changed some of the colors.

How to Get More DNA Mapped for My Children?

The places to get matches are at FTDNA, MyHeritage and Gedmatch. I don’t have my children tested at 23andMe and Ancestry does not support DNA mapping. I’ll start with FTDNA which is the only place to get information on the X Chromosome. This route was not easy, so I tried Gedmatch. There, I have Heather’s kit split into a maternal and paternal kit. Here is a match on her maternal side:

This is the ideal match, as I can easily find it at Ancestry. Ancestry even shows the common ancestors:

This match represents all Heather’s Polish matches. This is the information I give to DNA Painter to paint the match:

This brings Heather up to 19% painted on her maternal side:

The last two entries in the key represent my children’s maternal grandparents:

These are Jarek and Cavanaugh. However, going back, Cavanaugh is really Warren. On the maternal side, less is known about the Cavanaugh/Warren side.

In Common with Martha

At FTDNA, I can run an in common with Martha. Martha is on the Cavanaugh/Warren side. I found 155 matches in common between Heather and Martha, but it is difficult to see how they may be related. So the disconnect is that Martha is on FTDNA, but it is difficult to find other easily identifiable matches that are in common with Heather.

Not in Common with Robert

I had an idea. I can go to Gedmatch and look for matches that do not match Robert. Those maternal matches of Heather should be on the Cavanaugh/Warren side.

Here are some of the ones that match Heather and Robert:

Here are some of the ones that match Heather:

I take these to be the non-Polish matches, though the first match is Robert. Next, I need to track down any of these that are on Ancestry. One has a tree. Let’s start with Betty. I think this is Betty’s tree from Ancestry:

Unfortunately, I do not see the connection. However, Suzanne is a shared match between Heather and Betty at Ancestry:

Gatley is on the Cavanaugh/Warren side, so this makes sense. Here is another of Heather’s matches:

Some Gatley Genealogy

Next, I should try to evaluate the Gatley connection. I see that my son also has a Gatley connection:

I’ll start with Patrick. There is some confusion as to where his father, John Joseph was born, but his draft card gives the birth places as Yonkers, New York:

John’s grandmother’s name is from this death certificate:

Here is the birth information:

I’ll choose Ellen for Henry’s mother’s name as it is the older record.

The 1901 Census for Hamilton City seems important:

This gives a birth date and place for Ellen or Helen.

Ellen Hardman

From the 1901 Census, we see that Ellen’s first 4 children were born in England. This tells me that the couple was likely married in England not too long before 1880. Also the family must be on the 1881 Census. This must be the family in Warrington:

John was Irish and a wire drawer as in Ontario. Further, this shows that Ellen was born in Warrington:

It looks like I have gone off track. I should have been tracking Lillian Hardman.

Oops, Lilly Fee

Here is Lilly’s Naturalization Record:

It turns out that Lily was also from Warrington. She was born there in 1897 and married in 1920. I assume that marriage was in Winnipeg. The birth place of John Joseph is still a mystery.

Child Newman Henry identifies Lily as a Hardman:

According to this record, the couple married in Warrington:

The picture of Lily’s life is coming into focus. But maybe not. This marriage is in Winnipeg:

Here is Warrington in 1901:

All does not appear to be well as mother Elizabeth is listed as a widowed charwoman and there is a male boarder living in the house. I assume this is Great Sankey:

This appears to be the family in 1891:

Father Thomas is a Tanner and Eliza is a Fustian Cutter.

This appears to be the marriage:

Here is the 1871 Census. Elizabeth’s father had already passed away:

Here is James in 1861:

Next, I need to see if this James is the same as the one I have in my tree.

Two James Gatleys?

Here is the James I already have in my tree:

He is born in Salford and dies in Fall River in 1881.

The James that I am looking at above:

He is born also in 1821 but in Martin Croft.

Checking Heather’s Gatleys

Perhaps these Gatleys will link up better.

Here is Suzanne’s tree:

 

Her tree matches with the one I have (assuming I have it right):

I’ll accept the hints for Suzanne’s grandparents on the Harris line to save time. Here is a birth record for one of the Harris boys:

Here is Middlesbrough:

Here is Thomas in 1921:

Here is the family in 1911 living with the in-laws:

Here is the marriage:

Frederick dies in WWI.

I am interested in Frederick’s mother. Here is young Frederick in 1881:

Mother Mary Ann is born in Manchester. I assume that this is the couple’s marriage banns in 1866:

The 1871 Census has Mary Ann born in Salford and some of her children born in Warrington.

Here is Mary Ann’s baptismal record from Manchester Cathedral:

Here is the 1861 Census:

Mary Ann’s parents are born in Salford and Waterford, Ireland. When I search for a marriage for this couple, I get this:

I tend to think that this is right, as James is listed as a Fustian Cutter. Here is Eccles, which is right near Salford:

When I turn the page of the 1861 Census, I see this:

Here is Jane Gatley – perhaps the mother of James Gatley. She is listed as being born in Warrington.

This is likely the baptism of James Gatley:

After looking at many records, I would say that the ThruLines are correct.

A First Gatley DNA Tree

This shows that my children are 5th cousins with Suzanne.

Summary and Conclusions

  • The Blog got a bit long which was unavoidable due to adequately checking out genealogies.
  • There are two second cousins on my children’s maternal side. One represents the Polish side and the other represents the non-Polish or Irish/English side.
  • The ThruLine for JJ is incorrect as shown, though there may be a Gatley connection further back in time for him.
  • Due to a correct ThruLine for Heather, I was able to draw my first Gatley DNA Tree
  • I also added some DNA to DNA Painter on the Polish side for my children.

 

Posted on

More DNA Evidence for My Childrens’ Warren Ancestry

I have that my two children descend from Jeremiah Warren:

From Ancestry ThruLines for my daughter:

 

This shows a DNA connection between children of Bridget Warren and John J  Warren.

Here is a Warren DNA Tree I built in 2020:

Mary is a new DNA match to the tree since 2020.

Adding Mary to My Tree?

Ancestry suggest that I evaluate Mary’s tree. Here is what Mary has:

I only need connect Mary back to Francis J. Sullivan. Here is the family in 1910:

Here are the children I already had for Frank J. Sullivan:

Notice this is the same family due to Blanche, Henry and Russell Sullivan. That means that Douglas Sullivan must be George Douglas Sullivan, the great-grandfather of Mary. The Roman Catholic records show Douglas’ full name:

The Massachusetts records only have him as Douglas:

Next, we need the connection from Douglas to Mary’s grandfather.

Frank passes away in 1917:

George is a single truck driver for the City of Lowell in 1930:

Here is Mary’s grandfather Jerry in 1950:

Jerold appears to have been in the Navy:

Here, I have added Mary to my Warren DNA Tree:

A Tale of Two John Cavanaughs

All the DNA connection is important as there is some confusion between two John Cavanaughs in Lowell. I previously set out the genealogy of my children in this 2019 Blog.

My Childrens’ John Cavanaugh

This John was born in 1880 to John Warren and Louisa Kavanaugh:

As stated in the Roman Catholic record, he was illegitimate. This John went by John Warren sometimes and John Cavanaugh at other times. Here is his marriage record:

Despite going by John Cavanaugh, he chooses to use his birth name at the time of his marriage in 1911.

The Mistaken John Cavanaugh

The mistaken John Cavanaugh was born about 10 years earlier than my children’s’ John.

The people in this neighborhood of Lowell worked in a bleachery.

Confusingly, the two Johns were also half brothers according to my research:

The chronology is that Louisa Gatley marries Michael Cavanaugh. They have two children, but Michael dies in 1872. Louisa then has a child with widower John Warren who already has a family. John Warren drowns two years later. Massachusetts records list John’s death as ‘accidental drowning’. However, he had two half siblings who were Cavanaughs.

More on DNA and Shared Matches

So far, Mary has supported my genealogy showing that my children’s great-grandfather was actually a Warren and not a Cavanaugh. Eileen is Heather’s closest match for the Jeremiah Warren ThruLines:

On Heather’s Shared Match list, Eileen and Mary share 72 cM. Also I see a Kevin who is Mary’s father.

Summary and Conclusions

I have not reviewed the Warren ThruLines for many years. Now there are a few more matches. Some are on the ThruLines and some are not. The matches support my assertion that my children do not technically descend from a Cavanaugh Line but from a Warren Line.