A Frazer STR Tree

A new 111 STR match to the Frazer YDNA group has me thinking about Frazer STR trees.  I haven’t seen the specific STR results for the new Frazer match, but we have five testers who have already taken the BigY test. That means that we already have the skeleton of a STR tree which is the SNP tree. Here is the current Block Tree from the perspective of my cousin Paul:

This goes up to the level of R-YP6489. I can portray that like this:

These SNPs tend to set this tree in stone. We know the genealogy of the first four testers. Y151390 is from the James Line. James Frazer was born in the early 1700’s. Y5682 is from James’ older brother Archibald. We are not sure how Frazier fits in by genealogy other than the fact that the connection is further back in time. – probably in the 1400’s in Scotland.

Here is that same group in the Fraser and Septs YDNA Project:

Here I wrote down the Mode which is the third row above. This is generally thought to be the ancestral value:

However, I questioned DYS710. The values were:

Frazier had a 32. The first row is supposed to be the minimum and shows as 33. Hmm. It would make more sense ifthe ancestral was 33. Then Rick and Paul on the Archibald Line would have mutated up and Frazier would have mutated down.

For a similar reason, I would like to use 35-39 for CDY even though it is the value appearing least often:

If I have written down all the deviations from the modified mode correctly, I have this:

Green is the Archibald Line of Frazers. Blue is the James Line and reddish is the older Frazier/Frazer Line.

When I put those STRs onto the SNP or Frazer Haplotree, I get this:

I didn’t have room for all the Frazier/Frasher STR changes over the last 500 years, so I left those out. I do note that Frazier and Rick had what is called a parallel STR mutation at DYS444. That means that Rick and Frazier don’t share the same branch by that mutation but that they both had those mutations independently of each other.

Why Is a STR Tree Important

This tree is mostly important for Frazer relatives who have not taken the BigY test. This should show how they are related to various Frazers. Once I get the new 111 STR results for the latest Frazer relative named Dingman, I will be able to add him to the STR tree. He likely to be aligned on Rick and Paul’s side, but the common ancestor is believed to be here:

Because the connection is so high in the tree and because Jonathan has no known mutations since about 1690, that would explain why Dingman shows a closer STR match to Jonathan:

In the tree above, there is some uncertainty as to which son of Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilley Dingman descends from.

A New Frazer STR Tree

Here is the new Frazer STR Tree with the new Dingman STR results which just came in:

One major contribution of DIngman is with DYS710. He has a value of 34 along with Rick and Paul where the other three testers have 33. That means that a DYS710 of 34 represents the Archibald Line of Frazers (as opposed to the James Line). That means that either Archibald Frazer born about 1715 or his son Archibald born about 1743 had this mutation.

Checking the Numbers

Above, I mention that there should be 5 STR value differences between Jonathan and Dingman, but there appear to be 6. For the shared ancestor of Jonathan and Rodney (Thomas Henry Frazer born 1836), I had an extra STR. If I take that out, it adds up:

I left my mistake in above to show how easy it is to make mistakes in these trees. I also had the wrong STR name for Paul which I corrrected above. Hopefully there are no more mistakes. Now it adds up as there is one mutation between Jonathan and Archibald Frazer of 1690 and four between Dingman and Archibald Frazer of 1690. That adds up to a geneatic distance of 5.

Next there should be a GD of 7 between Jonathan and Frazier. That means I missed a Frazier STR.


It turns out I missed DYS710 for Frazier, the STR I made a big deal of above. It turns out that DYS710 is an important defining STR for Frazer Genealogy:

  • DYS710 = 33 – Ancestral to Frazers/Fraziers (probably) and defines the James Line today
  • DYS710 = 34 – The Archibald Frazer Line (as opposed to the James Line)
  • DYS710 = 32 – Defines at least part of the Frazier Line. We don’t know how far back. Unfortunately, this marker is the first STR in the 111 STR test, so it will only tell us about those who have taken the 111 STR test.

DYS710 is a good defining STR because it is slow moving. CDY is in the differrent lines, but it is a fast mover, so not the best STR to define a Line.

This image shows DYS710 in lighter blue as it is the first SNP in the 111 panel (after the 67 Panel of STRs). I have an arrow pointing to CDY. The faster moving STRs are shown in a maroon color.

The tree also shows a consistant amount of STR differences going down the tree from top to bottowm between Dingman, Rick and Paul. They each have four STR changes in the tree. The older Frazier line has 6 changes. Jonathan and Rodney only have one and two STR mutations respectively. My guess is that the James Line has fewer than average STR mutations and that the Archibald Line has more than expected.

Where Should Dingman Fit In As Far As SNPs?

Assuming the chart above is correct, Dingman will be positive for FT421618 as he descends from Archibald Frazer born 1690. He will be negative for Y151390 which is in the James Frazer Line.  We don’t know if  Dingman will be positive for Y58652 even though he is from the Archibald Frazer Line:

Y85652 is representative of a block of three SNPs.  These three SNPs are also representative of James Frazer born about 1804. Dingman descends from Archibald Frazer born around 1743. That means that any SNPs that Dingman would not have any SNPs came about between that Archibald and that James. My guess is that he could be positive for all three or more likely he will be positive for one or two of the SNPs and negative for the other one or two.

Another interesting thing is that the Archibald Branch of Frazers seems to have produced 3 SNPs in 4 generations.  That represents the period between about 1715 and 1804 or about 89 years. That is quite a bit considering that some people use an averege number of one SNP every 84 years. However, having these extra SNP is important for future fine tuning of which SNP goes with which Family under the Archibald Branch of the Frazers of Roscommon Ireland.

Where Did I Go Wrong in My Last Blog?

In my previous Blog, I had predicted that the common ancestor between Dingman  and the Frazers would precede Archibald Frazer by some time. This prediction was wrong. It is difficult to make these predictions based on STRs. Now that I know Dingman’s genealogy, it is easier to place him in the SNP tree and it makes the STR tree fairly easy to build.

Summary and Conclusions

  • There is some guesswork building a STR tree
  • In this case where I now understand the genealogy better and now the SNP tree for five testers, that takes away some of the uncertainty and I was able to build a reasonable STR tree
  • Dingman adds an important piece to the YDNA Frazer tree
  • If Dingman or another Archibald Frazer descendant were to take the BigY test, they would likely further fine tune the YDNA tree for the Archibald Branch of the Frazer tree.


Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *