A New Dingman YDNA Match to the Frazer Group

I have been involved with Frazer DNA and specifically Frazer YDNA for quite a while. The best YDNA test at FTDNA is the BigY. The result of that test is to place you in a SNP or SNP group called a Haplogroup. The Frazers from North Roscommon are fortunate to have four BigY testers. This has not only given the Frazers their own Haplogroup, but has also split the two Frazer Lines into two Haplogroups. The best view of this is at FTDNA’s Block Tree View. Here is the view from my cousin Paul’s perspective:

I have added some notes. The first column is the James Line. The second column is the Archibald Line. We think that  the father of James and Archibald Frazer was born sometime around 1690. The SNP R-Y151390 represents the James Line. The SNP R-Y85652 represents the elder brother Archibald Frazer. The white space above these two SNPs should represent Archibald Frazer born around 1690.

Stuart and Grant YDNA

Due to the age of matches the Frazers have with Stuart and Grant, my assumption is that these early relatives were living in the same area of Scotland when people picked their surnames. Some picked Frazer, some Stuart and some Grant or others in the same area of Scotland.

Frazier YDNA

A Frazier YDNA tester came along and split the block of SNPs in half so he is now R-YP6489 where the Frazers used to be. If we take one SNP to be 84 years, then his common ancestor with our Frazers would be 252 years before Archibald born around 1690 or around 1440. I am assuming that it is more than coincidence that this match has a name very similar to Frazer. From that we may assume that the five of us descend from an unbroken line of Frazer/Fraziers going back to the middle ages.

Here is a Clan map showing how some of these Clans lived in fairly close proximity to each other:

This map includes Fraser, Grant, Stewart and Chisolm. Chilsolm has been a STR match.

The New Dingman 111 STR Match

This is how Dingman matches my second cousin Paul:

First note that STR matching is not as accurate as the SNP matching. In the SNP block tree, Frazier was more closely related than the two Stuarts. Based on this matching, one might think that it was the other way around.  The closer the match is, the more accurate the STR matching is. This shows that Rick is Paul’s closest match:

Paul and Rick are 3rd cousins once removed. Paul is a 6th cousin once removed to Rodney and Jonathan.

Where Does Dingman Fit In?

The match between Paul and Dingman does not appear to be an anomaly. I have heard from relatives of Jonathan and Rick and they both match Dingman at about the same level as Paul. FTDNA provides as guestimate as to how far back Paul’s common ancestor is with Dingman:

FTDNA gives a statistical answer in generations and percent likelihood. We see from my tree above that Paul, Rodney and Jonathan share a common ancestor back at 7 or 8 generations. I would not be surprised if Dingman shared a  common ancestor with Paul in this area:

If Dingman were to take the BigY test, we may find out that he and our Frazers have a common ancestor around 10 generations ago or around 100 years before Archibald Frazer born in 1690. This should put the common ancestor in Scotland around 1590. My other guess is that Dingman could have been a Frazer originally. A Dingman BigY test would likely split the FT421618 Block based on how he matches other Frazers with STRs.

Here is some more documentation of TIP Reports from FTDNA:

What We Don’t Know

The YDNA match to Dingman indicates that he has not provided information about his most distant male ancestor. He has not posted a family tree. In addition, I don’t think that Dingman has joined the R1a YDNA Project at FTDNA nor has he joined the Frazers and Septs Project. As he has not appeared to join these projects, we cannot tell his specific STR differences with other Frazer YDNA testers other than knowing his Genetic Distance.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Dingman is a good YDNA match to our Frazer relatives. Our Frazers have the ancestor of Archibald Frazer born around 1690 and who probably lived in North Roscommon County, Ireland.
  • Based on the 111 STR test Dingman’s common ancestor with our Frazer Line could go back to a Frazer born around 1590 in Scotland.
  • If Dingman were to take the BigY test, it would probably result in more refinement of the Frazer YDNA tree.
  • Right now we don’t have information on Dingman genealogy or the specifics of his 111 STR test other than generational distance.


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