At a recent Hartley reunion, I asked Joyce to take an AncestryDNA test and she gladly obliged. Joyce is my father’s cousin. I had already asked Joyce’s brother Jim to take a test at FTDNA and I have been working with his results. My father has a lot of cousins as his grandparents had 13 children that survived past infancy.
Here is a picture of Joyce and her granddaughter that my sister took at this year’s Hartley Reunion:
I remember Joyce’s mom as the one who always had cookies to give out at the family reunion. Joyce knows a lot of Hartleys as she used to be in charge of sending out letters to the relatives.
Joyce’s Genealogy – English, English and English
Here are some of Joyce’s ancestors:
The Hartley part that I am more interested in is on the bottom. Joyce has a lot of English names in her ancestry. Also a lot of Colonial Massachusetts ancestors. The ancestors that were not from Colonial Massachusetts were the Hartleys. They came to the US after the American Civil War. I’m hoping that DNA testing will confirm the last two Hartleys on the chart. They are James Hartley and Betty Baldwin. Those two were my best guess for the parents of Robert Hartley. My problem was that there were a lot of Robert Hartleys born around the same time in the area to different parents.
Ancestry has something called Genetic Communities which shows where your ancestors were in the last 200 years or so. Not surprisingly, for Joyce, her one Genetic Community is Colonial New England:
Joyce’s Matches at Ancestry
Joyce currently shows over 600 4th cousins or closer at Ancestry. That doesn’t mean that all these matches are 4th cousins. It just means that by the level of DNA match, it appears that the match could be at the level of 4th cousins. When I look at the matches, the range that Ancestry gives is actually 4th to 6th cousins. Perhaps because of all the colonial matches, some of the matches appear closer than they actually are. These matches are both on the Hartley and Gurney sides.
Shared Ancestor Hints
Ancestry also has Shared Ancestor Hints (SAHs). An SAH is when there is a DNA match to a person and also a match in the family tree. These hints are very accurate at close range, but may need checking at the more distant connections. Here is Joyce’s very accurate SAH with my sister Lori:
I’ve erased some of the information for privacy, but this shows that Lori and Joyce are 1st cousins, once removed. Joyce will show similar match results for all of my very many 2nd cousins.
Here is one of Joyce’s more distant Colonial Massachusetts cousins:
Here Ancestry has found a DNA match with this person and a family tree match with the common ancestors of Francis Crapo and Patience Spooner. This would be a good family tree match if both family trees were filled out well and there were no other matches. However, the tree on the right also shown below is missing some lines:
The match should be the bottom side of this tree. However, there is some missing information on the bottom. There are no parents for Weston, Pittsley, Reynolds, etc. However, lets assume that the DNA is actually on the Spooner side which then goes up to Crapo and Spooner. I suppose that means that Patience Crapo could have married a Spooner relative.
Joyce’s Spooner Match at Gedmatch
Once Joyce’s results came in, I uploaded them to Gedmatch.com. I like this site because you can tell a lot more about your matches. Fortunately, the Spooner/Crapo match above also uploaded to Gedmatch.
At gedmatch, I can see that the match is on Chromosome 3. Ancestry doesn’t give specific match location for their DNA matches. However, the bottom line is that wherever I or my siblings or my cousins match Joyce at this particular spot, it means that it likely represents colonial Massachusetts DNA that came through the Snell side.
People That Match Joyce and Jocye’s Crapo/Spooner Match
It is possible to run a facility at Gedmatch that shows people that match two other people that match each other by DNA. When I put Joyce and her Crapo/Spooner match, I get these people:
Above the reference person is Joyce. #3 is her Crapo/Spooner match. #1 is my 2nd cousin Patricia. She is also a 1st cousin, once removed to Joyce, so matches her in quite a few places by DNA. The other people are those who I don’t know, but they probably descend from Crapo and/or Spooner.
A Lancashire DNA Match?
As I mentioned above, Joyce has three quarters colonial Massachusetts ancestry and one quarter more recent Lancashire, England ancestry which happens to be Hartley. I found a match recently on Gedmatch which is interesting. The match is with Lee and is a fairly good size. Here is how Lee matches on Chromosome 13 with my three sisters, me, Joyce and her brother Jim:
Note that Lee matches all of us for the same amount. This means that Lee has a segment passed down from one of his grandparents that starts and ends on the yellow that matches all of us. We would have longer portions of that DNA on either side of Lee’s segment.
All of Lee’s ancestors are from England and most from Lancashire, which would make me believe that the match is on the Hartley side. The other colonial ancestors that Joyce have go back to England so long ago, that she shouldn’t be matching on those ancestors. Here are Lee’s ancestors:
It is also interesting that Lee has a Hartley ancestor (but no information on her parents). Margaret Hartley named her son, Robert Hartley Taylor. The mother of John Clark is a Baldwin. I had mentioned above, that it is possible that there is a Baldwin in the Hartley ancestry. So that would be interesting to follow up also. Both these people were from the Colne area where the Hartleys were baptized, had funerals and married.
Another Lancashire Match in Mary Pilling
Joyce has a DNA match with two Mary Pilling descendants at Ancestry. One of those, a Wilkinson, has uploaded his results to Gedmatch. Mary Pilling is the mother of three families: Pilling, Hartley and Wilkinson. Here is how the match looks like at Ancestry:
Joyce is actually a half 3rd cousin once removed to her match. That is because after Robert Hartley died, Mary Pilling married a Wilkinson. So that makes for an obscure relationship and not much of a chance for a DNA match, but there is one. Here is how the match looks like at gedmatch:
The above represents Wilkinson’s match with Joyce and her brother Jim at the end of Chromosome 21.
Joyce’s results at Ancestry push back the matches one more generation at AncestryDNA compared to my generation. As a result, there are many more Hartley and non-Hartley DNA matches to investigate. If I can get the results of one more of Joyce’s siblings I will be able to tell where Joyce and her sibling got their DNA from each of their 4 grandparents. That would reach back to James Hartley and Annie Louisa Snell. Knowing this would make it easier to tell if their DNA matches represent Lancashire, England or Colonial Massachusetts. This may also help push back the Hartley ancestry which is currently stuck in the early 1800’s.