Category: Frazer

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A Third Frazer Big Y 500: Part 2

Last month, I took a first look at Rodney’s Big Y 500 results. At that time, I was looking for unnamed SNPs that Rodney and Jonathan shared on the James Line. I was unable to find any. It looks like FTDNA and YFull were unable to find any also. When I wrote my first Blog, Rodney’s results were not at YFull yet. YFull is a popular service for interpreting Big Y results. I’ll take a look at Rodney’s YFull Results in this Blog. Before I do that, here is where Rodney fits into the Frazer YDNA testing tree:

Paul, Rodney and Jonathan have taken the Big Y test and Rick has taken the YDNA STR test.

Rodney at YFull

Before Rodney’s results were in, this was the YTree:

Jonathan and Paul were the last two id’s. Here is the present YTree:

YTree Changes

I see two major changes to the YTree. One is that there is a new non-Frazer Branch. The second is that the Frazer branch common ancestor is refined from 475 ybp to 375 ybp. From what we can tell, at the tree above, Archibald was born around 1690. That is roughly 325 years ago. So 375 years ago by YDNA is pretty close. I was expecting a new SNP for the James Line of the Frazers. These SNPs form about every 144 years. Note that at 375 years ago, that should represent 2 or three new SNPs. From my work on the STR side of the YDNA testing, it has seemed like the STR differences have been primarily on the Archibald Branch of the Frazer tree and not on the James side. It seems like this must be true for the SNPs also. This would have to be verified by Big Y testing of someone else in the Archibald Line. The only other possibility is that there is indeed another SNP for the James Line, but the testing results were not clear enough to determine that.

A New Parallel SNP Line to the Frazers

Here is the new line of R-BY26344:

While I’m thinking of it, there is another interesting point. The YTree shows that YP6488 was formed 1100 years ago. [The date that the SNP was formed is earlier than the common ancestor dates listed above. For the formed dates, see the YTree above.] The two branches below YP6488 were formed 700 years ago. However, the Frazer branch of YP6489 consists of six total SNPs listed here:

From 1100 to 700 years ago is 400 years. SNPs are formed on average every 144 years but in 400 years somehow the Frazer seemed to get 6 SNPs. On the other hand, BY26344 has is only represented by two SNPs over 400 years. That could mean that the Frazer line had all it’s SNP mutations between 1100 and 700 years ago, so now they are just coasting, so to speak.

Who Does BY26344 Represent?

YFull uses ID’s, so it can be difficult to tell who these people are. In the past, I have been tracking the Grants as their YDNA STRs have had similarities to the Frazers. That appears to be the case. However, there is also a Stuart as well as a grant in the YP6488 Group.

Here Grant and Stuart are still listed as YP6488, so that means that FTDNA may be a bit behind YFull for Grant and Stuart.

This is interesting as it shows us that Grant and Frazer had a common ancestor about 1300 A.D. To me, this would be before the time that surnames were in common use. However, by 225-375 years ago, surnames should have been in common use. This should mean that the two SNPs at the bottom of the tree should represent Grant and Frazer respectively. This also has interesting parallels to my wife’s line. A surname that was related to hers was also found to be a common ancestor about 700 years ago.

As a reminder, here is a map showing how close the Frasers and Grants lived in 1587:

My assumption is that this is where the common ancestors of the Grants, Stuarts and Frazers lived around the year 1300. This is to the Southwest and West of Inverness. The Frazers had the Grants surrounded. Also the Grants and Frazers surrounded Loch Ness.

I also note that one of the YDNA Grants testers mentions Carron. If I have the right Carron, it is to the Northeast of Glasgow. The Frazers were believed to be from the area of Ayr. I have also added dates to the various areas that the Grants and Frazers may have lived these areas.

Note where I have Grant above, I should have also included Stuart.

Further Questions on the Grant/Stuart Line

Assuming that the two IDs at YFull on the YTree are indeed Stuart and Grant, that poses additional questions for those two lines:

  • A common ancestor of 225 years ago is within the surname era. That means that there was some mixing of the two surnames due to adoption or other event.
  • Stuart appears to have been in Virginia before 225 years ago and Grant in Carron before that time. If this is correct, then the 225 years for a common ancestors may not be right.

I point this out partly, because it shows some common issues that could arise in a surname project. Fortunately, the testing of the Frazers so far has not resutled in similar issues.

Big Y 500 STRs

YFull looks at STRs deduced from the Big Y test. Here is how Rodney matches Jonathan and Paul:

This shows that, by STRs, Rodney is much more closely related to Jonathan than Paul. I think that there is a way to convert the distance to years, but I can’t find it right now. However, it appears to show that Rodney is more than twice as closely related to Jonathan as Paul is. This makes sense based on the genealogical tree at the top of the Blog.

Rodney is Running Out of SNPs

Here are Rodney’s novel SNPs at YFull:

Note that Rodney has no best or acceptable quality Novel SNPs. Novel SNPs are the ones that don’t match others. That means that all of Rodney’s good SNPs are already matched up with Paul and Jonathan as they should be. This makes sense as the time between the birth of Rodney, Jonathan and their common ancestor of Thomas Henry Frazer is likely less than 144 years.

For comparison, here are Paul’s Novel SNPs:

Paul has 10 Best or Acceptable Quality novel or private SNPs. It is likely that one or more of these SNPs could become an Archibald Line SNP if another Archibald Line Frazer descendant tests for the Big Y.

Perhaps a better comparison would be with Jonathan’s novel SNPs:

Jonathan is really out of Novel SNPs. He has no novel SNPs of any kind of quality.

Summary and Conclusions

 

  • Rodney’s Big Y 500 test has refined the YTree and dates of common ancestors
  • Many new SNPs prior to about the year 1300 may account for no identified SNPs after that date for the James Line
  • Another Big Y tester on the Archibald Line may create a new SNP for that branch
  • Assuming that the new Branch of BY26344 was for Stuart and Grant, that raises questions about the origin of those lines and about the date of the common ancestor for those two surnames.
  • The common ancestors for the Frazer distant relatives of Stuart and Grant has been moved up from 800 years ago to 700 years ago.
  • The common ancestor for the three Frazer testers has also been moved up 100 years: from 475 to 375 years ago.
  • The STR testing confirms the relative DNA closeness of Rodney and Jonathan who are in the James Line. This is also confirmed by autosomal DNA test results.
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More on Emily’s Frazer DNA

In March, I wrote my first Blog about Emily. She is a 2nd cousin, once removed who tested her DNA at MyHeritage. Emily and her daughter Mel who are related to me on my Frazer Line have also uploaded their DNA results to Gedmatch. MyHeritage does not show X Chromosome results but Gedmatch does.

The X Chromosome

The X Chromosome is interesting as it is not inherited from father to son. As a result, when there is an X Chromosome match with someone, it is possible to narrow down where that DNA came from.

Here is how my sisters and I are related to Emily:

Note that cousin Paul got no X Chromosome on his father’s Frazer side. Also Joel, Jon and Jim got no Frazer X Chromosome. That Leaves Emily, Melanie, Heidi, Sharon and Lori.

McMaster DNA from the X Chromosome

A further interesting point is that if Heidi, Sharon, or Lori match Emily by the X Chromosome, then it would have to be from Margaret McMaster, born 1846. How do I know that? Emily got her X from Susan Fairbanks. Susan got hers from Violet Frazer. Violet Frazer got an X from George Frazer and Margaret McMaster. However, my sisters got their Frazer X from their dad. He got his only from his mother. Marion Frazer got her Frazer X DNA from her dad. James Frazer got his X DNA only from his mom Margaret McMaster. Therefore if Emily matches Heidi, Sharon, or Lori by X Chromosome, it has to be from Margaret McMaster.

Emily’s X Chromosome Matches with My Sisters

I will just be considering Emily as Melanie got half her DNA from her mother. Here is how Emily matches Lori, Sharon and Heidi on the X:

That means that Lori, Sharon and Heidi each have about 38 cM of DNA from their 2nd great grandmother.

Painting Lori

It is possible to paint or map Lori’s match using a great utility called DNAPainter:

While I’m at it, I’ll map Lori and Emily’s other non-X matches:

The blue side represents Lori’s paternal side and red is her maternal side. The greenis segments represent either George Frazer or Margaret McMaster. We can’t tell which right now. The blue indicates that we know that particular DNA is from Margaret McMaster.

Emily and My Brother Jim

I mentioned Emily and my brother JIm in my previous Blog. Even though Jim was the sixth of six siblings tested in my family, his DNA test showed he had some Frazer DNA that the other five siblings did not have. Jim’s unique Frazer segment is on Chromosome 5 as shown with his match with Emily below:

As shown in the lower left key, Jim’s matches with Emily represent DNA they both have from George Frazer and Margaret McMaster.

Going Back a Generation

Jim also matches Gladys. She is a third cousin once removed. Jim and Gladys’ common ancestors are James Frazer and Violet Frazer. From what I can figure out, these were first cousins that married each other.

This couple in yellow were the parents of George Frazer. What is interesting to note is that the match with Gladys and Jim overlaps the match with Emily and Jim on Chromosome 5. That would be considered triangulation. This indicates that this match is actually from older Frazer DNA. This also tells me that the blue DNA that Jim matched with Emily is actually Frazer and not McMaster DNA.

In theory, the DNA segments that are older should be smaller and more broken up and the DNA segments representing more recent ancestors should be larger. However, the DNA didn’t read that section on DNA theory. In practice, larger segments sometimes get passed down from many generations ago.

Next up: more painting or mapping of Lori and Jimmy’s DNA.

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A First Look at Rodney’s BigY500 Results – a Third Frazer BigY

I had some good news recently. Rodney’s BigY500 results were in ahead of schedule.

Rodney’s Genealogy

Here is Rodney with other Frazer that have had YDNA testing. Paul, Rodney and Jonathan have taken the BigY test and Rick has taken the STR test.

Frazer SNPs

Currently, the SNP that defines this whole Frazer line is R-YP6489. This is part of the R1a group. With the addition of Rodney to BigY testing, we should be able to get a new SNP that defines the James Line Branch and more specifically, the Thomas Henry Frazer Branch. This testing is bringing us into relatively modern times.

Paul Compared to Rodney and Jonathan

When I compare my cousin Paul to Rodney and Jonathan I see this:

Paul has these Non-Matching Variants compared to Rodney and Jonathan:

  • 7947875
  • 8162400
  • 16784516
  • 20957961
  • 21457649

These are likely Variants on Paul’s side (the Archibald Line) which are not on the James Line side of the Frazer tree. The problem with these Variants is that they will not be named as SNPs unless someone else tests positive for them. There are two ways that this could happen. One would be that Rick (from the Archibald Line) takes a BigY test. Or, tests could be requested for each of the variants above and Rick (or another Archibald direct line male descendant) could test for the individual SNPs once there is a test protocol.

Looking for the James Line Variant

Where is the Variant or Variants that will define the James Line? Here is what Rodney’s niece Kim sent me. This is how Rodney compares to Jonathan and Paul. The comparison is by non-matching variants which is a bit confusing. The non-match could be on Rodney’s side, Joanathan’s or Paul’s sides:

 

What I am looking for is where Rodney does not match Paul. I want these to not include the Variants that I have listed above representing the Archibald Line. That leaves:

  • ZS3186
  • 20102008

These would be potential candidates for the James Line

Here are Jonathan’s matches:

These appear to be unique to Jonathan:

  • BY26998
  • BY28746
  • BY28749
  • BY28761
  • F4038
  • ZS3186
  • 11718822
  • 11720223

I was hoping that these lists would match up better. Rodney’s results have been uploaded to YFull for analysis, but the analysis is not yet done. It could be that there is an issue on how these variants were reported. The only Variant in common is ZS3186. However, this is a named variant which would probably not be used for a new branch.

Further, Jonathan has this list of Unnamed Variants:

Here it seems we are dealing with a lot of double negatives. Jonathan’s results report Variant 11103209. As this is not on Jonathan’s list of Non-matching Variants, should I assume that Jonathan has this variant in common with Rodney and Paul? I’m confused.

Here is Paul’s list of unnamed variants:

This matches pretty well with my original list for Paul, but it does not include 20957961.

ZS3186

ZS3186 was shared by Rodney and Jonathan but not Paul. However, this is already named. The YBrowse website has this information:

This was found in 2014 but never added to a YTree. It is in the J1 Haplogroup. For this reason, this SNP may be not considered good. Or, it may be determined that the original sample was in error(?) Again, we need some help from FTDNA or YFull in figuring this one out.

Variant 20102008

I had listed this Variant above. Is this the defining James Line Variant? This is not on Paul’s list of unnamed variants. This is good as Paul is from the Archibald LIne. 20102008 is shown as a non-matching variant between Paul and Rodney, so that leads me to believe that Rodney has this variant. However, 20102008 is not a non-matching variant between Paul and Jonathan. This would lead me to believe that Jonathan does not have this variant.

Frazer Variant Summary

This left me a bit confused, so I found out Rodney’s Unnamed Variants. Here is a summary of the three tested Frazers:

Hopefully, I can explain the inconsistencies in blue. The first row is YP6489. All the Frazers have this SNP and it currently defines the project.

Variant 1103209

The second row shows that Jonathan has Variant 11103209. This is actually a double discrepancy. Rodney and Paul do not show this Variant listed on their results but neither do they show this as an non-matching variant with Jonathan. Here is what I believe happened. The results for Rodney and Paul were inconclusive. As a result, the first go at looking at this variant was not enough to list this variant for Rodney and Paul. However, due to the uncertainty, it could not be clearly said that this was a non-matching variant between Jonathan and Rodney and Jonathan and Paul. By looking at the raw test data, it may be better to come up with a better analysis. Right now, this does not look like a defining Variant for the James line if there is some question as to whether Paul has this Variant.

Variants 11718822 and 11720223

These Variants appear to be Jonathan’s private SNPs. Jonathan is positive for them, but Paul and Rodney are not. That means that these likely formed in Jonathan, his father or grandfather after the time of Rodney and Jonathan’s common ancestor Thomas Henry Frazer born 1836. Once YFull has done their analysis, they will give an estimated date of SNP formation and an estimated date of common ancestor. The SNP formation is always the older date. In this case, we know the date of the common ancestor: 1836.

More on Dating

While I’m on the subject of dating. Here is the present Frazer tree going back over 3,000 years:

Jonathan and Paul are at the bottom of this YFull YTree. Based on their BigY testing alone, it was estimated that the SNP YP6489 was formed 800 years ago and that Paul and Jonathan had a common ancestor 475 years ago. This is to illustrate that the SNP formation is before the common ancestor. Going up one step is YP6488. This was formed 1050 years ago. There was a common ancestor there 800 years ago. I assume that this date fits into the formation date of YP6489 800 years ago.

Paul’s Private Variants – The Archibald Line

Paul has four private variants. These formed in the Archibald line between the time of Archibald Frazer born around 1690. The Archibald Line needs another person to test to have some of these Variants named as defining SNPs for the Archibald Line.

Rodney’s Variants

Rodney’s first Variant 2012008 has a question mark under Jonathan. That means that there is some question on Jonathan’s read. However, the fact that Paul was negative for this Variant makes it looks like this could be the new defining Variant that gets named as the SNP for the James Line. Rodney’s second Variant is common to only him at this time. Like Jonathan, this variant formed in either Rodney, his father or grandfather.

This appears to be Rodney’s only Private Variant:

What’s Next?

Kim has uploaded Rodney’s BigY500 to YFull for further analysis. YFull will get this information onto their tree. They will give age estimations and produce 500 STRs from the results. FTDNA will also be doing further analysis on the results. In addition, the R1a administrators will take a look at the results. However, they will like be interested in seeing what FTDNA and YFull have to say.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Rodney’s results show that there are some clear SNPs that could be added to define the Archibald Line. However, as Paul is the only Archibald LIne BigY500 tested person right now, these SNPs will not be named.
  • The James Line results are not as clear. Interpretaion of the results are needed. It is likely that Variant 2012008 will be a new defining SNP for the James Line for the Frazer DNA Project. It appears that this SNP occured between James Frazer born about 1720 and Thomas Henry Frazer born 1836.
  • We need to wait and see if FTDNA and YFull come up with further analysis.
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Another Frazer Joins YDNA Testing

Joanna, who has had her brother tested for the BigY. informed me of a new YDNA match for the Frazer family. This is big news when a new Frazer match appears. The new match is Richard.

Some of Richard’s YDNA Matches

Here Richard shows up as the fifth match to my cousin Paul:

The new tester, Richard, has tested for 37 STRs. The first three on the list are known to be related to each other by genealogy. Those three and Paul all have ancestors from Northern County Roscommon by the early 1700’s.  Here is how they are related as best we can figure:

How Richard Shows Up on Jonathan’s List

Richard shows up as a Genetic Distance (GD) of 2 on Jonathan’s list. On Paul’s list, Richard has a GD of 4.

More YDNA Comparisons – YDNA TIP Report

On Jonathan’s match list, I ran the ‘TIP’ report. This is an estimation of how far away Richard and Jonathan’s common ancestor is:

This report makes it look like Jonathan and Richard are related in the not too distant past. The likelihood that Jonathan and Richard have a common ancestor in the last 5 generations is close to 90%. A 67 STR test would give better results as it is possible that Jonathan and Richard have more STR differences in the second tier of STRs. If these results are born out, there would be a good chance that Richard’s ancestors were from North County Roscommon Ireland.

TIP Report for Richard and Paul

If Richard is from the James Line of the Frazer Tree, then I would expect that Paul would be 6 generations to the common ancestor of James.

Looking at Richard’s STRs

One thing that jumped out at me was STR 447:

Those in green have a Frazer or Frasher ancestor. They also have a 447 STR of 24. All those above are Grant, Chisum, Hayes or Whittaker and have a STR value of 25 or higher. That could mean that among families that are closely related to the Frazers, the Frazers alone have a STR of 24 at this location. This gives me some confidence that Richard is related to our line of Frazers. The question then becomes whether his ancestors were in North County Roscommon or whether our common ancestor goes further back to Scotland.

STR 391

Another interesting STR is 391. Rick and Paul are both on the Archibald Line and have a STR value of 11:

Jonathan and Rodney are known to be on the James Line and have a STR value of 10.

This shows that the first Frazer known to be in North County Roscommon had a STR value of 10 at location 391. Somewhere on the Archibald Line on the left between the first Archibald and James born around 1804, the value of that STR changed from 10 to 11. This doesn’t prove that Richard is from the James Line as Grants, Chisum, Whittaker and Hayes also have a 391 value of 10,

Frasher and Frizelle

Jonathan also matches a Frizelle at 37 STRs at a GD of 1. Putting Jonathan and Frizelle into the TIP report also shows a probable close relationship. The Frizelle that Jonathan matches by YDNA has an ancestor of William Frizelle. I wonder if there is a connection between this William Frizelle and Richard’s William Frasher.

Further Options for Richard

Richard may want to upgrade to the 67 STR test. An autosomal DNA test would also be interesting to see if he matches anyone in the Frazer DNA Project. The autosomal test would be the less expensive option. If Richard is from the James Line, it is likely that the autosomal test would reveal that. If no matches with the Frazer DNA Project show up in the autosomal DNA test, then further YDNA testing may be of further use.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Richard’s recent YDNA test appears to show a pretty close relationship to Frazers from North Roscommon County, Ireland
  • Autosomal DNA testing, if taken, could reveal more matches to those already in the Frazer DNA Project for descendants of those Frazers from North Roscommon
  • Richard shares a STR that has been found to be unique to the Frazers up to this point
  • There is also a Frizelle who has found to be fairly closely related by YDNA to the North Roscommon Frazers, however his results have not been posted to my knowledge
  • It will be interesting to see what additional genealogy or DNA testing will reveal
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The John Line of the Frazers and Marilee’s DNA

This is a follow-up on a previous Blog I wrote on the John Line. At that time, I found Marilee as a Frazer match at MyHeritage. Marilee has kindly agreed to upload her DNA to Gedmatch where I can compare her results to others in the Frazer DNA Project.

The John Frazer Line

If I have my genealogy right, John was the eldest known son of Archibald Frazer. I have John born around 1755 or 1757. Some researchers have him born as late as 1775. However, that would cause a problem with John’s son who Marilee has as being born in 1779.

 

Marilee’s Line is on the left. She is the lone known DNA tested person in the line. I have that John had four children. One of them was Archibald who Marilee has as her second great grandfather. Archibald had another John who emigrated. This John would be a pivotal person in the research of the John Frazer Line. The previous research that I have done did not go down from John.

More on John Frazer, Immigrant

Here is what Marilee has to say:

I know my Frazer ancestor emigrated from Ireland in 1850 and settled first in Niagara Falls, Ontario Canada, and then Lockport, New York, which is in Niagara County, New York. 

As I don’t have information on this line, I created a Frazer Tree at Ancestry. Here is Marilee’s grandfather and great-grandfather in the 1870 Census living in Lockport, NY:

Here the name is listed as Fraser.

In 1860, John was a Hotel Keeper:

It looks like John managed a staff of six. It appears from the birth of the children, that the family moved to New York about 1850.

I also found this monument at Ancestry:

The 1855 New York Census shows that the family had been in Lockport for four years:

That means that they would not be in the 1850 US Census and may not be in the Canadian 1851 Census. If Marilee is right and this family emigrated to Ireland in 1850, they wouldn’t have had much time in Canada. However, If John and Sarah had John in 1849 in Canada, they could have emmigrated in 1848 or 1849. Then there is the question of where did John and Sarah marry? I did find one tree that had the couple marrying in Ireland which probably makes sense.

Marilee’s DNA

One of the hopes of DNA testing is that it might shore up our genealogical research or point us in new directions for research. Let’s look at Marilee’s DNA.

Mystery Match With Bob

One of the first things I noticed on Marilee’s match list was a match with Bob. He looked familiar. Here is the match they have:

By DNA, it would look like Bob and Marilee are 2nd cousins once removed. Bob’s great-grandmother was Jane or Jennie McPartland. I have written many blogs on the McPartlands. I’m not sure if they have included Bob. Here is a portion of Bob’s tree at Ancestry:

Here is how Bob is related to other McPartlands:

It is no mystery that Bob is a 2nd cousin to Charlene and 3rd cousin to Karen and Chris. The mystery is why he shows as a pretty close DNA match to Marilee. Perhaps Bob and Marilee are related on a non-Frazer Line? Perhaps the Ann above is a daughter of Marilee’s 2nd great-grandfather Archibald Frazer?

Marilee also matches with Karen here:

For Bob, Karen and Marilee to triangulate, Bon would have to match Karen on Chromosome 7 in th same area. He does:

The closest place that Karen and Bob match are at Owen McPartland and Ann Frazer. As far as I know, Marilee has no McPartland ancestors, so that would point to the Frazer side.

In addition Brian, who I believe is Chris’ brother matches Marilee on Chromosome 7:

Marilee and Bonnie

The next person I notice going down Marilee’s match list is Bonnie. Bonnie is in the James Line of the Frazer DNA Project.

On the Frazer Chart, Bonny and Marilee would be 6th cousins. Here is their DNA match:

This is another mystery. By DNA this connection could indicate a 3rd cousin or 3rd cousin once removed.

A More Rational DNA Approach

So far, I have checked a few random matches for Marilee. These seem to indicate that she matches a McPartland that marred a Frazer and someone on the James Line of the Frazers even though Marilee’s genealogy shows she is on the Archibald Line of the Frazers.

Here is how Marilee matches others on the Archibald Line of the Frazers:

Marilee is on the top row. She matches me and some of my siblings over 15 cM. This could be a Frazer match or possibly a McMaster match. Marilee matches Michael at over 15 cM. She also matches Jamie who has a Frazer/Johnston background.

Here is how Marilee matches Frazer descendants from the James Frazer Line:

As noted above, Marilee has a good match with Bonnie. I notice that there appears to be a Stewart on the Michael Line. Marilee mentioned the Stewart name. Marilee has a pretty good match with Beverly also but a bit more with Charlotte. I note that both Charlotte and Marilee have a Jane White in their ancestry. Apparently two different Jane Whites. Charlotte’s great-grandmother is Ismena Jane White. Marilee has her third great-grandmother as Jane White.

Marilee and Triangulation

If Marilee triangulates with two people that are in the Frazer DNA Project. That means that those three people should have a common ancestor.  Above, I showed that Marilee triangulates with at least two people in the McPartland Group. That means that they have a common ancestor. I checked to see if the two Triangulation Groups (TGs) that Marilee is in has already beenidentified by my previous research. It appears that these are new TGs.

Next, I’ll look at Marilee compared to all the Archibald Line DNA-tested descendants. As I looked through the results, I found one TG:

The TG involves Marilee, Bob, me and my two younger sisters. That means that we have a common ancestor. It would take some fancy guesswork to figure out who that common ancestor is.

I checked also on the James Line for TGs, but didn’t see any.

One Guess on the Marilee, McPartland, Frazer Connection

In a previous Blog, I had supposed that my connection to the McPartland Family could look like this:

Under this scenario, Bob would have been connected to my family – above represented by my sister Heidi. This seems a bit convoluted. However, my second great-grandmother was Margaret McMaster. Her mother was also a McMaster named Fanny. Her mom was Margaret Frazer. I had supposed that Margaret could have been the sister of the Ann Frazer that married Owen McPartland. I further supposed that this Frazer could have been born around 1780. I notice that Marilee’s second great-grandfather was Archibald Frazer born 1779 and married to Jane White.

 

Above is a possible scenario that could fit the DNA. The clrcles and the lines represent the TG with a possible set of common ancestors. What if my Margaret Frazer was the daughter of Marilee’s Archibald and the sister of the Ann Frazer who married Owen McPartland? That would be one way to tie the families together. That would make Marilee and Bob third cousins, once removed and me and Marilee third cousins three times removed.

Let’s see if that is even possible. Bob and Marilee shared almost 111 cM. Here is part of a chart of ranges of DNA for fourth cousins:

127 is the highest expected match for a fourth cousin. That means that Bob and Marilee would be near the top of that range. My two younger sisters and I matched Marilee at 16 or 17 cM. That is a little below average for a fourth cousin, two times removed. I would be a fourth cousin twice removed to Bob under that above scenario. My two sisters match Bob at about 8 or 9.5 cM.

Perhaps someone will come forward with a more obvious explanation.

Occupants of Derrycastle 1834

Here is the Tithe Applotment for 1834 in Derrycastle:

My guess is that Archy is Marilee’s ancestor. John could have been his brother. William could have been his other brother. George, Philip and James could have been the sons of Philip. I believe that James was my ancestor.

Here is a map of the area:

 

The Tithe Applotment mentions Archy of Shan which would be Shanvoley. Dereenargan is where the McPartlands lived later. There were also at least one Frazer and McMaster living in Dereenargan at the time of Griffith’s Valuation. I discussed this previously here.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Marilee had a surprising DNA match with Bob – a McPartland/Frazer descendant.
  • Given what we knew of the genealogy, the size of the DNA match did not make a lot of sense
  • Bob, Marilee, and three in my family triangulated which means that we have a common ancestor.
  • I looked at some of my past DNA analysis of the McPartland/Frazer connection and came up with a possible scenario to explain the triangulation. This explanation would have Bob, Marilee and me descending from Marilee’s 2nd great grandfather, Archibald Frazer, born 1779 who married Jane White.
  • This explanation is further supported by the proximity the families. However, the genealogical evidence appears to be lacking.
  • This theory may have other DNA evidence added to it in the future or more genealogical evidence may come to light to disprove my guess or to add weight to it.
  • If I am right in my guess, I would have found my third Frazer line which was missing and the McPartland Frazer Line which was missing.
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A New DNA Match in Marilee and a New Frazer Line

I was searching for Frazer matches at MyHeritage recently and came across Marilee. I thought it unlikely that she would be matching on the same Frazer line that I have going back to County Roscommon, Ireland. However, when I looked at her tree, I saw this:

Marilee shows that she descends from John Frazer of Roscommon. Not only does Marilee show that she is related to me, she shows that she is on a Frazer Line that has not been found to be DNA tested yet. That is great news.

Marilee and Frazer Genealogy

The John Frazer Line is shown here in some Frazer research that was done before I was born:

John is shown as the eldest son of Archibald at the top left of the image above. The Frazer DNA Project has people from the Philip, Richard and Archibald Lines, but Marilee is the first from the John Line. This is like finding a lost tribe.

Dating the Archibald Line of the Frazers

The above hand-written tree was done for a coat of arms for a Frazer that was issued in 1952. The birth dates were given for the four brothers as 1757, 1758, 1759 and 1760.  Originally I had followed this early research which had the first known Archibald, born in about 1690 having two sons. The first son was  Archibald who married Mary Lillie and the younger son was James . It was the Archibald who married Mary Lillie that was shown as having the four sons above. Other researchers felt that there needed to be another Archibald in the line for the dates to work out. I added that extra Archibald but never felt all that comfortable doing that. That change also required having later birth dates for the four sons. As a result, perhaps, Marilee’s tree shows John’s first son born when he was two years old!

The Elphin Census of 1749

The first good record I have of North Roscommon Frazers is in the Elphin Census. This is what it shows:

Let’s assume that this represents the situation for the Frazer family in Aghrafinegan, North Roscommon Ireland in 1749. We believe that Archibald had four sons. That means that he had at least four children. The Census shows that Archibald had three children under 14 and none over 14. That makes me believe that these children were on the young side of 14 and that there were children yet to be born .

The Added Archibald

That must be what lead to the researcher’s interpretation that there needed to be another Archibald:

Under this scenario, the Archibald that married Mary Lillie (or Lilly) was not the son of Archibald born around 1690, but his grandson. He was not only the eldest son, but th eldest child.

The One Archibald Scenario – My Preference

There could be many explanations for the Elphin Census. It is possible that none of the children in the Census were the four brothers. That would have to be case if the birth dates of 1757-1760 were right in the early research. Let’s assume under the one Archibald scenario, that Mary Lilly was the mother of all the children. Let’s also say that she may have had children over a time span of 20 years or so. I’ll guess she got married at the age 20 and had children until about the age of 40. I’ll give her 5 years to get married and have three children. That would put their marriage at 1744. I’ll say Archibald was born in 1720 and his brother was born around 1722. If Mary was 20 at the time of her marriage in 1744, then she could have had children until about 1764 or so. If Marilee’s tree is right, then John had a son in 1777. Let’s say John was 22 at the birth of Stuart. That would mean that John would have been born 1755. That is a lot of supposin’, but I would start the four sons’ birth dating at 1755. The other three sons’ births could be spread out between 1755 and 1764 or so.

Further Supposin’

Let’s look at Archibald and James’ parents. Let’s say that Mary was 22 when Archibald was born. I had Archibald born in 1720. That would put her birth at 1698. Then she would have been a 51 year old widow in 1749. Perhaps her husband was two years older than her and was born in 1696. I’ll say he died about 1745 at the age of 49.

John Line Added to the Frazer DNA Tree

This is my tree of the Archibald Branch of Frazers that have had their DNA tested:

Marilee’s eldest John Line is added on the left in pink.  I cut off some of the Archinbald/Stinson Line of the right. I also updated the birth dates for the top two rows. The addition of the John Line to the Frazer DNA Tree is a big deal as the John Line represents 25% of the DNA of these four brothers.

From this tree, Marilee is my 5th cousin once removed. From the configuration of the three, it looks like Marilee’s closest Frazer relative should be a 5th cousin.

I didn’t check Marilee’s genealogy. It wouldn’t hurt for someone to check to see if they come up with the same results she did.

I’m glad I got a new, larger screen on my computer. This is the overall Frazer Project:

This is actually a simplified view as the yellow and blue lines are much bigger. Also the yellow line should be in there three times and the blue line two times. The James line is in white on the right.

Marilee’s DNA

Marilee’s DNA test results are at MyHeritage, so I will only be able to compare her results with those results that I have uploaded to MyHeritage. Let’s see how Marilee compares. I’ll start:

I have a match with Marilee on Chromosome 7 and a small match on Chromosome 20. I can add those to DNA Painter, however, I will have to lower the threshold for the Chromosome 20 match as it is only 6.7 cM.

Here is the view on my DNA Painter Map. I circled the new segments from Marilee that represent Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly.  Green represents my Hartley side. So on Chromsome 7 and 20, these matches are at important places. They represent where my DNA crossed over from my Frazer Grandmother to my Hartley grandfather.

On Chromosome 20, the brown represents my 2nd great grandparents George Frazer and Margaret McMaster.

Where my DNA goes from brown to mustard could be where my DNA crossover went from McMaster to Frazer. There are other possibilities.

Marilee’s DNA Compared to My Siblings

I didn’t see that Marilee had a match with my sister Heidi. Sharon has a match. Sharon’s match was similar to the match I have with Marilee, except it is a little smaller on Chromosome 7 and I didn’t see a match on Chromosome 20. I didn’t see a match between my brother Jonathan and Marilee. My sister Lori’s match with Marilee appears to be identical with mine.

While I was at it, I checked if my cousin Paul and my more distant cousin Gladys matched Marilee, but they did not. So that is it for the DNA comparison for now. The genealogy part was more interesting than the DNA in this case.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It was great to come upon Marilee through her DNA match. Finding a DNA match with someone from the John Line is like finding a lost tribe or city. I have been looking at the DNA for about three years and Marilee is the first DNA-tested John Frazer Lline descendant that I have found.
  • While looking at the John Line, I also streamlined the Archibald Line by taking out an extra Archibald that was added previously.
  • I see why the extra Archibald was added based on an interpretation of the Elphin Census of 1749. However, I see how that extra Archibald is not needed by another interpretation of the Elphin Census.
  • Marilee matches three out of five in my family. By the tree, we would be 5th cousins, once removed. That is pretty far out for a DNA  match.
  • I am hoping that Marilee will be able to get her DNA uploaded to Gedmatch.com. Then, I can take a look to see how she matches all the people in the Frazer DNA project.
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A New Frazer Tested for YDNA

People say that YDNA is complicated. It is not too complicated. YDNA gets passed on from father to son unchanged. Except it does change on average about once every 144 years or so. That reminds me of how to have a good lawn. Plant grass seed. Wait 100 years and you will have a good lawn.

Rodney Added to the Frazer YDNA Tree

 

There is some confusion on the Archibald line (left side)  as to whether there should be two Archibalds or one under the top Archibald. Some researchers added one to make the dates look better, but I am thinking of taking one back out. For example, an alternate tree has one Archibald but has Philip born 1758 instead of 1776.

Here is the alternate tree:

 

If nothing else, the symmetry is better on this one.

Rodney’s STRs

Rodney tested for 111 STRs. That is a good amount. Jonathan also tested for 111 STRs. Rick and Paul tested 67. STRs are Short Random Repeats. These are repeats of certain markers on the YDNA. They may increase or decrease every so many 100’s or 1,000’s of years. Some markers change faster than others. Over a large amount of time these markers could go up or down and we wouldn’t know it as we weren’t around 1,000 years ago to test them. However, this tree only goes back to about 1690 or so, so we shouldn’t have to worry about that.

Rodney’s Vs Jonathan on the Thomas Henry Line

Jonathan’s sister asked me about Rodney and Jonathan’s STR comparisons. Rodney and Jonathan had a perfect match at 67 STRs but a one difference at 111 STRs. That was because their only difference was between STR 68 and 111. The actual marker for this difference is at DYS552. Rodney has a value of 24 and Jonathan has a value of 25. That means that Jonathan has one more Short Random Repeat compared to Rodney. Out of all the STRs, that is the one that distinguishes Rodney’s Line from Jonathan’s line.

Which Line Changed: William or Edward Fitzgerald?

And does it matter? It would be nice to know who changed, because that would mean either 24 or 25 would be ancestral, meaning that Thomas Henry either had 24 or 25 for that marker and one of the lines changed. I did not have the 111 STR test done for my cousin Paul, but he has taken the BigY. When he had that test done, I uploaded his results to YFull and they extracted some of the STRs from the BigY test. Unfortunately, the extraction from the BigY test does not get good reads for all the STRs. Fortunately, Paul did get a result for DYS552. He had a result of 25.

That means that 25 is likely the ancestral value. 25 would also likely be the value for Archibald Frazer born around 1690.

This is the way I’ve heard STRs explained. Pretend at every conception along the male line through the ages, the YDNA is going through a copying machine. All the different STRs are being copied. Every three generations or so, one of the 111 STRs has a copying error and one more copy or one less copy is made. In Rodney’s case, one less copy must have been made of DYS552 in either Rodney, Rodney’s dad or his grandfather, William Frazer.

There is one implication concerning the mutation in Rodney’s line. When Paul is compared to Rodney and Jonathan, it looks like he is more distantly related to Rodney than Jonathan. These differences are called GDs or Genetic Distances. However, based on the tree, Paul is related no more closely or further away from either Rodney or Jonathan.

It’s Simple

That is why I said at the top that YDNA is easy. Rodney and Jonathan have a common ancestor of Thomas Henry Frazer born 1836. Jonathan and Rodney have a GD of 1. That means that change happened after Thomas Henry Frazer as he had only one value for each of his 111 STRs. Because we know Paul’s result for DYS552, we know Thomas Henry Frazer’s value at location DYS552. There is only one catch. It is possible for STRs to go up and down. What if DYS552 changed more than once since 1690? This would be highly unlikely. If DYS552 was a fast-moving STR or if there were several thousands of years to the common ancestor, this would be more likely, but that is not the case here.

The Bigger Picture

Using the same principles, I should be able to get some ancestral values for our common ancestor, Archibald Frazer. However, let’s start with a smaller part of the Archibald tree, like we did on the James Line.

Here is Rick and Paul on the Archibald Line of the Frazer YDNA tree. Where Rodney and Jonathan had 3 generations to have YDNA changes from their common ancestor, Paul has 4 generations and Rick has 5 generations from their common ancestor of James Frazer born about 1804.

Rick has taken the 67 STR test but not the BigY test. Paul has taken the 67 STR test and the BigY test. As a result, he has some results from the 111 STR test, but is missing many of the STR markers between 68 and 111. Here are the differences between Paul and Rick:

Getting the Ancestral STR Values

Now I want to know what values James had for his STRs for 444 and 576. These are the values that Rodney and Jonathan have going up to the orignal Frazer ancestor born around 1690.

That means that Rick’s STR of 444 went down one repeat from 14 to 13 and Paul’s  STR of 576 went up from 18 to 19.

Putting it Together

Now we know that Archibald , born about 1690 had 444 = 14, 576 = 18 (oops, typo above) and 552 = 25. However, there are two other differences from the Archibald Line and the James Line.  It will be easier to show this on a tree:

Now there is a tie, so how do we tell which values are ancestral? (That should be CDY above.) In order to figure out the ancestral values, we have to go outside the Frazer project and bring in some more distant relatives: Grant, Hayes, and Stewart. Fortunately, I have already done this in a previous Frazer YDNA Blog:

This shows the ancestral value to be 391 = 10 and CDY = 35-38. Now we have our five ancestral values for Archibald.

Here is the final Frazer STR Tree:

 

Observations:

  • If I drew this right, Jonathan has no mutations going back to Archibald, born about 1690.
  • Paul and Rick both have three mutations going back from the same Archibald.
  • There are more mutations on the Archibald Line than the James Line, but they average out.
  • Paul and Rick have a GD of 2. That represents differences in marker 444 and 576.
  • Paul has a GD of three compared to Rodney and Jonathan. This is based on markers 391, CDY and 444. 552 was not counted as Paul did not test at FTDNA for 552.
  • This tree contains some 67 STR results and some 111 STR resuilts.
  • Other direct male Frazer descendants that have YDNA STR tests should be able to tell what branch of the Frazer tree they are in based on this tree.
  • This gives an idea of how the mutations occur. There were two mutations that happened rather quickly between about 1690 and 1804 on the Archibald Line. So that was one every 57 years.  Rodney had one mutation. I’m not sure when he was born, but let’s say one mutation in 260 years. Let’s say Paul and Rick had a mutation about once per 87 years. An average between Paul or Rick and Rodney would be about one mutation in 173 years. This is comparing a bit of apples and oranges as some tested at 67 STRs and some tested at 111. I don’t know how to average Jonathan in as he has no known mutations.

 

Dating Using the McDonald TMRCA Calculator

Rodney and Jonathan

That should say generations at the bottom. Jonathan and Rodney have a common ancestor at three generations.  This calculator’s first choice for a GD of one at 111 markers is 2 generations away. Three generations would be the third choice.

Paul and Rick

This graph tops out at 5 generations. Paul and Rick are 4.5 generations away from a common ancestor, so that is close enough.

Paul Compared to Rodney (and Jonathan)

Paul and Rodney are 7 generations to a common ancestor. At least they are on the tree without the extra Archibald. This shows 8 as the first choice, but almost the same chance as being 7 generations away. Rick and Rodney should be at the same genetic distance (GD) and they show as 7.5 generations away from a common ancestor. These would also apply to the matches between Rick, Paul and Jonathan.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Rodney’s YDNA test has added some symmetry to the Frazer YDNA Tree
  • The YDNA test does not appear to be precise enough to tell us if the Archibald tree is correct or not. Either configuration would be reasonable based on the YDNA.
  • The Frazer STR tree sets down some results that places the four tested Frazer descendants in their different branches.
  • A Frazer that is unsure of his branch would be able to test his STRs and find out which branch he is in.

 

 

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Walking the Streets of the Boston of My Ancestors and Relatives

In my previous Blog, I looked at the early married life of my great-grandparents James Archibald Frazer and Margaret Clarke in some detail. I also looked at where they had their photos taken and where James lived and worked in the 1890’s. In this Blog, I would like to show some connections leading up to my great-grandparents’ arrival in Boston by using maps and City Directories.

Frazer, Clarke and McMaster

These three families were inter-related. Also the Frazer and McMaster families were related in County Sligo, Ireland. I would like to pull these three families together as they lived in Boston. Here are some examples of the inter-relatedness of these Boston families:

  • William McMaster married Catherine Clarke 1882
  • James Archibald married Margaret Clarke. James was William’s nephew. Margaret was Catherine’s sister.
  • Celia Clarke married Edward McMaster in 1876. Celia was Catherine and Margaret’s older sister. I believe that Edward and William were first cousins.

It is a bit confusing.

The McMasters

Edward McMaster was the first that I have a record of to make it from County Sligo to Boston. According to Edward’s Naturalization records, he made it to Boston in 1868:

McMaster and Clarke in 1880

Here is the 1880 Census

Edward and Celia are living in the same house as Charles McGarry (here shown as McGeary) and Celia Clarke. Charles was a furniture dealer. Edward was a Hack Driver.

The elder Celia Clarke was the Aunt of the Celia married to Edward McMaster. Here is a partial Clarke tree:

Those in green have had their DNA tested. The two Celia’s are on the top left of the tree. It would stand to reason that the elder Celia came to the US prior to the younger one. A family story says that Charles McGarry was Roman Catholic and that they left for the US due to the scandal of a Protestant and Catholic marrying.

The North Boston Years

Here is a map of Margin Street from 1877. Margin is between the green 12 and the two red smudges below. Later in the Blog I show that 23 Margin Street where the McGarry and McMaster family lived was to the right of the letter “N.” on the Street (below Cooper).

I suppose some of these buildings on North Margin are the same or similar to those in 1880:

There were four families living at 23 North Margin Street in 1880. It looks like there could be about four floors in these buildings.

Going Back in Time – McGarry’s

I said that I was going to use the City Directory and maps. Here is Charles in 1869:

I feel confident that this is the same Charles McGarry based on the spelling of his last name and his profession. I am having a bit of trouble interpreting the entry. I assume that he works a J. Nealon & Co. at 135 Endicott. Endicott is one street to the West of North Margin. It appears that Charles lived still at 23 South Margin, but I’m unclear as to what 26 Charlestown refers to. I assume that 23 South Margin and 23 North Margin Street are the same place(?)

Let’s see if the 1870 Directory clarifies things:

Now there are three Charles’. It appears that our Charles was at 23 South Margin. Then there is another Charles who lives and works at 135 Endicott Street. Current day Grimes Street is in South Boston. So that means that there were two Charles McGarry’s living in the same area. Our Charles did not work at 135 Endicott, but worked at 26 Charlestown Street.

A Clue in the 1871 Directory

Here is page 190 of the Boston Business Directory:

This looks to be the same Charles that lived at 23 South or North Margin Street in the North End of Boston. I needed to pan out on the 1877 Fire Insurance Map:

So Charles, based on the 1880 Census was a furniture dealer. It appears that his place of business was on Charlestown Street. From what I can tell Charleston Street is now North Washington St.

This appears to be the same Charles in the 1864 Boston Business Directory:

If my connections are correct, then Charles would have come to the US a while before 1864. I assume that it took him a while to build up a business.

I am still going backwards in time. Here is the McGarry couple in 1860:

Charles’ holdings at $1200 are substantial compared to his neighbor who had $20 to his name. Most had nothing listed next their name. For some reason, I could not find the McGarry family in the 1870 Census.

Going back 5 years, could this be Charles, Celia and Charles’ mother Bridget in the 1855 State Census?

This Charles was listed as a laborer. To fill in the gaps, here is Charles in 1857:

The Boston Almanac for the year 1861 gives a bit more detail Here are some listings for Charlestown Street:

This gets to our walk through Boston. Imagine walking down Charlestown Street North towards Charlestown. McGarry’s Furniture would be the last business on the right before coming to Cooper Street. For Charles to get home from work, he would just need to walk down Cooper Street to North Margin. From what I can tell 23 Margin was on the Southeast corner of Cooper and North Margin Streets.

Back to the McMaster Family

Charles McGarry with his wife Celia Clarke probably came to Boston in the 1850’s. Charles established a furniture business. Edward McMaster arrived in Boston about 1868. His future wife Celia Clarke arrived in Boston about 1873. I can’t find the Edward McMaster or McGarry family in the 1870 Census. It seems like Celia Clarke was able to find her Aunt Celia McGarry. As I mentioned above, they were living in the same house at 23 North Margin Street in 1880.

Going back two years to 1878, Edward and family was at 23 North Margin Street:

This was the same year that Edward’s first child was born: Frederick William McMaster. On Frederick’s birth record, his mother’s name is listed as Cecilia.

1876

There were not a lot of listings for McMaster in 1876, so I’ll show them all:

This is certainly the Edward that married Celia Clarke later in 1876.

This appears to be 93 West Cedar Street where Edward lived before he married.

West Cedar was  across Town from Margin Street. The question now is when and where did Edward meet Celia? I didn’t see a listing for Celia in the 1876 directory. Perhaps she was already living at North Margin Street?

William McMaster

William’s naturalization record says that he arrived in this country on 1 May 1869. I don’t believe that he is the same person as the liquor dealer mentioned in the 1876 Boston City Directory. Here is a photo of William McMaster and his wife Catherine Clarke.

Probably taken around 1882. Reverse of picture indicates that they were engaged “about 1881” and married October 5, 1882.

 

Here is a document from 1879.

This says that William was a cook and that he arrived at New York. I’ll check the 1879 Boston Directory to see if William McMaster is there. In 1879 there are still few by the McMaster name.

Edward McMaster married Celia Clarke in 1876. Perhaps our William is the McMasters living at 15 Grenville place. However, I don’t know where this is and it does not give a profession for William. William did marry Catherine Clarke in 1882. At that time he was also listed as a cook.

William and Edward 1889

Here is a snapshot of two McMaster families. West Cedar sounds familiar.

Edward McMaster (and Celia Clarke) 1889

At some point Edward has moved out of the McGarry House on North Margin street back to West Cedar where he lived before he was married.

The middle circle is where Edward lived before he married. The bottom circle is hwere the family lived in 1889. Perhaps he wished to be closer to the City Stables. He was after all a driver. There were no cars in that day so he must have driven horses. Did Edward have horse experience from the farm in County Sligo that he was able to use in Boston?

I have to zoom out a little to show North Russell Street where Edward McMaster worked.

North Russell is another street that no longer exists. There is now a Hotel and Whole Foods Market where North Russell Street used to be.

William McMaster (and Catherine Clarke) 1889

This is the first time I have been able to pin down William to a place. He married Catherine, Celia’s younger sister in 1882 and is living at 73 Camden Street in 1889.

Camden Street  brings me back where I left off in my last Blog:

Two years later, in 1891, the directory shows that my great-grandfather James Frazer was living at Gainsborough Street. Gainsborough is on the other side of the tracks from Camden Street. Here are a few McMasters:

The lines that I have carried down have had their DNA tested. I’m guessing that James mother said, “When you get to Boston, make sure you look up my brother, your Uncle William”.

1893 McMaster Update

Before I closed out the 1893 City Directory, I took a peek to see where the McMaster families were. I was a bit surprised:

William the cook was now living at 9 Gainsborough. He moved in when his nephew James Frazer moved out to Westminster Street.

Edward moved from one side of the M.E. (Methodist Episcopal?) Church to the other with his wife and five or six children. In 1895, Edward was listed at 44 Garden Street. I checked the 1900 Census and they were still at 44 Garden Street for the Census. This is a hilly street and one of the streets that I used to do hill training on when I worked in Boston.

Back to Celia Clarke McGarry 1902

Celia Clarke died in 1902 at the home of the Edward McMaster family:

Here we have gone full circle. Celia took in her niece Celia  and family in the 1870’s and now the McMaster family is taking care of the elderly Celia apparently between the time that Charles McGarry died and Celia’s death.

Here is Celia’s will. Celia was the one who started the ball rolling for my family and others by moving to Boston with her husband.

So Where Are We?

  1. Charles McGarry and Celia Clarke leave Ireland after becoming part of a frowned-upon mixed marriage.
  2. Charles apparently does well in the furniture business in the North End of Boston.
  3. Celia Clarke, niece of Celia Clarke McGarry comes to the US after her mother dies. She apparently lives with the McGarry’s.
  4. Celia Clarke marries Edward McMaster, a Hack Driver, who is also from County Sligo and lives on West Cedar Street. They both live for a while in the same house as the McGarry’s in Boston’s North End. The family then moves back to West Cedar Street and Grove Street then to Garden Street in the Beacon Hill area of Boston.
  5. William McMaster who I believe is a first cousin of Edward McMaster arrives in Boston and works as a cook. He marries Celia’s sister Catherine McMaster and they live on Camden Street not far from the current Northeastern University. William signs as a witness on Edward McMaster’s Naturalization Papers.
  6. William’s nephew arrives in Boston in 1887. He is my great-grandfather James Archibald Frazer. He presumably lives with his Uncle until he gets his bearings and finds a job. James then rents a place on Gainsborough Street not far from William. Around the same time James moves from Gainsborough Street to neaby Westminster Street, William moves into the same adress where James lived.
  7. James Frazer marries Margaret Clarke in 1892. Margaret arrives in Boston in 1884 and is the youngest full sister of Celia and Catherine.

Here is Margaret Clarke with an unidentified man and James Frazer on the right.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I have tried to write a summary of some of the events that lead up to some of my Irish relatives’ arrival to Boston and how their lives were connected.
  • This is a bare bones structure and I’m sure some more details could be filled in. For example, what happened to the other Clarke sister, Jane? Why does the marriage record for Catherine Clarke give her father’s name as James and not Thomas?
  • I am doubly related to Edward McMaster/Celia Clarke and William McMaster/Catherine Clarke descendants.
  • James Archibald was a Tea Salesman and later got into real estate. He was preceded by a furniture dealer, a hack driver and a cook.
  • Descendants from Edward McMaster/Celia Clarke have taken a DNA test. I would be even more closely related to descendants of William McMaster/Catherine Clarke. I would like to see some of those descendants take a DNA test.
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Fun with Photos: Clarke, Frazer, McMaster and ? in the 1890’s

In my previous post, I published a book of photos that was in my grandmother’s possession. They were photos taken around the time of my great-grandmother’s short time of being in the US. Margaret Clarke arrived in the US about 1884 at about age 18. She died in 1902 at age 35.

Statistics: Known and Unknown

The photos that I posted can be put into two categories: those that I know and those that I don’t. Most of the known photos were of James Archibald Frazer, born 1867 and his wife Margaret Clarke, born 1866.

  • Known photos – 15
  • Unknown photos – 31
  • Both known and unknown – 2
  • Repeats – 5
  • Missing slot – 1

That means there should be 54 places in the book. There are more than two times the photos that are unknown compared to the recognizable photos. Sometimes there is more than one person that is unknown on a photo.

Known and Unknown

A photo with a known and an unknown should be helpful.

This man in the tintype above also has his own photo here:

My previous guess was that he could have been the best man at my great-grandparents’ wedding.

A Woman with Margaret

This picture appears twice – both in tintype. A guess could be Margaret Clarke’s bridesmaid?

This photo is in the book right after the previous photo. The woman on the right looks to be the same woman as the one with Margaret in the previous photo. In addition, I wonder if these two are sisters as they have similarly shaped faces.

Face Recognition Software

I don’t know how good the software is, but it should be fun to play around with it. I first tried Pictriev. It seemed like photo 33B were two brothers:

These two got an 86% rating:

These two from the same photo that I thought were sisters get a similar rating:

While I was changing over, I still had the man above on the right and the woman on the left. The two got a 0% rating, for comparison.

Here the woman on the left is the one holding the black back with Margaret Clarke.

I thought that these two would be the same, but they got a lower rating. The woman on the left is at a little angle. I don’t know if that is enough to make a difference.

Here is a different combination:

This at least gives a bit of a subjective meter, rather than “I think they look like the same person”.

This woman is still in the 50’s for similarity:

These two did slightly better:

These two women at least scored over 70%:

Tricking PicTriev

Here are two that I am quite sure are both my great grandmother Margaret Clarke:

When I click the identity button, it says that they are not the same person.

Both these photos are straight on, but the score is even worse.

Above is a different score, but PicTriev still says that they are different people.

Here is the highest match so far:

PicTriev still has them as different people. I hadn’t realized that I have three photos of James Frazer without a mustache. I will assume that those are the earliest photos: 3, 6, and 33C.

My conclusion is that PicTriev is fun to play with, but not very accurate.

Photos by Studio

Here is a summary sorted by studio:

CE Beane wins the prize with 9 photographs. Following that are Elmer Chickering and Gray with four each. However, Gray has two different addresses. Perhaps they moved at a certain point. There were two photos taken at Gendron. The rest of the Studios took one photo each.

James Frazer 1892

Here is James in the 1892 directory:

This was the same entry as the year before, so I suppose where he lived while single:

 

Here I mention the James above my James A. as he appears in earlier Directories also as living and working in East Boston. I show this to indicate that it was not my James living in East Boston and working as a steward.

Here is James in 1893, showing his married address:

Here his place of work is not mentioned. Was he out of work or in transition?

Here is how that area looked on the 1888 Directory Map:

To the left of Gainsborough is Northeastern University. It is interesting that my father and I both graduated from this University. 1961 Washington Street is just below the corner of Thorndike Street. Thorndike is one Street to the SW of Newcomb.

Add in the CE Deane Studio

The Street to the bottom of the lower part of the lower circle was Warren Street. Cousin Fred did some research on C.E. Beane:

 

Gray Studio

The Gray Studio was fairly close by also:

I have circled it in purple. Here is some more from Fred:

The Frazer Family 1894

In 1894, now James is not merely boarding as he was in 1892, but has a house:

A peek down below at a later Directory shows that the Wharton Tea House was at 1971 Washington Street.

1895 showed the same entry:

Here is where an old map of Boston comes in handy.

There is no longer a Westminster Street in this area. It appears that when my grandmother was born, the Frazers were living between two photo studios and James’ place of work on Washington Street. I would imagine that 1971 Washington Street where James was either a clerk or a salesman would have been about one building away from 1961 Washington Street.

Oddly the birth record for my grandmother mentions that the family was living at the Hotel Westminster at the time:

With Hotel Westminster in quotes. There was a famous Hotel Westminster at Copley Square:

I can’t imagine that the Frazers were living there.

Elmer Chickering Studio

I would not want to leave out any studio. Elmer Chickering is listed at 21 West Street.

Perhaps while in downtown Boston, the Frazers would have their photos taken. I also circled Temple Place as Ritz Portraits was there. In addition, Margaret Clarke had a photo taken at The Ideal Photo Studio on Washington across from Temple Place. I am familiar with the area as I worked at 1 Winter Street for many years.

21 West Street appears to be vacant but I have eatenat Fajitas and Ritas which is the building on the left.

Gendron – 13 Tremont Row

I had wrongly read this as 13 Tremont, Rox(bury). Interestingly, this was a female photographer, Miss Addie M. Gendron.  Tremont Row also no longer exists. Here is where it was:

This area is in the Sculley Square area that was removed for Government Center. A portion of Boston Common and the State House can be seen in the top left of the map for reference.

The Frazers in 1896

This was the year that George William Frazer was born. At this time, James was listed as a grocer. I would think that the 1997 Directory would better reflect what James was doing in 1996. There are two entries:

My guess is that James A had two jobs. The first one just appears to list the work place. The second entry lists his house. I do think that I recall James being called a tea dealer. Perhaps he bought and sold tea at 1971 Washington Street.

Looks like my guess was wrong. Here is the 1896 Directory:

This shows that there were two James A Frazers. Thankfully, the Boston Athenaeum web site has many Boston City Directories. I wonder if these two James A Frazers knew each other?

Summary and Conclusions

  • I have taken a look at some of the early years of my Frazer and Clarke great-grandparents.
  • I had trouble using one facial recognition program. It didn’t seem very accurate.
  • I looked at the studios where my great-grandparents had their photos taken.
  • I also looked at City Directories locating where James Archibald Frazer lived right before and after he married Margaret Clarke in 1892.
  • Using street maps, I was able to virtually walk the streets of 1890’s Boston with my ancestors.
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My Grandmother’s Picture Book: Frazer, Clarke, McMaster and ?

This should be a different Blog as it will be more on the genealogical side. This is photo book that I recall from my childhood that my grandmother had. It has thick pages, a sort of velour cover with a fancy spring clasp on the right.

I got the idea for this Blog after hearing from Fred. Fred is third cousin on my Clarke Line. My grandmother’s mother was a Clarke. We have the same 2nd great grandparents by the name of Clarke and Spratt. Fred sent me this photo recently.

This was from a small tin type photo that Fred had enlarged and enhanced. According to Fred, “…that appears to me to be a picture of Catherine Clark McMaster, Violet McMaster, George McMaster and Margaret Clark”. This reminded me of the photo book my grandmother had. It had larger photos in the back, but the smaller tin types in the back. I believe that Violet is Fred’s grandmother. He supposed that the photo was taken about 1888. That is interesting, because that would be about four years before Margaret Clarke married my great-grandfather. Margaret probably arrived in the Boston area around 1884 from Ireland at about the age of 18. It would be interesting to find out where she lived before she got married.

The Photo Book

Although I said that this book was my grandmother’s, it has people in it that lived before she was born. The photos seem to favor the Clarke side of the family. My grandmother lost her mother in 1902 when my grandmother was about 8 years old. I’ll try to reproduce the photo book as well as I can.

Page 1

I almost missed the first photo. This photo slipped out of the page easily. Under the photo on the page were the initials Raa. I don’t know if this is random or significant. I might assume that this person was important, being on page 1 of the book. A wild guess would be William McMaster, but I would have to compare this with a known photo.

Here is a photo of William from Fred’s sister’s tree:

This photo is a 3/4 view, so it is difficult to compare. I can’t tell for sure that the two are not the same person.

[Edit: January 2020. I believe that this man is William McMaster 1859-1899. He married Catherine Clarke, the sister of my great-grandmother. This was sent to me by Fred who is a descendant.]

Probably taken around 1882. Reverse of picture indicates that they were engaged “about 1881” and married October 5, 1882.

I take by the note that this is Catherine Clarke in the photo also. This may help in identifying other photos.

Fred also sent me this photo:

This is a better version of the photo above. Fred also sent me a photo I show later in the Blog:

These are William’s children: George, Bert, Fanny and Violet.

While I am off my grandmother’s book, I should bring up this photo which perhaps was in the book:

This is a photo of James Archibald Frazer. I had previously had thought that this was taken after his wife had died and Catherine Clarke’s husband William McMaster had died. However, I now see that James looks too young for that. Also this doesn’t look like the Catherine in the photo above.

Here is a side by side look:

Maybe? Another cosideration is that Catherine married in 1882. James married in 1892. Perhaps the photo on the left is how Catherine looked 10 years later when James married?

Page 2

 

The pages are about 8 inches by 10 inches and the photos are smaller. I’ll try to scan a smaller area.

This is my grandmother’s mother. I am not sure if this would be before, during or after she was married.

Page 3

My guess is that the first two photos could be wedding photos.

PAGE 4

I’m not sure if this is the same woman as the one in the photo from Fred. It looks like I caught a thread of the book in the scan. I know that there was an older Aunt Celia in the area, a sister Celia, Catherine and Margaret. I also thought that there may have been a sister Jane.

Page 5

Margaret again.

Page 6

James Archibald Frazer again. Looks like this could use sume touching up. I haven’t enhanced any of these photos.

Page 7

I’m guessing one of the Clarkes.

Page 8

Margaret Clarke Frazer

Page 9

George William Frazer and her sister ( my grandmother) Marion Margaret Frazer. I seem to remember a large colorized version of this or a similar photo. I don’t know where it ended up.

Page 10

I did enhance this a bit. Another shot of Margaret. My grandmother lost her mother at about age 8, so I’m sure these photos were important to her.

Page 11

I was able to slip this photo out and add a little constrast. My mother’s brother George William was born 1896, so that would put this photo at 1897.

Page 12

This photo was taken at the Elmer Chickering Studio at 21 West St., Boston. I think the original is a bit clearer.

Page 13

Great grandma is stylin’ in this photo.

Page 14

My guess is that these are the same two children that Fred sent me in his tintype picture. If Fred’s photo was 1888, perhaps this was 1889.

Page 15

If I had to guess, I would say another one of the Clarke sisters or Aunt Celia? I quite like the composition whoever it is. It reminds me somewhat of a colonial painting.

Page 16

Again, I am going with my standard Clarke female guess. The man to the left is perhaps a husband? He looks as if he could be a brother, but I have no record of a brother visiting or living here.

Page 17

I’m tempted to call this one the serious baby. I can only assume that this was the baby of one of the Clarke sisters.

Page 18

.

Here is an unusual photo. I might guess that she would have been a maid or nanny for my great grandfather James Frazer. I note that the photo was taken at a different studio. This woman has what appears to be a wedding ring. She is holding a book and has her finger inside the pages as if to say that she is educated. I can’t make out the name of the book except for the word, “power”.

Page 19

I am a bit past halfway in the book.

My guess for this person is Richard Frazer born 1875. According to my web page, ” He married Elizabeth Lenore Rice, daughter of Ivory Fogg Rice and Mary McCartee, on 12 May 1902 at Portsmouth, New Hampshire.” Note that the photo was taken in Portsmout, NH. This could have possibly been a wedding photo.

Page 20 and 21

Page 20 is the same as page 3. Page 21 is the same as page 2. These are the two photos that I supposed to be wedding photos.

Page 22

Can’t have too many photos of one’s great grandfather.

Page 23

Here I’m leaning toward business associate. Here are a few guesses from James’ Naturalization papers dated 18 October 1905:

Page 24

This person is a bit of a mystery. The best clue is that he had the photo taken in Franklin, MA. He also appears a bit older than some of the men in the other photos.

Page 25

Page 25 is the same as page 6.

Page 26

No idea. This person bears no resemblance to some of the others. He appears to be wearing a military uniform.

Page 27

Here there is a clue. The photo was not taken in Boston, but Gorham, NH. All we have to do is search in Gorham, NH for a relative. A search for Gorham shows it to be just North of Mount Washington.

Page 28

I’m hoping that someone will come accross this Blog and tell me who some of these people are. This is the studio where the black woman had her photo taken.

Page 29

I am associating the curley hair with the Clarkes.

Page 30

I think this is a boy? The light hair could go with the guy in the military suit, but there was some light hair in the Frazer family also. I can see a cross on this little person. I also have a photo of George McMaster (brother of Violet) that looks a little similar to this person. I believe that Violet’s granddaughter sent this to me.

I suppose that it might even be possible to look at where each of these studios were to see if that made a difference compared to where some of these people may have lived.

[Edit: January 2020] I see in my McMaster File, I have this photo labeled: George, Herbert, Violet McMaster. I also have the following photo in my McMaster file:]

This photo is named George, Bert, Fanny, Violet. These were all children of William McMaster and Catherine Clarke.

That was the last of the larger photos. Following this are six pages with four smaller photos each in them.

Page 31A

Do I have relatives in Taylorville, Il?

Page 31B

This photo appears to be trimmed down. I can’t tell where the photo was taken.

Page 31C

This is the first tintype. These tintypes give an older look to the photos.

Page 31D

At first, I thought these two were my great grandfather James Archibald Frazer, but now I’m not so sure. I’ll say it is him with his hair part inversed by the tintype

Page 32A

This photo appeared to have been trimmed down from something else. Also a tintype.

Page 32B

Apparently these tintypes are a reverse image. Here is the flip side:

So apparently a Toronto relative. Could this be a Frazer relative?

Page 32C

Another trimmed-down tintype of 2 cute girls – assumed sisters.

Page 32D

Here is a non-tinype among the tintypes. A distinguished self-assured looking couple in Belfast. I’m not aware of any Belfast connection in my ancestry which makes me wonder who these two are.

Page 33

Here is what a typical tintype page looks like in the book:

 

Page 33A

I just need a program with facial recognition.

Page 33B

Page 33C

The guy bottom left looks like the same person that was on P 23. My guess is the best man at the wedding. I would need to find Parish records to find out that type of information.The other two appear to be Margaret Clarke and my great-grandfather, James Frazer.

Page 33D

This appears to be my great-grandmother on the left wearing a Wonder Woman belt. I had thought the woman on the right looked familiar, but now I’m not sure.

Page 34A

These look to me to be two sisters.

Page 34C

34B is missing.

Does she look like the woman on the left above?

Page 34D

Page 35A

Page 35B

Photos like this and the Belfast and Toronto photos raise quite a few questions. In a record I saw recently, my great-grandfather was a tea dealer. Could this photo have something to do with that? This was another non-tintype photo.

Page 35C

Looks to me like Margaret Clarke.

Page 35D

The same as 31C

Page 36A

Is this the same woman as 34A? Perhaps with her husband?

Page 36B

Somebody’s pride and joy.

Page 36C

Same as 33D

Page 36D

Summary and Conclusions

  • A major reason for me putting these photos out there is that I hope that some people will recognize who these are
  • These photos can spur research or direct research. For example, what are my Illinois, Belfast and Edinburgh connections?
  • Taking the photos out and looking at where they were taken was helpful
  • My guess is that most of the photos were from around the time when my great-grandmother Margaret Clarke was in the US. This would have been between about 1884 and 1902 when she died.
  • I have definitely increased the number of photos of people that I know and that I do not know.
  • The photos help to give a picture of the people that my great grandparents knew, even if I don’t know who they are.
  • A next step may be to sort the unknown people by those that look most like each other.
  • I also want to look into facial recognition software.