I’m pretty sure that I have written about this before. I will not write about how to extract YDNA from Autosomal DNA results but write about where to get it and what to do with it.
From what I understand YDNA general (meaning old) Haplogroups may be obtained from autosomal DNA. The main three sources of this are:
- 23andMe
- FTDNA
Gedmatch may have YDNA information but it is self reported by the person uploading their autosomal DNA results. FTDNA and some other company does direct YDNA testing, but I am focusing on YDNA results based on autosomal DNA testing.
This YDNA testing from autosomal testing results may not prove that you are closely related to another male or male line, but it will more often rule you out if you are not related.
My Own YDNA Results
I have taken the BigY test, so I know that I am in this Haplogroup with my brother Jim:
The Haplogroup is called R-FT225247. But looking above that there are many haplogroups whtat are available for other Hartley branches on our line. Here are the suggested dates for these Hartley Haplogroups:
The oldest branch is from a Quaker family of Hartleys who came to Pennsylvania around the year 1700. Their roots go back to the early part of the 1600’s.
Hartleys at 23andMe
23andMe does a basic YDNA Haplogroup. Here is mine:
R-L21 is pretty old and goes back to 2700 BC according to FTDNA:
My second cousin Woody tested at 23andMe also:
Woody gets a more recent Haplogroup called R-Z16855. My Haplogroup was rated at 1 in 7 (pretty common). Here is Woody’s Haplogroup’s frequency:
I don’t see Z16855 in my list from FTDNA. When I Google this Haplogroup, I find this from FTDNA:
I wonder what this means? Was 23andMe wrong in their analysis? I am not aware of Z16855 nor DC55. According to AI:
Outdated Tree Systems: 23andMe utilizes older reference trees (such as ISOGG 2016) for Y-DNA, which means your branch designation may lag years behind the latest genetic discoveries.
Other Relatives at 23andMe – Lentz
I do see 2 Lentz matches at 23andMe. My mother’s mother was a Lentz. My first Lentz match is R-Y4355. The second Lentz match is also Y4355. Here is part of my Lentz DNA Tree:
According to 23andMe, my 2 male Lentz matches are brothers and are half 1st cousins twice removed to Dorothy – I assume Dotty on the Chart above. As Dotty is the daughter of William, I assume that my other 2 matches must desend from Stanley Lentz:
If Dorothy is twice removed from my two Lentz matches, that must mean that they are great-grandsons of Stanley. And as I have only one male child of Stanley (also Stanley) the two matches must be grandsons of the Stanley born in 1921 (same birth yeare as my mother). Even further as this Stanley had one son, my two matches must be Stanley’s son’s sons.
I put this in my chart before I forgot my reasoning:
That makes Jereme and Will my 2nd cousins once removed. I already have Jereme and Will in DNA Painter on my profile:
Chromosome 4 is interesting as it probably shows the crossover between Lentz and Nicholson. Unfortunately I do not know which match is which.
Here is what FTDNA has for the Lentz Haplogroup:
However, given my Hartley comparison between 23andMe and FTDNA, I would be skeptical. According to 23andMe:
Haplogroup R-Y4355 is descended from haplogroup R-A1168. Among 23andMe research participants, haplogroup R-Y4355 is commonly found among populations in the United Kingdom and Ireland.
FTDNA shows matches in Germany and Sweden.
Frazer YDNA from Autosomal DNA
Here is a Frazer match at 23andMe:
I’ll skip to my cousin Paul I had tested at FTDNA using the BigY test:
Paul and Rick are at R-Y85652. Paul and Rick are third cousins once removed. My 23andMe Frazer relative and Paul are first cousins.
FTDNA has the L664 is quite old:
My Frazer ancestors were in Scandinavia before making there way to Scotland about 2,000 years ago. So Sweden makes sense for L664.
I know that other Frazers have tested at FTNDA, so let’s see if any more Haplogroups show up there. Michael is a known Frazer relative:
It looks like Michael’s male line is more Allen. So that won’t work. Two other Frazers come up on a more distant connection, but they have already taken the BigY test.
On my match list I see Ken. Ken is the brother of Rick who took the BigY test:
Ken would obviously have the same more detailed Haplogroup that his brother and cousin Paul have. But here he has S2894 through his autosomal DNA.
This is simlar to the Frazer Haplogroup at 23andMe:
This gets Ken back to Sweden or Scandinavia. At 1950 BCE, this is more recent than what 23andMe shows.
An Ellis Haplogroup?
This is for my late mother-in-law Joan. I don’t see any autosomal matches at FTDNA under the Ellis name. However, I can look for an Ellis YDNA Project at FTDNA. The FTDNA Ellis YDNA Group has 257 members:
This is a possibility. Maybe the same guy from my Ellis web page:
If this is the right group, it appears to be undertested:
Interesting. I think that the J Haplogroup is somewhat rare.
Any Upshall YDNA Out There?
Upshall is a name in my wife’s mother’s tree. They were from Harbour Buffet, Newfoundland. I am not sure that FTDNA has a YDNA project for this surname. At least I don’t see any easily nor for Newfoundland. That means I need to look at Autosomal DNA.
I do see one Upshall match to my late mother-in-law under Family Finder at FTDNA, but there is no information on YDNA:
Here is what I see from Google AI:
So, if one were to contact this match, he may have an estimate concerning his YDNA Haplogroup.
Summary and Conclusions
- YDNA estimates given by FTNDA and 23andMe give an interesting back door view of male Haplotypes. This resource is probably underutilized.
- These Haplogroups can be useful in certifying that a certain male is out of a surname group.
- They can also suggest if an autosomal tester is consistant with other males in a surname group.
- More people should be aware of this free benefit offered by FTNDA and 23andMe.