I have been eagerly awaiting a new Mawdsley BigY test. The results just came in on 26 January 2022. I had expected that the new test would break up the A11132 Block. Previously, only Hartleys had tested positive for A11132.
Here is the current A11132 Block as seen in my view:
Above the A11132 Block is A11138. A Smith has tested positive for that SNP. The dates for the A11132 Block are approximately 900-1500 AD. Because it was believed that the connection to Mawdsley was before the time of surnames, it seemed like this test would break up the A11132 Block. That has not happened yet as FTDNA is still analyzing the test.
Breaking Up the A11132 Block
If Mawdsley is positive for one or more of the SNPs in the A11132 Block AND negative for one or more of the SNPs in the A11132 Block, then the Block will be broken up. Let’s look at Mawdsley’s results:
- A11132 – Positive
- A11134 – Negative
- A11135 – Negative
- A11137 – Positive
- A11139 – Positive
- A11140 – Positive
- A16716 – Positive
- FT22040 – Positive
- FT226983 – Positive
Because Mawdsley is negative for two of the SNP (A11134 and A11135), then the old A11132 Block is broken up. I was expecting the Block to be broken near the top of the Block, but it appears to be broken near the bottom of the Block. There are other things that could happen, but the above is the simple explanation.
Hartleys Will No Longer Be A11132
Here is a simplified view of pre-Mawdsley BigY testing:
Here is a simplified view of what should happen soon:
Here I have started to add more SNP information. Mawdsley will take on the A11132 SNP designation which will now represent 8 SNPs as opposed to a previous 10 SNPs. Hartleys other than my branch will be given the name of either A11134 or A11135. The yellow box above represents three branches of BigY-tested Hartleys not including my branch.
Dating the Common Ancestor of Hartley and Mawdsley
I had previously estimated the common ancestor of the Hartley BigY testers at about 1550 AD. Jared Smith has estimated that in general, the SNPs in this region of the YDNA Tree could form at about once every 71 years. That would put the common ancestor of Mawdsley and Hartley at about 1408 or rounded to the year 1400.
The Adoption of Surnames
I have read different things about the adoption of surnames. Here is a quote from https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Surnames/
The introduction of parish registers in 1538 helped establish the idea of hereditary surnames. However it was still common in some parts of the country to find a person entered under one surname at baptism, married under another name and then buried under a third.
According to Wikipedia:
By 1400, most English and some Scottish people used surnames, but many Scottish and Welsh people did not adopt surnames until the 17th century, or later.
For a third opinion, I will quote FamilySearch:
Learning about the possible origin or origins of your surname is fascinating, but as surnames were established in England by 1450 and their parish registers only go back to 1538 at the earliest, most of us cannot establish our surname origin with certainty.
At any rate, at the possible time of the common ancestor between Mawdsley and Hartley surnames could have been when surnames were still in flux. It is interesting that the YDNA dating for the Mawdsley/Harltey common ancestor seems to point to that very time when surnames were likely used but perhaps not consistently.
Summary and Conclusions
- A New Mawdsley BigY tester has broken the existing A11132 Block
- BigY testing has nestled Mawdsley between Smith and Hartley on the YDNA Tree
- A11132 formerly held by only Hartley testers will now become a Mawdsely SNP
- The Mawdsley tester moves the Hartleys down the SNP tree about 8 SNPs.
- The new Hartley SNP is narrowed down from a block of 10 SNPs to a block of two. The new Hartley SNP name will be A11134 or A11135
- The common ancestor between Hartley and Mawdsley could be around the year 1400 AD
Nice update Joel as always!