Painting Two of My Irish Frazer Relatives Paul and Gladys

In the early days of my DNA research, I had a lot of DNA matches with my Frazer relatives, but not as many with my more distant McMaster relatives. Here is the Frazer side of my family from my paternal grandmother:

I’m doing better with the top right of the tree than with the bottom right. There is an extra Frazer and McMaster at my 3rd great grandparent level. At the 4th great grandparent level, there is an extra Frazer and three unknown surnames on the upper half of the tree.

My Cousin Paul

I had my cousin Paul tested. We share the ancestors of George William Frazer and Margaret McMaster.  Paul’s results are at FTDNA, MyHeritage and Gedmatch. I have also painted some of Paul’s matches at DNA Painter.  Here is what I have painted for Paul so far on his paternal side:

From here I could try to find some more matches for Paul. the places to look would be FTDNA, MyHeritage and Gedmatch. Paul is not listed at Ancestry, and AncestryDNA does not provide the information to paint chromosomes.

Paul at Gedmatch

I see that Paul matches Michael at Gedmatch. He is related on the Frazer side:

Paul is in the same generation as my father, so I will show him:

Paul and Michael are 4th cousins. Here it says half 4th cousin once removed, but that is actually for me. Also, it probably isn’t half fourth, we just don’t know who the wife of Richard Frazer was at the top of the tree. Here is how Michael matches Paul on Chromosome 1;

What this tells us is that the matches Paul has with Susan, Lori, Emily and Gladys are actually with Violet. This is because Richard is the father of Violet Frazer born 1803.

Paul and Jane

Here is how Paul and Jane match at Gedmatch:

Here is a better view of how Paul, Jane and Michael are fourth cousins to each other:

I figured out I can share files on my home computers, so that helps.

Jane doesn’t add any new DNA to Paul’s profile, but adds some insight. It appears that the light pink DNA that Susan shares with Paul is actually from Richard’s daughter Violet Frazer.

Paul and Richard from the Philip Frazer Line

Out at the level of Philip, the records get sketchy as does the genealogy. Here is how Richard and Philip line up:

Too bad I don’t know who the wife of Philip was. I have this record from the Kilmictranny Church:

Nov 22, 1818    Philip Frazer  of Ardcarne parish

Jane Johnston  of Kilmactranny

Witnesses:  Edw. Johnston,   Edw. Johnston

If my tree is right, this was probably the elder Philip’s second wife. Perhaps his first wife was a Johnston also? If the birth date of 1802 is right for the younger Philip, then he would likely be too young to be marrying in 1818.

Here is how Paul and Richard match at Gedmatch:

This is getting interesting, because if I have my tree right, then part of this DNA may be from Philip Frazer born around 1776 and part may be from his unknown wife. I say may be because the genealogy isn’t certain and even if it is, it is possible though not as likely that all the DNA may be from the husband or the wife.

Next, I’ll paint Richard’s DNA match on to Paul. Here is Chromosome 5:

This is interesting as I have no other overlapping Frazer matches here. That could mean that this represents Philip’s wife.

Here is Chromosome 7:

This appears to show the location of the split from where Paul went from inheriting DNA from James Frazer to where he went from inheriting Violet Frazer’s DNA if I am interpreting this correctly. That is because Richard represents Philip Frazer the father of James and Jane Represents Richard Frazer, the father of James’ wife Violet Frazer.

Here is Chromosome 17:

Here this tells me that the DNA that Emily, Richard and Paul share is from James and not Violet Frazer.

Paul and Barry

I have that Barry is Richard’s brother, so let’s look at him also. Barry matches Paul on Chromosomes 12 and 15. Here is the already complicated Chromosome 12:

John in Blue represents McMaster, so Barry would represent Frazer. This is probably the split between George Frazer and Margaret McMaster.

Here is Chromosome 15:

This just shows that Susan has some old Frazer DNA here from the James Frazer side (born about 1804).

Adding My Other Siblings to Paul’s Chromosome Map

Here is how Paul matches my sister Heidi:

Heidi doesn’t add much new Frazer DNA for Paul, but my sister Sharon adds some new DNA on Chromosome 9:

This is interesting as Sharon is filling in blanks on Chromosome 9. These changes could be where Paul has crossovers. Crossovers are where the DNA changes from coming from one ancestor to coming from another. For example, they may represent where Paul was getting DNA from George Frazer vs. his wife Margaret McMaster.

What Did I Learn from Painting Paul?

Part of what I am interested in doing is separating out the Frazer and McMaster DNA. This is somewhat difficult due to intermarriage and unknown spouses in the late 1700’s. I have re-organized Paul’s key:

This points out some problems. I don’t have wives for Philip and Richard Frazer. The green for George Frazer/ Margaret McMaster could be Frazer or McMaster. William McMaster who was the father of Fanny McMaster had a wife Margaret Frazer, so they could technically be on the Frazer side.

There are three other fairly close relatives who are at the same generational level as Paul. These are Gladys, Emily and Susan:

Gladys is good, because she has no known McMaster ancestry. That means that most of her matches should be on the Frazer side. Emily is a good match because she has tested at MyHeritage. I have Paul’s results at MyHeritage also. Susan tested at MyHeritage also. However, Susan has potential to have more McMaster DNA and matches because her mother is also a McMaster.

Painting Gladys

I like the idea of painting Gladys as we should be looking at Frazer matches and not McMaster matches. That means that where Gladys’ DNA matches overlap with McMaster heavy descendants of George Frazer and Margaret McMaster, those matches should be on the Frazer side.

First I go to the DNA painter profile page. I see that I haven’t already painted Gladys there. I have my mother Gladys painted, so I’ll have to distinguish this Gladys somehow. Here is Gladys starting with a clean slate:

Back to Paul Briefly

Before I start on Gladys’ DNA Painter, I see a few relatives I missed for Paul:

I painted Doreen, Gladys and Susan, but I missed Ken, Pat and Bill. When I searched for these three, I didn’t see them on Paul’s match list down to about 11 cM, so Paul either doesn’t match these three or they fell off the bottom of his list.

Back to Gladys

First, I need to decide whether to include Bill’s results. This will give Gladys’ paternal side, so I guess I will. This brought Gladys up to 20% painted, so that must mean 40% of Gladys’ paternal side:

Next, I’ll add in Pat to get to Gladys’ paternal grandparent level:

I’m walking the DNA up Gladys’ Frazer tree. Now we are up to 48% painted on Gladys’ paternal side. I then added the tree siblings Susan, Doreen, and Ken:

This brought Gladys up to 58% painted on her paternal Frazer side.

The Next Step: Up to James and Violet Frazer 1803

This is actually two steps up the ladder. Gladys’ matches with Emily represent the shared DNA they bother received from James and/or Violet Frazer:

Now the places where Emily’s matches overlap Gladys’ family’s’ DNA will represent Richard Patterson Frazer on Gladys’ side.Here is Chromosome 2:

Emily’s match is on the right in the greenish yellow color. There is no overlap there, so the blue could represent Richard’s Hassard wife.

Chromosomes 5 and 9 have overlap:

Also on Chromosome 18:

Gladys and Jane

The next match for Gladys that comes up at Gedmatch is with Jane:

Now my simple plan is out the window. Jane is a double fourth cousin to Gladys. I circled Bill’s mother as she is at Gladys’ level. However, if Jane is matching Gladys on her Hassard side, that shouldn’t make a difference for my side of the Frazer family.

Here is how Jane matches Gladys. There are a lot of matches, but none of them are too high. That makes sense as the connections are distant but in more than one way.

Here Jane is in a brighter color. I had to put an or in the key as the  connection could be in one of two ways. This may resolve somewhat after I add some more DNA matches.

Gladys and the Descendants of George Frazer and Margaret McMaster

Here are the next 10 in Gladys’ DNA match list at Gedmatch:

Of these, all but Martha and Richard are descendants of George Frazer and Margaret McMaster. However, my assumption is that these matches with Gladys will be on the Frazer side. I don’t need to map Heather as she is my daughter and Mel as she is Emily’s daughter.

So I better get mapping. I am surprised that Gladys matches Richard and Martha at the same apparent level as my family as the common ancestor Philip Frazer is one generation further away. I say apparent because sometimes the lists above are not accurate. They need to be checked by the one to one matches.

Gladys and My Sister Sharon

Sharon seems to answer some questions on Chromosome 12:

Before we were unsure about Jane’s matches. However, here the match is likely on the Richard Frazer side. That is because Sharon descends from Violet Frazer the daughter of Richard. This also tells us that Sharon’s DNA here is from her Violet Frazer side and not James Frazer. Further, it tells us that for Gladys, Ken, Susan and Bill, the DNA is from their Richard Patterson Frazer side and not their Amelia Hassard side.

James and Gladys

My brother James also straightens out Chromosome 1:

He does what Sharon did at the right side of the Chromosome where he overlaps with Bill and Jane. In James’ next to the last segment, it is not as specific. We just know that the common ancestor shared between Gladys, Bill, James and Doreen at that location is from either James or Violet Frazer from around 1803.

Paul and Gladys

Paul Shows Bill and Gladys that they are getting Frazer DNA on that segment on Chromosome 8 from James or Violet Frazer. Paul finds out that this DNA is likely Frazer DNA on his side from George Frazer and not from Margaret McMaster.

Gladys and My Sister Lori

On Chromosome 4, just Lori and Gladys match. However, that defines bother Gladys and Lori have Frazer DNA at that location.

Lori does the same thing on Chromosome 14, but this time it applies to Gladys’ nephew Bill also.

Gladys’ Matches on the Philip Frazer Line

Let’s Paint Martha and Richard:

I have Philip Frazer in a darker blue. The matches were between Chromosomes 3 and 20.

Chromosomes 3 and 4

This is interesting because Richard filled in for Gladys what appears to be some ancient Frazer DNA from Philip Frazer in the late 1700’s or his wife.

Richard does something similar on Chromosome 4:

Richard supplies information that his sister Martha did not and Martha supplies information that Richard does not.

Chromosome 18 and 20

I won’t do all the chromosomes:

This shows that Martha and Gladys matches don’t have any places where my family and Gladys matches overlap. That would result in triangulation. That doesn’t mean that Richard and Martha don’t match my family – just that they don’t match n the same areas.

Gladys’ Matches with Jean and Vivien

It looks like Jean is the daughter of Vivien, so I’ll skip Jean. Here is how Vivien matches Gladys, Bill and Paul on Chromosome 8:

This is interesting because Paul does not descend from the Stinson line where Vivien is. Vivien is in the purple group and Gladys in yellow:

That means that this match goes further back on the Frazer line:

The common ancestors are Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly. However, I don’t know if the DNA goes through James or Violet Frazer. Chances are it is Violet as Bill and Gladys are on the Richard Frazer Line. Confusing.

Summary and Conclusion

  • I started out thinking I would be looking for new matches for Paul. Instead, I decided to paint in the existing matches.
  • I then decided to paint in Gladys’ DNA. I picked her because she didn’t have any known McMaster DNA.
  • Painting in Gladys was fairly straightforward. However, it shed more light on her Frazer line than on mine.
  • Next, I will try to tackle Painting of Emily and Susan. Emily is at the same level as Paul. Susan is also at the same relative generational level but she has more McMaster DNA due to her McMaster mother. This next Blog will likely shed some more light on McMaster connections.


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