More on Emily and Melanie’s Frazer DNA

In my last Frazer DNA Blog, I wrote about Melanie and Emily’s DNA match at MyHeritage. I was really hoping that Melanie would upload their DNA to gedmatch for a proper comparison and she did. I hope that I wasn’t too annoying in my asking.

A Frazer Photo Identified

How often is it that you have a photo that is over 100 years old and someone is able to identify it? That is what Emily was able to do with this photo:

I had always assumed that these were all Frazers in front of their house in Ballindoon. Here is Emily’s comment:

 The photograph of the group outside Ballindoon is obviously my grandmothers wedding. I have never seen it before and love it. I never saw a photo of my grandfather James Fairbanks. He died when my mother Susan was three years old.

That’s great collaboration. Emily’s grandmother was Violet Frances Frazer in the white. Her husband is between my 2nd great grandmother Margaret McMaster Frazer and Violet. This is a good example of collaboration. Even though it is sad that James Faribanks died young, I am glad to know who he is in the photo. And Emily is very glad. I can only guess that this photo was mailed to my great-grandfather James Archibald Frazer who was Violet’s older brother in the US. Now, over 100 years later, the photo has gone back from the US to Ireland over the internet to be identified by Violet’s granddaughter.

Frazer Trees and DNA

In my last Blog on Emily and Melanie, I showed this tree of DNA-tested descendants of the older couple in the photo above. The addition of this branch is a big help in the Frazer DNA Project.

That group in turn are part of a James Frazer/Violet Frazer tree which is part of a Philip Frazer tree:

Philip is part of the Archibald Branch of the Frazer Tree. He is one of two brothers (the other being James) that we first have a record of in Aghrafinigan, North County Roscommon in 1749.

The above represents the Archibald line on the left in color and the James Line on the right uncolored. The Archibald side is a bit out of date and is difficult to portray as some DNA testers descend from more than one line due to Frazer cousin marriages. For example, the single blue line on the left above is meant to represent the Philip Line. This also has other branches. However, the yellow group in the Philip Line are also in two other Frazer Lines. This makes for interesting genealogy and more interesting DNA results.

Emily and Melanie’s DNA at Gedmatch

Emily, as Melanie’s mom, gave half of her DNA in general to Melanie. That means that Emily has about twice as much Frazer DNA compared to her daughter. For that reason, I will be looking at Emily’s results rather than Melanie’s.

Before, I start with the DNA, I need to mention that Emily and Melanie are part of the Richard Frazer Line also:

That is because Violet, the daughter of Richard Frazer at the top of the chart married James Frazer who I believe to be a son of Philip Frazer. That would mean that they would be first cousins. David on the left of the chart was added due to DNA matches. Jane was also. Assuming that David is placed correctly, he is important to this line being the only one that is not also known to be in another Frazer Line. In the Philip Line above, Richard is the one not in another line.

Emily and the All Archibald Line Comparison

I like to compare people to all others in a project and then see how the DNA sorts out. I’ll do that first with the Archibald Line of Frazers as there are too many in the whole project.

The Archibald Frazer Autosomal Matrix

I like this matrix, because it is fairly easy to interpret. The higher the number, the closer the relationship.

I have highlighted Emily in blue. Looking across from Emily, her highest match is with Paul. Paul and Emily are 2nd cousins. That means that they share the same great-grandparents: George Frazer and Margaret McMaster. Here are some autosomal statistics from the ISOGG Web Page:

An average amount of DNA that two 2nd cousins might share would be 233 cM. Paul and Emily share 289 cM which is well within reported ranges. My siblings and I match Emily as 2nd cousins once removed. All of our matches are below the average of 123. They range from a low of 47 to a high of 107. By the way, the autosomal matrix uses a smaller cutoff for DNA matches so these matches will be a bit higher than if you do a one to one match at Gedmatch.

Emily matches Gladys at 127 cM. This is quite high considering the two are third cousins. After that, Emily matches Doreen, 3rd cousin once removed at 73 cM. The average, above is 48. (When I run a ‘one to one’ match between the two, the result is a bit smaller at 68 cM.) Overall, Emily’s autosomal matrix results are not surprising. She matches Richard who I believe is a litmus test for the Philip Line. They would be 4th cousins once removed. Emily does not match David, believed to be a litmus test for the Richard Line.

In the Stinson Line, Emily matched her 5th cousin Cathy at 24 cM and her 5th cousin, once removed Ros from Australia at 17 cM.

Triangulating Emily’s DNA

Triangulating means finding three people that match each other on the same segment of DNA. When this happens there is almost always a common ancestor involved. I already have a list of Frazer Triangulation Groups or TGs. Emily will be in some that have already been found and may form a new TG or TGs.

The first TG that Emily is in, is in Chromosome 1. This is a popular TG:

Note that Michael and Jane are in this TG (TG01C). Michael and Jane do not descend from Philip, so this must be a Richard TG. This further means that the DNA that Heidi, Jon, Lori, Emily, Paul, Gladys, and Bill share came down to them through Violet Frazer and not her cousin James as Violet was Richard’s son.

That is one huge TG. Another possibility for this TG would be through the Frazer/Stinson Line. However, Heidi, Jon, Lori, Emily and Paul do not descend from that line, so that possibility is unlikely.

A New TG On Chromosome 2

I’m still modifying my TG Summary Chart:

This TG02B includes Emily, Paul and Gladys. They all descend from James and Violet Frazer.

Note that these three are third cousins to each other. This means that because Gladys is in this TG, the DNA that Emily and Paul Share in this TG is not McMaster DNA (from Margaret McMaster) but Frazer DNA. Also, the TGs that are just in yellow descend from James and Violet Frazer as shown. However, as there are no matches with those in the Richard line where Violet comes from, there is more of a chance that these would be James Frazer TGs.

New TG – Chromosome 6

This TG06A is squeezed in at the beginning of Chromosome 6 before the existing TG. These TGs can be difficult to interpret. Note that Doreen is in both TGs. If Jane is in a TG, that represents the Richard Line or Violet Frazer. If she is not in the TG it implies that the TG could represent the Philip Line or James Frazer.

TG Chromosome 8

Emily seems to be joining an existing TG.

This looks to be a sliding TG. That means, that it could be a longer TG, but not all the people in the TG are in all parts of it. Emily’s TG is actually a little further along on this Chromosome and only with Emily, Paul and Vivien. Either that or Gladys and Bill are still in it, but matching at lower cMs. I know, confusing.

Unless there is a connection on other than a Frazer Line, then this TG goes back to about 1743 when we believe Archibald was born. Gladys should be on this tree also in the yellow section, but I haven’t built it out all the way yet.

Chromosome 9 – An Old and a New TG

I had TG09B in green and changed it to yellow. I added a TG09C which has the same people except for Doreen and Bill. These yellow TGs seem to come from James or Violet Frazer based on the genealogy of the people in the TGs.

Chromosome 18

Emily joins an existing TG:

A lot of people seem to have made room on this Chromosome for James or Violet Frazer. Here is a map of Chromosome 18 with 4 of my 5 mapped siblings:

Heidi (H), Joel (J) and Sharon (S) are in the TG from 35-52. Those are the positions on the map above where Sharon, Heidi and I got Frazer DNA. My brother Jonathan (F) got Hartley DNA on his paternal side in that segment. That is why he isn’t in the TG. The same is true for Lori.

A similar positioning of DNA would explain why others from the group are in or not in this TG and other TGs.

The Mystery of My Chromosome 20 Further Revealed

In my previous Blog on Emily and Melanie, I noted that they helped reveal a mystery I have had with my Chromosome 20 ever since I have been looking at my DNA. Emily and Melanie matched on Chromosome 20 where I have hundreds of other unidentified matches. Emily and Melanie were the first good matches I was able to link to a related Frazer. Now, it appears I also have a TG there.

Here is the spreadsheet I use to find TGs:

In this TG, I see Emily in blue, then Jonathan, Lori, Heidi and Joel are me and my siblings. Then there is John. John recently contacted me and I wrote a Blog about him here. I had lost John in my TG spreadsheet when Excel crashed. Now he is back in.

Here is John over in the Frazer/Stinson Line.

Mystery solved. Apparently. These results are a bit controversial. Some believe in areas where you have too many matches, it is not possible to determine a common ancestor. Others believe that it is possible. I have found at least three out of the hundreds that have a common ancestor.

Here is some more mapping of my Chromosome 20:

The green segments show large areas available for Frazer matches.

Emily and the James Line DNA

I know the Blog is a bit long, but one last topic. How does Emily match the more distantly related James Line?

Emily matches CJ (Charlotte) and Jonathan from the James Line on Chromosome 5:

This is interesting, because it looks like a TG, but it isn’t. CJ would have to match Jonathan for this to be a TG and they don’t match each other. This could mean one of two things:

  • One or both of the matches is a false match or
  • Emily may match one person on her maternal side and one on her paternal side. It happens. This is a big reason why TGs are used.

Emily matches Beverly on Chromosome 19:

Summary and Conclusions

  • There was one thing that I did not find. I hoped to find some triangulation with Richard, my family, Emily and Paul. That would have indicated a common Philip line ancestor. The matches between Richard, Paul, my family and Emily seemed pretty well spread out which made triangulation not possible.
  • One of my favorite photos from Ballindoon has been identified making it much more meaningful.
  • Emily added a third DNA branch to the George Frazer/Margaret McMaster Line. This branch has been pretty lonely for the last 4-1/2 years.
  • Emily’s matches with others in the Archibald Line of the Frazer Project did add evidence to past work on the Frazer DNA Project. For example, her matches with the Philip and Richard Frazer branches confirm the people that are in those branches.
  • Emily’s triangulation with my family and John, who recently joined the Frazer DNA group,  verified a common ancestor on Chromosome 20. That is an area in my family where we have hundreds of matches.

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