Category: Clarke

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More Thoughts on Ron, Steve and McMaster/Clarke Genealogy and DNA

My last Blog on the McMaster/Clarke family was my 200th Blog on genetic genealogy. I was surprised that it was the first on Clarke DNA. The Blog focused on my McMaster and Clarke family and also on Ron and Steve. Ron and Steve both have McMaster and Clarke ancestors as do I. Neither the McMaster nor Clarke connection to me is cut and dry. However, there are big DNA matches between me, Ron and Steve. Usually, when I do these comparisons, I do them in Gedmatch.com as they make it easy to do comparisons and they have good DNA comparison tools. However, in this case, Ron tested at Ancestry and also has his results at MyHeritage. Steve tested at 23andme. He would be willing to post his results at gedmatch.com or MyHeritage, but those sites are not ready to take the new 23andme DNA results.

McMaster/McMasters/MacMaster: Scottish or Irish?

First, here is the tree which shows how I think that Steve, Ron and I are related on the McMaster side.

Ron and Steve both had traditions that their ancestors were Scottish and not Irish. I am quite sure that they were Scottish, but that between their time in Scotland and the US, they lived in Ireland for quite a while. This is based on the fact that I have traced the McMasters back to Kilmactranny Parish in County Sligo to the early 1700’s. Here are some other pieces of evidence that indicate that Steve and Ron’s McMaster ancestry is more directly from Ireland:

  1. Steve and Ron’s ancestor Edward’s Naturalization Papers state that he was from Count Sligo:

2. Edward’s marriage states that he and his wife were from Ireland:

3. Edward’s son Frederick William’s birth record shows that both his parents were from Ireland.

4. Edward’s son Stanley Edward’s 1881 birth record shows that both his parents were from Ireland. By the way he shared a birthday with me. At that time Stanley’s mom was listed as Sadie.

5. Edward’s daughter Alice Jane’s 1885 birth record shows that both his parents were from Ireland.

6. Edward’s son Thomas Leroy’s birth record shows that both his parents were from Ireland.

7.  Edward’s daughter Edna Clark’s birth record shows that both his parents were from Ireland.

8. The 1880 Census shows that Edward McMaster and his wife were born in Ireland as well as both of their parents.

The 1900 Census is the first one that mentions that Edward was born in Scotland and Celia in England.

9. The 1889 death record for Edward’s son Frederick W McMaster has both his parents born in Ireland.

This seems to show that most the records indicate that Edward and Celia were born in Ireland as were both their parents.

The Clarke Side

In my previous Blog, I favored this tree to match up my tree with Steve and Ron’s:

This has me as a third cousin with Ron. That is consistent with our DNA matches. However, I don’t have a good paper trail. Celia does list her mother as Jane on her wedding record. However, she gives her father as James rather than Thomas Clarke.

Interestingly, one tree at ancestry does have a Celia as the daughter of Thomas Clarke and Jane Spratt:

I recognize the owner of the tree as someone I have corresponded with in the past and who knows quite a bit about the Clarke family.  However, Margaret my great-grandmother is missing as well as Jane. Also the owner has no references for Celia.

However, I did check my records. I have the memoir of the daughter of William and Catherine pictured above. She does mention Celia here:

In another part of the memoir, she mentions the children but in a different order:

Unfortunately, she gives no further detail on Celia other that she knew them all. I take that to mean that Celia lived in the Boston area. I favor the first listing above of the children as it has Celia first who was apparently born around 1856. This gives me more confidence that it was this Celia that married Edward Mcmaster.

Back to the DNA

It is possible to triangulate DNA. This happens when three people match each other on the same segment. When that happens, there is almost always a shared ancestor. The problem is figuring out who that ancestor is.

I match both Stephen and Ron on Chromosome 4:

These are both from my match list. In order for this to be triangulation, Ron would also have to match Steve. I assume that this is the case, but cannot prove it. Assuming that this is triangulation, this may indicate a Clarke ancestor.  I say this due to the large match with Ron indicating a closer relationship and the fact that my McMaster relatives that aren’t related to the Clarkes do not match here.

Steven and Ron both match me on Chromosome 6, but the matches don’t overlap. So I can’t show triangulation there.

I match both Stephen and Ron on Chromosome 18:

Again, it is not a large overlap, but there is an overlap showing that we have a common ancestor out there somewhere.

Does the Triangulation Indicate a McMaster Or Clarke Ancestor?

That is what I would like to know. If my cousin Paul triangulated with Steve and Ron, it would indicate a McMaster ancestor as Paul has no Clarke ancestor. Unfortunately, Steve tested at 23andme and Paul did not.

How I Match Ron and Paul at MyHeritage

When I put Ron and Paul into my matching chromosome browser, it shows that I do not match Ron and Paul in the same place. That means that we do not triangulate. That also means that it is possible that I am matching Paul on the McMaster side and Ron on the Clarke side. Unfortunately, something cannot be proved by not matching, but it could give a clue.

I match Ron on red and Paul on yellow. As I mentioned, I have no overlapping segments with Ron and Paul. Of special interest is Chromosome 7. My match switches over from yellow. Here is an enlargement of that segment and what it may mean:

Again, these are my matches. I am matching Paul in yellow. This could be Frazer as Ron doesn’t have Frazer DNA from what I can tell. My Paul [Frazer?] match stops and my Ron [Clarke?] match starts. This is a possible Frazer/Clarke recombination point that my father had and he passed down to me. Another possibility would be a Frazer/McMaster recombination point, but that doesn’t make as much sense as that should have been passed down to both Paul and me(?)

Here is how Paul likelly matches on the McMaster Tree:

Does Paul Match Ron or Stephen by DNA?

It looks like they don’t match by DNA. At MyHeritage, Ron is one of my closest matches:

However, Ron doesn’t match Paul at all at MyHeritage. Note that Ron should be more closely related to Paul than to me on the McMaster tree.

This is how Stephen matches me and my siblings at Genesis. Steve uploaded his 23andme results to that Gedmatch subsidiary:

Steve doesn’t match Paul at Genesis either. What are the chances? Here they are:

As 4th cousins, Paul and Ron should match better than half the time. As 4th cousins once removed, Paul and Steve should match only better than, say, 30%

Notice in the image above that my sister Sharon does not match Steve. However, Sharon does match Ron at MyHeritage here:

Note that these are all chromosomes where she wasn’t matching Steve above. That is why Sharon and Steve didn’t match by DNA.

I note also that Steve and Paul do not match at Genesis.

The other piece of the puzzle I am missing is where Steve and Ron match each other.

What Does All This Mean?

It means that the DNA suggests that the match may be through a closer Clarke line rather than a more distant McMaster connection. From what I can tell, there were two or three sisters that married McMasters or McMaster relatives.

  • Ron and Steve’s ancestor, Edward McMaster, married Celia Clark in 1876. Celia was born about 1856. In 1880 Celia Clarke McMaster was living in the same building as Celia Clarke McGarry, a known relation of mine – possibly her Aunt.
  • William McMaster married Catherine McMaster in 1882. This William signed Edward McMaster’s naturalization papers as a witness. Catherine Clarke was born 1863
  • My great-grandfather James Archibald Frazer married Margaret Clarke in 1892. His mother was a McMaster. Margaret was the sister of Catherine Clarke. William McMaster was the uncle of James Archibald Frazer. Margaret was born 1866.

Here is a photo of my great-grandfather James Frazer with William McMaster’s wife Catherine Clarke. This was apparently after the death of James’ wife Margaret Clarke and Catherine’s husband William McMaster.

It would appear that Celia, Catherine and Margaret were sisters. If this is the case then I would be third cousin to Ron and third cousin once removed to Steve on the Clarke Line. The best way to identify by DNA whether the match is on the Clarke Line or McMaster line is to find someone with only Clarke or McMaster DNA. Ron, Steve, and I have both. Paul has McMaster DNA but not Clarke. If Paul had matched Ron and/or Steve by DNA, then that would indicate the match was on the McMaster Line. However, I know of no one that has only Clarke and not McMaster DNA due to all the double-related marriages mentioned above.

If Celia’s marriage record had her dad as Thomas and not James, I would be more convinced that she was a sister to the other two Clarkes mentioned above. If Celia’s marriage record gave her mother’s maiden name (Spratt), that would have convinced me also. Steve should be taking a trip to the Department of Public Health to check for Celia’s death record. Perhaps this will straighten things out.

Running is Good for DNA Analysis

I came up with this idea on my run today. My idea is to compare Emily to my family and Ron at MyHeritage. I recently found another relative that I matched there. Actually two: Melanie and her mom Emily. Emily, like Paul, has McMaster DNA, but no known Clarke DNA.

Now the McMaster DNA tree is getting wider which is good for DNA comparisons. I did quite a few comparisons until I found this one:

This is how my sister Lori matches Paul. in red, Ron in brown and Emily in yellow. The interesting match is here:

This segment where Lori matches Ron and Emily appears to form a Triangulation Group (TG). TGs are good as they show that those in the Group have a common ancestor. Lori matches Ron from about 41-51M on the Chromosome. Above, Lori matched Steve at the same spot:

My guess is that Steve and Ron match each other at this spot also. That would form a triangulation group with Emily, Lori, Steve and Ron. As Emily is not known to be related on the Clarke side, we have identified McMaster DNA on Chromosome 13:

This shows how the DNA would have come down from Abraham and Margery to their sons Robert and James in the early 1800’s. How do you like that? I just found out about Emily last week and already she is helping out on the McMaster Line. This also points to the importance of DNA testing. Lori was the 5th sibling I had tested for DNA. You might have thought that 4 siblings were enough, but they weren’t.

Where Does This Leave Celia?

I think that there is still room for Celia to fit in with the large DNA matches that we have between my family, Steve, and Ron.  We match each other at a minimum on Chromosomes 4, 6, 10. 11. 13, 14, 15, 16 and 18. Today we have figured out Chromosome 13.

Another DNA Trick: Commom Matches

There is a utility at Gedmatch and Genesis that looks at your common matches. It is a sort of where there’s smoke there’s fire type of approach. When I plug myself and John in i get some matches. Here is someone with the Clark name that probably triangulates with Steve and me:

I’ve sent out an email to see if there is any known relation.

Here is someone with the Crawford name on Chromosome 18 that likely triangulates:

However, this is a smaller match. The common ancestor may be quite far back in time. I associate the Crawford name with the part of Ireland my ancestors were from. I sent an email to the Crawford match just in case.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I’ve done quite a bit with the DNA considering the fact that Steve and Ron tested at different places.
  • A new match with cousin Emily came in handy in identifying one segment of McMaster DNA on Chromosome 13
  • The fact that I have 5 siblings in my family DNA tested was helpful
  • Lack of other matches with known McMaster ancestry point to a likely Clarke match but don’t prove it
  • I’ve shown that the McMasters were from Sligo Ireland rather than directly from Scotland.
  • Working on this Blog got me digging more into the Clarke genealogy and I did find I had a little more on Celia daughter of Thomas Clarke and Jane Spratt. This makes me much more confident that this Celia married Edward McMaster
  • Based on that, I feel as though most of the matches between my family and Rona and Steve are on the Clarke side. That is despite the fact that I have positively identified a McMaster segment that we share.
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McMaster and Clarke Genealogy and DNA

When I have a complicated problem, I like to write a Blog about it. This helps to see some of the issues. I haven’t written on my McMaster and Clarke side. The Clarke side has a brick wall in Ireland. The McMaster genealogy is better off, but I haven’t found much in the way of identified McMaster DNA matches. I’d like to see if I could pull any genealogy and DNA together for these two families.

Clarke Genealogy

Margaret Clarke was the wife of my great-grandfather James Archibald Frazer. She died in childbirth as did her mother Jane Spratt. Here is the little that I have on the line:

Margaret was from County Sligo as was James. They both emigrated to Boston and married. Margaret’s mother Jane, as I mentioned died in childbirth at the age of about 36, so little is known about her. Her husband Thomas’ father was John and his mother was believed to be Catherine Whitesides, but this is not certain. Thomas remarried after Jane died and had more children.

Here is a photo of Margaret:

Elizabeth and celia Clarke

Thomas had at least two siblings. They were Elizabeth and Celia Clarke:

Celia lived in Boston with her husband Charles McGarry (shown as McGeary in the 1880 Census):

As far as I know, Celia Clarke McGeary had no children. I added the family next to them because there we have a Edward McMaster. Turns out he was also married to a Celia Clarke and I match their descendant by DNA. On the next page of the Census, living with the McMaster family was a Charlotte Hovenden or Havenden:

She and her mother are shown as born in Ireland, but the father is shown as being born in Massachusetts.  Perhaps something was reversed there. When I search for Charlotte Hovenden, I was able to see she was born to Thomas and Mary in Boston on 13 September 1871.

The bottom line is that it looks suspicious that two Celia Clarkes were living next door to each other. I know I’m related to the elder Celia and quite sure that I am related to Edward McMaster. I can’t prove that I’m related to the younger Celia

back to elizabeth clarke

Elizabeth Clarke (sister of the older Celia) married Gilbert Archey and they lived in Ferguson, Pennsylvania. It would be interesting to see if I have any Archey DNA matches. I did have a distant match at Ancestry with someone who had an Archey ancestor from Achonry, County Sligo, but I was hoping that one of the Pennsylvania Archey descendants had tested. OK, moving on.

Catherine clarke, the sister of my great grandmother margaret clarke

My great-grandmother’s sister Catherine married William McMaster who is also related to me. I have to look it up as it gets complicated. William was the brother of my great great grandmother. It’s better if I draw it out:

From my great grandparent perspective, Margaret Clarke married James Frazer. Margaret’s sister Catherine married William McMaster who was also James’ Uncle on the McMaster side. Put another way, Margaret Clarkes’ Mother in Law was the sister of Margaret’s sister’s husband. I forgot that it is a bit more complicated as James McMaster Sr. married Fanny McMaster, daughter of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer.

It’s easier for me to picture this on a chart. Unfortunately the Archeys didn’t fit well on this chart, so they got dropped out.

An AncestryDNA McMaster Match

On a Facebook Page, Blaine Bettinger, who is a noted genetic genealogist,  posed this question,

“How much DNA (in cM) do you share with your closest match at AncestryDNA that you DON’T know how you’re related?”

My first foray into this question lead to the discovery of two 1/2 siblings on a different Line. The next closest match after that was an apparent McMaster match with Ron. Well, I don’t know if this met Blaine’s requirement as it appears we are related through the McMasters, but we aren’t sure exactly how. Here is how the match shows at AncestryDNA:

By the amount of DNA that Ron and I share, AncestryDNA thinks that we are third cousins. Ron pointed out that the 1930 Census for his grandfather indicated that his grandfather’s father was from Scotland and that the mother was from England. I pointed out many other records indicating that the parents were from Ireland. Due to another strange twist, Ron’s great-grandmother was named Celia Clarke. Remember the 1880 Census? Ron’s Celia Clarke was living next door to a Celia Clarke that was related to me. That was the Celia, daughter of Thomas Clarke who Married Charles McGarry. Could this just be a crazy coincidence? Probably not.

The Naturalization connection

Ron’s McMaster Great Grandfather was Edward F. McMaster b. 1851 in County Sligo. Edward’s Naturalization papers required two witnesses. One of those was William McMaster:

Here is my third great Uncle William’s signature on his own Naturalization papers:

I would say the two signatures look pretty exact.

Based on Edward’s marriage record to Celia Clarke, his parents were Robert and Mary McMaster. Based on my previous research, I had a Robert and Mary Mae McMaster. They were from the Kilmactranny area of the Southern part of County Sligo – near the Roscommon border.  Unfortunately there was a gap in the Kilmactranny Church records – which probably explains for the missing birth record for Edward. After coming out of the mad scientist’s laboratory, I come up with this:

According to this, Ron and I have the common ancestor of Abraham McMaster. In simple terms, that would make us fourth cousins, once removed. This is a bit more than what AncestryDNA predicted. However, I have two McMasters on my side: James and Fanny married each other. On Ron’s side there is a Clarke also. I have this Celia Clarke in lighter blue as we are not sure how or if she is connected to the other Clarkes. For symmetry’s sake, perhaps she was the grand-daughter of the father of John Clarke? I have four siblings tested. This is how they match Ron at AncestryDNA:

  • Heidi – 3rd Cousin 95 cM
  • Jonathan – 3rd Cousin 91 cM
  • Lori – 4th Cousin 52 cM
  • Sharon – 4th Cousin 35 cM

So it looks like I get the biggest match.

More On Clarke and McMaster DNA

Margaret Clarke is an important person DNA-wise. As my great grandmother, she is responsible for approximately 12% of my DNA more or less. However, as I have my DNA phased, she should represent 25% of my paternally phased matches. Put another way, I have my DNA mapped to my four grandparents. Of the DNA mapped to my Frazer grandmother, half of that should be Clarke DNA.

This is the map of my Chromosome 12 along with the map of my 3 sisters and one brother. The blue is Frazer. Specifically, the blue is my Frazer grandmother. However, she got half of her Frazer DNA from her dad and half from her mom who was Margaret Clarke. That means that about half of all the blue above should be Clarke DNA. Considering the large amount of Clarke DNA I should have, it is too bad that I haven’t identified any of it yet.

I have tested a 2nd cousin once removed Frazer. Here is how he matches me and my siblings on Chromosome 12:

Our common ancestors with Paul are George Frazer and Margaret McMaster. That means that these matches are belong to either one of those. I have looked at a lot of Frazer matches. It appears that the matches in the middle could be McMaster based on lack of Frazer matches and the small matches on the right would be Frazer matches. Those areas at least identify DNA that could not be from the Clarke side as my 2nd cousin Paul does not descend from the Clarkes.

McMaster DNA

My Mcmaster DNA goes back further. My 2nd great grandmother was Margaret McMaster. I have 16 second great grandparents. That means that 6.25% of my DNA would be from Margaret. That is 12.5% of my paternal matches. The Ancestry Ron match hasn’t uploaded to Gedmatch. If he did, that should identify about 140 cM of McMaster or possibly even Clarke DNA.

McMaster DNA Update 23andme

I recently contacted a match at 23andme who also has a McMaster ancestor.

Leroy Thomas MacMaster is one of Stephen’s maternal great grandfathers. Ron, the match I have at AncestryDNA, has Leroy as his grandfather. That would make Ron and Stephen 1st cousins once removed. The good news about Stephen is that he is on 23andme where I can tell what DNA we share.

Above, in table form, is the connection that Stephen and I have by DNA. I assume that the connection is on the McMaster/MacMaster side, but as we both have suspicious Clark ancestors, I would not rule out some Clark/Clarke DNA in there. The largest DNA match between Stephan and me is on Chromosome 18. Here is how I got my DNA from my four grandparents on Chromosome 18:

The numbers on the bottom correspond to the position numbers in the table above but in millions. So the blue bar to the right of my J is where I match Stephen from about 0 to 7. My Frazer grandmother had a Clarke mother and a McMaster paternal grandmother. Stephen would also match the blue in the beginning of Chromosome 18 for my Sister Heidi (H) and my brother Jonathan (F) above. Here is a newer map for my other sister, Lori. This shows that she would not match Stephen on Chromosome 18 as she got her DNA in the beginning of that Chromosome from her Hartley side:

Some Simplified McMaster/Clarke Trees

I started writing this Blog in October 2017 and have now come back to it in March 2018. I can see that my trees were a bit complicated. I am putting these trees out there not as a proven thing, but as a model to see if I can figure out where the DNA matches are coming from.

McMaster Tree

There, that looks a lot better. AncestryDNA has me as a third cousin to Ron and 23andme has me as a third to fourth cousin. By this chart, I would be a 4th cousin once removed to Ron and a 5th cousin to Stephen. The extra DNA could be coming from my other McMaster Line or from the Clarke side.

Clarke Tree

This tree will be more difficult to build as Clarke is one of my most challenging lines. Here is one possibility:

Another Clarke Tree

In this tree, I am a third cousin to Ron and third cousin once removed to Stephen. Perhaps this fits the DNA better?

Under this scenario, the above 17 year old Celia Clarke arrives in Boston on the Steamer Hecla from Ireland by way of Liverpool on 23 September 1873.

Celia marries Edward McMaster three years later in Boston in 1876. The 1880 Census shows that she is living at the same address as her Aunt Celia in Boston. The only problem with the story is that Celia’s father is recorded as James on the marriage record. The mother she did have as Jane which would fit. It would be interesting to find a death record for Celia to see what it said. This would take a trip up to Boston to check.

Another Update on the DNA

I just noticed that MyHeritage now appears to have Ron’s DNA. I have uploaded my DNA results there also, but have not used the site much yet. Ron was my largest match there until a Latvia match recently appeared.

All I need to do is upload my cousin Paul’s DNA to MyHeritage. Paul is related to me through the McMasters but not through the Clarkes. If Paul matches Ron at MyHeritage, that should mean it is likely a McMaster match. The places where Paul does not match Ron or Steve will still be ambiguous. It is better to match a known Clarke to confirm a Clarke match.

Here is my match with Ron at MyHeritage:

Those are pretty impressive matches. The huge match at Chromosome 4 is indicative of a fairly close relationship, such as one like I’ve proposed through the Clarke family. The smaller matches are indicative of more distant relationships such as are likely on the McMaster side.

Summary and Conclusions

I’ve gone through a lot of genealogy and DNA. What does it all mean?

  • The genealogy on the McMaster side points to a connection between my family and Ron and Steve’s. A McMaster that I’m familiar with from my previous research signed the naturalization papers for Steve and Ron’s ancestor Edward F McMaster
  • Edward F McMasters parents are believed to be Robert McMaster and Mary. That appears to link Edward to Kilmactranny Parish in Sourthern County Sligo, Ireland.
  • The Clarke genealogy also appears to link our two families together. There are two Celia Clarkes. I had documented the elder one on my side. The younger one who married Edward McMaster ended up living at the same address as the elder Celia Clarke.
  • I proposed two trees for the younger Celia Clarke. The one I preferred had her as the niece of the elder Celia Clarke. This tree also put me at a closer relationship to Ron and Steve. This closer relationship seems supported by the large DNA matches I have with Ron and Steve.
  • My DNA results triangulate with Ron and Steve. I didn’t get into that because although triangulation shows common ancestors, there appear to be two different choices for common ancestors: Clarke and McMaster.
  • Ron uploaded his results to MyHeritage. That was helpful in showing the shared matches he has with me and Steve on the same segments of the same chromosomes. I uploaded my cousin Paul’s DNA results to MyHeritage. That will show which of the matches are McMaster matches as Paul also has McMaster ancestry. However, it will not positively show which matches are Clarke matches as Paul is not related on the Clarke side.
  • It takes a little while
  • This Blog is my 200th. It is interesting that I am still breaking new ground on my 200th Blog.