The DNA of Effie Jean (Jane) McMaster Born Ontario 1861

In my previous Blog on Effie, I looked at some possible parentage. In this Blog, I’ll get into some genetic genealogy, looking at the DNA of Effie’s great-granddaughter, Jean. Jean recently uploaded her Ancestry results to Gedmatch for comparison.

Effie’s Possible Ancestry

Based on reasons I presented in my previous Blog, it seems like Effie’s grandparents should be William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Here is a pre-Effie tree that combines DNA-tested descendants of William and Margaret McMaster with an ancestry chart:

I had guessed that Effie was the daughter of Isabel McMaster who should fit in on the second row above. I note that Jean told me that she matches Keith by DNA. So that is further evidence that Jean and Effie may belong on this chart.

Here I entered Jean’s line in a different color as we are still figuring this out.

Jean and Keith

It turns out that Jean is Keith’s fourth highest DNA match and my brother Jim is Keith’s fifth highest DNA match at Gedmatch. Here is how Jean and Keith match:

The DNA doesn’t tell who the common ancestor is, but suggests that Jean and Keith have a common ancestor. On the chart above, Keith and Jean’s common ancestors are 5 generations away. Gedmatch is guessing that the common ancestor could be as close as 4 generations away. By the chart above, if I am right, Keith and Jean would be 4th cousins.

By comparison, here is where Keith and my brother Jim match:

If Jim, Keith and Jean all matched on overlapping areas, then we could say that the three triangulate and share the same common ancestors. However, the fact that they don’t all match on the same segments doesn’t mean that they don’t share common ancestors. Sounds confusing, I know.

Jean and Emily

The next person I recognize on Jean’s DNA match list is Emily. Here is how they match:

Jean and Paul

Jean has a smaller match with my cousin Paul:


None of my family has DNA matches with Jean but that is not unusual for a 4th cousin once removed. However, one could say that we are related in the sense that Paul and Emily are related to Jean as my siblings and I are 2nd cousins once removed to Paul and Emily.

BV – Descendant of Mary Ann McMaster

BV had uploaded her results to Gedmatch, but now I don’t see them. It could be that there was a problem with the results or a private button was turned on. I wrote a Blog about BV’s DNA here. It’s too bad that those are missing as I would have liked to have seen how Jean matched BV. Right now the only DNA uploaded to Gedmatch is from Jean and descendants of Fanny McMaster. [However, see below in the Blog.]

Jean and the X Chromosome

Jean probably would be a good X Chromosome match with others, but her X Chromosome DNA did not get uploaded to Gedmatch. The reason that she would be a good match is that the X Chromosome is never inherited by a son from the father. So for example,

The places that I have red boxes, show where there cannot be an X Chromosome passed down. This means that BV can match Jean, my sisters,  or Emily by the X Chromosome. In order to show this, we would need to get BV’s DNA back up on Gedmatch and get Jean’s X Chromosome results to Gedmatch.

Jean’s Matches with Frazers

I have a Frazer DNA project, so I’ll check some of these people to see if Jean mathes any of them. Here Jean matches Cathy:

Here is Cathy’s tree as it relates to the Frazer family:

Jean and Cathy’s common ancestors could be Frazer, Stinson, Parker, Moore, or someone not even on this chart. Cathy is on the Archibald Line of the Frazer family. The best guess for Jean’s ancestor Margaret Frazer is that Margaret is on the James Line of the Frazer family.

Jean and Jamie

I found a small match here:

Jean and the James Line of the Frazers

Here Jean matches Toni:

Here is where Toni is on the DNA/genealogy chart for the James Frazer Line:

This means that if I Margaret Frazer placed right and Toni placed right, they would be on opposite sides of the James Line Chart. That means that Toni and Jean would be about 6th cousins, or something may be wrong in the chart. The other possibility is that they match on a  different line.

Rodney and Jean’s DNA Match

Here is Rodney on the Chart:

All the same caveats are in effect for this match that were in effect for Jean’s match with Toni above.

Frank and Jean

I’m looking for trends here. So far the trend is that Jean is matching more Frazers on the James Line side as compared to the Archibald LIne.

Here Frank shows as a closer relative to descendants of Margaret Frazer based on where I have her placed in the tree.

Keith and Jean

I already mentioned Keith above.

However, above, I was thinking about the McMaster side. The assumption is that Keith and Jean match on the McMaster and Frazer sides, so we wouldn’t know which side the matches above are on.

Barbara and Jean

It’s a good thing that I went through my list twice, as I missed Barbara the first time:

Finding BV

It turns out that the Barbara above is actually the BV I was looking for. If I search for BV at Gedmatch by her kit#, Gedmatch tells me that there is no such kit. But if I put in her kit number into Gedmatch for comparison, I can find matches. This is the missing information that I was looking for.

Based on the proposed tree, BV and Jean are third cousins, once removed.  Based on Gedmatch’s best guess, BV and Jean have a common ancestor 4.4 generations away. William McMaster and Margaret McMaster are 4 generations from BV and 5 generations from Jean. That averages out to 4.5 generations. Seeing as a common ancestor would never be 4.4 generations away, that is pretty close.

Triangulation, Crossovers and Chromosome 8

If BV, Jean and Emily each matched each other on Chromosome 8, that would be a strong indication that they each received that DNA from the same ancestor. However, look at what happened. BV and Jean match each other on Chromosome 8 between positions 57M and 71.  Emily and Jean match each other between positions 71 and 104M:

This could indicate a crossover. A crossover is where the DNA we inherited from one ancestor cross over to the DNA we inherited from the spouse of that ancestor. In this case, the crossover could be between William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Our crossovers are inherited from our grandparents. So, if this is a crossover between William McMaster and Margaret Frazer it would be a crossover that came down to BV or Jean either through Elizabeth Shannon or Effie McMaster.

Here is Elizabeth:

Here is Effie:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Jean uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch for comparison. That comparison shows that she matches BV, Emily and Paul. These four descend from William McMaster and Margaret Frazer.
  • By a proposed chart, Jean would be third cousin once removed to BV. She would be fourth cousin to Keith, Emily and Paul. She would be 4th cousin once removed to me and my five siblings. Jean and my direct family do not show shared DNA, but that is not uncommon for that level of relationship. However, our family has matches to BV, Keith, Emily and Paul and the genealogical connection is more secure.
  • Jean’s X Chromosome results did not get uploaded to Gedmatch. A comparison of those results should give further evidence that Jean shares the common ancestors of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer with BV, Keith, Emily, and my direct family.
  • I was not able to triangulate Jean’s DNA matches. Triangulation would indicate a specific common ancestor. However, the fact that Jean’s matches didn’t triangulate does not mean that the proposed genealogy is wrong. I also looked at a possible crossover between DNA inherited from William McMaster and DNA inherited from Margaret Frazer.
  • In general, the DNA results support the assumption that Jean descends from William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. In order for that to be the case, Effie McMaster would have to have been the child of one of William and Margaret’s children. I had proposed Isabel as that child. However, I have no direct proof that Isabel is the child of William and Margaret and no proof that Effie is the daughter of Isabel. Having said that, there is a likelihood that Isabel could be the daughter of William and Margaret and that Effie could be Isabel’s daughter.
  • So what I am saying is that the DNA gives more evidence that William and Margaret are the grandparents of Effie, but do not supply additional evidence that Isabel is the mother of Effie. The evidence that Isabel may be the mother of Effie has to do with the fact that Isabel was in the right place at the right time and had the last name of McMaster.


Penny’s Frazer ThruLines

My last Blog on Penny is here. That was prior to ThruLines. I also wrote a Blog on Penny’s sister Toni here. Toni’s DNA is not linked to her tree, so she does not have ThruLines.

Penny’s Genealogy

Penny is in red in the lower left. She descends for William Fitzgerald Frazer. This tree is based on research by Frazer researcher, Joanna.

William Fitzgerald Frazer Born 1821 Ireland

I am interested in William Fitzgerald Frazer:

Penny mentions a biography in her Ancestry Tree:

This was from An illustrated history of Sacramento County, California. Containing a history of Sacramento County from the earliest period of its occupancy to the present time published in 1890. Penny further gives this chronology for William:

This raises questions as to the mother of the first three children. Penny also mentions another daughter Angelina G Frazer as mentioned in William’s will. She is named as Angeline G Law. That gives a hint:

In 1911, Angelina is listed as Gracella. I assume that was her middle name:

This puts William Fitzgerald in Leitrim in the 1840’s. Here is another interesting record:

In this record Angelina “Gracenda” is listed as Augustine. Here is Angelina’s wedding publication from 1872 – not long after her father’s divorce:

This more specifically puts William in Drumkeerin:

That means that William Fitzgerald Frazer lived in Drumkeeran. He had Angelina Gracenda around 1843. His second daughter appears to have been Mary Ann Frazer. Penny has her born in 1844.

Mary Ann Frazer

Mary Ann married in 1864:

About a year later, these two were living in Poughkeepsie, New York:

Thomas Quinton may be William’s father. Margaret Frazier is Mary A’s sister. Poughkeepsie is on the Hudson River:

How Can the DNA Help Us?

Right now on the James side of the Frazer Tree, descendants have been placed into two main branches:

There is an Archibald Branch on the left where Penny is. There is a Michael Branch on the right. There is an Elizabeth branch in the middle also. However, her daughter Catherine Knott married Archibald believed to be the son of Michael on the right side. We can use the DNA matches to test the genealogies above. First, I try to see if the DNA supports that the people within the box on the left match each other. Then I see if they match the people in the box on the right at the appropriate levels.

Penny’s ThruLines

Penny’s first cousin level ThruLines are good:

89% of the time Penelope’s match with Pamela should be a 1st cousin once removed or similar relationship:

Penny’s ThruLines with William Fitzgerald Frazer

At Penny’s Frazer great grandparent level there are no new ThruLines. There are some at the 2nd great-grandparent level:

These matches are from the descendants of Mary Ann Frazer. I’ll start a chart for Penn y:

Penny and Frazer Third Great-grandfather ThruLines

This part goes beyond Penny’s Ancestry Tree to work that Frazer reasearcher Joanna has done:

Here there are 7 matches to Penny on the Thomas Henry Frazer Line. Joanna has that Thomas Henry Frazer was born in Drumkeerin, so there is that connection. Joanna is on the Edward F Frazer Branch. I should point out that Penny has no matches on the Edward Wynn Branch:

Edward Wynn is the brother in the middle group above.

Penny’s Distant ThruLines

When I put the common ancestor up two more generations to James Frazer born about 1720, I pick up two additional matches for Penny:

These two matches were recently added under Michael to explain DNA matches. It would make sense that Penny could match these two, as the theory is that Mary married William Frazer:

Adding Penny’s ThruLines to Madeline’s and Charlotte’s

Although Penny doesn’t share any ThruLine matches with Madeline and Charlotte, they both match some of the same matches as shown in blue below:

I think that Charlotte’s match to JS above is really Janet. The question is: if Penny, Charlotte and Madeline have many of the same ThruLines, then why doesn’t Penny match Charlotte and Madeline? I suppose there could be many explanations:

  • The common ancestor is Archibald born 1792. Charlotte and Madeline may be related on the Archibald side and Penny may be related on Archibald’s wife’s side. That would result in Penny not matching Charlotte and Madeline.
  • Another variation of that is that Archibald may have had more than one wife. Penny may descend from one wife and Charlotte and Madeline from another.
  • It may be that we have the genealogy wrong.
  • There may be other connections on collateral lines.

Adding In Joanna

If I add in Joanna to the mix, I’ll have representatives from the three brothers:


These are William Fitzgerald, Edward Wynn Frazer and Thomas Henry Frazer (Joanna’s great-grandfather). Here is a partial list of Joanna’s ThruLines:

I’m more interested in the matches at the third cousin level. Here we have the two brothers plus Ann. The third brother doesn’t show here as he shows at the 2nd cousin level for Joanna. For some reason, the ThruLines seemed to skip a generationbetween William Fitzgerald 1821 and Minnie Jane born 1895. I have written quite a bit about the McPartland Branch. They have the Ancestor Ann Frazer who has been difficult to place. Joanna has made a guess that she was the daughter of her 2nd great-grandfather Archibald born 1792. I have been going back and forth as to whether Ann should be under Archibald or Michael Frazer.

Another interesting point is that Edward Archibald born 1867 ended up in Poughkeepsie, NY where Mary A Frazer Quinton and Margaret Jane Frazer lived in 1855. I don’t know if this is a coincidence or not.

I see that Joanna matches WG. WG is on the Edward Wynn Branch where Madeline and Charlotte are. Joanna has a good match with WG but Madeline and Charlotte do not. This may be a coincidence, but I would keep my eye on this situation. For Charlotte and Madeline the level that they match WG indicates a second cousin once removed only <1% of the time:

I added WG into the tree here:

Joanna and James of Clerragh

I didn’t see any additional ThruLines for Joanna at her Archibald/Peyton level. However, there are some new ones at the level of James of Clerragh:

The odd thing with this ThruLine is that Archibald born 1690 who is usally the father of James of Clerragh is shown as James’ son. However, the relationship shown is correct at 2nd cousin once removed.

When I add the results in with the others, I get this:

Those are a lot of numbers to look at. Basically:

  • Penny had no ThruLine matches at her 2nd cousin level.
  • Joanna shows good match levels at the 2nd cousin level. That is, except with Chris
  • Madeline and Charlotte show poor 2nd cousin match levels. However, the matches are just with one person. Perhaps there are not many descendants on this line who have had their DNA tested.
  • At the third cousin level out of all the matches, there are no perfect scores. I am not sure why that is. If I add up all the percentages for the relationships and divide by the top percentages in the third cousin range, I get 42%. As these ThruLines are somewhat new, I don’t know how usual or unusual that is. The results seem anemic to me. It is as if Archibald Frazer had each of his sons by different wives.

Here are the rest of the results:

At the fourth cousin level, Penny has matches with the Thomas Henry Branch, but not the Edward Wynn Branch.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Looking back at my Blog on Penny’s sister Toni, it appears that Toni had better Frazer matches. However, Toni has not linked her DNA to her Ancestry Tree and therefor does not show up on ThruLines.
  • If Toni links her DNA to her Ancestry Tree, we should get a fuller picture of the situation.
  • I had fun getting a better understanding of Penny and Toni’s genealogy.
  • Perhaps as a result of Penny’s less than average matches on the Frazer side, the DNA matches looked a bit anemic.
  • However, having said that, at the third cousin level there are a lot of matches under Archibald Frazer born in 1792. However, they appear to be all less than perfect matches, with only one match that I see that is above average. That is the match between Charlotte and Gail at 97 cM.

My Scottish DNA and Matchbox Results

Someone signed me up for the Scottish DNA Facebook Page. Probably because I administer a Frazer DNA Project. The Scottish DNA Facebook Page has a Matchbox utility which I had never used until now. The administrators checked the people who hadn’t used it and put out a request for Scottish DNA members to run matchbox. Their interest got me to act.

My Scottish Matchbox Matches

My grandmother was a Frazer. That is Scottish, but her ancestors since the 1700’s at least lived in Ireland. That means that I am potentially up to 25% Scottish. However, I would think it possible that I could match other members of the Scottish DNA Facebook Page on non-Scottish Lines. I ended up with 21 matches.


I had run Matchbox at the Newfoundland Gedmatch Facebook Page before, so I was a little familiar with it. Still, it took a little while to figure out how to use it. The Facebook Name on the right is to identify Scottish DNA members so they can be tagged. Then they will know that someone matches them or a DNA kit they administer.

Jane at Scottish DNA Matchbox

I match with Jane at the above Matchbox match list about halfway down the list. I have looked at Jane’s DNA quite a bit as she is part of the Frazer DNA Project that I administer. In fact, due to intermarriage, we match on two different Frazer Lines:

I’m not in the next Frazer Branch shown:

Jane is in this Archibald Frazer/Stinson Branch. The place where we match is one level up. Our common ancestor is another Archibald Frazer.

Here is my DNA match with Jane:

I have mapped out my DNA. Here is my Chromosome 12:

I am the third sibling down (Joel). My match with Jane is to the right side of the Chromosome where I am clearly Frazer on my paternal side.

I also triangulate with Jane and other people from the Richard Frazer Branch on Chromosome 12:

Green in the box indicates a triangulating DNA match. This indicates that our common ancestor is Richard Frazer and his unknown wife. As expected, the DNA match is not with the more distant (to me) Archibald Frazer/Stinson Branch.

Top Matchbox Match Sharon

Sharon is at the top of my list above. When I run the one to one for Sharon, the match is not as close as it looks on the overall list:

Sharon and I have two smaller matches on Chromosomes 9 and 10.

At the start of my Chromosome 9, I have mapped myself as (orange) Hartley:

That means a non-Scottish match as my Hartley ancestors were from Lancashire, England.

However, at the right end of my Chromosome 10, I have Frazer DNA:

Hartley Matches: Babe, Neil, Cindy and Teckie

To make sure, I run my match against my paternal side phased kit at Gedmatch and get this match with Babe:

Unfortunately, on this part of my Chromosome 10, I have Hartley DNA also:

Neil on my match list also shows as under my Hartley DNA, but on Chromosome 1. Cindy maps to my Hartley side on Chromosome 15. Teckie is a Hartley match on Chromosome 16.

Matchbox Amy, Donna, Greene, WTD, Joan and John: Neither Here Nor There

I show a match with Any, but when I look for her on my phased paternal and maternal DNA match lists at Gedmatch, I can’t find her. That must mean that her match got phased out. So far, other than Jane, nothing is panning out.

I get the same thing for Donna further down the list. Here is what her non-phased match looked like:

I got similar results for Greene, WTD, Joan and John.

Gary and Elizabeth: Non-Scottish Match

These two appear to be related. Here is my match with Gary:

Here is a broken match. I have Chromosome 9 mapped as Hartley for myself, so I’ll rule this out also as a Scottish match. Elizabeth is about the same match, but only the second part of the match above.

Elizabeth #2: Genuine Scottish

The second Elizabeth on my list has DNA in the area of the Jane I mentioned above who shares Frazer ancestry with me:

I take that as a good sign. If Jane and Elizabeth match each other, that means that we have triangulation. Here is how Jane and Elizabeth match each other:

My guess is that Elizabeth’s ancestry goes back to the Frazers in Roscommon, Ireland.

Sallee, MPS, Jane and Shannon Match on Chromosome 20

Sallee, MPS, Jane and Shannon match on an area of Chromosome 20 that is mapped to my Frazer side. Unfortunately, I have what I consider to be an overmatch area on Chromosome 20 with hundreds of matches. Here is my match with Sallee:

These matches may be significant, but due to the number of matches I have, it would take a lot of work to analyze these matches. Plus the number of matches that I have make me skeptical as to the quality of the matches.

The Jane I mention above is the 2nd Jane on my list.

Jean: Genuine Scottish DNA

Here is my match with Jean:

I have all Frazer (blue) DNA on my Chromosome 22:

My Match with Bear on Chromosome 6

I have all Frazer DNA on Chromosome 6. Here is the match:

This match is in an area I have mapped to my Clarke and Spratt ancestors who lived in County Sligo:

Let’s see if Bear matches Stephen:

As expected, they match and triangulate.

Here is how Stephen matches me:



All the Matchbox matches were either on my paternal side or false DNA matches.

  • Paternal – 71%
  • Unphased (false matches) 29%

Of the paternal matches more came out on my Frazer Scottish side than my Hartley non-Scottish side: 9 Frazer and 7 Hartley. My match with Sharon was on both sides.

Two of the matches triangulated with known matches that have known genealogical connections to me. These were with Elizabeth and Bear and would be worth following up on.

Two of the Frazer side DNA matches were in chromosome areas where I had no identified Frazer matches.

Four matches were from Chromosome 20 where I have hundreds of matches that I cannot identify.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Use your phased results if they are available. When I did this, I found that 29% of my matches fell out as false matches.
  • If you have mapped your DNA, use that information. That will further eliminate matches that you are not looking for.
  • 9 out of 21 or 43% of my Matchbox matches were along my Frazer (Scottish) grandparent side
  • If you have existing identified matches with Scottish background, check to see if there is triangulation with those matches to determine common ancestors.
  • These results are based on my own genealogy where only one of my grandparents has Scottish background.





Following Up On a Frazer ThruLines Shared Match

In my previous Blog, I was looking at a ThruLines match I have named Susan. When I looked at Susan’s ThruLines, it seemed to confirm that we share the common ancestors of Michael Frazer born about 1764 in County Roscommon Ireland and Margaret Stewart. Susan and I had one Shared DNA Match named Patrice

Building a Tree for Patrice

Patrice’s DNA and tree was managed by someone else. The other person had a larger tree, but only a smaller tree for Patrice. I built out Patrice’s tree out to her 2nd great-grandparents like this:

This was a pretty quick and dirty tree and I used mostly Ancestry hints to get out this far. I was worried I wouldn’t find a connection. Then Mary Fraser showed up:

My guess is that Mary is the one to follow. She has 16 Ancestry hints. In this Civil War Pension record, she is Mary M McKay:

Every initial is potentially important in following Mary’s trail.

Here is the 1860 Census:

This helps us trace the McKay family geographically. This means that the family should have been in Canada between 1846 and 1853.

Bell above is Isabella. She seems to have been born in Warwick, Canada:

That opens the door to Canada:

Above is my best guess for Warwick.

Here is another interesting record from Warwick:

Apparently a John Stewart Fraser McKay was also born to Hugh and Mary M McKay in the town of Ancaster in 1850. From what I can tell, this is Ancaster:

That gives us a short chronology for the Hugh McKay family. The family is living in Ancaster outside of Hamilton in September 1850 when John Stewart Frazer is born. The Ontario 1851 Census doesn’t happen until January 1852. We don’t know where the family was living at that time. Isabella McKay is born June 1853 in Warwick, Ontario. The family is still in Warwick when both children are baptized in April 1854 at a Wesleyan Methodist Church by the Reverend George Case.

The naming of John Stewart Fraser McKay seems to be a clue as to Mary’s background:

Trying to Place Mary Fraser in the Frazer Family

Mary states that she was born in New York, but I wonder. I think that she was born in County Roscommon, Ireland. Here is one guess for her birth:

Here is an online view of Mary:

Although the date seems to fit for Mary, I was expecting her to be from the James Line of Frazers due to the shared DNA match between Patrice and myself. I have that the Mary from Roscommon would be from the Archibald Line under John Frazer. This is what I have so far for DNA matches on that line:

My guess is that Mary could fit in between John Frazer and William Frazer above.

How Could Mary Be On the Archibald Frazer Line?

Patrice, Susan and I have shared DNA matches. That does not mean that we share the same ancestors. For that to happen, I would need to show triangulation which is not possible with Ancestry results. I have two Archibald Frazer Line ancestors and one James Line Ancestor. My match to Susan is on the James Line. It looks like my match to Patrice is on the Archibald Line. Patrice may match Susan distantly on the Frazer side or more closely on a non-Frazer line.

Review of the John Frazer Branch

In my pink DNA/genealogy chart above, I have brothers John and William Frazer. I have that John was probably in Canada in 1849 and in Niagara County, New York in 1851. That was my explanation why I couldn’t find him in the Canadian 1851 Census nor in the US Census of 1850. Perhaps Mary took a similar route. John spent most of his time in Lockport, New York.

William Frazer Born 1828

When William married in 1863, he was living in Tecumseth Township, Ontario. In 1871 William and family were in Gwillimbury West, Ontario. Here is a map:

Mary was living in Ancaster in 1850. John was in Canada in 1849 but moved probably to Lockport by 1851 and was in Lockport, NY in 1855. William was in Tecumseth in 1863 when he married Mary Jane Wilson.

An Additional ThruLine to Add to the Evidence (Or Confusion)

Ancestry has provided me with this additional ThruLine:

Here ThruLines did something that I would consider doing. It found a match between me and Bob and matched our two trees together based on an available Anne I had in my tree on the John Frazer Branch. I was having trouble placing this McPartland Branch. My most recent guess had them on the James Line:

Ann Frazer and the McPartland Branch: Archibald Line or James Frazer Line?

I can see some arguments for having the McPartlands under the Archibald Line and John Frazer Branch:

  • I have a baptismal record for 6 Jan 1823    bpt.      Anne dau. of Archibald and Jane (WHITE)
  • The McPartlands settled around the Buffalo area. This is not far from Lockport where John Frazer from the John branch lived.

Adding Bob to the McPartland DNA/Genealogy Tree

I see that I am missing Bob from the McPartland tree above. So I need to add him in:

Summary and Conclusions

This Blog was more of an exploratory Blog rather than one that came up with conclusions. I was looking into a Shared match between someone on a Michael Frazer ThruLine and myself. That shared match was Patrice. I looked into her tree and found a Fraser named Mary. I expected that this Mary would fit into my Michael Frazer ancestry. However, she seemed to fit in better with a John Frazer Branch. I am also related distantly on the John Frazer side. To complicate matters more, Mary consistently claimed that she was born in New York State rather than Ireland. In addition, I have found no record stating who Mary’s parents were. Mary lived in the same area of Ontario that both the Michael and John Branches of Frazers migrate to.

Finally, when checking around for other possible shared DNA matches, I came upon Bob. He shows in a ThruLine with me as being potentially from the John Line of Frazers. I had also tentatively placed his McPartland Line on the James Frazer Line of Frazers. James was the father of Michael Frazer. At that point, the Blog went spiralling out of control and I went into Frazer genetic genealogy overload. I decided that rather than put Mary and Bob into the John Frazer Line, that I would step back, think about it and do more analysis on the DNA and genealogy. I did add Bob to the McPartland DNA/genealogy tree. To complicate matters, Karen and Chris above tested with FTDNA, Charlene tested at MyHeritage, and Bob tested at AncestryDNA. However, I believe that all four have posted their results at Gedmatch which is now Gedmatch Genesis. This should make analysis of their DNA results easier.

Susan is Back on My Michael Frazer ThruLines

At my first look at ThruLines I had an interesting match with Susan. Unfortunately, her ThruLines went away. I predicted that she might come back and she did. Here she is again:

After Susan disappeared I tried tracing her ancestry back anyway, but got stuck at her Patterson great-grandmother level.

Building Susan’s Tree: Part 2

Here is where I got stuck last time:

Between James Hazzard and Mary Jane Patterson, we go from Susan’s tree to Barry’s tree on ThruLines. Here is a nice record I would like to borrow from Barry’s tree:

Here are James’ parents:

I have James’ mother as Mary Jane. Here she shows as Mary. In Barry’s tree she is Mary Jane. This critical marriage record ties together Barry’s and Susan’s trees.

According to Barry’s tree, Jane was quite young when she married. At least by today’s standards:

Here I owe a lot to Barry:

Jane dies young at thirty one years eight months. That would put her birth in 1854.

Making the Jump from Patterson to Frazer

From Mary Jane, I need to figure out how to get back to Frazer. Here, Barry shows that way again:

This is Catherine’s second marriage. Here she is linked to Arthur, Ontario. She is also linked to Ireland and Archibald Fraser and Catharine Nott. She went from marrying a ‘Pattison’ to a Patton. Without Barry’s tree, I think I would have struggled with this genealogy.

Here is the Township of Arthur:

Here is Catherine in 1861 not too long after her second marriage to Andrew Patton:

I’m glad to see Jane listed here also. This family of four lived  in a log house. Here is a map of where these families lived in 1861 in Southeast Arthur:

A Sneak Preview of Where We May Be Headed with Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott

Here is my combined DNA/genealogy chart:

It looks like Susan should end up under the orange circle. I am in the left branch. That is in green because I’m mostly sure that is right. The same is true for the McPartland Branch which is also under Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott. If I match Susan and she is in this group, that adds to the likelihood that I have it right.

Here is Catherine’s death record:

Here she is listed as being born in  County Sligo. Many Frazers were from North Roscommon, but some were over the border in County Sligo. Here is a birth record from Kilmactranny Parish in County Sligo for an Ann Jane:

Anne Jane Frazer  daughter of  Archibald and Catherine Frazer
Born  Dec 13, 1828                                                     
Bapt.  Dec 17, 1828

If Susan’s Catherine was born between 1830 and 1842, it would not show as there is a gap in the Kilmactranny Registers for that period. The other issue is that I have that Archibald and Catherine were married in 1829 at Kilmactranny:

Mar 02, 1829    Archibald Frazer of Ardcarne

                                         Catherine Knott of Kilmactranny

                                             Witnesses:  Archd. Frazer,  Cath Frazer

That means that the Ann Jane above could have been the daughter of a different Archibald and Catherine Frazer.

Here is the Patton family in 1871 with a few extra children:

Putting It Together – Margaret and Catherine Frazer

If I have it right, the genealogy probably looks like this:

This shows that I descend from Margaret Frazer who was the sister of Susan’s 2nd great-grandfather Archibald Frazer.

My James Line Discrepancy

Unfortunately, my chart above doesn’t match what I have on Ancestry Tree.

I show Archibald and Catherine coming from Archibald Frazer and Catherine Peyton. I do show a Mary born much later married to Richard Hazzard. So the Hazzard names comes up more than once.

In addition to this, I have two different versions of the James Line on my Frazer web pages. In one, I followed one Frazer researcher and in the other I followed another Frazer researcher. My combined DNA/genealogy chart is more in line with my Frazer Web Page called Production Update:

The difference here is that I am missing Margaret which is the line I descend from. It appears that Margaret should be the eldest daughter of Michael Frazer born in 1794 and married to William McMaster. Above, there is another tie-in as I see that the above genealogy from my Frazer web page has Archibald dying in Arthur Township in 1866. That was where Catherine Frazer lived. Here is an entry at the Find A Grave Website:

Here is Kenilworth:

Here is a better version for my Ancestry Tree:

Here I still have a problem, as I have Catherine Peyton Frazer born in 1829 to Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott. I believe that the Catherine of this Blog was just plain Catherine and likely born to a different Archibald and Catherine Frazer. I’ll say that Susan’s Catherine was born in 1834.

Here is the family in the 1851 Census:

Here are the ages:

This family lived in a log house. Jane was born in Ireland in 1845 according to this Census, so the family moved to Canada between 1845 and 1852. Here is A. Frazer’s farm in 1861:

Kenilworth is near the middle of the Arthur map:

The upper circle is for Frazer. The lower circle is where Catherine Frazer Patton lived in 1861.

A Short Story of Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott

It helps me to put some of these events into a narrative. Archibald Frazer was born about 1801 probably in Ardcarn Parish North Roscommon. His parents were Michael Frazer and Margaret probably Stewart. In 1829 he married Catherine Knott from Kilmactranny Parish in Sligo at the Kilmactranny Church. Witnesses at the wedding were another Archibald Frazer and Catherine Frazer. Their first daughter Catherine may have been born as early as December 1829:

The records appear to show two different Catherine’s baptized in October and December of 1829. Archibald and Catherine were married 2 March 1829, so if this is Susan’s Catherine she would have had a little over 9 months to be born.

The couple had at least seven children. They were born between about 1829 and 1846:

  1. Catherine
  2. William Wynn
  3. Margaret Stewart
  4. James
  5. Fitzgerald
  6. Michael
  7. James

Probably around 1844, Archibald’s older sister (my ancestor) Margaret Frazer McMaster moves to Ontario with her three daughters and a son. Between 1846 and 1852, the Archibald Frazer family moves to Canada and settle on a farm in Kenilworth, Arthur, Wellington County, Ontario. In 1852,. By 1852, the oldest daughter, Catherine had been already married twice – first to Thomas Patterson or Pattison and then to Andrew Patton. Catherine has two daughters with Thomas and more children with Andrew. Catherine Patton lives on a farm also in Arthur in 1852.

The Census for 1861 is a little difficult to read:

Here it looks like the eldest son, William Wynn Fraser, has married – probably Rachel Reid. Likely widowed, she is 36 and a 13 year old Reid is living with them. They then have two of their own children. Either Archibald married another Catherine or she has not aged at all in 9 years.


Here is Catherine in 1871. She is now widowed and living with her two single sons:

Another Correction: Jane Frazer

In my tree above that I moved, I had Jane Frazer married to a Hazzard. That is apparently not right:

Perhaps she married again later?

Summary and Conclusions

  • I’m glad that Susan came back on my ThruLines. It allowed me to track the likely connection we have through common ancestors Michael Frazer and his wife in County Roscommon, Ireland
  • I was able to trace Susan’s Canadian ancestry from Hazzard to Patterson, to Fraser or Frazer.
  • Susan’s ancestors that made the move from Ireland to Ontario were Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott.
  • I have long known that I had a Frazer ancestor named Margaret who married a William McMaster. I only recently discovered that Margaret made here way to Ontario. I am now following up on her apparent brother Archibald’s family in Ontario.
  • Susan and I also have a shared DNA match. It may be worthwhile to check that connection out.
  • It would also take a bit more to tell the longer story of this family in Canada. I see from my DNA/genealogy chart descendants of Fitzgeral and Michael Frazer. They likely know their ancestors’ stories better than I do.



A Strange Frazer Lineage at ThruLines

I was going through all my ThruLines. Here is one that caught my eye:

The first thing that I noticed was that I had an extra Archibald 5th great-grandfather. I suppose that is all right because I am descended from him twice from what I can tell. This potential Archibald was said to be born in 1732 in Armagh:

Here are the ThruLines:

ThruLines mysteriously added a William Frazer to Archibald. This is despite the fact that the tree above had no William as a son and the William Fraser tree had no parents for William.

Going up from MA, ThruLines starts with MA’s private tree up to MA’s grandfather. Then it switches to Heather’s tree for two generations. Add on Merilyn’s tree for two generations ending with Lee’s tree at the top. Perhaps the Ancestry computers had a bad night.

Working Out MA’s Lineage

I can build a tree for MA, but it will be a little tricky. MA’s mother is listed as living and private. As a result, I don’t have a surname for MA. However, that shouldn’t matter. When I click on MA’s grandfather, I see this:

Ancestry gives me hints but they are all for Johnston Magill Fraser. This is not bad as the connection between the Johnston and Frazer families is known to have occurred in County Roscommon. I like to hold off on accepting tree hints at Ancestry. Here is a birth for Johnston in Peel County, Ontario:

Here is Johnston in 1953:

Here is Johnston in 1911:

Johnston’s father William was a farmer in Chinguacousy, Ontario. Under race or tribe, William and his children are listed as Irish and William’s wife Maud is listed as English. Irish is a good clue.

Looks like the former Chinguacousy is near current-day Brampton:

Moving Back a Generation to William John Frazer

According to the Census, William was born in Ontario in November 1869. This appears to be William in 1891 in Chinguacousy:

This gets us up to John Frazer born in Ireland in about 1832.

John Fraser Born About 1832 In Ireland

This John has 16 hints at Ancestry. I don’t see John’s original marriage record, but this information looks to be important:

Here we find out where Johnston got his middle name. Also, we now have John’s parents names: James and Elizabeth. Here is the family in 1861:

John would have named his first son after his father. I don’t see James in the 1871 Census.

Now I’m running out of hints at Ancestry. Here is one:

Here is a son of John named James Johnston Fraser. This is his marriage record. My guess is that John Fraser’s mother may have been a Johnston. Another possibility is that Jane McGill’s mother may have been a Johnston also, but I associate the Stinson name with Frazer.

David – Another John Fraser Descendant

I match another person by DNA who descends from John Fraser. He is David. This is his tree on his maternal side:

Back in 2015, I suggested that he should be in the Richard Frazer Branch of the Frazers based on triangulation and the fact that there was an available James in that Line who was unattached.

David is on the line on the left. Here I have added MA:

I’m not sure that David fully embraced being in this tree. I have had my doubts also, but my rationale still holds from 2015. Here is my triangulation analysis from 2015:

This shows that David triangulates by DNA with me (JH), my sister (HHM), Bill (BR) and Jane on Chromosome 12:

Since 2015, I can add Ken, Susan and Gladys to the list of those who triangulate with David. Here is Susan’s match with David – also on Chromosome 12:

The strength of triangulation is that it indicates a common ancestor. The problem is that the common ancestor is not always obvious. In this case, the common ancestor could be with Richard or his unknown wife or the common ancestor could be the parents of Richard’s unknown wife. However, if the ancestor is on the Frazer side, it seems like Richard would be the correct person as a lot of other Frazers have tested and David would be matching them also.

Back To My ThruLines Tree to MA

I don’t think that this tree can pass the straight face test.

This tree is OK up to John Fraser than it falls apart. John’s parents were James and Elizabeth Fraser. Ancestry picked a couple in Scotland who lived around that time with those names.

However, this couple does not show that they had a son named John born in Ireland. This couple would have had to have moved to Ireland and then had John. However, this tree has this James living in Scotland in 1861 and dieing there in 1869. They would have had to have moved to Ireland, had John and then moved back to Scotland.

William Fraser

The same problem exists for William. I have seen no other record indicating that Archibald had a son named William. If he did, he would have had to have traveled to Scotland from Ireland, had William and then traveled back. It all seems quite unlikely.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Ancestry used a DNA match I had with MA and stitched together a very unlikely link between me and MA
  • I built out MA’s tree and saw that it matched the genealogy of David who I also had a DNA match with
  • I had shown previously that David Triangulates with other Richard Frazer descendants. Richard was said to have a son named James born around the time that David and MA’s brick wall ancestor James was born.
  • Based on the triangulation I had put David in the Richard Branch of the Frazer line. I added MA to that Branch also.
  • I can’t tell if MA also triangulates with the other members of the Richard Frazer Branch as she has not uploaded her DNA results to Gedmatch.
  • With ThruLines, I will likely be repeating this process for other ‘strange’ lines.

A Look at Kathy’s Frazer ThruLines

In this Blog, I’d like to look at Kathy’s ThruLines. Kathy is in the Frazer DNA project. Actually I’ll be looking at her mom’s and her Aunt’s ThruLines. Here is a combined DNA/genealogy tree:

Kathy is in the 4th row. Kathy is in the James Line of the Frazer Project. James is one level above that which is shown above.

Kathy’s Mom Charlotte

Here is Charlotte’s ThruLine based on her great-grandfather Edward Wynn Frazer:

Charlotte has four DNA matches shown below her mother, but those matches would be with close relatives such as daughter, niece, nephew and sister. It would have been nice if there were a first cousin match – someone descending from Minnie Frazer. That way we could walk the DNA matches up. Sort of like a chain of evidence.

Edward Wynn Frazer

On the Edward Wynn Frazer, Charlotte matches WG:

Charlotte has a match with WG, but not a great one. I’ll start a table for Charlotte:

The <1% is not very good. According to AncestryDNA 2nd cousins once removed share 19 cM less than one percent of the time.  This is likely a red flag issue. In my Blog for Joanna, she also had a <1% match with a 2nd cousin once removed. This would make me want to check WG’s tree. However, his mother is private. I would have to check the tree starting at WG’s maternal grandfather who is listed as William Archibald Frazer. Here is William A in Poughkeepsie in 1910 at age 5:

Here is Poughkeepsie:

I’ll assume that WG has his grandfather correct in his tree. In 1920, William’s father decided that his parents were really born in Scotland and England:

A clue is that the oldest daughter is Mena, transcribed as Ismerie in the 1920 Census.

On to Edward Frazer Born About 1870

This looks to be Edward’s grave stone:

A child Phibbs may be another hint. Here is some more information from Find A Grave:

A father is missing for Edward and his son William A Frazer is missing for some reason.

Here is Edward in 1900:

He is naturalized, arrived in 1886, and married in 1897. Here we have a differnet rendition of their first daughter Ismena. This matches with the Ismena Jane White Frazer from Find A Grave.

Here is a possible birth record for Edward:

Many trees for Edward have him born in County Leitrim, Ireland including Kathy’s Tree. Here is another record for Edward in Ballina:

Here is Edward’s marriage record from St. Paul’s in Poughkeepsie:

Here are the parents:

Unfortunately, Edward was transcribed as a Frager in the Ancestry records.

It seems like all roads lead to Edward and Ismena Frazer. Here is Kathy’s tree for Charlotte’s mother:


A Quick Look at Minnie (Mary) Frazer Born 1865

The goal here is to match up Minnie with Edward. Here is Minnie in 1900 in Stonington, CT:

According to this record, Minnie was born in Ireland in November 1865. She came to the us in 1888. She married about 1895 and had two children in Rhode Island. Then they moved to Stonington, CT. Stonington is just over the line from Rhode Island:

On the next page of the Census we see that Minnie’s mother Emma J. Frazier was also living with them. She was born February 1838 and came to the US in 1893. She had six children and five were still living. It looks like she had been married for 37 years. The census says her husband was still alive. That means that Emma married in 1863 if I’m reading the Census correctly.

That means that this record is a good match:

Emma  or Ismena J Frazer Born February 1838

Here is Ismenia J Frazer in 1910 in Stonington, CT living with Minnie:

Here is a 1915 NY Census for 202 South Ave, Poughkeepsie:

Here is an Ismenia Frazer who is staying with the Cline family in Poughkeepsie. She is from Ireland and has been in the US since 1889. Perhaps this is the connection? At 75, she would have been born in 1840. The problem is that I don’t recognize the other people in the house. If she is living in Poughkeepsie, why wasn’t she staying with her son Edward A Frazer?

Edward Frazer was living at Linwood Ave, Poughkeepsie in 1920:

That is very close to 202 South Avenue. This shows to me a connection between Edward’s family of Poughkeepsie, NY and Minnie’s family of Stonington, CT. It doesn’t prove that Ismenia was the parents of Both Edward and Minnie, but it suggests that she was.

Bringing Charlotte Up the Frazer Tree to Archibald Born 1792

Quite quickly, Charlotte is back to the 1700’s with her 2nd great grandfather Archibald Frazer:

With Charlotte’s connection to Edward Wynne Frazer through her cousin WG, the DNA looked sketchy. There was less than 1% chance that the DNA match could be accurate. However, going up one level, Charlotte has many more matches to descendants of Edward Wynne Frazer’s two brothers William Fitzgerald and Thomas Henry.

Charlotte and the William Fitzgerald Branch

William Fitzgerald was the older brother, so we’ll start with him:

I was just looking at a grave marker for William Fitzgerald:

This William was a busy man and made his way from Ireland to Sacramento, CA. Here are the DNA results on the Whitten Branch:

I would be interested to see how WG matches MP and Pamela, but I don’t have access to those results. Somehow, the DNA perked back up in a further out generation.

Charlotte and the Thomas Henry Branch

I like how this branch has DNA matches on three different sons of Thomas Henry Frazer. I get confused sometimes because as I understand it, William Sarsfield was originally William Fitzgerald and he decided to change his name. I’m getting lazy now and not checking the genealogy.

Here is the summary I have:

I’ll add these matches to my Chart:

The orange-colored matches are in Ancestry but haven’t uploaded their DNA results to Gedmatch for comparison. The green line is a family that I’m not quite sure where they belong on the chart. In my DNA chart, Gail has the highest match to Charlotte by far. In fact, the top 40% mentioned would have her at 2nd cousin once removed. That means she matches more than is likely rather than less.

Up One Level to Archibald Frazer Born 1751

Charlotte has only one match here, but it is on an interesting Branch. That is the Edward Frazer Branch. I have to be careful, as I think I accepted the wrong genealogy last time. On Joanna’s matching branch there was a line with an Edward Wynn Frazer who died as a bachelor. Obviously, if you have an ancestor with no children, you have a problem. However, I didn’t see Edward Wynn Frazer in this tree:

This tree is stitched together, but I am assuming that it is correct. It appears that the Private 3rd cousin 1x removed was our famous Frazer cousin Maureen O’Sullivan:

That gives another person on Prudence’s lonely line on the right below:

This match that Charlotte has with Brittney is also a little larger than expected. AncestryDNA uses a cutoff of 20 cM for a fourth cousin and Britney is a fourth cousin, once removed to Charlotte.

Next Level: To the Top of the James Line

This next level will bring Charlotte over to the Michael Frazer Line. He was the brother of the Archibald we just looked at.

Charlotte has 3 matches on the Michael Frazer Line and 14 on the Archibald Line. If it were the other way around, we might wonder if Charlotte really belonged in the Michael Line. However, having said that, there are about three times as many DNA-tested descendants on the Archibald side compared to the Michael side.

Here are Charlotte’s three matches:

It is sort of like two matches because two matches are parent and child.

Charlotte gets her first perfect scores with BV and Bonnie with a 33 out of 33%. A few notes:

  • Charlotte matches Cheryl at a slightly level than her mother BV. This happens sometimes and is normal.
  • Charlotte only gets a score of 5% for her match with SH but gets a 32% with her sibling Gail. I will assume that these two are full siblings. This shows the variation that is possible in DNA.
  • We can’t say that Charlotte is not a 2nd cousin once removed to WG at 19 cM. There are reported values of 0-316 cM and a typical value is 123cM. However, the relationship comes under more scrutiny at this level.
  • Overall, I would say that Charlotte’s matches make sense. It looks like once you get to the 5th cousin level, if you have any sort of a match under 20 cM, Ancestry says that it is pretty good.

Kathy’s Aunt Madeline

Next we’ll look at Kathy’s mother’s sister Madeline to see how the numbers compare. As Madeline is a sister of Charlotte, I would expect many of the same results. Like Charlotte, Madeline has no ThruLines for her grandmother Minnie Frazer and one for her great-grandfather Edward Wynn Frazer. However, the match is smaller than Charlotte had:

I also added in Madeline’s other matches while I was at it.

I’m beginning to see how AncestryDNA does it’s top percentages. Gail, with a 97 cM gets a top match percentage of 40. As I recall, that top 40% was if Charlotte and Gail were 2nd cousins once removed. That means with a larger match there is more certainty. When Ancestry’s top percentage is at 27%, the match levels are just above 20 cM. Ancestry uses 20 cM as the threshold for a 4th cousin. However, the results just above 20 are somewhat ambiguous. Below the 20%, Ancesty is more sure that the results will be in the 5th cousin range, so the top percentage goes up a bit to 33%.

Here is the same chart sorted by relationship:

  • The problem match is at the top. It would be good to have more 2nd cousin matches to compare.
  • There are not many 4th cousin matches, but that is a result of the genealogy. It appears that there aren’t as many people in that Edward Frazer Line – at least not many that have had their DNA tested.
  • In general the likelihood of the matches representing the relationship go from low to high as the relationships get further out. The one exception is Charlotte’s match with Gail. I take that to be unusual based on the other matches and with Gail’s match with Charlotte’s sister Madeline.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Like Joanna’s Thrulines, Kathy’s mom and Aunt had a match with a 2nd cousin once removed that had a very low probability of <1%.
  • I took a quick look at some of the genealogy between Kathy’s descent from Edward Wynne Frazer and her low probability match’s descent from Edward Wynne Frazer. I found a connection between them and the wife of Edward Wynne Frazer who was Ismenia or Ismena [Jane?] Whtie Frazer. She appears to visit her daughter on Kathy’s side in Stonington, CT and her son on the DNA match’s side in Poughkeepsie, NY.
  • Kathy’s mom and Aunt had a lot of DNA matches in the 3rd cousin range.
  • Kathy’s mom and Aunt had an interesting match with a granddaughter of Maureen O’Sullivan at the 4th cousin level
  • I am still gaining experience with the ThruLines. I have noted a general rise in probability of matching from the 3rd to 5th cousin levels. At least in these James Frazer Lines so far.
  • I expanded my James Frazer DNA Chart to include those matches on ThruLines. This fills in a lot of the blanks.

Some Frazer ThruLines and Joanna

AncestryDNA has a new utility called ThruLines. The general idea is that they look at DNA matches and patch together trees on those DNA matches to the people who match. Sounds like a good idea, even though things could go wrong. The things that could go wrong are shaky trees and/or shaky DNA matches. However, let’s take a look.

Frazer ThruLines – An Overview

I have done a lot of work with Frazer relatives using Gedmatch. However, this new tool is quite interesting. When Ancestry comes up with a new tool, people take notice due to the millions of people who have tested their DNA there. I have access to ThruLines for some people in the Frazer DNA Project. Those people are:

  • Myself and four of my siblings – I am on at least the Philip and Richard Frazer Lines – both from the main Archibald Frazer. Then I most likely descend from the other main James Line through Margaret Frazer and William McMaster.
  • Gladys – She is on the Archibald Main Line also. She descends from the Philip, Richard and Archibald/Stinson branches of that Line.
  • Jane – She is also on the Richard and Archibald/Stinson Line. Jane’s Archibald/Stinson Line seems to be better verified by genealogy.
  • Michael – He descends from the same lines that Jane does.
  • Richard – I believe that Richard is from the Philip Line. However, there are different degrees of uncertainty on many of these lines due to how far the matches go back and lack of paper trails.
  • Joanna – She is on the James Main Line and comes down through James son Archibald born 1751
  • Beverly – Beverly is on the same Main James Line but descends from James’ son Michael born 1764.

The DNA Family Trees

I have  built some trees of Frazer descendants who have had their DNA tested. These trees have generally included those who have uploaded their DNA to Gedmatch. Gedmatch has made it easier to analyze the detailed DNA as AncestryDNA does not supply that detailed chromosome information.

The Archibald Main Line

Here is an overview of the Archibald Main Line:

The three brothers near the top are Philip, Richard and Archibald. Cousin Richard is in the green branch on the left. My siblings and I are in the blue branch under Philip, but also belong under the Richard Line due to a cousin marriage. Jane in the Army green line was added to the Richard Line due to all her matches there and seems to fit in. Gladys is actually the sister of the person circled and is in all three brother Branches. Michael is in the Richard Line and an abbreviated rendition of Michael is shown in the Archibald/Stinson line on the right above. David is included in purple due to a Frazer in his ancestry and DNA matches. He would be one of those branches with higher uncertainty.

The ones that I have circled are just the ones who I have access to their ThruLines. Many more Frazer’s have tested at AncestryDNA.

 The James Main Line

I have access to only Joanna and Beverly on this Line, though many others have tested at AncestryDNA.

Below I cut off the left-hand side of the James Branch to save room:

I have also put my family in green where they may match up with the James Main Line. It is possible that the green branch should be under the Michael Branch.

James Line ThruLines

I’ll start with the James Line Branch as I have access to only two people in that Line. Joanna has already started doing her own ThruLine analysis on the James Line.

Joanna’s ThruLines

Starting slowly, we see Joanna’s connection with her dad:

This is the obvious stuff, but good research starts in the known present and works back to the unknown past. Going up a generation to Joanna’s grandfather doesn’t add any more matches. However, at Joanna’s great-grandfather level, there are some new matches:

Joanna’s grandfather has a brother William Fitzgerald Frazer who has 7 descendants who match Joanna by DNA.

Joanna matches four descendants of Minnie and three of Walter.

Let’s look at Joanna’s matches to Minnie’s descendants:

One thing I notice that is odd is that Joanna matches Steve by one more DNA segment than Kay. I wonder why?

What Are the Odds?

Next, all the match levels have probabilities associated with them when I click on them. Let’s start with the two second cousins, once removed. They are Chris and Kay.

Chris matches Joanna by 18 cM. Ancestry thinks that has a low probability of being right:

Rather than show each chart, I’ve summarized Joanna’s four matches on the Minnie Branch:

Steve’s likelihood of being a good match is much better than his mom Kay’s. 22% seems low, but it was the second highest category with 25% being the highest in this situation.

Joanna and Walter James Frazer

Here the relationships are a little closer but the DNA matches are much, much higher.

I’m not sure what to make of this. This seems to say that Joanna’s match with the Minnie line is more unlikely and that her matches with the Walter James Line are more likely.

Joanna’s Next Ancestor: Archibald Frazer born 1792

Here Joanna has only one match to give evidence to their common ancestor:


Remember above that Chris had a match of 18 cM but he was supposed to be a second cousin, once removed. WG is a 3rd cousin once removed. Chris had a bad likelihood score of <1%. Let’s see what WG gets:

Next Up: Archibald Frazer Born 1751

[Note: The genealogy in this Thruline is not correct. See my correction in my next Blog:]

Joanna’s in luck as Archibald 1792 had a brother:

That brother was some sort of hot-shot based on the size of his tomb stone. By the way, the 11 DNA matches shown above Joanna are the ones we already looked at.

CK and DK have low level matches with Joanna. We’ll put them into my spreadsheet:

When Joanna went back a generation, her percentages went up.

It’s Too Late To Turn Back: James Frazer Born 1720

Joanna has this James as James Frazer of Clerragh:

We are fortunate that Archibald born 1751 had a brother Michael:

Joanna is getting more DNA action on the Michael Line. Here there are five matches. There are two I haven’t opened up yet under Patrick Henry Frazer.

Joanna and Mollie

First off, Mollie and I share the same ancestors of Margaret Frazer and William McMaster, so I find that interesting. The other interesting thing is that Mollie and Joanna are shown as fifth cousins, once removed. That goes off the charts:

Ancestry is giving percentages for up to 5th cousin, but after that, they don’t even want to make a guess.

Joanna and the Michael Line

Here are the numbers for all of Joanna’s ThruLines:

I added in a column for cM. This to point out that Joanna’s matches on the James Frazer line were as high or higher as that with the Archibald Frazer line which is a generation closer. The DNA would suggest, apart from the genealogy, that Joanna could as easily or more easily descend from the Michael Frazer Branch than the Archibald 1751 Branch. Of course, other factors may come into play such as the randomness of DNA inheritance and matching on collateral lines.

Another interesting thing is Mollie’s ancestry. She is said to descend from Margaret Frazer which I do also. I had thought that Margaret descended from the Michael Line, but the more I look at the DNA, it makes me think that Margaret might descend from the Archibald 1751 Branch where Joanna has herself. If Mollie and Joanna both descend from the Archibald 1751 Branch, then that could explain the large match that Joanna and Mollie have.

Joanna has no additional matches up to the next generation to Archibald born about 1690. He was the father of Archibald and James Frazer – the two Main Lines.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I had meant to go through all the Frazer descedants who I had access to at AncestryDNA and look at their ThruLines. That would take too long, so I’ll go through them at a slower pace.
  • I started looking at Joanna’s ThruLines. Joanna’s matches showed some irregularities, but I would like to look at other Frazer descendant matches to see how they compare.
  • Joanna had matches at the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th cousin levels leading up to James Frazer of Clerragh. [Note: the 4th cousin match was not correct. See my correction in the following Blog.]
  • Joanna had a larger than expected match to Mollie who shows the same mysterious Margaret Frazer ancestor that I have.
  • I am only looking at the DNA here. The genealogy has to be taken into consideration.
  • I am thinking that in the Archibald Branch with all the Frazer cousin matches, that ThruLine analysis could be complicated.
  • I would like to look at Beverly from the James Line next.


Checking Out a New Frazer ThruLine Match at AncestryDNA

Since the new ThruLine program came out, I have taken a look at some of the hints there.

Hey, look. There is my head with ancestor lines going through it.

My Ancestor, Michael Frazer?

I have been working on a Frazer DNA project for about 4 years now and have not created a connection with Michael Frazer that I can vefify. I am related to many Frazers on two different lines starting in the early 1700’s. Those two main lines are Archibald Frazer and James Frazer. I am related to many on the Archibald Line. I am also related by DNA more distantly to the James Line, but I have been unable to figure out the exact connection. I can get about this far:

This line goes through my Frazer side to my McMaster side and then back to Margaret Frazer at the top. My notes have William McMaster and Margaret Frazer marrying in 1813, so I’ll say she was born around 1792.

 The ThruLine Connection Was

My original connection looked like this:

This showed me matching through Susan up to Michael Frazer. Now I can’t find Susan as she has disappeared as my ThruLines connection to Michael Frazer. I wonder if she will re-appear. Perhaps ThruLines is still in flux or Susan changed her tree. The interesting thing about the connection was that Susan’s tree stopped at James Hazard and mine stopped at Margaret Frazer, but somehow Ancestry made the connection to Michael Frazer at the top.

Now my connection to Michael Frazer looks like this:


Now I’m connected through Keith and at one level lower in our connected family tree. Keith also lacks Michael Frazer in his tree, so how was the connection made?

More On Michael Frazer Trees

When I go to Michael Frazer on my tree, I see some hints. One of those hints leads to Joanna’s tree – among many other trees. Joanna has this:

Joanna shows Margaret Frazer as daughter of Michael Frazer and Margaret Stewart and married to William McMaster. Joanna also mentions a Marriage in 1813. However, how the connection was made between Margaret Frazer and Michael Frazer is unclear. My guess is that Ancestry grabbed Joanna’s tree and applied it to me. I asked Joanna if this was an educated guess on her part and that seems to be the case.

Looking for Susan

I was able to find Susan by searching by her last name. Here is the tree that Susan has:

The names of Johnston and Hazzard sound familiar in Frazer genealogy. However, I am having some problems getting past James Hazard or Hazzard or Hassard before 1877.

My Sister’s Connection to Michael Frazer

I note that my sister Heidi also has a connection to Michael Frazer:

Here Richard is showing as descending from Patrick – a different son of Michael. Here is Richard’s tree:

Richard’s tree stops with his paternal great-grandmother Daisy Belle Frazer. However the connection above shows more:

The note under George H Frazer says that he is from lulu’s tree. That means that ThruLines takes the DNA match between Heidi and Richard and applies lulu’s tree to Richard to make the connection.

Summary of Michael Frazer and ThruLines

  • I found an interesting connection between Susan and myself that lead up to Michael Frazer.
  • This initial ThruLine connection disappeared
  • I was unable to easily recreate the connection that Susan had to Michael Frazer
  • It looks like Ancestry pulled my connection to Michael Frazer from a tree by Joanna. She made an educated guess that Margaret Frazer was the daughter of Michael Frazer in hopes that she would find connections to other trees.
  • I checked my sister Heidi and she had a connection to Michael Frazer through Michael’s child Patrick down to Richard. It was easier to see how Richard was connected to Michael Frazer via a tree from lulu.

It would seem that ThruLines has given more support to Joanna’s educated guess that my ancestor Margaret Frazer’s father was Michael Frazer. However, my match with Susan showed that she had a genealogical connection to Michael as originally shown by Thrulines. If this original connection between Susan and Michael Frazer could have been shown to be true, then this would have created a sort of triangulation between myself, Susan and Richard and provided more evidence that Margaret was the daughter of Michael Frazer. In order to give even more proof, I would then need to show that I did not have DNA connections to descendants of Archibald Frazer and Catherine Peyton:

I think that this may be difficult to show.

The other question is: what if Joanna had attached Margaret Frazer to Archibald Frazer above? Would that then show that I am related to people who descend from Archibald Frazer and Catherine Peyton? In fact, that has been my most previous thinking as I have myself that way in proposed tree:

Part of the reasoning the the tree above is that I have matches to the other green McPartland group. However, what if the McPartland group belongs under the Michael Line? At some time, I should learn how to used the DNA method called What Are the Odds? (WATO) and see if that sheds any light on the subject.

MyHeritage and the Theory of Family Relativity

First, MyHeritage gets credit for a catchy name for their new utility. That reminds me of this cartoon:

MyHeritage is doing what AncestryDNA does in matching up family history trees and DNA. In this Blog, I’ll look at my top three matches at MyHeritage that use this utility.


I have blogged about this connection previously through Melanie’s mother Emily. Actually, it looks like I have written three Blogs on this connection. I was quite happy to come across Melanie and Emily. Here is Melanie and my shared tree at MyHeritage:

As a result of our connection, I shared a photo I had of Melanie’s great-grandmother Violet Frazer which appears on her tree. Melanie says this would have been taken on her wedding day. This was a very clear and clean match. Melanie and I share 19.9 cM of DNA.

Celeste: Theory of Family Relativity #2

I don’t recall Celeste. So this is a new find for me.

Celeste and I share 12.7 cM of DNA on Chromosome 9:

I have a web page on the Snell family and what I have matches what Celeste has. In fact, Norman was born in the same Town that I was. Here are our common ancestors:

Mary Ann was from Nantucket. Her father had a business repairing ships. Otis was on an early whaling voyage from New Bedford to Hawaii. He jumped ship, made his way to Nantucket and married Mary Ann in 1828.

Celeste and Snell/Parker at DNA Painter

I can paint Celeste’s DNA onto my chromosome map:

This takes up a small segment in dark blue on the top part of Chromosome 9 (the paternal part) that was already taken up by my great-grandparents’ DNA. However, this DNA goes further back in time and is more specific.

Here is the expanded view of the paternal side of my Chromosome 9:

The dark blue overlaps with Beth and Jim, so that means that Beth and Jim should have Snell/Parker DNA in that area of their Chromosome 9 also.

Marilee: Family #3

My match with Melanie was known and accurate. My match with Celeste was unknown and accurate. My match with Marilee is known, but I had a different connection shown than MyHeritage shows. This is what MyHeritage shows:

Here is how I had Marilee’s connection:

I show Marilee in a separate John Line in pink. MyHeritage shows us both in the Richard Frazer Line. I circled myself in the Philip Line, but I am also in the Richard line above. I left my family out of the yellow line to save room.

So how do I reconcile these trees? MyHeritage (MH) shows an expanded view that seems convincing:

There is a connection shown and percentage that I had not noticed before. When I click on the green percentage, it gives a comparison between my tree and a third tree. The same with Marilee’s comparison. It compares Mariee’s John Frazer with a John James Frazer in another tree and gives the match a 100% probability.

There is another thing that I didn’t notice. There is a tab called Path 2:

This path compares to another tree, which I recognize as Joanna’s – a Frazer researcher.

So, Who Is Right?

We may both be right. All I have to do is show two lines of Frazer descent for Marilee and that will reconcile the two trees.

Marilee and the Richard Line

If Marilee is from the Richard Line, it would support the earlier birth dates for Richard and his siblings. So, that in itself is interesting. Here is what I have now for the Richard Line:

I’m not sure about David on the left. Jane was added in. She has many matches and appears to belong in this line. Here is a detailed comparison between John James Frazer and John Frazer:

Marilee’s Tree

Next, I compare this with Marilee’s tree:

Here is the disconnect. Both trees cannot be right. MyHeritage ignored Marilee’s tree in favor of two other trees. Interesting.

Based On the Above, Marilee Cannot Descend from John and Richard Frazer

That means that there is more work to be done to figure out which tree is right. One might argue that John Frazer born 1825 was named for his father’s father John born 1755. It may be that DNA analysis could shed light on which line Marilee would most likely be in. There is a program called What Are the Odds? (WATO). However, I have not used this yet. It takes two scenarios and looks at the odds of one scenario being more likely than the other based on DNA matching. This could be the subject of a future Blog in addition to more genealogical analysis.

Match #4: Warwick from New Zealand

I’m having fun, so why stop at three? Warwick is my third Irish connection out of my top four Relativily Matches:

According to MH, Warwick is my 4th cousin, once removed and we share 17.8 cM on Chromosome 12:

For a reality check, I make sure that I have Frazer grandparent DNA in that part of my Chromosome 12:

I do. I expect that my siblings Sharon, Jon and Lori will also match Warwick. They do. In fact Emily, Paul and Stephen who are known McMaster descendants are shared DNA matches between Warwick and me.

Checking Warwick’s Tree

Warwick’s tree matches with what I have on my McMaster Web Page – at least down to Samuel:

Let’s Paint Warwick

Warwick represents some very old DNA:

The darker colored DNA next to Warwick’s is my 2nd cousin Paul:

I now know that Paul’s Chromosome match with me goes back to his McMaster side. MH shows it like this:

Paul, Warwick and I are in a Triangulation Group (TG). This TG goes back to Abraham McMaster or his wife Margery.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I took my first look at MyHeritage’s Theory of Family Relativity to see how it worked
  • Match #1 was no surprise
  • Match #2 was a surprise as I didn’t know about it. I’m sure this match was buried deep in my match list and the program nicely pulled it out. The matching trees were easily verifiable.
  • Match #3 , Marilee, was on my radar. However, the MH utility brought into question Marilee’s tree. The utility disregarded Marilee’s tree in favor of two other trees. Now I am not sure of either tree and will need to do some more analysis of the Marilee’s DNA matches.
  • I ended the Blog with Match #4. This match easily mapped new DNA and a new common ancestor onto my DNA Painter Chromosome Map.
  • Overall, I like the program and now see how it works. MH has an advantage over the AncestryDNA programs in that they show where on the chromosome the matches take place.
  • The down-side to the MH Relativity is that I only have 6 matches in the program. The two that I didn’t look at are related to the ones that I did look at.