Two New Nicholson DNA Matches

I just noticed that I had a new Nicholson DNA match named Jessica:

Jessica shows to match on my mother’s side. Ancestry has already figured out that Jessica and I have a common ancestor:

Ancestry would like me to evaluate Jessica’s tree. The Docrill threw me off a bit, as I have a Maria Baxter Nicholson in my tree:

I also had that Maria died in 1866. I wonder where I found that. Perhaps I got the wrong person:

In 1861, I have that Maria Baxter Nicholson was living in Liverpool with her grandmother Ann Ellis:

This is why I like Census records so much. They tell quite a story. Here we have three generations of Nicholsons. From a previous Blog, I have that Ann Baxter is Ann Ellis who is the daughter of the elder Ann Roebuck Ellis listed in the Census:

I see this record online:

One reason this marriage to George Dockrill makes sense is that the Dockrill name is carried down in the US in Walter Nicholson’s Line:

This name must have been given in this family to rememer the Nicholson sister Maria who stayed in England. Assuming we have this right, Walter would have been a younger brother of Maria Baxter Nicholson. He named his son George Dockrell or Dockrill Nicholson.

More DNA Matches for Jessica

As it was not easy to find a marriage record between Maria Baxter Nicholson and George Nehemiah Dockrill, let’s look at some more DNA matches. Jessica matches my mother at 128 cM:

That is a substantial match. That means that I need to erase the early death record I had for Maria Nicholson. I’ll also add Jessica to my Nicholson DNA match Tree:

Jessica is in the first column.

Another DNA Match with Michelle

I can look at DNA matches that are shared between Jessica and my Mom. I see an interesting shared DNA match with Michelle and my Mom. They share 59 cM across three segments. Here is Michelle’s tree on her paternal side:

My attention is drawn to Michelle’s ancestor Francis Nicholson. When I search Ancestry for Francis, I find this record in someone’s tree:

My web page on the Nicholsons has a Henry here:

There is also a Matthew Henry on my web page, but this one makes more sense as Henry is the older brother of William who is my 2nd great grandfather. The tree above has this Henry born 1831 and I have him born 1822, so that is a bit of a dscrepancy. The tree above has Henry married to Ann Bainbridge. I have Matthew Henry married to Mary Ann Bailey.

Here is Matthew Henry and Mary Ann Bailey in 1861:

Matthew Henry was a boss of some type and his sister-in-law was the housemaid. It looks like he had an adopted daughter Mary. That seems to rule out Matthew Henry as Michelle’s direct ancestor.

More on Henry NIcholson

Here is Henry and family in 1861:

Here we still have the age discrepancy. If Henry was 29 in 1861, then that is where the later birth of 1832 must come from. I believe that this is the same Henry in 1841:

Concerning Henry’s age:

Ages in the 1841 Census

The census takers were instructed to give the exact ages of children but to round the ages of those older than 15 down to a lower multiple of 5. For example, a 59-year-old person would be listed as 55.

That means that Henry would have actually been around 18 in 1841. Henry’s father Matthew had died the yeaer before in 1840. In 1841 Henry was a cutler and in 1861, he was a table knife [hafter?].

Here I have added Michelle and Henry Nicholson into my DNA/Ancestry tree. That means that Michelle is Gladys’ (my mother’s) third cousin once removed. This is where the DNA gives some confidence to the relationship when some of othe genealogical records are missing.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I don’t get many new third cousin DNA matches, so Jessica was a good find
  • Jessica descends from Maria Nicholson. I was not aware of this Nicholson Line before I found out about the DNA match with Jessica.
  • Jessica and my mother have a shared match with Michelle. Michelle descends from Henry Nicholson. The DNA connection fills in some of the missing or not yet found yet genealogical records.

Newpaper Articles on My Mother’s Side

My mom was from the Philadelphia area.

Rathfelder

Here is something from the Philadelphia Enquirer on 30 August 1936:

Various people then answer my grandmother’s question.

The Philadelphia Inquirer on September 17, 1943 announced the death of my mother’s brother:

My Uncle Russel’s death noted 12 January 1999:

Lentz

Here are some Lentz names from my mother’s ancestry:

This appears to be an early mention of George Lentz of Northern Liberties in 27 September 1805:

George was a butcher in Northern Liberties, so it would make sense that he would want to be on a vigilance committee. Here is George listed in the 1810 Census in East Northern Liberties:

Here is the translation:

I have that Georg (or George) was born in 1770, so he would be 40 in 1810. The two older people would be George and his wife. The four younger ones could be George’s children.

Here is the 1800 Census:

This indicates perhaps a son under 10. So he would have been born between 1790 and 1800. Here is what I have on my web page:

This does not seem to match with the Census. As I have my line through John above, then Georg born 1798 may not be right. However, based on the 1810 Census, there were two males who were between 16 and 25. That means that they were born between 1785 and 1794. Something still seems off.

This John is probably George’s brother:

He is listed near George in the Direct Tax of 1798:

Here George was living at New 4th and Coats. It looks like John was on West 3rd Street. Here is an 1802 map of Northern Liberties:

4th Street is the Street on the left going up and down. 3rd Street is the next long Street to the right of 4th. As I only see one house on the corner of 4th and Coates, I assume that is the George Lentz house. In the newspaper ad above John lives on 3rd Street above the Coates Burying Ground, which I assume is on Coate’s Street. So using a newspaper, tax records and an old map, it seems we get an idea of where some of these Lentz families lived. There is another John Lentz listed in Philadelphia newpaper articles but he lives in Passyunk.

This ad from 31 August 1812 in the Aurora General Advertiser mentions the George Lentz property:

It appears that this property just happened to be next to where George Lent lived.

Here is an ad from 20 December 1851:

I recognize the firm of Lentz & Young as a place one of my ancestors worked. I found that Lentz and Geisler also had many contracts with the almshouse such as this one recorded on 13 August 1861:

Jacob Lentz was my third great-grandfather. Here is part of a poster that one of my relatives sent me from 1851:

10 July 1863:

Here is Jacob’s death notice from the Evening Telegraph on Saturday 6 Feruary 1869:

Jacob’s wife died over thirty years later. Here is the 1 May 1900 Notice:

George Washington Lentz

Here is George death notice:

This was from the Philadelphia Inquirer on 20 February 1888. Here is another notice from the Philadelphia Times from February 17:

Baker

I have that my 2nd great-grandmother was Mary Baker. Her father was Conrad Baker (1800-1881). Here is the notice from 28 February 1881:

Here is East Mongomery Ave in Fishtown:

Nicholson

I can start with my mother’s grandmother. This is from 24 September 1951:

This appears to be the Cemetery:

Here is Annie’s father in the paper of 11 June 1919:

He was also buried in the same cemetery.

Agnes D Nicholson

I have that Agnes who was Annie’s sister married David Vickery. She died at the same place that Annie died. This was at a Presbyterian Home for Widows and Single Women on 58th and Greenway Ave.

Agnes died about 7 years after Annie.

Summar and Conclusions

  • There could be many other paths to follow in the newspaper aritcles
  • The newer articles have the most information, so they are important in bringing the various family lines forward
  • Reading these newpaper articles spurs research using sources other than newspaper.com which also helps to fill in missing family information.

 

 

Another Nicholson Heard from at 23andMe

Lately I have been reaching out to Nicholson descendants at 23andMe who match me by DNA. The last one that I had identified was Dave and I wrote a Blog about my match with him here.

It turns out that this match is with Cynthia who is Dave’s sister. I didn’t realize that until I just checked. Cynthia’s common matches with me.

This shows that David is my third cousin and Cythia’s brother.

Here is how we match. I’ll need to add Cynthia into David’s box on the lower right. Cynthia didn’t know much beyond her Nicholson grandfather. I have more on the Nicholson family here. Here is Walter’s baptismal record from Kensington Presbyterian Church:

Walter is Cynthia’s Nicholson great-grandfather. Walter and his brother George Dockrill Nicholson were both baptized on April 4, 1886 when they were 10 or 11. Cynthia’s grandfather George Dockrill Nicholson was named for Walter’s brother.

My DNA Match with Cynthia

My DNA match with Cynthia is similar to the one I have with her brother David, but larger:

Here is my match with David:

I match David on the same Chromosomes but for less on each Chromosome.

I had added David to my Chromosome map, now I can add Cynthia. Here is Cynthia on Chromosome 8:

My match with Cynthia is represented by the third purple bar. Her match overlaps some with Linda. In order for these people to match me, each of our unique mixes of chromosome inheritances have to match up. David and Cynthia’s DNA matches with me do not overlap with each other

Other people that match me on this Chromosome are Linda, Carolyn, Beth and Robert.

Robert and Beth are the great-grandchildren of Sarah Nicholson, my great-grandmother Annie’s older sister. Linda and Carolyn descend from Nellie Nicholson and David and Cynthia descend from Walter Nicholson. David and
Cynthia also have a 1st cousin Robert, but he tested at AncestryDNA, so he doesn’t have detailed DNA comparison information unless he uploads his results to Gedmatch, MyHeritage or Famly Tree DNA (FTDNA).

My DNA Match with Cynthia on Chromosome 20

We have two copies of each of our chromosomes. Both Cynthia and I match on our maternal copy of our Chromosome 20. That is because that is our Nicholson side.

Chromosome 20 is one of the shorter chromosomes. Judith descends from my closer Lentz and Nicolson ancestors, so she is in a different color. Cynthia’s DNA match with me on this chromosome overlaps my match with David and Carolyn, meaning we all got the same DNA from William Nicholson or his wife Martha Ellis there.

Here is what my maternal chromosomes look like now:

Cynthia brought my maternally mapped DNA up a percentage to 38%. The purple represents DNA from my great-grandmother Annie Nicholson. I have eight great-grandparents, so that represents roughly 12.5% of all of my DNA or 25% of my maternal side DNA. Taking this one step further:

5.5% divided by 12.5% is 44%. That is the amount of DNA from William Nicholson and Martha Ellis that I have mapped now.

Visual Phasing

I have mapped out by visual phasing where I got my DNA from each of my grandparents on all my chromosome. Here is Chromosome 8:

I am the third person on the chart. All my maternal side (green) DNA came from my maternal grandmother who was a Lentz. However, this is my Nicholson side also as my grandmother’s mother was a Nicholson. That explains why I match Nicholsons well on this Chromosome. My sister Lori has the second most Lentz DNA on the bottom row.

Here is Chromosome 20 for me and my siblings:

Again, I have all green or Lentz. By looking at my siblings’ DNA, you can get a good idea how DNA is inherited differently by each sibling. For example, my sister Sharon would not match Cynthia on this Chromosome as she has a lot of Rathfelder DNA on Chromosome 20. But she may match on another chromosome where I con’t match Cynthia.

23andMe Family Tree

23andMe suggests that I add Cynthia to their tree:

I also added David on the lower left part of the tree.

 

DNA Relative Chris at 23andMe – a Lentz/Nicholson Descendant?

I wrote to Chris about a year and a half ago because we had a good DNA match at 23andMe. I perhaps confused Chris by mentioning another common relative named Judy as Chris would not have known the last name of Judy. I sent a message recently about being able to see Chris’ DNA results and got a message back that Chris didn’t know Judy but was curious about her ancestry. I’m curious as to where we connect also.

My DNA Connection with Chris

Here are the places that Chris and I share DNA. Based on the amount of DNA we share, 23andMe guesses that we are 2nd cousins once removed. 23andMe also put my match with Chris onto their Family Tree:

 

The Judith who I mentioned is on the left. She descends from William Lentz. By the way that 23andMe has the tree, it seems like Chris should descend from one of William’s siblings. That is assuming that the tree was created correctly. I know that Judith is my 2nd cousin. 23andMe think that Chris and I are 2nd cousins once removed. That means that he was born a generation after me.

Here are Jacob Lentz and Annie Nicholson:

Jacob is wearing a bow tie and Annie is to his right. My grandmother Emma is in front of Annie and my mother is in front of Emma. This is what I have for the other people:

TOP – Uncle Stanley, grandfather Lentz, Grandmother Lentz
MIDDLE – Aunt Agnes, Cousin Hazel, Gladys’ Mom
BOTTOM – Cousin Doris, Rob, Cousin Rob Poole, Muriel, Gladys

Some Lentz Genealogy

Since I have looked at a DNA tree, let’s look at the Lentz familyTree

Judy descends from William. I descend from Emma. That leaves Stanley and Agnes for Chris. I don’t see a record that Agnes’ son Robert was married or had children. That seems to leave Stanley Lentz.

Stanley Lentz Born 1894

These are the children I have for Stanley:

I couldn’t find much information about Hazel Lentz.

This findagrave.com record suggests that Doris may never have married:

Stanley Lentz

He had these children:

That filled in some more of my Lentz genealogy, but shed no light on how I match Chris.

William Lentz

I have that Judith descends from William. Perhaps Chris does also. I’ll look into some of his children.

Margaret Lentz

Margaret married John Viden. I couldn’t find a record that they had children.

Elva Lentz

I have this husband and children for Elval:

Bernice Lentz

In my last Blog, I had that Judy was the daughter of Florence. Now I see I should hae had her as the daughter of Bernice. I see this photo at Ancestry:

Judy shared the above photo with this caption:

My guess is that Judy is Bernice’s only child.

This family lived in Pitman, NJ:

Emma Lentz

Emma was born a little over a year before my mother:

I’m sure there were other descendants, but no clear connection to Chris, my DNA Relative at 23andMe. If Chris gets back to me with more family information, I’m sure I will be able to make a connection.

 

Newly Found Rathfelder Records

I recently joined the Latvia Genealogy Facebook Page which has been a good thing. Right away someone found my grandfather’s birth and baptismal record.

It looks like my grandfather Alexander was a year older than I thought. I had that his birth was on 11 June 1894. This record is from 1893. This record is from St Paul’s Lutheran Church in Riga.

It looks impressive.

When was Alexander born? The months of June and July look similar in German:

Juni—named for the goddess Juno, patroness of marriage and of well being of women
Juli—named after Julius Caesar. Renamed from Quinctilis, which meant ‘fifth’ because July used to be the fifth month

The month would be July. The year would be 1893. That leaves the day.

I’m having trouble figuring out the number of the day. The day on the right must be the baptism (Taufe). So that date must be later than the first.

Here are the German words for the 15th, 16th and 17th:

  • fünfzehnte
  • sechzehnte
  • siebzehnte

Alexander’s sponsors:

They look to be Martin Wilhelm Stahlberg and Ottilie Gagnus. I assume that Ottilie was a relative.

Alexander’s WWI Draft Registration Card

This hint came up at Ancestry:

At this time, Alexander apparently went by Sigfried. Here, his birth is listed as June 11, 1893. I’ll go with that date for his birth. This record was from 1917, so about three years before the 1920 Census. Here is where Alexander aka Siegfried lived in 1917:

Siegfried was a citizen of Russia and worked as a L. Guard (?). He lists his mother as being dependent on him for support. The second page states that his right leg was shorter by three inches:

This record from about a year and a half after Alexander entered the US.

More on Leo Rathfelder

I was able to re-find Leo’s birth and baptism record:

He was baptized in 1896 at St Peter’s Lutheran in Riga:

This Church was closer to the Center compared to St Paul’s where Alexander was baptized. Perhaps this represented a move by the Rathfelder family within Riga. I wonder if there is an address on the birth record above. It could be below the birth date. Here is St Peter’s:

The website says it is a 15th century Church.

Passport Information for Leo

The same helpful person that found Alexander’s birth and baptismal record, found passport information for Leo at FamilySearch:

This document appears to be from 1926, so when Leo was about 30:

Here are the links to Leo’s passport information:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSTW-ZQN5-K?mode=g

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSTW-ZQN1-S?mode=g

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSTW-ZQFY-C

You need to be signed in to FamilySearch to see the results. Here is another photo from a later passport:

One of the files contains 50 pages of images. This must be due to the fact that Leo worked on a ship and traveled a lot. If I understood Latvian, I would know more about what all the files say. As there are three photos in the files, that must represent three passports. Use of these passports began around 1919, so my grandfather would not have had one.

The stamps in one of Leo’s passport records will add some color to my Blog:

These records fill in some details on the lives of brothers Alexander and Leo Rathfelder

 

My Nicholson Ancestors in Liverpool

I was recently looking up information on my mother’s grandmother Annie Nicholson and found a baptismal record for her and her sister Agnes from Liverpool. In that record, her father was listed as a saw maker. This was too much of a coincidence not to be true.

Nicholson Genealogy

Here is what I have at my Nicholson Web Page:

Ann is child 3 and Agnes is child for. This information is now probably wrong as I have them both being born in Sheffield. I had just assumed that they were born there as the Nicholson family history went back quite a ways in Sheffield. My assumption was that they emmigrated from Sheffield to Philiadelphia.

From Sheffield to Liverpool

The time that the Nicholson family was in Liverpool was not caught on the Census as the family was in Sheffield in 1861:

 

Parkwood Springs was part of Brightside:

It looks like Brightside is actually to the West of where I circled. At this time, William and Martha had a daughter who was 9 months old.

Not too long after the 1861 Census which was taken on April 7, the family moved to Liverpool. Sarah Ann was baptized there on January 19, 1862. I can’t make out William Nicholson’s profession other than he was a saw maker:

[Based on my research below, this says Fontenoy Street where the family lived in Liverpool before they moved to Bootle. ] This record is taken from the Bishop’s Transcript. That means that it was copied from another record. Sarah Ann’s sister Emma was baptized on the same day:

Here is a drawing of the downtown Liverpool St Peter’s Church from 1800:

 

My assumption is that Sarah Ann was born in Sheffield and Emma was born in Liverpool.

Ann Eliza and Agnes D

Ann Eliza was my great grandmother. Here is her baptismal record from St. Peter from 1865:

Ann Eliza was born in March and baptized in August. Also of interest is that the family lived in “Bootle”. Or Booth. But it looks like Bootle to me. Maybe the Beatles lived there. Bootle. Beatle. Here is Bootle to the North of Liverpool:

Bootle appears to be a little less than a mile from downtown Liverpool. My guess is that Ann Eliza and Agnes were born in Bootle.

Here is the baptismal record for Agnes:

This took place also at St. Peter’s Church in Liverpool on March 9, 1869.

From Bootle to Philadelphia

There was a tight time-frame for the family getting from Sheffield to Bootle. Now there was another tight time-frame for the Nicholson family moving to Philiadelphia. Here is the ship record for Martha and her children when they arrived in New York City:

William was likely already in Philadelphia at this time. Also it is interesting that Ann went by Eliza at this time. This record tells a story. Martha here traveling without her husband and her four girls from Liverpool to Queensland to New York City. From there they must have gone to Ellis Island and then made their way to Philadelphia where William must have prepared a place for them. My guess is that William missed the US Census that was held on June 1, 1870. However, according to the 1900 Census, William immigrated in 1868:

Let’s see what the 1910 Census says:

This shows he immigrated in 1870, and that he is naturalized. His wife also has an immigration date which doesn’t make sense as she is shown as being born in Pennsylvania.

Some More Parish Records from St Peter’s in Liverpool

My research friend in England reminded me that the Lancashire Online Parish Registers covers LIverpool. So I took a look there. Here is a confusing entry:

This looks like William and Martha were living in Liverpool in 1860 when Maria Baxter Nicholson was baptized. Here is a photo from 1901 of Fontenoy Street:

Here is an 1860 map showing Fontenoy Street:

Here is a modern map including the Beatles Statue:

However, the 1861 Census shows that my ancestors were living in Sheffield. William and Martha were married in 1856, so that would have given them time to have a daughter born in 1858. I can’t think that there were too many saw makers named William Nicholson who were married to a Martha who baptized their children in the same Church (St Peter, Liverpool).

Here is Maria in the 1861 Census in Liverpool The Baxters and others were living at 25 Fontenoy Street:

I might as well get more confused. Here Maria is a boarder or lodger at the house of William Baxter who is also a saw maker. Living in the house was Ann Ellis widow aged 66. So did William move back to Sheffield and say, “William take care of my daughter who I named after you”? And who is Ann Ellis? Martha’s mother was Nancy Roebuck born in 1795, so this could be the same person. That means that Ann Baxter must be Ann Ellis born about 1822:

This could also explain the Sheffield/Liverpool connection.

I see I left an important detail from the Baxter 1861 Census. That is where everyone was born:

Everyone in that Census was born in Sheffield except for Ann Ellis who was born in Thorne.  I have that my ancestor Nancy Ellis was born in Thorne, so this makes sense. That is what I like about the Census. It shows a lot of family relationships and gives a lot of information in a little space.

William Baxter and Ann Ellis

I feel I have enough information to go on to make a case that William Baxter’s wife Ann was actually Ann Ellis. Here is the family in 1851 in Nether Hallam to the West of Sheffield:

William was listed as a saw smith.

More On Ann Roebuck Ellis

Here is Ann in 1871 back in Sheffield:

Ann is listed as a lodger with Elizabeth Roebuck. As Elizabeth is listed as widowed, she could be a sister-in-law. Elizabeth is listed as born in Sheffield and Ann in Thorne.

What I Have Learned So Far

Perhaps a chronology would help

  • April 1858 Maria Baxter born to William Nicholson and Martha Ellis in Sheffield
  • June 1860 Sarah Ann born to William Nicholson and Martha Ellis in Sheffield
  • August 1860 Maria Baxter Nicholson Baptized, Liverpool
  • 1861 Census William, Martha and Sarah Ann living in Sheffield
  • 1861 Maria Baxter Nicholson living with Uncle William Baxter, Aunt Ann Ellis Baxter and grandmother Ann (Nancy) Roebuck Ellis
  • So it is not clear whether William and Martha Nicholson were present at the baptism of their daughter Maria Baxter. I had assumed that they were.
  • Dec 1861 – Emma Nicholson born, probably in Liverpool.
  • Jan 19, 1862 – Emma Nicholson baptized at St Peter’s in Liverpool.
  • Jan 19, 1862 – Sarah Ann Nicholson baptized at St Peter’s  in Liverpool. Emma’s and Sarah’s address is given as Fontenoy Street, Liverpool.
  • March 1865 – Birth of Ann Eliza Nicholson presumed in Boote, Lancashire.
  • August 1865 – Baptism of Ann Eliza at St Peter’s, Liverpool
  • Feb 1869 – Birth of Agnes D Nicholson in Bootle
  • March 1869 – Baptism of Agnes D at St. Peter’s, Liverpool
  • Nov 1870 – Martha Nicholson travels from Liverpool to New York City with her four daughters: Sarah Ann, Emma, Eliza and Agnes. The girls are between the ages of  and 11.
  • 1871 – Martha’s mother Ann Roebuck Ellis now 76 years old is living with Elizabeth Roebuck in North Sheffield.

That seems to summarize about 13 eventful years for the Nicholson family.

A Few Loose Ends

I haven’t found William Nicholson’s shipping record or naturalization records. This may be Maria’s death record from 1866:

Though the family should have been in Bootle by then.

I found out some things about Ann Ellis. I could fill more blanks in with her or her siblings. Here are her siblings:

Summary and Conclusions

  • While I was filling in my brother’s maternal side ancestry for DNA testing, I came upon a few interesting records that indicated my Nicholson ancestors may have lived in Liverpool before moving from Sheffield to Philadelphia
  • I checked the records and they did live there. In fact, my great grandmother Ann Eliza and four of her sisters were baptized in Liverpool.
  • I also found my third great grandmother living in Liverpool with William and Ann Baxter in 1861. This Ann was probably Ann Ellis, Martha Ellis Nicholson’s older sister. For some reason Willliam and Martha Nicholson’s youngest daughter was living in the Baxter house also in 1861 while William and Martha were in Sheffield with their infant second daughter.
  • I left with some follow up work to fill in some of the blanks.
  • I didn’ know last week that I had something in common with the Beatles. Now I know that I do.

 

 

A New Nicholson DNA Match with Robert at MyHeritage

MyHeritage occasionally sends me updates on my new DNA matches. Robert was one that stood out recently. Here is how my DNA match looks like with Robert:

Robert and I match on the above 5 chromosomes.

Robert’s Genealogy

Because of past experience, I know that I will match Robert on his maternal side. I believe that Martha Pote is a daughter of a Nicholson. Here is the relative spot where Robert fits in on my DNA matching/Nicholson Genealogy Tree:

I say relative place,  because I don’t know for sure whether Robert is Sadie’s father or uncle. If they had both tested at MyHeritage, I would be able to tell. Actually, I may be able to tell, because I have Sadie’s DNA painted. Either way, Robert is my third cousin and we share Nicholson and Ellis DNA – specifically from William Nicholson and Martha Ellis.

DNA Painter

Here is Sadie at DNA Painter. This is how she matches me:

If Sadie only had DNA matches that contain Roberts, she is most likely his daughter. If she has DNA matches that are different than Robert, then Robert is likely not her father. This is based on the fact that Sadie got all the DNA that matches me from her father. When I check DNA Painter, Sadie’s DNA is contained in Robert’s DNA matches, so it is likely her father. Plus I see Sadie’s email listed for Robert at Gedmatch, where his results also show up.

I have quite a few Nicholson matches already, but Robert adds some new DNA (see circled below):

The new areas of Nicholson/Ellis matches are on Chromosomes 1 and 5.

Here are some other matches on my maternal side Chromosome 1:

I have left out the names for privacy, but Robert is the purple match. He is right over Judith who is a closer match under Lentz/Nicholson. This tells me that my match with Judith is on her Nicholson side and not on her Lentz side.

Here are all my maternal matches:

Note that Robert’s purple match on Chromosome 1 is obscured by the green matches. Expanding Chromosome 1 shows the details.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Robert descends from Sarah Nicholson who was the older sister of my great grandmother Annie Nicholson, making us third cousins
  • I was able to paint Robert’s DNA onto my Chromosome map. This DNA represents the DNA Robert and I share from either William Nicholson or Martha Ellis. This couple was born in Sheffield, England and moved to Pennsylvania.
  • Robert’s DNA added to my Nicholson/Ellis DNA as well as adding to my mother’s DNA profile and my siblings’ chromosome maps.
  • In one case, due to a matching overlap, I was able to tell that a closer Lentz/Nicholson match was actually on the Nicholson side.
  • When we match an ancestral couple, the DNA is actually from one or the other of the couple, but we usually don’t know which. For the example of the match with cousin Judy, Robert identified that the DNA was from Annie Nicholson and not her Lentz husband.

 

 

Comparing My Family’s Common Ancestor Results at AncestryDNA: Part 1

Recently, I was looking at my sister Heidi’s Common Ancestor results at AncestryDNA and noticed that she had a lot of new ones that I wasn’t aware of. In order to find these, I go to DNA matches, then I filter for common ancestors. Because I like to count things, I’ll put the results in a table. It will be interesting to compare the results for me and my 4 siblings who have tested at AncestryDNA. Here is a chart starting with me:

Also The numbers are good, but it is the actual common ancestors that are interesting. I guess I should add the mother’s side also. Ironically, my mother isn’t listed as being on my mother’s side, but my siblings are. That’s OK. Also, I don’t know if the mother’s side works for distant cousins:

Here is the filled out chart:

The comparison is interesting:

  • I have the fewest DNA matches with common ancestors.
  • My sister Lori has the most DNA matches with common ancestors
  • Maternal side matches are not given for Distant Cousins
  • My mother’s 4th cousin matches and Distant Cousin Matches are important ones. Many of these would not be covered by my and my siblings’ matches.

Looking At My Mother’s Common Ancestors

First, I went through my mother’s 4th cousin and Distant Relative Common Ancestor matches and put a colored dot with the ancestor to designate the branch. I have had trouble identifying Lentz ancestors previously, but now I notice quite a few, so I would like to take a look at those matches.

Shoring Up the Lentz Common Ancestors

Here is the Lentz DNA matching chart I have so far:

The left part of the chart has Nicholson matches and there are a lot of them, so I would like to augment the right-hand side of the chart. Green means that the DNA match is listed in a place where I can tell where on the chromosome the match is. This is usually at Gedmatch.com. My mom’s top non-Nicholson match is Radelle. She linked her DNA results at Ancestry to her mother, so that is a little confusing. What that means is that Radelle is actually a 4th cousin to my mom instead of the 3rd cousin once removed that AncestryDNA shows. Radelle and my mom have one shared DNA match, so I sent a message to that match. The match had no Ancestry Tree.

My mom’s next match is with Deborah. She is also on the chart, though she has a lower DNA match. Deborah is on a branch with more connections. However, I didn’t see that Deborah and my Mom have any shared DNA matches.

Now that I have a purple dot for Lentz, I am able to filter by that dot:

Radelle and Deborah were the first two matches with Lentz common ancestors out of eight.

The next match is another Deborah and appears to be the mother of the previous Deborah. She also has no shared matches with my Mom.

Back to George Adam Lentz Born 1770

I’ll need to add an extra level on my chart for the next match. Here is what AncestryDNA shows for the connection:

Of course Ancestry wants me to evaluate the connection. I notice that TL’s tree goes up to a Lantz instead of a Lentz, so that is a little suspicious. The other suspicious part is that by this tree, George would have been 13 years old when Sarah was born. I’ll leave TL off my chart for now. From another tree at Ancestry, here are Sarah’s parents:

There is a probably a connection somewhere, but it doesn’t appear to be here.

John to John

This tree seems more reasonable as it goes up to Eliza Lentz. I’ll be a bit lazy and I won’t evaluate this tree. It is consistent with my chart with the Glenn surname. Here is John added in:

So if this is right, John is Radelle’s second cousin twice removed. It’s nice to have some company on the Eliza Lentz line.

Betty on the William Lentz Line

Betty appears to be related to the two Deborahs:

Another Bogus George Adam Lentz Connection

I had hope for these connections, but they didn’t pan out:

Mary Lantz was born when my ancestor George was 7 years old.

The last person on my list is Al who is already on my Lentz DNA match tree. So of the eight people I identified, 4 were already on the Tree. Two didn’t match by the AncestryDNA suggested genealogy and two were added.

My Mom’s Baker and Faunce Lines

Here is my chart so far:

In a sense my siblings and I are not as important as my mom should have more DNA than we do for these matches. Here is my mom’s top DNA match on that line:

The Baker family was large, so that means many descendants with DNA matches.

Adding Peter and Justin to the Baker DNA Tree

Now I’m up to four Baker Lines. Justin adds another generation going down.

FL On the Catherine Baker Slater Line

I just looked up Annette. She was a match on MyHeritage. FL at AncestryDNA is on that Line also.

This is beginning to look like a real surname DNA project now.

An Older Faunce Match with Lauren

Now I need to figure out how to get Lauren onto this tree. Actually, I need to build a new Faunce Tree:

I just didn’t add all the others under Catherine Faunce from above. Hopefully, I’ll find more matches here also.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I started by comparing my siblings’ common ancestor DNA matches with mine and my mother’s common ancestor DNA matches.
  • This comparison showed that I should look at my siblings’ results.
  • I then saw that my mother must have more common ancestor matches to look at.
  • I looked at two different Philadelphia lines and matches that my mom had showing common ancestors.
  • The two matches my mom had with common ancestors going back to George Adam Lentz didn’t pan out. I would still like to find some matches there – though this is going back to about as far as a DNA match would be expected.

Finding My Latvian Cousin Raimonds at 23andMe

Occasionally, I check 23andMe to see if I have any matches. The last time I checked I was happy to find Raimonds. Raimonds lists his location as Riga, Latvia. That got my attention as my mother’s father was from Riga.

How Raimonds and I Match By DNA

Here is how we match by DNA:

Under 23andMe’s advanced DNA comparisons, I see this:

Another thing that jumped out at me was the X Chromosome match that Raimonds and I have. This seemed significant. Here are the places on my tree that Raimonds and I could have an X Chromosome match:

This is the tree of my grandfather who was Alexander Rathfelder. As both Raimonds and Alexander were from Riga, it makes sense to start with Alexander’s tree. X DNA is not passed down from father to son, so that rules out the Rathfelder line. As we go back it eliminates the Gangnus and Lutke Lines. However, with intermarriage, these could possibly be added in later back in time.

Raimonds’ Genealogy

I wrote to Raimonds at 23andMe and he was nice enough to write back. Here is what Raimonds told me:

I do see a Carl Heinrich Lutke in my tree. However, based on the X Chromosome inheritance, I don’t think that our DNA match reflects that ancestor. In addition, Raimonds’ maternal Lutke grandfather would have not gotten any X Chromosome from his father. That means that the X Chromosome match could as easily be on Raimonds’ maternal grandmother’s side.

So How Am I Related to Raimonds?

The answer appears to be at the Raduraksti Web Page that has a lot of the Latvian Church records. I think that the records are listed under the Linden Church at that web page. Here is the Linden Church:

Here are two links that are in the right time period:

Unfortunately, I don’ t know what the L (l, v) means. Also the more recent records are in Russian. I also checked the Linden Church in 1890 for Lutke. Here is one entry:

However, this is not Johann.

I then went back a year to 1899:

This appears to be the birth and baptismal dates for Johannes Ernst Lutke. He was the son of Johann Marcus Lutke and Wilhemine Catharine Schwechheimer. I left out the sponsors names from the next page:

Here is a Lutke marriage from 1910:

It seems like this Johann is different than the one above. I read Johann Jacob Lutke married to Emma Maria Apollonia Gempfer.

Here is an 1891 birth to Johann Marcus Lutke:

That is what I found looking through 1889 – 1891 births and baptisms.

Things Are Moving Fast

I got another message from Raimonds:

That means that I can draw a Lutke DNA tree. Here is what I have so far:

I just need to add Raimonds. He has told me who his grandfather’s grandparents were, but who were his grandfather’s parents? Based on what Raimonds says, we should be third cousins once removed.

MyHeritage has an Instant Discovery for me:

Ironically, the hint they want me to use has a photo that I have on my Gangnus web page:

I think MyHeritage wants me to pay them money before I can use their “discovery”.

I did find a tree on Ancestry with a Johann Otto Lutke:

He was born 1879. Raimonds thinks his Johann was born around 1885.

Painting in Raimonds’ DNA Match

I use a utility called DNA Painter to track my identified DNA. I don’t have all the documentation, but Raimonds says that our common ancestors are Lutke and Fuhrmann. Here is part of what I have so far on my maternal side:

This shows that I am 34% painted maternally. Overall (paternally and maternally combined), I am 43% painted. In the key above, I have a color for Lutke/Fuhrmann already, but also one where I wasn’t sure, because I was related to the person both ways. For some reason, Patrick is in the second category and his mother is in the first. I’m not sure if this is a mistake or not on my part. I don’t know enough about Raimonds’ genealogy to know which category he will be in. For now, I’ll put him in the first category also.

Here are the segments that Raimonds has added. These matches don’t currently overlap with existing DNA matches, so Raimonds is in uncharted territory. I didn’t add Raimonds’ X Chromosome match as that is unlikely to be on the Lutke side. It looks like I need to change some colors due to the similarity of the blues of Schwechheimer and Lutke. Once I find out how Raimonds and I are related on our X Chromosome, I will paint that in also.

Here I made the color change and moved Silvia to the more ambiguous Common Ancestor Group:

Overall, this upped my overall painted percentage to 44%:

An Update from Raimonds’ Granddaughter

Raimonds’ granddaughter sent me a family tree showing how our Lutke Lines connect. This information was from someone that Raimonds had gotten in touch with through MyHeritage. This person apparently has done a lot of work with Hirschenhof genealogies. Here are Raimonds’ maternal grandparents:

All I have to do is find Johann Peter Woldemar’s birth in 1881. Fortunately for me, he is on the first page of the Linden Church Register:

Actually this may be the 5th page of the Register for the year. I didn’t see pages 2-4. There is a lot of information here. For some reason the last name is given as Lütken. Before the father’s name is the occupation. But I’m not sure what it is.

Going Back a Generation

This connects with the tree I have for Silvia and Patrick.

I re-typed the Lutke DNA tree:

So it turns out that Raimonds is more closely related to Silvia and Patrick than me. Silvia and Patrick tested at MyHeritage. That also means that some of what I wrote in my Blog about Patrick applies to Raimonds. This also means that I am doubly related to Raimonds like I am to Patrick.

Raimonds and the Gangnus Connection

I don’t want to re-type this tree, but here are two more ways I am related to Raimonds:

The first way is through Johann Jacob Gangnus and Biedermann. This is important because it is at the same level as my Lutke/Fuhrmann match with Raimonds. The second way we are connected is two generations further back, so that connection is not as important as far as the DNA matching goes.

Back to the X Chromosome

Now that I see how we are related on the Gangnus side, I can see how the X Chromosome match between Raimonds and me may have happened:

It actually worked out quite well. Note that between me and Biedermann above, I go male, female, male, female, male female. That is the way I would get the most X Chromosome DNA from the furthest back. Normally autosomal DNA will recombine. However, when a father gives his X Chromosome to his daughter, he only has one Chromosome to begin with. So when Johann Philip Gangnus gave his one X Chromosome to his daughter Maria Elisabeth Laura Gangnus, it was the same one that his Biedermann mother gave him. Also, it is important that I descend from the male Johann Philip Gangnus. Because of that we know that the X Chromosome that he got could only be from his Biedermann mother. That means that the X Chromosome that Raimonds and I share is likely from the Biedermann side. I say likely, because there is a small possibility that it may come from an ancestor of Antonie Elise Marie Schiller. I haven’t looked into that line and Raimonds doesn’t know about that side.

Fixing DNA Painter

Here is some more information on Biedermann:

I took out the entry for Lutke/Fuhrmann at DNA Painter. Now I just have Lutke/Fuhrmann or Gangnus/Biedermann. Now I will need an entry for Anna to paint the X Chromosome match that Raimonds and I have.

Unfortunately, I have pink on pink for Biedermann, but I have painted Biedermann onto the X Chromosome. Notice that this segment overlaps with my maternal first cousin Rusty. That means that this part of Rusty’s X Chromosome must also be from Anna Biedermann. Here is a better color:

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was happy about finding this DNA match with Raimonds
  • It is rare that a X Chromosome match works out so well. So many things have to align correctly in both my ancestry and Raimonds.
  • It is also rare that I am able to figure out who our common ancestors are so quickly – especially with Latvian genealogy. This was due to information I already had plus genealogies that Raimonds was able to get through MyHeritage.
  • I am glad to see that a lot of the Linden Church records are back on-line. These are the records for Hirschenhof residents.
  • If Raimonds uploads his DNA results to Gedmatch.com and MyHeritage, he will find more DNA matches.

 

My Mom’s Lentz Family and Roberta Estes’ Lentz Family

Roberta Estes has blogged about her Lentz family. I have also blogged about my Lentz family. Roberta and I have checked to see if there was an autosomal DNA match between our two families, but we were unable to find any significant match. Recently, in checking my 23andMe results, it seems like there may be a way to see if we are related by YDNA.

My Mom’s Lentz Family YDNA

I have tested my DNA at 23andMe and have a few Lentz matches there. One good thing about 23andMe is that when you take an autosomal test, they also give you a rough estimate of your YDNA haplogroup. I have has two Lentz matches at 23andMe who are brothers. They both have this Haplogroup:

I’ve sent off messages to the two brothers. I don’t know exactly how we are related, but based on the size of the autosomal DNA match and where they live, my guess is that our common ancestors must be Jacob George Lentz and Annie Nicholson:

I don’t have record of William Lentz born 1892 as having any sons. William did have a brother named Stanley who had sons, so that may be where the two matches fit in. At any rate, their YDNA would go up through the Lentz side.

What is R-Y4355?

I would expect that 23andMe has an accurate haplogroup though not recent. Here is what YFull has on Y4355:

Above the tree, YFull gives the YDNA Line for this branch of Lentz back to Genetic Adam (listed as Home). This shows that Y4355 is about 4200 years old, so fairly old. I recognize R-U152 in that line as a major branch.

Roberta Estes’ Lentz YDNA

Here is what Roberta has in one of her Blogs:

Roberta has invested in the Big Y test for her Lentz relatives, so this is likely to be extremely accurate and fairly recent. YFull does not have BY39280, but has some information on KMS75:

Actually KMS75 is listed as +1SNPs above. The equivalent at YFull is Y20993 which was formed 4800 years ago. So this particular SNP is not that recent. BY39280 would be more recent but perhaps not by much.

The Short Answer

I would say that based on the 23andMe Haplogroup and the work that Roberta has done, these two families are not related. The common ancestor is R-L23 which was formed 6400 years before present. I’ll draw a tree for the two Lentz families:

I would have thought that Roberta’s Lentz Line would be longer, but it must be an older branch or a branch with less branching in it. So from the top of the tree to the bottom is about 2,000 years, but we still have about 4,000 years to get to the useful genealogical time.

Here is an R1b Tree:

I have an arrow pointing to where my Mom’s Lentz family and Roberta’s Lentz family split. The split goes to Western Altantic for my Mom’s Lentz family and Eastern for Roberta’s Lentz family. Interesting. U152 is a major branch. U152 begins below the ‘ic’ of Atlantic. Checking the YDNA was pretty easy. That concludes the YDNA part of the Blog. Next I’ll add my Lentz autosomal DNA to DNAPainter

Adding Lentz DNA to DNAPainter

I can add the autosomal DNA to DNA Painter for the two Lentz matches I have at 23andMe. Here is one match added to my Lentz/Nicholson common ancestors:

Jereme adds important DNA that I didn’t know about before. I didn’t have any DNA from these two common ancestors previously on Chromosomes 2, 3, 4 and 15. I have less of a match with Jereme’s brother Will:

I’ll paint in Will also even though he doesn’t add new information. Jereme matches me by 95 cM compared to Will’s 72 cM.

Jereme and Will upped my percentage of maternal mapped DNA from 30 to 32%. That is a significant jump at this stage of mapping:

Here is the maternal and paternal side:

I changed Lentz/Nicholson to a sort of pea green because it was the same blue as Clarke on my paternal side. I now have 41% DNA painted overall. I assume that this went up although I didn’t check to see what it was previously.

Summary and Conclusions

  • 23andMe has a useful feature that predicts your YDNA Haplogroup at no extra charge.
  • This feature can be used to see if you are related to male relatives of the same surname. In this case, I was related to two Lentz brothers with a predicted haplogroup. Roberta Estes had Lentz relatives tested for YDNA resulting in a known Haplogroup. I checked on Roberta’s Lentz relative’s YDNA haplogroup and it didn’t match up with my Lentz relative’s Haplogroup. I then found the common Haplogroup for the two Lentz families. The common haplogroup was over 6,000 years old.
  • It would be interesting to see if this could be used in other situations.
  • This Blog was short so I painted the autosomal DNA of my Lentz relatives using DNA Painter.