My Nicholson Ancestors in Liverpool

I was recently looking up information on my mother’s grandmother Annie Nicholson and found a baptismal record for her and her sister Agnes from Liverpool. In that record, her father was listed as a saw maker. This was too much of a coincidence not to be true.

Nicholson Genealogy

Here is what I have at my Nicholson Web Page:

Ann is child 3 and Agnes is child for. This information is now probably wrong as I have them both being born in Sheffield. I had just assumed that they were born there as the Nicholson family history went back quite a ways in Sheffield. My assumption was that they emmigrated from Sheffield to Philiadelphia.

From Sheffield to Liverpool

The time that the Nicholson family was in Liverpool was not caught on the Census as the family was in Sheffield in 1861:

 

Parkwood Springs was part of Brightside:

It looks like Brightside is actually to the West of where I circled. At this time, William and Martha had a daughter who was 9 months old.

Not too long after the 1861 Census which was taken on April 7, the family moved to Liverpool. Sarah Ann was baptized there on January 19, 1862. I can’t make out William Nicholson’s profession other than he was a saw maker:

[Based on my research below, this says Fontenoy Street where the family lived in Liverpool before they moved to Bootle. ] This record is taken from the Bishop’s Transcript. That means that it was copied from another record. Sarah Ann’s sister Emma was baptized on the same day:

Here is a drawing of the downtown Liverpool St Peter’s Church from 1800:

 

My assumption is that Sarah Ann was born in Sheffield and Emma was born in Liverpool.

Ann Eliza and Agnes D

Ann Eliza was my great grandmother. Here is her baptismal record from St. Peter from 1865:

Ann Eliza was born in March and baptized in August. Also of interest is that the family lived in “Bootle”. Or Booth. But it looks like Bootle to me. Maybe the Beatles lived there. Bootle. Beatle. Here is Bootle to the North of Liverpool:

Bootle appears to be a little less than a mile from downtown Liverpool. My guess is that Ann Eliza and Agnes were born in Bootle.

Here is the baptismal record for Agnes:

This took place also at St. Peter’s Church in Liverpool on March 9, 1869.

From Bootle to Philadelphia

There was a tight time-frame for the family getting from Sheffield to Bootle. Now there was another tight time-frame for the Nicholson family moving to Philiadelphia. Here is the ship record for Martha and her children when they arrived in New York City:

William was likely already in Philadelphia at this time. Also it is interesting that Ann went by Eliza at this time. This record tells a story. Martha here traveling without her husband and her four girls from Liverpool to Queensland to New York City. From there they must have gone to Ellis Island and then made their way to Philadelphia where William must have prepared a place for them. My guess is that William missed the US Census that was held on June 1, 1870. However, according to the 1900 Census, William immigrated in 1868:

Let’s see what the 1910 Census says:

This shows he immigrated in 1870, and that he is naturalized. His wife also has an immigration date which doesn’t make sense as she is shown as being born in Pennsylvania.

Some More Parish Records from St Peter’s in Liverpool

My research friend in England reminded me that the Lancashire Online Parish Registers covers LIverpool. So I took a look there. Here is a confusing entry:

This looks like William and Martha were living in Liverpool in 1860 when Maria Baxter Nicholson was baptized. Here is a photo from 1901 of Fontenoy Street:

Here is an 1860 map showing Fontenoy Street:

Here is a modern map including the Beatles Statue:

However, the 1861 Census shows that my ancestors were living in Sheffield. William and Martha were married in 1856, so that would have given them time to have a daughter born in 1858. I can’t think that there were too many saw makers named William Nicholson who were married to a Martha who baptized their children in the same Church (St Peter, Liverpool).

Here is Maria in the 1861 Census in Liverpool The Baxters and others were living at 25 Fontenoy Street:

I might as well get more confused. Here Maria is a boarder or lodger at the house of William Baxter who is also a saw maker. Living in the house was Ann Ellis widow aged 66. So did William move back to Sheffield and say, “William take care of my daughter who I named after you”? And who is Ann Ellis? Martha’s mother was Nancy Roebuck born in 1795, so this could be the same person. That means that Ann Baxter must be Ann Ellis born about 1822:

This could also explain the Sheffield/Liverpool connection.

I see I left an important detail from the Baxter 1861 Census. That is where everyone was born:

Everyone in that Census was born in Sheffield except for Ann Ellis who was born in Thorne.  I have that my ancestor Nancy Ellis was born in Thorne, so this makes sense. That is what I like about the Census. It shows a lot of family relationships and gives a lot of information in a little space.

William Baxter and Ann Ellis

I feel I have enough information to go on to make a case that William Baxter’s wife Ann was actually Ann Ellis. Here is the family in 1851 in Nether Hallam to the West of Sheffield:

William was listed as a saw smith.

More On Ann Roebuck Ellis

Here is Ann in 1871 back in Sheffield:

Ann is listed as a lodger with Elizabeth Roebuck. As Elizabeth is listed as widowed, she could be a sister-in-law. Elizabeth is listed as born in Sheffield and Ann in Thorne.

What I Have Learned So Far

Perhaps a chronology would help

  • April 1858 Maria Baxter born to William Nicholson and Martha Ellis in Sheffield
  • June 1860 Sarah Ann born to William Nicholson and Martha Ellis in Sheffield
  • August 1860 Maria Baxter Nicholson Baptized, Liverpool
  • 1861 Census William, Martha and Sarah Ann living in Sheffield
  • 1861 Maria Baxter Nicholson living with Uncle William Baxter, Aunt Ann Ellis Baxter and grandmother Ann (Nancy) Roebuck Ellis
  • So it is not clear whether William and Martha Nicholson were present at the baptism of their daughter Maria Baxter. I had assumed that they were.
  • Dec 1861 – Emma Nicholson born, probably in Liverpool.
  • Jan 19, 1862 – Emma Nicholson baptized at St Peter’s in Liverpool.
  • Jan 19, 1862 – Sarah Ann Nicholson baptized at St Peter’s  in Liverpool. Emma’s and Sarah’s address is given as Fontenoy Street, Liverpool.
  • March 1865 – Birth of Ann Eliza Nicholson presumed in Boote, Lancashire.
  • August 1865 – Baptism of Ann Eliza at St Peter’s, Liverpool
  • Feb 1869 – Birth of Agnes D Nicholson in Bootle
  • March 1869 – Baptism of Agnes D at St. Peter’s, Liverpool
  • Nov 1870 – Martha Nicholson travels from Liverpool to New York City with her four daughters: Sarah Ann, Emma, Eliza and Agnes. The girls are between the ages of  and 11.
  • 1871 – Martha’s mother Ann Roebuck Ellis now 76 years old is living with Elizabeth Roebuck in North Sheffield.

That seems to summarize about 13 eventful years for the Nicholson family.

A Few Loose Ends

I haven’t found William Nicholson’s shipping record or naturalization records. This may be Maria’s death record from 1866:

Though the family should have been in Bootle by then.

I found out some things about Ann Ellis. I could fill more blanks in with her or her siblings. Here are her siblings:

Summary and Conclusions

  • While I was filling in my brother’s maternal side ancestry for DNA testing, I came upon a few interesting records that indicated my Nicholson ancestors may have lived in Liverpool before moving from Sheffield to Philadelphia
  • I checked the records and they did live there. In fact, my great grandmother Ann Eliza and four of her sisters were baptized in Liverpool.
  • I also found my third great grandmother living in Liverpool with William and Ann Baxter in 1861. This Ann was probably Ann Ellis, Martha Ellis Nicholson’s older sister. For some reason Willliam and Martha Nicholson’s youngest daughter was living in the Baxter house also in 1861 while William and Martha were in Sheffield with their infant second daughter.
  • I left with some follow up work to fill in some of the blanks.
  • I didn’ know last week that I had something in common with the Beatles. Now I know that I do.

 

 

A New Nicholson DNA Match with Robert at MyHeritage

MyHeritage occasionally sends me updates on my new DNA matches. Robert was one that stood out recently. Here is how my DNA match looks like with Robert:

Robert and I match on the above 5 chromosomes.

Robert’s Genealogy

Because of past experience, I know that I will match Robert on his maternal side. I believe that Martha Pote is a daughter of a Nicholson. Here is the relative spot where Robert fits in on my DNA matching/Nicholson Genealogy Tree:

I say relative place,  because I don’t know for sure whether Robert is Sadie’s father or uncle. If they had both tested at MyHeritage, I would be able to tell. Actually, I may be able to tell, because I have Sadie’s DNA painted. Either way, Robert is my third cousin and we share Nicholson and Ellis DNA – specifically from William Nicholson and Martha Ellis.

DNA Painter

Here is Sadie at DNA Painter. This is how she matches me:

If Sadie only had DNA matches that contain Roberts, she is most likely his daughter. If she has DNA matches that are different than Robert, then Robert is likely not her father. This is based on the fact that Sadie got all the DNA that matches me from her father. When I check DNA Painter, Sadie’s DNA is contained in Robert’s DNA matches, so it is likely her father. Plus I see Sadie’s email listed for Robert at Gedmatch, where his results also show up.

I have quite a few Nicholson matches already, but Robert adds some new DNA (see circled below):

The new areas of Nicholson/Ellis matches are on Chromosomes 1 and 5.

Here are some other matches on my maternal side Chromosome 1:

I have left out the names for privacy, but Robert is the purple match. He is right over Judith who is a closer match under Lentz/Nicholson. This tells me that my match with Judith is on her Nicholson side and not on her Lentz side.

Here are all my maternal matches:

Note that Robert’s purple match on Chromosome 1 is obscured by the green matches. Expanding Chromosome 1 shows the details.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Robert descends from Sarah Nicholson who was the older sister of my great grandmother Annie Nicholson, making us third cousins
  • I was able to paint Robert’s DNA onto my Chromosome map. This DNA represents the DNA Robert and I share from either William Nicholson or Martha Ellis. This couple was born in Sheffield, England and moved to Pennsylvania.
  • Robert’s DNA added to my Nicholson/Ellis DNA as well as adding to my mother’s DNA profile and my siblings’ chromosome maps.
  • In one case, due to a matching overlap, I was able to tell that a closer Lentz/Nicholson match was actually on the Nicholson side.
  • When we match an ancestral couple, the DNA is actually from one or the other of the couple, but we usually don’t know which. For the example of the match with cousin Judy, Robert identified that the DNA was from Annie Nicholson and not her Lentz husband.

 

 

Comparing My Family’s Common Ancestor Results at AncestryDNA: Part 1

Recently, I was looking at my sister Heidi’s Common Ancestor results at AncestryDNA and noticed that she had a lot of new ones that I wasn’t aware of. In order to find these, I go to DNA matches, then I filter for common ancestors. Because I like to count things, I’ll put the results in a table. It will be interesting to compare the results for me and my 4 siblings who have tested at AncestryDNA. Here is a chart starting with me:

Also The numbers are good, but it is the actual common ancestors that are interesting. I guess I should add the mother’s side also. Ironically, my mother isn’t listed as being on my mother’s side, but my siblings are. That’s OK. Also, I don’t know if the mother’s side works for distant cousins:

Here is the filled out chart:

The comparison is interesting:

  • I have the fewest DNA matches with common ancestors.
  • My sister Lori has the most DNA matches with common ancestors
  • Maternal side matches are not given for Distant Cousins
  • My mother’s 4th cousin matches and Distant Cousin Matches are important ones. Many of these would not be covered by my and my siblings’ matches.

Looking At My Mother’s Common Ancestors

First, I went through my mother’s 4th cousin and Distant Relative Common Ancestor matches and put a colored dot with the ancestor to designate the branch. I have had trouble identifying Lentz ancestors previously, but now I notice quite a few, so I would like to take a look at those matches.

Shoring Up the Lentz Common Ancestors

Here is the Lentz DNA matching chart I have so far:

The left part of the chart has Nicholson matches and there are a lot of them, so I would like to augment the right-hand side of the chart. Green means that the DNA match is listed in a place where I can tell where on the chromosome the match is. This is usually at Gedmatch.com. My mom’s top non-Nicholson match is Radelle. She linked her DNA results at Ancestry to her mother, so that is a little confusing. What that means is that Radelle is actually a 4th cousin to my mom instead of the 3rd cousin once removed that AncestryDNA shows. Radelle and my mom have one shared DNA match, so I sent a message to that match. The match had no Ancestry Tree.

My mom’s next match is with Deborah. She is also on the chart, though she has a lower DNA match. Deborah is on a branch with more connections. However, I didn’t see that Deborah and my Mom have any shared DNA matches.

Now that I have a purple dot for Lentz, I am able to filter by that dot:

Radelle and Deborah were the first two matches with Lentz common ancestors out of eight.

The next match is another Deborah and appears to be the mother of the previous Deborah. She also has no shared matches with my Mom.

Back to George Adam Lentz Born 1770

I’ll need to add an extra level on my chart for the next match. Here is what AncestryDNA shows for the connection:

Of course Ancestry wants me to evaluate the connection. I notice that TL’s tree goes up to a Lantz instead of a Lentz, so that is a little suspicious. The other suspicious part is that by this tree, George would have been 13 years old when Sarah was born. I’ll leave TL off my chart for now. From another tree at Ancestry, here are Sarah’s parents:

There is a probably a connection somewhere, but it doesn’t appear to be here.

John to John

This tree seems more reasonable as it goes up to Eliza Lentz. I’ll be a bit lazy and I won’t evaluate this tree. It is consistent with my chart with the Glenn surname. Here is John added in:

So if this is right, John is Radelle’s second cousin twice removed. It’s nice to have some company on the Eliza Lentz line.

Betty on the William Lentz Line

Betty appears to be related to the two Deborahs:

Another Bogus George Adam Lentz Connection

I had hope for these connections, but they didn’t pan out:

Mary Lantz was born when my ancestor George was 7 years old.

The last person on my list is Al who is already on my Lentz DNA match tree. So of the eight people I identified, 4 were already on the Tree. Two didn’t match by the AncestryDNA suggested genealogy and two were added.

My Mom’s Baker and Faunce Lines

Here is my chart so far:

In a sense my siblings and I are not as important as my mom should have more DNA than we do for these matches. Here is my mom’s top DNA match on that line:

The Baker family was large, so that means many descendants with DNA matches.

Adding Peter and Justin to the Baker DNA Tree

Now I’m up to four Baker Lines. Justin adds another generation going down.

FL On the Catherine Baker Slater Line

I just looked up Annette. She was a match on MyHeritage. FL at AncestryDNA is on that Line also.

This is beginning to look like a real surname DNA project now.

An Older Faunce Match with Lauren

Now I need to figure out how to get Lauren onto this tree. Actually, I need to build a new Faunce Tree:

I just didn’t add all the others under Catherine Faunce from above. Hopefully, I’ll find more matches here also.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I started by comparing my siblings’ common ancestor DNA matches with mine and my mother’s common ancestor DNA matches.
  • This comparison showed that I should look at my siblings’ results.
  • I then saw that my mother must have more common ancestor matches to look at.
  • I looked at two different Philadelphia lines and matches that my mom had showing common ancestors.
  • The two matches my mom had with common ancestors going back to George Adam Lentz didn’t pan out. I would still like to find some matches there – though this is going back to about as far as a DNA match would be expected.

My Mom’s Lentz Family and Roberta Estes’ Lentz Family

Roberta Estes has blogged about her Lentz family. I have also blogged about my Lentz family. Roberta and I have checked to see if there was an autosomal DNA match between our two families, but we were unable to find any significant match. Recently, in checking my 23andMe results, it seems like there may be a way to see if we are related by YDNA.

My Mom’s Lentz Family YDNA

I have tested my DNA at 23andMe and have a few Lentz matches there. One good thing about 23andMe is that when you take an autosomal test, they also give you a rough estimate of your YDNA haplogroup. I have has two Lentz matches at 23andMe who are brothers. They both have this Haplogroup:

I’ve sent off messages to the two brothers. I don’t know exactly how we are related, but based on the size of the autosomal DNA match and where they live, my guess is that our common ancestors must be Jacob George Lentz and Annie Nicholson:

I don’t have record of William Lentz born 1892 as having any sons. William did have a brother named Stanley who had sons, so that may be where the two matches fit in. At any rate, their YDNA would go up through the Lentz side.

What is R-Y4355?

I would expect that 23andMe has an accurate haplogroup though not recent. Here is what YFull has on Y4355:

Above the tree, YFull gives the YDNA Line for this branch of Lentz back to Genetic Adam (listed as Home). This shows that Y4355 is about 4200 years old, so fairly old. I recognize R-U152 in that line as a major branch.

Roberta Estes’ Lentz YDNA

Here is what Roberta has in one of her Blogs:

Roberta has invested in the Big Y test for her Lentz relatives, so this is likely to be extremely accurate and fairly recent. YFull does not have BY39280, but has some information on KMS75:

Actually KMS75 is listed as +1SNPs above. The equivalent at YFull is Y20993 which was formed 4800 years ago. So this particular SNP is not that recent. BY39280 would be more recent but perhaps not by much.

The Short Answer

I would say that based on the 23andMe Haplogroup and the work that Roberta has done, these two families are not related. The common ancestor is R-L23 which was formed 6400 years before present. I’ll draw a tree for the two Lentz families:

I would have thought that Roberta’s Lentz Line would be longer, but it must be an older branch or a branch with less branching in it. So from the top of the tree to the bottom is about 2,000 years, but we still have about 4,000 years to get to the useful genealogical time.

Here is an R1b Tree:

I have an arrow pointing to where my Mom’s Lentz family and Roberta’s Lentz family split. The split goes to Western Altantic for my Mom’s Lentz family and Eastern for Roberta’s Lentz family. Interesting. U152 is a major branch. U152 begins below the ‘ic’ of Atlantic. Checking the YDNA was pretty easy. That concludes the YDNA part of the Blog. Next I’ll add my Lentz autosomal DNA to DNAPainter

Adding Lentz DNA to DNAPainter

I can add the autosomal DNA to DNA Painter for the two Lentz matches I have at 23andMe. Here is one match added to my Lentz/Nicholson common ancestors:

Jereme adds important DNA that I didn’t know about before. I didn’t have any DNA from these two common ancestors previously on Chromosomes 2, 3, 4 and 15. I have less of a match with Jereme’s brother Will:

I’ll paint in Will also even though he doesn’t add new information. Jereme matches me by 95 cM compared to Will’s 72 cM.

Jereme and Will upped my percentage of maternal mapped DNA from 30 to 32%. That is a significant jump at this stage of mapping:

Here is the maternal and paternal side:

I changed Lentz/Nicholson to a sort of pea green because it was the same blue as Clarke on my paternal side. I now have 41% DNA painted overall. I assume that this went up although I didn’t check to see what it was previously.

Summary and Conclusions

  • 23andMe has a useful feature that predicts your YDNA Haplogroup at no extra charge.
  • This feature can be used to see if you are related to male relatives of the same surname. In this case, I was related to two Lentz brothers with a predicted haplogroup. Roberta Estes had Lentz relatives tested for YDNA resulting in a known Haplogroup. I checked on Roberta’s Lentz relative’s YDNA haplogroup and it didn’t match up with my Lentz relative’s Haplogroup. I then found the common Haplogroup for the two Lentz families. The common haplogroup was over 6,000 years old.
  • It would be interesting to see if this could be used in other situations.
  • This Blog was short so I painted the autosomal DNA of my Lentz relatives using DNA Painter.

 

 

 

Sorting My Mom’s DNA with AutoCluster

I already sorted my mom’s DNA with AutoCluster last week. However, since that time, Genetic Affairs has changed the look of their AutoCluster Chart. They now cluster the clusters which makes it easier to tell which ancestral groups go with which

My Mom’s Ancestry

Mom, Gladys’, father is German but his German ancestors lived for quite a while in a German colony in Latvia. His parents were Rathfelder and Gangnus. My mom’s maternal grandfather Lentz was also German but his ancestors had been in Philadelphia since the American Revolution. Gladys’ maternal grandmother was Nicholson. Her family moved to Philadelphia from Sheffield, England.

The First AutoCluster

My first AncestryDNA AutoCluster for my mom looked like this:

  • Thresholds: 20-600 cM
  • Matches: 323
  • Matches not used in clusters: 29
  • Clusters: 48

I started writing a Blog on the results, but didn’t finish. Here is a spreadsheet for the above chart:

These clusters were sorted by the size of the cluster and I didn’t identify the first three clusters.

Mom’s New AutoCluster Results

I expect the new results to be more organized and show where the groups of matches belong compared to the other groups of matches:

  • Thresholds: 20-600 cM
  • Matches: 330
  • Matches not used in clusters: 28
  • Clusters: 49

I used the same thresholds in the new AutoCluster run. The results were similar but now the clusters are organized. Here is the new spreadsheet:

 

I note that Elise and Rowena are in twice. I don’t know if that messes up the results. I didn’t show all the clusters as they go off the page.

Elise shows as being in Clusters 5 and 6 which doesn’t make sense. She doesn’t show in Cluster 5 but shows as a dark gray row to the left and above Cluster 6. Rowena shows as being in her own Cluster 15 which I don’t show above.

Unraveling the Mystery of Mom’s DNA

The unraveling the mystery of mom’s DNA involves trying to figure out which parts of her DNA go with which common ancestors. The common ancestors are the common ancestors of her common matches. Her common matches are grouped together and those groups are grouped together, so let’s get started.

Here are mom’s four grandparent lines:

These shown are the first and 2nd great-grandparent levels. By location, the top two grandparent are Latvia and the bottom two grandparent lines are Philadelphia and Sheffield, England.

Cluster 1: Nicholson/Ellis

Cluster 1 is easy. It is headed up by mom’s 2nd cousin Carolyn on the Nicholson/Ellis Line:

Cluster 38 – Rathfelder

Next, I’ll go all the way down to Cluster 38. I believe that this is a Rathfelder Cluster:

I may only have one Rathfelder Cluster with the two sisters, Astrid and Ingrid.

Mom’s Maternal and Paternal Clusters

The above two Clusters may have set the edge for Mom’s Clusters, but I’ll check in more detail later. Here is my assumption so far:

Again, this is a guess based on two clusters. I will need to check this out. I also will want to try to identify Lentz and Gangnus matches, if possible.

Finding Lentz

Lentz matches have been difficult to find. Here is the Lentz tree with some of the descendant who have had their DNA tested:

The left branch has the closer matches, but they are also half Nicholson. Here is Radelle’s mom at Ancestry:

This is a little confusing because Radelle took the test and her mom, Delores shows in the tree. I became suspicious when I saw that Delores died in 2011. Radelle is in Cluster 32:

 

I now have three of my mom’s grandparents. However, does that mean that Nicholson has 31 Clusters?

More Nicholson

I can fill in one Cluster with Nigel. He has a large match with my mom going back to 1765 in Sheffield, England.

I should have John Nicholson’s wife as my mom could just as easily be sharing her DNA. Here she is:

I’m getting stuck on my mom’s maternal side, so time to switch to paternal:

Otis and Cluster 39

Here is Otis:

Here Otis is 3rd cousin once removed and 4th cousin once removed on my mother’s Rathfelder side. This Chart describes Otis’ relationship to my mom as 5th cousin, once removed on the Gangnus side:

That means the Rathfelder side wins out (I think).

Otis and the Colony Effect

The Colony is effect is this. You put a bunch of Germans in a Colony in Latvia and they want to marry other Germans:

Here is Otis’ Cluster 39 in blue highlighted. Astrid is in the cluster above and to the left of Cluster 39. Otis is the top left match of the blue cluster. He also has shared matches with mom in other clusters below and to the right.

Doing Some Latvian Genealogy

I did a search for Latvia at my mother’s AncestryDNA match page:

Robert shows his maternal grandparents coming from Latvia. That means I could try to do some genealogy on Roberts tree if I want. Robert is also in Mom’s Cluster 45.

The All-Latvia Database

I was able to find the Resch family at:

http://www.lvva-raduraksti.lv

This is a good web site for Latvian research.

The Latvians like to Latvianize names. So I don’t know if Retsch is a German name changed to Recs or if Recs changed to Retsch. I also found Zamuels birthplace and birth date. The last column is place of origin. This shows as Riga for father and son. I usually look for Irsu Pag. which is Hirschenhof. That would link with my ancestors.

Robert has that Alma was born in Dresden, Germany, so I’ll look to Mazur and Rosenbach. I couldn’t find Rosenbach in the list. I did find some Martin’s in the Latvia Inhabitant list:

The closest Martin has his dad as Jēkabs.

A Latvian Secret Weapon

I was ready to give up but remembered I had a book on the Gangnus family. If Robert is related to me through that family, perhaps I could make a connection there.

I left out the bottom where it says Darmstadt 2003.

I looked up Retsch in this book and found one reference:

This reference says that Samual was born March 22, 1872 which is close to the April 3, 1872 I had above. Now all I have to do is make the connections. I have a feeling that the connections go back a way. What the above says is that Samuel married Charlotte Alma who was born 2 March 1867. Her parents were Johann Georg Gangnus and Marie Jacobine Schilling.

I see what happened. Robert had Charlotte Alma Gangnus as Alma Magnus. That makes sense. When I first saw my mother’s grandmother’s name written, I think it was written as Youganis.

Gangnus Production Update

Now I have two Gangnus/Gagnus families:

The good news is that I was about to give up on the Robert tree and then I remembered my Gangnus book. The bad news is that I’m getting lost in all these Gangnus families. However, I am starting to see our trees coming together in a confusing and interesting way.

If I understand this correctly, Robert and I are double 5th cousins. Robert and my mother are double fourth cousins, once removed. The other thing is that Robert is related on my mother’s paternal grandfather’s and grandmother’s side.

In order to display this on my spreadsheet, I added another row for Cluster 45:

Summary and Conclusions

  • The new autoclustering look helped show where the clusters grouped with each other. I wasn’t able to identify many more clusters specifically, but now I know in what area they should belong.
  • I was able to make a guess where my mother’s shared matches went from maternal to paternal
  • I looked at some paternal clusters. However, intermarriage in Hirschenhof, Latvia made it difficult to nail down DNA to a specific grandfather in at least one case.
  • I was able to build out Robert’s tree. Robert was in my mother’s Latvian Cluster 45. I used the All Latvia on-line Directory and a book I had on the Gangnus family in Latvia. However, after all that work, Robert appears to be equally related to my mom on both my mom’s paternal grandfather and grandmother’s sides.

 

 

 

 

 

Fun With an AncestryDNA Lentz Circle

My Lentz Line has been difficult to nail down. The genealogy has been difficult and it has been difficult to assign a lot of DNA to Lentz ancestors

My Lentz Circle at AncestryDNA

Ancestry has been helpful in the Lentz area. Here are my AncestryDNA Circles:

Lentz is one of my smallest circle with 9 members:

Six of those 9 members are from my family. That leaves two other groups with a total of three people in them. In the Deborah Family group, there are two Deborah’s. They appear to be mother and daughter. I built out the tree of the mother and found a common ancestor in John Lentz. Then I found the tree of the daughter Deborah and she had already built out her tree as seen here:

John Lentz is on the younger Debbie’s mother’s father’s father’s line or her great-grandfather Davenport’s Line. This matches up well with my Lentz Web Page:

I was unclear as to whether John had one or two wives. Debbie has identified the wife as Elisabeth Riehl. I didn’t follow the line down of William Andrew. However, I have more information on my Ancestry Tree, which puts my Web Page out of date:

 

Lentz DNA

One interesting thing is that I do not match either Deborah at AncestryDNA. They do, however, match my mother and some of my siblings. Here is my mom’s match with the elder Deborah:

What is more interesting is that the younger Debbie uploaded her DNA results to Gedmatch. This is what the match looks like between Debbie and my Mom:

By DNA, my mom, Gladys and the younger Debbie could be fourth cousins. However, Debbie and her mom match my mom at about the same amount of DNA. That means Debbie’s mom passed down all the Lentz DNA that matches my mom to her daughter. This DNA match is on the shortest Chromosome.

Visual Phasing for My Siblings – Chromosome 22

I performed visual phasing on my DNA. Here is what I had for Chromosome 22:

This matches up with what Gedmatch shows as Debbie’s matches with my family:

In this case the reportable matches start at about 15M, so that is where Jim, Heidi and Lori have Lentz DNA shown in green on the left hand side of my Chromosome 22 map above.

A Lentz DNA Tree

I have drawn a tree of the Lentz descendants who have had their DNA tested. I had missed Debbie, so she is not there yet:

I am on the left side of the tree. I also descend from the Nicholsons and get a lot of matches with that family. The right side of the tree is more specific as I have no Nicholson relatives there, but the relationships are further out. I am already tracking two people from the William Andrew Line there.

Here are the two Deborah’s added in:

This shows that my mom is a fourth cousin to the elder Deborah and I am a 5th cousin to the younger Deborah.

Here is how Debbie matches Radelle, Al and Stephen on Chromosome 12:

This suggests triangulation between these four people which would indicate a common ancestor:

My mom matches Radelle and Deborah, but on different Chromosomes. Hence, the Ancestry Circle.

Painting Debbie’s Match to My Mom

This is what I had previously for my mom’s John Lentz DNA based on her match with Radelle. That match is in dark green.

I need to add Mom’s Lentz DNA to Chromosome 22:

This doesn’t look like much, but it doubles what my mom had on Chromosome 22 previously.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Reviewing my AncestryDNA Circles lead me to a Lentz descendant who I had overlooked.
  • One of the people in the Circle had uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch. I had seen her match before, but didn’t know exactly how we connected on my mother’s line.
  • Because Debbie uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch, I was able to tell exactly where she matches different Lentz descendants.

 

My Closest DNA Match at MyHeritage with Unknown Connection

Blaine Bettinger has a knack for posting polls at the Genetic Genealogy Tips & Techniques Facebook page. A recent one was:

TODAY’S POLL: how much DNA do you share with your closest ‘unknown’ match at MyHeritage? Unknown = you haven’t yet placed them in your tree. 

My Closest Unknown Match: Molly

It turns out my closest match is Molly. She also matches my mom which is a good hint. Here is how Molly matches my mom by DNA:

On interesting thing I just noticed about Molly is that she is age 20 or below. My mom is 96. I am guessing that there could be a two generation gap between Molly and my mom. Molly was born in 2003, so there could even be a three generation difference. Molly has a tree, but her parents and grandparents show as private. I assume that they are all still living. I have sent a message to Molly, so perhaps she will write back.

Shared Matches between Gladys and Molly

MyHeritage shows shared matches between my mom, Gladys, and Molly:

Beth is mom’s second closest unknown match and also matches Molly – though more distantly. Danielle and Bridget show icons which means that they have triangulating DNA. This is specific matching DNA that has come from a common ancestor.

Beth’s Family Tree

Beth has a pretty good family tree:

Here is my mom’s tree:

 

Beth’s Schroek side is from Pennsylvania. My mom’s mom was from Pennsylvania, so my theory right now is that the common ancestor is on my mom’s mom’s side on the bottom side of her above tree.

A Pote Connection

Looking a little more closely at Beth’s family tree, I see a Pote connection. My mom has no Pote in her ancestry, but she does have Nicholson and a collateral line married into the Pote family. That seems like a likely connection. Here is what I have at Ancestry:

This shows the Schroek/Pote/Nicholson connection differently than the tree Beth has.

Here Beth has Martha N. Schroek. Her maiden name by my tree should be Pote. Beth also has Sarah Pote whose maiden name should be Nicholson. So the issue is mainly one of maiden names. However, Beth has Sarah Pote’s father as Sampson Pote, where I believe her father should be William Nicholson who is my mother’s great-grandfather.

Beth must have already been on my radar as here she is in a Nicholson Tree:

Beth shows as a 2nd cousin once removed to my mother.

What About Molly?

I mentioned above that I don’t have Molly’s tree. However, I can make a good guess as to where she is on the tree. Molly is probably at the level of Joshua and has as her ancestor Annie Nicholson born 1865 in Sheffield, England. That would make Molly a 1st cousin, three times removed to my mom.

Here are some statistics:

Molly would be at the top end of a 1st cousin three times removed or in a more reasonable range for a 1st cousin twice removed from my mom.

Going Down Molly and Gladys’ Shared Match List: Annette

Annette is after Beth on Molly and Gladys’ shared match list. It looks like Annette has a good tree with some common ancestors.

This shows that Gladys and Annette share Baker, Faunce and Peol ancestors.

The Philadelphia Bakers

Annette and Gladys are third cousins:

From what I can tell, Conrad Baker was a successful fisherman in Kensington in present day Philadelphia:

Here we see in the 1850 Census: Catherine and Mary and even a Pote. If I have it right, this part of Kensington is called Fishtown today.

Painting the Baker/Faunce common ancestors.

I use DNA Painter to paint common ancestors. Here is what I have for my mom so far:

 

Here’s my mom’s “new” Baker/Faunce DNA in light blue on Chromosomes 3 and 11:

I don’t think this DNA got passed down to me as I didn’t see a match between Annette and me at MyHeritage. This brought my mom’s mapped DNA up from 22% to 23%. On Chromosome 3, the change from brown to blue represents a crossover my mom has from her Nicholson grandparent side to her Lentz grandparent side.

Molly’s Next Shared Match with Gladys: Danielle

The good thing about Danielle is that she triangulates with my mom and Molly:

The area where the triangulation occurs is on Chromosome 3.

Here is Danielle’s tree:

Here is another tree I found at Ancestry:

This was more filled out but was missing Leon Edwards. Ancestry has Danielle and my mom as distant relatives. So it may be difficult to find common ancestors. However, I didn’t see any obvious family name matches to people in my mom’s known ancestry. I’ll just have to wait until later to solve this mystery. Danielle’s ancestors were from the same areas as my mom’s, so the potential is there for finding a common ancestor.

 

Summary and Conclusions

  • A question by Blaine Bettinger lead to some DNA and genealogical research at MyHeritage
  • I didn’t figure out how I am related to Molly but guessed at a relationship to my mom and a possible Nicholson or Lentz ancestry.
  • I re-found Beth with a shared Nicholson ancestry.
  • I found Annette who has an interesting connection to my mom on the Baker/Faunce line from early Kensington in current day Philadelphia. I was able to “paint” this DNA to my mom.
  • I found a person triangulating with Molly and my mom, but was not able to find a common ancestor.

My Mother’s Best Lentz DNA Match

I’ve been in touch with Radelle for a while. First, we were in touch over Lentz genealogy without the DNA part. Some of the Lentz genealogy that I had done in the past was helpful in Radelle finding parents for her ancestor Eliza Lentz. Radelle later took the AncestryDNA test and recently uploaded those results to Gedmatch.com.

Lentz Genealogy

I have made a Lentz tree for those that have had their DNA tested and uploaded the results to Gedmatch. There would be a bigger tree of those who haven’t had their DNA tested.

I’m on the left side of the chart. Radelle is on the right side of the chart. Radelle, Al, and Stephen descend from Eliza and William Andrew Lentz. Note that Al and Stephen’s great grandfather is Phillip Miller Chappell. Phillip Miller is discussed below as the 2nd husband of Eliza who married John Lentz at the top of the chart. Phillip Miller most likely raised the young Lentz family. Judy, Joshua, my mom and her children and my 1st cousin Cindy descend from Jacob Lentz b. 1818. Because Jacob George Lentz b. 1866 married Annie Nicholson, I can’t tell for sure if the matches with Judy, Joshua and Cindy are on the Lentz side or Nicholson side. Radelle and my mom are 4th cousins. Radelle is 4th cousin once removed to everyone else except for Joshua. Radelle is 4th cousin, 3 times removed to Joshua.

I had a difficult time nailing down John Lentz years ago when I was working on Lentz genealogy. I wasn’t sure if there were one or two John Lentz’s in the area at the time. From what I could tell, John died and his wife Eliza married Phillip Miller. Here is an 1877 death notice for Eliza:

Notice that the funeral reception was at Eliza’s daughter in law’s house. Mary A Lentz was my 3rd great grandmother, the wife of Jacob Lentz b. 1818. Eliza was Jacob Lentz’s (b. 1818) mom, so Mary A Lentz his wife was Eliza’s daughter in law. Based on the above death notice, Eliza would have been born about 1796.

Who Was the Eliza Lentz Married to John Lentz and Phillip Miller?

I see that Radelle has a possible name for Eliza:

 

This record was from Trinity Church, Oxford. According to Wikipedia:

Old Trinity Church, also known as Trinity Church, Oxford, is a historic Episcopal church founded in 1698 in Oxford Township, Pennsylvania, which is now part of Philadelphia

Here is another hint that came up for me at Ancestry. This is from Kensington

This may fit in better as far as the date goes. This would mean that Eliza was married at about age 26. The first marriage, Eliza would have been married at about age 17.

However, having said that, it does appear that Radelle is right as I have that the three sons of John were born before December 1st 1822. Perhaps Elizabeth Refford died in childbirth at the birth of Wiliam Andrew Lentz who was born 13 May 1822. John would have had no one to take care of his young family. So perhaps he remarried Eliza Rihl later that same year. Something to think about. However, then John Lentz died in 1823. Eliza marries Phillip Miller in 1825. If I have my facts right, then the Lentz children were raised by a step mother and a step father.

The DNA Part

I said that Radelle was my mom’s largest Lentz DNA match. Here is how they match at gedmatch:

Their estimated common ancestors are at 4.4 generations based on the DNA match. Their actual ancestors are 5 generations back, so that is a bit more than average DNA that they share. Here are some more matches Radelle has with my family:

Heidi and Jon are my siblings. Gladys is my mom. Heidi got the same match with Radelle that my mom had. Jon and I got less. My two sisters Lori and Sharon don’t match Radelle.

Mapping My Family’s DNA onChromosome 2

I have my DNA mapped. That mapping shows where my siblings and I got our DNA based on how our four grandparents contributed. Any match with Radelle should be on the Lentz grandparent side.

This shows why Jon and I had less than a fuill dose of Lentz DNA from our mom. My mom matches Radelle between 171 and 212M. I have a crossover at 186. That means on maternal Chromosome 2, my Lentz DNA ends at 186M and the Rathfelder DNA takes over. Lori is has all Rathfelder DNA in that area (from my mom’s dad) so she doesn’t match Radellether. Jon has a Crossover at 180M, so he matches Radelle’s Lentz DNA less than I do. Here is a close-up of the area where Radelle matches me and my brother Jon:

We match Radelle only in the yellow Lentz segments. I didn’t show Heidi, but she has a longer Lentz segment than Jon or me in this area of Chromosome 2.

DNA Matches to My Mom and Radelle

At Gedmatch, there is a way to find common matches to two people. I did this for my mom and Radelle. When those matches are on the same segment, that tells me that these people should share the same ancestors. Here is how my mom matches Radelle and four others on Chromosome 2:

#3 had a tree at Gedmatch.

A Lanz/Lantz family may be a link to the Lentz family.

Another Chromosome Map

Kitty Munson has a chromosome mapping utility at her web site. Using my new match with Radelle, I get this:

The new match with Radelle translates to the DNA I got from John Lentz b. 1792 (or his wife who appears to be Elisabeth). That new piece of DNA appears in pink on my maternal side Chromosome 2. This map is different from the mapping I did with Chromosome 2 above that only has my grandparents. This map uses matches from actual people with known ancestry. The DNA match with Radelle pushed back what I had on the Lentz family over 70 years.

Other Matches?

Unfortunately, I didn’t see other matches between Radelle and other Lentz descendants. It may be that the relationships are too distant and the DNA dropped out. However, Radelle matches my mom and three out of five of her children. My mom matches others on the Jacob George Lentz branch. That implies that the DNA match between my mom and Radelle also applies to them:

Here are the chances of matching a specific level of cousin:

Summary and Conclusions

  • Radelle is my mom’s biggest identified Lentz DNA match. This helps solidify the genealogy that Radelle and I have done.
  • With previous Jacob George Lentz descendants matches, I couldn’t tell if the DNA represented Lentz or Nicholson. The match with Radelle would be the first Lentz-only identified DNA match.
  • I was able to add a late 1700’s Lentz DNA segment to my Chromosome map
  • Radelle got me thinking again about John Lentz, Elisabeth and Eliza. I came up with a possible scenario for this family which had the children being raised by two step-parents.
  • Radelle does not match other Lentz desendants by DNA. This may be due to the distance of the relationships. After fourth cousin level, the chances of matching by DNA drops off.
  • I’ll be waiting to see if we find other Lentz DNA matches. These matches seem to be a bit rare.

 

 

Blaine’s X Chromosome Challenge

Recently, Blaine Bettinger challenged people on his Genetic Genealogy Tips & Techniques page:

Who is your closest X match at GEDmatch, that you didn’t target test? 

Blaine’s previous challenge challenge produced some interesting results and I was running out of ideas, so I thought that I’d try it. Technically, my closest X match is fourth on my Gedmatch list below. That match is my maternal 1st cousin Rusty at 120 cM, but I think that Blaine meant to look for the first match that we didn’t know.

The top six matches are my mom, four siblings and a maternal 1st cousin. I have four matches at the bottom of the list. They all have the same email address, so I assume they are closely related. These are my highest X Chromosome matches where I don’t know how we are related. A good surprise is that the top match Alice has a family tree indicated by a GED hyperlink.

I quickly checked the GED link looking for maternal matches. My mom’s matches are usually German on her dad’s side, or from Sheffield, England. I was disappointed to not see any of those places on the list. I did however see a Pennsylvania name of Faunce. My mom is from Pennsylvania and has a Faunce ancestor.

Here is Alice’s tree as posted at Gedmatch :

Here is my mom’s tree:

If Alice’s tree had a Jacob Faunce, then I would have had a match and Catherine and Elizabeth Faunce could have been sisters. However, it is not that easy.

Back to the DNA

Here is the detailed match I have with Alice:

Here is the results of mapping the X Chromosome to myself and 4 siblings:

My match with Alice was in my Lentz area which leads back to Faunce. I have the bar starting with J. It looks like Sharon and Jonathan should also match Alice on the X. Here is the path that the X Chromosome inheritance could have taken for my mom:

Alice also has a clear sailing path for her X Chromosome. It goes from her mom Rosalie, to her grandmother Alice, then her great grandmother Ida, 2nd great grandfather Anson Hale and finally to Alice’s 3rd great grandmother Elizabeth Faunce. Now that I’ve established a route where there could be an X Chromosome match, I need to get back to the genealogy.

Catherine Faunce and Her Daughter Mary A Baker

It took me a long time to figure out who was the wife of my 2nd great grandfather George Washington Lentz b. 1840. I was determined to find out who she was. The 1910 Census George’s son Jacob Lentz gave me a hint.

Here on Earl Street there were three generations of Lentz. My grandmother, Emma, her dad Jacob Lentz and his mother Mary Lentz. Of particular interest was the fact that an Aunt, Sohpia Kemble was living with them. She was 72 at the time. Next, I go back 10 years to 1900:

Mary Lentz is living with her two sisters in Palmyra, NJ. One of Mary’s sisters is single – Elizabeth Baker. That gives me the maiden name of Mary Lentz. The Findagrave.com has an article on Mary Baker Lentz’s mom who was Catherine Faunce:

Here is the marriage record for Catherine Faunce in 1824:

The record reader interpreted Faunce as Fanner.

Elizabeth Faunce

Alice has her ancestor Elizabeth Faunce as the mother of Anson Hale on her tree. Here is Anson and mother Elizabeth in 1860 along with the rest of the family with them at that time:

Here Elizabeth was born in Pennsylvania. I had a lot of trouble finding information on Elizabeth outside of Ancestry Trees. This makes me suspicious that the trees are copying each other. The 1880 Census tells us that Elizabeth’s parents were also born in Pennsylvania. I was able to find a tree Alice put on FamilySearch:

Above, I’m not sure the jump from Pennsylvania to Plymouth, MA is warranted. My understanding is that the Philadelphia Faunce family was originally the German Fans which got anglicized to Faunce.  The Plymouth, MA Faunce was probably always the English Faunce. Another point is that in the 1880 Census, Elizabeth [Faunce] Hale lists both her parents as being born in Pennsylvania.

William Hale and Elizabeth are in Howell in 1850:

Joseph appears to be their eldest. He was born around 1832, so let’s say William and Elizabeth married in 1831. It turns out that may have been a good guess as I find this at Ancestry:

I at least feel better finding a record outside of a Family Tree. Now I feel justified in adding the Faunce surname to Elizabeth. However, note that these two were married in Philadelphia where my mom’s Faunce ancestors lived. From my tree, I have a Jacob Faunce living in Kensington, Philadelphia in 1820. At this time, Elizabeth would have been between 7 and 12 depending on whether she was born in 1809 or 1813.

There were eight people living in Jacob’s house in 1820. Let’s say there were two parents and six children. Of the six children, four were girls. One was under 10, two were 10-15 and one was at least 16. It could be that Elizabeth Faunce was one of these four girls.

Summary and Conclusion

  • My closest non-identified X match is on my Lentz line
  • That X inheritance line could follow back to my ancestor Catherine Faunce in Philadelphia
  • My closest match Alice’s X inheritance line could follow back to her ancestor Elizabeth Faunce who married William Hale in Philadelphia in 1831
  • Alice has a father for Elizabeth who was from Plymouth Massachusetts
  • Based on the DNA and genealogy I believe this Plymouth father may not be correct for Elizabeth Faunce.
  • I am suggesting that Elizabeth Faunce is linked with a Philadelphia Faunce family based on DNA and genealogy.
  • Although I have shown that it is possible for Elizabeth’s father to be my Ancestor Jacob Faunce, I have not been able to prove that by the DNA and genealogy.

 

Sadie’s Nicholson DNA

Recently, I’ve been in touch with a new DNA relative on my mom’s Nicholson side. Sadie showed up at AncestryDNA as many matches do. Sadie, however, also showed up as a Shared Ancestor Hint. These are good. As long as the genealogy on both sides is good, this shows how you connect to your DNA match by common ancestors.

Emma above is my grandmother and Martha is Sadie’s great grandmother. That makes us third cousins once removed to each other. Speaking of Emma, I found a photo of her online that I hadn’t seen before. My cousin Judy in the chart below had posted it:

Emma is holding her Lentz niece. However, they are both Nicholson descendants. The niece was born in 1918.

Here is how Sadie fits in with some of the other Nicholson DNA-tested relatives:

I’ve chopped off some of my unrelated Rathfelder ancestors on the left. Sadie descends from Sarah who represents a new daughter of William Nicholson and Martha Ellis. Actually Sarah Nicholson is new to this DNA project and the eldest child of William and Martha Nicholson.

Sadie’s Nicholson DNA

Sadie matches me and my 4 siblings as well as my mom by DNA. She matches my cousin Rusty. She doesn’t match Judy and Joshua. She matches Joan and Joan’s sister Linda. She matches Carolyn but not Nigel. The largest Nicholson match that Sadie has is on Chromosome 6:

Here she matches:

  1. Joan
  2. Me
  3. My mom
  4. My sister Heidi
  5. My sister Sharon
  6. My Brother Jonathan
  7. Another Nicholson relative that hasn’t gotten back to me
  8. My cousin Rusty
  9. My sister Lori

It looks like a lot of people, but it could be reduced to Joan, my mom, the other Nicholson relative and my cousin Rusty. That is because my siblings and I got all our Nicholson DNA from our mom. These matches form a Triangulation Group:

The theory says that these four people got their specific matching DNA from either William Nicholson or Martha Ellis. However, because we don’t know which, I’ve circled them both. This doesn’t mean that the other people that didn’t match on Chromosome 6 don’t descend from William and Martha. However, it does give solid evidence that the ones that do match do descend from the couple.

A Chromosome Mapping Side Trip

In Sadie’s matches, I noticed that Sadie had a shorter match with my sister Lori who is #9

This means that Lori likely has a crossover where her match stops around 56M. Here is Lori’s match with Sadie:

It looks like chromosome mapping would go beyond the scope of this Blog, so I’ll address this later. My assumption is that Lori’s maternal Chromosome 6 switches from her Lentz grandmother (whose mother was a Nicholson) to her Rathfelder grandfather at about position 56M.

Sadie’s Nicholson X Chromosome Matches

The important rule about the X Chromosome is that it doesn’t travel down from father to son. That means if there are two males in a line going up from a DNA tester to a common ancestor, then there can’t be an X Chromosome match there. This applies to only Nigel in my chart. Nigel is from a long line of Nicholson males.

Here are Sadie’s top three X matches:

The first match is Joan. I don’t know who the second match is. Probably a non-Nicholson match. The third match is to Judy in the chart above. The pink zero means that Judy shares no autosomal DNA (Chromosomes 1-22) with Sadie but does share a sizeable X Chromosome match. Here are Sadie’s X matches with these two Nicholson cousins on the Gedmatch Chromosome Browser:

#1 is Sadie’s match with Joan and #2 is her match with Judy. Again, we can’t know if this DNA is from William Nicholson or Martha Ellis. This is because Sadie, Joan and Judy descend from daughters of William and Martha. If one of them had descended from a son, then we would know that the X Chromosome they got would have to be from Martha Ellis.

My Chromosome Map

I almost forgot to update my Chromosome Map based on Sadie. This is the one based on all my identified cousins that match by DNA. Kitty Munson developed the software for this:

Sadie shows up on my map as maroon on Chromosome 2 and 6. The 2 is important as I had no maternal match on that large Chromosome prior to the match with Sadie. Here are the specifics of my match with Sadie: