Two New Nicholson DNA Matches

I just noticed that I had a new Nicholson DNA match named Jessica:

Jessica shows to match on my mother’s side. Ancestry has already figured out that Jessica and I have a common ancestor:

Ancestry would like me to evaluate Jessica’s tree. The Docrill threw me off a bit, as I have a Maria Baxter Nicholson in my tree:

I also had that Maria died in 1866. I wonder where I found that. Perhaps I got the wrong person:

In 1861, I have that Maria Baxter Nicholson was living in Liverpool with her grandmother Ann Ellis:

This is why I like Census records so much. They tell quite a story. Here we have three generations of Nicholsons. From a previous Blog, I have that Ann Baxter is Ann Ellis who is the daughter of the elder Ann Roebuck Ellis listed in the Census:

I see this record online:

One reason this marriage to George Dockrill makes sense is that the Dockrill name is carried down in the US in Walter Nicholson’s Line:

This name must have been given in this family to rememer the Nicholson sister Maria who stayed in England. Assuming we have this right, Walter would have been a younger brother of Maria Baxter Nicholson. He named his son George Dockrell or Dockrill Nicholson.

More DNA Matches for Jessica

As it was not easy to find a marriage record between Maria Baxter Nicholson and George Nehemiah Dockrill, let’s look at some more DNA matches. Jessica matches my mother at 128 cM:

That is a substantial match. That means that I need to erase the early death record I had for Maria Nicholson. I’ll also add Jessica to my Nicholson DNA match Tree:

Jessica is in the first column.

Another DNA Match with Michelle

I can look at DNA matches that are shared between Jessica and my Mom. I see an interesting shared DNA match with Michelle and my Mom. They share 59 cM across three segments. Here is Michelle’s tree on her paternal side:

My attention is drawn to Michelle’s ancestor Francis Nicholson. When I search Ancestry for Francis, I find this record in someone’s tree:

My web page on the Nicholsons has a Henry here:

There is also a Matthew Henry on my web page, but this one makes more sense as Henry is the older brother of William who is my 2nd great grandfather. The tree above has this Henry born 1831 and I have him born 1822, so that is a bit of a dscrepancy. The tree above has Henry married to Ann Bainbridge. I have Matthew Henry married to Mary Ann Bailey.

Here is Matthew Henry and Mary Ann Bailey in 1861:

Matthew Henry was a boss of some type and his sister-in-law was the housemaid. It looks like he had an adopted daughter Mary. That seems to rule out Matthew Henry as Michelle’s direct ancestor.

More on Henry NIcholson

Here is Henry and family in 1861:

Here we still have the age discrepancy. If Henry was 29 in 1861, then that is where the later birth of 1832 must come from. I believe that this is the same Henry in 1841:

Concerning Henry’s age:

Ages in the 1841 Census

The census takers were instructed to give the exact ages of children but to round the ages of those older than 15 down to a lower multiple of 5. For example, a 59-year-old person would be listed as 55.

That means that Henry would have actually been around 18 in 1841. Henry’s father Matthew had died the yeaer before in 1840. In 1841 Henry was a cutler and in 1861, he was a table knife [hafter?].

Here I have added Michelle and Henry Nicholson into my DNA/Ancestry tree. That means that Michelle is Gladys’ (my mother’s) third cousin once removed. This is where the DNA gives some confidence to the relationship when some of othe genealogical records are missing.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I don’t get many new third cousin DNA matches, so Jessica was a good find
  • Jessica descends from Maria Nicholson. I was not aware of this Nicholson Line before I found out about the DNA match with Jessica.
  • Jessica and my mother have a shared match with Michelle. Michelle descends from Henry Nicholson. The DNA connection fills in some of the missing or not yet found yet genealogical records.

Another Nicholson Heard from at 23andMe

Lately I have been reaching out to Nicholson descendants at 23andMe who match me by DNA. The last one that I had identified was Dave and I wrote a Blog about my match with him here.

It turns out that this match is with Cynthia who is Dave’s sister. I didn’t realize that until I just checked. Cynthia’s common matches with me.

This shows that David is my third cousin and Cythia’s brother.

Here is how we match. I’ll need to add Cynthia into David’s box on the lower right. Cynthia didn’t know much beyond her Nicholson grandfather. I have more on the Nicholson family here. Here is Walter’s baptismal record from Kensington Presbyterian Church:

Walter is Cynthia’s Nicholson great-grandfather. Walter and his brother George Dockrill Nicholson were both baptized on April 4, 1886 when they were 10 or 11. Cynthia’s grandfather George Dockrill Nicholson was named for Walter’s brother.

My DNA Match with Cynthia

My DNA match with Cynthia is similar to the one I have with her brother David, but larger:

Here is my match with David:

I match David on the same Chromosomes but for less on each Chromosome.

I had added David to my Chromosome map, now I can add Cynthia. Here is Cynthia on Chromosome 8:

My match with Cynthia is represented by the third purple bar. Her match overlaps some with Linda. In order for these people to match me, each of our unique mixes of chromosome inheritances have to match up. David and Cynthia’s DNA matches with me do not overlap with each other

Other people that match me on this Chromosome are Linda, Carolyn, Beth and Robert.

Robert and Beth are the great-grandchildren of Sarah Nicholson, my great-grandmother Annie’s older sister. Linda and Carolyn descend from Nellie Nicholson and David and Cynthia descend from Walter Nicholson. David and
Cynthia also have a 1st cousin Robert, but he tested at AncestryDNA, so he doesn’t have detailed DNA comparison information unless he uploads his results to Gedmatch, MyHeritage or Famly Tree DNA (FTDNA).

My DNA Match with Cynthia on Chromosome 20

We have two copies of each of our chromosomes. Both Cynthia and I match on our maternal copy of our Chromosome 20. That is because that is our Nicholson side.

Chromosome 20 is one of the shorter chromosomes. Judith descends from my closer Lentz and Nicolson ancestors, so she is in a different color. Cynthia’s DNA match with me on this chromosome overlaps my match with David and Carolyn, meaning we all got the same DNA from William Nicholson or his wife Martha Ellis there.

Here is what my maternal chromosomes look like now:

Cynthia brought my maternally mapped DNA up a percentage to 38%. The purple represents DNA from my great-grandmother Annie Nicholson. I have eight great-grandparents, so that represents roughly 12.5% of all of my DNA or 25% of my maternal side DNA. Taking this one step further:

5.5% divided by 12.5% is 44%. That is the amount of DNA from William Nicholson and Martha Ellis that I have mapped now.

Visual Phasing

I have mapped out by visual phasing where I got my DNA from each of my grandparents on all my chromosome. Here is Chromosome 8:

I am the third person on the chart. All my maternal side (green) DNA came from my maternal grandmother who was a Lentz. However, this is my Nicholson side also as my grandmother’s mother was a Nicholson. That explains why I match Nicholsons well on this Chromosome. My sister Lori has the second most Lentz DNA on the bottom row.

Here is Chromosome 20 for me and my siblings:

Again, I have all green or Lentz. By looking at my siblings’ DNA, you can get a good idea how DNA is inherited differently by each sibling. For example, my sister Sharon would not match Cynthia on this Chromosome as she has a lot of Rathfelder DNA on Chromosome 20. But she may match on another chromosome where I con’t match Cynthia.

23andMe Family Tree

23andMe suggests that I add Cynthia to their tree:

I also added David on the lower left part of the tree.

 

DNA Relative Chris at 23andMe – a Lentz/Nicholson Descendant?

I wrote to Chris about a year and a half ago because we had a good DNA match at 23andMe. I perhaps confused Chris by mentioning another common relative named Judy as Chris would not have known the last name of Judy. I sent a message recently about being able to see Chris’ DNA results and got a message back that Chris didn’t know Judy but was curious about her ancestry. I’m curious as to where we connect also.

My DNA Connection with Chris

Here are the places that Chris and I share DNA. Based on the amount of DNA we share, 23andMe guesses that we are 2nd cousins once removed. 23andMe also put my match with Chris onto their Family Tree:

 

The Judith who I mentioned is on the left. She descends from William Lentz. By the way that 23andMe has the tree, it seems like Chris should descend from one of William’s siblings. That is assuming that the tree was created correctly. I know that Judith is my 2nd cousin. 23andMe think that Chris and I are 2nd cousins once removed. That means that he was born a generation after me.

Here are Jacob Lentz and Annie Nicholson:

Jacob is wearing a bow tie and Annie is to his right. My grandmother Emma is in front of Annie and my mother is in front of Emma. This is what I have for the other people:

TOP – Uncle Stanley, grandfather Lentz, Grandmother Lentz
MIDDLE – Aunt Agnes, Cousin Hazel, Gladys’ Mom
BOTTOM – Cousin Doris, Rob, Cousin Rob Poole, Muriel, Gladys

Some Lentz Genealogy

Since I have looked at a DNA tree, let’s look at the Lentz familyTree

Judy descends from William. I descend from Emma. That leaves Stanley and Agnes for Chris. I don’t see a record that Agnes’ son Robert was married or had children. That seems to leave Stanley Lentz.

Stanley Lentz Born 1894

These are the children I have for Stanley:

I couldn’t find much information about Hazel Lentz.

This findagrave.com record suggests that Doris may never have married:

Stanley Lentz

He had these children:

That filled in some more of my Lentz genealogy, but shed no light on how I match Chris.

William Lentz

I have that Judith descends from William. Perhaps Chris does also. I’ll look into some of his children.

Margaret Lentz

Margaret married John Viden. I couldn’t find a record that they had children.

Elva Lentz

I have this husband and children for Elval:

Bernice Lentz

In my last Blog, I had that Judy was the daughter of Florence. Now I see I should hae had her as the daughter of Bernice. I see this photo at Ancestry:

Judy shared the above photo with this caption:

My guess is that Judy is Bernice’s only child.

This family lived in Pitman, NJ:

Emma Lentz

Emma was born a little over a year before my mother:

I’m sure there were other descendants, but no clear connection to Chris, my DNA Relative at 23andMe. If Chris gets back to me with more family information, I’m sure I will be able to make a connection.

 

My Nicholson Ancestors in Liverpool

I was recently looking up information on my mother’s grandmother Annie Nicholson and found a baptismal record for her and her sister Agnes from Liverpool. In that record, her father was listed as a saw maker. This was too much of a coincidence not to be true.

Nicholson Genealogy

Here is what I have at my Nicholson Web Page:

Ann is child 3 and Agnes is child for. This information is now probably wrong as I have them both being born in Sheffield. I had just assumed that they were born there as the Nicholson family history went back quite a ways in Sheffield. My assumption was that they emmigrated from Sheffield to Philiadelphia.

From Sheffield to Liverpool

The time that the Nicholson family was in Liverpool was not caught on the Census as the family was in Sheffield in 1861:

 

Parkwood Springs was part of Brightside:

It looks like Brightside is actually to the West of where I circled. At this time, William and Martha had a daughter who was 9 months old.

Not too long after the 1861 Census which was taken on April 7, the family moved to Liverpool. Sarah Ann was baptized there on January 19, 1862. I can’t make out William Nicholson’s profession other than he was a saw maker:

[Based on my research below, this says Fontenoy Street where the family lived in Liverpool before they moved to Bootle. ] This record is taken from the Bishop’s Transcript. That means that it was copied from another record. Sarah Ann’s sister Emma was baptized on the same day:

Here is a drawing of the downtown Liverpool St Peter’s Church from 1800:

 

My assumption is that Sarah Ann was born in Sheffield and Emma was born in Liverpool.

Ann Eliza and Agnes D

Ann Eliza was my great grandmother. Here is her baptismal record from St. Peter from 1865:

Ann Eliza was born in March and baptized in August. Also of interest is that the family lived in “Bootle”. Or Booth. But it looks like Bootle to me. Maybe the Beatles lived there. Bootle. Beatle. Here is Bootle to the North of Liverpool:

Bootle appears to be a little less than a mile from downtown Liverpool. My guess is that Ann Eliza and Agnes were born in Bootle.

Here is the baptismal record for Agnes:

This took place also at St. Peter’s Church in Liverpool on March 9, 1869.

From Bootle to Philadelphia

There was a tight time-frame for the family getting from Sheffield to Bootle. Now there was another tight time-frame for the Nicholson family moving to Philiadelphia. Here is the ship record for Martha and her children when they arrived in New York City:

William was likely already in Philadelphia at this time. Also it is interesting that Ann went by Eliza at this time. This record tells a story. Martha here traveling without her husband and her four girls from Liverpool to Queensland to New York City. From there they must have gone to Ellis Island and then made their way to Philadelphia where William must have prepared a place for them. My guess is that William missed the US Census that was held on June 1, 1870. However, according to the 1900 Census, William immigrated in 1868:

Let’s see what the 1910 Census says:

This shows he immigrated in 1870, and that he is naturalized. His wife also has an immigration date which doesn’t make sense as she is shown as being born in Pennsylvania.

Some More Parish Records from St Peter’s in Liverpool

My research friend in England reminded me that the Lancashire Online Parish Registers covers LIverpool. So I took a look there. Here is a confusing entry:

This looks like William and Martha were living in Liverpool in 1860 when Maria Baxter Nicholson was baptized. Here is a photo from 1901 of Fontenoy Street:

Here is an 1860 map showing Fontenoy Street:

Here is a modern map including the Beatles Statue:

However, the 1861 Census shows that my ancestors were living in Sheffield. William and Martha were married in 1856, so that would have given them time to have a daughter born in 1858. I can’t think that there were too many saw makers named William Nicholson who were married to a Martha who baptized their children in the same Church (St Peter, Liverpool).

Here is Maria in the 1861 Census in Liverpool The Baxters and others were living at 25 Fontenoy Street:

I might as well get more confused. Here Maria is a boarder or lodger at the house of William Baxter who is also a saw maker. Living in the house was Ann Ellis widow aged 66. So did William move back to Sheffield and say, “William take care of my daughter who I named after you”? And who is Ann Ellis? Martha’s mother was Nancy Roebuck born in 1795, so this could be the same person. That means that Ann Baxter must be Ann Ellis born about 1822:

This could also explain the Sheffield/Liverpool connection.

I see I left an important detail from the Baxter 1861 Census. That is where everyone was born:

Everyone in that Census was born in Sheffield except for Ann Ellis who was born in Thorne.  I have that my ancestor Nancy Ellis was born in Thorne, so this makes sense. That is what I like about the Census. It shows a lot of family relationships and gives a lot of information in a little space.

William Baxter and Ann Ellis

I feel I have enough information to go on to make a case that William Baxter’s wife Ann was actually Ann Ellis. Here is the family in 1851 in Nether Hallam to the West of Sheffield:

William was listed as a saw smith.

More On Ann Roebuck Ellis

Here is Ann in 1871 back in Sheffield:

Ann is listed as a lodger with Elizabeth Roebuck. As Elizabeth is listed as widowed, she could be a sister-in-law. Elizabeth is listed as born in Sheffield and Ann in Thorne.

What I Have Learned So Far

Perhaps a chronology would help

  • April 1858 Maria Baxter born to William Nicholson and Martha Ellis in Sheffield
  • June 1860 Sarah Ann born to William Nicholson and Martha Ellis in Sheffield
  • August 1860 Maria Baxter Nicholson Baptized, Liverpool
  • 1861 Census William, Martha and Sarah Ann living in Sheffield
  • 1861 Maria Baxter Nicholson living with Uncle William Baxter, Aunt Ann Ellis Baxter and grandmother Ann (Nancy) Roebuck Ellis
  • So it is not clear whether William and Martha Nicholson were present at the baptism of their daughter Maria Baxter. I had assumed that they were.
  • Dec 1861 – Emma Nicholson born, probably in Liverpool.
  • Jan 19, 1862 – Emma Nicholson baptized at St Peter’s in Liverpool.
  • Jan 19, 1862 – Sarah Ann Nicholson baptized at St Peter’s  in Liverpool. Emma’s and Sarah’s address is given as Fontenoy Street, Liverpool.
  • March 1865 – Birth of Ann Eliza Nicholson presumed in Boote, Lancashire.
  • August 1865 – Baptism of Ann Eliza at St Peter’s, Liverpool
  • Feb 1869 – Birth of Agnes D Nicholson in Bootle
  • March 1869 – Baptism of Agnes D at St. Peter’s, Liverpool
  • Nov 1870 – Martha Nicholson travels from Liverpool to New York City with her four daughters: Sarah Ann, Emma, Eliza and Agnes. The girls are between the ages of  and 11.
  • 1871 – Martha’s mother Ann Roebuck Ellis now 76 years old is living with Elizabeth Roebuck in North Sheffield.

That seems to summarize about 13 eventful years for the Nicholson family.

A Few Loose Ends

I haven’t found William Nicholson’s shipping record or naturalization records. This may be Maria’s death record from 1866:

Though the family should have been in Bootle by then.

I found out some things about Ann Ellis. I could fill more blanks in with her or her siblings. Here are her siblings:

Summary and Conclusions

  • While I was filling in my brother’s maternal side ancestry for DNA testing, I came upon a few interesting records that indicated my Nicholson ancestors may have lived in Liverpool before moving from Sheffield to Philadelphia
  • I checked the records and they did live there. In fact, my great grandmother Ann Eliza and four of her sisters were baptized in Liverpool.
  • I also found my third great grandmother living in Liverpool with William and Ann Baxter in 1861. This Ann was probably Ann Ellis, Martha Ellis Nicholson’s older sister. For some reason Willliam and Martha Nicholson’s youngest daughter was living in the Baxter house also in 1861 while William and Martha were in Sheffield with their infant second daughter.
  • I left with some follow up work to fill in some of the blanks.
  • I didn’ know last week that I had something in common with the Beatles. Now I know that I do.

 

 

A New Nicholson DNA Match with Robert at MyHeritage

MyHeritage occasionally sends me updates on my new DNA matches. Robert was one that stood out recently. Here is how my DNA match looks like with Robert:

Robert and I match on the above 5 chromosomes.

Robert’s Genealogy

Because of past experience, I know that I will match Robert on his maternal side. I believe that Martha Pote is a daughter of a Nicholson. Here is the relative spot where Robert fits in on my DNA matching/Nicholson Genealogy Tree:

I say relative place,  because I don’t know for sure whether Robert is Sadie’s father or uncle. If they had both tested at MyHeritage, I would be able to tell. Actually, I may be able to tell, because I have Sadie’s DNA painted. Either way, Robert is my third cousin and we share Nicholson and Ellis DNA – specifically from William Nicholson and Martha Ellis.

DNA Painter

Here is Sadie at DNA Painter. This is how she matches me:

If Sadie only had DNA matches that contain Roberts, she is most likely his daughter. If she has DNA matches that are different than Robert, then Robert is likely not her father. This is based on the fact that Sadie got all the DNA that matches me from her father. When I check DNA Painter, Sadie’s DNA is contained in Robert’s DNA matches, so it is likely her father. Plus I see Sadie’s email listed for Robert at Gedmatch, where his results also show up.

I have quite a few Nicholson matches already, but Robert adds some new DNA (see circled below):

The new areas of Nicholson/Ellis matches are on Chromosomes 1 and 5.

Here are some other matches on my maternal side Chromosome 1:

I have left out the names for privacy, but Robert is the purple match. He is right over Judith who is a closer match under Lentz/Nicholson. This tells me that my match with Judith is on her Nicholson side and not on her Lentz side.

Here are all my maternal matches:

Note that Robert’s purple match on Chromosome 1 is obscured by the green matches. Expanding Chromosome 1 shows the details.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Robert descends from Sarah Nicholson who was the older sister of my great grandmother Annie Nicholson, making us third cousins
  • I was able to paint Robert’s DNA onto my Chromosome map. This DNA represents the DNA Robert and I share from either William Nicholson or Martha Ellis. This couple was born in Sheffield, England and moved to Pennsylvania.
  • Robert’s DNA added to my Nicholson/Ellis DNA as well as adding to my mother’s DNA profile and my siblings’ chromosome maps.
  • In one case, due to a matching overlap, I was able to tell that a closer Lentz/Nicholson match was actually on the Nicholson side.
  • When we match an ancestral couple, the DNA is actually from one or the other of the couple, but we usually don’t know which. For the example of the match with cousin Judy, Robert identified that the DNA was from Annie Nicholson and not her Lentz husband.

 

 

Comparing My Family’s Common Ancestor Results at AncestryDNA: Part 1

Recently, I was looking at my sister Heidi’s Common Ancestor results at AncestryDNA and noticed that she had a lot of new ones that I wasn’t aware of. In order to find these, I go to DNA matches, then I filter for common ancestors. Because I like to count things, I’ll put the results in a table. It will be interesting to compare the results for me and my 4 siblings who have tested at AncestryDNA. Here is a chart starting with me:

Also The numbers are good, but it is the actual common ancestors that are interesting. I guess I should add the mother’s side also. Ironically, my mother isn’t listed as being on my mother’s side, but my siblings are. That’s OK. Also, I don’t know if the mother’s side works for distant cousins:

Here is the filled out chart:

The comparison is interesting:

  • I have the fewest DNA matches with common ancestors.
  • My sister Lori has the most DNA matches with common ancestors
  • Maternal side matches are not given for Distant Cousins
  • My mother’s 4th cousin matches and Distant Cousin Matches are important ones. Many of these would not be covered by my and my siblings’ matches.

Looking At My Mother’s Common Ancestors

First, I went through my mother’s 4th cousin and Distant Relative Common Ancestor matches and put a colored dot with the ancestor to designate the branch. I have had trouble identifying Lentz ancestors previously, but now I notice quite a few, so I would like to take a look at those matches.

Shoring Up the Lentz Common Ancestors

Here is the Lentz DNA matching chart I have so far:

The left part of the chart has Nicholson matches and there are a lot of them, so I would like to augment the right-hand side of the chart. Green means that the DNA match is listed in a place where I can tell where on the chromosome the match is. This is usually at Gedmatch.com. My mom’s top non-Nicholson match is Radelle. She linked her DNA results at Ancestry to her mother, so that is a little confusing. What that means is that Radelle is actually a 4th cousin to my mom instead of the 3rd cousin once removed that AncestryDNA shows. Radelle and my mom have one shared DNA match, so I sent a message to that match. The match had no Ancestry Tree.

My mom’s next match is with Deborah. She is also on the chart, though she has a lower DNA match. Deborah is on a branch with more connections. However, I didn’t see that Deborah and my Mom have any shared DNA matches.

Now that I have a purple dot for Lentz, I am able to filter by that dot:

Radelle and Deborah were the first two matches with Lentz common ancestors out of eight.

The next match is another Deborah and appears to be the mother of the previous Deborah. She also has no shared matches with my Mom.

Back to George Adam Lentz Born 1770

I’ll need to add an extra level on my chart for the next match. Here is what AncestryDNA shows for the connection:

Of course Ancestry wants me to evaluate the connection. I notice that TL’s tree goes up to a Lantz instead of a Lentz, so that is a little suspicious. The other suspicious part is that by this tree, George would have been 13 years old when Sarah was born. I’ll leave TL off my chart for now. From another tree at Ancestry, here are Sarah’s parents:

There is a probably a connection somewhere, but it doesn’t appear to be here.

John to John

This tree seems more reasonable as it goes up to Eliza Lentz. I’ll be a bit lazy and I won’t evaluate this tree. It is consistent with my chart with the Glenn surname. Here is John added in:

So if this is right, John is Radelle’s second cousin twice removed. It’s nice to have some company on the Eliza Lentz line.

Betty on the William Lentz Line

Betty appears to be related to the two Deborahs:

Another Bogus George Adam Lentz Connection

I had hope for these connections, but they didn’t pan out:

Mary Lantz was born when my ancestor George was 7 years old.

The last person on my list is Al who is already on my Lentz DNA match tree. So of the eight people I identified, 4 were already on the Tree. Two didn’t match by the AncestryDNA suggested genealogy and two were added.

My Mom’s Baker and Faunce Lines

Here is my chart so far:

In a sense my siblings and I are not as important as my mom should have more DNA than we do for these matches. Here is my mom’s top DNA match on that line:

The Baker family was large, so that means many descendants with DNA matches.

Adding Peter and Justin to the Baker DNA Tree

Now I’m up to four Baker Lines. Justin adds another generation going down.

FL On the Catherine Baker Slater Line

I just looked up Annette. She was a match on MyHeritage. FL at AncestryDNA is on that Line also.

This is beginning to look like a real surname DNA project now.

An Older Faunce Match with Lauren

Now I need to figure out how to get Lauren onto this tree. Actually, I need to build a new Faunce Tree:

I just didn’t add all the others under Catherine Faunce from above. Hopefully, I’ll find more matches here also.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I started by comparing my siblings’ common ancestor DNA matches with mine and my mother’s common ancestor DNA matches.
  • This comparison showed that I should look at my siblings’ results.
  • I then saw that my mother must have more common ancestor matches to look at.
  • I looked at two different Philadelphia lines and matches that my mom had showing common ancestors.
  • The two matches my mom had with common ancestors going back to George Adam Lentz didn’t pan out. I would still like to find some matches there – though this is going back to about as far as a DNA match would be expected.

My Mom’s Lentz Family and Roberta Estes’ Lentz Family

Roberta Estes has blogged about her Lentz family. I have also blogged about my Lentz family. Roberta and I have checked to see if there was an autosomal DNA match between our two families, but we were unable to find any significant match. Recently, in checking my 23andMe results, it seems like there may be a way to see if we are related by YDNA.

My Mom’s Lentz Family YDNA

I have tested my DNA at 23andMe and have a few Lentz matches there. One good thing about 23andMe is that when you take an autosomal test, they also give you a rough estimate of your YDNA haplogroup. I have has two Lentz matches at 23andMe who are brothers. They both have this Haplogroup:

I’ve sent off messages to the two brothers. I don’t know exactly how we are related, but based on the size of the autosomal DNA match and where they live, my guess is that our common ancestors must be Jacob George Lentz and Annie Nicholson:

I don’t have record of William Lentz born 1892 as having any sons. William did have a brother named Stanley who had sons, so that may be where the two matches fit in. At any rate, their YDNA would go up through the Lentz side.

What is R-Y4355?

I would expect that 23andMe has an accurate haplogroup though not recent. Here is what YFull has on Y4355:

Above the tree, YFull gives the YDNA Line for this branch of Lentz back to Genetic Adam (listed as Home). This shows that Y4355 is about 4200 years old, so fairly old. I recognize R-U152 in that line as a major branch.

Roberta Estes’ Lentz YDNA

Here is what Roberta has in one of her Blogs:

Roberta has invested in the Big Y test for her Lentz relatives, so this is likely to be extremely accurate and fairly recent. YFull does not have BY39280, but has some information on KMS75:

Actually KMS75 is listed as +1SNPs above. The equivalent at YFull is Y20993 which was formed 4800 years ago. So this particular SNP is not that recent. BY39280 would be more recent but perhaps not by much.

The Short Answer

I would say that based on the 23andMe Haplogroup and the work that Roberta has done, these two families are not related. The common ancestor is R-L23 which was formed 6400 years before present. I’ll draw a tree for the two Lentz families:

I would have thought that Roberta’s Lentz Line would be longer, but it must be an older branch or a branch with less branching in it. So from the top of the tree to the bottom is about 2,000 years, but we still have about 4,000 years to get to the useful genealogical time.

Here is an R1b Tree:

I have an arrow pointing to where my Mom’s Lentz family and Roberta’s Lentz family split. The split goes to Western Altantic for my Mom’s Lentz family and Eastern for Roberta’s Lentz family. Interesting. U152 is a major branch. U152 begins below the ‘ic’ of Atlantic. Checking the YDNA was pretty easy. That concludes the YDNA part of the Blog. Next I’ll add my Lentz autosomal DNA to DNAPainter

Adding Lentz DNA to DNAPainter

I can add the autosomal DNA to DNA Painter for the two Lentz matches I have at 23andMe. Here is one match added to my Lentz/Nicholson common ancestors:

Jereme adds important DNA that I didn’t know about before. I didn’t have any DNA from these two common ancestors previously on Chromosomes 2, 3, 4 and 15. I have less of a match with Jereme’s brother Will:

I’ll paint in Will also even though he doesn’t add new information. Jereme matches me by 95 cM compared to Will’s 72 cM.

Jereme and Will upped my percentage of maternal mapped DNA from 30 to 32%. That is a significant jump at this stage of mapping:

Here is the maternal and paternal side:

I changed Lentz/Nicholson to a sort of pea green because it was the same blue as Clarke on my paternal side. I now have 41% DNA painted overall. I assume that this went up although I didn’t check to see what it was previously.

Summary and Conclusions

  • 23andMe has a useful feature that predicts your YDNA Haplogroup at no extra charge.
  • This feature can be used to see if you are related to male relatives of the same surname. In this case, I was related to two Lentz brothers with a predicted haplogroup. Roberta Estes had Lentz relatives tested for YDNA resulting in a known Haplogroup. I checked on Roberta’s Lentz relative’s YDNA haplogroup and it didn’t match up with my Lentz relative’s Haplogroup. I then found the common Haplogroup for the two Lentz families. The common haplogroup was over 6,000 years old.
  • It would be interesting to see if this could be used in other situations.
  • This Blog was short so I painted the autosomal DNA of my Lentz relatives using DNA Painter.

 

 

 

Sorting My Mom’s DNA with AutoCluster

I already sorted my mom’s DNA with AutoCluster last week. However, since that time, Genetic Affairs has changed the look of their AutoCluster Chart. They now cluster the clusters which makes it easier to tell which ancestral groups go with which

My Mom’s Ancestry

Mom, Gladys’, father is German but his German ancestors lived for quite a while in a German colony in Latvia. His parents were Rathfelder and Gangnus. My mom’s maternal grandfather Lentz was also German but his ancestors had been in Philadelphia since the American Revolution. Gladys’ maternal grandmother was Nicholson. Her family moved to Philadelphia from Sheffield, England.

The First AutoCluster

My first AncestryDNA AutoCluster for my mom looked like this:

  • Thresholds: 20-600 cM
  • Matches: 323
  • Matches not used in clusters: 29
  • Clusters: 48

I started writing a Blog on the results, but didn’t finish. Here is a spreadsheet for the above chart:

These clusters were sorted by the size of the cluster and I didn’t identify the first three clusters.

Mom’s New AutoCluster Results

I expect the new results to be more organized and show where the groups of matches belong compared to the other groups of matches:

  • Thresholds: 20-600 cM
  • Matches: 330
  • Matches not used in clusters: 28
  • Clusters: 49

I used the same thresholds in the new AutoCluster run. The results were similar but now the clusters are organized. Here is the new spreadsheet:

 

I note that Elise and Rowena are in twice. I don’t know if that messes up the results. I didn’t show all the clusters as they go off the page.

Elise shows as being in Clusters 5 and 6 which doesn’t make sense. She doesn’t show in Cluster 5 but shows as a dark gray row to the left and above Cluster 6. Rowena shows as being in her own Cluster 15 which I don’t show above.

Unraveling the Mystery of Mom’s DNA

The unraveling the mystery of mom’s DNA involves trying to figure out which parts of her DNA go with which common ancestors. The common ancestors are the common ancestors of her common matches. Her common matches are grouped together and those groups are grouped together, so let’s get started.

Here are mom’s four grandparent lines:

These shown are the first and 2nd great-grandparent levels. By location, the top two grandparent are Latvia and the bottom two grandparent lines are Philadelphia and Sheffield, England.

Cluster 1: Nicholson/Ellis

Cluster 1 is easy. It is headed up by mom’s 2nd cousin Carolyn on the Nicholson/Ellis Line:

Cluster 38 – Rathfelder

Next, I’ll go all the way down to Cluster 38. I believe that this is a Rathfelder Cluster:

I may only have one Rathfelder Cluster with the two sisters, Astrid and Ingrid.

Mom’s Maternal and Paternal Clusters

The above two Clusters may have set the edge for Mom’s Clusters, but I’ll check in more detail later. Here is my assumption so far:

Again, this is a guess based on two clusters. I will need to check this out. I also will want to try to identify Lentz and Gangnus matches, if possible.

Finding Lentz

Lentz matches have been difficult to find. Here is the Lentz tree with some of the descendant who have had their DNA tested:

The left branch has the closer matches, but they are also half Nicholson. Here is Radelle’s mom at Ancestry:

This is a little confusing because Radelle took the test and her mom, Delores shows in the tree. I became suspicious when I saw that Delores died in 2011. Radelle is in Cluster 32:

 

I now have three of my mom’s grandparents. However, does that mean that Nicholson has 31 Clusters?

More Nicholson

I can fill in one Cluster with Nigel. He has a large match with my mom going back to 1765 in Sheffield, England.

I should have John Nicholson’s wife as my mom could just as easily be sharing her DNA. Here she is:

I’m getting stuck on my mom’s maternal side, so time to switch to paternal:

Otis and Cluster 39

Here is Otis:

Here Otis is 3rd cousin once removed and 4th cousin once removed on my mother’s Rathfelder side. This Chart describes Otis’ relationship to my mom as 5th cousin, once removed on the Gangnus side:

That means the Rathfelder side wins out (I think).

Otis and the Colony Effect

The Colony is effect is this. You put a bunch of Germans in a Colony in Latvia and they want to marry other Germans:

Here is Otis’ Cluster 39 in blue highlighted. Astrid is in the cluster above and to the left of Cluster 39. Otis is the top left match of the blue cluster. He also has shared matches with mom in other clusters below and to the right.

Doing Some Latvian Genealogy

I did a search for Latvia at my mother’s AncestryDNA match page:

Robert shows his maternal grandparents coming from Latvia. That means I could try to do some genealogy on Roberts tree if I want. Robert is also in Mom’s Cluster 45.

The All-Latvia Database

I was able to find the Resch family at:

http://www.lvva-raduraksti.lv

This is a good web site for Latvian research.

The Latvians like to Latvianize names. So I don’t know if Retsch is a German name changed to Recs or if Recs changed to Retsch. I also found Zamuels birthplace and birth date. The last column is place of origin. This shows as Riga for father and son. I usually look for Irsu Pag. which is Hirschenhof. That would link with my ancestors.

Robert has that Alma was born in Dresden, Germany, so I’ll look to Mazur and Rosenbach. I couldn’t find Rosenbach in the list. I did find some Martin’s in the Latvia Inhabitant list:

The closest Martin has his dad as Jēkabs.

A Latvian Secret Weapon

I was ready to give up but remembered I had a book on the Gangnus family. If Robert is related to me through that family, perhaps I could make a connection there.

I left out the bottom where it says Darmstadt 2003.

I looked up Retsch in this book and found one reference:

This reference says that Samual was born March 22, 1872 which is close to the April 3, 1872 I had above. Now all I have to do is make the connections. I have a feeling that the connections go back a way. What the above says is that Samuel married Charlotte Alma who was born 2 March 1867. Her parents were Johann Georg Gangnus and Marie Jacobine Schilling.

I see what happened. Robert had Charlotte Alma Gangnus as Alma Magnus. That makes sense. When I first saw my mother’s grandmother’s name written, I think it was written as Youganis.

Gangnus Production Update

Now I have two Gangnus/Gagnus families:

The good news is that I was about to give up on the Robert tree and then I remembered my Gangnus book. The bad news is that I’m getting lost in all these Gangnus families. However, I am starting to see our trees coming together in a confusing and interesting way.

If I understand this correctly, Robert and I are double 5th cousins. Robert and my mother are double fourth cousins, once removed. The other thing is that Robert is related on my mother’s paternal grandfather’s and grandmother’s side.

In order to display this on my spreadsheet, I added another row for Cluster 45:

Summary and Conclusions

  • The new autoclustering look helped show where the clusters grouped with each other. I wasn’t able to identify many more clusters specifically, but now I know in what area they should belong.
  • I was able to make a guess where my mother’s shared matches went from maternal to paternal
  • I looked at some paternal clusters. However, intermarriage in Hirschenhof, Latvia made it difficult to nail down DNA to a specific grandfather in at least one case.
  • I was able to build out Robert’s tree. Robert was in my mother’s Latvian Cluster 45. I used the All Latvia on-line Directory and a book I had on the Gangnus family in Latvia. However, after all that work, Robert appears to be equally related to my mom on both my mom’s paternal grandfather and grandmother’s sides.

 

 

 

 

 

Fun With an AncestryDNA Lentz Circle

My Lentz Line has been difficult to nail down. The genealogy has been difficult and it has been difficult to assign a lot of DNA to Lentz ancestors

My Lentz Circle at AncestryDNA

Ancestry has been helpful in the Lentz area. Here are my AncestryDNA Circles:

Lentz is one of my smallest circle with 9 members:

Six of those 9 members are from my family. That leaves two other groups with a total of three people in them. In the Deborah Family group, there are two Deborah’s. They appear to be mother and daughter. I built out the tree of the mother and found a common ancestor in John Lentz. Then I found the tree of the daughter Deborah and she had already built out her tree as seen here:

John Lentz is on the younger Debbie’s mother’s father’s father’s line or her great-grandfather Davenport’s Line. This matches up well with my Lentz Web Page:

I was unclear as to whether John had one or two wives. Debbie has identified the wife as Elisabeth Riehl. I didn’t follow the line down of William Andrew. However, I have more information on my Ancestry Tree, which puts my Web Page out of date:

 

Lentz DNA

One interesting thing is that I do not match either Deborah at AncestryDNA. They do, however, match my mother and some of my siblings. Here is my mom’s match with the elder Deborah:

What is more interesting is that the younger Debbie uploaded her DNA results to Gedmatch. This is what the match looks like between Debbie and my Mom:

By DNA, my mom, Gladys and the younger Debbie could be fourth cousins. However, Debbie and her mom match my mom at about the same amount of DNA. That means Debbie’s mom passed down all the Lentz DNA that matches my mom to her daughter. This DNA match is on the shortest Chromosome.

Visual Phasing for My Siblings – Chromosome 22

I performed visual phasing on my DNA. Here is what I had for Chromosome 22:

This matches up with what Gedmatch shows as Debbie’s matches with my family:

In this case the reportable matches start at about 15M, so that is where Jim, Heidi and Lori have Lentz DNA shown in green on the left hand side of my Chromosome 22 map above.

A Lentz DNA Tree

I have drawn a tree of the Lentz descendants who have had their DNA tested. I had missed Debbie, so she is not there yet:

I am on the left side of the tree. I also descend from the Nicholsons and get a lot of matches with that family. The right side of the tree is more specific as I have no Nicholson relatives there, but the relationships are further out. I am already tracking two people from the William Andrew Line there.

Here are the two Deborah’s added in:

This shows that my mom is a fourth cousin to the elder Deborah and I am a 5th cousin to the younger Deborah.

Here is how Debbie matches Radelle, Al and Stephen on Chromosome 12:

This suggests triangulation between these four people which would indicate a common ancestor:

My mom matches Radelle and Deborah, but on different Chromosomes. Hence, the Ancestry Circle.

Painting Debbie’s Match to My Mom

This is what I had previously for my mom’s John Lentz DNA based on her match with Radelle. That match is in dark green.

I need to add Mom’s Lentz DNA to Chromosome 22:

This doesn’t look like much, but it doubles what my mom had on Chromosome 22 previously.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Reviewing my AncestryDNA Circles lead me to a Lentz descendant who I had overlooked.
  • One of the people in the Circle had uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch. I had seen her match before, but didn’t know exactly how we connected on my mother’s line.
  • Because Debbie uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch, I was able to tell exactly where she matches different Lentz descendants.

 

My Closest DNA Match at MyHeritage with Unknown Connection

Blaine Bettinger has a knack for posting polls at the Genetic Genealogy Tips & Techniques Facebook page. A recent one was:

TODAY’S POLL: how much DNA do you share with your closest ‘unknown’ match at MyHeritage? Unknown = you haven’t yet placed them in your tree. 

My Closest Unknown Match: Molly

It turns out my closest match is Molly. She also matches my mom which is a good hint. Here is how Molly matches my mom by DNA:

On interesting thing I just noticed about Molly is that she is age 20 or below. My mom is 96. I am guessing that there could be a two generation gap between Molly and my mom. Molly was born in 2003, so there could even be a three generation difference. Molly has a tree, but her parents and grandparents show as private. I assume that they are all still living. I have sent a message to Molly, so perhaps she will write back.

Shared Matches between Gladys and Molly

MyHeritage shows shared matches between my mom, Gladys, and Molly:

Beth is mom’s second closest unknown match and also matches Molly – though more distantly. Danielle and Bridget show icons which means that they have triangulating DNA. This is specific matching DNA that has come from a common ancestor.

Beth’s Family Tree

Beth has a pretty good family tree:

Here is my mom’s tree:

 

Beth’s Schroek side is from Pennsylvania. My mom’s mom was from Pennsylvania, so my theory right now is that the common ancestor is on my mom’s mom’s side on the bottom side of her above tree.

A Pote Connection

Looking a little more closely at Beth’s family tree, I see a Pote connection. My mom has no Pote in her ancestry, but she does have Nicholson and a collateral line married into the Pote family. That seems like a likely connection. Here is what I have at Ancestry:

This shows the Schroek/Pote/Nicholson connection differently than the tree Beth has.

Here Beth has Martha N. Schroek. Her maiden name by my tree should be Pote. Beth also has Sarah Pote whose maiden name should be Nicholson. So the issue is mainly one of maiden names. However, Beth has Sarah Pote’s father as Sampson Pote, where I believe her father should be William Nicholson who is my mother’s great-grandfather.

Beth must have already been on my radar as here she is in a Nicholson Tree:

Beth shows as a 2nd cousin once removed to my mother.

What About Molly?

I mentioned above that I don’t have Molly’s tree. However, I can make a good guess as to where she is on the tree. Molly is probably at the level of Joshua and has as her ancestor Annie Nicholson born 1865 in Sheffield, England. That would make Molly a 1st cousin, three times removed to my mom.

Here are some statistics:

Molly would be at the top end of a 1st cousin three times removed or in a more reasonable range for a 1st cousin twice removed from my mom.

Going Down Molly and Gladys’ Shared Match List: Annette

Annette is after Beth on Molly and Gladys’ shared match list. It looks like Annette has a good tree with some common ancestors.

This shows that Gladys and Annette share Baker, Faunce and Peol ancestors.

The Philadelphia Bakers

Annette and Gladys are third cousins:

From what I can tell, Conrad Baker was a successful fisherman in Kensington in present day Philadelphia:

Here we see in the 1850 Census: Catherine and Mary and even a Pote. If I have it right, this part of Kensington is called Fishtown today.

Painting the Baker/Faunce common ancestors.

I use DNA Painter to paint common ancestors. Here is what I have for my mom so far:

 

Here’s my mom’s “new” Baker/Faunce DNA in light blue on Chromosomes 3 and 11:

I don’t think this DNA got passed down to me as I didn’t see a match between Annette and me at MyHeritage. This brought my mom’s mapped DNA up from 22% to 23%. On Chromosome 3, the change from brown to blue represents a crossover my mom has from her Nicholson grandparent side to her Lentz grandparent side.

Molly’s Next Shared Match with Gladys: Danielle

The good thing about Danielle is that she triangulates with my mom and Molly:

The area where the triangulation occurs is on Chromosome 3.

Here is Danielle’s tree:

Here is another tree I found at Ancestry:

This was more filled out but was missing Leon Edwards. Ancestry has Danielle and my mom as distant relatives. So it may be difficult to find common ancestors. However, I didn’t see any obvious family name matches to people in my mom’s known ancestry. I’ll just have to wait until later to solve this mystery. Danielle’s ancestors were from the same areas as my mom’s, so the potential is there for finding a common ancestor.

 

Summary and Conclusions

  • A question by Blaine Bettinger lead to some DNA and genealogical research at MyHeritage
  • I didn’t figure out how I am related to Molly but guessed at a relationship to my mom and a possible Nicholson or Lentz ancestry.
  • I re-found Beth with a shared Nicholson ancestry.
  • I found Annette who has an interesting connection to my mom on the Baker/Faunce line from early Kensington in current day Philadelphia. I was able to “paint” this DNA to my mom.
  • I found a person triangulating with Molly and my mom, but was not able to find a common ancestor.