Author: joel@jmhartley.com

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A Butler YDNA Tree

I have been looking at the Whitson/Butler YDNA Project and was interested in how the Butlers might turn out as a tree using the STR results from that project. Here is the section of the Whitson project that has Butlers:

I downloaded this to an excel spreadsheet and then took out the Butler only names and put them into a text file to use in the SAPP Program. SAPP stands for Still Another Phylogenetic Program.

For some reason, I didn’t get all the results the first time.

I tried again and got all five Butler STR results:

Adjusted Genetic Distance

The kit starting with 102 is the most distant Butler relative. That makes sense that he is further away from the last two kits who are my brother-in-law and late father-in-law.

SAPP Tree

Now STRs can be somewhat unreliable and we are comparing two 37 STR tests with three 111 STR tests. What this shows is that the INS Kit is more closely related to my brother-in-law and father-in-law and that the 319 Kit is more closely related to the 102 Kit. I believe that this makes sense, as we are thinking that the INS Kit may share a common ancestor who would be the father of known ancestor Henry Butler born about 1800 in Wexford, Ireland.

Dating

There are dates on the nodes. The Group TMRCA is 1700 AD. That compares well with the more accurate BigY tessting done on the three kits that have 111 STRs.

Here the bottom three are Butlers and their common ancestor is estimated to be 1546 CE. However, there is quite a range given for this. The testers above the Butlers are Whitsons.

The date on Node 8 is 1950 but that is because there is no difference in the first 37 STRs between the three testers. Here is part of the tree that I have based on autosomal testing:

The INS Kit descends from Richard Butler Born 1817 though I don’t have him on the tree. I believe that Adam Butler should be the brother of Henry Butler on my wife’s side of the family. That would make the INS tester 4th cousin once or twice removed to my wife’s father. That means that the actual Node 8 should be around the year 1775.

Node #7

The date for this Node is 1800. This is possible.

A New Tree

I talked to Peter who is on the list. He says there is another person not on the Whitson YDNA Project but on the Butler Project who he thinks he is more closely related to. I added this person in. He has and ancestor named Captain Butler who was dealings with South Africa. This person’s kit starts with IN129:

This person does not seem close to Peter (102) as far as genetic distance in this report. Here is the tree report:

Assuming that this is accurate, it shows that there are four branches going back to 1600. I find it interesting that adding another Kit brings the common ancestor date further back. Of course, again, this is comparing three kits with 37 STRs tested with three kits with 111 STRs tested. At this point, it appears that BigY testing from one of the two BigY untested kits in yellow row of three would be helpful.

The SAPP Program allows to enter SNPs. I added the BigY SNPs, but this did not change the results:

Based on this, it appears that the two non-BigY tested kits could have their own SNP branches. The SAPP website says:

Boxes are connected by lines of varying thickness, indicating how confident SAPP is in those connections. There are three “levels” of confidence – thick blue lines based on unambiguous STR, SNP, or Genealogy data; thinner blue lines based on less certain data (often on STR data alone), or thin grey lines where SAPP made what it thought was the best decision among several close choices without clear SNP or Genealogy support.

I am not sure why adding the SNP data gives a more certain connection in the upper left of the chart.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It was helpful to use a STR program to try to determine if there was any affinity for Butler family groups within Family A of the Butler YDNA project under I2a2a.
  • When I added an additional Kit to the mix, the common ancestor for the group went from 1700 to 1600. That tells me that, based on this analysis, the additional person could be more distantly related. In fact, that appears to be the case based on the adjusted Genetic Distance Chart above.
  • Keep in mind that STRs can be fickle and can mutate up or down and can be misleading.
  • STR testing as obtained in the BigY test is always to be preferred over STR testing for YDNA, but where STR testing is available, it is good to make use of tools such as SAPP.

 

 

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A Sligo Fraser Family – Related to Our Frazers?

I recently had a request from Frazer researcher Joanna. She has been in touch with a person who thinks his branch of Frasers from Sligo may related to ours. Joanna wants me to look at the DNA matches to see if this may be true.

A YDNA Match

This person has taken a YDNA test and according to Joanna he tested as R-R152. Joanna could not find this group and thinks he may have meant R-U152 which sounds like a Haplogroup I have heard of.

Here is the overview for the Fraser YDNA Project:

I do not know if Ian is on this web page, but I see 6 mentions of R-U152 on that page:

I went through all 6 mentions of R-U152, but none of them had the Fraser/Frazer surname. That could mean that the Haplogroup is wrong or that Ian is not part of the Fraser and Septs Project.

Here are my Frazers:

This is a fairly small group under R1a1. I count 10 Frazers in this group. However, a good percentage have taken the BigY test. The header for the group says there are 2393 members, but I only see 1634 Lines of data and many do not have the Frazer surname. For example:

  • Fraser is mentioned 261 times
  • Frazier is mentioned 114 times
  • Frazer is mentioned 43 times
  • Frasier is mentioned 14 times

Keep in mind that these numbers may be a little high if you have a Frazer name and a Frazer ancestor listed, that would make for two mentions of the name. However, that could be somewhat offset as there is a Fraser, Dingman and Barker in our project and all of them we know to be in the Frazer group.

R-U152

AI Overview

Adventures in Ancient YDNA: R1b> U152>L2 to Celtic FGC22501 ...

Haplogroup R-U152 (also known as S28) is a major Y-chromosome paternal lineage. It formed roughly 4,500 years ago during the Bronze Age, descending from R-P312. It is strongly associated with the Alpine Celts, ancient Italo-Celtic peoples, and Roman expansion, with high concentrations today in Italy, France, Switzerland, and parts of the UK and US. 

Further, our Frazer group is:

R-U152 is from the R1b family which is vastly different. According to AI, R1a and R1b had a common ancestor between 20,000 and 25,000 years ago.

Hugh’s YDNA

Joanna also asked about Hugh. He had taken a YDNA test in 2017. Although his ancestors lived in County Sligo, he is believed to be from a separate branch of Frazers also. Here are Hugh’s 111 STR results:

Here is the Nevgen predictor. All I have to do is to add in the 111 values:

I hope I got the numbers right:

Now I hit the calculate button:

This is not very helpful. The top tells me R1b and I don’t know how to read the bottom.

Here is another prediction, but it is valid only for 67 STRs:

Here is what FTDNA shows:

Here is what YBrowse shows:

Assuming that FGC9798 is correct and that the yfull_node is FGC9780, I see this at the Big Tree web site:

Some of those Haplogroups, I recognize from my own Hartley YDNA.

Here is where I am at FTDNA:

I am at the bottom and apparently diverged from Hugh at Z16357.

Summary and Conclusions

  • While reviewing FTDNA Fraser and Septs group, I found out some interesting things. For one, not as many Frasers/Frazers have tested for YDNA as is shown in the summary.
  • The person my friend mentioned cannot match our small branch of Frazers. Our Branch is associated with Scandinavia until around the time of Christ. Ian’s branch is more associated with Celtic people.
  • I also looked at Hugh who has Sligo Frazer ancestry. He is not related by DNA to my small North Roscommon, South Sligo Frazer group.

 

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Anastasia and Adam Butler Born Around 1800 Wexford, Ireland

I have interest in Anastasia and Adam Butler based on my wife’s Butler genealogy.

Anastasia ThruLines

One Butler researcher supposed that the father of Anastasia was George Butler. This is reflected in the ThruLines for my wife’s late Aunt Lorraine:

I am not sure how my Butler researcher friend came up with George as the ancestor. However, it appears that Henry Butler named his first son George. Adam was also a popular name. Henry mentions that George is also known as Adam in the baptismal record:

We know Adam better as George who moves to Cincinnati, Ohio.

Here is Lorraine’s late sister VIrginia’s ThruLines:

Adam Butler’s Connection

Here is part of my Butler DNA Tree:

Again, I am not sure of the George at the top. That could also be an Adam Butler.

I found James as a shared match with someone on the right side of the tree (not shown) named Patty. I found Marie from a match at MyHeritage. Now, if I know the first male child of Adam and the second male child of Anastasia, I may have a good guess as to who the father of Adam and Anastasia were.

The Genealogy – Patrick and Will Back to Anastasia Butler

It looks like I may have not connected these trees in my Ancestry Tree. I will need to do this properly. I will create a floating tree for Patrick. Here is his tree on his paternal side:

The Hanrahan (nee Butler) should be Anty or Anastasia. Perhaps the tree has been changed. I will start with Patrick’s father Will as he is a match also. I suspect the jump from England back to Ireland could be difficult. I am not easily finding records for Will’s father, so I will assume that Will knew who his grandparents were. I will accept the Ancestry hints as they are what Will has. Here is a bit of detail from the Evening Express on Adam dated 20 December 1934:

Poor Adam died at the age of 49. Here is Bootle:

Here is the marriage of Adam and Bridget:

In 1901, Adam is living with his Uncle William who was a widower:

Here is the previous page of the 1901 Census:

This Census leads me to believe that Richard and William were brothers and Uncles of Adam, but that also seems to contradict Adam’s wedding record.

However, Will’s tree has William as Adam’s father. Here is an 1891 Census that has a William Hanrahan with a Thomas as a father:

I do see that the Adam’s marriage record has his father as William and his mother as Margaret.

In 1911, Adam is in a Royal Naval Hospital:

Here is Adam in 1921:

Now Adam is out of work and living in the house of his Aunt Anastasia who was born in Wexford, Ireland.

Here is a birth for Adam William Hanrahan in the 2nd quarter of 1887:

The three likely siblings are:

  • Anastasia – 64 in 1921 (widow) so likely born in Wexford in 1857
  • William – 37 in 1901 (widower) so likely born in 1864 said to be Liverpool
  • Richard – 40 in 1901, married to Margaret so liikely born in 1961 in Liverpool

I see the mistake I made. Adam is listed as Anastasia’s nephew which does not rule out his being William’s son. In fact as Adam is listed under WIlliam, that likely indicates that he is William’s son. Good.

This record gives the family name of William’s wife:

Here is the family in 1881:

William is now born in Ireland.

This is an update on my floating tree:

The proposed father ot Adam is Richard and I did find a Richard on one of the Census records above.

The death record for Adam broadens his birth range:

This looks like Adam’s Marriage in Wexford:

Here is an interesting birth record:

I don’t imagine that Sidon is a proper name, so Adam could be correct.

The writing is quite poor. The A of Adam is going into the crack of the page. Here we are, finally to Anty or Anastasia Butler.

This is the information I can easily glean from Ancestry:

Anastasia has a son Adam which may or may not reflect her father’s name. I am interested in when Anastasia was born, but that information appears to be missing:

Perhaps Anastasia married around 1825.

Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI

I found this:

I’m not sure if Anne Butler is related. Mary Sinnott is standing in for her. Recall that George Butler of Cincinnati married a Margaret Sinnott as his second wife after first having a child with her out of wedlock before his first marriage.

More importantly on the same page, I found on the same page:

Anty’s maid of honor or whatever was Eleanor Lambert and Richard’s was Adam – perhpas his brother?

Here is my Butler DNA tree again:

Notice I have an Adam Butler married to Magaret Lambert.

Not too long after:

Henry’s best man is Martha? Well, witness.

A possible relative:

Going back to 1821:

How Does Neil Fit In?

Neil is a perfect match at 37 STRs on a YDNA test:

However, the 37 test is a low level test and not very accurate. Neil lists his ancestor as Richard Butler born in 1817 in Wexford.

In an email from 2 years ago, Neil says he has a match to Marie at 23.2 vM. Marie also matches my wife’s late Aunt Lorraine:

Here is Marie on my Butler DNA Tree:

Marie has this paternal side tree:

Marie has a shared match with Lorraine named Kerrie. Here is Kerrie’s maternal side tree:

Kerrie’s great-grandmother is listed as Mary Butler. Now I need another floating tree for Kerrie. Here are Kerrie’s grandmother with parents and siblings in 1926:

Here is Mary in 1901 with her parents and siblings:

This Walter is in Marie’s tree. Unfortunately, I do not have Marie’s tree in my tree. Poor Walter gets squeezed to the bottom of the page in May of 1854:

I would not like to make a guess as to the sponsors.

Some nice person posted a photo of Wexford:

I don’t know how many Walter Butlers were roaming around Wexford at the time, but this is likely Walter:

Here is Walter Butler’s father’s marriage:

Catherine is born in November 1856:

I have seen the name Wade around.

Richard’s baptismal record is not clearly written:

The Ancestry hint does not match my Butler DNA Tree:

However, this hint appears to be from County Roscommon.

From here, I can add in children:

This is George born 1822. I did have an Anne Butler marriage shown above in this Blog.

Adam and Margaret make the bottom of the page for their June 1815 wedding:

At this point, I have two Adam Butlers in my tree, so I need to combine them.

This appears to be a mistake:

I take this to be Margaret, not Mary Lambert.

I don’t know how old Adam was when he got married, but if he was 25, he would be born in 1790.

I was trying to show that Adam, Anastasia and Henry named their children a certain way to show who their father was:

Adam’s first son appears to be Richard, which favors the name of Richard for his father. Also recall that there are gaps in the Baptismal Records for Wexford Town during this time period:

That means that it could be difficult to trace Adam further back. That being the case, it will be necessary to infer the parents names by the naming patterns of the children and by DNA matches. Once likely parents’ names are found, then it may be possible to find marriages for those names.

Normally, I would add Kerrie to my Butler DNA tree, but that tree is on my desktop and I am on my laptop which only has an older version of that tree.

Kerrie descends from Mary Butler.

Kerrie is three generations down from Mary Butler born in 1886, so would be on a level with James.

Kerrie’s DNA

The DNA that Lorraine and Kerrie share should represent their two common ancestors. These, right now would be George Butler and his wife. However, I believe that George could have also been an Adam.

The DNA that these two share is on Chromosome 4:

Here is the match that I have between Marie and Lorraine currently believed to represent the DNA of George Butler or his wife:

Next, I will add in the DNA from Kerrie:

Notice that the matches between Lorrain and Kerrie and Lorraine and Marie do not overlap. However, Lorraine’s matche with Kerrie overlaps with her match with James who I have descending from George Butler (identified in green on DNA Painter). The overlap in DNA matches is significant as it shows triangulation. Triangulation is virtual proof that these matches share a common set of ancestors.

Summary and Conclusions

  • From previous DNA and genealogical research, I have proposed that Adam, Anastasia and Henry Butler are siblings
  • I had this relationship represented in my Butler DNA tree but not in my genealogical tree at Ancestry
  • I added the Adam Butler Line to my Tree at Ancestry
  • I focused on a match that I did not have in my Butler DNA tree. Kerrie shared a DNA match with my wife’s late Aunt Lorraine.
  • I added that match to Lorraine’s DNA profile as DNA from their common ancestor believed to be George or Adam Butler.
  • The Match between Lorraine and Kerrie overlapped with a match Lorraine had with James from the same Adam Butler line. This represents a sure sign of a pair of common ancestors. It also indicates that DNA would be from one of those two ancestors but does not indicate which one.
  • More work needs to be done identifying DNA matches and cataloguing the genealogical connection between those matches.
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The Civil War Pension Application for Mary Crowley Butler

Recent research by my wife’s Butler family has uncovered an interesting 41 page document with a lot of information from the National Archives. This is for Mary Crowley Butler’s Civil War Pension application following the death of her husband Edward Butler.

I had left of my last Blog with an Affadavit by Mary Crowley Butler’s sister and cousin.

Page 14

This appears to be an application for a disability for an injury that Edward Butler sustained on the USS Rose resulting in Rheumatism. It appears that this was issued on October 15, 1891. However, Edward died two months later on December 16th. This appears to be signed over to his widow.

Page 15

Following Edward’s death, Mary is living at what looks like 294 – 4th Street in South Boston.

Page 16

More paperwork:

Of interest to me is that Mary is living with her sister Julia Lahey. Here is Julia in 1900, but I have not found Mary in 1900.

The family is at 72 Dorchester Street in South Boston.

Page 19

Proof of Edward’s death:

I do not think his age of 51 would be correct. Edward states elsewhere in the application that he enlisted in the Navy in San Francisco and served around the years 1851 to 1852. If Edward was 51 in 1891 he would have been born in about 1840 and about 11 when he joined the Navy.

Page 21

A letter was submitted from St. John certifying Edward Butler and Mary Crowley’s marriage:

Page 22

Edward is awarded a disability of $6 in August of the same year he died.

The address given for Richard is where his funeral service is held at the end of the year. His sister Anna owns the building at 220 California Street, Newton at the time.

Page 23

This Declaration for an Original Disability Pension has a few iteresting features. It gives a more reasonable age of 60 for Edward. A physical description is given of Edward. Edward does not write as he signs his name with an X.

A witness is Walter Cody. This is interesting as a Walter Coady was a witness at his wedding. I think this is Walter’s baptismal record from Wexford, Ireland:

Here is Walter’s Naturalization record fro 1889:

I imagine that Walter could have been a childhood friend of Edward. He is not obviously a close relative, though we would need to know the names of his grandparents for that.

Page 24

This is a continuation of Page 23 introducing a new character witness, William Harrigan.

William has known Edward for only 10 years, so perhaps not a relative. Here is where William lived in 1890:

Salem Street is a main street in the North End of Boston.

Page 25

Edward seems more sure about the ship name and travel to Japan than he does of the time frame. Here is an AI overview of my question about this Affidavit:

This would have been about 40 years prior to Edward’s Affidavit.

Page 27

This appears to be a medical analysis:

Seems a shame all this was happening so close to when Edward died, but I think it was good they were doing this for the sake of his wife Mary.

Page 28

Kind of a funny form. I think there was supposed to be a mark where the problem was, but I don’t see any.

Page 29

Here is a rejected application. This gives some detail about his accident aboard the USS Rose. This also gives his address as of July 25, 1885. This also seems to relate to Page 5 from the previous Blog.

Page 31

Here are some more details of Edward’s inury, recuperation and ship mates. These are some of the people that Edward must have remembered from the Milwaukee and Tug Rose:

  • Captain Maddox
  • Andrew Strugler?
  • Geo. Hannum?
  • James Toles
  • John Slater

The last four were on the Tug Rose and could corroborate his fall if he knew where they were in 1885. We also found out he was treated on a hospital ship for six weeks he calls tin clad but he does not know the name. He also was treated in Pensacola:

He was also treated at Itasca? between Mobile and Pensacola.

Page 32

There are two more witnesses – William Norie and William Harrigan from Charlestown.

Page 34

Here is a letter from 27 October 1885 to the Commissioner of Pensions from the Treasury Department:

Next Page:

This auditor was asked to look into Edward’s service in the Civil War and this is what he came up with:

  • August 16, 1864 – enlisted and served as landsman on the Grampus until August 21, 1864
  • August 22, 1864 – served on the Great Western until August 27, 1864
  • August 28, 1864 – Served on the Milwaukee as landsman until August 31
  • September 1, 1864 – Served as Bos’n Mate on the Milwaukee until April 13, 1865
  • April 14, 1865 – Served as a landsman on the Rose until April 30, 1865
  • May 1, 1865 – Served as Bos’n Mate on the Rose until July 30, 1865
  • July 31, 1865  – Served as landsman on the Portsmouth
  • August 1, 1865 – Served as Bos’n Mate on the Portsmouth when he was discharged

This is very detailed. I am struck by how short some of his times of service were. He served two days on the Portsmouth and one day each as landsman and Bos’n Mate!

Page 37

There were no journals found for the ships mentioned in the previous letter. I assume that this was the problem with the application and why it was denied.

Page 38

More problems for the application. While the Navy does not deny that the fall occurred and that Edward broke two ribs, they cannot find any present evidence of it. He is a healthy, strong, flexible man. Here, Edward is said to be 51. I believe he was born in 1832, so he should have actually been 53. Page 38 seems to be the last important page of the Widow’s Pension Application.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Edward’s 1885 application for a disablity is denied
  • By 1891, he has developed rheumatism and gets a disability approved
  • This works out good for his widow as she then recieves a pension
  • Much detail is known about Edward’s on year of service in the Civil War between August 1864 and August 1865.
  • The record confirms Edward’s marriage to Mary Crowley in St. John, New Bruswick.
  • The record has some interesting information on Edward serving in the Navy around 1851-2 on the St. Lawrence on a trip from San Francisco to Japan> None of this has been substantiated, but it appears tha the St. Lawrence ship did not sail to Japan.
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Some New Butler Genealogy Developments

It seems like my wife’s side of the family has been going strong in pursuing the family Butler genealogy lately. My brother-in-law has found some very interesting information from NARA concerning Edward Butler’s Civil War service. This information was taken down due to pension applications. The first application was for Edward and the second was for for his wife Mary Crowley Butler after Edward’s death in 1891 in Boston.

The results of my brother-in-law’s inquiry is here:

We have conducted a search of record series Case Files of Approved Pension Applications of Widows and Other Dependents of Navy Veterans, ca. 1861–ca. 1910 (RG 15, Entry A1 8) and located the pension file for Butler, Edward and his widow, Mary Butler online at: Approved Pension Application File for Dependents of Edward Butler (Certificate No. 7162). The 41 page file can be searched and downloaded for free using the attached link. 

We hope this information is of assistance. Feel free to contact us if you have further questions concerning our records or about potential research at the National Archives at Washington D.C in the future. You can find additional information on our website at: https://www.archives.gov/dc.

The context of the first hyperlink is that the documents relate to Edward Butler’s widow Mary Butler who was seeking a pension as a result of the death of her veteran husband.

A Surprise Visit to San Francisco and Japan

It appears that as part of the application, there is a statement from Edward Butler that he was in the Navy a for a year around 1851-1852:

The above is page 25/41 from the file.

I like my wife’s niece’s transcription:

“I enlisted in the Navy at Cincinnati Ohio Aug. 16, 1864. Served in Gt Western, Milwaukee, Osage, [Itaska?] & tug Rose. From which I was discharged Aug. 1, 1865, and had no other service in the Army or Navy during the war of 1861–5.

I was in the Navy before the war. I enlisted in San Francisco Cal about 1851 and went to Japan in the “St Lawrence” and was discharged at San Francisco Cal about 1852 after one year’s service.”

This affadivit raises a lot of questions.

  • What was Edward doing in San Fransisco when his family was in Cincinnati?
  • How did Edward get from Ireland to San Fransisco and then to St. John, New Brunswick?
  • Why was the St Lawrence ship in Japan?
  • What was San Francisco and Japan like in 1851/1852?

Here is an AI answer to what San Franciso was like at the time:

AI Overview

In 1851, San Francisco was a chaotic, booming Gold Rush tent-and-shack city undergoing explosive growth, devastating fires, and rapid physical expansion. 

Population and Demographics

      • Boomtown numbers: The population hovered between 30,000 and 60,000 shifting constantly as tens of thousands of fortune-seekers arrived by sea. [1, 2]
      • Global mix: History of San Francisco notes that immigrants from China, France, Germany, Ireland, Chile, and the Eastern U.S. flooded the area, creating a heavily male-dominated society with very few women. 

The Harbor and Buried Ships

      • Abandoned fleets: Hundreds of ships sat abandoned in the harbor because their crews deserted them to chase gold.
      • Landfill expansion: As noted by San Francisco Harbor at Yerba Buena Cove, residents filled Yerba Buena Cove with sand, rubble, and these old abandoned ships to expand the shore, turning vessels into saloons, hotels, and warehouses. 

Catastrophic Fires

      • The Great Fire of 1851: Occurring on May 3–4, this was the most destructive of several massive blazes, destroying up to three-quarters of the city, burning 2,000 buildings, and causing millions in damage. 
      • Rebuilding in brick: Frequent fires forced the city to start replacing wooden shacks with thick-walled, fireproof brick buildings featuring iron shutters. 

Society and Daily Life

      • High cost of living: Daily expenses averaged around $5 to $16 a day, balanced by high wages for physical labor.
      • Lawlessness: Violent crime, waterfront robberies, and brawls were common, and the local police force faced widespread accusations of corruption and ties to criminal gangs. [1, 2]

It sounds like a chaotic place. I wonder if Edward went there in search of gold?

My wife’s brother looked into this as did I. There was an expedition by Matthew Perry in 1852 and anotther in 1854 to Japan. However, there were no boats in the fleet named the St. Lawrence. The St. Lawrence was in the Pacific at this time going up and down the Western coast of the Americas and going as far as Hawaii, but not known to go to Japan. That means that Edward either got Japan wrong or the name of the ship, the St. Lawrence, wrong.

Here is page 26 of the documents:

The statement was taken on May 18, 1891. Edward was said to be 61 at the time. That would put his birth at 1830 or 1831. That puts into question his baptism as Adam in 1839 and makes more sense. If he was 61 in 1891, he would have been 21 in 1851. This would also put him closer to his brother George’s 1826 birth.

It appears that there was an Elizabeth or Eliza born to the family in March 1830, so Edward was likely born at least 9 months after this date.

Here he is:

He is baptized in Wexford on 29 March 1832. I assume to avoid confusion with his father Henry, he goes by Henry. Henry is carried as a second name as well as with his son Edward Henry born in 1875.

Other Pages of the Pension Application

Here is Page 4 of 41:

This is an application for Edward as a Navy invalid filed August 6, 1890. That places Edward Butler at this address at that time:

That is interesting because the 1890 Census taken on June 2, 1890 places Edward in Newtonville:

Most documents other than City Directories refer to Edward without the H. This one includes the H in his name. In this Blog, I go into some detail as to where Edward lived in Boston. I do not see him living on any street starting with an M. Perhaps this was one more place that he lived or that the mailing addresss was different from where he lived.

The 1890 Boston Directory has Edward living at Erin Alley in East Boston:

This was near Maverick Street refered to in the Invalid Application above. Acually the above could be Maverick Square, but the writing is unclear.

Application Rejected

Here is Page 5 of 41:

I see a rejected stamp on it. This application was filed July 25, 1885 and the P.O. at that time was 2 Emmet Place, Boston, MA. This address agrees with my earlier Blog mentioned above.

Mary Butler’s Widow Application

This is dated June 15, 1892 and places Mary at 294 4th Street, South Boston.

This address is near D Street. This indicates that Mary was living with her Crowley relatives at this time.

Joseph L Crowley dies at this address in 1894. Joseph was Mary’s nephew from her youngest brother William Crowley:

Page 8 of the file closes out Mary’s $8 pension due to her death:

Here is Page 9:

Edward was a boatswain mate and appears to have had a $6 pension. Here is an AI overview:

So he was the guy with the loud whistle.

Here are the ships he was on:

Page 10 shows we had the right marriage date and place:

I would question Mary’s age of 50:

That would put her birth at 1841 and her marriage at age 14. Mary was actually 53 at the time of this document.

Page 11, Julia Lahey is the witness to the application:

Julia is Mary’s younger sister:

Mary’s first daughter appears to be named for her.

Page 12

Some background information from two people who have known Mary for 40 years: her sister and her cousin.

Catherine Gallagher is her cousin.

Basically they say the know Mary and knew Edward. The family is poor, have no property and Mary has to go out to do washing to support herself. Edward and Mary have only been married once.

Here is Gold Street where Catharine Gallagher lived around the corner from Mary:

Who Was Catharine Gallagher?

I think I will look into Catharine and then continue on in another Blog.

According to the 1892 Boston Directory, there was an Edward Gallagher living at 168 Gold Street:

After some searching, I see Edward in the 1900 Census:

This gives a lot more information. They have been married for 26 years, so that means they married around 1874. Catharine arrived in the US around 1874, so I assume that they married in the US at that time. Catharine has 5 children.

Next, I’ll add Edward to my tree as a floating tree. Here is a record from July 31, 1884:

It appears that two twin children of this couple pass away at two months old. If the address is the same today as then, they would have been in Charlestown.

Here is some further information from a tree at Ancestry:

Here is one of the references from that tree:

So Catharine is related on the Donovan side. Ancestry suggests these parents for Catharine:

Here is where things get more complicated. Ancestry’s hint has this marriage in St. John:

Now I assume that Lane was Catherine’s married name.

Here is an interesting view of the Ancestry researched tree that I am looking at:

Here is the tree that I have:

I have the same Bartholowmew Donovan with a different wife. That must mean that Peter and Ellen Donovan were siblings. That would mean that, assuming that these two trees are fairly accurate, that Mary and Catharine would have been first cousins.

I had trouble finding Catherine’s death record at Ancestry, but found it at American Ancestors:

We see that Peter Donovan and Catherine Sullivan were her parents according to the death record, but there was no informant. If Catherine was 45 in 1904 that would put her birth around. 1859. However, the tree above has Catherine born in 1848.

Who Were the Parents of Ellen and Catharine Donovan?

More specifically, we have agreement on the father but not on the mother. For some reason, it appears that Ellen mother being Mary Crowley does not seem as likely as Catherine Sullivan.

Ellen Donovan Sullivan dies in Boston in 1883 and her parents are listed as Bartholomew and Mary:

I see this as my reference for Mary Crowley:

Perhaps this is the wrong Ellen, daughter of Bartholomew? Or the other researcher got the wrong Catherine?

Finally, I see this entry in the Ancestry Tree I am looking at:

This Ellen Crowley must be our Ellen and is the sponser for Catherine Donovan. Based on this, I would like to say that Butler ancestor Ellen is the sponsor for Catherine.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I started with an interesting revelation that Edward Butler was in the Navy around 1851-2 in San Francisco and said that he travelled to Japan. This was on Page 24 of the Widow’s pension application
  • I then went through from the beginning of the application.
  • Julia Lahey, Mary Crowley’s sister and Catharine Gallagher, Mary’s cousin gave affadavits. I found out that Catherine was born Catharine Donovan and was the daughter of Peter Donovan. Peter was Mary’s mother Ellen’s brother.
  • Catharine lived around the corner from Mary when she gave the affadavit.
  • Both Peter and Ellen have Bartholomew Donovan as their father but there is some confusion as to the mother was or if they had the same mother.

 

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Anna Eliza Butler and 220 California Street, Newton, MA

I am still grateful to my wife’s niece for finding Anna Eliza Bultler. I suspect it was not easy to find her. I wrote a Blog about her here, but wanted to look into her a little more. Somehow, niece Tina looked into the owner of the house at 220 California Street and found the owner to be Anna Eliza Butler. Anna had married a Smith in New Brunswick apparently and then remarried a Wharton who lived also at 220 California Street. Other Butlers lived at this address and my wife’s immigrant Ancestor who was Edward Butler and the brother of Anna was waked at this address.

220 California Street

I am not sure how easy it would be to reasearch this address sitting at home at my laptop, but I will give it a try.

Here is the street view shown at Google Maps. I assume this is the right house. The Assessor’s Office shows this as a three family building and there appears to be additional parking to the right of the house.

Here’s a Newton Assessor’s map:

I was hoping for a book and page number but didn’t see one:

Here is the previous owner:

But I need to go back further than that. 1891 would be a good date as that is when Edward Butler died and had his wake at the address.

The Assessor’s have the building built in 1890:

According to AI the legal reference is for book and page. I just didn’t see the slash which is the separation between book and page. I’ll try the earlier reference.

Above is a pretty low quality image referring to an earlier document in 1956.

Here is part of another document that is easier to read:

I see now that the 1956 date above was probably 1986. I’ll take a look at the 1947 deed. Unfortunately, the records from the Middlesex South Office of deeds don’t go back that far. I’m hoping FamiySearch can help me.

I’m not sure they have all the records:

I’ll try grantor for Casale:

This is a bit confusing:

Here is something:

So here, it appears that the grantor is the widow of Dominick Casali or Casale and the grantee is John J Casale. This refers to a Lot 7, California Street.

The previous page has other records:

It looks like Dominick and his wife take out a mortgage for a California Street property in 1920.

I am not sure how niece Tina figured out that Anna Eliza Smith was the owner of the property at 220 California Street.

I did find an Anna Smith in the Grantee Index:

This looks like an Anna E. Smith buys a Lot 7 on California Street from Sophronia Allison. So what I have are records from 2000 and 2001 for 220 California Street. They refer to a 1947 deed. That deed refers to a Lot 7 on California Street. Then I found an Anna E Smith, grantee of Lot 7 California Street on April 2, 1889. It would seem too coincidental for two Anna E Smiths to be involved with this same property.

Perhaps I can find the deed:

This could be the link. Apparently it is not on Page 37. I am guessing it is 370 something. The deed is actually on page 379:

The property was sold for $1 “…and other valuable considerations”. The grantor aslo agreed to pay back taxes. That to me, indicates a close relationship. The deed also mentions an Albert Allison as conveying the land to Anna. This would be Sophronia’s son Albert Butler Allison.

Also of importance is a plan of land to be recorded. This plan contained a “… lot numbered seven (7) on a “Plan of land in Newton belonging to Mrs. S.C. Allison, E.S. Smilie surveyor to be recorded with Middlesex South District Deeds…”. So it sounds like this lot was newly subdivided.

Anna’s Sale of the Property

Perhaps the sale was under her husband’s name?

I am assuming the sale was before 1896:

Nothing under Wharton:

That leaves Smith. But I’ll check one last Wharton up to 1890:

Here is Anna on the Grantor Index:

I’m not sure what all this means as it looks like the propert went back and forth between Anna Smith and Sophronia Allison on the same day. Let’s look at the deeds.

Book 1900 Page 381 Anna to Sophronia

This is quite complicated with Anna selling the property to Sophronia for $1400 and then there is a mortgage with stipulations.

Book 19 Page 383

I hope this clarifies things.

This is basically the same document as the previous one but it is for $500 instead of $1400.

The margin of Page 384 refers to a Discharge reference in Book 2558, Page 347:

is

The second page has a bonus document. I take this to mean that 8 years after Anna takes out this mortgage, it was taken over by James B. Woodward. I assume that Woodward then takes over the property. This is in fact found a few pages earlier on Page 344 in the same Book:

This is now from 1897. However, Anna E Smith marries Joseph Wharton in 1890, so would she not be Anna E Wharton. In the document this Anna E Smith is said to have no husband. Was that meant that her husband died or that this Anna never married? Also, if her husband Joseph Wharton had died, then wouldn’t she then be known as Anna Wharton?

Who Was Sophronia Allison?

It would be nice to know Sophronia’s maiden name. Here it is:

There it is. I am thinking that Sophronia had some money. At least she had a fancy tombstone. Here are Sophronia’s parents listed on her death record:

That means that Sophronia was certainly not Anna E’s sister. Unless we have the wrong Anne E.

In 1855, Sophronia was living with the Coles in Watertown:

Thaddeus was listed as a blind gentleman.

This is likely the Billerica record of Samuel and Mary’s marriage:

Samuel was an early resident of Leominster:

That means I am stuped as to why a Butler woman born in Leominster to an American family would sell a property to an immigrant Butler born in Wexford, Ireland.

In 1880, Sophronia lived at 234 California Street, Newton:

Confusingly, there were Butlers living at 220 California Street also at that time.

John Butler was a widower living with his two sons and a daughter.

Any More on Anna E Butler Smith Wharton?

This appears to be her at 220 California Street in 1901:

I see this record in Ancestry:

I also see this at FamilySearch:

These are all under Smith. I don’t think that Administration is correct as that happens after the time of death. I don’t think that the FamilySearch records go as high as #71042. At any rate, I was unable to find that record online.

A Chronology for Anna E Smith

  • Anne Eliza Smith is baptized in Wexford in 1842
  • Anna makes her way to New Brunswick, probably St. John
  • Anna marries a George Smith and has a son Henry in New Brunswick about 1871
  • George, Anna and her son Henry appear to be living in Watertown according to the 1880 Census, although Anna is listed as Mary
  • Anna’s husband George dies between 1880 and 1885
  • 1885 – Anna E Smith is boarding at Mrs. M. Moody’s house in Newton
  • 1887 – Anna E Smith is living at Crescent Street near California in Nonantum
  • 1889 – Anna is living at Crescent Street according to the Directory of that year, though it may have been a little behind
  • 1889 Joseph Wharton is living at Crescent Street. I wonder if this was the same house as the 220 California Street house?
  • Apr 2 1889 – Anna buys the property at 220 California Street. I assume that she moves there at that time
  • October 2, 1890 – Anna marries Joseph Wharton a gardener.  She gives her age as 41 but would have been 48. They were both living at 220 California Street prior to their marriage.
  • 16 Decembert 1891 – Anna’s brother Edward Butler dies and the funeral is held at 220 California Street
  • The 1895 Newton Directory shows Joseph Wharton, gardener and George H Smith, florist living at 220 California Street. I assume Anna was also living there.
  • April 30, 1897 – Anna E. Smith, unmarried woman, sells 220 California Street to James B. Woodward
  • 1901 – The Newton Directory lists a Mrs. Ann E Smith living at 220 California Street
  • August 28, 1917 – Anna Eliza Butler Smith Wharton dies a widow in Watertown at her nephew George Butler’s house

Summary and Conclusions

  • There seems to be a lot of information about Anna Eliza Butler Smith Wharton
  • The marriage to Joseph Wharton did not last long and it appears that Anna reverted to her Smith name.
  • Anna is associated with my wife’s immigrant ancestor Edward Butler. She hosted his funeral. Edward’s son hosted Anna’s funeral in 1917 in Watertown.
  • A lot of information is missing also. I could not find where Anna lived in 1900 or 1910. I could not find the death record for her second husband. I could not find her will.

 

 

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My Wife’s Aunt Elaine’s Ancestry Ellis DNA Matches

I am the administrator for my wife’s Aunt Elaine’s DNA at Ancestry. Recently, I got notifications that she had close matches, so I thought that I would take a look. I am not sure who the close matches are, but I can look at her ThruLines.

The Genealogy

Here is Aunt Elaine’s Tree:

The major lines are:

  • Ellis – Prince Edward Island roots
  • Rayner – also PEI
  • Uphsall –  Newfoundland
  • Daley – Nova Scotia

She has Canadian Maritime ancestry.

Elaine’s ThruLines

from Elaine’s grandfather siblings’ descendants, Elaine has 27 DNA matches. That is a lot. Actually, I missed some matches off the right:

Here are 14 more matches for a total of 41 matches.

Here is what I have for an Ellis DNA tree:

This tree is from 2022, so it must be outdated. Here is the part that corresponds with the ThruLines above:

 

Note that in this tree, I have George’s siblings: Richard, Eva and Bertha. In the ThruLines, I see Richard, of course, with 20 matches, but then Marianne, John and Ellen. Then there are Sarah, Reubin, Bertha, Eva and Serena. It appears that we have some low hanging fruit to update this chart.

Now I need more genealogy. Here are the children of James Henry Ellis and Clarinda Gorrill:

I would like to at least add Marianne, John William and Ellen.

Marianne Ellis born 1875

Ancestry wants me to evaluate Evelyn and Erma Ruby Williams. They do not appear to be in my tree right now:

Also Marianne’s children are shown in grey, which means that I have not assign male or female to them. I can at least do that based on their names. For Evelyn, I need to look at the 1911 Census:

Marianne is Mary E. here. E. is for Ellis.

Let’s look at the 1921 Census:

Marianne’s mother was living with them. Ancestry transcribes Erma as Emma, so I chose Erma as per the ThruLines. Marianne had a lot of daughters!

Unfortunately, I ended up with two sons which I believe should be one. I can merge these two back together where they belong. I do not see much information on the trees of Karla or Kelton, but I assume due to the close 2nd cousin match that they are related. I do see this for Evelyn Williams:

One way to make sure that these two are right is to see if they match each other:

Yes they do by 34 cM.

So I didn’t add these two to my Ellis DNA Tree due to lack of availability on their Ancestry Trees, but I did go one generation down from Marianne Ellis in my tree.

The John William Line

I would be surprised if these four matches were not in my wife’s Ellis Tree. Here is EE’s paternal side tree at Ancestry:

In 1931, I see John William as a grocery store merchant, but where is his wife?

Here is the family in 1921:

Enid is transcribed at Mannie Ernst, but I think it should be more like Minnie Enid. I missed Enid in the 1931 Census:

Enid apparently marries young, but where is her husband? The Ellises are listed as Church of England and Enid is Presbyterian. Enid’s obituary fills in some details of her life:

Finally, I check EE’s shared matches and I find Shane as expected:

I have to have a separate Ellis DNA Tree for James Henry Ellis:

Here I have Shane who also has MacArthur in his line  – a likely additional relationship to Elaine.

This tree will likely grow quite a bit.

Ellen Mary (Ella May) Ellis

Here is my current tree:

Kent has a small DNA match with Elaine:

Kent’s Ancestry Tree is a bit different:

He has Ellen Gillis instead of Ellen Ellis. I will leave Kent off my tree right now, even though it seems he should be there.

Reubin Ellis 1890

ThruLines has changed it’s look – perhaps to fit more people in. I’ll try to add TM to my tree in the conventional way adding him as a floating tree. T.M. has an Ancestry Tree:

However, it is difficult without T’s father’s or grandfather’s name to go backwards in time.

Here is Reubin in my tree:

Here is the family in 1931:

Reubin was a farmer in 1931. Here is some basic information on Jean:

I would say that and the large DNA match are enough to put these two into my Ellis DNA tree. I’ll just check the shared matches. These are shared matches between T4 and Elaine sorted by closeness to T4:

I see that T4’s father is listed. I wonder why he does not show up on Elaine’s ThruLines? I also see T4’s brother Kirby on the list. From shared matches, genealogy and DNA matches, this is what I get:

Sarah Ellis 1886

I will look at Sarah and then take a bread from the extensive Ellis family.

Elaine shows two matches on this line. I already have two children of Sarah in my Ancestry tree. Here is Shelley’s Ancestry Tree:

Ancestry conveniently outlines the common ancestors of Shelley and Elaine. I assume that Shelley knew who her grandfather was, but I can put Shelley in as a floating tree and then connect her.

It is clear from much information at Ancestry on Sidney that she connects, so I will add her in to my tree.

Sadie fits in between Richard and Reuben Ellis.

Next, Rebecca has her maternal grandmother as an Enman:

We find out quite a bit about Wilma in the Portland, Maine, newspaper;

I will add in Rebecca to my tree. I do note that Wilma’s mother was a MacArthur which likely adds to the DNA matching.

Summary and Conclusions

  • DNA matching at the 2nd cousin level is pretty much a sure thing
  • Some people had insufficient genealogy at Ancestry or private trees. This kept me from adding a few people. However, it it likely the connection is correct
  • The only thing that confuses the DNA matching is that many people from PEI are related on different lines. This could cause a higher match than expected.
  • Due to the large Ellis families and many Ellis descendants taking DNA tests, it would take a long time to review all the matches and add them to my Ellis DNA Tree.

 

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YDNA Haplogroups from Autosomal DNA

I’m pretty sure that I have written about this before. I will not write about how to extract YDNA from Autosomal DNA results but write about where to get it and what to do with it.

From what I understand YDNA general (meaning old) Haplogroups may be obtained from autosomal DNA. The main three sources of this are:

  • 23andMe
  • FTDNA

Gedmatch may have YDNA information but it is self reported by the person uploading their autosomal DNA results. FTDNA and some other company does direct YDNA testing, but I am focusing on YDNA results based on autosomal DNA testing.

This YDNA testing from autosomal testing results may not prove that you are closely related to another male or male line, but it will more often rule you out if you are not related.

My Own YDNA Results

I have taken the BigY test, so I know that I am in this Haplogroup with my brother Jim:

The Haplogroup is called R-FT225247. But looking above that there are many haplogroups whtat are available for other Hartley branches on our line. Here are the suggested dates for these Hartley Haplogroups:

The oldest branch is from a Quaker family of Hartleys who came to Pennsylvania around the year 1700. Their roots go back to the early part of the 1600’s.

Hartleys at 23andMe

23andMe does a basic YDNA Haplogroup. Here is mine:

R-L21 is pretty old and goes back to 2700 BC according to FTDNA:

My second cousin Woody tested at 23andMe also:

Woody gets a more recent Haplogroup called R-Z16855. My Haplogroup was rated at 1 in 7 (pretty common). Here is Woody’s Haplogroup’s frequency:

I don’t see Z16855 in my list from FTDNA. When I Google this Haplogroup, I find this from FTDNA:

I wonder what this means? Was 23andMe wrong in their analysis? I am not aware of Z16855 nor DC55. According to AI:

Outdated Tree Systems: 23andMe utilizes older reference trees (such as ISOGG 2016) for Y-DNA, which means your branch designation may lag years behind the latest genetic discoveries. 

Other Relatives at 23andMe – Lentz

I do see 2 Lentz matches at 23andMe. My mother’s mother was a Lentz. My first Lentz match is R-Y4355. The second Lentz match is also Y4355. Here is part of my Lentz DNA Tree:

According to 23andMe, my 2 male Lentz matches are brothers and are half 1st cousins twice removed to Dorothy – I assume Dotty on the Chart above. As Dotty is the daughter of William, I assume that my other 2 matches must desend from Stanley Lentz:

If Dorothy is twice removed from my two Lentz matches, that must mean that they are great-grandsons of Stanley. And as I have only one male child of Stanley (also Stanley) the two matches must be grandsons of the Stanley born in 1921 (same birth yeare as my mother). Even further as this Stanley had one son, my two matches must be Stanley’s son’s sons.

I put this in my chart before I forgot my reasoning:

That makes Jereme and Will my 2nd cousins once removed. I already have Jereme and Will in DNA Painter on my profile:

Chromosome 4 is interesting as it probably shows the crossover between Lentz and Nicholson. Unfortunately I do not know which match is which.

Here is what FTDNA has for the Lentz Haplogroup:

However, given my Hartley comparison between 23andMe and FTDNA, I would be skeptical. According to 23andMe:

Haplogroup R-Y4355 is descended from haplogroup R-A1168. Among 23andMe research participants, haplogroup R-Y4355 is commonly found among populations in the United Kingdom and Ireland.

FTDNA shows matches in Germany and Sweden.

Frazer YDNA from Autosomal DNA

Here is a Frazer match at 23andMe:

I’ll skip to my cousin Paul I had tested at FTDNA using the BigY test:

Paul and Rick are at R-Y85652. Paul and Rick are third cousins once removed. My 23andMe Frazer relative and Paul are first cousins.

FTDNA has the L664 is quite old:

My Frazer ancestors were in Scandinavia before making there way to Scotland about 2,000 years ago. So Sweden makes sense for L664.

I know that other Frazers have tested at FTNDA, so let’s see if any more Haplogroups show up there. Michael is a known Frazer relative:

It looks like Michael’s male line is more Allen. So that won’t work. Two other Frazers come up on a more distant connection, but they have already taken the BigY test.

On my match list I see Ken. Ken is the brother of Rick who took the BigY test:

Ken would obviously have the same more detailed Haplogroup that his brother and cousin Paul have. But here he has S2894 through his autosomal DNA.

This is simlar to the Frazer Haplogroup at 23andMe:

This gets Ken back to Sweden or Scandinavia. At 1950 BCE, this is more recent than what 23andMe shows.

An Ellis Haplogroup?

This is for my late mother-in-law Joan. I don’t see any autosomal matches at FTDNA under the Ellis name. However, I can look for an Ellis YDNA Project at FTDNA. The FTDNA Ellis YDNA Group has 257 members:

This is a possibility. Maybe the same guy from my Ellis web page:

If this is the right group, it appears to be undertested:

Interesting. I think that the J Haplogroup is somewhat rare.

Any Upshall YDNA Out There?

Upshall is a name in my wife’s mother’s tree. They were from Harbour Buffet, Newfoundland. I am not sure that FTDNA has a YDNA project for this surname. At least I don’t see any easily nor for Newfoundland. That means I need to look at Autosomal DNA.

I do see one Upshall match to my late mother-in-law under Family Finder at FTDNA, but there is no information on YDNA:

Here is what I see from Google AI:

Yes, FamilyTreeDNA (FTDNA) provides Y-DNA haplogroup results for genetic males who complete autosomal transfers, provided you pay the one-time $19 Family Finder Unlock fee. 
However, because autosomal files (from companies like AncestryDNA or 23andMe) do not verify Y-DNA data with the same confidence as lab-verified tests, FTDNA restricts these haplogroups. They will appear on your personal dashboard, but they will not be visible to your DNA matches or to Group Project Administrators. 

So, if one were to contact this match, he may have an estimate concerning his YDNA Haplogroup.

Summary and Conclusions

  • YDNA estimates given by FTNDA and 23andMe give an interesting back door view of male Haplotypes. This resource is probably underutilized.
  • These Haplogroups can be useful in certifying that a certain male is out of a surname group.
  • They can also suggest if an autosomal tester is consistant with other males in a surname group.
  • More people should be aware of this free benefit offered by FTNDA and 23andMe.

 

 

 

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A New Snell DNA Match at Ancestry?

I was just looking at my sister Sharon’s matches. I like to sort matches by ones I haven’t looked at before that show potential Common Ancestors. That lead to this potential match:

Tracey shows as a likely 4th cousin once removed to Sharon.

Here is my Snell DNA Tree:

Looks like my Snell DNA tree got too large, and I built a tree just for descendants of Otis Snell and Ann Parker. Sharon is on the lower left and Tracey’s likely ancestor Albert Snell is on the right.

Tracey’s Ancestry Tree goes back to Norman Snell born in Rochester, MA:

It should be an easy task to join Tracey’s tree with mine. I’ll add Tracey to my tree as a floating tree and then her connect her to my Snell line in the likely event that the genealogy checks out.

When I look at Tracey’s shared matches with Sharon, I also see Jeanne:

Jeanne is one generation closer to Sharon as a 4th cousin and Jeanne’s grandfather is seen on Tracey’s tree. Here is a record connecting Tracey to her father:

Here is Tracey’s dad and his family in 1950 in Wayland, MA:

Here is Katherine in 1930 in Framingham with her family:

I already have Norman in my Ancestry Tree, so now I merge the Nornan of the Census with the Norman in my Tree:

Then I can add Tracey and Jeanne to my Snell DNA Tree:

There is Tracey. Jeanne shows as being a 1st cousin once removed by DNA. At that level there is very doubt of the relationship.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was pretty sure that Tracey was a genealogical relative on the Snell line as well as a DNA match to my sister Sharon
  • The genealogy was easy as it was all in Massachusetts and I added Tracey to my tree.
  • I added Tracey to my Snell DNA tree along with a cousn named Jeanne.
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The Philip Frazer Line of North Roscommon Part 2

In my previous Blog, I started to look at some aspects of my Philip Frazer Line. I had a request to look into matches of the Taylor Line from Jeannette.

Here is Mary Taylor in my Ancestry Tree:

I believe that she married Philip who was the son of my 4th great-grandfather Philip Frazer born some time in the 1700’s. That means that Taylor is not known to be one of my own ancestors.

Here is Jeannette’s Tree:

It looks possible that the Mary in  my tree could be the daughter of Edward Taylor and Catharine. In fact, Ancestry is suggesting that couple. Here is a screen shot from that Jeannette’s tree:

If my dates are correct, then Catharine would have been 14 when she had Mary. That is not likely. Another possibility is that Edward had a wife before Catharine? Or Mary could be a cousin of the family above. Or some of the dates could be wrong.

Looking at the DNA

I think that I am better at the DNA than the genealogy – though both can be confusing. Jeannette had contacted me two years ago about a match that she had with my brother Jon. Actually, the match was between my brother Jon and Jeannette’s mother Dora. Here is what that looks like at Gedmatch:

These are two small matches. The matches are about 7 generations away. That would probably be in the mid 1700’s. Next, I can look at Jon’s DNA Painter Profile:

Unfortunately, I only have Hartley DNA painted on Chromosomes 3 and 15 for Jon. That means I would have to do some work to add some Frazer side matches for Jon. I do have an outdated spreadsheet of Jon’s DNA matches from 2018:

On Chromosome 3, Jon matches me on the paternal (blue) side, Jason on the maternal (pink) side and someone named Gloria. I couldn’t find Gloria at Ancestry. Perhaps the match did not make the cut.

Jon has some larger matches on Chromosome 15:

Unfortunately, none of these names sound familiar.

I can run at report at Gedmatch to find matches that are in common with Jon and Dora :

I recognize the first two people at least.

Barry and Ken both descend from Philip born in the 1700’s. I think that that Barry descends from Philip Frazer born about 1800. Barry’s brother Richard thinks that the elder Philip’s wife was a MacDonald. I am not so sure about that. However, it may be that Dora, Barry, Ken and Jon are related through the wife of the elder Philip.

However, there is a complicating factor in this in that Barry and I are also related on another Line:

This goes back even further to Archibald Frazer born 1720 and Mary Lilley. So that is possible, though less likely as a common ancestor couple.

I can add Jon’s match with Barry to DNA Painter:

I put the match in under Philip Frazer as the more likely common ancestor. Also, this match is to the right of Chromosome 15 where the match with Dora was on the left side of my match with Beth who matches me on my paternal side. .

Next, I add Ken’s match to Jon’s profile:

This match goes back to James Frazer born about 1804:

The fact that these matches do not overlap with the DNA match Jon has with Dora says we cannot prove a particular common ancestor.

My Sister Sharon and Clusters at Ancestry

Last year, I wrote a Blog on my sisters’ DNA Clusters. Here are some clusters between my sister Sharon and one of her Frazer cousins:

The second arrow is pointing to a small cluster. The second person in that Cluster is Alannah. She shows ancestry with a Johnston who married a Taylor. However, as I have many Johnston matches, the connection may be on that side. This is from Alannah’s Ancestry Tree:

Alannah shows Mary Frances Taylor born in Ireland and died in Perth. One shared match with Sharon and Allanah goes back to my McMaster Ancestry in the Kilmactranny, County Sligo area. So the connection may be on my McMaster side.

More on Richard

Here are Richard’s ThruLines up through the Philip who married Mary Taylor:

I have access to Richard’s DNA results at Ancestry which make me able to do this comparison. These matches are just Richard’s brother and his third cousin twice removed. Actually, when I expand the ThruLines, I see more connections:

When I create cluster between Richard and Fraser, I get this:

Here I see two major clusters. Then I see two clusters perhaps, within the first cluster. So what we are seeing here (in my opinion) is the double Frazer relationship that Richard and Fraser have.

Here is an old basic Frazer DNA Tree:

Richard and Fraser descend from what I can tell from the Philip and Archibald Frazer LInes. I descend from Philip and Richard Frazer. Archibald married Ann Stinson.

Interestingly, Patricia who is in the Cluster above has a Stinson from Roscommon in the maternal part of her tree:

That means that the Cluster 1a is likely Archibald Frazer, Cluster 1b is Stinson and Cluster 2 is Phlip Frazer.

Richard and His Taylor ThruLines

It would make more sense to look at these:

Richard has a nice network of Taylor descendant matches coming down from John Taylor.

Of course, this is based on Richard’s genealogy. Richard has that Mary was born when Edward Taylor was 36 and Edward would have been 52 when John was born.

For some reason, I get more ThruLines for Richard when I choose Edward’s wife Catharine:

This could be due to the way that Richard has his family tree set up. Here is what Richard has for Edward Taylor:

Usually when I evaluate ThruLines, I am evaluating them against my own tree. However, in this case, I would need to evaluate both trees.

Richard’s largest DNA match is with Cheryl. Richard and Cheryl have many shared matches. Other than Richard’s brother, there are 6 shared matches that have common ancestors:

  • Judith – shows as descending from John Taylor
  • Gerry – shows as descending from John Taylor
  • Jenna – shows as descending from John Taylor
  • Judy – shows as descending from John Taylor
  • Dana – Dana, child of Judith
  • Christina – shows as descending from Rebecca Taylor

Without doing all the genealogy, the DNA appears to tie this famiy together with Richard.

Pros and Cons

While it looks like Richard’s ThruLines connnects him with the Edward Taylor family, consider this. At the 5th cousin level, there are many possibilities for ancestors:

  • 1st cousins represent 4 ancestors
  • 2nd cousins – 8 ancestors
  • 3rd cousins – 16 ancestors
  • 4th cousins – 32 ancestors
  • 5th cousins – 64 ancestors

Edward Taylor and Catharine represent an ancestral pair, so at the 5th cousin level, Richard would have 32 ancestral pairs to consider. Here is Richard’s Family Tree from Ancestry:

Here are 16 ancestors, so this is at the third cousin level. Third cousins to Richard should have one of these 8 couples as common ancestors.

In Richard’s next generation out, the paternal side appears to be primarily or all Swedish:

That makes sense with what Ancestry has for Richard:

I see that Richard matchs Cheryl at the 4th cousin level:

So Cheryl would be Richard’s closest match on his ThruLines. Cheryl’s paternal side is Ireland and Englnad. Her maternal side looks to be Russian:

I do not see any Swedish sounding names.

Here is Richard’s maternal side at the fourth cousin level:

A cursory review seems to show that the best match is on the Taylor Line. However, Cheryl does not have her family tree past John Taylor, born 1821 in County Sligo, Ireland.

Erin from the Rebecca Taylor Line

Erin’s tree shows that she believes her ancestor to come from County Sligo also:

This is from Erin’s maternal side.

All this to say that it appears that Richard’s ThruLines for his Taylor side seems to be right:

Here is David’s Ancestry information on Catharine and the Taylor family:

He has Catharine giving birth to children when she was between the ages of 17 and 43. I believe that Richard has matches to distant relative descendants of Edward Taylor due to the fact that it was a successful family. By that I mean that there were a lot of descendants for Richard to match DNA with.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Based on Richard’s ThruLines, it would appear that he descends from the Taylor family.
  • Richard has proposed a reasonable timeline for Edward Taylor’s wife Catharine in which she could be giving birth to children.
  • My proposed genealogy does not show that I am descended from the Taylor family. I do have a match with Dora. That means that I could descend from a Taylor further back that I know of or that I am related to Dora somehow on another common line (also pretty long ago).
  • Unfortunately, I do not think that I she much light on Jeannette’s question. I suppose that there are two issues. One is whether Jeannette can show that she is related to the Taylors that Richard shows in his ThruLines. The other is whether Jeannette is related to the Frazers. I think that the answer in both cases could be yes. Unfortunately, the further one goes back, the more difficult it is to sort out the autosomal DNA. In addition, the effect of Protestants marrying within a relatively small gene pool in Ireland makes the DNA and genealogy confusing.