{"id":21806,"date":"2023-05-03T02:25:27","date_gmt":"2023-05-03T02:25:27","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/?p=21806"},"modified":"2023-05-03T11:31:37","modified_gmt":"2023-05-03T11:31:37","slug":"new-ytree-changes-at-yfull-for-hartley-smith-and-nutter-at-a11138","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/2023\/05\/03\/new-ytree-changes-at-yfull-for-hartley-smith-and-nutter-at-a11138\/","title":{"rendered":"New YTree Changes at YFull for Hartley, Smith and Nutter at A11138"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I was informed recently by a person with Nutter surname heritage that there were some changes at YFull in my area of the YDNA Tree. Here is the current YTree:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-08_49_21-Window.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21808\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-08_49_21-Window.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"626\" height=\"329\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-08_49_21-Window.png 626w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-08_49_21-Window-300x158.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 626px) 100vw, 626px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>YF00890 is Smith. YF106096 is Nutter and the last two ID numbers are my brother and me.\u00a0 When I press the live button on the tree, I get this:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-09_39_29-Window.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21809\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-09_39_29-Window.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"491\" height=\"358\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-09_39_29-Window.png 491w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-09_39_29-Window-300x219.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 491px) 100vw, 491px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>This is how the YTree looked for A11132 late last year:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2022-11-09-21_54_38-YFull-_-SNP-matches-1.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21810\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2022-11-09-21_54_38-YFull-_-SNP-matches-1.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"559\" height=\"98\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2022-11-09-21_54_38-YFull-_-SNP-matches-1.png 559w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2022-11-09-21_54_38-YFull-_-SNP-matches-1-300x53.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 559px) 100vw, 559px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>This just included Nutter and myself. This must have changed when I added my brother&#8217;s kit. Notice that this had a formed date and a TMRCA. Last year&#8217;s formed date of 1700 ybp seems way off as that would be roughly the year 300 AD. Here is what FTDNA has:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-17_14_12-FamilyTreeDNA-Discover-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-R-FT225247.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21819\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-17_14_12-FamilyTreeDNA-Discover-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-R-FT225247.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"979\" height=\"842\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-17_14_12-FamilyTreeDNA-Discover-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-R-FT225247.png 979w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-17_14_12-FamilyTreeDNA-Discover-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-R-FT225247-300x258.png 300w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-17_14_12-FamilyTreeDNA-Discover-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-R-FT225247-768x661.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<h2>Changes under A11132<\/h2>\n<p>First, I will look at changes under my branch. It makes sense that I would be under a new branch by adding my brother. At FTDNA, that branch is called FT225247. At YFull it is called A11136. What the A11132 tree is telling me that my brother and I share all the SNPs under A11132. They are:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>A11132<\/li>\n<li>A11134<\/li>\n<li>A16716<\/li>\n<li>A11135<\/li>\n<li>A11137<\/li>\n<li>A11140<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>It also tells me that we don&#8217;t share:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>A11133<\/li>\n<li>A11136<\/li>\n<li>A11129<\/li>\n<li>A11130<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>This is consistant with Variants that my brother and I have under FT225247:<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-14_30_59-Window.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21814\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-14_30_59-Window.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"617\" height=\"803\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-14_30_59-Window.png 617w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-01-14_30_59-Window-231x300.png 231w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 617px) 100vw, 617px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>The difference is that the Mawdsley BigY tester does not have his results posted at YFull. He is the one that split the previous A11132 into A11132 and A11134. As Nutter tested positive for A11134 and A11135, he would be A11134 also.<\/p>\n<h2>A11138 to Y82274<\/h2>\n<p>Mr. Smith who was in the former A11138 group would be better positioned to do this analysis, but I&#8217;ll see what I can see from my viewpoint. Here is the present (non-Live) view of the YTree:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-10_37_47-R-A11138-YTree.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21816\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-10_37_47-R-A11138-YTree.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"553\" height=\"147\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-10_37_47-R-A11138-YTree.png 553w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-10_37_47-R-A11138-YTree-300x80.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 553px) 100vw, 553px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>This shows that Mr. Smith with the low ID# shares his group now with two new memebers. One member appears to be from Australia or have ancestors from Australia. The Tree shows that A11138 has three SNPs:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>A11138<\/li>\n<li>FT22040<\/li>\n<li>MF205420<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>This is interesting because A11138 used to be in it&#8217;s own group of one.<\/p>\n<p>Here is the new designation under the &#8216;Live&#8217; Tree:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-11_00_48-R-A11138-YTree.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21817\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-11_00_48-R-A11138-YTree.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"570\" height=\"235\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-11_00_48-R-A11138-YTree.png 570w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-02-11_00_48-R-A11138-YTree-300x124.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 570px) 100vw, 570px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Now Mr. Smith is under Y82274 (which is under A11138) and the new testers are under Y82274 at Y445810. Mr. Smith&#8217;s Y82274 appears to have 19 SNPs, so would be quite old. Y445810 is in a group of 4 SNPs, so would be younger. These new testers must have not tested at FTDNA as they do not show up there. So, as I was writing this Blog, Mr. Smith who was previously A11138, got pulled down to Y82274, then the two new testers were more closely relataed to each other. They left Mr. Smith at Y82274 and moved down to the newer Y445810. The next step is for YFull to come up with TMRCA numbers. Most people greatly appreciate having those dates. This is one case where YFull has more testers directly under this branch of A11138 than FTDNA has, so their estimates should be more acccurate.<\/p>\n<p>As there are four SNPs in Y445810, that could indicate that SNP is from around the 1600&#8217;s. However, it may be earlier if the two new testers have private variants. My guess is that there will be little difference between the date of A11138 and Y82274. YFull previously had A11138 around the 350AD and FTDNA has it at around the year 500AD.<\/p>\n<h3>Why So Many SNPs for Y82274?<\/h3>\n<p>Or, the question could be, why does Smith have so many SNPs now? My guess is that is because he took the older BigY500 test. This test covered less of the Y Chromosome compared to the newer testing. When the new testers tested, it was clear that they shared many of their SNPs with Smith. Under the older testing at FTDNA, Smith had 11 Private Variants since A11138:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-03-07_21_35-Window.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21823\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-03-07_21_35-Window.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"760\" height=\"812\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-03-07_21_35-Window.png 760w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-03-07_21_35-Window-281x300.png 281w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 706px) 89vw, (max-width: 767px) 82vw, 740px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Now, he is showing 20 SNPs at YFull:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-03-07_24_44-Window.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-21824\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-03-07_24_44-Window.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"557\" height=\"242\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-03-07_24_44-Window.png 557w, https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/2023-05-03-07_24_44-Window-300x130.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 557px) 100vw, 557px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>In addition, Mr Smith likely has Private Variants in parallel with the 4 extra variants that the new testers have. That means that as a result of the new testing, Mr. Smith&#8217;s Variants have about doubled.<\/p>\n<h2>Summary and Conclusions<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>R-A11138 is under a state of flux due to two new testers<\/li>\n<li>A11138 used to be held by Mr. Smith. He is now at one level down at Y82274.<\/li>\n<li>The two new testers are one level below Y82274 at SNP Y445810.<\/li>\n<li>YFull has not come out with new date estimates for A11138, Y82274 and Y445810. This will be important as the new testers are not at FTDNA.<\/li>\n<li>My brother and I are now shown as A11138. However, FTDNA has many more teseters in this area. That means that their tree and dating should be much more accurate than what YFull has.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I was informed recently by a person with Nutter surname heritage that there were some changes at YFull in my area of the YDNA Tree. Here is the current YTree: YF00890 is Smith. YF106096 is Nutter and the last two ID numbers are my brother and me.\u00a0 When I press the live button on the &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/2023\/05\/03\/new-ytree-changes-at-yfull-for-hartley-smith-and-nutter-at-a11138\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;New YTree Changes at YFull for Hartley, Smith and Nutter at A11138&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1,7,28],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-21806","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-heading","category-hartley-dna","category-ydna-hartley-dna"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21806","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=21806"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21806\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":21826,"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21806\/revisions\/21826"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=21806"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=21806"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=21806"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}