{"id":19180,"date":"2022-01-07T21:20:10","date_gmt":"2022-01-07T21:20:10","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/?p=19180"},"modified":"2022-01-07T21:20:10","modified_gmt":"2022-01-07T21:20:10","slug":"a-new-addition-to-the-r1a-frazer-bigy-tree","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/2022\/01\/07\/a-new-addition-to-the-r1a-frazer-bigy-tree\/","title":{"rendered":"A New Addition to the R1a Frazer BigY Tree"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I wa s surprised to find a 111 STR match to our R1a Frazers of Roscommon last Summer. I wrote one Blog which wrongly supposed that Dingman&#8217;s common ancestor with our Frazers predated our common Frazer ancestor who we believe to be Archibald Frazer born in 1690 and probably lived in North Roscomon County, Ireland. Working with Frazer genealogist Joanna, we put together a tree for Dingman. I wrote<a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/2021\/08\/04\/a-frazer-str-tree\/\"> another Blog on August 4, 2021<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-13_59_59-Frazer-R1a-project-Excel.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-18083\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-13_59_59-Frazer-R1a-project-Excel.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"614\" height=\"913\" srcset=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-13_59_59-Frazer-R1a-project-Excel.png 614w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-13_59_59-Frazer-R1a-project-Excel-202x300.png 202w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 614px) 100vw, 614px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Part of the reason (aside from the apparent genealogy) that I put Dingman in the Archibald Frazer Branch was his value of DYS710. I made a STR tree in that same Blog:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-14_51_39-STRs-for-STR-tree-Excel.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-18086\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-14_51_39-STRs-for-STR-tree-Excel.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"799\" height=\"547\" srcset=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-14_51_39-STRs-for-STR-tree-Excel.png 799w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-14_51_39-STRs-for-STR-tree-Excel-300x205.png 300w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/2021-08-03-14_51_39-STRs-for-STR-tree-Excel-768x526.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Here, I supposed that DYS710 = 33 was ancestral and that a value of 34 defined the Archibald Line and that a value of 32 defined the Frazier Line. Here are some values for DYS710 at the FTDNA R1a Project near the Frazers within a green grouping:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-11_57_30-FamilyTreeDNA-R1a1a-and-Subclades-Y-DNA-Project.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-19183\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-11_57_30-FamilyTreeDNA-R1a1a-and-Subclades-Y-DNA-Project.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"30\" height=\"695\" srcset=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-11_57_30-FamilyTreeDNA-R1a1a-and-Subclades-Y-DNA-Project.png 30w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-11_57_30-FamilyTreeDNA-R1a1a-and-Subclades-Y-DNA-Project-13x300.png 13w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 30px) 100vw, 30px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>.The values in the boxes are Max, Mode, Minimum numbers. It looks like I went too far as the last three numbers are under an orange group.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>31 &#8211; 2<\/li>\n<li>32 &#8211; 2<\/li>\n<li>33 &#8211; 5<\/li>\n<li><strong>34 &#8211; 6<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>This shows that the value of 34 appears most often, so would be the mode. However, I still like my STR tree. I believe that there is something called the rule of parsimony when building these trees. That means that you shouldn&#8217;t build these trees in a more complicated way than you have to.<\/p>\n<h2>Dingman and the Current R1a Roscommon Frazer BigY Block Tree<\/h2>\n<p>That is quite a mouthful. I am represented by my 2nd cousin once removed Paul, so I will look at the Frazer Block tree from his viewpoint:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-14_33_21-myFTDNA-Big-Y-Block-Tree.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-19185\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-14_33_21-myFTDNA-Big-Y-Block-Tree.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"769\" height=\"727\" srcset=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-14_33_21-myFTDNA-Big-Y-Block-Tree.png 769w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-14_33_21-myFTDNA-Big-Y-Block-Tree-300x284.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<h3>My Previous Prediction for DIngman<\/h3>\n<p>In my previous Blog on DIngman, I wrote:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\"><em>Assuming the chart above is correct, Dingman will be positive for FT421618 as he descends from Archibald Frazer born 1690. He will be negative for Y151390 which is in the James Frazer Line.\u00a0 We don\u2019t know if\u00a0 Dingman will be positive for Y58652 even though he is from the Archibald Frazer Line<\/em><\/p>\n<p>In the reference above to the chart, I meant my STR tree. It&#8217;s fun to predict how BigY testers will turn out. My prediction was right. Dingman was neither Y151390 (James Frazer Line) nor Y85652.<\/p>\n<h3>What Else May We Gather from the Frazer Block Tree?<\/h3>\n<p>One thing that I gather by the placement of the Frazier tester is that the Frazer name is old and that our Frazer name has likely come down through the ages relatively unaltered. Assuming that the line above the five Frazer testers is 1690, the connection to Frazier goes back an additional three SNPs. If we take a SNP to represent 83 years, then that would go back to the year 1441. Then there are three SNPs above Frazier. At that time, there are many different surnames that match our Frazers. However, these surnames seem to be located around Inverness in Scotland. This brings us back to around the year 1192. At that time most people only went by their first name. That means that our match with Frazier is fortunate as it could represent close to the beginning of the use by our ancestors of the Frazer surname.<\/p>\n<p>One way to check my dates is by using SNP Tracker:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_13_42-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-19186\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_13_42-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1012\" height=\"821\" srcset=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_13_42-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper.png 1012w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_13_42-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper-300x243.png 300w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_13_42-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper-768x623.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 767px) 89vw, (max-width: 1000px) 54vw, (max-width: 1071px) 543px, 580px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>This is the map for the James Frazer Line. Here are some of the dates from SNP Tracker:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_15_00-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-19187\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_15_00-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"764\" height=\"309\" srcset=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_15_00-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper.png 764w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_15_00-Britain-and-Ireland-SNP-Surname-Mapper-300x121.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 706px) 89vw, (max-width: 767px) 82vw, 740px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>These are close to the dates I came up with.<\/p>\n<h3>How Does Dingman Fit In?<\/h3>\n<p>I can re-draw the genealogical chart with the SNPs added on:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_39_47-Frazer-R1a-project-Excel.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-19189\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_39_47-Frazer-R1a-project-Excel.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"544\" height=\"816\" srcset=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_39_47-Frazer-R1a-project-Excel.png 544w, http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/2022-01-07-15_39_47-Frazer-R1a-project-Excel-200x300.png 200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 544px) 100vw, 544px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Here is what I gather from this tree:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Although it appeard that Y85652 defined the Archibald Line of the Frazers, it only really defines the Philip Frazer or James Frazer Line (born abut 1804).<\/li>\n<li>In this case, the Archibald Frazer Line is better defined by the STR DYS710 = 34. This STR mutation must have first appeared in Archibald Frazer born about 1715 or his son Archibald born about 1743.<\/li>\n<li>Dingman&#8217;s line is defined by his four Private Variants. These formed in his line between John or Richard Frazer and Dingman. These could be defined if Dingman tests a close relative for the BigY. It would interesting information. However, it is probably not necessary.<\/li>\n<li>On the James Line, R-151390 formed sometime between James Frazer born about 1720 and Thomas Henry Frazer born 1836<\/li>\n<li>Dingman is a welcome addition to the Frazer of Roscommon BigY tree and provides the earlies branching so far on the Archibald Line of North Roscommon Frazers.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I wa s surprised to find a 111 STR match to our R1a Frazers of Roscommon last Summer. I wrote one Blog which wrongly supposed that Dingman&#8217;s common ancestor with our Frazers predated our common Frazer ancestor who we believe to be Archibald Frazer born in 1690 and probably lived in North Roscomon County, Ireland. &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/2022\/01\/07\/a-new-addition-to-the-r1a-frazer-bigy-tree\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;A New Addition to the R1a Frazer BigY Tree&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[22],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-19180","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-frazer-ydna"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19180","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=19180"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19180\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":19190,"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19180\/revisions\/19190"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=19180"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=19180"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.jmhartley.com\/HBlog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=19180"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}