Sorting Out the Philip Frazers of Roscommon, Ireland

I’ve written a bit about Philip Frazer. He was born probably in Roscommon, Ireland between the 1750’s and 1770’s. In one of my previous Blogs, I proposed this tree:


In a recent e-mail from Richard to myself and Bonnie, we have this to consider:

I am trying to tie up some loose ends about my Frazer family in Ontario in the mid-1800s.  

In Joel’s blog about my third cousin, Martha,

Joel speculates that Philip W. Frazer, in the household of Philip Frazer and Jane in Plympton, Lambton County, Ontario in the 1871 census, is the son of Philip Frazer, the first child of Philip Frazer (b. 1805) and Mary Taylor, b. in Kilmactranny Parish in January 1825.  However, Bonnie’s Frazer tree on Ancestry shows this Frazer family as descended from James Frazer and his wife Violet Frazer.  It seems clear that the Frazer family in Plympton, Ontario is related to my ancestor, Ann Frazer (b. 1832), m. Robert Johnston c. 1853 and raised their children in Blenheim Twp., Oxford County, Ontario and died in 1871.  Based on Bonnie’s Frazer tree, Philip Frazer (father of Philip W.) and Ann Frazer would be first cousins rather than siblings.  Does this sound right to both of you?

I have trouble picturing all this, so let’s look at Bonnie’s tree:

The way it worked, is that it would have been traditional to name your first son after your father. Well, Philip and James, under this scenario both were the sons of Philip and both named their first son Philip. Bonnie has Philip’s first son born in 1825 and James’ son born 1828  – both named for the elder Philip. This makes life for genealogists quite confusing. Under Bonnie’s tree, Richard descends from James and Violet Frazer. I would say that Bonnie’s tree looks better than mine:

I don’t even have Philip as the son of James and Violet – even though I have had him on my web page for a long time:

My October 2018 Blog – Philip Frazer Son of Philip Or James?

Here is the Blog that Richard was referring to:

In my Blog, I assumed that the 45-year-old Philip Frazer in the 1871 Ontario Census descended from Philip and not James and Violet. I can see that I did not at the time consider the other possibility.

Arguments For Philip Frazer of Ontario Being the Son Of James Frazer

Seeing as I did not consider this before, I will now. First, Bonnie’s tree has Philip Frazer married to Jane Hayward. I notice in the 1861 Ontario Census, Jane Hayward Frazer was living in the Haywood household:

Philip was an early Frazer with a connection to Kilmactranny. My own 2nd great-grandfather, George William marries a woman from Kilmactranny Parish and later moves to the area. This may or may not be a coincidence.

Richard Frazer who would have been Philip’s brother under this scenario also lived in Ontario for a while. This could also be considered coincidence.

Here is a photo from my grandmother’s photo album from Toronto:

I have no idea who this mysterious young woman is.

If Philip was the brother of my ancestor George, he may have named a son for him. However, I have that both Philip and James had a brother named George.

I have that my ancestor George lived in the house of his father James. If Philip or Richard, George’s older brothers, continued on in Ireland, then this may have not been the case.

I have not come up with a convincing argument, but I think that Bonnie’s tree is probably right. It feels right.

Other Trees

Joanna, who is a noted Frazer researcher, has this in her Ancestry Tree:


Joanna agrees with Bonnie though I think they do collaborate some.

The Counter-Argument: Philip Frazer is the Son of Philip Frazer

My original suggestion was based a lot on naming patterns. It would have been traditional for Philip, son of Philip to name his first son Philip. If Philip was the son of James, why didn’t he name his first son James instead of Philip? James’ first son was Philip. James’ second and third sons were Richard and George William. Richard’s first son was James Archibald born 1856. He died in 1861. George William’s first son was also James Archibald who was born in 1867.

Philip in Kilmactranny or Ardcarn?

I believe that Philip was from Ardcarn Parish. A search for Frazers in the Tithe Applotment Books shows 18 entries for Frazers in County Roscommon and none in County Sligo. Ardcarn Parish is in Roscommon and Kilmactranny Parish is in County Sligo. Here is Philip in 1834 in Derrycastle aka Derrycashel with some of his relatives:

Here is an early marriage record from the Kilmactranny Church:

This clearly indicates that Philip was from Ardcarne and Jane was from Kilmactranny. A search for Johnstons in Kilmactranny Parish in the Tithe Applotment reveals three Johnston families in Dromore in 1834: William, Alexander and John. Perhaps they were brothers of Jane. Here is Dromore:

The dotted line to the South of Kilmactranny is the County Roscommon border.

Here is another try at a Philip Frazer Tree:


This tree focuses on the Philip’s and omits some of the siblings. I have a Philip marrying Jane Johnston and then Mary Taylor. If he first married in 1818, I would guess that he could have been born around 1795.

Another Ancestry Tree

Here is a Tree that is not associated with the Frazer DNA Project:

Here they have more information on George Frazer. They also have a William Frazer who would make for a young parents for James and Violet Frazer. This William is also unexpectedly born in Edinburgh. The tree has the generally accepted Philip husband of Jane Hayward as the son of James and Violet Frazer:


The DNA?

I mentioned in the Blog that Richard referred to, “All we need to do next is to see if there are descendants of Philip W, Alfred, Mary, Emily and George and see if they would take a DNA test.” I don’t know of any of the descendants of the Philip Frazer family of Plympton, Ontario who have had their DNA tested. Perhaps one will soon. This would be especially interesting to me as we would have the common ancestors of James and Violet Frazer – assuming the above tree is right.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Thanks to Richard’s diligence, he pointed out a disagreement between my previously proposed Philip Frazer tree and what others had in their Frazer Trees.
  • Given what I know now, I think that the most recent tree above should be fairly accurate. Next time I need to check existing trees before suggestiing a new line.
  • If any descendants of Philip Frazer and Jane Hayward have their DNA tested, it would likely give more proof as to whether the above trees are correct.
  • I haven’t seen a death record for the elder Philip Frazer. It could be that he died before there were good death records available. If that was the case, that would mean that it would be his son Philip who was in the 1834 Tithe Applotment.



Genealogy for Heather and JJ: Part 11 – Jeremiah Warren Born 1812 Ireland

This is a follow-up on Part 10.

Jeremiah Warren Born 1812 Ireland

Here is Jeremiah at the top of Heather and JJ’s maternal grandmother’s tree:

Here is Jeremiah’s birth record on his Naturalization index card:

Perhaps there is more information in Lowell or at the National Archives. Jeremiah was born in Ireland, but I don’t know where yet.

Mary Kelly (1812-1854)

Much of what I have about Jeremiah’s wife Mary Kelly is from death records:

Mary died at Cross Street in Lowell in 1854. The names of her parents are given as John and Ann Kelly. Mary died of consumption which is: “a wasting disease, especially pulmonary tuberculosis”. Here is Cross Street:

Here is Mary in the 1850 Census:

This was an $8,000 house, which seems quite expensive for the day. Note that daughter Bridget was born while Mary and Jeremiah were in Nova Scotia. Bridget’s death record adds that she was born in Halifax. I included the following family as they were from Nova Scotia. James Dalton was a Shoe maker. I notice that there was a Jeremiah who served in the Civil War who was a shoe maker at one point in his life:

Some More On Jeremiah Warren (1812-1857)

Here is Jeremiah in 1855:

This would have been shortly after the death of his wife Mary. Daughter Bridget married John Sullivan in May this same year, so she must have just moved out of the house at the time of the 1855 Census:

That left Jeremiah five boys to take care of on his own. Two years later Jeremiah dies. However, here is something to ponder:

Jeremiah is said to be 65 on his death record. If Jeremiah was born 1812, he would have been 45 in 1857. It appears to say he was married. However, he may have re-married. It also says that he died of old age. That leads me to this marriage record in 1856:

Here a Jeremiah Warren marries a Mary Cahill. Jeremiah has somehow gotten younger and then the next year, he ages 30 years.

After Jeremiah

In my previous Blog on the subject, I noted no Jeremiah Warren in the 1858 Lowell City Directory. However, a widow Mary appears:

This must be Mary Cahill. Unfortunately, she was to have a short marriage of a year and a half.

Two years later, Mary was appointed administratix:

Mary had three months to come up with an inventory.

This shows that John had seven children:

It looks like I missed the last child James. This must be James. However, he did not live long:

Jeremiah’s Children

I believe that the oldest three boys served in the Civil War: Robert, Thomas and Jeremiah.

Bridget, the only daughter married John Sullivan.

Here is Bridget in 1865 taking care of John and Patrick. I have that John was born in 1845, so shouldn’t he be 20 in 1865? Was this to keep him out of the Civil War? And what happened to Jeremiah’s second wife?

Robert J Warren

The oldest son married Margaret Kelly in 1862. He is likely listed as James in the 1870 Census:

He was a painter. He was listed here as born in Ireland, but I don’t think that is right. Robert died six years later in 1876.

In this record, he shows as being born in Boston. I checked and this is likely his baptismal record:

This would be one of the earliest records of the family in Massachusetts. That makes sense that he would be born in Boston if his older sister Bridget was born on the way from Ireland to Massachusetts in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Thomas A Warren Born 1840 Lowell

So the Warren family made it’s way from Ireland to Halifax to Boston to Lowell.  Thomas married Mary Jane White in 1861. Here he is in the 1865 Lowell City Directory:

I get the impression that Thomas served in the Civil War.

Thomas ended up in Maine:

Thomas died in 1906 and his body was shipped back to his brother Jeremiah who lived at Cross Street, Lowell:

I suppose that’s a good lead-in to Jeremiah

Jeremiah Warren Born 1842 Lowell

Jeremiah married for the second time in 1872:

Here is Jeremiah in 1870:

Perhaps his first wife had died by this time as he is living with Francis aged 2.

Here is Jeremiah and Ellen with son Albert in 1880:

Here is the same family at Cross Street, Lowell in 1900:

Jeremiah died in 1908 at 27 Cross Street – two years after his brother Thomas died and was shipped to Lowell.

Patrick H Warren (1853-1875)

Before I get to John Warren, I’ll look at John’s younger brother Patrick. In 1870, Patrick was living with his older brother Thomas in Boston:

Patrick died at age 22 of Consumption at Lincoln Street, Lowell:

John J Warren (1845-1882)

John J Warren is my best guess for the father of John Edward Warren aka Cavanaugh. Here is the published record for John’s birth:

I believe that C.R. means cemetery record. John shows as being 5 in the 1850 Census. As the 1850 Census was taken on June 1st, John would probably been 4 at the time of the Census if his above birth date is right.

John’s mother died before he was 10. I lose track of the family in 1860, but by 1865, John’s father Jeremiah had also died and John was living with his married sister Bridge Sullivan.

John J Warren and Bridget J Welch

Here is a marriage on November 11, 1866 between young John and Bridget:

They were both born and living in Lowell and here are their parents:

  • Mary J was born to this couple in 1867
  • Margaret was born in 1869. In this record, it says that Bridget was born in Boston
  • Bridget T Warren was born in 1871. In this record both parents are reported as born in Ireland.
  • Thomas G Warren was born in 1875.

Mother Bridget died in September 1878 at age 30.

Here is widowed John J with his four children living on 7 Bleachery Street on June 7, 1880:

12 year old Mary J was home ‘keeping house’.

John Warren, Louisa Gately and John E Warren aka Cavanaugh

Based on this record for John E Warren aka Cavanaugh, John E Warren son of John [Warren] and Louisa Gately married ‘Laoner’ M. Morrow in 1911:

This marriage record for John E Warren record states that John Warren and Louisa Gately were the parents of John E Warren. One interesting thing about this record is that there is no record of the Cavanaugh name. For whatever reason, John chose to omit the Cavanaugh name on his marriage record. Louisa was technically a Cavanaugh at this point and John E went by John Edward Cavanaugh for most of his life.

Seven and three quarter years after his marriage, here is John Edward’s WWI Registration Card where he gives the date of his birth:

Assuming this birth date to be correct, Louisa would have been past mid-term in her pregnancy with John Edward at the time of the 1880 Census:

Louisa lived at 38 Bleachery Street.

John J Warren worked at the bleachery. Louisa worked at U.S. Bunting. This was a company that made material for the US flag. Louisa’s husband Michael Cavanaugh also worked at the bleachery before his death in 1872.

John J Warren died less than two years after the birth of John Edward Warren/Cavanaugh in 1882 of an ‘accidental drowning’. Probably in Amesbury.

Any Holes In the Story?

I have tried to show the history leading from Jeremiah Warren to John Edward Warren aka Cavanaugh. Are there any holes in the story? I think the story holds together, but there are a few questions or issues:

  • I have not found a birth record for John Edward Warren/Cavanaugh. Perhaps there is a baptismal record for him.
  • Why didn’t John J Warren marry Louisa Gately Cavanaugh?
  • I am sure that there must be a newspaper article or two on the drowning of John J Warren. That would be interesting to read.
  • Why did John Edward go by Warren in his marriage record, then go by Cavanaugh after that?
  • John Edward is difficult to trace in his later life and his death record has not yet been found





A New Rathfelder DNA Match

I recently saw an interesting DNA match on my mother’s side. This was on her paternal Rathfelder side. What was interesting was that the DNA match was quite high and the Rathfelder matches are quite rare.

My Mom’s Match With Donna At AncestryDNA

My mom’s match with Donna is here:

Ancestry predicts that Donna and my mom are 2nd cousins. However, they give a range between 1st and 2nd cousins. Here are some possibilities by DNA:

My guess is that my mom Gladys and Donna are 1st cousins twice removed.

Donna’s Genealogy

I wrote to Donna saying that I thought that the match with my family was on our Rathfelder side. Donna wrote back saying that she didn’t know who the father of her grandfather but her grandfather was born in 1919 to a Miss Barlow and his name was was Leonard Rathfulder Barlow. My mother’s father’s brother’s name was Leonhard Rathfelder. He was born in 1896 and could be the right age to be the father of Leonard Rathfulder Barlow.

Here is how Donna may fit in:

My mom is on the left. Donna is in the next to the last row. If my guess is right, then Donna would be my mother’s 1st cousin twice removed and my 2nd cousin once removed. The fact that Donna’s grandfather’s name is so close to my great Uncle’s name seems to be a major clue.

Here is a photo of my grandfather Alexander and his brother Leo:

Here is a photo from Anita of Leo’s three children in Latvia – Hermanis, Nina and Vera. Hermanis is Catherine’s father and Vera is Anita and Inese’s grandmother.

More DNA Comparisons

If my guess is right, then Donna should match my mother, and my family in a similar way that Anita and Inese match my family. All I have to do is fill in the blanks:

Jim and Rusty tested at FTDNA. Anita and Inese tested at MyHeritage. All have uploaded their results to Gedmatch Genesis for comparison except for Donna.

Here are the known matches with Anita and Inese:

The DNA matches range from a low of 80.7cM between Rusty and Inese to a high of 213.5 with Heidi and Anita. This turns out to an overall average of 127 which is close to the reported average of 123 cM for 2nd cousin, once removed.

When I add in Donna’s matches with my family, they are higher than between Anita and Inese and my family:

Jim and Rusty’s comparisons with Donna are blank because they didn’t test at Ancestry. The biggest different is with my first cousin Cindy. She has about twice as much matching DNA with Donna compared to her matches with Anita and Inese. However, it appears that these are all 2nd cousin, once removed relationships. Donna just got more Rathfelder DNA than average.

The Logistics

At first glance, it would appear unlikely that a child born in South Shields on Tyneside would have a father who was from Latvia:

However, Leo worked on a ship and traveled extensively:

Leo is on the right in the first photo and on the left in the second one. That means that I cannot provide the exact circumstance of how Leo and Miss Barlow met. Perhaps she also worked on a ship or perhaps Leo had regular visits to where Miss Barlow lived.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Putting together the DNA match and other evidence, It appears that Leonhard Rathfelder is the father of Leonard Rathfulder Barlow who was born in 1919 in England.
  • This could be further verified if Donna uploads her DNA to Gedmatch Genesis for comparisons.
  • I don’t have specific evidence of where Miss Barlow and Leo were  in 1918, but it appears that it is quite likely that they were the parents of Leonard Rathfulder Barlow.

Genealogy for Heather and JJ: Part 9 – 200 Years of Canadian Ancestry

In my previous Blog I had some breakthroughs on Heather and JJ’s Boudria (also spelled Boudrias) Line. In this Blog, I’d like to look at the Barbary side (mother of Joseph Tessier aka Tacy) and more into Phoebe, the wife of Joseph Tessier. I have been using the Genealogy of Canada Website, so I’ll continue with that.

First Phoebe

I have had trouble finding out Phoebe’s last name. I had Sawyer then took it out. Then I noticed a Tessier tree had Phoebe as Phoebe Sawyer. At the Genealogy of Canada Website, I see Joseph’s father Salomon, but not Joseph:

Here is Ste-Therese where Salomon Tessier was born:

So I am still stuck figuring out who Phoebe is

Barbary and Barbary

Next, I’ll move on the the double Barbary line:

Joseph and Marie Barbary

I’m curious to see if the parents of Marguerite Amable Barbary are related to each other. Chances are they should be. They are both dit Grandmaison. Dit is a nickname. Pehaps this line lived in a large house.  Marguerite’s father, Joseph was born in Pointe-Claire on the Island of Montreal in 1776 and died in Ste-Placide to the West of Montreal:

Marie Barbary is more difficult to find. Her estimated birth year is 1783. Here are the couple in 1851 in Ste-Placide:

Joseph is listed as 76 ans and Marie shows as 64 ans. Based on this Census, she could have been born in 1787. Ancestry guesses at 1788, so I’ll use that. Here is Ste-Placide by the  St Lawrence River.

Barbary in the 1750’s

Joseph and Andre were both born in the 1750’s when the United States was still a British Colony:

Joseph was born in Point-Claire and Andre was born not far away:

Agathe Robidoux was from Deux-Montagnes:

Three Generations From Marguerite Amable Barbary

I have all of Maruerite’s four grandparents. The next step takes us to Marguerite’s eight great-grandparents.

Unfortunately Marguerite’s maternal grandmother Agathe Labrosse died when she was 24. With my translator on I see that Labrosse could mean “the brush”.  Most of Marguerite’s great-grandparents were from Point-Claire. Most of this generation also lived through the year 1760. That was the year that Montreal was surrendered to the British following the Battle at the Plains of Abraham in Quebec City. Montreal did not become a City until 1832. It was not long after this time that Heather and JJ’s 3rd and 4th great grandparents Joseph and Solomon Tessier aka Tacy made their move South over the border into Upstate New York.

Marguerite Amable’s 2nd Great-Grandparents

The next logical step is to look for Marguerite’s 16 2nd great-grandparents. The first of this generation of Marguerite’s ancestors that I looked at was Raymond Labrosse. He was born in France in 1695:

This town was about 60 miles north of Lyon. So this is the generation where some of the ancestors were born in France. Other things I want to look for:

  • A possible Barbary common ancestor
  • the filles du roi – more about these women later

Pierre Barbary Dit Grandmaison and Marie-Fracoise Pare

Both of Marguerite’s parents had the same last name.  Joseph and Marie Barbary were second cousins to each other. Their common ancestors were Pierre Barbary born 1677 and Marie-Francsoise Pare born 1682.

The Filles Du Roi

Filles du Roi means daughters of the king. These were women who came to New France or the Quebec area under King Louis XIV. Basically, there was a shortage of women in Quebec. The plan was to pay the way of about 800 women as wives for the colonists. These woman were to make the area more civilized and create new families. There was a concern that the British Colony had too much in the way of population compared to New France. It has become a big deal to see if you are descended from the 800 women who came to Quebec between 1663 and 1673.  It will take going back a generation or two to see if Heather and JJ descend from any filles du roi. There is a strict rule that it was only the women who arrived between 1663 and 1673 that count. That means that if a woman came at, say, age 20-25, then she would have been born about 1638-1653, although I’m sure there were outliers.

So far, I have found one person that could meet that criteria:

I have been accepting ancestor hints like crazy, as it would take too long to check up on all these ancestors. This woman is Jacqueline Barn. That doesn’t sound particularly like a French name.

She would be Heather and JJ’s 10th great-grandmother. That sounds impressive. Imagine how many 10th great-grandparents you have. Let’s see, 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents:

  • 2nd GGP – 16
  • 3rd GGP – 32
  • 4th GGP – 64
  • 5th GGP – 128
  • 6th GGP – 256
  • 7th GGP – 512
  • 8th GGP – 1024
  • 9th GGP – 2048
  • 10th GGP – 4096

So if the suggestions were right at Ancestry, then Jacqueline Barn is about one four thousandths of Heather and JJ.

Unfortunately I couldn’t find Barn or Glory on the Filles Du Roi lists.

Next, Let’s Try Jeanne Barbier

Jean is a mere 9th grandmother to Heather and JJ:

Jeanne’s daughter Marie Jeanne Plummereau Latreille didn’t have an Ancestry hint, so I had to look at a marriage record and accept someone else’s parents from their tree. Here is Jeanne on a list:

The contract is the marriage.

Unfortunately, I don’t know much about Jeanne.

Here is Rethel in the Champagne Region:

Here is Chambly, Quebec:

Here is another list:

Many times these women were marrying soldiers to fight on the frontier. Notice that Jeanne Barbier’s first contract was canceled. My understanding is, as these women were quite a precious commodity, they could choose their own husband which would have been quite a role reversal for the 1600’s. My guess is that Jeanne didn’t get along with Bernard or that he wasn’t rich enough or attractive enough. Perhaps he had fleas, body odor and missing teeth.

Summary and Conclusions

  • First, I took another shot at identifying Joseph Tessier Tacy’s wife Phoebe’s surname, but had no luck.
  • Secondly, I looked into Joseph Tessier’s Barbary line. Maguerite Amable Barbary was Joseph’s mother.
  • Marguerite Barbary’s parents were 2nd cousins to each other. I traced both their lines.
  • Next, I looked for a Fille Du Roi for Heather and JJ. The second choice I looked at was Jeanne Barbier who was a Fille Du Roi. Jeanne was born around 1649 in the Champagne Region of France.




Visually Phasing Heather and JJ’s DNA

I started visually phasing my two children, Heather and JJ’s DNA in this Blog. I was having trouble getting the Steven Fox Visual Phasing Spreadsheet to work, so I just used Excel.

The Steven Fox Visual Phasing Spreadsheet

I got this spreadsheet working. It doesn’t like you to cut and paste numbers, so I typed them in. In my previous Blog I mentioned above, I came up with this for Heather and JJ’s Chromosome 5:

The paternal side is easy because Heather and JJ’s Rathfelder grandmother has tested. Where she matches them on the paternal side is Rathfelder. Where she doesn’t match Heather and JJ is Hartley DNA. The maternal side is more difficult. The green above is Jarek. I found some Jarek relatives that helped there. I couldn’t find a Cavanaugh relative and uploaded JJ and Heather’s AncestryDNA results to FTDNA. There, I found Martha, who is a 1st cousin once removed. That is perfect for phasing. Martha is related to Heather and JJ on the Cavananaugh side only.

Here is the Fox Spreadsheet:

I set the vertical lines to match the areas above where JJ and Heather match each other. Below is JJ and Heather’s maternal grandmother’s match which will be the Rathfelder side. Next I put in Rathfelder and Hartley based on the match below:

Jarek Cousin Robert

Next, I can fill in some Jarek DNA based on matches to Jarek cousin Robert:

Robert matches Heather more than JJ on the right, so that could be a maternal crossover for JJ:

Here is how Heather matches her Cavanaugh cousin Martha on Chromosome 5:


Heather’s match stops at 159M which is where I have a crossover line:

At the same area, JJ has a match with Martha from 150-166M.

Another Jarek Cousin

Jarek cousin Robert tested three of his relatives or siblings, I’m not sure which. This one helped:

Robert’s sibling’s DNA match goes over the crossover line, so that cannot be JJ’s crossover. I gave it to Heather. The crossover at 112 was already paternal, so I brought the Jarek DNA over. So far, on Chromosome 5, the Jarek DNA seems to be winning out between JJ and Heather. However, I have a problem. The Fox Spreadsheet has a feature called a segment map. It compares what you have mapped (bottom bar) versus what the actual comparison is between Heather and JJ (top bar).


The top bar needs to match the bottom bar. It does except for the 2nd and third segments I show above.  I missed the crossover before 112. However, I may be able to reason myself out of this jam.

Note that at position 129, there are already two crossovers. I think that there should only be one there. If I move Heather’s Cavanaugh DNA to left, that should solve the problem:

This is what I end up with. Now the bottom bar and the top bar match each other. I still don’t have the first maternal segment defined for Heather and JJ. It would look better if JJ had the crossover at 33.5M. It may be possible to figure this out by cousin matches.

Here are some of JJ’s maternal DNA matches from his match list:

JJ doesn’t have any matches going through 33.5M. The 10.7 and 14.6cM matches are where JJ matches Heather.

Here is the same portion on Heather’s maternal match list:

This shows that Heather’s matches do go at least a little way through 33.5, so it appears that JJ has the crossover at 33.5M:

This is true because maternal matches cannot go through a maternal crossover. That is true unless someone is related on the order of first cousin or closer.

From this, we see a few interesting things:

  • Heather and JJ will not have any Hartley side matches before 112M or what appears to be more than half of Chromosome 5
  • After position 129M, Heather and JJ will not have any Rathfelder matches.
  • Likewise, Heather and JJ will have no Cavanaugh matches between 33.5 and 74 and from 170.6 to the end of Chromosome 5.
  • Jarek DNA is missing between Heather and JJ only between 149.7 and 159.3.
  • All this information is important when trying to determine on what side your unknown DNA matches are on.


Genealogy for Heather and JJ: Part 10 – Cavanaugh/Warren

I last discussed Heather and JJ’s Cavanaugh side in Part 4 and Part 6. I came to the conclusion that Cavanaugh should really be Warren:

That has a lot of implications for Heather and JJ’s maternal grandmother’s father’s genealogy. John E Cavanaugh’s mother is the same, but I have the father as John J. Warren.

Warren Genealogy and DNA

Ideally, the DNA should confirm the Warren genealogy. However, so far, I have not found a lot of matches on the “Cavanaugh” side of Heather and JJ. I’ll start with Heather’s DNA matches. There could be Warren’s on the paternal side, so I need to disregard paternal matches.

I found one match at 4th cousin level or closer, but the Warren matches were not obvious. Also this person had some Polish matches, so the matches could have been on JJ and Heather’s Polish lines.

DNA Matches At FTDNA

Family Tree DNA or FTDNA allows you to upload your DNA results from Ancestry to see if  you have matches with others who have tested at FTDNA. I did that for Heather and JJ. Here is JJ’s match with Martha at FTDNA:

Martha shows as a 1st to 3rd cousin to JJ by DNA. Martha doesn’t match on JJ’s paternal side or on the Polish side, so that should mean that Martha matches on JJ and Heather’s Cavanaugh side. The problem is that Martha doesn’t show a tree at FTDNA. I’ve sent Martha an email and will have to wait and see if she writes back.

Warren Genealogy – John J. Warren 1845-1882

What do we know about John J. Warren? He did not live long. It looks like he died at age 37. Here are records from Lowell:

On the next page:

Actually, I should be looking at John’s most recent records first and working back.

This shows a John J Warren died in Lowell of an accidental drowning in 1882 at age 38. The record says that he was born in Lowell, but that his parents, Jeremiah and Mary were both born in Ireland.

John J Warren – 1880 Bleachery Street

John J was living as a widower in 1880 with his family on Bleachery Street in Lowell and worked at the bleachery:

This Census was June 7 and I have that John Edward Warren aka Cavanaugh was born on August 24, 1880.

The Warren Family in 1855 Lowell

Above in the Lowell Birth Records, I had birth records for Jeremiah, John and Thomas. This must be them in 1855 in Lowell:

This is a little confusing, but it is the best that I have. Patrick appears to show as being under 5 years old and born in Ireland. Then Robert shows as born in Ireland. Thomas, Jeremiah and John match what is in the Lowell Birth Records Book.

This is what I had for the Warren family:

I had that Bridget got married on 25 May 1855. The Massachusetts Census was on 1 May 1855, so she may have just moved out of the house (assuming I have the right person). Her marriage and death record says that she was born in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Her death record says that her father was John Warren, however, this may be in error. Bridget’s death recored shows her mother’s name as Mary Kelly.

Thomas A Warren

After the Civil War, Thomas moved to Boston with his wife and two children. Here we see Patrick Warren who was mentioned in the 1855 Lowell Census.

Unfortunately, this Patrick died in Lowell in 1875. From Patrick’s death record, his mother is given as Mary, but on his birth record, his mother’s name is given as ‘Margret’. This makes more sense the way the 1855 Census was written.

Here is a possible death record for Jeremiah on 31 August 1857:

This record shows Jeremiah, son of another Jeremiah and Mary, as being married at the time of death. He appears to have died at Crop Street? Maybe Cross Street makes more sense.

According to the 1855 City Directory below, the corner of Cross and Marion would have been right across from Saint Patrick’s Church.

In the 1858 City Directory, I see no Jeremiah:

Back To Martha and FTDNA

Martha was nice enough to get back to me and figured out who I was. Then I thought to look at the information my former wife sent me and found Martha there.

Now I see why Martha was able to figure out who I am:


Martha is 1st cousin once removed to Heather and JJ.

Summary and Conclusions

  • In this Blog, I mixed some genealogy research with DNA research
  • I had trouble finding matches on JJ and Heather’s Cavanaugh/Warren side, so I uploaded their results to FTDNA
  • At FTDNA I found a match who is Heather and JJ’s 1st cousin once removed.
  • In my next Blog, I will use Martha’s DNA matching to help visually phase JJ and Heather.

My Son’s AncestryDNA Results Are In

I recently got an email saying my son JJ’s DNA results were in. JJ shows this on his main AncestryDNA page:

There is a third box for DNA Circles, but those take a while to form after JJ’s DNA is linked to a tree. Here is how JJ compares to his sister Heather:

Both JJ and Heather come out as mostly England, Wales and Northwestern Europe. However, JJ’s #2 Ethnicity is Eastern Europe and Russia and Heather’s #2 is Germanic Europe. Another thing that stands out is that JJ has about 150 more 4th cousin or closer matches.

JJ and Heather’s Ethnicity

One would think that the ethnicity would come out the same for Heather and JJ as siblings, but it doesn’t. Here is what JJ shows:

JJ shows 3% Baltic within the larger Eastern Europe and Russia.

Heather doesn’t show the 3% Baltic but has 3% France instead:

The overall effect is the same.

JJ and Heather Each Have One SubRegion of England

These are subtle differences. JJ has Yorkshire & Pennines within Northern England and the Midlands:

Heather has the SubRegion of Northern England & the Midlands, but doesn’t have it broken down further like JJ has:

That means that while JJ and Heather both have the subregion: Northern England & the Midlands, JJ has the sub-sub region of Yorkshire & Pennines.

JJ and Heather At Gedmatch Genesis

As siblings, JJ and Heather match each other in a way that they match no one else. Here is how JJ and Heather compare to each other on Chromosomes 19-21:

We each have a male and female copy of our chromosomes. However the results don’t distinguish which is which and combine the two. On the bottom of each chromosome above is a blue or black region. Blue is where JJ and Heather match each other and black is where they don’t match. On the top part, there is either green, red or yellow. Red is where there is no match. The yellow above the blue is called a half match also known as an HIR. The green is called a Fully Identical Region (or FIR).

What Do These Three Regions Mean?

No match means no match. However, a good way to look at this is in terms of grandparents. JJ and Heather got their DNA from their four grandparents: Hartley, Rathfelder, Jarek and Cavanaugh.

  • No Match – An example would be if JJ got his paternal DNA From Hartley and maternal DNA from Jarek in a no match region, that would mean that Heather must have gotten her paternal DNA from Rathfelder and her maternal DNA from Cavanaugh
  • HIR – These regions are a little trickier. This means that if JJ and Heather both got their paternal DNA from Hartley and JJ got his from Jarek, then Heather got her maternal DNA from Cavanaugh in that half matching region.
  • FIR – This means that if JJ got his DNA in this region from Hartley and Jarek, then Heather also would have to have gotten her DNA from Hartley and Jarek.

Visual Phasing for JJ and Heather

Visual Phasing is more difficult for two siblings than for three or more, but let’s try it on Chromosome 19. First I put some information onto a spreadsheet, but it is just a place for phasing:

In the middle no match, I represented the four grandparents as four different colors:

There looks like there may be a tiny match in the middle of the non-match, but I am ignoring that for now.

Cheating on the Rathfelder Side

JJ and Heather’s Rathfelder grandmother has been tested so this should be a big clue. Here is how JJ and Heather match their paternal grandmother:

What does this mean? This means that Heather matches her paternal grandmother on the whole length of the Chromosome. Again, I’m ignoring the non-match in the pink area (called the centromere).

In the chart above, I had Heather’s paternal as blue in the middle region. Let’s call blue Rathfelder.


The places where I have the vertical lines in the spreadsheet above correspond the changes in the ways that JJ and Heather match each other. These are called crossovers. That means that at these spots the DNA that they got from one grandparent will cross over to the DNA that they got from another one. These crossovers are either maternal or paternal.

Already, I also know that JJ’s Yellow will be Hartley. That is his only other choice for a paternal grandparent. Next I put the JJ’s Rathfelder DNA in:

Now JJ has two paternal crossovers. His paternal DNA goes from Rathfelder to Hartley and then back to Rathfelder. JJ’s crossover is at 7 Million, because that is where the DNA match with is Rathfelder grandmother stops.

Next, because JJ has a paternal crossover at position 46, that means that he probably doesn’t have a maternal crossover at the same spot. Because of that, I’ll move JJ’s green DNA a little to the left and all the way to the right:

On the right hand side there is a half match. That half match is blue, so the orange can extend to the right on Heather’s maternal side:

Using the same logic for the small segment on the left, I can move the orange a little way to the left:


Now I am stuck on the left HIR segment. I don’t know if the maternal crossover goes to Heather or to JJ. If it goes to Heather, then that means that the left maternal segment for JJ will be green. If JJ has the crossover, it will be orange. A maternal cousin match could solve this.

Painting JJ’s Chromosomes

I’ll come back to visual phasing later. Now I’d like to paint JJ’s chromosomes. I had painted Heather’s previously. This shows Heather’s known maternal matches on her Jarek side:

These appear to be four siblings or close relatives. They are not relatives that Heather knows, but relatives with known Jarek ancestors. I could use this information for visual phasing as these chromosomes should be easier to visually phase.

The Same Matches But Matched To JJ

Back To Visual Phasing

JJ has a pretty good match on Chromosome 18, so I’ll try that one next:

Here we have almost the same scenario as in Chromosome 19, except that there is one more crossover on the right. I put in numbers at 9.8 and 53 to give a general idea of where we are. These correspond to where JJ and Heather match each other.

Here is how JJ and Heather’s paternal Rathfelder grandmother match them on Chromosome 18:

This time JJ gets a full dose of Rathfelder DNA.


I put in Heather’s Rathfelder DNA also.

Next, I want to visually phase Heather and JJ’s first maternal side DNA. Actually, I phased it on Chromosome 19, but I couldn’t identify it due to lack of DNA matches with known ancestry. Now we can do that. My guess is that green will be Jarek and orange will be Cavanaugh. By eye it looks that way.

JJ’s match with one Jarek descendant goes from 33 to 53.8, so that is the case.

I filled in the yellow Hartley for Heather as it should go up to where Heather matches her Rathfelder grandmother. Now I am stuck, but I have identified a Cavanaugh segment for Heather based on JJ’s Jareck DNA.

Chromosome 4 – Some Cavanaugh DNA for JJ

From DNA Painter, here are JJ’s Jarek DNA matches:

Here are Heather’s Jarek DNA matches:

Heather has extra Jarek matches that JJ doens’t have. That means that JJ probably has Cavanaugh DNA where Heather has her first two Jarek DNA matches.

Unfortunately, Chromosome 4 is longer and will have more crossovers:

This time I’ll start at the FIR. That means that JJ and Heather have the match on the same two grandparents on their paternal and maternal sides. I’ll have to switch the colors to keep them consistent. I said that JJ should be going from Cavanaugh to Jarek:

Here is JJ’s first identified maternal crossover.

Next, I’d like to add in the Rathfelder DNA:

The blue is Rathfelder. The matching segments information is how Heather and JJ match their grandmother. This is the same as the blue Rathfelder segments above. Where there isn’t blue Rathfelder DNA, I have put in yellow Hartley DNA.

Heather’s first Jarek descendant match goes from 85M to 109M:

At this point, I am stuck again:

There is a maternal crossover at 85, but I can’t tell if it belongs to JJ or Heather.

A Spreadsheet For JJ and Heather Using Gedmatch Genesis

At Genesis, I used JJ’s and my own DNA to make two more kits for JJ. One has an M1 designation and one is P1 for maternal and paternal. Genesis has a utility called Segment Search. I’ll use this once for JJ’s maternal matches and once for his paternal matches.

JJ’s Maternal Matches

Here are some of JJ’s maternal matches. I downloaded about 1,000 of them:

I made them pink for maternal. The green matches are the ones over 15 cM. JJ’s largest match above is with Heather. Note that JJ has maternal matches on Chromosome 4 between 80 and 89M. That means that he should not have a maternal crossover at 85M. That means that Heather should have the maternal crossover at 85M. Let’s look at Heather’s maternal results next.

Heather’s Maternal Matches at Genesis

Here are Heather’s Chromosome 4 maternal matches:

Notice that Heather has no matches going through position 85. Actually, Heather has matches going up to 84.3 and then starting again at about the same spot or at 85M. This tells me that Heather has a maternal crossover where I thought.

If I did this right, I should find Cavanaugh ancestor matches for Heather and JJ in their orange areas and Jarek ancestor matches in their green areas of Chromosome 4. Unfortunately, Heather and JJ have small matches in their orange areas which means that the relationships represented by those matches could be quite distant.

Near position 14, there aren’t a lot of matches, so I would be guessing more than usual there as to where the crossover goes. What about the right side of Heather and JJ’s Chromosome 4? First I need to figure out where the crossover is. For that I need to look at how JJ and Heather match each other at full resolution:

Each  ^ is 1M, so the change from all green to more yellow is at about 167.6M. Again, neither JJ nor Heather have good matches in that area, so I can’t tell where their maternal crossover is using that method.

Summary and Conclustions

  • I started looking at JJ’s AncestryDNA test results. I first compared JJ’s ethnicity with what his sister Heather showed. JJ shows a more detailed sub-region in England compared to Heather. JJ shows a Baltic region that Heather doesn’t show and Heather shows a France Region that JJ doesn’t have. The overall effect is the same, but the smaller details vary a bit.
  • I looked at how JJ and Heather compare to eatch other with HIRs, FIRs and no-match areas. Using these, I was able to start to visually phase Heather and JJ. I haven’t been able to identify matches along JJ and Heather’s Cavanaugh maternal grandparent side, so that made the phasing a little more difficult. JJ and Heather’s paternal side is already phased by comparing their results to their Rathfelder grandmother.
  • I downloaded JJ and Heather’s maternal matches from Gedmatch Genesis. Some of these matches were helpful in assigning maternal crossovers for their visual phasing maps.
  • Some other things that I could do would be AutoClustering JJ’s AncestryDNA results, more DNA Painting and more match identification. I would still like to figure out at least one match on JJ or Heather’s Cavanaugh side.








A DNA Match With Kristin Who Has Hartley Ancestry and a Possible Hartley Genealogical Breakthrough

I recently noticed that my daughter had a Shared Ancestor Hint with Kristin. Not long ago,  had my daughter Heather’s DNA tested. Kristin is Heather’s first Shared Ancestor Hint (SAH). An SAH means that two people have a DNA match and have a common ancestor or ancestors. Here is what that looks like for Heather:

This shows that Heather and Kristen are 4th cousins. Here is the amount of DNA that Heather and Kristen share:

AncestryDNA predicted that Heather and Kristen would be 4th cousins and they guessed right.

The Hartley Branch of Fall River

Many of my closer Hartley relatives are perhaps not aware of the Fall River branch of the Hartley family. They know that the Hartley family lived in Rochester, Massachusetts. Many know that Greenwood Hartley and Ann Emmet lived in New Bedford before that. However, not many know that Greenwood and Ann were first in Fall River for a short time. Here is the Hartley Family in 1870:

This Census record is very difficult to find in that the last names are all written wrong. Here is how Ancestry sees the name:

I’m glad the Hortcliffe name didn’t stick. Soon after this time, the Hartley family moved to New Bedford. They lived in Fall River for only one or two years.

Abel Burrows

Mary Ann Hartley married Abel Burrows on 12 February 1874- probably in New Bedford.

Abel was later to be a jeweller in Fall River, but at this time he was a weaver. Perhaps Abel and Mary Ann met while she lived in Fall River.

Here is the Burrows family in 1880 at 63 Pleasant Street, Fall River:

This appears to be Mary Ann Hartley Burrows at a Hartley family gathering in Rochester, MA around 1921:

Looking at the photo, my grandmother is to her right.

Connecting the DNA and the Family Tree

Here is the tree that I have so far:

The people in green have had their DNA tested and uploaded to Gedmatch where the DNA can be compared. Emily in yellow has tested at Ancestry, but has not uploaded her results to Gedmatch which is now Gedmatch Genesis. Mary Pilling at the top of the chart is Mary Wilkinson in the 1870 Census. I mentioned Emily here in a Blog on AutoClustering Joyce’s AncestryDNA results.

It looks like Kristin is a close relative to Emily:

Adding a Pilllng Line

Mary Pilling was a single mother before she married Robert Hartley and had Greenwood. Robert then died ans she married Robert Wilkinson:

Ruth is a Shared Match with Kristin and my father’s cousin Joyce.

Shared Matches Between Kristin and Joyce

Kristin may be the key to unlocking clues on my Hartley genealogy. Here are Joyce’s shared matches at AncestryDNA with Joyce, my father’s 1st cousin.

  • Jennifer – I messaged her. She has Williams ancestry and is checking on possible connections
  • Emily and Ruth – They are in the chart in yellow above.
  • Paul – shows two parents in his tree. This could be built out.
  • Luke – He has a private tree. I have sent him a message.
  • Sheryl – She has an ancestor from Colne

Colne is next door to Trawden where my ancestors lived. My ancestors were born, married and buried at the Colne Church.

Bracewell came up in another tree of a shared match of a shared match if that makes sense.

Building Out Paul’s Tree

At the risk of making this a long Blog, I’ll try and build out Paul’s tree. Paul’s parent’s were both from New Bedford, so that is interesting already. My guess is that my match with Paul is on his mother’s side. I wasn’t able to easily fill in all the names, but did make it back to a Hartley and a Bracewell. The Bracewell name is new to me but apparently common to some of these shared matches:

Robert Hartley is an ancestral name, so that is hopeful also. Robert Hartley in the tree above would be Paul’s 5th great-grandfather if I have the tree right. However, having said that, there still are many gaps in the tree and the connection is quite a ways back.

Sheryl’s Tree

This is the one with the Bracewell born 1778 from Colne:

This is as far as I got with the Ancestry suggestions. It seems like the father of Susy Hartley should be John Hartley like in Paul’s tree:

Combining Paul and Sheryl’s Trees

When I combine the two trees, it looks like this:


This means that, on paper, Sheryl and Paul are potentially 6th cousins with each other. I also see that Sheryl has potentially two Bracewell lines. All this gives me a lead to check into.

A Third Bracewell Tree?

I had mentioned above that I had seen a third Bracewell tree. This was from a Shared Match of a Shared Match. My father’s cousin Joyce and Kristin have a shared match with Luke. I mentioned him above, but his tree is locked. So I looked at Shared Matches between Between Luke and Joyce and came up with an additional Shared Match. This shared match is Mark and he is on a list of Shared Matches with Kristin, Paul and Sheryl, so he is in good company, so to speak.

Mark’s Bracewell Ancestors

Here are Mark’s Bracewell Ancestors:

This looks like Ellin Bracewell married John Hackin and they had a child named Margaret Hakin. Mark’s ancestral location map shows his ancestors in orange:

Margaret Hakin is Mark’s ancestor who was born in the area that I am interested in. Does it make sense that Margaret’s mother Ellin was born in New York?

This appears to be the marriage record for John and Ellin:

Here are a few choices for Ellin’s birth record. I’ll go with the more recent one as it has George as the father and it seems more reasonable:

Here is a hint for Ellin’s mother’s name:

Here is a guess for George’s birth:

Here is what I get:

This tree is more confusing as Reuben Speak is shown as the father of Susannah Cronshaw. There is no father’s name given on Susannah’s birth record. It is possible that this is right and that there is another link in Mark’s ancestry to Hartley/Bracewell. However, this route does not easily match with the same Hartley/Bracewell family as the other two DNA matches. The other possibility is that this DNA match is on the Bracewell side only and that Mark matches further back in his ancestrry.

Building Down from Hartley/Bracewell

The next logical step would be to build down from John Hartley born 1730 and his wife Anne Bracewell to see if I can link up my tree to this line.

Here is a tree from Ancestry with John Hartley born 1733 and Anna Bracewell:

This tree has two John’s as sons. A previous tree I looked at had three sons named John.

It looks like John and Anne were married on 23 September 1752 and they both lived in Trawden:

Trawden is good in that my known Hartley ancestors came from there. At this point, I assume that the family stayed in Trawden. I then looked for children born to John Hartley in Trawden:

If Anne lived long enough, she could have had children for 25 years or more. So, until about 1777. Here is the start of my tree:

Then I ran into a snag:

Here is another Robert. Also the mother is called Nanny now which could be a nickname for Anne.

Next is another John:

The mother’s name is back to Anne. If the first John died, then it would make sense if they have another John.

Finally, in 1772, we are back to Nanny:

I’ll add in the extra John above, just in case. I’m looking for a Hartley connection, so I’m more interested in the male Hartley’s.

James Hartley and Betty Baldwin

One of my top guesses for the parents of my ancestor Robert Hartley (father of Greenwood Hartley) is James Hartley and Better Baldwin. What if the James above born 1763 married Betty Baldwin?

One Holgate Tree I see at Ancestry has Elizabeth Southgate as the wife of James Hartley:

I don’t know if the creator had special knowledge of this marriage or if they were guessing.  I searched for this marriage at the Lancashire OnLine Parish Clerks Website and coud not find it.  I would follow up on the tree, but when I search for Elizabeth in trees, I find this:

Perhaps Elizabeth got attached to James above by mistake. It appears that the tree intended to have her married to John Hartley.

Did James the Son of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell Marry Betty Baldwin?

My best guess when I was researching Hartley genealogy was that James Hartley and Betty Baldwin were the most likely parents for Robert Hartley born about 1803. Now shared DNA matches with a good Hartley DNA matches Kristin and Joyce show a common ancestor of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell. This couple has a son named James. I’ll combine these lines and see how it looks:

  • Kristin and Joyce have a Shared Ancestor hint with Greenwood Hartley and Anne Emmet. This genealogical and DNA connection is quite certain.
  • Kristin and Joyce also have shared DNA matches with Sheryl and Paul
  • This shared DNA could be on the Hartley side (Trawden) or the Emmet side (Bacup). Sheryl and Paul have ancestors in the Colne/Trawden area.
  • Sheryl and Paul appear to have the shared ancestors of John Hartley and Anne Bracewell.
  • John Hartley and Anne Bracewell had a son James who could be the father of Robert who was the father of Greenwood Hartley.
  • This would combine my genealogical research with DNA evidence. There may be other explanations, but this one looks good right now – at least good enough to flesh out.

Fleshing Out the New James Hartley (Born 1763) Connection

One other item I see for James in Ancestry trees is his death:

This seems a bit sketchy to me. I have found no marriage record in Ancestry Trees for this James. Why would James be born in Trawden and die in Lancaster?

Lancaster is quite a ways from Colne. Unless, the record means to say that Lancaster represents the County of Lancashire.

Here is the record:

This does show that a James Hartley, son of John Hartley was buried in Lancaster. However, I’m not convinced that this is the same person.

Here is a James Hartley who was buried in Trawden in 1769:


There are many other James Hartley burials in the Colne Parish. Here is another possibility:

This James was 82 in 1845, so he was born about 1763. Here is the same person in 1841:

Little Lather in the Burial record is better rendered on page 2 of the 1841 Census as Little Laith.

Another Elderly James Hartley Farmer South of Trawden Village

Just to confuse things, there is another elderly James Hartley South of Trawden Village:


Little Laithe is listed in the Census as near New Laithe and Hole is listed as near Naze End on Page 11 of the 1841 Trawden Census. These places would be a short walk from each other. I like the second James for a few reasons. One reason is that he is married to Betty, The second is that he lives near Seghole. Mary Pillng who married Robert Hartley was born in Seghole in 1802. I haven’t found death records for this James and Betty Hartley. Perhaps they moved to be with relatives after this time.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Kristin’s DNA match with the Hartley family and especially with Joyce has been helpful
  • Kristin descends from Ann Hartley born 1855, so shared matches with her would be more likely to represent Hartley ancestors from England.
  • I looked at the Hartley’s of Fall River
  • I looked at shared matches between Joyce and Kristin. They had two shared matches that both had the same ancestors: John Hartley born 1730 and Anne Bracewell.
  • I started to build a case that John Hartley had as his son, James Hartley who married Betty Baldwin. They had Robert Hartley who was my 3rd great-grandfather born 1803 in Trawden.
  • I looked at two elderly James Hartley’s in the 1841 Trawden Census. I favored the elder one as a potential 4th great-grandfather because he was married to a Betty and because he lived very close to the birth home of Mary Pilling who was my 3rd great-grandmother.
  • Before I had this match with Kristin, I had no known DNA connection to my Hartley ancestors in Trawden, Lancashire. Kristin’s DNA results appears to have provided that DNA connection and given good evidence and direction for genealogical research.
  • This is a potential break in my genealogical brick wall that I have had for around 25 years. I will do some more work to see if this theory makes sense.


Genealogy for Heather and JJ: Part 8 – More French Canadian Ancestry

In my previous Blog, I wrote about Heather and JJ’s Tacy and Tessier heritage. I was able to trace Tacy back to Tessier in Canada outside of Montreal. They were farmers from the Parish of St. Benoit:

I couldn’t figure out Phoebe’s maiden name or much about her, but I traced Tessier and Bernard back to France in the 1600’s. I had some trouble tracing back the lines of Barbary, Boudria and Lejuiller.


Barbary is a surname that I am unfamiliar with. A search on WikiTree shows about 82 Barbary’s there.

Marguerite Barbary

Let’s start with Marguerite. I have that she married Solomon Tessier. That was based on the baptismal record for their son Joseph Claude Tessier:

This shows that Joseph Claude Tessier was born on 20 February 1834 at the Parish of St. Benoit.

I had a surprise at WikiTree:

I was surprised to see someone had Maguerite Barbary married to Benjamin Clement on 21 Nov 1831. I have that she married Salomon Tessier on 16 May 1831.

Perhaps there were two Marguerite Barbary’s that got married in the same year in the same area outside Montreal. Wouldn’t that be confusing? I went forward in the St. Benoit Parish records and found this:

This is actually good to know as I was thinking that our Marguerite was the daughter of Francois Barbary. Let’s take a closer look. The November wedding has the bride being Marie Marguerite Grand maison. The Barbary is missing.

From the marriage record, I can’t figure out who the parents are of this Marie Marguerite. What this means is that I need to be very careful when I pick out the parents for Marguerite Barbary. Here is the WikiTree Marguerite:

The problem is that I don’t know if this tree is right or not. I think that the WikiTree Marguerite should be Marie Marguerite.

Finding the Right Marguerite Barbary

I see that Ancestry shows two Marguerite’s when I do a search:

Our Marguerite is supposed to be born about 1809 and the WikiTree Marguerite 1810. Here is the 1806 Baptism:

Here is the summary:

I can make out Amable on the record, but not so much Barbary after her father’s name. I’ll move on the to next record and come back to this if I have to.

Here is the 1814 Baptism:

Here is the summary:

It appears that this baptism is for the WikiTree Marguerite. I can read the parents and they are Francois Barbary and Marguerite Duroscher.

Back To 1806

That leaves the previous Baptismal record as the best available for Marguerite. However, it brings up a few questions. Why is she called Marguerite Amable? Perhaps Amable was a middle name for Marguerite. I don’t see much online for Amable genealogy. According to Ancestry, the Amable surname is very rare with only a handful in the US in 1880 and 1920.

Let’s try another route. Marguerite had a daughter named Harriet. She married Charles Jay or Gay in 1871 in Lowell. Charles was a 37-year-old mason:

Charles was living in Tewksbury at the time of his marriage. This was Charles’ second marriage.

Charles was born in Canada. Harriet’s birthplace is listed as Fort Livingston, but I think it should be Fort Covington.

I found a Charles Joy in the Massachusetts Marriage Index. I could also try that. I had trouble tracking this couple after they married. Perhaps it was due to confusion over the husband’s last name. My idea was to find a death record for Harriet but I had trouble finding the correct version of her last name.

Back To Giles At Geneanet

I had mentioned Giles in my previous Blog. He maintains quite the Tessier Tree. Perhaps Giles has some more clues for me:

Of note here is that Joseph’s wife is given as Phebe Sawyer. I had that as a possibility and then took the Sawyer name out. It looks like Joseph had quite a few siblings.

Giles used the same baptismal year that I used:

He also notes the day of birth.

Giles and Salomon

Here is Giles’ tree for Salomon:


Here it is easy to see why The marriage for Joseph Tessier and Marie Louise Boudrias was earlier than I thought it would be. They were busy having many babies before they had Salomon. Marie had children for 29 years? She must have started young. She was perhaps 16 when she had her first child.

Checking Boudria With Giles

Giles has this information for Marie Louise Boudrias:

Given the timing of her children, she would almost have to be born then. That makes my date wrong:

Giles to the rescue. I see that I have Marie Louise born in Aquitane France which doesn’t make sense either. I’ll just use Giles better information. While I’m borrowing information, I’ll check out another web site:

This site has a fleece waterproof trouser ad. This tree even cites sources which sounds reputable. Again, this seems to show that my tree was wrong. Perhaps the Ancestry hints were not so good here. Using that site and a couple hopefully better Ancestry hints, I get this for Salomon Tessier’s ancestry:

Barbary At the Genealogy of Canada Website

I had good luck at the Genealogy of Canada Website, so I’ll continue on with Barbary.

This site has the same parents that I had for Marguerite, but it includes dates. I think I’ll stop here and continue in my next Blog.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Thanks to other websites, I was able to check the work that I had done – mostly on the ancestors of Salomon Tessier aka Solomon Tacy.
  • The different spelling of names, dit names, faded French writing and similar names in a similar area and time make it difficult to put a tree together.
  • The Ancestry Hints apparently run into the same problem and gave me some wrong hints.
  • All these families have interesting histories. However, I have to get the names and dates down first. For example, I read that the first Tessier to come to Montreal, Urbain, fought the Iriquois in the 1600’s. He was captured and managed to escape. However, he was missing one of his fingers as a result of his ordeal.




Genealogy for Heather and JJ: Part 7 – Tacy/Tessier

In my previous Blog, I made an important discovery. I found the birth record for my children’s maternal third great-grandfather Joseph Tacy baptized Joseph Claude (or Plaude?) Tessier. It is difficult to trace one’s ancestor across a border. This is due to language differences, changes in names, different political systems and differences in recording and availability of vital records.

Taking Tessier Back

French Canada has a very good and complete set of records. Once one is back to a certain time period, a lot of these records are in books. Let’s see how easy it is to trace Tacy, which we now know is Tessier, back into the history of Canada. In my previous Blog, I had this 1860 Census record:

This shows that there were three generations of Tacy living near each other. Now I know that Solomon is indeed the father of Joseph Tacy.

Solomon Tessier Born about 1808

When I search for Solomon Tessier at Ancestry, here is the first suggestion:

Here we have the French spelling for Solomon and Margret: Salomon and Marguerite. I’d like to take a closer look at this record:

I have to try to figure out the writing and then use an online translator. It looks like this couple married on the 16th of May 1831. I think that the names of Marguerite’s and Salomon’s parents should be in this record if I can find them.

Here is Salomon’s father:

Joseph is the first name followed by Tessier and the occupation. Looking at a French genealogical word list, this is my guess:

journalier day laborer, farmworker

Salomon’s mother’s name is not as simple:

I get the idea of the first two names. The last, I’m not so sure. Hopefully, someone else has figured this out before me.

It looks like I cut off the last part of the name in the previous image. Perhaps Baudria. [Looks like this ends up being Boudria.]

Marguerite’s Parents

Marguerite Barbary’s dad’s name is also Joseph with the nickname grand maison (large house?). He looks to be a farmer also.

It looks like Marguerite’s mom was also a Barbary:

These last four ancestors must have been born in the 1700’s:

A Marriage for Joseph Tessier and Marie Louise Boudria

This marriage appeared at an earlier date than I expected. It is in the Drouin Collection, 1748-1786:

This must be 1785.

This document is easier to read, but doesn’t have much detail:

These are Notarial Records. Now Joseph Tessier is J Bte Texier. I think I see what happened:

Back up to the Drouin record. This says that Joseph Tessier is the son of Jean Baptiste Tessier, hence J. Bte. Texier. I wouldn’t recommend this Notary.

Joseph’s mom appears to be Marguerite Bernard:

Fortunately, at this point, I am beginning to get suggestions from Ancestry:

Both Jean Baptiste and Marguerite were entered under Ancestry suggestions. I note that Jean Baptiste is also Lavigne. This is a dit name which is sort of a nickname. I read under a family tree owner from my last Blog that Lavigne was so-called because one of the early Tessier’s liked wine.

Getting Past Marie Louise Boudria

Here is another Notarial Record for Marie:

This record is a Testament. Genealogical dictionary says that means last will which makes sense. Here is Terrebonne to the North of the Northernmost of the Three Montreal Rivers:

Marie’s dad is Joseph:

Marie’s mother:

After waiting a bit, I get a hint for Marie Louise. The hint is either Lejuiller (7 hints) or Leguiller (3 hints). I’ll play the odds with Lejuiller.

Here is a new tree:

This gets back to the 1600’s on some lines.

Chalon Sur Saone

One of Heather and JJ’s ancestors was from Chalon Sur Saone (or at least he died there). This is interesting as my wife, Marie, has been having a French exchange with this place for several years:

Here is one of my wife’s photos of Chalon from last year:

Jolicoeur was Jean Baptiste’s dit name: pretty heart?

Urbain Tessier

Urbain was the first Tessier from France. Here is where he appears to be from in France:

Urbain arrived in Montreal in 1648. The family stayed in the area for about 200 years. One part of that family then moved to New York. I read on one web site that Canada was running out of farm land around Montreal so French Canadians moved over the border to Upstate New York. Then opportunities were available for work in New England factories and many moved there for work. It was at that time that some of the Tacy’s moved to Lowell.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I was able to find many marriage and birth records for the Tessier family and their ancestors and spouses. These records in French handwriting are difficult to read but not impossible and follow a certain order or formula.
  • Once back to about the mid 1700’s, these ancestors were written into books which are available on
  • It is interesting to fairly easily follow these lines back to where these famiilies lived in France in the 1600’s. One line went back to a small town in France called Chalon sur Saone. Coincidentally, my French teacher wife has been having a school exchange with this Town for many years.
  • I still have not been able to identify the wife of Joseph Tessier who lived in Fort Covington, NY.
  • I also have not taken the Barbary and Boudria Lines back.