Following Up On a Frazer ThruLines Shared Match

In my previous Blog, I was looking at a ThruLines match I have named Susan. When I looked at Susan’s ThruLines, it seemed to confirm that we share the common ancestors of Michael Frazer born about 1764 in County Roscommon Ireland and Margaret Stewart. Susan and I had one Shared DNA Match named Patrice

Building a Tree for Patrice

Patrice’s DNA and tree was managed by someone else. The other person had a larger tree, but only a smaller tree for Patrice. I built out Patrice’s tree out to her 2nd great-grandparents like this:

This was a pretty quick and dirty tree and I used mostly Ancestry hints to get out this far. I was worried I wouldn’t find a connection. Then Mary Fraser showed up:

My guess is that Mary is the one to follow. She has 16 Ancestry hints. In this Civil War Pension record, she is Mary M McKay:

Every initial is potentially important in following Mary’s trail.

Here is the 1860 Census:

This helps us trace the McKay family geographically. This means that the family should have been in Canada between 1846 and 1853.

Bell above is Isabella. She seems to have been born in Warwick, Canada:

That opens the door to Canada:

Above is my best guess for Warwick.

Here is another interesting record from Warwick:

Apparently a John Stewart Fraser McKay was also born to Hugh and Mary M McKay in the town of Ancaster in 1850. From what I can tell, this is Ancaster:

That gives us a short chronology for the Hugh McKay family. The family is living in Ancaster outside of Hamilton in September 1850 when John Stewart Frazer is born. The Ontario 1851 Census doesn’t happen until January 1852. We don’t know where the family was living at that time. Isabella McKay is born June 1853 in Warwick, Ontario. The family is still in Warwick when both children are baptized in April 1854 at a Wesleyan Methodist Church by the Reverend George Case.

The naming of John Stewart Fraser McKay seems to be a clue as to Mary’s background:

Trying to Place Mary Fraser in the Frazer Family

Mary states that she was born in New York, but I wonder. I think that she was born in County Roscommon, Ireland. Here is one guess for her birth:

Here is an online view of Mary:

Although the date seems to fit for Mary, I was expecting her to be from the James Line of Frazers due to the shared DNA match between Patrice and myself. I have that the Mary from Roscommon would be from the Archibald Line under John Frazer. This is what I have so far for DNA matches on that line:

My guess is that Mary could fit in between John Frazer and William Frazer above.

How Could Mary Be On the Archibald Frazer Line?

Patrice, Susan and I have shared DNA matches. That does not mean that we share the same ancestors. For that to happen, I would need to show triangulation which is not possible with Ancestry results. I have two Archibald Frazer Line ancestors and one James Line Ancestor. My match to Susan is on the James Line. It looks like my match to Patrice is on the Archibald Line. Patrice may match Susan distantly on the Frazer side or more closely on a non-Frazer line.

Review of the John Frazer Branch

In my pink DNA/genealogy chart above, I have brothers John and William Frazer. I have that John was probably in Canada in 1849 and in Niagara County, New York in 1851. That was my explanation why I couldn’t find him in the Canadian 1851 Census nor in the US Census of 1850. Perhaps Mary took a similar route. John spent most of his time in Lockport, New York.

William Frazer Born 1828

When William married in 1863, he was living in Tecumseth Township, Ontario. In 1871 William and family were in Gwillimbury West, Ontario. Here is a map:

Mary was living in Ancaster in 1850. John was in Canada in 1849 but moved probably to Lockport by 1851 and was in Lockport, NY in 1855. William was in Tecumseth in 1863 when he married Mary Jane Wilson.

An Additional ThruLine to Add to the Evidence (Or Confusion)

Ancestry has provided me with this additional ThruLine:

Here ThruLines did something that I would consider doing. It found a match between me and Bob and matched our two trees together based on an available Anne I had in my tree on the John Frazer Branch. I was having trouble placing this McPartland Branch. My most recent guess had them on the James Line:

Ann Frazer and the McPartland Branch: Archibald Line or James Frazer Line?

I can see some arguments for having the McPartlands under the Archibald Line and John Frazer Branch:

  • I have a baptismal record for 6 Jan 1823    bpt.      Anne dau. of Archibald and Jane (WHITE)
  • The McPartlands settled around the Buffalo area. This is not far from Lockport where John Frazer from the John branch lived.

Adding Bob to the McPartland DNA/Genealogy Tree

I see that I am missing Bob from the McPartland tree above. So I need to add him in:

Summary and Conclusions

This Blog was more of an exploratory Blog rather than one that came up with conclusions. I was looking into a Shared match between someone on a Michael Frazer ThruLine and myself. That shared match was Patrice. I looked into her tree and found a Fraser named Mary. I expected that this Mary would fit into my Michael Frazer ancestry. However, she seemed to fit in better with a John Frazer Branch. I am also related distantly on the John Frazer side. To complicate matters more, Mary consistently claimed that she was born in New York State rather than Ireland. In addition, I have found no record stating who Mary’s parents were. Mary lived in the same area of Ontario that both the Michael and John Branches of Frazers migrate to.

Finally, when checking around for other possible shared DNA matches, I came upon Bob. He shows in a ThruLine with me as being potentially from the John Line of Frazers. I had also tentatively placed his McPartland Line on the James Frazer Line of Frazers. James was the father of Michael Frazer. At that point, the Blog went spiralling out of control and I went into Frazer genetic genealogy overload. I decided that rather than put Mary and Bob into the John Frazer Line, that I would step back, think about it and do more analysis on the DNA and genealogy. I did add Bob to the McPartland DNA/genealogy tree. To complicate matters, Karen and Chris above tested with FTDNA, Charlene tested at MyHeritage, and Bob tested at AncestryDNA. However, I believe that all four have posted their results at Gedmatch which is now Gedmatch Genesis. This should make analysis of their DNA results easier.

Susan is Back on My Michael Frazer ThruLines

At my first look at ThruLines I had an interesting match with Susan. Unfortunately, her ThruLines went away. I predicted that she might come back and she did. Here she is again:

After Susan disappeared I tried tracing her ancestry back anyway, but got stuck at her Patterson great-grandmother level.

Building Susan’s Tree: Part 2

Here is where I got stuck last time:

Between James Hazzard and Mary Jane Patterson, we go from Susan’s tree to Barry’s tree on ThruLines. Here is a nice record I would like to borrow from Barry’s tree:

Here are James’ parents:

I have James’ mother as Mary Jane. Here she shows as Mary. In Barry’s tree she is Mary Jane. This critical marriage record ties together Barry’s and Susan’s trees.

According to Barry’s tree, Jane was quite young when she married. At least by today’s standards:

Here I owe a lot to Barry:

Jane dies young at thirty one years eight months. That would put her birth in 1854.

Making the Jump from Patterson to Frazer

From Mary Jane, I need to figure out how to get back to Frazer. Here, Barry shows that way again:

This is Catherine’s second marriage. Here she is linked to Arthur, Ontario. She is also linked to Ireland and Archibald Fraser and Catharine Nott. She went from marrying a ‘Pattison’ to a Patton. Without Barry’s tree, I think I would have struggled with this genealogy.

Here is the Township of Arthur:

Here is Catherine in 1861 not too long after her second marriage to Andrew Patton:

I’m glad to see Jane listed here also. This family of four lived  in a log house. Here is a map of where these families lived in 1861 in Southeast Arthur:

A Sneak Preview of Where We May Be Headed with Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott

Here is my combined DNA/genealogy chart:

It looks like Susan should end up under the orange circle. I am in the left branch. That is in green because I’m mostly sure that is right. The same is true for the McPartland Branch which is also under Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott. If I match Susan and she is in this group, that adds to the likelihood that I have it right.

Here is Catherine’s death record:

Here she is listed as being born in  County Sligo. Many Frazers were from North Roscommon, but some were over the border in County Sligo. Here is a birth record from Kilmactranny Parish in County Sligo for an Ann Jane:

Anne Jane Frazer  daughter of  Archibald and Catherine Frazer
Born  Dec 13, 1828                                                     
Bapt.  Dec 17, 1828

If Susan’s Catherine was born between 1830 and 1842, it would not show as there is a gap in the Kilmactranny Registers for that period. The other issue is that I have that Archibald and Catherine were married in 1829 at Kilmactranny:

Mar 02, 1829    Archibald Frazer of Ardcarne

                                         Catherine Knott of Kilmactranny

                                             Witnesses:  Archd. Frazer,  Cath Frazer

That means that the Ann Jane above could have been the daughter of a different Archibald and Catherine Frazer.

Here is the Patton family in 1871 with a few extra children:

Putting It Together – Margaret and Catherine Frazer

If I have it right, the genealogy probably looks like this:

This shows that I descend from Margaret Frazer who was the sister of Susan’s 2nd great-grandfather Archibald Frazer.

My James Line Discrepancy

Unfortunately, my chart above doesn’t match what I have on Ancestry Tree.

I show Archibald and Catherine coming from Archibald Frazer and Catherine Peyton. I do show a Mary born much later married to Richard Hazzard. So the Hazzard names comes up more than once.

In addition to this, I have two different versions of the James Line on my Frazer web pages. In one, I followed one Frazer researcher and in the other I followed another Frazer researcher. My combined DNA/genealogy chart is more in line with my Frazer Web Page called Production Update:

The difference here is that I am missing Margaret which is the line I descend from. It appears that Margaret should be the eldest daughter of Michael Frazer born in 1794 and married to William McMaster. Above, there is another tie-in as I see that the above genealogy from my Frazer web page has Archibald dying in Arthur Township in 1866. That was where Catherine Frazer lived. Here is an entry at the Find A Grave Website:

Here is Kenilworth:

Here is a better version for my Ancestry Tree:

Here I still have a problem, as I have Catherine Peyton Frazer born in 1829 to Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott. I believe that the Catherine of this Blog was just plain Catherine and likely born to a different Archibald and Catherine Frazer. I’ll say that Susan’s Catherine was born in 1834.

Here is the family in the 1851 Census:

Here are the ages:

This family lived in a log house. Jane was born in Ireland in 1845 according to this Census, so the family moved to Canada between 1845 and 1852. Here is A. Frazer’s farm in 1861:

Kenilworth is near the middle of the Arthur map:

The upper circle is for Frazer. The lower circle is where Catherine Frazer Patton lived in 1861.

A Short Story of Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott

It helps me to put some of these events into a narrative. Archibald Frazer was born about 1801 probably in Ardcarn Parish North Roscommon. His parents were Michael Frazer and Margaret probably Stewart. In 1829 he married Catherine Knott from Kilmactranny Parish in Sligo at the Kilmactranny Church. Witnesses at the wedding were another Archibald Frazer and Catherine Frazer. Their first daughter Catherine may have been born as early as December 1829:

The records appear to show two different Catherine’s baptized in October and December of 1829. Archibald and Catherine were married 2 March 1829, so if this is Susan’s Catherine she would have had a little over 9 months to be born.

The couple had at least seven children. They were born between about 1829 and 1846:

  1. Catherine
  2. William Wynn
  3. Margaret Stewart
  4. James
  5. Fitzgerald
  6. Michael
  7. James

Probably around 1844, Archibald’s older sister (my ancestor) Margaret Frazer McMaster moves to Ontario with her three daughters and a son. Between 1846 and 1852, the Archibald Frazer family moves to Canada and settle on a farm in Kenilworth, Arthur, Wellington County, Ontario. In 1852,. By 1852, the oldest daughter, Catherine had been already married twice – first to Thomas Patterson or Pattison and then to Andrew Patton. Catherine has two daughters with Thomas and more children with Andrew. Catherine Patton lives on a farm also in Arthur in 1852.

The Census for 1861 is a little difficult to read:

Here it looks like the eldest son, William Wynn Fraser, has married – probably Rachel Reid. Likely widowed, she is 36 and a 13 year old Reid is living with them. They then have two of their own children. Either Archibald married another Catherine or she has not aged at all in 9 years.


Here is Catherine in 1871. She is now widowed and living with her two single sons:

Another Correction: Jane Frazer

In my tree above that I moved, I had Jane Frazer married to a Hazzard. That is apparently not right:

Perhaps she married again later?

Summary and Conclusions

  • I’m glad that Susan came back on my ThruLines. It allowed me to track the likely connection we have through common ancestors Michael Frazer and his wife in County Roscommon, Ireland
  • I was able to trace Susan’s Canadian ancestry from Hazzard to Patterson, to Fraser or Frazer.
  • Susan’s ancestors that made the move from Ireland to Ontario were Archibald Frazer and Catherine Knott.
  • I have long known that I had a Frazer ancestor named Margaret who married a William McMaster. I only recently discovered that Margaret made here way to Ontario. I am now following up on her apparent brother Archibald’s family in Ontario.
  • Susan and I also have a shared DNA match. It may be worthwhile to check that connection out.
  • It would also take a bit more to tell the longer story of this family in Canada. I see from my DNA/genealogy chart descendants of Fitzgeral and Michael Frazer. They likely know their ancestors’ stories better than I do.



My Strange McMaster ThruLIne

I have a strange McMaster ThruLine. There is some confusion on McMaster genealogy and the Ancestry computers have tied in to that confusion. It seems as if they make a stab in the dark in some cases. Here is my McMaster ThruLine:

I shouldn’t complain, because I have a DNA match with Catherine and there may be some valid match to my McMaster ancestors of County Sligo. One problem with the tree above is that it is not likely that there were two brothers by the same name. The second problem is that the Abraham on the right was said to be born in 1805. This would be when Archibald was 75 if I have my birth for him right.

Catherine’s Computerized Ancestry

Here is the breakdown from Ancestry’s computers:

Catherine has her mother from her own tree. Then her maternal Meehan grandfather is from Fred’s tree. Michael Meehan is from Victoria, Austrailia. Next, Elizabeth McMaster was from my own tree. I have this on my McMaster web site:

Complete with typos. So things look OK there. I can fix Ancestry’s Frankenstein tree with my own combination DNA/genealogy tree:

I have that James and Archibald had another brother named Robert, but I left him out for clarity. That means I have Catherine more closely related to me than Ancestry does. I am a fourth cousin once removed to Catherine. This was a case where it was worthwhile to look at more distant relatives in ThruLines.

Catherine’s DNA

Next, I checked to see if I had any shared DNA matches with Catherine. These shared matches have 20 cM or more of DNA. As I match Catherine by 14 cM, my chances were low, but I found a mother and daughter pair that I am familiar with. They are BV and Cheryl. Here is BV’s tree starting with her mother’s mother’s mother Maryann:

The problem is that I have Maryann in this tree:

BV’s tree has Abraham as the father of William McMaster. I don’t think that BV’s Ancestry tree is right for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that these two famliies lived in different areas. As these McMasters were farmers with three generation leases, they were somewhat tied to the land. The second reason is that Fanny McMaster married James McMaster. If Fanny descends from Abraham, that would mean that she married her Uncle James McMaster as James was the son of Abraham McMaster. Here is my solution:


Based on land records there was a John McMaster who lived in the area where William lived. He could have been William’s father and Abraham’s son. Say he was born about 1760. He could have been the eldest son of Archibald. Traditionally men named the eldest son for their father. For me, this is the best way to explain the McMaster family based on the DNA and land records. Under the above scenario, Fanny married her first cousin once removed. It would not be unusual to marry your first cousin in those days. I think that it would have been unusual to marry your Uncle. The above scenario would put Catherine and BV at 5th cousins.

Summary and Conclusions

  • I appreciate Ancestry’s ThruLines. Even the ones that are not right can be good hints as they are based on DNA and some sort of computer based pasted genealogy.
  • I easily fit Catherine in to existing McMaster families.
  • BV is a shared match between me and Catherine.
  • This shared match brought up a connection between McMasters that I had previously proposed in a previous blog based on a descendant of Samuel McMaster born 1853.


A Strange Frazer LIneage at ThruLines

I was going through all my ThruLines. Here is one that caught my eye:

The first thing that I noticed was that I had an extra Archibald 5th great-grandfather. I suppose that is all right because I am descended from him twice from what I can tell. This potential Archibald was said to be born in 1732 in Armagh:

Here are the ThruLines:

ThruLines mysteriously added a William Frazer to Archibald. This is despite the fact that the tree above had no William as a son and the William Fraser tree had no parents for William.

Going up from MA, ThruLines starts with MA’s private tree up to MA’s grandfather. Then it switches to Heather’s tree for two generations. Add on Merilyn’s tree for two generations ending with Lee’s tree at the top. Perhaps the Ancestry computers had a bad night.

Working Out MA’s Lineage

I can build a tree for MA, but it will be a little tricky. MA’s mother is listed as living and private. As a result, I don’t have a surname for MA. However, that shouldn’t matter. When I click on MA’s grandfather, I see this:

Ancestry gives me hints but they are all for Johnston Magill Fraser. This is not bad as the connection between the Johnston and Frazer families is known to have occurred in County Roscommon. I like to hold off on accepting tree hints at Ancestry. Here is a birth for Johnston in Peel County, Ontario:

Here is Johnston in 1953:

Here is Johnston in 1911:

Johnston’s father William was a farmer in Chinguacousy, Ontario. Under race or tribe, William and his children are listed as Irish and William’s wife Maud is listed as English. Irish is a good clue.

Looks like the former Chinguacousy is near current-day Brampton:

Moving Back a Generation to William John Frazer

According to the Census, William was born in Ontario in November 1869. This appears to be William in 1891 in Chinguacousy:

This gets us up to John Frazer born in Ireland in about 1832.

John Fraser Born About 1832 In Ireland

This John has 16 hints at Ancestry. I don’t see John’s original marriage record, but this information looks to be important:

Here we find out where Johnston got his middle name. Also, we now have John’s parents names: James and Elizabeth. Here is the family in 1861:

John would have named his first son after his father. I don’t see James in the 1871 Census.

Now I’m running out of hints at Ancestry. Here is one:

Here is a son of John named James Johnston Fraser. This is his marriage record. My guess is that John Fraser’s mother may have been a Johnston. Another possibility is that Jane McGill’s mother may have been a Johnston also, but I associate the Stinson name with Frazer.

David – Another John Fraser Descendant

I match another person by DNA who descends from John Fraser. He is David. This is his tree on his maternal side:

Back in 2015, I suggested that he should be in the Richard Frazer Branch of the Frazers based on triangulation and the fact that there was an available James in that Line who was unattached.

David is on the line on the left. Here I have added MA:

I’m not sure that David fully embraced being in this tree. I have had my doubts also, but my rationale still holds from 2015. Here is my triangulation analysis from 2015:

This shows that David triangulates by DNA with me (JH), my sister (HHM), Bill (BR) and Jane on Chromosome 12:

Since 2015, I can add Ken, Susan and Gladys to the list of those who triangulate with David. Here is Susan’s match with David – also on Chromosome 12:

The strength of triangulation is that it indicates a common ancestor. The problem is that the common ancestor is not always obvious. In this case, the common ancestor could be with Richard or his unknown wife or the common ancestor could be the parents of Richard’s unknown wife. However, if the ancestor is on the Frazer side, it seems like Richard would be the correct person as a lot of other Frazers have tested and David would be matching them also.

Back To My ThruLines Tree to MA

I don’t think that this tree can pass the straight face test.

This tree is OK up to John Fraser than it falls apart. John’s parents were James and Elizabeth Fraser. Ancestry picked a couple in Scotland who lived around that time with those names.

However, this couple does not show that they had a son named John born in Ireland. This couple would have had to have moved to Ireland and then had John. However, this tree has this James living in Scotland in 1861 and dieing there in 1869. They would have had to have moved to Ireland, had John and then moved back to Scotland.

William Fraser

The same problem exists for William. I have seen no other record indicating that Archibald had a son named William. If he did, he would have had to have traveled to Scotland from Ireland, had William and then traveled back. It all seems quite unlikely.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Ancestry used a DNA match I had with MA and stitched together a very unlikely link between me and MA
  • I built out MA’s tree and saw that it matched the genealogy of David who I also had a DNA match with
  • I had shown previously that David Triangulates with other Richard Frazer descendants. Richard was said to have a son named James born around the time that David and MA’s brick wall ancestor James was born.
  • Based on the triangulation I had put David in the Richard Branch of the Frazer line. I added MA to that Branch also.
  • I can’t tell if MA also triangulates with the other members of the Richard Frazer Branch as she has not uploaded her DNA results to Gedmatch.
  • With ThruLines, I will likely be repeating this process for other ‘strange’ lines.

A James McMaster Branch Found with ThruLines and Genealogy

In a previous Blog, I set out to write about four McMaster sisters. One of them was my third great-grandmother Fanny McMaster. In the process of writing about them, I discovered that Fanny’s mother Margaret Frazer McMaster had traveled to Canada with the family. I later found out that the sisters had a brother James who moved from Canada to the US. His mother Margaret lived with his family before he died.

James McMaster in ThruLines

Recently while I was going through my ThruLines, I came upon a DNA match, Jennifer, from this newly added James Branch:

Fanny incorrectly shows as my 4th great aunt for some reason. This also shows Fanny’s sister Mary Ann McMaster and Fanny’s brother James Archibald McMaster. I match Jennifer at 14 cM which would be normal for a 4th cousin once removed. Jennifer’s tree in dotted line goes up to her grandfather Paul McMaster. After that, my tree takes over with James A McMaster.

The above ThruLines probably appeared after I added James Archibald McMaster to my tree based on my previous Blog.

Connecting Two McMaster Trees

My guess is that these two trees should connect. Jennifer has that her father was born in Green Bay, Wisconsin. That would be the right part of the US. I have that James A McMaster died in Allouez and was buried in Woodlawn Cemetery in Green Bay:

Here is the Cemetery location:

Here is James A in Janesville, WI in 1870:

Here is some more information about James A McMaster from Find A Grave:

Here is James in 1900 in South Dakota:

I don’t see any Paul yet. I suppose Harry P could be Harry Paul. I’m going about this backwards as genealogists are supposed to go from the present to the past. I am going from the less recent to the more recent.

The James Archibald McMaster Family in 1910

Now the family moved back East to Hutchins, Wisconsin. James’ wife Carrie died and Harry P is now Paul. That seems to cement the connection between my tree and Jennifer’s.


Adding Jennifer to the DNA/Genealogy Chart

I don’t have Jennifer in green as she has not uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch as far I know.

The MTrent Connection

Next, I checked to see if I had any shared matches with Jennifer. One name came up at AncestryDNA: mtrent. Mtrent had gotten in touch with me in 2017:

Hi Joel. Your name is on my DNA list. I noticed that your Fanny McMaster has info sources from Kilmactranny parish. My 3x great grandfather, James Archibald McMaster was born in Kilmactranny in 1822, immigrated to US via Ontario, Canada. His mother was Margaret, based on census records, born around 1790. Was wondering if you have any information on my branch of the family? I looked at William and Margaret, Fanny’s parents as possible parents for James A,but you have only daughters listed for them. Do you have information on my line of the McMasters? Any info appreciated. Sincerely,

It wasn’t until this year that I discovered the connection. Mtrent’s tree is private, so I don’t know the specific path to mtrent has to James McMaster. However, mtrent is one generation down from Jennifer, so that would make us 5th cousins.

McMaster and Frazer and AutoClustering

I performed an AutoCluster last year when these first came out. Here was my first AncestryDNA autocluster:

This was a simple autocluster with only 5 clusters. The purple Frazer Cluster is relevant to this Blog. BV is the first match in the Cluster. Her ancestors are William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. The next match is Whitney. She matches BV and Gladys the third match. BV and Gladys do not match in this analysis. Gladys matches on my Frazer side.

In January this year, I wrote a Blog about my sister Lori’s 29 AutoClusters at Ancestry and noted this break-down:

Lori’s Irish Clusters were in a big box in the middle of her autocluster analysis. BV and mtrent are in Lori’s green Cluster 12:


So a Blog I wrote on my third great granmother’s sisters strongly suggested that James was in the William McMaster/Mararet Frazer family. I added James McMaster to that tree and ThruLines found a descedant of James named Jennifer who matched me by DNA. I looked for shared DNA matches between Jennifer and me and found one that went by mtrent. Mtrent had mentioned that she was descended from James McMaster in 2017. I now know that her guess that James was a son of William McMaster and Margaret Frazer was right. Identifying mtrent’s ancestry may give further hints for other shared matches.

Jane’s Frazer ThruLines Gone Wrong

In my previous Blog on Frazer ThruLines, I looked at Gladys’ ThruLines. Gladys likely descends from three Frazer brothers: Philip, Richard and Archibald.

Jane’s Genealogy

Jane probably descends from two of brothers – Richard and Archibald. I put Jane in the Richard Line several years ago based on her many DNA matches and she seems to fit there. Here is the Richard Branch with descendants who have had their DNA tested:

This next Archibald brother Branch is quite large, so I’ll just show Jane’s Archibald, son of Archibald Branch:

Jane’s Frazer ThruLines

Jane has given me access to look at her DNA matches, so I can also look at her ThruLines. ThruLines is supposed to match trees to DNA matches. This gives additional assurance that the genealogy was done correctly.

As I look at Jane’s Frazer ThruLines, I see a problem:

The first problem is that there are no DNA matches at Jane’s 2nd great-grandfather level. The second is that the ThruLines switch from Jane’s tree at her grandfather to K8777’s tree at her Great-grandfather level. At that level Jane appears to have the wrong great-grandfather. Oh my.

What Went Wrong with Jane’s ThruLines?

I have a similar problem with my Frazer grandmother’s mother. ThruLines is sure that her step-mother was her biological mother and I haven’t been able to fix that.

Here is Jane’s tree starting with her paternal grandfather:

Jane’s tree has Richard P Frazser as the son of Archibald Frazer. k87777 has Richard’s father as Alexander Fraser.


Here is K8777:

Hmm, what about k8777’s tree?

I don’t see the Fraser name here in k8777’s direct ancestor tree. My guess is that Ancestry likes trees with a lot of records. Here is k8777’s tree:

That is almost 2 records per person. That is a lot.

Here is k8777’s Alexander Fraser:

unfortunately, the Alexander had a William Fraser also born in 1878:

Jane’s William P Fraser

Jane has a lot of references, so I think that ThruLines should have used Jane’s William P Fraser. In fact, Jane has a ton of records in her Fraser Tree:

Another ThruLines Switch

Here is the end of Jane’s Fraser ancestry according to ThruLines:

The tree switches again to Rachel’s tree and ends with a proposed Fraser 3rd great-grandfather for Jane who is wrong. This is pretty bad. I don’t understand how Ancestry could have done such a poor job. Jane has a ton of Frazer DNA matches and good genealogy to go with it. Whatever formula they are using didn’t work for Jane.


A Detailed Look at BVs McMaster and Frazer DNA

The initials BV come up a lot in my Frazer DNA research. My family and I also have a significant DNA match to BV. This is because we are related to BV on two lines (Frazer and McMaster) and in two different ways and also due the fact that we randomly have a higher than average DNA match-up.

BV’s Genealogy with DNA-Tested Descendants

The obvious connection between BV, My family, Emily, Paul and Keith is with William McMaster and Margaret Frazer who were born in the late 1700’s. BV goes back one more generation than others on the tree as she had only two ancestors in the 19th century. Compared with me, I had four ancestors descending from the same common ancestors above in the 19th century.

I have put a green box around two of my other ancestors. They are George Frazer and James McMaster. They would match BV further back. George comes from two other Branches of the Frazer family whose common ancestor is Archibald Frazer born about 1690. I’m not as sure of the connection on the McMaster side, but my assumption is that there is a connection – either in Ireland or Scotland. Because these connections go further back, the DNA matches may not reflect these more distant relationships.

BV – The DNA

Here is how I match BV, who is my 3rd cousin, twice removed, by DNA.

Based on this DNA match, there should be 3.9 generations to our common ancestor. There are four generations between BV and our common ancestor, but six between me and our common ancestor. That averages out to 5 generations. That means that BV and I share about one more generation’s worth of DNA than expected.

Let’s Paint BV’s DNA Match

I can paint BV’s DNA onto mine using a program called DNA Painter. This is what I have painted so far:

This shows my paternal DNA on the top bar and the maternal on the bottom. For me, Frazer and McMaster are the top paternal bar. I already have Abraham McMaster up there somehow. I can drill down to figure that out. That match is on Chromosome 12 with someone named Warwick.

Unfortunately, I don’t remember who Warwick is right now. Perhaps it will come to me later.

Note on the key above, I don’t have anything for William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. That is one reason why my match with BV is so important. The top of the colored image above shows I am 38% painted. When I chose just the Paternal DNA, I see that I am 49% painted.

When I go to paint the DNA onto my map above, I get this message:

I can ignore the Maternal side as this is a paternal match. This says that there is overlap with Frazer/McMaster 1838 and Abraham McMaster 1764. The first note makes more sense as the McMaster in the Frazer McMaster 1838 was Fanny McMaster she was the sister of BV’s ancestor Marianne McMaster. The Abraham McMaster is more mysterious as I have that Fanny McMaster husband was James McMaster and that his father was Abraham McMaster. I’ll have to look more into that later.

Here is the Paternal side of my Chromosome Map with BV’s match in purple painted in:

Here is Chromosome 12 expanded:

Maury is on my Hartley side. Then I see how BV overlaps with matches with my 2nd cousin once removed Paul and Warwick. The light blue matches are other Frazer matches. The issue with my three matches with Paul, Warwick and BV is that they imply that there could be triangulation. That means that if Paul also matches Warwick and BV matches Warwick and BV matches Paul, that would also imply that they have the same common ancestor.


I blog about all my the DNA and checked there. Turns out Warwick tested at MyHeritage. I mention Warwick in this Blog. Here is how my tree and Warwick’s match up:

This shows that, as I mentioned above, James McMaster Sr. who was Fanny McMaster’s husband is the son of Abraham McMaster. Fanny was the daughter of William McMaster. Some trees have William as the son of Abraham McMaster, but based on my research, I don’t think that is correct. In fact if is was correct it could imply that Fanny married her own brother.

Here is a possibility that would give a common ancestor of Archibald McMaster for Warwick, BV, Paul and myself:

Based on where these people lived, it looks like William could have been the son of a John McMaster. He may have been named for the father of Archibald McMaster who I have as John. Or the John in blue above may have descended from a brother of Archibald. Based on the above, James would have been a first cousin once removed to Fanny. My second scenario would have her as a 2nd cousin once removed to James Sr.

The other confusing part is that I don’t know who the Margery is that Abraham married. She could even be a Frazer.

The working theory is that Paul, Warwick and BV triangulate up to Archibald McMasteer born in 1730. Without drawing it all out, here is the idea of how the triangulation may work out:

BV descends from Marianne, I descend from Fanny and Warwick descends from Samuel who sailed to Australia.

BV and Her X Chromosome Matches

X Chromosome matches are interesting in that people only inherit the X Chromosome by certain paths. If you are a male or if you have a male in you ancestry those males have not inherited an X Chromosome. BV matches me on my paternal side, so I cannot have an X Chromosome match with BV. However, my three sisters, Heidi, Lori and Sharon all have X Chromosome matches with BV. In addition, Charlene has an X Chromosome match with BV:

Here is Sharon’s match with BV:

Here is Charlene’s match with BV:

Here is Sharon’s match with Charlene:

This shows that these three have triangulation. That means that they have a common ancestor and that common ancestor can only be along a certain path. That is a double narrowing down of the possibilities for the common ancestors of these three matches.

The X Path Inheritance

For Sharon, it looks like this:

The likely path is through my grandmother’s father, James A Frazer. Then through his mother Margaret McMaster. After that, one would think that it would go through Fanny McMaster and her parents where I have common ancestors with BV.

Checking BV’s X Inheritance

BV’s maternal grandmother was Elizabeth Shannon. This takes us to the same place as my tree.

Charlene’s Ancestry

My guess is that Sharon’s match with Charlene could represent an older Common ancestor. Here is Charlene’s McPartland Branch:

The apparent connection to my family is through Charlene’s brick wall ancestor Ann Frazer. I’ll also build out a tree for Charlene:

Jennie Penders is Charlene’s paternal grandmother. Here is the family in 1915:

We see that Jennie’s parents were both born in Ireland. Jennie’s mom Catherine or Katherine (Jennie) is the one that we are following:

Here is the grave marker in Lackawanna, NY to the South of Buffalo:

Getting From Buffalo to Ireland

Next, I would like to make the jump backwards to place Jane in Ireland. Just to confuse things, this passenger crew list from 16 May 1883 has a Kate and a Jennie:

Most genealogies have Jane as Katherine or Catherine Jane. Here Kate indicates she was 21 so born around 1861 or 1862.

Here is the 27 October 1860 Baptismal record that Joanna (a Frazer researcher) found in the Aghanah Catholic Parish record:

This is a record of the birth of Cath. Janam (Jane) [Mc]Partland daughter of Eugene and Ann Frazer. It appears that a Patrick Partland and a Healy were there and that the family lived in Annagh.

Here is the Parish:

Here is the updated tree:

The X Chromosome match no doubt goes through Ann Frazer.

Here is a potential birth record for Ann:

Hannah Frazer  daughter of  James and Margaret Frazer

Bapt.  Jan 05, 1823

Here I’m sticking an unknown with unknown parents. I’m not sure who this James and Margaret Frazer were. That’s the best I can do right now.

Back to BV’s Autosomal DNA Matches

BV has a good match with my 2nd cousin once removed, Paul:

This DNA also represents William McMaster and Margaret Frazer. Or technically, it represents the DNA that Marianne McMaster got from either William McMaster or Margaret Frazer [and that she shared with her sister Fanny McMaster].

I decided to paint Paul’s Frazer and McMaster DNA to see what was going on:

The hot spots are at Chromosomes 1 and 12. Here is Paul’s Chromosome 12 expanded:

Isn’t that confusing. Notice that I put the match with Joanna way back to Archibald Frazer from the late 1600’s. However, there is a closer route.

I did find a match between Joanna and BV here:

That means that Joanna, Paul and BV triangulate and they have a common ancestor.

This shows Joanna, BV and Paul triangulating up to James Archibald born around 1720. I have Charlene over on the same branch as Joanna. However, I note a Catherine McPartland. If Ann Frazer was the daughter of Catherine Knott on the James Line, she could have named her daughter for her mother. I haven’t worked out the details on that, but it would make sense on a purely naming rationale. Perhaps we could vote on this idea. The above-shown triangulation puts Joanna and BV at 5th cousins.

Here is my new idea on the Catherine Knott Branch:

A Re-evaluation of the X Chromosome Triangulation

Above, I had mentioned that the X Chromosome triangulation between my three sisters, Charlene and BV. That makes more sense with the configuration that I have above:

Under this scenario, the X Chromosome DNA shared by these three is actually from Margaret Stewart and is not Frazer or McMaster DNA. That is because, if this were the correct path, Archibald inherited no X Chromosome from his father. He only got his X Chromosome from his Stewart mother Catherine. This scenario does not prove the lineage. However, it does show that it is a possible scenario.

Summary and Conclusions

  • BV has played a pivotal role as a match in many ThruLines at Ancestry. Now her daughter has uploaded her DNA to Gedmatch Genesis, so we can take a closer look at what is going on with her DNA matches.
  • I found a match between BV, my family and Warwick from Australia that seemed confusing. One possible explanation is that it suggests a possible common ancestor with Archibald McMaster who was born about 1730.
  • I took a look at an X Chromosome match that BV had with my three sisters and with Charlene. These matches formed a triangulation. I looked at Charlene’s genealogy.
  • I painted BV’s DNA onto my chromosome map and onto my cousin Paul’s chromosome map. There was a lot going on at Chromosome 1 but even more on Chromosome 12.
  • I looked at a triangulation between Joanna, BV and Paul on Chromosome 12. This resulted in the a reassignment of the common ancestor for the matches with Joanna. I also moved re-figured BV under Michael Frazer where I feel she belongs.
  • I noted that Charlene’s McPartland Line could also go under the Michael Frazer Branch. Although this is not a proven lineage, it is a plausible one based on the name of Catherine Knott possible being passed down to Catherine Jane McPartland. Also it fits in well with the X Chromosome triangulation mentioned above.
  • While there were no major breakthroughs at this first look at BV’s DNA, it seems like her DNA matches are moving things toward a better explanation of Frazer and McMaster genealogy.
  • It may be worthwhile to paint BV’s chromosomes in the future and compare her DNA matches with others in the Frazer DNA project.





Gladys and Her ThruLines on the Archibald Frazer Line

I have been working through the ThruLines for descendants of the Frazers from County Roscommon. I recently worked on the James FrazerLine and will now work on the Archibald Line.

Gladys’ Genealogy

Here is how my family is related to Gladys:

At the top of the tree, there is Violet and James Frazer. It is believed that these were two Frazer first cousins. Violet was a daughter of Richard and James is believed to be the son of Philip Frazer. That makes Gladys my 3rd cousin, once removed. Gladys is in a good position for DNA comparisons as she is in a generation ahead of me and ahead of many others on the tree.

Richard Patterson Frazer was my 2nd great-grandfather George’s brother. George stayed in Ireland and Richard moved to New York State and then to Canada. Richard died in Manitoba in 1901. This splitting up of Frazer families was quite common due to difficult times in Ireland.

Gladys’ ThruLines

ThruLines are good in that they combine DNA matches with Ancestry Trees. Let’s start at Gladys’ grandparent level:

Gladys shows no DNA matches at this level. From the chart above, she matches Bill, but he didn’t test at AncestryDNA. He tested at FTDNA.

I go up a level and Gladys (GM) still has no DNA matches:

If Gladys had matches here, they would be at her 2nd cousin level. Again, she would have DNA matches but they tested at FTDNA.

James Frazer ThruLines

James was born around 1804 and is believed to have married his first cousin Vioet Frazer:

Gladys now has 8 DNA matches at this level. They are likely to be 3rd cousins or 3rd cousins once removed. These 8 matches represent me, my four Ancestry-tested siblings, my two children and my nephew:

Next, I put these results in a table:

My son JJ got a perfect score of 22% out of 22%. Sharon got a lower score for getting too much of a match at 72 cM. However, all the levels of matches are good.

Gladys’ 3rd Great-Grandparents: Philip and Richard

This is where things get interesting as there are multiple Frazer Lines.

Philip Frazer Born About 1776

Gladys picks up Martha on ThruLines:

Martha has a strong DNA match for a 4th cousin, once removed. I also have Martha on my own DNA family tree:

I wrote a previous Blog on Martha here. It is interesting that Martha got the DNA match with Gladys and her 3rd cousins Richard and Barry did not match Gladys by DNA. Martha and Gladys get low marks for matching too much DNA:

Note that Gladys and Martha match on four segments. That could be a sign that they match on multiple lines. In my previous Blog on Martha, I show that Gladys and Martha are related also on the Frazer/Stinson Line:

Richard Frazer Born About 1777 – Philip’s Brother

On the Richard Frazer branch, Gladys shows as a half fourth cousin, but I think she should be a full fourth cousin to Michael:

Part of the problem is that we don’t have a name for Richard’s wife.

Here Michael has a DNA match higher than Ancestry would like, but he also matches Gladys on the Archibald/Stinson line. See, Michael and Gladys match on the three segments. That is a possible sign of multiple common ancestors.

Gladys and Archibald Frazer Born About 1778

This is the line I call the Archibald/Stinson Line.

Now things are heating up. Here is Michael again as expected. That means that someone put in Michael and Gladys’ trees correctly and Ancestry interpreted those trees correctly.

I’ll start with two on the Mary Frazer Branch.

Next is the Archibald, son of Archibald Branch:

Here is a good representation. I didn’t have the son Edward Branch on my previous Frazer DNA tree. Cathy is already in the Frazer DNA Project.

The above chart shows the many matches that Gladys has with people on the Archibald Frazer/Stinson Line.

Gladys’ Match with Daniel

Because I haven’t been tracking any DNA matches on the Edward Frazer Branch above, I’ll take a look at Daniel’s Frazer tree:

Daniel’s mother and grandmother are from his own tree. His Frazer great-grandmother is from Maria’s tree and Edward is from my own tree. Ancestry has done some computer collaboration work. I’ll build a private tree to see if I can get the same thing that Ancestry did.

Here is Mary and her family in 1940. They are living on Harvest Avenue in New York:


Mary’s mom was also born in New York.

Here is the tree I am building on Daniel’s mother’s side:

Ancestry has hints for me, but I don’t want to go with the hints now. The hint is that Mildred’s mom is Mary Winnifred Frazer.

This couple got married in 1928:

Here is the marriage License:

Here is the young family in 1930:

This says that both of Mildred’s parents were born in Brooklyn, NY.

This appears to be Mildred in 1920:

According to this record, Mildred’s mother was born in England and her father in New York. All four of Mildred’s grandparents were born in Ireland based on the 1920 Census.

This looks to be the same family in 1900:

This shows Mary coming to the US in 1871, so at about age 2.

The conventional wisdom of Ancestry Trees has Mary in Brooklyn, NY in 1880:

This shows that Edward and Winifred were born in Ireland. The children down to Mary were born in England and Edward Jr. was born in New York. This looks to be the same family five years earlier in 1875:

It appears that Winifred also went by Anne. I believe I see the children in Lancashire:

The father as Fred seems to be an error.

This shows the Link between New York and Lancashire. But how do I get back to Ireland?

This record implies that the couple wed in the first quarter of 1861:

Here is the married couple in 1861 in a place called Church, Lancashire:

I would say that this record gives the best birth years for Edward Frazer and Winifred Russell.

I just saw another hint in the 1861 Church, Lancashire Census:

Here is Edward’s older brother Alexander born about 1836. This is a critical record. From here, Edward moves with his family to New York. Alexander moves back to Ireland and marries there. Then some of Alexander’s children emigrate to the US.

That means that if I have made all my connections properly, then this tree may be off:

I am thinking that Alexander shown above was really born closer to 1836 and Edward shown above was really born closer to 1840.

An Updated Tree with Edward Frazer Born About 1840

I just need to update Alexander’s birth year.

Some Alexander Frazer Genealogy

I show Cathy descending from Alexander. He was probably the same Alexander Frazer who was in Lancashire in 1861 with his younger brother Edward Frazer and his new wife Winifred. Cathy has this about Alexander on her tree:

This shows Alexander’s parents, spouse and 12 children. Cathy’s grandmother is Anna Katherine aka Jane Kate Frazer. Here is Alexander in 1901 with his family:

Based on this Census, he would have been born about 1839 or 1840. That is closer to the 1836 birth that I had based on his stay in Lancashire.


Alexander was a farmer in Carrowncully, Roscommon:


That brings us down to Cathy’s grandmother. This photo is saved to Cathy’s tree:

Cathy shows that her grandmother traveled from Carrowncully to New York City in 1906 accompanied by her older brother Charles:

This photo is also attached to Cathy’s tree showing Charles and his father Alexander:

Brenda’s Link to Alexander Frazer Born 1836

Brenda descends from Thomas who was one of Annie’s many siblings. I didn’t mention above that Annie married and was living in Westport, CT by the 1910 Census:

Annie’s brother Charles was also living in Westport in 1910:

In fact, Charles was living in the same house with Annie.

But I’m looking for Thomas. Thomas was in Westport 10 years earlier:

Lilian is Brenda’s great-grandmother. It looks like Annie and Charles may have followed their older brother Thomas John to Westport, CT.

Based on ThruLines, I have added Brenda to Cathy’s orange Alexander Frazer Branch:

Alan of the Frazers of Australia

The purple boxes above represent the Frazer Family in Australia. Alan represents a new branch:

This is where the ThruLines appear to work well. I can’t tell who Alan’s mother is. She is probably still alive or at least shown that way on Alan’s tree. Because of that, I can’t see any information about her. However, Ancestry must know enough about her to link her as the daughter of John William Bernard Foxwell. The proper way for me to check this is to build a tree for Alan and see if it agrees with Ancestry. I think it will.

Here is my quick and dirty tree for Alan:

It got me back to John Parker Frazer who is the Frazer who moved to Australia. Here is his birth record in Kilmactranny Parish, County Sligo, Ireland:

John Parker Frazer  son of Archibald and Catherine Frazer
Born  Jun 28, 1827                                                    
Bapt.  Jul 03, 1827

Also I see that Beatrice’s middle name above is Honora. This is likely from her grandmother Honora White. I checked Jane who is in the Frazer DNA Project and she has a good match to Alan. That means I can add Alan to the purple Frazer Branch from Australia through Robert Alexander Frazer. I have that Robert was born in Richmond outside of Melbourne:

The Frazer Nation keeps expanding.

Moving Gladys Up the Frazer Tree to Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly

As a result of cousin marriages, Gladys shows Archibald Frazer and Mary Lilly as her ancestors three times:

This both simplifies things and complicates them at the same time.

Here are Gladys’ ThruLines at this level:

I have covered Philip and Archibald. Gladys also descends from Richard, but I don’t see him here. Let’s look at John.

John Frazer – Born About 1775

Here is TF who sounds familiar and Blair who doesn’t sound familiar. Both of these matches are beyond the 5th cousin level so pretty far out. TF has a private tree and Blair’s tree is public. If the configuration is right, TG and Blair would be 3rd cousins to each other.

The John Frazer Branch doesn’t get much attention, so these matches are interesting.

TFs Tree

I see that TF also matches my sister Heidi – perhaps others of my siblings also. Here is some old research done on the John and Phlip Frazer Branches:

From what I can tell, this shows that John had William, Stewart, Archibald and John. Out of those it looks like William and John went to the USA. If I have this right, it looks like TF follows down from Archibald to John James.

Here is TF’s tree starting with her grandfather Guernsey Preston Frazer:

He was born in Niagara County, New York and died in San Bruno near San Francisco:

Washington Abraham Frazer Born About 1864

Washington married on January 7, 1891 in Ontario even though he and his bride lived in the US:


Here is Washington in 1870 in Lockport, NY:

Here is Lockport:

John Frazer Born About 1824 Ireland

Here is the 1865 Lockport Census:

John Frazer was running a hotel in Lockport in 1860:

This Census has John J born in Canada about 1849. This Census also gives a more exact date for the birth of Washington Frazer.

Here is John Frazer and his wife’s grave stone:

Here is the family in 1855:

If the family was in Canada in 1849 and in Niagara County in in 1851, they may have missed the Canadian and US Census.

I have already looked at Marilee who is in the Frazer DNA Project. I put her here on my Frazer DNA chart:

I have that John Frazer was married to Sarah Orr based on the grave stone, but I have seen another marriage record for John Frazer – though possibly a different John. I could probably clear that up by going through all of Sarah’s children’s records to try to find a maiden name for Sarah.

Here is Marilee with TF who I have a third cousins:

Connecting John Frazer to Ireland

I have this record for John James Frazer:

18 Feb 1821  bpt.      John James s. of Archibald and                                                                            Jane (WHITE)           Ardcarne        RI                    ArdC               Address: Aghrafinigan

My guess is that this could be the same person as the John Frazer who lived in Lockport, NY. From John’s grave marker his birth is said to be 14 Feb 1824. My guess is that John may have been born 14 Feb 1821 and baptized four days later. Most of the Census records indicate that John was born around 1824. However, I few indicate that he could have been born earlier. For example, in the 1865 New York Census, John is listed as being 46 which would put his birth at 1819 or 1820.

Blair’s Connection to John Frazer

Again, I’ll build my own tree for Blair. This is what Blair’s tree shows:

Here is the 1881 Ontario Census for Anna Marie Frazer:

If these ages are right, then it would appear there were no parents in the house at the time of the Census. Here is Essa where the family lived in 1881.

The sister of one of my McMaster ancestors lived in nearby Tecumseth for a while. I don’t know if this was a coincidence or not.

Here is Annie’s marriage record from 1898:

The couple married in Cookstown where the red marker is below.

The bride and groom were from Bradford and witness George Frazer was from Bond Head.

Here is the family in 1871 in Gwillimbury West, Ontario. The father William is a farm laborer:


Gwillimbury was already shown right below Bradford above in the previous map image.

Tieing William Frazer Into the Irish Frazers

William’s birth appears to be well documented:

14 Jul 1828   b.         William s. of Archibald and Jane (WHITE)           Kilmactranny PR KlmC (MFA)

21 Jul 1828   bpt.      William s. of Archibald and Jane (WHITE)           Ardcarne        RI                    ArdC

I have the same information:

William Frazer  son of  Archibald and Jane Frazer
Born  Jul 14, 1828
Bapt.  Jul 22, 1828

I don’t know if the White above was in the records or someone’s interpretation.

I also found a marriage record for William Frazer:

Here Tecumseth comes into play again. This place was renamed New Tecumseth on the map I showed above.

Here is an interesting photo of William Frazer someone posted at Ancestry:

Tripling the Size of the DNA John Frazer Tree


I believe that this tree ties in fairly well by DNA and genealogy. By the way, Marilee tested her DNA at MyHeritage, so would not appear at AncestryDNA. To show their matches with Marilee, TF and Blair would have to upload to Gedmatch or MyHeritage.

Taking Gladys Back to 1690

Here is the final step:

People should be skeptical of these ThruLines that are at a distant level. That means that they should be checked out for accuracy. In the past, I have noted possible additional connections that may by-pass the route all the way up to Archibald from 1690. The fact that these matches are both on the Michael Frazer line may be significant. Also Margaret Frazer and three of her daughters lived in the area of Tecumseth that I mentioned. I match BV at quite a significant level; however, the match probably represents the McMaster side. Perhaps there are other McMaster, Frazer or other connections that I am missing.

Gladys’ Chart of ThruLine Matches

I have Gladys’ Thrulines into 3C, 4C, 5C and 6C. James and Violet Frazer are from Philip and Richard below. The Archibald Frazer 1778 matches are not in the Philip or Richard Frazer groups. Gladys’ matches with TF and Blair seem to be valid matches tracing back to John Frazer born 1775.

Gladys has a good representation of Frazer matches. She also matches two people on the Branch of James Frazer’s son Michael. From other DNA match analysis, my sense is that the common ancestor of Archibald Frazer born about 1690 could be too far removed and that there could be a better choice for common ancestor. However, the common ancestor of Archibald Frazer from 1690 is not rulted out either.

Summary and Conclusions

  • It took a while to go through Gladys’ ThruLines, because I checked on the genealogy of some of her matches.
  • I found a new important record for brothers Edward and Alexander Frazer who were living in Lancashire in 1861.
  • I was able to link these families back to the Frazers of North Roscommon, Ireland.
  • I was able to add two more Branches to the John Frazer Born 1775 Line to my combined DNA match/Frazer genealogy chart.
  • I looked at Gladys’ match with two descendants from the Michael Frazer Line. I was familiar with the connection and have made suggestions in the past haveing to do with the McPartland Family.


Cousin Rusty’s YDNA – MacFarlane or James?

I recently had an email from my Cousin Rusty. He had received an email from some from a member of a James surname project telling him that he belonged to the James family originating in Wales. I’m sure that was a surprise as Rusty was thinking that due to an Irish adoption and YDNA testing that he was actually a MacFarlane. So which is it?

A Look at Rusty’s Past YDNA Analysis

I had taken a look at Rusty’s YDNA in this Blog in April 2017. That was two years ago. Could things have changed that much in two years? At that time, Rusty had done the 37 STR test and had just upgraded to the 67 STR test.

SNPs and STRs

I had estimated, based on STRs, that Rusty was in the DF63 SNP category. SNPs are important because they define what branch we are on the SNP tree. I further noted that further down on the three was a SNP called BY674:

Under that SNP almost all the people who had taken the Big Y test were either MacFarlanes or MacFarlands. Under BY674 were 13 branches of variations of MacFarlanes. That means that if Rusty tested for these SNPs, he would have a good idea of which branch of MacFarlanes he was from. Of course, this is doing it a bit backwards. It is assuming that Rusty is a MacFarlane first. Technically, it would have been better to do the SNP testing first and then determine that Rusty was a MacFarlane.

A month after my Blog, I got an email from Rusty saying he tested for DF63 and was found to be postive for that.

Rusty’s YDNA 2019

That brings us up to present. Now Rusty is:

That confirms Rusty into the MacFarlane group from the Big Tree above.

The Current Big Tree

Guess what? The Big Tree didn’t get any smaller in the past two years. I take the Big Tree to be pretty authoritative as it is based on the Big Y or equivalent test. This is about the ultimate in YDNA testing and is quite accurate. Here is the entire branching beneath R-BY674:

Previously, there were 13 branches under BY674. Now there are 20. Almost every branch has a MacFarlane or MacFarland. I don’t see any James surnames. Actually there are seven major groups under BY674 and then some additional branching under those 7 groups. The last three people on the right descend directly from BY674 with no sub-groups. I don’t see any James surnames. That means that they don’t belong in this group or none of the James that match Rusty have done the Big Y test.

The flags by the tested people’s names are meant to show where their earliest traceable ancestors of the YDNA-tested people came from. I count 14 Flags from Scotland and 7 from Northern Ireland. Rusty’s known Irish ancestors were from Northern Ireland.

The Lennox Cluster

I had alluded to the Lennox Cluster in my previous Blog on Rusty’s YDNA. Here it is at the Big Tree shown in green:

BY674 takes up about 2/3 of this Lennox Cluster.

Here are the ancient arms of Lennox:

Here is what the FTDNA Lennox, MacFarlane, Leckie – cadet clans of Lennox Page says:

Cadets Lineage.  [Scions of the mormaers/earls of Lennox if not also of their branch the Macfarlane clan chiefs.]  This is our project’s largest lineage (including its sub-lineages) consisting of over one hundred eighty men, several of whom can trace their respective descents from the earls of Lennox via the Macfarlane chiefs through one or another of their cadets.  In a Scottish clan yDNA project the largest lineage found should always be that of the chiefs and their cadets and thus it is in our case even though the House of Lennox consists of three extant clans (Lennox, Macfarlane, & Leckie) rather than just one.  As the Macfarlane chiefs descended from a younger son of the second earl of Lennox those men in this lineage who have agreed to show their cadet house on the yDNA test results page start with “Lennox” for the earls, then “Arrochar” for the chiefs, and then whichever cadets and/or sub-cadets they may belong to such as “Gartartan.”  To appear in this lineage on said page a man must have done some level of yDNA STR testing (12, 25, 37, 67, 111 markers or the Big Y which now includes over 700 markers).  Once his markers (however many) are displayed on our project’s yDNA test results page further applicable testing will be recommended in the most beneficial order: the Big Y; the R1b-DF63 SNP Pack; a single SNP test; upgrading STR markers; and finally the Family Finder.  It has been found that SNP F489 was carried by the Lennox dynasty, and hence the Macfarlane chiefs, therefore every member of this lineage should SNP test for F489 as soon as possible (unless they have already taken the R1b-DF63 SNP Pack or the Big Y).  Furthermore it has been found that SNP BY674 was carried by the Macfarlane chiefs, therefore all the Macfarlane surnamed men of this lineage should SNP test for BY674 as soon as possible (unless they have already taken the R1b-DF63 SNP Pack or the Big Y).  The men who have only tested their yDNA STR markers need to at least take a SNP test as mentioned above or take the R1b-DF63 SNP Pack to confirm that they belong in this lineage.  It is important that as many of these men as possible take the Big Y Next Generation Sequencing SNP test, as this will reveal more details about the ancestry of the mormaers/earls of Lennox and how the various branches descended from them.  Please note that the Big Ycan be ordered without already having taken any previous STR testing but the price is higher to do so. Once they have finished testing their yDNA, as above, they should consider testing their autosomal block DNA via the Family Finder so that we can more accurately define the relationships within this lineage (i.e. branching within the last several generations possibly beyond the reach of the Big Y).  As several of the men of this lineage can trace their respective descents from the Macfarlane chiefs and the earls of Lennox, and all the participants’ yDNA STR test results are very close, it follows that all the men of this lineage must descend from the chiefs and/or their ancestors the mormaers/earls.  [NOTE: Those listed in this lineage who do not bear a variant of the Macfarlane (or Lennox) surname may have come off the line of our chiefs (or the mormaers/earls) before surnames became fixed or from fosterage, adoption, or an extra-marital event.]  And given this descent from the chiefs and/or earls it is critical to House of Lennox and Macfarlane research that all the members of this lineage test as much of their individual yDNA (STRs and SNPs) and autosomal block DNA as they can afford over time.  Once they have completed their own testing we hope that they will consider contributing to our project’s General Fund to help fellow lineage-mates upgrade their testing.  To help find lost cadets, they should set their “Personal” page “User Preferences” to compare their test kit results against the lab’s entire database rather than limit it just to our project’s database.

There is a lot of information above and instructions. I have highlighted the part about the BY674. Basically, Rusty descends from a famous line of very well-documented people with ancient roots in Scotland. Here is where the Lennox Clan was from and ruled in Scotland:

The County is callled Dumbartonshire.

DF63 SNP Pack

I see that Rusty has taken the DF63 SNP Pack. That is the test that got him down to BY674. However, that test also eliminated various SNP beneath BY674:

The red are SNPs that Rusty tested negative for. The blue are SNPs that haven’t been tested. They weren’t in the SNP pack or are new since Rusty took the test. It looks like there are 7 major branches. Rusty was negative for three branches. He didn’t test three branches. One branch he tested for a sub-branch, (A7799) so may not be positive for the main branch (A7798).

Combining the Big Tree and the DF63 SNP Pack

The Big Tree is big as the name implies, so I’ll split it in half for the BY674 Branch:

I crossed out the parts that Rusty tested negative for and put a green box around what he hasn’t tested for. That narrows down his options.

Here is the next section of BY674:

Here I made a judgement call. The first X is over three SNPs in the top box. Rusty tested negative for Z73:

These three SNPs are in what is called a block. If Rusty had taken the Big Y test, it is possible that he could have broken up this block, but not likely, so my guess was that he would have tested negative for A7798. Rusty is possibly in the last three green squares (as well as possibly being in the previous three green squares. The last square is not obvious. Rusty would be in that box if he were BY674 and tested negative for all the branches.

Taking Rusty Further Down the Tree to BY38907 and BY 38908

Rusty’s closets STR matches are here:

Rusty has a 4 GD match with McFarland who has a Terminal SNP of BY3907. This McFarland has also taken the Big Y test. This could be McFarland in the Big Tree:

Here the Big Tree has McFarland as BY38908, but that is equivalent with three other SNPs including BY38907. It could be that if Rusty were to take the Big Y test, then there would be more branching under BY38908. McKinnon in the same group may be Rusty’s third STR match above. Rusty’s fourt match is McAfee I see a McAfee under BY7779, but Rusty already tested negative for BY7779. My best guess is that Rusty belongs in the box with McKinnon and McFarland.

I note that the third match on Rusty’s STR list is McFarlin who is BY7777. This is in the first group under the Big Tree above and I had eliminated it due to Rusty’s SNP Pack results.

What About the James Line?

I found the James YDNA Project. The man who wants to claim Rusty is in this group:

Two people in this group have tested positive for BY71106. The second person listed with green results is in the Big Tree:

Compare that to the general area of the MacFarlane Group:

Here is the Big Tree page for DF63:

The top unnamed light block is DF63. Five blocks down from there we reach BY674 where Rusty is. If I am reading this correctly, Rusty and the James Family share the L21 SNP.  L21 has been around since about 2500 BC, so the connection between Rusty and the James family could go back pretty far.

This chart shows the two main branches of L21. DF63 is on the top right. All other branches are everything not in the green box. That means that these two branches probably separated a long time ago.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Rusty is part of the BY674 SNP Group. This group is very specific to a Cadet Line of the Lennox Clan and is very well defined. That Cadet Line is MacFarlane with some  name varations.
  • This BY674 SNP group is now up to 20 sub-groups. Rusty has been eliminated from about 14 of these groups by YDNA testing. That leaves 6 groups he may be in.
  • Rusty’s matching to the James family by STRs is coincidental. Any match to this group could go back 4,000 years or more based on SNPs. Whenever there is a discrepancy between STRs and SNPs, the SNPs are most accurate.



A Look at Kathy’s Frazer ThruLines

In this Blog, I’d like to look at Kathy’s ThruLines. Kathy is in the Frazer DNA project. Actually I’ll be looking at her mom’s and her Aunt’s ThruLines. Here is a combined DNA/genealogy tree:

Kathy is in the 4th row. Kathy is in the James Line of the Frazer Project. James is one level above that which is shown above.

Kathy’s Mom Charlotte

Here is Charlotte’s ThruLine based on her great-grandfather Edward Wynn Frazer:

Charlotte has four DNA matches shown below her mother, but those matches would be with close relatives such as daughter, niece, nephew and sister. It would have been nice if there were a first cousin match – someone descending from Minnie Frazer. That way we could walk the DNA matches up. Sort of like a chain of evidence.

Edward Wynn Frazer

On the Edward Wynn Frazer, Charlotte matches WG:

Charlotte has a match with WG, but not a great one. I’ll start a table for Charlotte:

The <1% is not very good. According to AncestryDNA 2nd cousins once removed share 19 cM less than one percent of the time.  This is likely a red flag issue. In my Blog for Joanna, she also had a <1% match with a 2nd cousin once removed. This would make me want to check WG’s tree. However, his mother is private. I would have to check the tree starting at WG’s maternal grandfather who is listed as William Archibald Frazer. Here is William A in Poughkeepsie in 1910 at age 5:

Here is Poughkeepsie:

I’ll assume that WG has his grandfather correct in his tree. In 1920, William’s father decided that his parents were really born in Scotland and England:

A clue is that the oldest daughter is Mena, transcribed as Ismerie in the 1920 Census.

On to Edward Frazer Born About 1870

This looks to be Edward’s grave stone:

A child Phibbs may be another hint. Here is some more information from Find A Grave:

A father is missing for Edward and his son William A Frazer is missing for some reason.

Here is Edward in 1900:

He is naturalized, arrived in 1886, and married in 1897. Here we have a differnet rendition of their first daughter Ismena. This matches with the Ismena Jane White Frazer from Find A Grave.

Here is a possible birth record for Edward:

Many trees for Edward have him born in County Leitrim, Ireland including Kathy’s Tree. Here is another record for Edward in Ballina:

Here is Edward’s marriage record from St. Paul’s in Poughkeepsie:

Here are the parents:

Unfortunately, Edward was transcribed as a Frager in the Ancestry records.

It seems like all roads lead to Edward and Ismena Frazer. Here is Kathy’s tree for Charlotte’s mother:


A Quick Look at Minnie (Mary) Frazer Born 1865

The goal here is to match up Minnie with Edward. Here is Minnie in 1900 in Stonington, CT:

According to this record, Minnie was born in Ireland in November 1865. She came to the us in 1888. She married about 1895 and had two children in Rhode Island. Then they moved to Stonington, CT. Stonington is just over the line from Rhode Island:

On the next page of the Census we see that Minnie’s mother Emma J. Frazier was also living with them. She was born February 1838 and came to the US in 1893. She had six children and five were still living. It looks like she had been married for 37 years. The census says her husband was still alive. That means that Emma married in 1863 if I’m reading the Census correctly.

That means that this record is a good match:

Emma  or Ismena J Frazer Born February 1838

Here is Ismenia J Frazer in 1910 in Stonington, CT living with Minnie:

Here is a 1915 NY Census for 202 South Ave, Poughkeepsie:

Here is an Ismenia Frazer who is staying with the Cline family in Poughkeepsie. She is from Ireland and has been in the US since 1889. Perhaps this is the connection? At 75, she would have been born in 1840. The problem is that I don’t recognize the other people in the house. If she is living in Poughkeepsie, why wasn’t she staying with her son Edward A Frazer?

Edward Frazer was living at Linwood Ave, Poughkeepsie in 1920:

That is very close to 202 South Avenue. This shows to me a connection between Edward’s family of Poughkeepsie, NY and Minnie’s family of Stonington, CT. It doesn’t prove that Ismenia was the parents of Both Edward and Minnie, but it suggests that she was.

Bringing Charlotte Up the Frazer Tree to Archibald Born 1792

Quite quickly, Charlotte is back to the 1700’s with her 2nd great grandfather Archibald Frazer:

With Charlotte’s connection to Edward Wynne Frazer through her cousin WG, the DNA looked sketchy. There was less than 1% chance that the DNA match could be accurate. However, going up one level, Charlotte has many more matches to descendants of Edward Wynne Frazer’s two brothers William Fitzgerald and Thomas Henry.

Charlotte and the William Fitzgerald Branch

William Fitzgerald was the older brother, so we’ll start with him:

I was just looking at a grave marker for William Fitzgerald:

This William was a busy man and made his way from Ireland to Sacramento, CA. Here are the DNA results on the Whitten Branch:

I would be interested to see how WG matches MP and Pamela, but I don’t have access to those results. Somehow, the DNA perked back up in a further out generation.

Charlotte and the Thomas Henry Branch

I like how this branch has DNA matches on three different sons of Thomas Henry Frazer. I get confused sometimes because as I understand it, William Sarsfield was originally William Fitzgerald and he decided to change his name. I’m getting lazy now and not checking the genealogy.

Here is the summary I have:

I’ll add these matches to my Chart:

The orange-colored matches are in Ancestry but haven’t uploaded their DNA results to Gedmatch for comparison. The green line is a family that I’m not quite sure where they belong on the chart. In my DNA chart, Gail has the highest match to Charlotte by far. In fact, the top 40% mentioned would have her at 2nd cousin once removed. That means she matches more than is likely rather than less.

Up One Level to Archibald Frazer Born 1751

Charlotte has only one match here, but it is on an interesting Branch. That is the Edward Frazer Branch. I have to be careful, as I think I accepted the wrong genealogy last time. On Joanna’s matching branch there was a line with an Edward Wynn Frazer who died as a bachelor. Obviously, if you have an ancestor with no children, you have a problem. However, I didn’t see Edward Wynn Frazer in this tree:

This tree is stitched together, but I am assuming that it is correct. It appears that the Private 3rd cousin 1x removed was our famous Frazer cousin Maureen O’Sullivan:

That gives another person on Prudence’s lonely line on the right below:

This match that Charlotte has with Brittney is also a little larger than expected. AncestryDNA uses a cutoff of 20 cM for a fourth cousin and Britney is a fourth cousin, once removed to Charlotte.

Next Level: To the Top of the James Line

This next level will bring Charlotte over to the Michael Frazer Line. He was the brother of the Archibald we just looked at.

Charlotte has 3 matches on the Michael Frazer Line and 14 on the Archibald Line. If it were the other way around, we might wonder if Charlotte really belonged in the Michael Line. However, having said that, there are about three times as many DNA-tested descendants on the Archibald side compared to the Michael side.

Here are Charlotte’s three matches:

It is sort of like two matches because two matches are parent and child.

Charlotte gets her first perfect scores with BV and Bonnie with a 33 out of 33%. A few notes:

  • Charlotte matches Cheryl at a slightly level than her mother BV. This happens sometimes and is normal.
  • Charlotte only gets a score of 5% for her match with SH but gets a 32% with her sibling Gail. I will assume that these two are full siblings. This shows the variation that is possible in DNA.
  • We can’t say that Charlotte is not a 2nd cousin once removed to WG at 19 cM. There are reported values of 0-316 cM and a typical value is 123cM. However, the relationship comes under more scrutiny at this level.
  • Overall, I would say that Charlotte’s matches make sense. It looks like once you get to the 5th cousin level, if you have any sort of a match under 20 cM, Ancestry says that it is pretty good.

Kathy’s Aunt Madeline

Next we’ll look at Kathy’s mother’s sister Madeline to see how the numbers compare. As Madeline is a sister of Charlotte, I would expect many of the same results. Like Charlotte, Madeline has no ThruLines for her grandmother Minnie Frazer and one for her great-grandfather Edward Wynn Frazer. However, the match is smaller than Charlotte had:

I also added in Madeline’s other matches while I was at it.

I’m beginning to see how AncestryDNA does it’s top percentages. Gail, with a 97 cM gets a top match percentage of 40. As I recall, that top 40% was if Charlotte and Gail were 2nd cousins once removed. That means with a larger match there is more certainty. When Ancestry’s top percentage is at 27%, the match levels are just above 20 cM. Ancestry uses 20 cM as the threshold for a 4th cousin. However, the results just above 20 are somewhat ambiguous. Below the 20%, Ancesty is more sure that the results will be in the 5th cousin range, so the top percentage goes up a bit to 33%.

Here is the same chart sorted by relationship:

  • The problem match is at the top. It would be good to have more 2nd cousin matches to compare.
  • There are not many 4th cousin matches, but that is a result of the genealogy. It appears that there aren’t as many people in that Edward Frazer Line – at least not many that have had their DNA tested.
  • In general the likelihood of the matches representing the relationship go from low to high as the relationships get further out. The one exception is Charlotte’s match with Gail. I take that to be unusual based on the other matches and with Gail’s match with Charlotte’s sister Madeline.

Summary and Conclusions

  • Like Joanna’s Thrulines, Kathy’s mom and Aunt had a match with a 2nd cousin once removed that had a very low probability of <1%.
  • I took a quick look at some of the genealogy between Kathy’s descent from Edward Wynne Frazer and her low probability match’s descent from Edward Wynne Frazer. I found a connection between them and the wife of Edward Wynne Frazer who was Ismenia or Ismena [Jane?] Whtie Frazer. She appears to visit her daughter on Kathy’s side in Stonington, CT and her son on the DNA match’s side in Poughkeepsie, NY.
  • Kathy’s mom and Aunt had a lot of DNA matches in the 3rd cousin range.
  • Kathy’s mom and Aunt had an interesting match with a granddaughter of Maureen O’Sullivan at the 4th cousin level
  • I am still gaining experience with the ThruLines. I have noted a general rise in probability of matching from the 3rd to 5th cousin levels. At least in these James Frazer Lines so far.
  • I expanded my James Frazer DNA Chart to include those matches on ThruLines. This fills in a lot of the blanks.